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So England name their first test squad of the summer on Thursday with James Taylor bring the notable absentee after his retirement, which will result in a juggling of the batting order somewhat.

Personally I would go for

Cook
Hales
Vince
Root
Bairstow
Ballance
Stokes
Rashid
Broad
Finn/plunkett (not sure if Finn is fit?)
Anderson

Compton doesn't seem to be the answer to any question I can think of, so I would be bring Vince in at 3 and giving Ballance his chance at 5, but he would be on a short lead.

Rashid has made the more impressive start to the season in my mind, and deserves his chance over Ali.

Is Finn fit? If so, I would put him in, but of not, and in the absence of him and Wood, I would bring Plunkett in, a bit of pace and aggression and he can smack it about a bit.

We should be beating Sri Lanka comfortably at home.

Don't think ballance's technique stands up to a top examination. He won't get that against Sri Lanka so could easily score a shed load and we wouldn't be that much better off ITLR.

Vince seems exciting so happy for him to get a run, even at 3.

Would move stokes back to 6 and give Butler the gloves back at 7. Bairstow would play as a batsman only.

Rashid over Ali is a tough call too.

I know what you are saying about Ballance, but I think his weight of rubs deserves 1 more shot at it.

Butler is another with suspect technique. If he was told to just go out there and give it a biff I think he would do OK, it's when he tries to play "properly" that he gets caught out.

Bairstow at 5 is what I meant! His batting is only getting better and I think he will win England more than a few games in his career

England will breeze through the summer, barring odd glimpses neither touring side will be able to overcome England in English conditions. A Pakistan visit is never devoid of controversy though so should still be interesting to follow!

Buttler not available for selection playing in the IPL, it was straight choice he was given with ECB blessing.

Think they will go same team that played in South Africa with Vince in for Taylor at 5. To be hones I would be quite happy with that, though Hales and Compton probably only have this up coming series to make an impression.

Will be surprised if we don't beat Sri Lanka comfortably, can't see their batting line up without the two greats in it anymore, scoring many in early summer against our seam attack.

ENGLAND TEST SQUAD TO PLAY SRI LANKA AT HEADINGLEY

AN Cook (Captain), MM Ali, JM Anderson, JM Bairstow, JT Ball, SCJ Broad, NRD Compton, ST Finn, AD Hales, JE Root, BA Stokes, JM Vince


Will take a decent wager that we'll see Westley and Browne, maybe Bell Drummond too for Hales, Compton etc by the end of the summer

Not convinced with Vince. He's not exactly set county cricket alight last couple of seasons but seems well liked by the management for his contributions as a squad man and in the Lions. I remain to be convinced.

I think Compton has three tests to save his international career and I would really like to see Hales get a couple of scores.

Being a Kent fan, opportunities for Division 2 players in the test setup is an interesting topic. Now that we've had the division split for some time now, I wonder when we'll get to a point where Div 2 players aren't considered test-worthy. I'm surprised this hasn't happened already since there always seemed to be a bias favoring the 'big' clubs' players?

Personally, I would love DBD to get an England call up as I take a lot of pride when Kent produce England players. I do like that about Cricket-that the whole setup is driven towards producing international players, and clubs reap the rewards when they manage to do this.

I think there is clear difference in standard between the two divisions now and the "test ground" county side now represent the whole of the 1st division with the exception of Somerset. Performing in the 1st division is going to become more and more important to getting the test side.

To be honest in a generations time I can see the domestic scene changing completely and some counties may well disappear from the top domestic competitions.

Have to admit, having seen Bell-Drummond a few times I haven't been that impressed and know a Kent member who has a similar opinion.

playing Div 1 cricket is almost essential if you want to play for England, and that's been the case for a while. Unless a player is absolutely tearing it up and have stats you just can't ignore, I'll always "devalue" runs and wickets taken in Div 2 in comparison to Div 1. Gulf in class is pretty big imo.

^ This. I know when Moeen Ali came into the test side, it was a big deal that he came from a Division 2 team. Had a look on Wiki and everyone who debuted in this decade bar Tredwell and Moeen plays for a side that are in D1 more often than not - And that says more about the quality of spinners we're producing in county cricket than anything else, IMO.

It's not quite as bad as South Africa, where you've got the main first class competition and a total joke second tier provincial competition that plays 3 day games and still has first class status somehow, with no promotion/relegation to the highest tier. Absolute farce that those games even have first class status, but that's another rant for another day.

However, County Cricket is definitely heading in a similar direction with the ever-growing chasm between D1 and D2, and reducing D1 to 8 teams next year (2 down, 1 up) is just another step in that direction as it'll become even harder for established D2 teams to get promoted with another bigger county in D2. With having to fit in the limited overs competitions, possible switch to T20 franchises, IPL window, players already playing too much cricket that have all been discussed in recent years, it wouldn't surprise me if we have to split into 3 divisions of 6 teams and cut down to 10 first class games a season somewhere down the line to allow some/all of those things to happen. That might be the only way that 18 counties can survive long term too, considering how much money comes from limited overs cricket (particularly T20) and how little comes from FC games.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03wg76n

Lovely piece.

Hi Rich / All

Looking at your quote do you still see the mentioned players getting a game? Obv Hales going nowhere for a year.

Who do we all see coming in for the series against Pakistan? I'm not convinced by Vince at all. Can see Buttler returning, but would rather he is 'keeper if he is recalled. Bairstow a much better fielder than wickie imo.

Saw Bell-Drummond earlier in season and didn't look anything special in that game.

What about Jimmy situation? to me I would rest him rather than risk a long term injury if he's not yet fit!

Edit; just seen Ballance been picked? backward step

its quite a fluid situation

Anderson is injured

Stokes can't bowl yet

both back in side when fit


Cook, Hales is now set

Root begins the pakistan series at 3

Ballance and Vince i don't really like as picks, would like to see them heading towards the younger guys like westley who are nearly ready. they wanted to put borthwick in but he's scored no runs since compton decided to drop out before he was dropped for good

bairstow keeps. could easily have him top six and a specialist keeper. foakes and ben cox must be close. not sure they were convinced by buttler as a specialist batsman in the top six

bairstow will score a lot of runs and hopefully offset the odd drop that will happen


broad is currently the only bowler pretty much assured to play all four tests if fit

woakes, finn, ball, roland jones, any others competing for a spot or two at most when everyone is fit


Pakistan have amir and yasir who are going to make sure they are competitive this summer, think it will be a closer series than many expect. i looked at amir at taunton in the first warm up and he was swingint it both ways round corners, seriously impressive. hopefully he stays fit

Yasir has 76 wickets in 12 tests but this is his first go in england, seriously good bowler though especially if it dries upa nd pitches are a bit more worn

Not a fan of Ballance coming back in, I don't much like the look of that team that is going to start, the middle order looks a bit ropey now to me.

Would think the team will be

Cook
Hales
Root
Vince
Ballance
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Finn
Ball

Runs needed from cook, root and Bairstow in that. Would rather have seen Buttler in for Ballance.

Vince still has a lot to prove in all forms of the game I think, I was backing him before the summer started, but was disappointed with him against Sri Lanka.

Ball lacks pace from what I have seen of him, but as he was in the test squads earlier in the year, he will get the call rather than Rowland Jones.

There is a lot resting on broad for England in that bowling lineup, and I still would rather see Rashid in than Ali.

Agree this series is going to be a lot closer than was first anticipated.

in the press conference cook said they considered  borthwick, roy, westley, buttler and stokes as specialist batsmen for the sixth batting spot and went with Ballance

look out for westley, the real deal

borthwick is short of runs

roy doesn't have test match technique

Must admit I don't know that much about Westley, but that would make his inclusion all the more exciting! I'm just worried that Ballance will be found out by the quick again.

It would have been nice to see a new name in there, or Buttler coming in middle order with the license/instructions to play his shots. Going back to Ballance when he hasn't really set the world alight, just smacks a little bit of "old England" to me

I was friends at school with Toby's older brother, Olly, an excellent cricketer in his own right. Toby was a three years below us.

On leaving school, a group of us established a decent standard but very much social cricket team - the Village XI. Olly used to turn up semi regularly and one day, when we were scratching around for numbers, we asked him to bring his bro and he duly obiliged. On arriving at the ground, turned out we had 12 players so young Toby was relegated to 12th man duties. Incredible to think he could go from Village XI 12th man to Test crricketer in a few short years.

Clearly our youth system doing its job!  :D

It's incredible when you play against people who are now pros isn't it?

I have rather vivid memories of Liam Plunkett bowling very fast at my head when he played in our local area. Also played against a young man called weighall last year, who made his Durham debut this year, he carted my leg spin all over Stokesley!!

One of the lads in our team at the minute once got bowled for a duck by Moeen Ali when he lived in Birmingham. To be fair, he is rubbish though.

Played against battersea west Indians in the late 1990s in the Surrey league. I opened the batting. Ball one, bouncer over my head. Ball two hit in rib cage. Ball three on backside avoiding another bouncer. Ball four cleaned up by a Yorker I never saw. The bowler was a ringer real name franklyn stephenson. Over 40 by then but unplayable to someone as limited as me

Franklyn wasn't much younger when he played for Sussex. Done very well with bat and ball

Probably a bit of Durham bias but disappointed Borthwick hasn't got his chance here. A couple of low scores shouldn't go against him when you look at his record over the past 2/3 seasons. That being said, moving Root to 3 is a positive move so If borthwick is down as a 3 or nowhere then that's fair enough.

Mixed messages re Buttler, they encourage going to IPL, say it won't harm test chances then Cook says they didn't pick him due to lack of red-ball matches.

When Stokes is back at 7 I'd like to see Rashid in ahead of Ali.

managed to get some 11/4 about Broad being top England series bowler just after they announced Jimmy misses out on 1st test, happy with that.

I agree i'd much rather see Rashid in ahead of Ali, especially the way Rashid bowled in the ODI's. Looked class to me. Think Moeen is there because the frailty in the middle order.

If they are going back to Ballance i'd rather they'd went right the way back to Bell.

Even give the Butler the gloves to bat at 6 and move Bairstow to 5 as a specialist, however i guess they won't do this as they'd revert back as soon as Stokes is fit.

I definitely think this will be a close series.

A 2nd ton on tour for Azhar Ali. Do we take these county games with a pinch of salt? He's clearly in a bit of form. Has a poor test record over here though. Pp still have him at 9/2 for top Pakistani series batsman.

Finally getting to fking Lord next weekend! How many years? lol  ;grr;

Wouldn't put too much emphasis on Sussex game, we been rubbish all season and had a very average bowling attack playing in this game.

+1.

I wouldn't even say Pakistan dominated that hard considering. Openers are basically clueless, bowling attack toothless barring Amir and Yasir, who may be exceptional but can't win a series here on their own surely. Imo Pakistan are carrying a few too many players to match up against an England side who are insanely strong at home. England 2-0 for me.

you are probably right

but

lords will be flat, england have been hinting at discomfort that its going to be so flat

england minus anderson and with a middle order with ballance and vince. beyond cook/root/bairstow i don't see much solid test class in the top 6

obviously a lot depends on amir and yasir..yasitr in particular should cause england a lot of problems if the summer is reasonably dry

but i thought 4/1 Pakistan was a huge price for the first test. If they win the toss they are much shorter than 4/1

a batting line up of hafeez, shan, azhar, misbah, younus, shafiq and sarfraz should be competitive. If not then they've got no hope obviously

MCC World Cricket Committee get bat edges reduced to 35mm and bat depth to 60mm. Will happen by Oct 2017.

in test cricket In the 1950s one in 30 balls was hit for four. It's now one in 14.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnK7xT8WYAE6HSU.jpg)

Lads are 4/1 Pakistan now for a short time. Only to £25 but that's £16.75 of EV and a sweat in what I hope is going to be a really competitive series.

[EDIT. 4.8 to back for £250 on Betfair]

The problem is the openers aren't very good and Azhar will be regularly coming out to face a new cherry

Yep, Masood their weakest batsman by a distance imo.

Moeen on borrowed time? didn't threaten today. Attack of Broad, Anderson, Woakes, Rashid and Stokes by the 3rd test?

Is Rashid available to play test cricket?

I seem to recall him declining any more selections in favour of just playing ODI's and travelling the various T20 comps.

Surely not much was expected of Moeen today? Flat first day pitch against a team who despite their weaknesses are generally excellent at playing spin. Doubt there'll be much difference in effectiveness between Moeen and Rashid tbh except one bats much better than the other. In this series it'll be the pacers who do the majority of the work for sure. 4 frontline seamers with Moeen for days 4/5 seems like the best option to me.

Yasir's 6-72 the best figures by a visiting spinner v England at Lord's since Sid Pegler's 7-65 for SA in 1912.

83 wickets in his first 13 teasts, the most ever

very very good bowler

now under DRS the batsmen have a lot less room for manoeuvre because of umpires call, marginal decisions stay with the umpire and so he's getting lots of LBWs

england middle order very weak against spin, can't use their feet because he spins it both ways

What do we think is a winning total for Pakistan? 270 ahead? 4th innings wicket with the best leggie in the world?

Something like that. 200 england favourites, 300 pakistan favourites, 250 to chase 50-50?

England will be favourites if they are set 270.  Think the bookies will have the number at around 300-320 for a 50/50 game

England's innings was the first in Lord's Test history in which no overs were bowled by right-arm seamers.

stat.

220 will be enough probably, Yasir too good on day 4

Woakes 11wkts in 40overs this match; 8w in 154ov in his first 6 Tests.

 If he keeps improving at this rate, he'll take a wicket every 0.7 balls by 2023.

Yasir Shah has taken 24 wickets at 17.8 in the fourth innings of Tests. Won six games out of seven

the bookmakers do not have Pakistan favourite to win this test, which i find very strange

who is your money on then?

286 to win

I can't remember the last time England batted well in the 4th innings of a test. Either achieving a run chase or batting out a day for a draw?

Shot a ball here really isn't working.

I think aggression is the way to go. No use sitting back and waiting for Yasir to get them out.

Wanna and Amir don't look dangerous at all, That has taken 3 but also looks like he can go for runs.

Still very much in this game.

Bairstow the key factor for me here. Have little faith in Ballance, however I hope he proves me wrong obviously!

Woakes to hit the winning runs!!

Why is the draw come in from 1000/1 to 250/1?  Is rain expected at all?

Totally agree, this boy has a full set of clubs in his bag, googlies, flippers, everything.........

I know it might sound a little after-timey but I was incredulous that Pakistan were almost 2.4 on betty at the start of the run-chase.

I am now extremely grateful that they got me out of this weeks golf losses  ;bigadz;

Yasir Shah the first spinner to take 10 in a Lord's Test since Underwood v Pakistan in 1974. First visiting spinner since Ramadhin in 1950.

Anderson and Stokes for Finn and Ball would seem natural changes for Old Trafford, provided selectors deem them fit enough of course

what to do about Mo Ali? Rashid maybe?

I think Rashid should be in the squad, if anything just to put a bit of pressure on Moeen. I'm not Moeen's biggest fan, but an off-spinner bowling into the left-armer's footmarks should (!) be a useful weapon.

Would love to see them changes, but don't think that the selectors will go for all 3. Expect Maureen to continue until the end of the series unfortunately.

I'd swap Moeen for Stokes because pace needs to be the focus. It's playing to England's strengths and Pakistan's glaring weakness.

Can't we just forget spin, Rashid will be as ineffective as Moeen vs Pakistani batsmen and just make the tail longer. Doubt Rashid even plays FC cricket over there, certainly gets nowhere near the Pakistan national side.

Instead let a bit of grass grow on the Old Trafford pitch and watch Anderson make a huge difference in the next test. Pakistan's pace attack looked overrated to me.

If you're hellbent on having a spin option then it has to be Moeen because he is at least capable of sparing blushes with the bat.

Moeen is more miss than hit (a lot more) with the bat. Rashid is no mug, and offers far more with the ball, turning it both ways, with far more variation.

He deserves his chance.

Not having a spin option isn't really an option, it needs to be there just to offer some variety, if all you have is pace, it is easier to settle in against it.

Going in with 5 seamers would be a bit over-kill for me, especially 5 right arm bowlers in and around 85-90 mph. You need a bit of variety. Rashid looks a far better bowler than moeen on the recent odi's (different form obviously) while moeen will contribute a bit more with the bat, though Rashid is no mug. They won't make the change of spinner, and that's probably fair enough but I'd like to see rashy in the squad to add a bit extra motivation for moeen.

A Tour of India starting in November, too, if you need any more reason to keep two spinners involved.

Surely stokes in for ball and anderson for Finn.

This also gives the oppourtuntiy to bring Rashid in for Moeen. As Stokes can slot into number 7 and rashid into number 9.

I was quite impressed with Rashid in the ODI's. Obviously a totally different proposition against Pakistan in the test format.

These 3 changes improves both the bowling and batting, seems like a no brainer to me.

I think Moeen is a little under-rated as a bowler and reckon he'll keep his place.

Rashid in the squad for the 2nd test so i'd be very surprised now if they didn't pick him.

Maybe room for Moeen as well as OT is rumoured to be a turner? Though i'm sure the curators would be under strict instructions not to allow that to happen.

Only in England would they prepare a pitch that doesn't aid the home nation.

Ball and Finn out

down to 12 for tomorrow, Rashid included.

either two spinners or rashid for ali?

that is a big toss to win

as you can see bottom right its cracked already

slightly suprised not going with two spinners, need to scored 450+ here and bat once in the game

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cn9Yg9SWYAAHfnd.jpg)

Agree with Tighty, huge toss to win. This will comfortably be the best the pitch plays.

Makes absolutely no sense playing 4 seamers on here - blinkered thinking from the management. Rashid should have certainly played, probably alongside Moeen but at worst in place of. This looks like the pitch you want a leg spinner on!

Can't resist taking a bit of the 7/2 on offer for Pakistan though. Yasir is a special bowler and is going to cause mayhem 2nd innings.

I've had a little flutter on Pak too based on what i've seen. Seamers don't seem to be causing too much trouble but Yasir is already getting a fair bit of rip at times. Pakistan are likely to play Moeen very well. Probably a result pitch here so probably worth a little gamble imo.

Younis Khan batting as though he's got an ingrowing toenail.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoHdBdQWcAAzKS5.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoHdBnnXgAAPxcX.jpg)

its a world Xi v Australia for a one off boxing day test...

one of these bats number 3, the other doesn't play (humour me)

who've you got in the side?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoHcpFmXEAA_R8J.jpg)

Root. Better all round player. Better test bat, can bowl and is a good fielder. Kholi is nice to watch, Root is a better bat.

Why the fk would they not enforce the follow on?

Where's the test being played? Kohli in the sub-continent and Root everywhere else for me.

Give the bowlers a rest.

I would have opened with Hales and Vince with Ballance at 3. Let them get some time in the middle.

Saw that pic on facebook, the Indians replying were going into meltdown that their hero might have some competition for top spot lol.

Just for interest Tighty........... Name your World XI for the match.

I'll have a poke at this:
Cook, Amla, Williamson, Root, Kohli, AB (wk), Ashwin,  Steyn , Boult, Shah, Anderson

Toyed with the ideas of Rabada ( think he's going to a real star in the future) and Amir ( perhaps too early for him?). No genuine all-rounder in the team but couldn't really leave any of the top 6 out so cheated and gave the gloves to AB. Nice balance to the attack with a leggie, an offie and a left arm pacer to go with Steyn and Anderson.

Still can't believe he didn't enforce follow on

World XI! That's interesting...

Amla
Cook
Root
Kholi
Voges
De Villiers
Bairstow
Starc
Broad
Shah
Anderson.

Voges is a beast in his test career so far, averaging 90 odd, Bairstow deserves to be in since his comeback too.

Would have liked Warner in at the top,but can't look past Amla and cook.

4 pronged bowling attack with the 3 quick and shah with some backup from Rooty :)

Typical extra negative England. Terrible decision not to make them bat again imo.
Bowlers only bowled 60 overs and in short spells too.
With rain about they should have taken the option of a short bowling session tonight.

WHY are we still batting?

for crying out loud, we will have 5.5 sessions to bowl them outshould have had 7+

the most baffling non enforcement of the follow on i have ever seen

oh, declared

564 to win. can never be too careful.

Yeah seems genuinely insane. Should have declared first thing this morning having given the bowlers a breather overnight.

If Azhar, Younis and Misbah are all capable of digging in on a pitch that is still ok to bat on. I don't think it'll happen but it still doesn't make any sense to have taken this much risk.

they'll win, but a complete waste of 30 overs that maybe 1 time in 20 in Manchester would cost them (weather), maybe 1 time in 50 elsewhere?

i still don't get why they wouldn't make them follow on

i gather the pakistani openers were padded up at 9 wickets down ready to bat again. Very very pleasantly surprised to be fielding

as boycott says "always make the opposition do what they least want to do"

which was bat again

The theory apparently was Stokes and Anderson not 100 % fit, with Broad and Woakes playing back-to-back tests.

The Aussies do it a lot, so maybe Bayliss' influence.

I disagree with it, and sky pundits saying "it doesnt matter either way as England will win" yesterday is missing the point. It seemed madness at the time and then as soon as it started raining it became even more apparent.

Now Stokes is injured maybe they'll think it was right all along ...

Just get them to bowl shorter spells? Job done without risking the entire outcome of the test match

Thing is they did bowl short spells. Stokes got injured anyway so didn't stop that. With the game situation and potential weather, they should have been put back in, especially as England were 1 down in the series.

For a moment there I thought I'd accidentally clicked on the Arsenal thread.

A+

A superb performance from a very good side

Don't half bounce back well from defeats

Cook one of the best ever in his position surely.

Sorry I jinxed him. Having said that it was absolutely plumb lbw. It is literally ridiculous that had the umpire not given it out then the review would have backed up that decision too. "Umpires call" on the DRS needs a BIG overhaul.

It looked outside the line to me at first glance! Would be upset to get that one playing my local league on a Saturday!!

Pakistan have a big opportunity here to rack up 500+. New ball seems to be doing about as much as the old one. Pitch is a road.

With 20 wickets to fall to cause a result and a pitch that isn't really doing anything this contest now looks like a draw. Cook won't be making any aggressive declarations on this surface and will be looking for a lead of 350 or so. Great fightback from the captain and Hales though, always a big pressure situation when you're facing a 3 figure deficit but they made it look truly easy.

Alex Hales refunded a fan after only 81 overs were bowled on Day 3 at Edgbaston Full story: http://bbc.in/2aVN7Vf

So sky did this

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CpKnu1RXgAA8iJh.jpg)

i would need Kane Williamson in though

last night

Kane Williamson becomes youngest to score a century against every other Test nation

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CpPY24FWEAAby_L.jpg)

Williamson scores 100s against all teams - In 91 innings - Age of 25 years, 364 days - 2012 days from debut - In 14 100s

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CpPahbXWIAAIl4g.jpg)

That world XI is a joke. Can't have a guy in as a keeper who doesn't keep. Williamson and Steyn obvious omissions. Stokes potentially not even the best all rounder in the England team, let alone the world.

Had a fantastic day at Edgbaston on Friday. Was in the 'rowdy' stand that was doing all the singing. Was a really great atmosphere all day and plenty of action in the *cough* 81 overs played. Went with my brother who really isn't a huge cricket fan but comes to the odd T20 etc and I was a little worried that the pace of the game might not be quick enough for him but he really enjoyed it as well.

We are still a very very good side

Superb perfomance

I think it's almost exactly the same XI i'd pick. Openers are pretty clear-cut. Batsmen you have to pick 3 from Smith, Root, Williamson, Kohli, Amla. I think for tests i'd pick the first 3 and leave out Virat, alternatively leave out Smith. Big fan of both Root and Williamson.

As for the keeper there aren't really any stand-out 'pure' keepers, but AB has done the job quite a lot and he has to be in the side anyway, so i'm happy with that.

Can't think of many better all-rounders than Stokes in world cricket at the moment, Mitch Marsh? Shakib? Woakes? There are very few genuine all-rounders out there at the moment.

Ashwin has to be in there as the #1 ranked bowler in tests, Starc is the best seamer in the world imo, does a lot with the new ball at pace and knocks over tails for fun. Anderson's skills with a moving ball are unparralelled, but you have to balance that with the issues he comes across playing in the sub-continent. Equally i'm not sure Yasir Shah is a real world-beater outside of the UAE, maybe i'd go with Anderson and Boult/Broad/Steyn, but I feel like Steyn is on the way down from his peak.

Cook
Warner
Root
Williamson
Smith
de Villiers
Stokes
Ashwin
Broad
Starc
Anderson

(probable slight England bias)

liked this one from yesterday

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CpRDMbCXYAAgdEp.jpg)

https://t.co/1LY7IjhA4P

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CpmRaZKWIAA_Iiz.jpg)

spin trouble

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CpwgR_vXgAA6SZL.jpg)

Surely we have to rethink Ballance and Vince. Entirely unconvincing all Summer.

I'm open to suggestions on England's new middle order?

Hales, Vince and Balance all out for the winter.

I think they might persist with Hales, but definitely agree on Vince and Ballance. Who do you think is likely to replace them? The temptation must be there to bring back Jos Buttler and play Bairstow as a batsman higher up the order. I'm a bit out of touch with County Cricket at the moment, are there any promising English middle order batsmen shining?

No one really putting their hands up but the young Middlesex opener Nick Gubbins has scored a lot of runs batting two or three in Div 1. Sam Northeast has had a great season in Div 2 and is averaging 90 odd but there is a definite drop in standard in that division. Ben Duckett and Daniel Bell-Drummond have done well for the Lions as well. Wouldn't mind any of them getting a spot in the touring squad.

Haseem hamed of lancs will tour. Rock tight technique, selectors have watched every game of his for two months. Duckett will be in the next odi squad. Currans close too. Bell Drummond, malan, westley, abell, Browne in the next wave

Hales and Vince and Ballance all out for me. Pakistan should have been routed in this series in all honesty and part of the reason that didn't happen is that these 3 players were all passengers. I never felt any of them were cut out to make big scores and it's only going to get harder away from home. I think England need someone a bit stodgier to stubbornly hold up an end rather than play shots and get out. England's RR was actually a little too high i thought.

another name to think about

"Keaton Jennings spies a window of opportunity

With England’s red ball cricket season coming to a close, it’s timely to look at who has impressed in county cricket and might just sneak a place in a touring squad. Keaton Jennings is top of the pops among Division One batsmen, his 965 runs coming at 69 including five hundreds (and over 250 ahead of team-mate Scott Borthwick). Now qualified for England, the tall left-handed bat can also bowl a little seam up, a useful string to one’s bow in an England side whose change bowler (Joe Root) has a long term back condition. Perhaps one might like to see more than one season of accomplishment before an England cap is awarded, but Jennings has had his eye on one since declaring for England four years ago, and he is not far away now."

Jennings is superb, in all forms of cricket.

As much as I would like to see changes to the team, I think that the selectors and cook have proven over many a year that they will simply not make changes.

I would expect to see wood and Stokes back in, with most likely Vince and Finn dropping out.

Highest ODI score ever a possibility here if you arent watching yet...

Awesome stuff.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrIivb_XgAACK3K.jpg)

I had a small interest on Root top run scorer. He scores 85 and comes 3rd!

What a fantastic spectacle for the fans - wish I'd been there.

another double today

7 hundreds, 3 doubles this summer

hopefully picked soon!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Crw0BY3WcAEITb4.png)

Hameed, Anbsari, Duckett.......

England Test squad

Alastair Cook (captain, Essex), Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), James Anderson (Lancashire), Zafar Ansari (Surrey), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Gary Ballance (Yorkshire), Gareth Batty (Surrey), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Jos Buttler (wk, Lancashire), Ben Duckett (Northamptonshire), Steven Finn (Middlesex), Haseeb Hameed (Lancashire), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Ben Stokes (Durham), Chris Woakes (Warwickshire), Mark Wood (Durham).


England ODI squad

Jos Buttler (captain, Lancashire), Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Jake Ball (Nottinghamshire), Sam Billings (Kent), Liam Dawson (Hampshire), Ben Duckett (Northamptonshire), Liam Plunkett (Yorkshire), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Jason Roy (Surrey), Ben Stokes (Durham), James Vince (Hampshire), David Willey (Yorkshire), Chris Woakes (Warwickshire), Mark Wood (Durham).


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/37375138

Very good first day today. We'll see if it really is as simple as "win toss, win match". Root dismissal was very strange.

That ball wasn't safely in his hands when he tossed it up, it was inbetween wrists and he popped it up purposely to catch it clean, not to celebrate. Hence why he snap turned around to try and catch it.

I don't like this soft signal thing. Either the umpire gives it out, or the 3rd umpire has full authority to chose which decision he likes.

really nice for the selectors to watch a teenager, think he's special, pick him and see him perform like this. Haseeb Hameed looks rock solid with a great temperament

thought England bowled v well too. Ansari definitely has a future as he develops

meanwhile, you have to chuckle (while we can)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxDmB_TW8AAE5M9.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxDmDdDXcAAFXF1.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxDmEQyW8AA5E5m.jpg)

Haha, saffers stuck them in and all. And Pup wonders why he has a bad rep in Australia. Thinking about getting his book, plenty of controversy in it.

Selfless stuff from cook

Very sensible declaration

Ball turned and bounced a lot more today

Very unlikely of course but could at least get interesting

after the good performance in Rajkot today has been much more like what was feared pre-series

Apart from Cook we've seen a run out, a slog, a dance down the pitch etc. 4 of the 5 batsmen got themselves out. not much patience shown, on a pitch doing a bit more than the first test

Our bowling yesterday didn't help either, make it look a lot easier batting than it should have done. Time to rest Ansari, looks average County standard to me

I don't even know how Ansari got picked in the first place. What was someone as average as him expected to do at test level? A specialist batsmen in his place seems like a no brainer, which means it's going to take the selectors forever to figure it out.

England selectors are poor and have been for as long as I can remember. As strange as picking Batty for the tour was, why drop him when he was probs the best bowler in Bang?

think thats a bit harsh. selectors hit with Hameed, picked Duckett and a decade a go these guys wouldn't be anywhere near the team at their ages. that said, Duckett's defence needs to improve but he'll get a run to show he can do that

they don't have much spin to choose from, the domestic game doesn't suit spinners

Leach looks talented but even his coach says he's not ready. Rayner maybe but they weren't awash with options ahead of Batty and Ansari.

Ansari has a great temperament, bats well and has potential (would like to see him rip it more rather than just twirl it). Need to give him a run and then judge.

after all Rashid is seven years older and only just now showing signs of being a test spinner

Ansari was thinking of retiring from professional cricket as recently as August. Had lucrative job offers in the City and still considering.

double first and a masters at cambridge, concert pianist.

dressing room nickname "prime minister"!

The classic question with ansari is who do you pick instead? No other spinner good enough.  Another batsman would be ballance (not good enough) or buttler (no red ball cricket in a year) I think ansari has done the holding role passably So far.  The days where rashid goes round the park he'll be important.

Duckett will be fine,  he's learning on the job but hopefully Thorpe will be a good help for him.  Hope he doesn't just plonk his front foot on off stump as an over reaction,  as he'll. Then be lbw fodder for the one that goes straight on.

Good rugby player too. Played fly half for a very decent school first XV for 3 years.

Out of the lot have to go with Batty, though can't just pick 3 spinners if all are poor just because it's India. Wouldn't go near Ballance and he should never have been picked. Buttler should be in team, plays IPL and knows conditions.

Bairstow is batting too low at 7.

too good to be batting 7

Agree, so often he has to give up his wicket chasing quick runs before the tail runs out

This. Would have even rather played a fast bowler over Ansari as England have quite a few of those who are good. England need to learn to play to their strengths and not just pick x player from county circuit because spinner.

Issue would be with woakes injured in would be ball or finn,  so it's not much of an upgrade. Next test could be the best chance of a helpful wicket for seamers so hopefully woakes/broad will be able to play.

good photo

Stokes catches Kohli again

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxr9mzOXUAE7Chy.jpg)

Gritty stuff from England today

Shame cook out at the end but both nothing could be done really.

Complete agree with nasser as I usually do.

Kholi likes to shout a lot but his field placings are average at best gets away with it due to this attack

a very creditable effort today. ball is keeping low and turning. good technique to only be two down at the close

game was lost with the first innings batting from the top 5 (not Cook), run outs and slogs etc. arguably lost the moment they lost the toss i suppose

Yep won't be many who survive against this pitch when losing the toss.

Nick knight like kholi no surprise there

id drop duckett for buttler next test, bairstow to 4. just dont think duckett is going to get anything out of this tour, and maybe give him a go next summer.

i am a fan of ansari and batty but unless they rock up and find mohali cracked crazy paving and dusty (they might) then i think given the way broad bowled here they'll be tempted to go with 4 quicks (anderson, broad and woakes + stokes) and moeen/rashid as suggested in this thread

they also have 4 left handers in the top six, so buttler for duckett could well be an option for that reason

tomorrow is a big inning for duckett's short term future, though whatever happens has a very bright future. not easy to rock up on the sub-continent and begin a test career there.

broad is injured, inflamed tendon i think? and will be out for the next test, surprising given how well he bowled today!

Yeah one for the future, just need to remind him hat he's still in their thoughts for the summer when they pull him. Nothing wrong with getting exposed to Test level and then given time to go away and work on it.

Looks like Buttler for Duckett. Is there anyone who doesn't agree he should have replaced Ansari instead? #frustrating

me. I think Ansari gets left out, for either Ball or Batty. Broad looks likely to miss out for Woakes. Whatever combo we go with we're going to need 6 bowlers. Anderson Broad and Woakes are have injury doubts, if one of them breaks down then you'd be down to 4 bowlers, risk bowling Stokes into the ground etc.

I do agree it's time for Ansari to be took out of the firing line, but I don't think he's been horrendous ala Ian Salisbury of old, Kerrigan etc.

Any changes we make won't necessarily enhance our team. Duckett needs taking out, but the man replacing him had a shocker the last time he played test cricket and has a first class average below Rashid and Woakes ... Other batsman in the squad in Ballance.

Broad and Ansari out injured

Buttler replaces Dckett and will bat 7


Cook
Hameed
Root
Moeen
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Batty
Anderson

the pitch is very dry. Must win the toss and bat to have a shot

Who gets the gloves?

Bairstow keeps them

Duckett needed taking out.

There is failing without making a score and there is looking clueless. Lets face it the county game is no guide to this tbf...

Butler has no pedigree at this level but could produce something out of the blue.

More worried about batty who I still have little idea why he was picked. He seems a lovely bloke but he is barely a division 1 above average spinner let alone test level.

All that said if we get the breaks/toss no reason we can't go close

At 92/4 we'd wasted the toss

Bairstow, once again, pulled us partly out of the mire

 England had their chance after winning the toss and they blew it: 268 for 8 a nothing score on this pitch.

England just don't know how to pick a side. If you have Moeen at 4 you surely it's obvious you're a batsman light? Then having 3 spinners for India sounds great in theory but not when the 3rd one is Gareth Batty. Do the selectors realise Indians face superior spinners every single game in their domestic season? They are afraid to take risks.

I do think moeen is too high at 4 when he'll revert to 8 for home games,  but we have no other options.  Other batsman in the squad are duckett and ballance,  both currently unselectable.  If not Batty then it would be Ball or Finn so again it's debatable if we'd be stronger. 

A name mentioned batting wise is billings,  Thorpe said he was the best English player of spin. I guess if we pick specialist spin Bowlers for these tours why not specialist spin batsman?

Ok,  fair enough,  anyone but batty 😔

Today one of the reasons I love this side

Nothing happening so we put the squeeze on with some tight accurate and very good fielding so the game never got away.

A piece of world class catching from woakes and then out of this world fielding from buttler turns it all around.

Superb watching

Oh Moeen :-(

Just FYI, this is the team i would have played this game:

Cook
Hameed
Root
Ballance/Duckett/anyone who can genuinely bat
Buttler
Bairstow
Stokes
Moeen
Woakes
Rashid
Anderson

And to me this seems like a much more balanced side. If i truly had my own way i would also take out Stokes for a genuine fast bowler - this would never happen though as everyone is obsessed with Stokes despite his distinctly average stats. What England have to learn though is you can't win in this format with bits and pieces players. Picking Batty, sticking Moeen at 4 and 3 and playing too many all rounders is never going to be how you win tests.

You want to take out Stokes? jeeeeeez. 2nd in the batting averages and 3rd in the bowling for this tour, as well as being our best fielder. Was good again in Bangladesh. I went against the hype at the start, but surely now he's got to be regarded as a class player?

The batty decision is going to take a panning as he barely bowled until they gave him a long spell towards the end, as if to justify his selection. But the fact remains that the other options aren't great. Ballance just isn't good enough, after Bangladesh they should have left him out of the squad for another batsman (Jennings, Gubbins, Billings). Duckett has been exposed against top quality spin. Rather than ruin him, it's best to take him out of the firing line and try and form a way that he can defend against the spinners (he has all the attacking shots required). They were such bad options we had to pick a guy who'd played 1 first class game in a year in Buttler, that shows how bad the situation was.

the fault is in the squad selection. as ever this is partially with handsight

but in a 16 man squad you have 4 "unselectables"...duckett, ballance, ansari, batty and a seamer too many. finn/ball not required and never both likely to be at the same time. doesn't mean that duckett and ansari were bad selections, you have to find out. ballance and batty are far more questionable as you know what cricketers they are, from previously

coincidentally cook appears to have thoroughly lost faith in moeen as a bowler so that seems to explain why the option of going in with moeen/rashid only wasn't chosen

Hameed has been ruled out of the rest of the tour

he was terrific today, 58* with a broken finger. at the end of the innings he had won their respect, Kohli and co all went up and shook his hand

been some selection mistakes for this tour, but one shining light is that they should have found a test opener for 10 years plus, and selecting him at 19yo is a big plus for Bayliss and co

Pencil him in for the full Summer in England. The search for Cook's opening partner is finally resolved!

As for the batting woes, we don't seem to have anything to lose. I'm all for flying Jason Roy out and giving him a spin in the last couple of tests.

The England Lions are due to start a few games in the UAE next week - perhaps might be an idea to have them tour a few weeks ahead of the main team so if anyone hits form they can get promoted up.

the Lions were in loughborough for a month with andy flower, playing on worn scuffed pitches through october (weather allowing) ahead of the UAE.

not a hope they pick jason roy to open in tests, his technique isn't tight enough. hales is in the bad books.

have a go with gubbins, jennings or bell-drummond and see what you have.

likelihood is we'll lose 4-0, we don't have 11 effective cricketers for the sub-continent currently but lets get the guys blooded and develop a squad for the Ashes next winter

Keaton Jennings and Liam Dawson called up

If one journeyman county spinner doesn't work just pluck another out at random. That's sure to be the recipe to success  ;carlocitrone;

that's a bit harsh. the whole structure of the English game mitigates against developing big spinners (weather a bit too)

every spinner we have is a journeyman by the standards of Yasir, Ashwin, Herath etc

really you might only point to Lyon, Santner and Bishoo as non-Asian test quality spinners these days and none of them are English.

i agree you might have gone in with two spinners and played the extra seamer instead of as third spinner in India, but i repeat an earlier point..something has gone on with Cook no longer trusting Moeen's off-spin, he has bowled noticeably less in India than Bangladesh

The pitch for the 3rd test looked like a raging turner. Last year at the ground it was wrapped up within 3 days and was turning square on the 1st morning (Dean Elgar took 4 wickets ...). So going with 3 spinners is fine in that case. It turned out to be flat enough, so in hindsight they'd have been better off with the 4th seamer or a batsman.

Even with the benefit of hindsight, what role would Jake Ball have had as the 4th seamer? Stokes was our best seamer, Rashid was much improved, Ball is still 6th in the queue to get a bowl and would have bowled similar amount to Batty. Going 5 bowlers and picking Duckett when he'd been exposed might have set him back, better to take him out of the firing line. Recall ballance? he'd be a walking wicket v Ashwin. Even the Buttler selection was a big risk.

Normally in 6-man attacks the 5th/6th bowlers are top order batsman so if they don't bowl much then it's not as noticeable. It's always going to be an issue if your 3rd spinner bowls less than Moeen (bats 4) or your 4th seamer bowls less than Stokes (bats 6).

We don't have the players to win out in these conditions, there's no shame in that, neither could South Africa last year and Australia certainly won't win in India next spring. We could have made different choices in hindsight (not take Ballance if you're never going to pick him, Billings apparently v.good v spin so give him a go), not take batty (Leach gets mentioned but his own county skipper said he wouldn't be up to it) etc, but these all seem minor points to me and we'd still be getting beat off a better side in these conditions.

That's the thing though. Spin isnt our strength (it is for few teams against India in their own backyard) so where's the logic in picking 3 of them?

You pick 5 bowlers - Anderson, Woakes who'll hit the seam, Stokes who'll hit the deck, Rashid's leggies and Moeen's off breaks. If really necessary you get Root to turn his arm over a bit while the others take a breather. I don't really see what a 6th bowler will bring.

It's a travesty that two supposedly unpickable players are currently with the England squad. But i'd still rather play the extra batsman and ask him to either go and attack/shore up an end rather than waste a spot in the side with Zafar, Batty etc because India aren't necessarily the most confident bowling side. They'll knock about the extra spinner for fun, but if someone is going after them with the bat or doggedly holding up an end that is far more likely to be the difference England are searching for.

To win tests you firstly need to play to your strengths and secondly you need specialists. England selectors have done a terrible job from all angles so far no question, incredibly lucky to be saving some face with 19 year old Hameed.

some going

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyrAIKTXAAA2kBE.jpg)

Awesome going, hellova turnaround from first period playing test match cricket, went away and did the hard yards needed for test cricket. Something for Duckett etc to take on board.

I really didn't think Buttler was much of a risk, yeah he hadn't played much red ball this year but had clearly been in form. Whilst Bairstow is deffo the wickie now, I would give Buttler some glove time in last two tests in India. Bairstow gonna be shot if he spends most the game on the pitch again.

Too late now of course but i. England were happy to take Batty, they should have taken Bell, someone who can actually play spin.

Anyone else see Cook givig up captaincy at end of series, but remaining as opener?

There has been rumours about cook reported in the media. The thinking is if this series isn't his last as captain then he will carry on until the series down under next year and then give it up and bat on.

I always feel great pride as a Yorkshireman when ever one of our own does well, I think he is a great example of what you can do with hard work and the right attitude, he deserves all the plaudits he is now getting.

Great credit to bairstow gone away and worked at his his game as he said himself still work to do as well especially on his keeping we are spoilt in the wicketkeeper batsman department unlike the spin department as discussed above only plus is there a couple of promising young spinners in county cricket hopefully they willl come through in the future

Sigh 230-2 to 249-5

Its already spinning and going through the top. 350 might be a winning score, but got to get there first

Rashid at 5/2 a bet for top England wicket taker?

Edit 1st innings only if not clear

currently a bet in any innings of this series. Could be especially so on this pitch which has spun more on the first day than the previous three pitches in the series

He has 18 wickets in 3 games, next highest is 7

Cook has been bowling Moeen less, the team has dropped the third spinner too. So as long as England don't take early wickets, Rashid should be a good favourite

Cheers.  Hills maxed me at £32. 

400 should be a winner here if we bowl and catch competently ...

Poor use of a review

the difference in the quality of the spin attacks is making it look like the pitch has flattened out

India bat all day tomorrow and lead, maybe.

Yep.  Spinners being shown up.  So would most countries mind. Early days buts ashwin and jadeja will be even more of a handful 2nd time around

Well done!  ;applause;

Only 2 England players have conceded more runs in an innings.   
 ;whistle;

Cheers guys  :)up

No one has won a test in india since we last won the series over there. we went expecting to get hammered every test, and we havent. yes we will probably lose 3-1 or 4-0 but we have competed for long periods in each test, and just been let down because India, in their own conditions are just far superior to everyone ekse. We have put up a better fight than the aussies and the saffas, who were completely battered.

Side for first test this summer assuming all fit?

Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson

Thats what id go with, Rashid has proved he is a good bowler this tour, and offers something different. No point picking 5 seamers, one just wont bowl if you have Jimmy, Broady, Stokes and Woakes plus one other. only other option could be to bat Buttler 7, and Ali 8 and drop Rashid, but i like the balance of it wtith the leggie in the team

Would love to find a way of getting Mark Wood into that team if fully fit. Maybe some sort of rotation between Ando Broard Wood and Woakes.

Stokes seems too high at 6 given Hameed and Jennings relative inexperience plus not sure we need to find room for both Rashid and Moeen on English pitches. I'd probably drop Moeen for Duckett or someone similar given Root can bowl reasonable offies if required, not that i'd expect him to much given England's forte is definitely pace at home.

Gonna depend on the captaincy I think. If Cook remains skipper, Root going back to 4 gives room for him to bowl more spin. If he takes over as Captain, can't see him bowling much.

Seamers should be rotated somewhat, all of them at an age where injuries play a part

Doubt Rashid plays in home tests. Spinner at home is more used for control, Moeen fits that role better than Rashid. Hameed and Jennings look ready, so that solves some problems. For me it's just who you bat at 7. Do you want a keeper so Bairstow can just concentrate on his batting? majority of candiates are actually keepers haha, Billings, Buttler, Duckett etc.

Cook
Hammed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
?
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

In home conditions, the rest will take the burden and should allow Hammed/Jennings/your number 7 to bed in. Wood would certainly challenge if fit, but at the moment he's far too injury prone. Shame, as he's a real handful. Other bowlers like Finn, Ball, TRJ are back-up/rotation. First test of the summer is later due to hosting champions trophy so players will have a chance to state their case in county games prior.

Mark Wood, if fit, please

4 seamers plus Moeen as the stock bowler

Mark wood is a must when fit the attack has been missing a proper fast bowler for the last 4 years the missing piece and you only need to one spinner at home unless it's a real turner,everyone seems to pointing the fingers at the bowling but it's the batting thats the big letdown this winter

yeah but its not 4 seamers is it... its 5with stokes. wood anderson broad woaks and stokes, too many, one would never bowl! think buttler ha done enough so far to warrant his spot come the summer

I think England should give some consideration to playing Buttler as a keeper and allowing Johnny Bairstow to concentrate on batting. He has been fantastic but the team would benefit hugely from a few more BIG hundred rather than the 70/80s he seems to get regularly.

'England are one-dimensional, poorly captained and selecting the wrong team' - Geoffrey Boycott off his long run, breathing fire

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2016/12/12/alastair-cook-kidding-thinks-england-close-matching-india/

the chennai pitch being dried after the cyclone

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Czoohv2UUAA-Slg.jpg)

Jimmy is ruled out of the 5th test

Never knew you were a cricket sort, Matt?

Do you play, or just watch?

Big cricket fan. I used to play a bit when at school but that was quite a few years ago now!

Never knew that.

Batter, bowler, all-rounder?

Short leg

Stolen off twitter ...

Root conversion rate of 50's into hundreds 11/38 (28.9%)

rest of the ICC top 5: Smith 16/34 (47.1%); Kohli 15/29 (51.7%); Williamson 14/38 (36.8%); Amla 25/56 (44.6%)

Root in this series: 124, 4, 53, 25, 15, 78, 21, 77 and 88 = 485 runs at 53.88. Very good, but feels like a missed opportunity.

turning a couple of 50s into matchwinning big hundreds would have made it a great series

TMS have struggled with "the line" from Chennai, understandably given the recent problems there.

Real Heath Robinson stuff today.

And Aggers sems to have become a plumpy.

754-7

highest score ever against England

man alive, the bowlers will be looking forward to green tops in April at trent bridge!

And just 7 Extras, which is going some in such an innings.

love the summary; "Karun Nair hits 303 not out (dropped on 217)"

If only that catch was held, when he was only on 217.

I one met Chris Scott on a stag do, and he would have something to say at this point.  In my experience, maybe not, but his "friends" will happily fill you in. 

I wonder if Tighty could get this one without google.

dropped Lara at Edgbaston? Lara went on to get 501*?

That is the one.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jun/07/chris-scott-drop-brian-lara-the-spin-cricket (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jun/07/chris-scott-drop-brian-lara-the-spin-cricket)

I must have met him not long after that and I am pretty sure Simon Hughes wasn't the only one to hear this line.

Later, the story would come about that Scott said: “I bet he’ll go on and get a hundred now.” That was a line he gave to Simon Hughes at a party a couple of years later, which Hughes then used on TV. Maybe Scott did say that. He isn’t certain. “I may have said it. But I’m sure it wasn’t the first thing I said. The first thing I said wasn’t fit for publication.”

England won 4 tossess in the series, lost 4-0

lost by an inning here having scored 477 (rare) and lost their last ten wickets for 105 today

i think Cook will step down. Root is ready and Cook can go on as opener for several more years without the captaincy.

Great summary. I find myself in the uncomfortable position of nodding along with Sir Geoffrey who just said  we'll come back home, smash teams up with swing on green 'uns, and nothing will change.

Love to see Root given the chance. And Cook the chance to find his form again.

Issue with cook going now (I think he will) is that root will still be an inexperienced skipper when we tour Australia next winter. A real battering out there would be a big blow that early in his reign.  I'd prefer cook to stay on till then, so long as he's willing. Today might have made his mind up for him.

Thank God that the torture is finally over.

England need to get all their fringe players playing abroad in winters in leagues across the world to get them used to foreign conditions, especially the sub continent. What's the point in having a 16/17 man squad when most of them play sod all games and water carry for months. Get them some proper competitive cricket. Not exactly difficult to call someone up for injury replacement/loss of form.

Cook looks shot as a captain, let him get back to being one of the best batsmen in the world.

Even just getting him back to a half decent opener will be good enough.

Stokes is too high at 6, Ali is too high at 4.

Back in England i think im going:

Hameed
Cook
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Duckett
Ali
Stokes
Woakes/Wood
Broad
Anderson

Yeah team looks good, though pretty much picks itself at home. Next winter conditions much more friendly for the bowlers so England really need to get some solid form going prior.

Anyone else think, despite the conditions, our seamers were distinctly average in India? Their seamers looked far more potent and they are rank average.

Newbie here....hope it's ok for me to join the convo.

Ali is probably one of the best players of spin in the team (albeit his shot selection and temperament need to improve). Couldn't he be groomed as a proper No.4? The man scored 2 centuries in India and could be a vital cog  in any future South Asian tours.

You are more than welcome, & welcome aboard the blonde madhouse.

Welcome Noose, newbies always welcome.
Personally, I really like Ali down the order. Has a ridic average when batting lower down and having that capable a bat that low seems to help with batting collapses. No sub continent games for a for a fair while either.

bat stokes at 8? averaged over 50 this year in test cricket. Leave duckett out and play wood aswell. thought thats 5 seamers, which seemed a lot. Buttler has done enough to warrant a start in the next test i think.

interesting you say about we'll go back to england and smash sides up on green seamers. What do you think india do?! they come to us/ aussies and get hammered and when we go there its minefield spinners. Its the same thing just the other way round.

Think its a promising side the england team, ashes next winter is the one.

I'd like to see Buttler given the gloves and Bairstow to focus on being the #1 batsman in the world by the end of the year. This lad has resilience, talent and the ability to change gears and we cannot afford for him to keep running out of partners down at 7. Bairstow and Root should be the mainstay of the England middle order for years to come.

hButtler is such a talent and has the ability to change a game within an hour. Yes, he is going to fail sometimes but then again I believe with the batting line up we have we can afford to have a gamble on a potential match winner.

Stoke 6, Buttler 7, Ali 8 and England have a dynamic, game changing lower middle order that can bury tiring attacks.

Rashid has not done enough over the winter to overtake Ali in my opinion so I've stuck with him at 8.

I'd go with :
1. Habib
2. Cook
3. Jennings
4. Root
5. Bairstow
6. Stokes
7. Buttler
8. Ali
9. Wood if fit, otherwise Woakes
10. Broad
11. Anderson

I'd really like to see Root given a few more overs with the ball. I believe he's capable of more than just turning his arm over occassionally.

Do we need a spinner at home? would we not be stronger with an attack of Anderson, Broad, Woakes, Wood and Stokes? Root as a passable option as a spinner. Whenever Moeen is slated the stock response is "he's not a front line bowler, give him a chance". If he isn't a front line bolwer, why are we picking him as a front line bowler on pitches that won't suit?

For me at home he either plays in home tests as a specilaist bat or he doesn't play at all. Averages 40 with the ball at home, if we take out his stunning 1st series v India he averages 50+ with the ball and 2 wickets a game.

+1. The argument against is that the attack becomes "one paced" but I actually don't agree, you've got Anderson who swings the ball, Broad who hits the deck, Woakes who hits the seam, Stokes and Wood who can hit 90+. You are absolutely right imo that Moeen's stats are poor at test level. I've always felt there's only room for one of him or Stokes in the team, not both.

Playing an extra batsman is going to be important  as the batting line up is long but short of experience.

Doesnt really matter because Moee is in the team as a batter anyway, so his bowling is there regardless

He averages about 33 in tests. Not enough to bat at 6 in my opinion. Maybe bat stokes at 7 and then Moeen at 8 in the UK. Especially now teams know to just bowl short against him.

yeah but if you break it down into his recent record, Im pretty sure hes averaged over 60 in tests this year, thats series in SA and 5 tests in India, pretty good that. youd rather have duckett in there instead?

Agreed that he is more dynamic down the order... but can the team afford to have him as a specialist batsman who averages in his 30's? Without spin friendly wickets in home games, his bowling is going to be distinctly part time.

+1. We already have an all rounder in Stokes and a part time spinner in Root so I don't really see what Moeen brings to the team. A young specialist bat like Duckett though makes a lot more sense to me.

I mean it doesn't really matter anyway, we'll beat whoever we play at home then get equally thrashed when we go away :D

Moeen averaged 47 this year in tests, including away in SA and away in India. career stats are misleading, as hes clearly improving. walks into the side as a specialist batter alone at the moment in my opinion

Fair point, i doubt England will drop him anyway.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C06pTeCXAAA6JJO.jpg)

Fewest since 1977 (when just 23 Test played)

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=year;orderbyad=reverse;template=results;type=aggregate;view=year

Not surprising considering the overall increase in attacking batsmanship in Test Cricket over the last 15 years. Creates more time in the game....therefore more results.

Also shows how poor batting is relative to bowling, particularly at staying in.

Brad Hodge on test cricket

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1rPIcNWgAAqhq9.jpg)

Personally I yearn for a few green mambas where every run is hard fought for. The art of bowling has been nullified so much with flatter pitches and bigger bats. Sadly every cricket board is currently complicit in putting money ahead of the beauty of the game, none more so than the BCCI. Just look at the new World Cup format designed to ensure 9 Indian matches. Such a frustrating waste of potential in cricket right now which I can't see changing any time soon.

Has the ODI series piqued anybody's interest? Just saw that India scored 381 in their 50 overs, and briefly reminisced about a time when that would be majorly impressive rather than boring as hell.

England score 360+ twice in 2 games and lose both times, this must be a record?


I do agree, i think its turning into a game of baseball at times and that is a shame. I think thats great for t20 cricket, however, it would be good to see it a it more of a competition in the 50 over game

1.   Regulation changes, with further restrictions on numbers of players outside the circle and two power-play sections in each innings
2.   The use of one ball from each end, a harder/newer ball is easier to hit further
3.   Bat sizes, and bat technology (restrictions on bat sizes are coming)
4.   Transferance of T20 skills into ODIs. People are playing 50-over cricket with a T20 mindset
5.   Boundaries often in for the “TV spectacle”

its moved towards the T20 game when really it should be half way between T20 an a test match, but that is what rights holders (advertising revenue and viewer figures) and the boards want.

Boundary sixes are the main issue I have, a bowler can beat the batsman, make him mis-hit the ball in the air and it still comfortably goes for 6. I don't mind these run-fest's if it produces close finishes like these last 2 have, it's the 350 plays 250ao in 40 overs games when it gets boring.

One positive is that it should (!) mean fielding captains attack for longer. It used to be those middle overs would just be nurdled around at a run a ball and it was a snooze, now you need to keep taking wickets all all times to have any chance of restricting teams. Smith with Australia will often bring back Starc or Cummins for a 2-3 over burst, stick a slip in and really strive for a wicket in the middle overs. McCullum was the same. You can't just sit back and wait for things to happen any more

The only hope that ODI cricket has is that it differentiates between itself and T20 cricket. The more it becomes simply a longer version of T20, the more likely that it will become irrelevant.

England committing cricket at Eden Gardens now the ball's doing something.

They won a game in India  :o

Some final over. England went from 3s on to 3s against in two balls then back to 5s on with a wicket. I don't think India will be giving us a day-night Test in Kolkata.

I am not the biggest fan of Eoin Morgan, but there is no denying his talent and his ability to hit a cricket ball extremely cleanly. Think the problem people/ I have with him is his consistency, and lack of it for sure long periods. He can certainly bat, when hes in form.

7 for 8 in 17 balls

a great collapse today.

correction 8 for 8

119-2 to 127ao

W W . . . W 1 1 1 1 W . 4 W . W W . W

Was it good bowling or 'what time's our flight home' batting?

started off being the first, ended being the second.

Not sure what else you can do when you need 12+ an over

Think it was the latter. As usual Eng went full gung ho too early with little sense of how to play a spinner on that wicket.
Yes the rate was going up but England were actually ok over by over with what India had scored at that time.

Our bowlers were outstanding first two games which hid our batting defects somewhat.

Part of it will come with experience. Facing 200, the rate getting up to 12's etc, we're not used to it, they think the only way to get it is to go mental. The more of our team that go and play in the IPL the better, they'll play in these kind of situations more often and learn how to pace it.

Going forward I'd like Roy to go on once he gets in. I don't mind him going hard in the first 6, when it works its a great asset. But then he struggles to re-adjust and go down a few gears and look to bat through the innings.

Bowling-wise Stokes is pretty expensive in T20's (econ 8.6). He obviously helps the balance of the side but in white-ball cricket I'd prefer him to be our 6th bowler, not a banker for his full quota.

Today was poor but we're still a load more competitive in white ball cricket since the 2015 WC, we'll get there

I think Root's another one who seems to get an easy ride in T20's. Test match and ODI's absolute star but too often he gets to 30/40 and out. I can't remember the last time he was there at the end of an innings. I thought today he was the one to blame, he ate up so many deliveries and put the pressure on Morgs in that he had to play the big shot and then Root goes and gets himself out. Two set batsmen out and the game was pretty much over.

you mean like the first t20 of the series?

Strike rate of 100 in both 1st and 2nd matches and the one to blame imo for the start of the collapse in the final match.

Granted the first match was a walk in the park.

Alistair Cook has resigned, presumably to be replaced by Root

A brilliant batsman, and hopefully he'll be in form and opening for another 5 years plus now

Not a natural captain for me, too cautious, but to do it for 59 tests is some going

Any chance of catching Sachin u reckon? Number 2 seems doable if he stays fit and in form....

Cook is 32

Sachin has 15,900
Cook has 11,057

Lets give Cook another 5 years?

He averages 46. England have 5-6 home tests and 4-5 away tests a calendar year

(2017 has 11. South Africa, Windies and 4 of the 5 ashes tests)

so lets say 10 tests at 46-50 per innings so 960-1000 runs pcy

thats 4800-5000 onto now so he gets ahead of Sachin yes


obviously form, fitness and longevity is unknown but i would have him odds on

I worry that his reasoning for stepping down was he had reservations about "how much he had left in the tank". Obviously he was talking about the captaincy but I can only see him going another couple of years. He's 32 now, Hameed and Keaton look to be up to the task and hopefully they'll progress in the coming years.

How long did Atherton and Hussain stay on as players after giving up the captaincy?

According to wiki, 4 years and 6 months respectively.

Hmmmmmmm, Surprised Athers stayed on that long. I remember Hussain more, where the team had moved on under younger leadership and he felt it was time to bail. Athers showed it's possible though.

I think the captaincy takes a fair bit out of you and without that burden he will start piling on the runs again. I think it could get interesting though if he gets near the record but isn't performing that well. Would they drop him if he was say 500 runs within the record?

Being the middle class posh boy private school type family man i can't see him at the ages of 36/7 grinding long winter tours even if he is in sight of the record.  He looks the type who's motivation will easily drop as well with age.  The absolute runs record isn't a good way to compare batsmen historically anyway.  He hasn't faced anything like the all time great attacks other people on that list have faced throughout their careers.  Secondly he has also played in an era with more and more test matches against generally poorer standard nations.  With an average of 46 surely he wouldn't even be considered in the top 10 test batsmen of all time right?

I would take Gower over Cook straight away both in style and substance given the power house attacks Gower was forced to play against in his era and they have a similar average.  Appreciate Gower never opened however which affects Cook's average.  Slot Cook into that team or Atherton era and how well does he do facing the opening attacks he did?

nowhere near the top 10 of all time

top 50 of all time maybe

You take Gower over Cook in 1985?  So he isn't even a cert to be in the top 50 of all time even with his record?  That is pretty damning about modern day test cricket surely?

no its not meant to be damning

they just play more test cricket, are physically fitter/conditioned with great equipment playing on covered pitches that drain well. its a different game

he's 32 and has played 140 tests

lots of countries want to play england because of the revenue they bring, so England never rest

he could take off the odd winter tour, play for another 5 years and still hit 200 tests


top 10? off the top of my head

Bradman
Lara
Richards
Sachin
Compton
Hutton
G Chappell
Border
Hammond
Ponting

and i will have missed some

Cook isn't in the same postcode as any of those

He's in the same bracket as Gooch, boycott, Gower etc

Fair enough.  Pretty similar points of view to me then.  How high can Root get potentially on the all time list?  Not just runs (obviously he could get to number 1 on that list easily) but where does his style/flair on top of the runs put him potentially in that all time list if he carries on to 32/33 like Cook has.  He seems to have a great mental approach to the game/life so there is no reason to think he will go off the boil other than captaincy ruining him.

i didn't even include Kallis or Dravid or Sangakkara. most of these guys are averaging 55+

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/wi/content/records/223646.html

Root (and steve smith, and amla, and kane williamson) all scope to be regarded as above Cook though players from NZ and SA won't play the volume of games to get into run scoring record charts

Amla has played 100 tests in 13 years, scored 8000 at 50

Racing post said betway were 3/1 he breaks the record.

Where are you putting KP in the English list?

averages 47. similar bracket to boycott, gooch, gower, cook

below the hobbs, hammond, hutton, compton greats of eras past who played far less test matches but all average 50-57

i know you have to park it in the bottom draw for 5 years but i think thats more than a fair price

this is what he said yesterday

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4IcKcXWEAAVajM.jpg)

...and it is a double with betway still existing in 5 years.  Price seems about right to me with margin.  Wouldn't be looking to take 2/9 he doesn't break the record but wouldn't be in a rush to take the 3/1 either tbh.

pleased to see we have appointed a genuine celeb as our new captain

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4lCXdCWYAA5zZJ.jpg)

Ben Stokes £1.7 mill in the IPL  :o. Some other English bowler I've never heard of for £1.4 mill, Eoin Morgan £240k.....

Stokes is a the most ever for an overseas player, joining MS Dhonis team, so he's done well! I would assume they'd be favourites. (Along with Steve Smith, faf du plessis)

Mills was 1.4, played a few internationals for us, against India this last month which probably helped his value!, I don't follow the league so couldn't tell you much morr about him.

Soaked went for over a mill too.

Dhoni's team were 2nd bottom last year (had injuries to key players though). They are one of the newer franchises so they may have needed time to gel.

Miles has the best death bowling figures around the world in recent T20 franchise cricket. He joins a strong team though, with Gayle, ABDV, Watson and Starc the 4 overseas guns. He'll be available for the entire tournament, so that would have been a boost for his chances.

Surprised Woakes went for that much. He could be a direct replacement at KKR for Andre Russell, who's serving a drugs violation ban.

Jason Roy has just got picked up. He was good in the WT20 in India last year and is having a good PSL comp at the moment, but he joins a team with McCullum, Dw.Smith and Finch in their ranks so he may be a bench character.

Morgan's got similar issues, he joins Kings Xi who have Miller, Maxwell and Shaun Marsh in their top order so he may only be a bit-part player.

Never having heard of Mills just shows your ignorance of any cricket bar England test team. He played the last 3 T20 internationals that England played.
I've seen a fair bit of Mills play as he plays for Sussex, his slower ball is basically unpickable. Surprised by ho much he went for, but he is available for the whole tournament as only plays T20s. Also plays them all over the world, so quite experienced in them.
Jordan going for £60,000 is an absolute bargain. Again he likely available for most of the tournament.

It's true, I do only mostly care about English test cricket. Throw in the big T20 tournaments and that's it for me, no reason I would have heard of him otherwise. I would bet a fair few others have never heard of him also....

hmmm, anyone into cricket has heard of Mills, destroyed Gayle in T20 season just gone,

BS I go to quite a few games every year, follow it in the news tv etc and consider myself a fairly big cricket fan, I just don't follow T20 in other parts of the world, and if he's only played a handful of T20's for England he'd be easy to miss.

I won't be the only one either, bet you some of the lads who come to games with me and 'follow cricket' have never heard of him either....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J_b2qDkQrg

If somebody could sort the links, cheers


EDIT - Link sorted.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J_b2qDkQrg

Obviously Not everyone is an expert and knows everything like you....

Whatever

How much of these sums - what % - goes to the player? Put another way, what will, say, Ben Stokes be paid for this gig?

£1.7m less agents fees

for someone like Mills, whose career was limited to T20 by his back injury, a life changer (and he's worked really hard on his T20 skills to make a career out of T20 only)

Crikey.

Cricket has changed beyond recognition in the last 20 or 30 years.

Did this limited over stuff all begin with the John Player League & Gillette Cup back in the 70's?

Helmets? What them?

1963 Gillette Cup 60 overs a side

Players played it like a test. 190 off 60 overs was a good score and frequently won

Sunday John player cup from 68 i think, 40 overs a side

benson and hedges 55 overs then 50 overs a side around 1970?

an age that has gone now.

1963? Jeez, never realised it was that long ago. The John Player League was hugely popular on BBC2 on Sunday afternoons as I recall.

190 off 60 overs? Crazy times. Boycott would not have excelled.

What would be a good comparable score in 20 or 40 over cricket today if there were no fielding or bowling restrictions (perhaps one bouncer per over) and a legside ball wasn't called a wide?

130 and 275?

One of my first cricketing memories was the 1979 world cup final and watching Brearley and Boycott plod along at about 3 runs an over in pursuit of the Windies 290 odd. Unsurprisingly once they were out the inevitable collapse took place as I'd imagine the run rate must have been astronomical!

and they played with a red ball? and no free hits etc

interesting questions. 150 and 275 maybe?

possibly higher. you also have to consider bat technology and player conditioning. the bats are bigger, you can edge for 6! the players are fitter, bigger and stronger too..though obviously that applies to bowlers as well

over and above that the unorthodox shot making would presumably find a way to adapt to no field restrictions etc

And let's not forget the first ever World Cup match in 1975 when, chasing England's 334 in 60 overs, India finished on 132-3 with Sunil Gavaskar scoring 36 not out from 174 balls.

Tony Greig let England down by going for 2.88 runs per over...

It was printed in a local Indian newspaper that"England won but could not get Gavaskar's wicket."(in Hindi)

mainly due to outside leg stump bowling from the bowlers, which is considered wide in ODI these days but at 5-5 he couldn't reach a lot of the balls bowled

Tymal Mills is in line for £3431 a ball if he bowls 4 overs in every game (17 matches) he plays in the IPL.

Thats crazy money! Good luck to the lad!

It's pro rota, so will get £1.7 if he plays all the games, which is unlikely due to England 1 day schedule, but should be available for most of the games.
Mills only plays T20 so is available for all games.

I'd assume mills would get Rested a little throughout the tournament. He's played quite a bit recently in New Zealand,  Australia and Pakistan franchise leagues as well as for England. You'd hope they'd be mindful and give him the odd game off. Apparently starc isn't available for rcb so he's there main weapon now, bowling at the chinnaswarmy (tiny boundaries) as his home ground will be a great learning curve for him.

England have confirmed Stokes, Woakes and Buttler can miss Ireland series and return from IPL on May 14.

Morgan, Roy, Billings back May 1st

Mills and Jrdan available for the whole shebang

Surely Root is streets ahead in terms of talent.... just needs to prove himself over a decade or so which is never a given.

i was very sceptical at first, and am happy to admit i was wrong!
But my what a seriously fine cricketer chris woakes has turned into!!

India v Aus test series atm - Is that just highlighting ho ordinary Englands spin bowling is?

The pitches have been a fair bit more receptive, but they've certainly out-bowled Ali and Rashid so far.

promising sign for the next batch coming through

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/story/1085634.html

Yeah I saw that. O'Keefe and Lyon both ply their trade there too so McGill must be doing something right. England need to get more players into grade cricket in the winter.

Herath just broke Vettori's record for most test wickets by a left arm spinner. Reckon he is a better bowler or just bowling on a load of helpful pitches?

Definitely the latter and it's not even close imo

Vettori was quite a defensive bowler eh? Would be a far better white ball bowler. Can't compare tests as pitches are obviously polar opposites.

Herath just seems to have been really underestimated for a long time. His record is excellent.

Brilliant but different bowlers. Vettori built pressure, Herath tries to take a wicket with every ball. This is a product of their respective environments where one played most of his cricket on greentops and the other on dustbowls. I'd pick Herath for tests and Vettori for ODI's.

I'm sure If Vettori had played 70% of his career on minefields in the sub continent then he would have takes stacks.
Like saying who's better, Lara or Tendulkar for the same reason. Lara wins hands down I think

But Tendulkar scored all around the world too?

I've just had a look - Tendulkar averaged 53 at home in Tests and 55 away whereas Lara was 59 at home and 48 away, so it's Tendulkar who travels better - he averages more in both England and Australia than he does in India. I was surprised by this.

Nice article in The Guardian about Haseeb Hameed.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/mar/19/batman-begins-meet-haseeb-hameed-english-crickets-rising-star

Ben Stokes having a good inning right now in the IPL, SS3

Jos Buttler SS3 now...

Anyone seen this new leggie from Afghanistan?

Yh I've seen him play for Afghanistan he's good but was suprised he got an ipl gig especially when imran Tahir wasn't picked up in auction,but he's started the ipl

Afghan's have a good team, they will be a match against a weakened windies side this summer. Nabi hasn't got a gig yet for Sunrisers but he's a capable all-rounder as well. Shahzad the keeper-batsman is dangerous, and they're scrappers.

Tahir is/was ranked number 1 bowler in both ODi and T20I so it was very weird he didn't get picked up. His IPL record wasn't great though, but even still you think someone would have took a punt. RPSG got lucky.

The difference between Tahir and the 18 year old leggie is that the boy is supposed to be an excellent fielder... something that Tahir is decidedly not :)

Tahir isn't a good fielder but a wicket taker which is that you need in t20

Few injury doubts totting up for England's seamers. Jimmy been struggling, back playing now. Both Broad and Ball out of RL final. Woakes still injured from CT. That leaves Wood, who's always one game away from having an ankle injury. even Stokes has had injury niggles throughout the year.

Sounds like broad might play on Saturday and thankfully Jimmy has had some game time before next week and wood Is actually fit for once,I think ball would have come into the equation too if he hadn't picked up his injury this week.Big question is who comes into the batting line up England obviously thinking about going back to ballance not sure that's a good idea after last year even with his form this season.
C

cricket back on terrestial

BBC get the T20 final, 10 matches and other stuff for 2020-24

skysports beat off BT to retain tests and ODIs

Nice to see hopefully it will have desired effect of getting people into the game they already have me on the hook

Nice....is the World cup included in this?

No it isn't but BBC seem to get lots of digital content now

Not just saying this because we're already 2 down, but I really don't understand the selection of Dawson. We already have 4 fast bowlers and a spinner so what does he bring to the side exactly? Why not select a batsman?

i think its the 8th time in the last calendar year we've been 50-3 or worse first up.

still a couple of places to be cemented in the top six for me

cook
? jennings or whovever (stoneman?)
? ballance on his last chance this series (malan?)
root
bairstow
stokes
ali

could easily as said above pick another bat and put ali 8 and use ali/stokes as 4th/5th bowlers

From TMS twitter

In the last three years and in 64 innings, England have lost their third wicket for 55 runs or less 23 times.

6 bowlers is over kill. Either Ali or Dawson can bowl some cheap overs of spin and bat 8. A better balance to the side would be gubbins / stoneman up top, jennings 3 and ballance down at 5 where he's been getting his runs.

I don't like Ballance in the team, someone like Stoneman or Malan should probably be getting a chance.
Think Stokes should come in higher up the order. Batting stronger than bowling anyway and cannot see his knee problems going away. Should probably be used as a strike bowler, where he seems most effective anyway.
Agree about Dawson though, didn't need picking for this match

Think you have to pick Balllance if selectors want to show they value county cricket. he's averaged 100+ in div 1 cricket this year. The issue I had with Ballance is he's got those runs at 5, batted 4 for the Lions, throwing him in at 3 isn't the correct decision for either the team or for him personally. Dawson is a nothing selection for me (watch him take a 5-for now!) so I'd have picked a proper top-order batsman at 3 (Rocky or Gubbins but others have claims), Ballance to 5 etc etc. You still have 5 bowlers with Root as a 2nd spinner. Bairstow or Stokes down at 7 and Ali down at 8 is a bit of a luxury but we've been 3-30 so often in the past 24 months so it would be my way of going until we shore up that top order.

I think having two genuine all rounders in Ali and Stokes means England can think outside the box a little bit.

Heard Atherton talking about Ben Foakes being the 'best wicket-keeper in the world'. No-one could argue that Bairstow is a genuine test batsman who would more than get into the team as a specialist. I think his technique and ability to be flexible in the way he approaches batting makes him an ideal #3. Can dig in, can accelerate, good against both pace and spin........ just a tremendous batsman.

What about dropping Dawson for the 'best wicket-keeper in the world' ( not seen too much of him personally but Atherton is a pretty shred journalist in my opinion) and playing YJB as a specialist batsmen at 3, Ballance at 5, Stokes 6, Ali 7. Think the team would be far better balanced?

14 wickets to spin for England,10 for Moeen

14 matches a record stretching back to 1972

win the toss on a dry pitch,make a score and let the pitch do the rest

This.....

Not too sure about Balance though.

I originally thought that with Rabada banned, then Morris would come in and take his place and that would be it.

Then I saw this somewhere else:

"Rabada can't play, which means Phehlukwayo must come into the team to have 2 African players. This puts SA short of a strike bowler, which means either Morris or Olivier also has to come in, with either of Kuhn or De Bruyn, having to drop out.

Faftastic will rejoin the team which means both of the 2 mentioned above drops out, leaving you with the predicament of who will open with Elgar. In all likelihood it will be De Kock, which is non-ideal because of his keeping responsibility.

Also because of the great quota policy that useless Duminy gets to keep his place in the team."

I'm wondering if there could be an angle here for a bet. If De Kock does open, and goes off like he did in the second innings at Lords, could he be worth a tinkle at 6/1 for Top SA Bat 2nd Test?

Interesting angle. Certainly in limited overs cricket getting wind of a middle order batsman who's likely to open often means a good value price, not sure if that transfers to test cricket.

De Kock has opened in 1 test match so far, making 50's in both innings and winning the MOTM award (his only MOTM in 20 tests) so that alone would make me have a go at the 6/1 i reckon, and probably have a dart at the MOTM if the odds were big enough.

Team for the next test:
Cook, Jennings, Westley, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Moeen, Dawson/Malan, Broad, Anderson, Wood/Roland-Jones

Great that Westley has been given a chance.  Would have preferred Stoneman over Jennings but can see the logic behind giving him 1 or 2 more tests so no problem with that decision.  No idea how Malan gets picked ahead of Sam Robson.  Finally, what the fuck is Dawson still doing in the squad... either pick Rashid or play the extra batsman

have to play the extra batsman (even if it is the expansive malan)

4 seamers plus moeen is fine.

dawson is aluxury we can't afford

Welcome back, it's been way too long since you last posted.

Post more please.

I agree...  No idea why Bayliss is so insistent that playing the extra batsman is a luxury that takes away responsibility from the top 6.  It adds a lot more value to this team than a half decent bowler that can bat a bit - can always use Root for a few overs a game if needs be (and more often than not he won't be needed).  Stokes at 7, Ali at 8 and Woakes (when fit) at 9 makes for a very strong lower-middle order and all are good enough as part of a 5 man attack. 


Thanks - i'll certainly try!

Westley bowls off spin hasn't bowled as much in the last 18 months as he used do so root doesn't need to bowl,I know what bayliss is trying to say is basically the top 7 should be doing much better and Ali really is a bit too good to bat at 8 but for the moment it's way forward playing the extra batter I personally wouldn't have chosen malan

tomorrow the 100th test here

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFm13ftXsAEQPbR.jpg)

Cricket is on the verge of making its application for Olympic inclusion.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jul/25/cricket-on-verge-making-application-olympic-inclusion?CMP=share_btn_tw

The boy done good today! Very much your classic line and lengther.

You'd never see footballers doing this...

Stuart Broad

#morningcommute #london Off to the Test! 🏏🚃

Hope the rain continues... SA under pressure in this test.

aggers gets boycott

a very good wind up!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05b5j5t

;)

Like a bunch of school kids who have been naughty.

Love Aggers, love TMS.

"You've invited me under false pretences "

Brilliant  ;D

Listened to this a couple of times, very funny. Aggers and Andrew (the scorer) play their roles excellently.

Feel like we(SA) going to get pummelled again.

The Bairstow not out on review was scandalous. Mistakes happen all time, I'm comfortable with that. This was a strange and poor one though.

superb picture from yesterday

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGd2l-RXUAAJMLG.jpg)

MoeenAli becomes the first player EVER to score 250+ runs and take 25+ wickets in a 4 match series

What are peoples views on team for next test?
For me Malan comes out, Stokes, Bairstow and Ali all move up a place and Woakes comes back in at 8
Also drop Jennings, with a view for him to get back in the runs at County, probably give Stoneman his chance at 2

Hales at 5

v the west indies, in great form, pick him while he is hot

stoneman to open

trying to find numbers 2,3,5 to go with cook, root for the ashes

--

cook
stoneman
westley (worth sticking with)
root
hales
stokes
bairstow
ali
three of woakes/roland jones/broad/anderson depending who you want to rest/rotate

don't think you need 8 batters and especially not against the WI but can see we will go that way at Brisbane etc so stick with it i expect

Is it weird that I'd go with Rory Burns over his opening partner Stoneman?

Such a shame that Hameed has lost his way at Lancs. He looked to have the temperament and technique for test cricket but can't buy a run at the moment.

Hameed made his first FC fifty this season yesterday. Still not enough to get back in though. I agree with Tighty's team, with preference for Woakes/Broad/Jimmy as the seamer's

I just hope we don't go back to Dawson. Patently obvious that Mooen is more than sufficient as a number 1 spinner. How has Duckett progressed this summer?

Has Hales addressed the issues he had in his first run in the team as an opener. The danger of course is he gets runs vs the considerably weaker WI attack and then comes unstuck against the talented pace attack of the Aussies in the Winter.

Having said that, there aren't many people screaming out for selection. I still like Atherton's idea of playing Bairstow as a specialist batsmen at 5 and bringing in Foakes as a specialist keeper. With Moeen and Stokes genuine world class all-rounders, I feel we can afford that luxury.

going in 5 as opposed to facing the new ball will be a lot easier for Hales. On paper 5-8 of Hales, Stokes, Bairstow and Ali looks ideal to take the game away from teams, but the way the top order has gone Hales will be joining Root at the crease with us 30-3!

Bairstow now into the top 10 batsman in ICC world rankings, so moving him to 5 and giving someone else the gloves would be fine also.

Duckett - averaging a bit less than 40 in Div 2 isn't going to get him noticed really. I would see him as someone who'll be in and around our white-ball squads for now, not tests.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHdIcKiXgAAIyNJ.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHdPT9IXUAAzpLA.jpg)

The tale of two West Indies Test XIs http://es.pn/2v46sdJ

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHsPrsuVwAAcKox.jpg)

Jofra Archer is a hell of a player. Will be a fixture in the England team from 2020 onwards I reckon. Replaces Broad full time when he finally hangs them up.

Couple of coaches I have spoken to around Sussex have said he is already on their radar and they are keen to get him in the England team before the Windies do

Plus he can bat too very easy looking pace too heard the story the other day how Sussex come across him by accident

How many of the ciurrent West Indies team would get into the XI if everyone was available?

Chase, Gabrial and maybe Roach?

So sad to see both the West Indies and Sri Lanka play so poorly.

With the administration of the game in both situations, improvement does not seem likely in the near future.

19 times in 65 innings in the last 3 years England have been at least 3 down for 50 runs

Today's play was... Interesting. Did not see that coming.

I like to watch cricket by wouldn't have any great knowledge. Is 2/1 the Windies not a very good price? Should they not be favs at this point?
https://www.oddschecker.com/cricket/england-v-west-indies/2nd-test/winner

we've discovered one batsman in 5 years

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIJVyiJXcAUmnqa.jpg)

Meanwhile Australia are 18-3 against Bangladesh

Shocking that isn't it to be fair borthwick was picked a bowler at the time,nobody has nailed the batting places available to me root should be batting at 3.

I am a Yorkshireman and a huge Root fan and I also think he should bat at 3, I know he prefers to bat at 4 but the best thing for the team has to be him coming in at number 3.

At worcester,R Ashwin ismaking his debut

guess what sort of pitch he rocked up to?

yup

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DITofYrWAAENIcg.jpg)

Worcester win the toss and bat. Funny that

If you are not already watching, turn on the Test match. Great game in progress.

If these two can knock the runs off, the tabloid punster headline writers will have a field day with Chase and Hope. 😎

Chase out, but Hope remains.

Jeez, Blackwood lost the plot completely that over.

Not sure if Blackwood is a genius, or an idiot.

The new ball was taken and given to Jimmy Anderson. Very first ball, Blackwood knocks it straight back over Anderson's head for six......

They don't hang about on Wiki.

Within a minute of Hope scoring his century, Wiki noted......


"On the 29th August 2017 Hope became the first batsmen to score a century in each innings at Headingley in a First Class game, in a test victory against England.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shai_Hope


A little early to say this though.....

in a test victory against England

Oh my, oh my.

Seen in context, that was sport at its finest.

Well deserved victory,typical England though good the bad usually followed by another good one

The year is 2037

"...of course, we haven't seen an attacking declaration from Joe Root since that Headingley Test of 2017..."

And now Bangladesh turn over Australia in another thriller.

The supposed corpse of Test cricket twitches.

Bangladesh Test cricket: maiden wins over three teams!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIdwFLKVYAIPDsN.jpg)

I never watched yesterday's game, but I'm curious as to "what if?".

Bairstow was on exactly 100 not out, & then Stokes thrashed a 6 to end the game.

Did Stokes have the chance to end the game when Bairstow was on 97? If he did, would he have taken it, & denied Bairstow his 100?

The game was dead by then, of course.

I'm just curious if Stokes would have deliberately spurned easy runs to allow Bairstow to get the ton.  

Stokes actually smashed a six with about 10-12 runs to go and then got a single to give Bairstow the strike when he was on 97. It was probably a case of 'there you go son nows your chance', I reckon if he got the strike back he might block out a couple to end an over or get a single to give Bairstow the strike but I doubt he would mess around forever. Thing is in last nights game they were so far ahead it didn't really matter, in a tighter game they would just go for the win and not even give the century a second thought.

I see Samuels was caught behind off Stokes bowling.

Were there any "afters"?


(http://i.imgur.com/SpZmUMh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/SpZmUMh)

No-one has done that kind of craic since Thorpe robbed Alex Tudor of a ton as a nightwatchman  :o

Another fav of mine was Athers declaring with Hick on 98* in an Ashes test down under :-)

No afters from Stokes when he got Samuels this time ... on his best behaviour

ECB confirm stokes arrested in early hours of Monday morning. Hales helping police with enquiries

Stokes misses last two ODI v WI with hand injury.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKph-ZLWAAESMeO.jpg)

Ugh. Just when everything was going so well.

Ashes squad announced tomorrow

i will take a crack at it

Cook
Stoneman
Jennings

Root
Malan
Vince (only because it has been leaked)
Ballance

Stokes

Bairstow
Foakes

Ali
Crane

Anderson
Broad
Woakes
Wood (if fit)
Plunkett

(TRJ assume not fit)


positions 2,3,5 still terrifying.

I’d put Hales in for the weakest one you are worried about there.

If Stokes were to be charged with some offence, and bailed to appear in court in, say, December, would he still be selected for the Ashes tour?

The way Warne flies constantly back and forth (like a taxi)...I suppose missing for a few days would be quite doable and necessary  :)

....and stolen from twitter :D


Someone should've told Ben Stokes it isn't compulsory to have a criminal record to get into Australia these days

No idea what vince has done to get a recall like, and Ballance will be fodder on those pitches with extra bounce. 3 and 5 look like worrying spots, and given the ball doesn't swing much out there our bowling is very "samey". If they have any bowlers fit I expect a damn good thrashing!

As a Hampshire/Vince fan, he hasn't really done anything to justify a recall to test cricket although his T20 form has been good.

IF he gets the call, maybe its just a lack of stand out alternatives....and a second chance to an unfulfilled talent?

The Lions are touring Australia at the same time, would not be surprised to see one of those players end up playing in the Ashes. Mason Crane feels like a good candidate for that, especially given the winter he had playing grade cricket last year.

Leaked again: Root, Cook, Stoneman, Malan, Ballance, Vince, Moeen, Crane, Foakes, Bairstow, Stokes, Woakes, Broad, Anderson, Ball, Overton.

Australia big favs for the Ashes imo. Batting looks very light. Bowling too similar. Pace and bounce needed in Aus.  A Plunkett type of bowler would have been ideal, but he already knew he wasn't getting picked and is concentrating on limited overs, has already signed T20 contract elsewhere.

Would have Crane either with Lions or back playing grade cricket. Absolutely no point in someone his age being waterboy for two months.

Looks like Vince is in due to how poor the batting has been, gonna be a long winter tour

Would love to see them take a shot on Hamed - started to look more like his old self towards the end of the season and has the temperament to be the long term successor to Strauss we have been searching for.

Also think our woes at 5 would be resolved by moving Bairstow there and bringing in Foakes ( who is also no slouch with the bat - look at his first class average!). He is an outstanding gloveman and with no disrespect to Bairstow would add value in that aspect. Bairstow is more than good enough to bat at 5 as a specialist batsman and would bolster our betting slightly.

A middle order of Bairstow, Stokes, Moeen, Foakes, Woakes would be sensational!

Who bats at 3?

Haeed has one main shot,the forward prop.

he'd get broken in australia on hard bouncy pitches, fingers, ribs the lot.

going to be a good player but needs to be more of an all courter before he is sent to open in Australia

Hameed is injured I think so not in contention....

The media chatter suggests that Ben Stokes injured his hand in that Bristol melee, & that he has already had an x-ray to assess the damage.

We have no idea at this stage if Stokes has any guilt in the matter, but one thing we can be sure of is that Stokes must be feeling pretty dreadful right now. His Ashes tour, as well as his career, may be hanging in the balance.

Interesting how a small subset of extremely gifted sportsmen always seem to have that streak of mischief & malfeasance in them.

broken finger on a spicy pitch.funny that.

I like the idea of moving Bairstow up to 5 and playing him as a batsman.

Tighty - where do you stand on the Root at #3 debate?

Root 3 bairstow 5 foakes 7 for me. Stokes at 6. That looks a stonger team than one with vince AND Malan to me. Argument against is root will often be in within half an hour batting three, against the new ball but i reckon he often will be at 4 in this team anyway!

Roots agent speaks. I do dislike Vaughan peddling pr while meant to be an unbiased commentator though

I think Root at 3 for me.

Also same company as Vince ... thinks he should bat 3 because he can put a half volley away. Good luck getting any of them off Hazlewood  ::)

Amazing so many have decided the result of he Ashes but nobody mentions the abilities of the Australian team even on home soil.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/cricket/4563431/ben-stokes-england-axe-shocking-video-street-punch#

Even more reason to keep him in to scare the Aussies  :D

Get him in the ring with Warner  rotflmfao

First part is " defensible".... I suggest he's got a problem with the ongoing fight and finally hitting someone with their hands down .

Oh wow, he's going down. That's affray. They must have paid a fortune for that video, Stokes will be sued to high heaven. I can't see how he can say that's self defence.

Gonna cost him six figures in pay-offs, lawyers and lost earnings. I bet so many of his opponents are loving it because he's a dick to most of them constantly.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKwj0wIX0AAZs2U.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKwvl9hXUAASBMI.jpg)

I was so looking forward to seeing Stokes square up to the Aussies, but it's looking doubtful now. Bugger bugger bugger.

Selfishly perhaps, but I hope he gets away with it.

Perhaps playing devils advocate but something else to perhaps consider.

Hales apparently was one of the men in the video, and according to some albeit iffy sources, allegedly, he may have been the guy that had two punts at that bloke's head on the floor. Which imo is worse than all of what Stokes did.

It's him alright. Look at his terrible trainers :-).

Wasn't the bloke on the floor holding onto Stokes at the time though? Also you can see the bottle. I don't think anyone's decision making was at a high level though.

For sure, he's gonna need a good legal team onside.

If the Court Case can be delayed, by fair means or foul, could he still go to Australia? Don't think the ECB can punish him until proven guilty, can they?

KP shit stirring, obviously doesn't think much of Hales.

'How are they reporting that Alex Hales is trying to be the peace maker here?
He REPEATEDLY KICKS the guy in the head on the ground?!
He should come out of this worse IMO!'

Stokes has told friends: 'The guy had a bottle in his hand & was threatening us, was I supposed to wait until he smashed it in my face?'

 Ben Stokes intervened to help two gay guys who were being abused by yobs, one of whom was armed with a bottle.

BREAKING: Ben Stokes to be re-interviewed by Avon & Somerset police under caution, in next few days.

Both players suspended from international cricket until further notice......  ;frustrated;

He’s fucked now.....  :o :o

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4929800/Shocking-footage-shows-Ben-Stokes-foul-mouthed-outburst.html

How can we tell if he is laughing with Harvey or taking the piss?    All he appears to be doing is repeating what Harvey said.  Sure half a dozen people repeated it to me soon after, and I didn't think any of them were having a go at Harvey.  Dare say the Mail repeated it too...

We all say things privately for a laugh or to shock that, if shown to a wider audience, would be pretty much indefensible. I might ban him for being grossly stupid and filming it

Well I don’t give a shit either way, I selfishly want him to play come hell or high water. I’m certainly not innocent either when it comes to saying piss poor stuff for a bit of banter.

I was pretty sure the professional offence takers would be all over it like a rash, time will tell I guess.....

Anyone know when the Lions squad is selected? All I can see on the ECB site is past squads/fixtures

Pretty sure I read somewhere that it will be announced on Monday.

PS - the ECB website is not great, is it?

Cheers Tikay

No the ECB site isn't very good.
I'm a bit of a stats geek for cricket and cricinfo is great for that, but ECB really should sort out their online stuff. Went on their twitetr page this morning and saw a ginger player on front pic and thought 'fk me that's bold of them having Stokes on the front', then realised it was Bairstow from last nights game :)

I now gather it will be Wednesday.

Let's agree on "soon".

Really, that sort of info should be easily available on the ECB site. It really is dreadful.

Would like to have seen Archer get a call up but is ineligible for 5 more years

Steven Finn has been added to England's Ashes squad. Ben Stokes won't travel "at this stage". More to follow

Stokes retains central contact and further decision on his availability for Australia will be taken at a later date

Ben Stokes praised by couple ‘after defending them from homophobic thugs’

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4784329/ben-stokes-praised-by-gay-couple-after-defending-them-from-homophobic-thugs

This was mentioned quite soon after, but I'm not sure it makes much difference, in the eyes of the law.

A couple of years ago ,the brother of someone I used to work with , was in a fight against a friend outside a pub, and one punch he threw, tragically killed his friend.
The defendant also broke a bone in his hand....which the judge mentioned as evidence that real force was used.
Interestingly, he appealed his 5 year manslaughter sentence, on the basis that a video of him fighting with a friend should not have been included in evidence.
He lost that appeal.

I can't see how Stokes will not be prosecuted, and receive a fine/ small community sentence.

Squad newly arrived at the WACA

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNh8k1CWAAAYKLx.jpg)

If you're good at cricket, you get a seat. Everyone else has to stand.

This is more the Sun saying "don't blame us for losing the Ashes".

On which note, any news or whispers as to how the Stokes case is developing?

I so want him to be there for the Ashes.

Swap woakes and Finn and you're about bang on!

England got a good chance overall? I've got tickets for the Adelaide test but don't follow cricket tbh.

Your weekend reading sorted... ➡️ http://ow.ly/x4ZD30glM7A

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNx0T3NXUAAZ9O6.jpg)

very jealous, its a great stadium by all accounts and the atmosphere will be electric

englands chances?

i would say im generally a very optimistic england fan. I think the series comes down to cook and root, both or one of them needs to emulate what cook did in 2010/11.
i think the bowling will go fine, as their batting can massively rely on smith and warner. and the middle order of Jonny B and Ali (stokes maybe) will score runs. It comes down to how the fragile top 5 plays starc. He can leak runs and often sprays it around a bit

what do we think the side will be for the Gabba? i have a horrible feeling that they will go with Ballance

My side would be.... (assuming Stokes is not there)

Cook
Stoneman
Vince (scored runs in the warm up and plays well off the back foot, plus lengthens the order with root staying at 4)
Root (c)
Malan
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Ball
Broad
Anderson


If Stokes was there I would swap him for Malan and Foakes comes in to keep instead of ball

Thoughts?

Steven Finn will miss the remainder of England’s tour of Australia after scans revealed that he has a torn left knee cartilage.
 
The Middlesex seamer sustained the injury during practice last week in Perth and will now return to the UK in the 48 hours where he will meet a knee specialist to ascertain whether he will have an operation.
 
England will announce his replacement for the rest of the tour in due course.

Good news imo! Think he's useless!

Replacements? Plunkett surely? Adds something on Aussie wickets

They have gone with Tom Curran.

Curran looks like he has a bit about him, based on the white ball stuff I've seen of him. Big step up though, and behind the likes of Overton and Ball in the pecking order.

Some pretty decent bowling figures from Suranga Lakmal for SL against India this morning.

Six overs, six maidens, three for none.

Beteveryday have an early payout on Ashes matches.

If the team you backlead by 100 or more after the first innings, they'll pay you out as a winner.

That's very decent isn't it?

Yes very good. Excellent if your side wins the toss and bats as they are likely to do every game except possibly Adelaide for the pink ball test

The Australian Test selectors have lost it, writes Gideon Haigh (probably the best of the Aussie writers)

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/opinion/gideon-haigh/an-ashes-team-that-raises-more-questions-than-answers/news-story/4afe108ce5e57c6432fcf25564021d80

Any chance we could copy and paste this as I cannot seem to access this article without signing up for a subscription to an Australian newspaper.

Ball or Overton for the final test spot then?

Ball gets the nod

England team: Alastair Cook, Mark Stoneman, James Vince, Joe Root (capt), Dawid Malan, Jonny Bairstow (wk), Moeen Ali, Chris Woakes, Stuart Broad, Jake Ball, James Anderson.

Is it tonight?

The 4th seamer might not have much of an impact, but don't agree with Ball over Overton. Overton was decent in warm-ups, *should* contribute more with the bat (3 ducks on tour so far suggests not haha) and ball could be under-done from a lack of cricket.

Yup, starts at Midnight I think.

Aaahhhh, fk I’m knackered, might have to get a few zzzzz now....   ;sleep;

We're gonna get humped arnt we.

BT sport...not Sky this time.

Have to say I prefer sky commentary team compared to BT Sports. Found Boycott especially annoying on commentary.

England's day by a short head?

196/4 good for us, given we are normally 60/3. Longer tail without Stokes, but think we would have taken that first up.

Yep, satisfactory. Very slow pitch, will be interesting to see if it quickens up tomorrow. Old fashioned day of test cricket today.

they need to follow the richie benaud, dan maskell maxim of let the pictures do the talking.much too much babble

i was dozing away to TMS instead of the TV after an hour

I like Graeme Swann (as a cricketer and a character) but just couldn't put up with him chuckling mid sentence at his own jokes for too long!

(still better than the horrendous Tufnell though)

Very quick turnaround, gone from 4/240 to 9/286 in an hour or so.

England lose their last 6 wickets for 58 -- the 13th successive time in completed innings in Brisbane they've lost their last 6 wickets for under 100 (a sequence which began in Nov 1990).

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;ground=209;groupby=innings;home_or_away=2;opposition=2;orderby=start;partnership_wicketmin1=6;partnership_wicketval1=partnership_wicket;size=200;team=1;template=results;type=fow

The Gabba becomes a graveyard which is oddas that doesn't suit their quicks at all

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPUdVuNWkAIbvbM.jpg)

Is it 11.30 or 12 start tonight? Cant seem to find it anywhere....

I think it's 11.58 - there's one over to make up.

"That the toughest sledging you've had Mark." Australian press

"What? Today?"

"Yes, from the players and the fans. The Gabba."

"Do you know the North East of England?"

"No."

"Well I'll take you for a Sunday game in the North East League. You'll not ask me that again"

Stoneman

What sort of lead do England need to have a reasonable chance here? What are typical 4th Innings scores in Test Matches at the Gabba?

Fourth innings scores at Brisbane - this is quite an un-Brisbane pitch though so past form may not be as reliable an indicator as usual.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;ground=209;innings_number=4;orderby=team_score;template=results;type=team;view=innings

Thanks Andrew.

The odds seem to have swung too far in the Aussies favour, to my eye.

Australia are generally 4/9, England 9/2, Draw 11/2.

9/2 represents value, does it not?

Just must be.  Third innings must have higher scores than fourth on average.  I know we are two down, but not nearly convinced that justifies the odds difference.

I think 9/2 definitely worth a bet in my humble opinion, especially with Root still there.l

You can get 6.0 on betfair, which is even better. 

Encouraged by the response, I've had a modest wager on England on Betfair Exchange at 6.2.

Good odds, I put a bit on last night at 3/1 when it was looking more in the balance.

Ouch.

What an anti-climax that was.

England appeared to have come up 30 or 40 runs short in their 2nd innings, but as things turned out, they were probably 200 shy of what was needed.

It seemed a very low key and lethargic day in the field by England.

Now they have to re-group before the 2nd Test. And Bristol and Avon Constabulary need to get a shift on and make a decision on Mr Stokes.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPh1H1PUMAAf08v.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPhzCzoV4AAkylr.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPh2RNvX4AA13IU.jpg)

Highest batting average as a captain in Tests: Steve Smith, Virat Kohli, and Kane Williamson in the top five

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPhpUuRWkAAavgY.jpg)

That was the most fearsome fast bowling attack I've seen since the West Indies team of the late 70s and early 80s.

And according to the experts day 3 and 4 was when batting should have been easiest on that pitch.

England have zero shot of winning this series unless a couple of them get injured.

or for Tikay to say something like that?

Come on Tikay, declare the series over.  Give us some hope.

I was sleeping for much of it, but they are 5th in the World and a fair few of our batsmen got going.  It feels a bit premature to put them that high.   

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#BREAKING The ECB is investigating reports English batsman Jonny Bairstow headbutted Australian batsman Cameron Bancroft in Perth earlier this month.

Fk me, you aint watched much cricket since then. That's a very ordinary attack, even when just compared with Australian attacks since that period.

I just assumed he was being sarcastic, if not he couldn’t be further out of touch with cricket...

aah yes, it was too subtle for a dolt like me :-)

So are we thinking Keith meant fast when he said fearsome? Let's hear the faster bowling trio's that there have been?

Flintoff, Jones, Harmison ?

They were good but not quick.

By comparison.

Oh, I don't think they are the best. I think they are the most hostile I've seen since Holding, Croft, Marshall and Roberts.

I don't watch much cricket, and there may well have been an attack I haven't seen that were more aggressive, but these Aussie guys obviously scared the shit out of the England players. Haven't seen fear like like that for years.

Pretty sure the England players were more terrified of Mitchell Johnson last time Ashes were here.  He consistently ripped through them test after test!

Johnson far more hostile than Starc/Cummins imo.

That's one bowler.

Individually, Brett Lee, Allan Donald or Curtly Ambrose all fit the bill.

But this was sustained aggression from all three. No respite. Whereas although Glenn McGrath was a better bowler than any of these three, he didn't physically scare anyone.

The Bairstow "headbutt incident" all seems like something & nothing that the Media have blown out of proportion.

Even so, this video interview is all a bit weird;



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42133452

Hazlewood is a fine bowler, but definitely more in the McGrath mould. He shouldn't be scaring you out.

Are there no terrestrial highlights for this Ashes series?

Not on telly - I think BT Sport have them on their website for free.

odd

Joe Root's failure to convert casts cloud over England Ashes


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/11/26/joe-roots-failure-convert-good-great-casts-cloud-england/

Starc, Hazelwood and Cummins aren't bowling with the same kind of venom that Johnson, Harris and Siddle were bowling with in 2013/14 imo. England's non existent middle order making the current trio look better than they are.

Bigger issue is the lack of bowlers though. Stokes is a big miss, but i feel as though Mark Wood should have been in the squad.

Massively disagree, the speedos are so inaccurate imo and they juice them up a bit for
Tv.
Go back to 2005 and harmy/ flintoff were hitting ponting langer and co on the head/ grill and body and was being clocked at 88/89mph. Yet now you have broad/ starc sometimes bowling 93mph and people driving and pulling. I'm not saying these guys aren't fast but the speedometers are definitely misleading imo

I think we went better than expected in the test. They are definitely beatable and it showed how much we missed stokes. Ball isn't quite good enough and we miss that batter in the middle

So we're better off judging speed using our own visual assessment rather than using radar?

Well I think there certainly is something in it, and I think it's fairly well know that the tv companies do add a little bit to the speed guns for the tv. Obviously these guys are fast and I certainty wouldn't want to face it!

Have to say, my recollection might be a bit off but I thought they all clocked 90 at times and agree with Verndog, the hostility factor was very high and made much better batsman than our lot today, hop around a fair bit.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPwLNPUX0AAe8kP.jpg)

Will it be the same 11 for England for the second test?

I think Overton in for Ball personally but doubt they'll change

The 2nd Test starts at 0330 UK time tomorrow (Saturday) morning.

Any value in backing England?

Current approx. prices are;

Australia 4/6

England 11/4

Draw 5/1



https://www.oddschecker.com/cricket/ashes/2nd-test/winner



Anyone planning on getting up to watch from the start?

With it being a D/N game I'm setting my alarm for 6.10, just in time for the start of the 2nd session.

England weren’t terrible but they bowled too short and without lateral movement, high pace or a holding spin bowler (Ali injured oreor less) they were dismantled by the patience of Marsh & Cummins

Mark Wood can't come back quick enough.How Plunkett wasn't picked for this tour i will also never know. All four bowlers were 78-83 mph, its not varied or quick enough

you can also say Root won the toss and bowlee,what a crap decision. maybe,but what if the bowlers had pitched the ball up for the first three hours of day 1.They were disappointing

When does Joffra qualify for England? He'll be a game changer for our pace attack, also proving a genuine threat of runs at 9. Speaking of 9s, I thought Cummins batted beautifully today. Took 40 balls to get off the mark but, even then, he wasn't scratching around and panicking. Very classy technique.

"It would be a seven-year qualification to play for England, not complete until 2022-23 which at the speed he is developing would deny international cricket of a gifted cricketer for around four years, frustration no doubt for West Indies cricket."

Source: His Cricinfo profile.

Jofra Archer has got to wait 5 years. Not exactly frustrating for the windies. He got injured and they threw him on the scrapheap. Phenomenal progress last 12months.

Root should of batted first, now England have to face
Lyon in the 4th innings.
As usual England bowlers are average away from home

Hope we can at least draw this one out, nothing worse than going 2/3 down and feeling like you have nothing exciting to watch with no chance to win  :(

Dare to dream lads - The Aussies look rattled and have wasted their two reviews. Even Steve Smith put a catch down!

The Barmy Army are on fire - calling for reviews every time the Aussies appeal!

England cricket fans are more irritating than England rugby fans.

That's quite a feat.

Want Australia to win, just so those twats can't celebrate.

After the first innings I've no idea how we're even in this position.

They've flown half way across the World to support the team and have had to endure some dire England performances over the 1st and 2nd tests.

I think they're entitled to enjoy themselves on the first positive day England have had.

Good luck to them.

After Smith had wasted his reviews - he failed to Review one that was out, then wasted 2 in the space of three balls - the Barmy Army were doing mock "review" signals after every appeal.

Thought it was harmless enough, tbh, just good Ashes spirit really.

Much rather see that than the Post on the Darts thread recently where some kid went to a big Darts night & sat in the front row specifically to diss, harangue & abuse Phil Taylor.



  (http://i.imgur.com/Em8QU4i.jpg) (https://imgur.com/Em8QU4i)

Just watched the highlights - thought it was fun and not too boorish tbf

Also singing "Shall we lend you a review?", which I did enjoy.

Bizarre statement by Bayliss that they should turn down the stump mics because of sledging. Just get the players to behave like adults and we can have a more enjoyable experience watching you play.

Oh and if you could bowl fuller and leave balls miles outside off stump, while you're at it, that'd be splendid.

lol you miserable fker  rotflmfao What you doing watching cricket anyway, too posh for you isn’t it? Stick to your chav sports in future  ;danafish;