blonde poker forum

amongst the spam I get, there's regular email invitation from All In poker to what ammounts to a pyramid scheme. I've rejected future invitations but still they come. todays invitation was marked 'from Dave Colclough'
Does El Blondie know his name is being used on the bottom of this spam?

Adam, I have drawn Dave's attention to this thread

We've been through this before - I think it was Isabelle Mercier who was impersonated last time. I can't find the original thread, but here was the response from All-in Poker.

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=4093.0 (http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=4093.0)

oh yeah, I remember. I'll have a look.

thanks Andrew and Adam

anyone know who Paul Millward and Jacqueline Brindley are? I got the same email with their names at the bottom too.

I suppose Jacqueline could be "Roy the boy" away from the poker tables....

lol

I wondered if it was his wife or something

is jacqueline roys mother?

same name

The Isabelle Mercier thing all went off on THM not on here IIRC.
Harry D in particular got a bit wound up about it all.

I will bring this to the attention of the CEO of All In Poker. Adam if you would forward me the email I can make sure it is dealt with in the manner it deserves. In fairness to All In Poker they are not the only poker site to get over zealous affiliates. I am fed up of explaining to people how it is not a pyrimid scheme, It just has a different way of rewarding players and referrers. There are no fees to join, the levels are not never-ending and nobody is getting ripped off.

If anybody else gets any emails from people claiming to be someone they are not then let me know and I will bring it to the attention of All In Poker and they will stop.

Mike

Hi all,

Paul Barnes here, CEO of All In Poker.

I have been alerted to this thread by one of our biggest affiliates. Let me please say a few things here:

(i) if you send me (ceo@allinpoker.com) the "regular email invitation from All In poker to what ammounts to a pyramid scheme" I will personally investigate. There is no pyramid scheme at All In Poker. A pyramid scheme is one where you pay a fee to join, and where the benefits to a few come primarily from the fees paid to join. All In Poker is a multi-level commission program, unique in the poker business, and ideally suited to poker players who tend to be worth more than they know and whose worth is not honoured or recognised by the vast majority of sites on which they play. All In Poker is a site for players and affiliates. Given every member is automatically an affiliate who earns from their downline but pays nothing to join, how on earth could it possibly be a pyramid scheme?

Let me explain how the All In Poker Rewards Program (ARP) work:

All In Poker is not a rake-back site – it’s better, because when you refer players to your downline you get paid commission on 51% of the net revenues generated by all players on your first 7 Levels (up to 97,655 players in total).

On Levels 1, 2 & 3 you get paid 10%. On Levels 4, 5 & 6 you get paid 15%. On Level 7, the most populated, you get 25 %. If you add all these percentages up (10,10,10,15,15,15,25) it comes to 100% of the 51% allocated for commission within your downline.

We give every player 25% of their commission (i.e. 25% of the 51%) whether they play or not.

If you play 750 AIP raked hands per month or become a Super Affiliate then you earn 100% of your commission (i.e. 100% of the 51%). If you play less than 750 AIP raked hands then the commission is calculated pro-rata.

Any unearned commission goes to the Breakage and is distributed amongst the members in the form of Freeroll tournaments and cash bonuses.

You earn commission on all players in the first 7 Levels of your downline even it they were not directly referred by you. You always earn commission on Direct Referrals even if your downline is full. If you run out of slots for Direct Referrals then All In Poker allocates a new leg on your Level 1.

The beauty of this program is in its simplicity - you only have to refer between one to five good players to your Level 1 and you can already build a cash generating downline.

All players are automatically cash bonus earning affiliates at All In Poker.

(ii) I have alerted my Operations Manager tonight to investigate this email issue. I'll keep my breadth to cool my porridge here but not only is All In Poker Bonder by Bonder Sender Program, but exclude Spam specifically in the T's & C's.

I'll post back and let you know what we found. In the meantime email me with any questions to ceo@allinpoker.com.

Thanks,
Paul

I skipped part (i) as I wasn't particularly interested, but part (ii) seems to skip the issue of signing off as Dave Colclough - I think that's the issue we are most interested in. Your comments would be appreciated :)

What a cracking reply.  A nice full advert for the company and a "We'll look into it".

 ;applause; ;applause; ;applause; ;applause; ;applause; ;applause;

I'm impressed.

I got an emal today from this also, it was marked spam, daft thing is I already have an account with them.

Hi, one of the ways we facilitate our members to refer their friends to the site is via an Invitations Page. This allows you to enter free format text and send an email invite to your friend with a link embedded in the email, taking the recipient to a registration page. The system sends the email using the email address entered in the registration profile of the sender. Obviously people can change their own profile and give themselves any name they want. I have set the investigation in motion but we need to examine the invitations database, which, I hope you understand, is difficult to do at 10pm Friday night. But we'll find out where it came from. I guess with many thousands of users this can happen. Paul

Damned if you do, damned if you don't - if someone is making wild statements about my company I feel I should explain exactly what we do and open up via my email address to take any further questions. Also, I know Dave Colclough and Tony Kendall, both of whom I respect greatly, and if someone is really using Dave's name, then I regard it as important to go in and take a strong position.

BTW: I 'm impressed too - I just checked out your site by clicking on the advertisement for it at the bottom of your post. Not bad. ;applause;

Paul

I think you have to admit, your strategy for acquiring new players is somewhat suspicious.

I am sure the whole poker internet Business is very competitive and requires clever marketing to be successful, But as soon as you start talking about Downlines  People will automatically think of pyramid schemes.

You say this is no such thing, Well it certainly looks like one to me. Along with the fact that peoples names are being added to this scheme without their knowledge, Just makes it look even worse.

There is no place in poker for deceptive tactics and pyramid schemes, you are just arming the government with reasons to protect us. I do hope you rethink your position on marketing.

Oh and while you are reading this maybe you could have a word with this guy and tell him not to spam my mailbox again….

When you register (free of charge) you will be able to invite new members to your downline. By building a downline of poker players, you can generate significant monthly earnings
Please note: the registration page allows you to lock your Level 1 and thus prevent automatic referrals coming into your Level 1 for up to 48 hours after you register. This gives you time to directly refer your chosen members to your Level 1.
Welcome to my downline!
John Schultz 

(http://www.hardwaregeeks.com/board/images/smilies/icon_spammer.gif)
(http://www.absolutepunk.net/images/smilies/new/00000729.gif)

(http://www.pimpboard.com/images/smilies/spam.gif)
(http://www.pimpboard.com/images/smilies/deadspam.gif)
(http://www.pimpboard.com/images/smilies/bs_spam.gif)

Blimey  :D

so Ifm, it's spam or do I misunderatand what you are trying to say?  ;)

Hey IFM how big is the file you uploaded to your post?  My browser loads in under 4 secs but now on this thread its 22 secs...

Been dying to use those for ages  :D :D :D

BTW just left Dan in a sat for the £500 fest game at walsall, he was in clover with 10 left 5 seats available.

I know who sent the Isabelle Mercier one and Jacqueline Brindley may well be the same person. As the connection is there.

I am currently investigating how my name was used. I have not purposely sent any emails in the last month or so.

If anyone has any evidence of receiving emails from me, I would love to see the email.

Mine came from (Donal S [pokerwhiz1@hotmail.com]) Never heard of him/her, dont know if this helps anyone if not just ignore it, like i did the email.

Nearly everybody has a personal website.  I don't include a 288 word sales spiel with mine, I'm not that desperate.  Damned if you do and break for the advertisement in between perhaps?


So, anybody can harvest an email list and spam them from your website under the names of well known players?

I'll just report any email spam from your company to Prima Poker directly in future.

Dave, I will forward the email I recieved.

can we have allinpokers' spam reply removed from this thread?

the explaination is much the same as last time it happened, and no improvement seems to have been made. It's unsolicited email in my inbox which by my reckoning is spam,whatever the terms and conditions say and lots of it .

Allinpoker tries to come across as an organisationset up purely to benefit poker players. crap, it's there to make money on the back of poker players. to try and come across as if there's nothing in it for them is daft.  it is a pyramid scheme. because the participants dont directly pay money to allinpoker doesnt change that.

 :goodpost:

Hi Dave,

I have forwarded the email i received from all in poker, and it seems to be using your personal email addy.

Ang x x

Folks, I think there is some uber sensitivity going on here. Adam posted a valid concern about Dave Colclough's email being used falsely in what he inferred was a 'Pyramid scheme'. So therefore there are two things that are potentially damaging to All In Poker's business. Within a few hours you had the CEO on this forum making a post which tried to clear up a few points. He actually consulted me before posting his initial response and I said to him 'They are going to read this as spam but I don't know how you can explain why it is not a pyramid scheme in any other way'. Paul openly admits he is not used to posting on forums and is not sure of what is within boundaries or not. I don't believe he can cover all bases without posting this information. It looks like it is spam but telling people they will get to the source of the email takes a few words whereas explaining the difference between a pyramid scheme and a multi level marketing scheme takes a lot more.

More importantly is the issue about someone pretending to be Dave. He has said that they will investigate, I hope Adam has sent him the email so it can be traced (which it will be). It has obviously been sent by a numpty and they will be stopped from sending anymore.

I was one of the first members of this forum and since then have (I hope) become friends with and built up a good working relationship with Tikay and team. I am often live updating from the same events and we have always helped each other out. What I am trying to say is that hopefully my word has some standing here by now. I have has a close relationship with All In Poker since its conception and incidents like this I can assure infuriate them as much as the people involved like Adam & Dave.

Just a point on multiple emails coming through, I recently sent an invite to a friend to join another site (which is respected and used by this forum's posters) and it has arrived in his mailbox 3 times yet I sent it once. I also could have said in the custom text box anything I liked.

Regards

Mike

I actually like the all-in poker idea. The bottom line is that they give 51% of the rake back to the punters. No other Prima site matches this. So it is clearly the most favourable to play on.

However, I am upset that someone has used my name.

Further moreso, I am devasted by the fact they appear to have broken into my email account to do so. I am getting failed to send messages back in my bigfoot Inbox. this indicates to me, that the culprit has managed to use my bigfoot email address to send the Invitations. I personally see this as Fraud. Has anyone got any idea how this is possible? If so, could they PM me?

Dave,

I get a periodic - maybe every 4 weeks email from your big foot account asking me to join all-in poker. In fact, this goes back maybe 5 months, sorry, I should have mentioned it to you but I assumed it was a genuine mail. Cray how these boys can hack into your account, if you close your bigfoot account it should stop I would have thought.

Rob

Dave I doubt they've hacked your account. More likely they are simply spoofing the reply to address.

It's not difficult at all to send an email which ostensibly comes from any chosen person, but in actual fact is sent from somewhere completely different.

Try sending an email to Rob that is defo from you and compare the 2 (the source should be different) if they are the same then you will know for sure.

Hello,

I have commissioned detailed reports this morning related to invitations and reminders from All In Poker associated with people mentioned on this forum.

No one has received an Invitation Reminder from All In Poker that was not originally sent by the respective registered member of All In Poker.

What has happened is that some people have now received a Reminder for an Invitation that originally may have been sent up to 5 months ago (when we were still in pre-launch BETA Testing with a small select group of people). In some cases the author/sender may have forgotten they sent it - and the recipient may not have had any contact with the sender for several months - hence it looks like Spam or a hack. Neither is the case.

The most likely reason that the original invitation was not received is because it ended up in a junk filter. The most likely reason for this is that at that time All In Poker was not a Bonded Sender (you must be live for 90 days to be a Bonded Sender). We are now live for 90 days and are now a Bonded Sender.

We have received requests from some of our top affiliates, many of whom have sent many invitations to friends, colleagues and business partners, to resend their invitations for them as a service (there is no mass resend tool in All In Poker). We have also received many complaints related to people who had been sent invitations but had not received them.

Yesterday (Friday) we sent out Reminders including those that we considered might never have reached their intended recipient because we were not Bonded at the time. This was a once-off exercise related to the Bonding Certification, and it has now happily resulted in sign-ups for some of those people, which is of course the intended result. All reminders were sent exactly as they were originally sent by the author - in exactly the same format using exactly the same words and exactly the same recipient email information as the original invitation.

I accept that we should have known that this might cause confusion with sender and/or recipient in some cases. And it has, for which I apologise to Dave Colclough.

Please remember, All In Poker is all about relationships marketing - i.e. marketing to people with whom you have a relationship. That is how we can afford to give 51% of the net revenues back to our players - because we don't spend this cash on marketing. You send invites to your friends, acquaintances and business partners, period.

All Invitations come with an Unsubscribe link, and no Invitations, which had previously been rejected using this link, were resent.

Regards,
Paul Barnes
ceo@allinpoker.com

If i recall correctly i signed up via blonde and it was Rhowena's name that came up.

I know people who have had emails from "ebay" asking them to join the powerseller program even when they have sold nothing. This is the internet and fake stuff happens. They said they'll investigate so give them a chance.

Sandy

no Adam, there are two questions here

a) DC's name being used on e-mails, which they have promised to investigate

b) the mechanics and ethics of all-in poker. IMHO the CEO is allowed right of reply to issues raised on this thread in that regard

Just to clarify.
a) My email system has not been broken into
b) all-in poker sent approx 50 emails on 3rd Sept that appeared to be from me. They did this without my permission or knowledge.
c) I have registered my complaints on the subject and have asked that they do not do this again in the future
d) I have received an apology

 :goodpost:

But this is worrying....


Was this really the site's doing, or were they duped by an unscrupulous affiliate?

I was contemplating depositing on Prima, probably through AllIn Poker because of the Blonde link, but I don't want to touch any site that would deliberately behave in this kind of unethical manner.

Clarification would be appreciated, Mr. Barnes.

Hi,

Paul Barnes here.

If your check in your luggage at the airport and watch it going down the conveyor belt towards the airplane, you trust the baggage handlers to to put your bags on the plane. If they don't, you get very upset. Many of our bags fell off, because the conveyor belt wasn't properly set up. We put the bags back on the conveyor belt, as a service to the owner, who had gone to a lot of trouble to pack the bag in the first place. We didn't introduce any new bags, repack any existing bags, change the names or the barcodes, the origin or the destination, the weight, the contents, the colour - nothing. We ensured that the service commitment was fulfilled.

We ensured that the invitations originally penned by the owners got through to the intended recipient. That is all. And, guess what, people are signing up, in the downlines where they should have signed up weeks ago. No message was sent that was not already submitted by the respective author in the first place.

So, don't talk to me about ethics, parasites, pyramids or any other unsubstantiated visions you may have.

This was a once-off service to address complaints about the conveyor belt.

Regards,
Paul

ok i will comment on all in poker and the "benifits" of 51% rake back

if you play alot of poker you dont get anywhere near 51% of your rake back
what you get is a share of other people rake if they are in your downline
if nobody in your downline plays you get 0$ in rake back where as the people
at the top of the chain gets paid your rake so
as a matter of fact it works just like a chain letter
the people at the top get rich while we plebs at the bottom get nothing

if that aint a fact then prove me wrong

Is this true?  You get no rake back if you refer nobody?

LOL!

 rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao

It gets better!

no you get rake no rake back if people below you in the downline dont play

i have 10 people in my download none of them play so no matter how much i play i get $0 rake back

so i dont bother playing

There are so many better options, really.

I'll sit on my fingers and say nothing else.

You seem to have completely misunderstood the All In Poker rewards program. All In Poker is not a rake-back site, and never was. If you really want to understand how the commission program works then please invest 5 minutes in watching the movie on the home page (www.allinpoker.com). If you are interested in learning more then read the Brochure. Your comments below, in particular "if you play alot of poker you dont get anywhere near 51% of your rake back" are completely incorrect. I can prove to you via people that you know of personally, Ironside, that one's position in the downline does not mean that you earn less than someone above you. Now, I can prove this. I can show you the evidence. You cannot prove your statement below, and you shouldn't write such stuff without supporting evidence, or attempt to damage my website based on your prejudice or your blurred vision of pyramids or "chain letters". Watch the movie. Read the brochure. Look at the website. Sit back and think before you write. Let the penny drop. And, if one is not interested in making money from one's poker assets, then just play on the site like any other Prima site.

Paul

i stand by my statement that the people making the most money out of this are those at the top of the chain

the statement in your adertising of giving players back 51% of the rake is missleading

if you are lucky enough to get a big hitter in your downline then you can make good money

but the people that are making the real money are the top 2 or 3 players in the PRYAMID

are you saying people i have met once or twice at a poker table or people i got out for dinner with on a regualr basis

cause people i have met over a poker table are not the best character witnesses as i am trying to steal from them and they me all the time
as for people i go out to dinner with regularly none of them would know the difference between 74o and AA

Lots of people "stand by" what they say, even to the bitter end. See Tony Blair and Iraq for example. Sure, "if you are lucky enough to get a big hitter in your downline then you can make good money" -  yes - that's the whole point! So, why did you refer 10 duds to your downline? What we advertise is that we "always give back 51% of the net revenues to the players". We always do this. Always. Always. Always. I have nothing more to add.

One is a major European professional poker player, very well known. Another is a poker business professional in the poker player's downline. The latter earns more commission (not "rake back") than the former because he is damn good at what he does, has seen the value of the proposition, grasped it, and runs with it.

i didnt invite anyone to my list and i refuse to spam my friends so never will send out invites

the thing with chain letters/pryamid schemmes is they need and endless stream of people to work

let say all your affllates go out there and sign up every player in the world to your site

the people at the bottom wont get a penny back where as the people at the top will be milking it

also they wont be able to sign up new people as the only new people to be signed up will be people having there 18th birthday and they will obviously sign up in there family line rather than that of some nobody

and i know these 3 people?

i doubt if they are people i know more likely people i have met and maybe had a drink with

totally different

for me it's quite simple, if i play on betholdem (another prima skin) i will get ( i think) 35% rakeback when i play.
I do the same on allin i get err, nothing. You can say it's my fault for not getting Pokergirl1 in my downline but the truth is  i can guarantee X amount from elsewhere, where is my incentive?
I don't care if it's a pyramid scheme or not, it is irrelevant the point is it is not profitable unless i happen to get people who are prepared to bet a shed load of cash AND i have to play a shed load of raked hands on top.

Hi,

again, this is incorrect and you are misinforming. All In Poker takes care of our performing players. Let me explain. The 51% of net revenues is allocated to the player commission fund, distributed on the basis of individual player performance in terms of their referrals and their own play (not rake-back - raked hands). Not all commission is earned because not all targets are met (not everyone plays 750 AIP raked hands per month - the latter comprising of 9 AIP raked hands for every $1 paid in tournament fees, plus raked hands from cash games to whose pot the player has contributed). The difference between the 51% of corporate net revenues allocated to be paid to the players (not rake-back) and that actually earned is called the breakage. This breakage is used to pay cash bonuses to players. All In Poker decides who gets the bonuses (not rake-back). The 51% of net revenues always goes to the players. People who neither refer nor play will be last in line for bonuses. I think that makes sense. What would you prefer, 35% of your own rake or 51% of a revenue fund generated by 10's, 100's or in some cases 1000's of players in your downline? Work out what 51% of PartyPoker's net revenues are and compare that to 35% on a rake-back deal? You know, All In Poker is new and innovative and gives a great opportunity to all of you who have found yourself in the midst of the poker revolution, and recognise the opportunity. You play poker, you know people who play poker, so why not use this asset to earn extra income? That's what All In Poker is all about.

Thanks,
Paul

This whole thread is becoming quite cringe worthy, with accusations from one to another, and to be honest it’s not what I normally expect to see on this forum. Looks to me that something personal is going on and if it is then shouldn’t this be argument be best sorted out by Private messages?

Good point. I'm finished here. I'm happy to take any further queries on ceo@allinpoker.com.

Regards to all,
Paul

 ;iagree;

Guys I think its pretty reasonable that the CEO of a pokersite has taken time to answer your objections.  If you have an issue with the scheme that they are running then thats your choice but its unfair to use this forum to attack a pokersite that has taken an innovative approach.  A lot of the comments made could be very damaging and made without evidence - thats just not cricket !!

Guys


we, together with the poster concerned, deleted some inappropriate phraseology from this thread but have allowed both the posters and the company to have their say on objections and a right of reply to these. We are happy to see robust discussion and to the best of our knowledge there is nothing personal here apart from the e-mail issue with DC's name for which he has received an apology.

I have no personal problem with allin, i just look at what is of advantage to me and my own circumstances.
At the moment it doesn't work for me, maybe it will in the future, i don't know.
I do know that if i think i can make it work i have no qualms in using the site, no probs.
Debate is a good thing in forums, in fact it is the life blood of them, as long as it is in the right spirit i see no problem.
I think the blurb annoyed one or two people and they reacted to that.
Ian

F*ck sake this turned into War and Peace but please read it because I think I can straighten it all out.


I've stayed out of this for the whole thing because:

1. You guys don't really know me. Ok, Jen and I work together all the time and I like TK too cos he's a straight up, "no bull" kinda bloke. But I still feel like I am a newcomer here and you've no reason to read or believe what I say, unless its logically consistent within itself.

Translation: I haven't been out to dinner with Ironside. You have no reason to take anything I say on my character.
I wouldnt mind having dinner with Ironside, he sounds like an interesting bloke. I *have* been out to dinner with Jen and TK but then we were all very hungry, so that probably doesnt say much about my character either. I'll stick to logical arguments! :)


Full disclosure:
I have a big downline. I have about 50 active players. I make a good bit of cash from it. Well, frickin' *yay* for me. So what...



If, after reading this with an open mind and an unbiased heart you decide (like IFM) that its not for you, ok. No really, ok. Fair enough! :)


However, Ironside and IFM have, I believe, made some mistakes or been misinformed. I'll try to explain as best as my communications skills allow. I'll take them point by point.

1. "Its a pyramid scheme, only those at the top succeed".
Its not a pyramid scheme. I f*ckin HATE pyramid schemes and they are illegal in the EU anyway. Why is it not a pyramid scheme? Because of three subtle but distinct differences:

A. You never EVER EVER pay the people above you for entry or for being in their downline. Prima (via AIP) pays them a commission based on your activity. Pyramid schemes on the other hand will ask you for entry payment on the "promise" that you will get it back in spades when TONS of people join up after you. No such payment is demanded by AIP and no such promise is made. Its an affliate deal, you either invite more people or you dont. You're choice, your reward based on that choice.


B. Its limited to 7 levels of 5-wide. Aha you might counter, thats like 197,000 people, you'll never reach the bottom! Untrue. I already have people who are outside my downline. This happens when I invite Person A who invites person B who invites etc etc. 7 invites later... they are outside my downline and I get nothing. This is a key difference between AIP and a pyramid scheme. It kills the "only those at the top benefit". I'm half way down a big player's downline as it is and I'm making more then he is because the lower half of my downline is wide and doesnt pay him.


C. "The people at the bottom get nothing and they get screwed." 51% of revenue is ear marked for repayment. However nothing *like* 51% gets paid out because only 10-20% of the player actually play or reach 750 played hands. So what happens to that extra dosh? Everyone gets a shot at it. I've already played in about 10,000 worth of AIP-Only freerolls for the remainder. These are open to players who play even just one hand no matter where in the downlines they are. Pyramid schemes don't offer anything to the people at the bottom apart from the "EXCLUSIVE OPPORTUNITY TO SUPPORT THOSE AT THE TOP!!" :)


IFM... you said if you do nothing then its the same as playing on Prima with no rake back. This isnt true because you get entry into these freeroll tournies. they also pay out bonuses to big players with small downlines. I think thats great but its your decision, if you arent going to invite anyone and you are already part of a rakeback scheme, which is the better reward for you. Honestly, I can't tell you.
What I can tell you is that if you know 5 people who arent part of a rackback scheme you can get AIP to pay you a tidy sum and they'll get a benefit too.

If you really DO go out and invite a good few people you can make a packet. I have 40-50 people in my downline and I'm making about a grand a month. (I'm not going to give my downline details here to avoid the allegation of pimpage).


Spammage?
Someone sent invites claiming to be Isabel M. That person got investigated and dealt with. I can sign on here as Devilfish, say what I like, have this forum publish it to the world and it isnt BlondPokers fault is it???

Machines don't understand ethics. They just do what they are programmed to do. Bad people do bad things, lets blame and punish the bad people, not the people who own the machines.

The mistake here is that people think you can load a list of emails into AIP and blast them out. You can't you have to invite each person individually, by hand. (trust me, I know, I had to invite 200 people by hand!).
If someone sits down and spends an evening pretending to be Isabel M, they are to blame, not AIP.

Cont'd

to be continued?


*sigh*


just let me get a cup of tea first and settle down

SOMETHING POSITIVE FOR A CHANGE.


I really really don't want to open up this can of worms again but as IFM said, robust discussion (one that produces light, not heat) is never *ever* bad in my opinion.
You can say to me "I don't want to be arsed inviting people, and I can't be bothered with freerolls and the odd bonus, so AIP seems like a crap deal to me" and you will not get one moments argument from me. In fact, you'd probably be right.

I'm just putting the other side of the coin accross and relating a success story to you from someone who is in another poker players downline and doing very well out of it thank you very much.

Imagine if everyone here played in Blondpoker's downline. The site would get a HUGE bonus of cash. Several thousand a month at least. That would pay for a nice raise for Jen and allow them to cover more events. Snoop might even get a can of coke and a packet of fags the odd time. :)

(and before you say it, no BP *isnt* in my downline, I wouldnt benefit a penny from this. But its an idea isnt it? I hate to see snoop staving when we're on the road :) ) This is just an idea, it occured to me about 10 seconds ago and I offer it only as such. I only invoke Jen and TK's name to prove I am a real individual and not a company spambot. Beyond that I speak only for myself.

This is working for us in Ireland. Maybe its not how Dave and Co want to take their business. Its certainly none of MY business what and how they support their site. Except that I really like being on the road with BP and they do a hell of a job as you all know. Anything I see that supports or perpetuates them doing that, I will put here. As I said, I wont get a penny from it I just like the site.


Tom "DeVore" Murphy.

LOL.... The Irish eh? we all think we're James freakin' Joyce. :)

DeV.

well at least you are not Bono, then you might sing it to us. :o

Look, the Irish Government has apologised for Bono on several  occasions.

</southpark>



DeV.

if everyone here played on any site that they had clicked thru on a blonde link then blonde would make a bit of money and have enough to pay jen and snoopy and  keep tikays cats in the manner they are acustomed

but my final word on all in is that the offical term is pyramid marketing yes its plausable for someone in the middle to be making more thant those at the top but its rare same with a chain letter where you pay the 5 people on the list remove the guy at top and put yourself at the bottom then send it on there is a limit to the number of people that will pay you some will some wont

its a prymids marketing scheme where one person send the details on to 5+ people who send it on to 5+ people etc etc

pyrymid marketing is legal doesnt mean it not a pryamid

But I explained. You don't pay to enter, you don't pay to play and you dont pay to invite. Infact you NEVER pay.

I appreciate that this is your final word. Ok. But you asked for a logical argument. I'm giving you one.
Just repeatedly saying "its a chain letter" isn't a counter argument.

Please please reread what I wrote because I know where you are coming from. I'm all with you on pyramid schemes. But this really just isnt one and I've given the logical, no character based arguments to explain that.

If I might be so bold, to be fair to me and the time I put into that opus:
1. you should counter them  or
2. accept this is some bias on you behalf or
3. or explain are a busy person who doesnt have time to argue with people you've never met on the internet. (I'll accept this as genuine!).

I mean, genuinely I'm interested in this debate. Actually I don't know why now that I think of it because I wont benefit a penny regardless but something IFM said made me want to dissect it and for ONCE in the history of the internet, have a mature, informed, incisive debate on a topic that didnt descend into allegations of Nazism or Favourite Star Trek episodes.

I mean, I'll genuinely understand if you dont though :)

DeV.

Time to kill this thread as it is just inviting more people to SPAM this forum.

IMHO you have had your free advert and put your case across in a well mannered and constructive way ..BUT ffs  enough is enough i think.

Blonde is actually pro Star Wars and agnostic about Star Trek.


Now then, that sorted, can we leave both the criticisms and the clarifications alone and let the thread drop?!

Please.  8)

I don't have a problem with AIP in general.  I have a problem with sites that allow affiliates to email ANYBODY from their website with spam.

Email addresses, especially via forums, are easily obtained.  So, for AIP to have a system which invites users to email others then they are asking for abuse from the minority, a minority who are clever enough to harvest email addresses (well, it's not that difficult really) and use well known poker names for their spam.

Like Hotmail?


I'm sorry guys, I don't see how you can accuse me of spam. I have never EVER mentioned my affiliate number, link or my own base site.
I have not tried to benefit from this discussion and I'll stop now because clearly its not welcome.

I don't think I deserve to be called a spammer or an advertiser. I've tried to help Blondpoker many many times over the last 9 months since we met in Vegas. I've fixed computers, loaned them bits of tech and had a great laugh with them.

I repeat that I have not EVER linked to my site, my affliate downline or tried to benefit one iota from this and I think its a cop out to call me a spammer and an advertiser. But I'll cease and desist from constructive discussion that is contrary to the accepted opinion as I'm causing offence where none was intended.

Tom.

as long as people keep coming on giving there OPIONS thats it is not a pryamid i will keep giving my opinion that it is a pryamid

most sites now offer the more you play the more you get back

but all in offer the more the people below you play the more you get back

this is a legal pryamid because you dont give directly to the people above

but the more you play the richer the people above you become

yes 51% of rake giving back to the punters is genorous

but giving each member 45% rake back would be much better IMHO for the punters

but then the site wouldn't have members going round advertising to there friends to join up

devore you took mrmoves posts out of context and no one has accused you personally of spam

and your personal link with blonde is apreacited by blonde

my remarks on this thread are my own personal opinions and

any shareholder or emplyee of blonde can offer there own personal opinions if they so wish

Ironside, if I ever get over to a Blond Bash, I hope you'll accept my invitation to dinner and we can argue this. Or not. Or talk about poker most likely. I dunno!

I'm bowing out for the reasons given above as I doubt good will come of it regardless of how polite, reasoned or careful I am. If the admins don't want further constructive argument/discussion then may I suggest just closing this thread because threads exist for no other reasion imho.

Tom.

if people want to debate the issue they can feel free

we have freedom of speach on blonde

as long as the debate stays in a blonde manner then people are open to say what they want

my personal view is one thing but i would never censor people for disagreeing with me

I know. But I feel maybe I'm intruding and perhaps this really had been done to death and we should just agree that sleeping dogs should be left to lie rather then repeatedly kicked in the ass and have red meat waved at them.

And I run a (non-poker) site in Ireland that is about 30 times the size of these forums and I ferociously hunt down spammers and advertisers which is probably why I got a bit tetchy about those comments when I was very careful not to be.

Perhaps its time to say "we differ on this" rather then force a resolution to be found... that IS an acceptible outcome to a debate after all :)
I have an inate "thats not fair" chip in my head and it triggered on this thread. I know the Blondies, and I know the CEO of AIP. All are people I like and respect so I put on my big wellies and jumped in where I thought there was an injustice.

Lets just see each others point of views and agree to differ. Gosh, wouldnt that be a scary outcome of a contentious thread on the int0rw3b?

I feel like Bart and Lisa when Homer predicts the comet will burn up and be no bigger then a chihouas head. I'm scared Ironside...*hug?*

DeV.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

agreeing to differ is a usual outcome for me as i agree to differ with most people most of the time

just because we differ on things doesnt mean we dont get on

The last 3 years of DS9 were the only good ones.

Ironside WTF is a pryamid? is it something the eygptians are buried in?

It's a triangular crow bar.

I promised myself & others that I would not Post on this thread. I said my piece about All-In some months ago, & because things were a little one-sided, I had a meet with Paul Barnes in Monte Carlo, we had an exchange of views, & I suggested he had every right to defend his actions via the blonde Forum.

Thats all I am gonna say on the matter, enough has been said, you have all formed your views, and there is no point in this argument going round & round for the sake of it.

But......

I do need to make  comment about two of the Posters, Lucky Blind (Mike Lacey) & De Vore (Tom Murphy).

Tom & Mike have been VERY special & helpful to blonde, & many of the Live Updates would not have happened without their help. In particular, Tom is a genius with Laptops & Techy stuff, & he has saved blonde's life on many occasions when we have technical problems. Jen & I shared a cash game table with Tom in Paris one night, it was a real hoot, he's a good guy. Mike & I have shared many Tourny tables, especially, by coincidence, at Deauville last year, when Tom busted out a hand or two before or after me, in the semi-final, after a brave display.

I will always remain grateful to both of them, as will Jen, & blonde. We will remain friends for a very liong time, despite maybe not seeing eye to eye on All-In Poker.

The same comment applies to another man involved or mentiond in the thread, Peter Roche. Peter is, in my opinion, one of the greatest Tourney players alive, & I have immense respect for his game, & he is also a very special friend, who has been very helpful & supportive towards me, giving me many helpful tips on improving my game.

We may not share the same views on All-In, but that will not stop me remembering their help towards blonde & myself, & the friendship will, I am 100% sure, survive this difference of views.

Are AIP in anyway related to the Cobra Group?

By the way, Star Wars owns Star Trek!

No, but I'm a great fan of Bayern Munich if that helps.

Paul Barnes

FFS....Can we PLEASE put this one to bed..........PLEASE

I told Jen in Copenhagen when she seemed a bit down that life on the road just wouldnt be the same without you guys. "Survival" on the tournie circuit isnt enough, ya gotta have a few laughs along the way too. I'm all blushing and stuff here, thanks for your comments. :)

Now my taxi is here to go to Deauville. Mikes coming too so I think there might be drink involved, possibly.

DeV.