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England exited the U21 Euros last night

they were abject. naive defending, half arsed midfield and tactically about as advanced as some U12s teams i saw last year

Don't worry though, gareth southgate was described las tyear by sir trevor brooking as "the future"

they also left sterling, barkley, wilshere, oxlade-c and shaw...all eligible...at home for this tournament

anyway...the article..

"Do supporters want England to be successful? Are they bothered?"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33265323


are you bothered if the national team, or even the u21s do well?

is it of any importance to you at all compared to your club loyalties?

Not bothered if the U21s do well.

Had trouble supporting England senoir team in the past when nearly all of the players play for club teams i hate on a daily basis as it seemed too hypocritical (Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool etc.) but I do end up getting behind them in big knockout games in the Euros/World Cup. Not bothered about friendlies/qualifiers.

Absolutely no importance in comparison to club loyalty.

Yes, it's important.

Setting aside club rivalries and getting behind the national team adds a sense of perspective to our support at other levels. I'm pleased to see England Squad players doing well for Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham, Villa etc. Chelsea not so much in the past because that meant being supportive of Terry and Cole.

On a separate and personal level, England was THE team for Dad. From 1966 to 1977 or thereabouts we were at Wembley for every England game bar the Scotland matches where tickets were much harder to get. Standing area G68, behind the goal, just off centre, at the opposite end from the tunnel.
We were there the night SuperMac scored all five vs Cyprus, and the night that Tomasevski kept us at bay and dumped us out of the World Cup.
I replayed some of those visits later in life when I took Dad to the opening game at the new stadium and managed to get seats with the exact same view. The bonus that day was that the bar area you use for those seats is the 1968 Bar. Getting tickets at Old Trafford for the last game of qualifying for 2010 when we laid the Poland ghosts was special too. Utterly fortuitously we were seated just off to the side, behind the goal, opposite the tunnel that night too  :)

It must have some significance for you, you managed to refer to the red shirted team from Manchester without referring to animal waste  :D

When I'm watching a world cup it makes no difference to me whether england are playing or not.  I don't like the England brand.  I don't like most of the England players.  I don't like the England supporters.  I think the FA are incompetent.  I'm quite happy for Watford to field zero english players if they could get away with it.

So I guess that puts me in the "don't care" camp!

World Cup 2010 was the final nail in the coffin for me. I don't think I had missed a competitive match since before Italia 90, always felt a tingle of excitement whenever I'd watch a game, loved it. Then after that shit show, I couldn't be bothered anymore. When we went out to Italy in Euro 2012 I just went 'meh' and left the pub and didn't even care, same deal with the last world cup.

I just don't think the players are incentivised or understand what it means to put on the England shirt. They get paid so much, being asked to work in their summer holiday seems like an inconvenience. These days I think all the young lads grow up wishing they could play for Real Madrid than wishing they could play for England.

The Olympics also opened my eyes to the joy of other sport.

Pretty much this. Except I don't care about England in the finals either.

The World Cup/Euros are only good  because they give decent betting opportunities.

England internationals ruin the flow of the football season, with weekends off every 4 weeks or so. So boring.

Pretty much this too.

When the Euros were in England, the players really seemed to care and feel pride about represeting their country. Pearce, Gazza, Adams, Shearer and Sheringham.

Look at this:

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWBR_W1gKDw

Could you see Rooney, Sterling, Cahill and Delph showing this pride?

Pretty sure this is nonsense

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33265323

Don't the kids in La Liga, Bundsaliga, Serie A earn 25k per week too?

Is it more British lad culture too blame? Do you get stories of young Real Madrid players getting pissed up in clubs at 2am? Or sex tapes of Bayern players leaked to the press?

Or maybe it's the pressure young players are under here. Media spotlight shining on them from a ridiculously young age. In many ways I feel sorry for Raheem Sterling. He's still a kid, but he's been srutinised and vilified by the press and supporters.

I almost cited Stuart Pierce singing the National Anthem in Euro 96 as my evidence of the pride of wearing the shirt, which is no longer there. I think maybe it completely died when Beckham left the squad.

Oh go on then, I have to.....

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0OCRrvMBpA

Lawrenson seems to be talking guff from start to finish. 

England were without the likes of winger Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, forward Raheem Sterling, midfielder Ross Barkley and defender Luke Shaw.
"They would win it with the top players by miles. They seriously would. Those players in midfield or up front would have won this competition very, very easily."

With regard  to the wages - someone like Chalobah who has achieved nothing since playing for Watford 3 years back is on 30k a week.   Are the Bayern/Real youngsters who haven't broken through on those wages?

The problem is matching expectations and abilities, England are not very good at football and the fans and media don't see it.

I'm bothered, I wish the players were more bothered.

Deservedly so. You want to knock women about then you deserve everything you get.

I'm hugely excited when England play a big game.
Very much as excited as when my team plays an important game, maybe even more so.
Some great nights watching the key matches of '90, '96 and '98.

Like to see U21's / England Women being successful, but not too bothered.

I love supporting England and try to watch all the games. I know we'll never win anything in my lifetime as we don't seem to have a winning mentality, no matter how good we are player-for-player. We've had some great squads, but teams who are 'worse' and play together and to a good plan always go further.

As a Cricket fan, I am delighted when my county produces England players. Even though it is to the detriment of my team, I agree that the whole setup of the club game is to feed players into the international game to beat other countries. As oppose to football where clubs do everything to keep their players away from international duty. There's just too much money in football so you see players retiring from the international game to prolong the lucrative club career, which is such a shame. How much £ does one person need ffs?

A successful country on the international game is a source of pride for the nation IMO, but with representing England added pressure does come. I think players do want to play for England and do care, or they'd just all make themselves not available for England selection/retire from internationals, surely? They get so much sh!t thrown at them on a daily basis from idiot rival fans, why would they care of a little more on top? They probably wouldn't get anywhere near as much grief as the racist/criminal/immoral ones do.

Ha McMamanaman looks like he couldn't give a toss, Anderton and a fair few others not exactly belting it out and Neville making a political statement by not singing.

I love to watch England play and was a bit annoyed we folded meekly in the under 21s.  Just think we expect too much these days, and think we have a good generation coming through.  I also think the current squad is fine, no team performs superbly every time they play. I know it is only qualifying, but our record stands up well against most currently.  Variance will obviously do us in the finals.  

Seems odd to talk about young kids going off the rails these days, and then seeing Gazza as an example of better days.  I have never read his book, but assume Adams was boozing a lot in his playing days?  

As a Bradford City supporter, I guess I have lower expectations than most.   I know we are supposed to hate other teams, but life seems too short. Dirty Leeds tho.

Never really liked the England Rugby Union team though. 

Pretty good post.

Maybe it's just variance we have't wn anything since 1966.

I mean really, 3 penalty shoot outs (which are pretty much the definition of random) go England's way instead of the oppostions and we might well have and extra WC trophy and a couple of Euro trophies in the FA's museum.

And maybe it's just variance we haven't had a decent team since 1996.

In 96 everything clicked and we had 3 or 4 world class players in the team and in form at the same time.

While we've had good players since then, can anyone compare them favourably to Gazza, Shearer, Adams and Seaman?

It's very confusing.

England does mean a lot to me
But not as much as Liverpool
I'm english and follow football with a passion
I have no connections with Liverpool at all, yet I care more about them than i do for England.  Given the choice club vs country argument etc, club 100% of the time.  But then, that makes sense, as so much more emotion has been committed to this club, day in day out.  England doesn't matter, isn't the focus of the week, and only begins to matter when a game approaches

Yet when Liverpool win it is just me celebrating amongst friends and family.  The banter is great etc, but when it is England, all friends and family are together, which makes a great atmosphere and when England win, its so much better to celebrate with friends and the like, yet it doesn't matter as much.

When I watch England I want Liverpool players to do the best, not get injured etc.  I clearly remember Italy '90, praying Beardsley wouldn't miss, as I didn't want the flack....not cause England would miss a huge penalty, but because he played for Liverpool.

 I'd argued with my brother (on our radio show 7pm Fridays- see " It could kick off" thread for details! ) that England fans should watch all the games, as a supporter and not pick and choice the big games/tournaments, as we all hate THOSE fans at club level. but he argues that it isn't the same, it doesn't matter until the game, and he doesn't care about England.  Come a Euro 16, we'll all be in the same room hopefully going mental.  so why doesn't it matter vs Ireland or he didn't even bother to watch the U21s.  " boring, don't care"

It is hard to argue.

When England do well in a tournament, we defo over-hype it, but no harm as it gets the country going, a massive feel-good factor is all over the place.  Everyone to a man women and child is buzzing during a successful tournament.

The U21s is different still as it is a breeding ground for young talent to play international football preparing for the bigger step - so I understand the concept of playing the younger talent only and not those that have broken in. 

But rock and a hard place really - do we promote the Sterlings, Kane's etc of this world too quickly and they should spend 1-2 seasons in the U21s and 1 tournament before being upgraded?  That makes sense to me.
But then where do Pritchards, Loftus-Cheek Ings, etc play their International Football?

the U21 windows is small, only a couple of years so surely you have to strike hot when you have a crop of decent young players, and make the most of them at their level.

FA level -coaching Level - we seem to have a tactically, mental block on how to play tournament football - and that needs addressing at all levels before we even begin to see a repeat of '90, '96 and even '66.

Gerrard had an interview last night on BT sport, whereby he said the European players packed their bags a week before gagging to get to represent their country, where the England players doesn't bond in that same way - which also needs addressing.

Is the Under21s a breeding ground or to be used to win tournaments, if so, then " block" Sterling, Kane, etc etc playing for the national team.....but then......

I know Beckham was crocked, but Sven's 2002/2004 teams were pretty good.  Gerrard, Owen, Beckham, Rio, Lampard all in their prime years.

We had a decent team in 2002 and 2004 IMO. Played badly against eventual winners Brazil in the 2002 QF of course (and that freak goal) but it was a side that had Seamen/Ferdinand/Campbell/A.Cole/Butt/Scholes/Beckham/Owen in or around their prime. Also Trevor Sinclair of course :) Just comparing the back five of Seamen/G.Neville/Campbell/Ferdinand/A.Cole to what we have now makes me shudder.

In 2004 if you look at the line-up who lost to Portugal it was: James/Neville/Cole/Terry/Campbell/Gerrard/Lampard/Beckham/Scholes/Rooney/Owen - you can debate the merits of those individuals as a team but as individuals they were - with the possible exception of James - world class/top tier players for most of their career and as good as what we had in '96. Owen obviously went downhill after 2006 with injuries of course.

Variance that we haven't reached at least a semi-final. Probably.
Variance that we haven't had a decent team. Disagree.

Edit: DungBeetle beat me to it.

I'm 100% certain that Southgate stated he never considered those players because he wanted to stay loyal to those players who had helped England reach the finals. A laudable stance, but you can't help but think Barkely, Shaw and The Ox who are only really fringe players - if that - in the Senior squad would've benefited from going to a major tournament.

I'd struggle to put any of those players in a Worlds Best XI except maybe Rio.

Fair comment - but neither would Adams or Gazza (96 edition) made a world XI either.

'Were they the best' is too high variance. (beckham eg defo was for me, but you could argue lots of ways)

Would they make the 'squad of the tournament' is better.

And they all would have. Pretty easily I'd imagine. Think of it this way, would an Earth Manager preparing his 23-man squad for the galaxy Cup be making a mistake not picking them. I think the answer is resoundingly yes.

I don't particularly care about England but, what amuses me is that every generation that comes through they are never bedded in properly and the nation always ecpects come big game time.

I think we only need to look at Spain/Germany/Brazil/Argentina (to a certain extent) they bring players through in bulk and use the under 21/23 teams to bed them in and it seems to work.   

After the players you need to look at the management/coaching structure.  I mean Gareth Southgate?  Seriously, I don't think he ever showed anything to suggest he was a top thinker/coach. 

The very definition of ldo

I care about all England national teams but with less enthusiasm than I used to, but I care less about football in general now. My club will always come first and will always be one and true love when it comes to football.

It is weird because in cricket a sport that is now probably my sport of choice the England team is what truly matters to me. Maybe it is where I grew up (Norfolk) that I don't have a true cricketing identity county wise, but I am Nottinghamshire member and regularly attend games at Trent bridge.