blonde poker forum

Heeze is at seat 1 with 400.00
JespBP is at seat 2 with 363.00
Vassell is at seat 3 with 504.70
Mr End is at seat 4 with 360.40
ElefantMis is at seat 5 with 371.85
I GOAT FU is at seat 6 with 362.76
Dr_Jones is at seat 7 with 402.00
Tigerente is at seat 8 with 104.34
dondolla is at seat 9 with 222.60
Netto is at seat 10 with 401.60

Dr_Jones posts the large blind 4.00
I GOAT FU posts the small blind 2.00

I GOAT FU: --, --
Dr_Jones: --, --
Tigerente: --, --
dondolla: --, --
Netto: --, --
JespBP: --, --
Vassell: --, --
Mr End: Kc, Kd
ElefantMis: --, --

Pre-flop:

Tigerente: Fold
dondolla: Fold
Netto: Raise  8.00
JespBP: Fold
Vassell: Fold
Mr End: Raise  24.00
ElefantMis: Fold
I GOAT FU: Fold
Dr_Jones: Fold
Netto: Call 24.00

Flop (Board: 7d, Ks, 8c):

Netto: Bet  4.00
Mr End: ?

This flop almost screams slowplay but I would start to build the pot now with a minimum raise. He is unlikleyto fold and the more money in the middle the more he will want to go after it. If he catches something on the turn then great.

p.s this isn't a bad beat

I am interested in whether you flat call or raise and risk losing your customer....

Raise every time, you can't flat call 4 when the pots that big.  Not a min raise either, just screams you have a monster. Might as well raise to half the pot.

a minimum raise here tells them you have kings. it's big pot suicide.
flat call. then flat call the turn. or put what LOOKS like a steal bet in if he checks. and raise enough on the river to still get a call. as you've called called the pot should be big enough by this time to get a customer still with a pretty large bet. maybe 30 or something.

He's playing 2/4.  30 is not a big bet.   There's no point in just calling a minimum bet, thats not pot building.  Surely the guy knows he's going to get reraised anyway, as you've reraised preflop.  You're only going to get paid in this hand if your opponent has something, might as well stick in a decent reraise and hope he plays.

I'm going to let the timer run down on this then make it $16 to go. I'm sure i should get a call from here. you have to hope his raise pre flop was with Big slick and the $4 bet is so as not to lose HIS customer.

Every reply so far has recommended actions that basically turn your hand face up. 

Well i ask myself WTF is the $4 bet for. It screams weak. I can't believe he is not trying to get you to see it as weak and re raise him. I'm expecting him to re raise my $16 bet..

OK...

We don't know anything about Netto...

I say he has made a pair of kings, and possibly made two pair on the flop. I agree the weak bet smells funny. He should know what he is doing sitting at a 2/4 table, but who can tell eh?

If you raise he is going to follow, and obviosuly you aren't just going to call that bet.

I think a lot here depends on what you have seen of him before this hand. You can ask questions with your bets and he is either going to answer them, or he doesn't understand that they are a question and is blind to everything apart from his two pair.

So raise, and keep raising.

I await flames :)

Heid
xx

Heid you're spot on.  So many people love to make normal continuation bets when they don't hit then stop betting when they've got the nuts to "slow-play".    It sticks out like a sore thumb.

Bundle a reraise to 16 when the pot is 54 isn't really big enough in my opinion. 

yeah i see your point Wellchief. I'm thinking it should look like a cheap steal. Not too little not too much.. I'm hoping for the re raise from him.

What would you think is the correct amount to bet here?. And what do you think will happen after your bet?

It might have helped to see what the starting stacks were

OK i didnt look for the staring stacks and now see them there ooopps sorry

Well when I'm playing cash games I will almost always follow up my bet with the same size bet on the flop (around 2/3, depends on no. of players and board), although I will mix in a few checks with and without hands as well. 

In this situation you're not going to win much unless you're opponent has hit some part of the flop.  He seems like a bad player from the bets so far so if he has a King you're going to get paid if you put in a sizeable raise.  I would raise to 35ish here as that's what my opponent would expect and hope he had something, he may have a drawing hand I wouldn't rule and hand out from his actions so far.  If he folded I wouldn't shed any tears. These aren't the sort of situations where you get paid off massively anyway unless its a set vs set thing and then it wouldn't matter what you raised.

ps. Stack sizes are at top.

Ok looking at the whole thing again. (if only we had the time when playing) It is quite possible he could have AA. The min raise from fairly early position says he wanted a call and then to call the raise from tighend makes me think he is either very loose or has a big hand.

 I think tighty is going to show us he cracked Aces here and Doubled up.. The $4 bet stinks of a made hand

Whenever I see players make crappy little bets like this I want to smack them round the head. The problem with dealing with them is that it's invariably the bet of someone who either a) fears you making a proper bet if they check or b) has got what they think is close to the nuts and don't want to lose their customer.

In either situation, it's a dreadful bet. In my experience I've had a lot of success raising these with anything, as they're more often a sign of weakness.

In Tighty's situation I would put in a proper raise. If I read the HH right, the pot is currently $70 - I would raise to about $50. If his bet is a sign of weakness (say a weakish King) then you're not going to get much out of him anyway, unless he pairs his kicker, so you're not losing much if he folds. However, if he's sitting there with AA (or even pocket 77 or 88), then a big raise will mean you will double through.

You want to raise to a level whereby, if he calls, a natural progression of sensible size bets will get all the money in the middle. (Turn would be a pot of about $170, you'd have about $285 left - a turn bet of 3/4 would make the pot big enough that a call would mean a river call was mandatory).

Wellchief's point is spot on. The number of times I've seen a suspicious raise which tells me my opponent has a monster is legion. In this situation, I'd also have an advantage in that I'd be betting and raising flops like this even if I didn't have a King, so a big raise from me would totally rule out top set from the range of hands my opponent would have in his head (because he'd naturally assume I'd be slow-playing it).

This stupid bet means "check" and all your actions should be based on that premise.  If you were intending to check anyway just call, if you were intending to bet, then raise the amount that you were going to bet.  The players that bet like this always do what they were going to do if they checked in the first place i.e. call your raise if they they had check called and reraise if they had check raised.

So with this hand do you want to take the risk that he hits a str8 and takes a chunk of money from you?  If you take that risk what is the reward?  Also you must consider your overall game.  I want this player to fold J8 when I have AQ in a future hand when he "checks"  So I "bet" here about 2/3s pot.

Heeze is at seat 1 with 400.00
JespBP is at seat 2 with 363.00
Vassell is at seat 3 with 504.70
Mr End is at seat 4 with 360.40
ElefantMis is at seat 5 with 371.85
I GOAT FU is at seat 6 with 362.76
Dr_Jones is at seat 7 with 402.00
Tigerente is at seat 8 with 104.34
dondolla is at seat 9 with 222.60
Netto is at seat 10 with 401.60

Dr_Jones posts the large blind 4.00
I GOAT FU posts the small blind 2.00

I GOAT FU: --, --
Dr_Jones: --, --
Tigerente: --, --
dondolla: --, --
Netto: --, --
JespBP: --, --
Vassell: --, --
Mr End: Kc, Kd
ElefantMis: --, --

Pre-flop:

Tigerente: Fold
dondolla: Fold
Netto: Raise  8.00
JespBP: Fold
Vassell: Fold
Mr End: Raise  24.00
ElefantMis: Fold
I GOAT FU: Fold
Dr_Jones: Fold
Netto: Call 24.00

Flop (Board: 7d, Ks, 8c):

Netto: Bet  4.00
Mr End: Raise  16.00
Netto: Call 16.00

Turn (Board: 7d, Ks, 8c, 8d):

Netto: Bet  12.00
Mr End: ?

Now what? what has he got?

repeat..this is about maxmimising return, not a pot I lose

At this stage I would be tempted to type 'PUT IN A PROPER BET' into the chat box, then hit the All-in button...  :D

He has Ak, 77 or QQ he doesn't want to lay down. If he had AA i don't see him flat calling your raise on the flop. Put in a 2/3 pot bet and value bet on the river. I put him AK probably.

and of course my raise to $16 on the flop is a pot builder/tickler designed to keep my customer rather than a raise to $50.....


so who raises here?

who flat calls and then raises whatever he bets on the river?

Now I just call to represent a worried AK.  As a result he may bet big on the river as either a value bet when he thinks he's ahead or a bluff.

If he checks on the river or puts in a small bet I overbet the pot.  If he bets big on the river I mimimum raise - giving him the opportunity to go all-in

I raise him right here, he has two pair Aces and 88 or AK so he's not going anywhere now. i make it $50 to see the river.

you might even get lucky, you could even end up getting  re raised

He has one of 3 things:

A monster (he thinks)

A hand that he would like to get to a showdown but won't be willing to stack off with

Nothing

The correct strategy here is get the maximum from all these scenarios.  Raising here will lose the last two - he won't like it with the second because he then has to call another bet.  A big bet on the river will get possibly raised by the first and the third and called by the second because he knows his maximum loss.

I'm raising half the pot. if I win it there Im happy. He still has outs....

rotflmfao

Heeze is at seat 1 with 400.00
JespBP is at seat 2 with 363.00
Vassell is at seat 3 with 504.70
Mr End is at seat 4 with 360.40
ElefantMis is at seat 5 with 371.85
I GOAT FU is at seat 6 with 362.76
Dr_Jones is at seat 7 with 402.00
Tigerente is at seat 8 with 104.34
dondolla is at seat 9 with 222.60
Netto is at seat 10 with 401.60

Dr_Jones posts the large blind 4.00
I GOAT FU posts the small blind 2.00

I GOAT FU: --, --
Dr_Jones: --, --
Tigerente: --, --
dondolla: --, --
Netto: --, --
JespBP: --, --
Vassell: --, --
Mr End: Kc, Kd
ElefantMis: --, --

Pre-flop:

Tigerente: Fold
dondolla: Fold
Netto: Raise  8.00
JespBP: Fold
Vassell: Fold
Mr End: Raise  24.00
ElefantMis: Fold
I GOAT FU: Fold
Dr_Jones: Fold
Netto: Call 24.00

Flop (Board: 7d, Ks, 8c):

Netto: Bet  4.00
Mr End: Raise  16.00
Netto: Call 16.00

Turn (Board: 7d, Ks, 8c, 8d):

Netto: Bet  12.00
Mr End: Call 12.00

River (Board: 7d, Ks, 8c, 8d, 4d):

Netto: Bet  60.00
Mr End: Raise  120.00
Netto: Call 120.00

Mr End  Kc Kd has a full house 

Netto  Kh Ac has two pairs

Mr End wins the pot of 474.00 with a full house  Kc Kd Ks 8c 8d.

So predictable :D

I wonder if you could've got another 60 out of him.