blonde poker forum

Quick question, I cant quite grasp the reason why players lose their cool when some one uses a bit of speach play, I happen to like speach play ( not rub downs mind  ) its part of my game, however i seem to find that the ..... OLD timers have a problem with it.

The question is this, Speach play, should it be allowed, or is it a big no no???

A big no no coz you slow up the game you big fanny.

Get an internal monologue  ;goodvevil;

I'm in two minds over this one to be honest. It is not done in other games like chess and snooker etc. but I guess it is a little different. I guess the opposite to speech play, should you be allowed to zip yourself up under your coat, hide under the table or go off to the toilet while the other person thinks? Anyway, with speech play the other person always has the option not to answer and ignore the player that’s doing it.

Its probably because up until about 18 months ago all forms of speech play were banned at the table. Different card rooms probably have different rules now on what isnt allowed and what is allowed but i would guess that most players are still so used to all speech play being banned that they have a problem with it when it occurs.

Thanks to online poker taking off in a big way most players who started by playing online think its part and parcel of the game. Unfortunately online there is no-one to immediately police any comments made and so things can be said that shouldnt be allowed and can only be reported at a later ti me. Its trying to find a happy medium that keeps everybody happy.

And there in lies the problem - you cant keep all the people happy all the time.........

Has anyone heard of this rule? I don't know if it is an actual rule of the casino but the person who told me said it was. They reckon that you were allowed to tell the players what hand you had but you weren't allowed to say the truth. I know, it doesn't make sense. So for example if you had pocket queens, say, you were allowed to tell the table you were holding pocket 10s but if you said pocket queens then you would be breaking the rules. How stupid is that? Has anyone heard that before. If that was a rule I haven't got a clue how they would police it!

I've heard the opposite - if you make any claims about your own cards, you'd better be telling the truth otherwise you lose the pot.

OK here's an example or two

" why are you betting, I know you have not got the flush" or "No big card on the flop, you're in trouble"


It's friendly and goes with the banter, however I dont see where a person would have a problem.

As for revealing my hole cards, I'd never do that, as far as I know if you do your hand is dead.

Talking about Live play, I think Speech play can be utilised very effectively. Players like Phil Peters, Neil Channing etc are masters at extracting a call when they want one.

Of course this doesn't extend to abuse or belittling someone but I enjoy that aspect of the game

I think that making comments on the the hand in progress for the sole reason of trying to put your opponent off is just plain wrong and should not be part of the game.  I can't think of any other supposed game of skill where such behaviour would be allowed.

Ac

I'd never belittle someone at the table, that's just bad form IMHO, When I use speach play its either to get or to drive action away, I'd never go down the road that you see the likes of Tony G using, when you start that trash talk with the rubdowns and the general verbal abuse I think its time you take a break from the game.

 :-X ;D

Rub downs and chirps and insults = NO!

Speach Play, banter etc. = Deffo Yes. - its part of the game.

personally i love speech play and think as long as you are involved in the hand you can say what you want.(no insults )
but if youve already folded you should stay silent.

you should also not encourage others to call when you more than heads up.

speech play makes the game more fun and if you are good at it it adds an extra element to your game and is just another form of bluffing.

alas not many casinos or cardrooms allow it so i have to stick to inthebelly organised nights for speech play.

I often find I'm over come by a bit of verbal sometimes....infact alot of the time! I enjoy it and it doesn't piss of many people, a god player wont listen anyway....most the time im chatting at a table its cuz im discussing my bad beats....I can be there all night!!

yeah ive got shortstack off many a pot with a bit of verbal  ;D

Speech play - a GREAT way of getting a tell on someone. ;)

Speech play, I don't care if it goes or not, as long as the rules are uniform and enforced

The only thing I don't like, (and I imho is cheating) is declaring your intentions before it's your turn to act, as this can alter the action of others who act before you

I like speech play, it makes the table more enjoyable and when youre playing 10 handed you play so few hands it breaks the monotony. This is an example of a speech play that I did in the £750 at Luton a few weeks ago. I guess I got what I deserved and I guess I was trying to induce a call from Geoff Duvall.

Geoff and me had nearly 40% of the chips in play with 11 people left. Bubble time.

Geoff raises UTG A7
I call button 55
Flop 357
Geoff bets 50k
I say, "come on Geoff, you've missed that flop" and move all-in for 200k
He calls and hits runner runner straight, so maybe there the poker gods do believe in justice.

I'm sure some people would think I am a XXXX for inducing the call, but I see it as part the game which makes poker so much more facinating that 52 cards. The only think I don't like is "slowrolling" the NUTS when a player has set you all-in, this is just malicious (unless he has done it to you before!)

Cheers Rob

I personally enjoy speach play and any banter at the table at all.  I think sometimes peopla get too serious and a bit of banter lightens things up.  I use speach play often but normally I wait and pick my victim!  I wait to see who gets riled the most by other players and then I concentrate on them especially if I do have a hand! 8)

yes banter is good but when it starts spilling over to aggression, its not.

in case anyone is confused he means Jeff Duvall (blondeite Jeff D)

secondly, I saw this hand when I was updating thecomp for blonde. It was great speech play, it got him to call a massive bet, no doubt about it

Most people's perception of live poker is of a gambling game played laddish blokes in smoke filled rooms.  I appreciate that it is these very qualities that many of the people on this board enjoy about the game

But if it is ever to be taken seriously as a game of skill I don't see how deliberately trying to verbally put off your opponents can be part of it.

 Ac

Well I dissaggree, there are plenty of sports where speach play is a big part. Baseball, Rugby, Football, Darts, Boxing, Elephant Polo.  I'm sure there are more, I can see where the problem is in getting inside your opponents head to get the action you want.

If its acceptable in other sports why should poker be different?

You can't get close enough to your opponents in Elephant Polo to bring speech play to bear. You're both on the back of great big mammoths.

Hearing can be a problem. As a kid, when you're outside playing a spot of the ol' Elephant Polo in the garden, you'd be lucky to hear your mother call you into dinner.

This bugger is on a roll.

Elephant's aint that noisy if the're just running around  :D

The games you mention are physical sports that are in no way comparable to an intellectual game that is entirely based on just four betting decisions.  The 'speechplay' you cite in these sports usually just comprises of boorish insults and personal abuse anyway. Surely you are not suggesting that we allow this at the poker table? 

And I could equally cite such 'speechplay free' games as golf or snooker where a players conduct during the game and personal integrity are considered fundamental to the sport. I think I would sooner see tournament poker go down that road if it is ever to make the transformation in to a properly regulated professional game.

Trying to influence your opponent’s decisions through series of verbal charades may give you a laugh (and maybe even an unfair advantage) but it doesn't add anything to the integrity of the game.

 Ac

I aggree that you have a point, That speach play in poker can be taken in the wrong context i.e. overly aggressive or insulting.

What I mean is the " you have a flush??"  or the "your top pair is no good" I see nothing wrong with it, Although its good to get a difference of opinion.

I would point out that golf has evolved of late and the speach play in golf alone is rife, It may not happen on the course, but it does happen through press conferences and pre match greetings etc.

I do recall there being a stink created over a chess match about 10 or 12 years back when one player managed to tilt the other befoe getting to the table, I will appologise as I cant remember who was playing, the only reason i remember it is because Carol Vorderman was commentating on it and it was televised.

You do make a good point Ace, I dont share that opinion but if we all did this place would be boring.

I would never engage in speech play myself - I'm not made up that way and I wouldn't get away with it. But I whole heartedly agree that it should be allowed, as long as it doesn't become insulting or offensive.

One of the biggest satisfactions I have in poker is sitting there like a rock while someone is giving me the verbals trying to get me to talk about the hand I hold after a big bluff. I'll never forget the first "biggish" tournament I qualified for and not cracking under an interrogation from Bandit Evans that seemed to last about half an hour. I absolutely refused to answer his questions. When he passed, he tapped the table and said "well played", which shows that he would have got more information from other players.

I think it therefore gives me an advantage over a player that would get annoyed at such play and who loses their cool, and maybe even over the player dishing it out if they don't get the info that they want. Part of the game, surely? I'd rather have a debate on banning sunglasses........!!

Personally speech play is great, and you can pick up massive tells on people, however
one ruling is that you cannot say your exact hand to a player for your hand being ruled dead
and for heavens sake why in the world would you want your opponent to know your hand anyways
unless you were colluding.................

I was in a vegas tournament and a guy on my table stating to another guy look sonny I got aces if you want to go out of the tournament now then call me.  The other guy thought for a few moments and folded showing pocket kings and
I called over the TD and told him what happend and said they had told each other their hands and colluded, the dealer agreed and he gave them both 15min penalties. 

If you do use speech play, be careful   

There's trash talking as a part of a bunch of other skill games. Boxing would be a good example - they even organise an official pre-fight rubdown contest under the pretense of weighing the guys.

And you should see those Chess guys talk trash ! :) (Ok, the last bit was a lie - but still

edit: ok - there are a bunch of these already - sorry. But I'd just like to add that speech play is a great thing - if I wanted to sit silently playing hands I'd stay home and play online. Seriously - if someone can talk you into calling then you might want to revisit your decision making process. And there's plenty of times when "How silly are you going to feel, saying that you put all your chips in with that hand ?" has, in my opinion, swayed the decision.

for me there's two different types of speech play, one fine, one not. If you're in a hand and you ask a player "do you have an ace?" or "That flop's no good for your AK is it? you're gonna have to bluff at it now" or something is fine. if you can't keep your emotions to yourself when facing this kind of speach you have no business being at the table. HOWEVER, speech play between hands specifically designed to tilt players in future action is out of order. you can try and talk some ino out of your opponent without being rude or offensive.

Gotta be a contender for Post Of The Week, all things considered.........

Just a note on this, I played last night and I got called with my every pair of aces i had, And people called off their entire stack, All with good use of speach play. I was never rude, I just gave good banter, using abit of verbal, ensuring i was extracting those chips when I wanted them most.

It would be if he was being funny but I think he's serious  rotflmfao