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Title: Non-nut draw on a dynamic board Post by: LovesADraw on March 31, 2016, 10:06:01 PM Sitting with £370 in a live £1/£2 game with :6d :7s UTG+1
The £5 straddle is live and I make it £10. I had been card dead for a while and had a pretty tight image at the table to get in with a nice implied odds type of hand. I get three callers including UTG. (Should I have made this bet bigger? In hindsight I feel that I made it too accessible to other players with a lower strength hand) :5s :9s :Kh (Pot £41) UTG leads for £15, I feel that my gut shot is worth a look at the turn here with the intention to fold to any further aggression from late position. All others fold, heads up to the turn. :4h (Pot £71) UTG leads again, this time for £30. Of course if I hadn't picked up more equity on the turn I fold here but I did, so I make the call. (Thoughts on this call? I think that any rivers that make my straight are pretty innocuous to a big(ish) King so my implied odds are quite strong. :3s (Pot £131) Woooo I hit my straight, boooo the front door flush came in.... UTG leads again for £65. I now feel that he's polarised to a flush or a King. In my head I've decided that it's more often a king and make the call. Comments welcome on any any all decisions above... Results to follow after your comments. Thanks! Title: Re: Non-nut draw on a dynamic board Post by: UgotNuts on March 31, 2016, 11:03:33 PM Probably would just fold pre. If I was going to open utg +1 with a stadle I would make it £22 and fold to the lead with 2 players behind to act.
Not sure many villians lead kx here, more likely a flush draw. Title: Re: Non-nut draw on a dynamic board Post by: Rexas on March 31, 2016, 11:49:25 PM I mean this is definitely a fold pre and it's nowhere near close. The fact that you've played tight/been card dead or whatever literally means nothing to the other guys at the table, and when you min open it means even less. I mean if you're going to open it's got to be bigger, depends on the game but 20 seems reasonable. Patience is such a huge part of poker, and just having been card dead for a while doesn't justify making big mistakes pre. I mean, it feels like it's only a tenner and you might hit a flop so whatever, but these seemingly small mistakes spiral and if they're a part of your game that you don't address, then you're throwing money away.
Flop... I mean, I don't actually completely hate raising with a backdoor flush draw and a gutshot vs a really weak lead here. I don't think folding flop will be bad, because we've got such a bad hand that's only really got 3 outs that we're happy with. If I decided to call flop I'd do so with the intention of raising a bunch of turns like the one we get vs a smaller bet like this one, because I think it's fair to assume that a really good hand on a board this wet would want to bet more, so I think he's going to have mostly 9x/weak Kx/draws a fair bit. We don't actually have much equity, even if we assume our 8 outs are all live we've still got less than 20% equity, and we need more like 23%. As such, we're not getting the right immediate odds to draw, we've got some reverse implied odds for when we get there and he makes a flush, and our actual implied odds aren't wonderful because we're not just going to be able to bomb a heart or a spade that makes our straight and get called all that often. I also don't think we can just call turn intended to bluff some rivers if checked to, because for the most part trying to bluff live is just a bad idea. Screw balance and who likes folding and all that. Think what I've said about postflop is probably a bit wank, but tbh this is a situation you just shouldn't get yourself in to by opening really bad hands from ep. Title: Re: Non-nut draw on a dynamic board Post by: Rexas on March 31, 2016, 11:50:06 PM Sorry if any of that sounds harsh btw, isn't meant to be :)
Title: Re: Non-nut draw on a dynamic board Post by: Rexas on March 31, 2016, 11:54:43 PM I mean this is definitely a fold pre and it's nowhere near close. The fact that you've played tight/been card dead or whatever literally means nothing to the other guys at the table, and when you min open it means even less. I mean if you're going to open it's got to be bigger, depends on the game but 20 seems reasonable. Patience is such a huge part of poker, and just having been card dead for a while doesn't justify making big mistakes pre. I mean, it feels like it's only a tenner and you might hit a flop so whatever, but these seemingly small mistakes spiral and if they're a part of your game that you don't address, then you're throwing money away. Flop... I mean, I don't actually completely hate raising with a backdoor flush draw and a gutshot vs a really weak lead here. I don't think folding flop will be bad, because we've got such a bad hand that's only really got 3 outs that we're happy with and there's two other people in the hand. If I decided to call flop I'd do so with the intention of raising a bunch of turns like the one we get vs a smaller bet like this one, because I think it's fair to assume that a really good hand on a board this wet would want to bet more, so I think he's going to have mostly 9x/weak Kx/draws a fair bit. We don't actually have much equity, even if we assume our 8 outs are all live we've still got less than 20% equity, and we need more like 23%. As such, we're not getting the right immediate odds to draw, we've got some reverse implied odds for when we get there and he makes a flush, and our actual implied odds aren't wonderful because we're not just going to be able to bomb a heart or a spade that makes our straight and get called all that often. I also don't think we can just call turn intended to bluff some rivers if checked to, because for the most part trying to bluff live is just a bad idea. Screw balance and who likes folding and all that. Think what I've said about postflop is probably a bit wank, but tbh this is a situation you just shouldn't get yourself in to by opening really bad hands from ep. Title: Re: Non-nut draw on a dynamic board Post by: LovesADraw on April 01, 2016, 02:30:16 PM ok... made a minor mistake here. The hand is 6d 7d...
I wouldn't be opening 67o here lol Title: Re: Non-nut draw on a dynamic board Post by: PathFinder on April 01, 2016, 03:26:10 PM FWIW I wouldn't be opening 67 suited UTG+1 either. Rexas covers the rest pretty well
Title: Re: Non-nut draw on a dynamic board Post by: Rexas on April 01, 2016, 04:53:44 PM FWIW I wouldn't be opening 67 suited UTG+1 either. Yh I agree, it won't be horrendous but it won't be great. Title: Re: Non-nut draw on a dynamic board Post by: KingPush on April 08, 2016, 12:48:21 AM I like the open pre, you want low cardsas well as high cards. Easy fold on the flop, raise or fold the turn, call river
Title: Re: Non-nut draw on a dynamic board Post by: WotRTheChances on April 08, 2016, 01:04:26 AM I'm definitely opening pre... if i'm not i'm pretty devastated about how tough the live 1/2 game i'm sat in is.
Flop I don't mind all 3 options tbf, depends on villain, but if there were a diamond i'd definitely be either calling or raising. Turn again depends a lot on what kind of range i think the opponent takes this lead lead line with. If I think it's only strength/combo draws i'm folding, if not raising seems reasonable, calling is meh, but can't be horrific. River i'm calling, might raise vs some people... very very few people i'd fold against. Title: Re: Non-nut draw on a dynamic board Post by: LovesADraw on April 19, 2016, 10:13:22 PM Thanks for your opinions people, I think I my main issue was the size of the pre flop raise, think it needed to be 15-20 in honesty. I like to keep these hands in the early range as I'm pretty tight pre, if I haven't have some suited connectors and low pairs i'd just be a nit haha
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