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PokerStars Game #3902621556: Tournament #19224823, Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2006/02/08 - 11:27:19 (ET)
Table '19224823 17' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: BolivarCigar (1150 in chips)
Seat 2: JP 5-time (1450 in chips)
Seat 3: quickshooter (1976 in chips)
Seat 4: MrMan33 (1550 in chips)
Seat 5: beehatch (2517 in chips)
Seat 6: MrDonut (1245 in chips)
Seat 7: Hörhö2 (1470 in chips)
Seat 8: Pippopie (72 in chips)
Seat 9: Zgaga (2070 in chips)
quickshooter: posts small blind 15
MrMan33: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to JP 5-time [Td 7d]
beehatch: folds
MrDonut: folds
Hörhö2: folds
Pippopie: folds
Zgaga: raises 90 to 120
BolivarCigar: folds
JP 5-time: raises 195 to 315
quickshooter: folds
MrMan33: folds
Zgaga: calls 195
*** FLOP *** [Ad 3h Jd]
Zgaga: bets 350
JP 5-time: raises 785 to 1135 and is all-in
Zgaga: calls 785
*** TURN *** [Ad 3h Jd] [6h]
*** RIVER *** [Ad 3h Jd 6h] [2c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Zgaga: shows [Qc Ac] (a pair of Aces)
JP 5-time: shows [Td 7d] (high card Ace)
MrMan33 said, "wow that was stupid"
Zgaga collected 2945 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2945 | Rake 0
Board [Ad 3h Jd 6h 2c]
Seat 1: BolivarCigar folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: JP 5-time (button) showed [Td 7d] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 3: quickshooter (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: MrMan33 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: beehatch folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: MrDonut folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Hörhö2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Pippopie folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Zgaga showed [Qc Ac] and won (2945) with a pair of Aces

Surely I MUST have AK here :)

Honest opinions pls

seems a bit like FPS to me.

re-raise preflop is ok if you want to try and take down raggedy flops... its a variation of representation.. but once he has lead into that flop, you can't realistically expect to have much FE, if any.. so you are essentially betting on the assumption that you will go to showdown, and with just a FD, I don't think thats such a great idea.

I'd just fold the flop, and most likely fold preflop as well.



 

You risked a fifth of your stack on a cock-waving pre-flop re-raise with rags when there was no situational pressure to do so.

You then did an all-in half-pot re-raise with nothing but the third nut flush draw.

Were you colluding with your opponent?

I make no judgment on this play.

I’m a little baffled by it, But I’m a relatively tight player, so I can understand how someone aggressive might take down a few pots like this. My only question is, IF this was a live EPT event would you have played it the same way ?

JP. I've seen this before from you!

I remember a Stars comp, we were on the same table, and you shoved it back up a pre-flop raiser in the early stages of the comp with Q8 and then expressed disbelief that the guy called your all in with AQ suited.

I expect you've won loads of comps and got into loads of chipped up situations by a) getting them to believe you have AK or b) actually outdrawing them so I don't actually call it stupid but unless you have specific knowledge of your opponent then I think almost all are going to cal, you here

Live, against top notch players, I expect quite a few will lay down pre-flop....presumably this is what you were hoping for

It seems to me you were playing the player here, and not the cards, yet you didn't tell us anything about the other guy.

What were your reasons for playing the hand in this way?

Ok this was what I wanted to know.

Basically I have a very good record in NL tournaments but these $100 and $150 freezeouts on stars are proving hard work for me and i seem to go out in the same way every time.
I will get no hands and blind off til I have to lump it all in and i generally run into something. I thought I was playing them too tight.
Now i am not a person to go "oh the structure is too fast" etc I am looking at a way to adapt to these fast paced tourneys as i think they are great value.
In UBs equivalent $100 tourneys it has a LONGER clock, MORE starting chips MORE levels AND the running antes kick in much later.

On UB i seem to amass a big stack with ease where as on stars I have trouble getting above the starting stack. Now you might say UB is easier but the general consensus is that Ub has better quality players than Stars.

So I will play a few more and will try unconventional methods to accumulate some chips.

And Bundle with a big stack and in the bigger events my style can be loose aggressive.

thoughts on adapting to different structures and words from people who do well in these

He had been playing many hands and I was pretty sure I could out play him with position.
Also, I was willing to "gamble" to double my chips as grinding it out in this comp doesn't work for me.
I also thought he was betting to see if I had an ace and would pass to the all in.

There you go, the play makes sense now.

I've been having the same problems recently - I can't seem to 'get going' and when I try and force things, I get my fingers burned.

I used to do ok in these but have started to play the re - buys a lot more on stars, and these would probably suit your game better JP as getting a stack going in these seems to be a relatively simple affair.

I think you over estimate the ability of your opponent to lay down an AQ here, i always find patients pays in these tourneys with a lot of limping in postion early on, catching a hand and taking them out. There is usually an even mix of tight players to whom the $100 is a sizeable buy-in and your $100 is nothing type so once you establish which is which on your table you can use your style accordingly.

Personally i love your play here but just think he ain't good enough to get rid.

PMSL
 rotflmfao

In answer the original question, no I don't agree with that guy. He was wrong to say it and what he said was wrong. That's a double helping of wrongness.

While there was a certain amount of cock-waving I liked the play. There's too much going on in the hand to go into it in minute detail but I think on the balance you showed a much greater understanding of successful tournament play than AQ man.

I love the fact you had the balls to re-raise pre-flop with suited rags, though I prefer them spaced a little more closely (7-9 or 8-10 say). In these dark days where everyone has read the same FPP-purchasable poker books you need to think outside the box to get anywhere. You may as well make these gambling plays in the second level rather than five hours in.

Having said that, once he'd bet out so convincingly I think trying to get him to fold with the all-in raise was very ambitious. I think you probably knew that you were taking the arse-end of a coin-flip but frustration got the better of you. In his place I'd have called too. If you won't see through the hand with AQ when you flop an A then why play it in the first place.

Bob

Maybe....

but he put all his chips in with rubbish.....If he gets a call here the WORST I expect him to be up against is a better flush draw....

But that's what this board is all about Bobwah - picking over the carcasses of dead hands like ravenous vultures until only bones remain.

Well alright then, what kind of ravenous hand vulture would I be to leave it there.

With only the flush draw to fall back on, JP would've known the chance of winning the hand at this point was only 40% at best. Hence the semi-bluff. The idea of the semi-bluff is two-fold; disguise a drawing hand and try to win the pot without a showdown. In this case it's more about winning without a showdown and not having to draw to the flush. By making the move JP's given himself a better chance of winning the pot.

The problem is the way the hand was played suggested very strongly that the semi-bluff would be called. The guy bet out convincingly after being re-raised a considerable amount pre-flop, to me that says he's hit or has a very strong drawing hand, neither of which is good news to JP. I'd say if you played the same hand ten times you'd be lucky to get one fold in that spot. So the odds remain firmly in AQ-man's favour.

Personally I'd have folded to the flop-bet, but I see huge value in making this sort of move early in a tournament. To JP's credit it was the pre-flop re-raise that makes me certain that his later semi-bluff was a wasted effort. Being bet into was a big sign of the opposition's strength and moving all-in despite this was a little bit poker-by-numbers. But as I mentioned before I put this down solely to frustration, JP is a class act. 

To say he put all his chips in with rubbish isn't fair because the theory behind it was sound. And he was better off being called by AQ than he would've been against a bigger flush draw, that would leave just 4 outs.

I think I'm done but I'm happy for my reasoning to be torn apart. It's the only way I'll learn :)

Bob

JP,
i generalise here but if you are gonna bring your moves and come and play on stars with us cyberfishes - remember this.....

idiots don't fold pretty hands - if they like it, they play it regardless of what hey think you have. - simple.  Save your moves for rocks like me - i WILL fold.  idiot americans ont'internet DON'T

I agree. No way he lays down AQ after the flop after calling a reraise out of position before it and betting out so confidently. Therefore your play amounts to gambling on a  very average flush draw with no high-card or straight potential.

I agree with previous posters that judging by the bets of your opponent it is very unlikely that he will fold to your reraise especially as he has you covered chipwise.

My only other comment would be from your quote.....


You're nowhere near that situation here though....over 1500 chips and blinds only 15/30. Re-raising twice with nothing against a bigger stack seems an unnecessary risk to your tournament life here.  You can afford to wait until you really do have AK !

I agree.  How can AQ possibly be good here after being re-raised pre-flop and re-raised all in on the flop?  What could you have that he is beating, except a bluff/semibluff?

I think he was simply playing his hand without giving any thought to what your bets were telling him.  Alternatively, your opponent may be very good, and understood exactly what you were doing  ;goodvevil;

Either way, the third player who said 'wow that was stupid' clearly did not understand what was going on.

JP,

Nothing worng with your play at all, after spending a lot of time learning from great players over the last year or so. The only way you win tournaments is piling on continued pressure straight from the start, re raising T7 here is a quality play IMO and its why players like Patrik Antonius are starting to dominate poker, they are unreadable, its clear that your opponent with AQ is a few steps behind you and is pretty clueless and wouldnt pass AQ on a 654 flop i bet.

UL, load another game up bud.

If i am playing JP i play AQ the same way

I think you need to pick your targets better :)

Against the poorer players, you have to just play ABC poker, they're not good enough to appreciate (or fold) to subtle plays. I think there's something like that in Super System 2.

Dogs don't do kungfu. Pulling a move like this on a seasoned pro, or anylitical poker super brain would of worked, esp at early doors.
Did you out play yourself?

I particularly like the PokerStars $150 NL multi, I've played it 17 times and final tabled twice in fields of 400+ runners.

In my opinion the best way to play the first three levels of this tournament is solid ABC poker. Included in this is seeing as many flops as possible in late position in unraised pots during the first two levels, as your implied odds are huge. The reason for this is quite simple, half the field in this tournie really don't have a clue and will not laydown anything semi-decent. You could fold every hand for the first thirty minutes and then when you eventually hit something you will still get paid off.

The particular hand you posted obviously I would fold preflop, the only time I make a reraise steal in an online multi is when I have in the region of 12-18 big blinds and it is highly likely that the iniital raiser is stealing - so if I was small blind and you open raised on the button for example and I have a stack of 14 big blinds I would be tempted to reraise allin with virtually anything as this move would add a nice 30% to my stack ;)

It's utterly frustrating when you go a few tournies seeing no hands and not hitting any flops, but even if you are card dead and end the first hour with 1,200 chips you still have a chance.

Er, Hong Kong Phooey ?
 8)

if you remember he was rubbish at it, and if you know the definition of kungfu,(lots of poker players have good kungfu), then yes doogs don't do it.

okay who fancied the female cop in this, the trashy NYPD chick?

Calling With AQ preflop even if he knows your style jp is still a terrible play because if he didn't hit ace or queen on the flop he'd fold to your all in on the flop and curse his 'bad luck'
If he truly thought you were making a move, with the number of chips in the pot he would have moved all in.
It's not even possible he was trying to trap you on the flop because he bet out..........very bizarre play in my opinion.

I think when you pushed all in on the flop although your arguement that he may be testing you to see if you liked the ace, is a good one. You probably knew that he was most likely to call in spite of the obvious threat of you holding AK or better.
We have all seen KK or QQ make that call...........