blonde poker forum

Tonight i was lucky enough to make the final table at the £100 pot limit tournament at The Grosvenor Walsall Casino, but ended up being disgusted by the whole experience. The final table had been in progress for about an hour when I noticed that alot of the "local players" were checking the flops out and not betting against each other.
The following then happened, Local player in seat 9 raises another local players big blind (seat 3) and the player in seat 3 then proceeds to have a slanging match with the player in seat 9 saying that they agreed not to raise each other. This makes a mockery and goes against the spirt of the game. to make things worse the following happened about 10 minutes later.
Local player (seat 9) on small blind calls local player (seat 1) on big blind. the flop comes  6d  5c  Aspades . The player in seat 9 has made a set with his  6c  6s and the player in seat 1 made two pairs with his  Ad  5h. no betting was made and the flop was checked out.

I then made  a conscious decision to basically gamble with any two cards and get myself out of there. I came 7th for £700.00.

A representative from Blue square was watching and commented that basically it was cheating. I was sat in the middle of three "local players" who would not bet against each other.

This tournament , from what I beleive was a ranking event and I beleive all the points should be stripped from all the players including myself. No comments or actions were taken by the management who were also watching the game.

Your comments would be greatly appreciated.

Mick, if I was you i would have stood up and called the cardroom supervisor over and DEMANDED that as there was obviously no chance of a fair game, they should just split the prize pool equally among the players... and then i would have told each individual player that you were going to name and shame them and make sure everyone was aware of the way they CHEAT.

Basically I am a big softie and didnt want tio make a official complaint. I don't really play poker for the money i play to WIN and usually bust out trying to. I have made a decision to not play any of the Walsall nightly competitions anymore, which will be to their detriment as unfortunately I normally lose on roulette.

If anything happens like this, I think it's important to make a noise about it before you get busted out of the tournament.

It might slow the game down to a stop, but it forces management to do something about it.

I have posted about this before Micky, and I sympathise.

It's mostly the old Rainbow players who have been playing(?) together for years.

They just don't seem to think that they're doing anything wrong.

'The following then happened, Local player in seat 9 raises another local players big blind (seat 3) and the player in seat 3 then proceeds to have a slanging match with the player in seat 9 saying that they agreed not to raise each other.'


Upon hearing those words I would have gone absolutely bananas, it is one thing suspecting collusion but verbal confirmation means action MUST be taken.  I would have demanded disqualification for the two players involved.

This is just plain cheating IMHO and cannot be tolerated, the fact that the management did nothing does not suprise me as when ever I have played at Walsall I have been unimpressed with the staff running one of Grosvenors flagship poker sites.

It's a joke that this can happen. Do the management not want to offend the players?
What chance have you got if you are the only player at the table not in a deal with everyone else.

UL mick.

This is disgraceful.  They admit to collusion and nothing is done?

 ;technophobe;

Crap like this is the reason so many people stay away from playing poker in casinos - they assume that locals cheat. To do it so blatantly, and admit to it out loud, must mean that they don't actually realise they are doing anything that wrong - they just view it as helping out their friends.

To have management not do anything about it means either a) card room management is very weak or b) there are instructions not to upset the 'locals' if they happen to be donators in the casino.

As someone else said:

(http://www.jerzbear.com/media/movies/images/509f.jpg)

You would not of been able to keep me quiet if this happened to me.

I would of kicked up such a fuss that either they were BOTH disqualified , or I was banned!!

This stinks of course

I would do the following

Write to Grosvenor Head office, and the Walsall General Manager...giving names of both the players which you will get from the official results and the Walsall staff present.

I would copy the letter to Jon Shoreman at Poker in Europe

In the letter I would state that the offending players should be banned, that there should be a disciplinary procedure against the staff for dereliction of duty and that all ranking points for the final table should be stripped from the competitors.

I would not set foot in that casino out of principle until I got a satisfactory response.


I must also clarify, I was on Monday's final table with seven locals, and the game was played hard and fair. I would imagine here we are talking about a small group not the vast majority of Walsall players . In my experience its a difficult place to play (the Walsall players are GOOD) but I have never come across this.

Many many times I have heard players openly say "We don't bet against each other" 

Not just at Walsall, but everywhere.

I have even heard them give a commentry to each other as the board cards are dealt, "Ive made the straight"  "I hit two pair"

The other thing that happens quite openly is one player picks his chips up to bet, looks at his mate, and his mate picks up his cards and holds them in the "I'm passing these" position

Imho, Dealers should be taught to look out for soft play, and shoud also look at the hole cards that are folded in some situations.  The dealers at Annabelles in Coventry used to do this and often found that someone had folded the nuts

hi mick,ed giddins here,after you left it got worse,the short stack [seat 9] went allin for approx 17k and his local mate in seat3 [who had 50k+] folded his big blind to him [blinds 4-8k]and then flipped over his cards and showed  5d 5h.

Simply disgusting.

Like Paul said, i would have either had them chucked or been barred myself.

Ed did you not kick up a fuss? Or were you just so shocked to be at the final table again!!  ;goodvevil;

Unfortunately guys this is something that happens up and down the country, although the midlands has become very well known for "same village play", i personally think its disgraceful especialy during a lower festival event, where itsa some peoples best chance to mix it up with the big players in a festival enviroment.

Its a very hard thing to prove and act against in normal play, but on a final table shorthanded(?) really there is no excuse for this, neither player could claim they didnt know where they were in regards to the hand (that excuse wouldnt fly after making it through a field of 100+). In the first instance (before any verbal admissioin) both players should have at least been warned about their conduct, but after a verbal admission and further misgivings then both players should have been removed from play IMO.

Same village play is disgraceful even in £10 comps. Last week we got mauled for having all cards shown in showdowns (which i agree was too much for certain events) but in circumstances like this it goes a long way to stopping the problem, or at least makes us aware of whats going on.

Personally name and shame them, make the rankings people aware of this, and make it known it wont be stood for!!

If the cards are not shown down, at least the dealer can look at them to make sure everything is on the level

i agree Tom, hence why we have the rule that ANY dealer or ANY supervisor, can see ANY cards the so wish, especially to try and keep things on the level. Unfortunately for Mick, this certainly wasn't on the level in any way

Dont necessarily think the 5d 5h was an auto call , but the no betting between the set and 2 pair was bang out of order. I cant believe nothing was said to the 2 involved.

how can holding  5d 5h in the big blind not call an allin for 17k when you already have put in 8k

its only 9k to win a pot of 29k

the big blind holds 50k so his not allin

and at worst he must think its 50-50

its an auto call its nearly 4-1 his getting

Comments please Dani?

I think that saying the Midlands has a reputation for this sort of thing is a bit strong.

not really, i'm not saying it doesnt happen elsewhere, cos it does. but when i been elsewhere pepel havealways mentioned it. Especially in referennce to some clubs in the region.

I can't speak for Walsall ifm, I don't know the scene there well enough. But at Gala Notts it happens a LOT. And the thing is, the guys do not think it is wrong, they discuss it at the table quite openly. But the chat dries up when I call them, equally openly, cheats.

Yep, I agree.

Totally out of order and, even though I'm normally reserved at the table, I'd have to speak out here.

Being a local myself, I am aware of the players in question and am not surprised.

What is most disgusting is that no1 seems to come from my village.  ;tk;

Why is the dealer not qualified enough to spot this and report it?
Why did the cardroom manager not see this?
Why did the players not report this?
Why have the players not been banned and marched away from the premises in shame for cheating their fellow players?

Why would anyone play poker in this casino after that?

ditto the above questions for most Casinos around becasue this is no isolated example. It is just another example of players taking the shitty end of the stick and saying nothing/having nothing done about it.

Bobby, until people START shouting about these things, NOTHING will EVER be done!

As I have said before in this thread, you would of heard me making a fuss from the Carpark!!!  ;goodvevil;

But this was a ranking event played at one of the best venues in the country Paul, why is ther nobody in authority watching this event, or were they watching and either did nothing or did not spot what sounds like blatant collusion?

I agree with you, I would have gone barmy and probably made a few enemies but why should the honest players put up with that, To be honest I am amazed that neither Mick or Ed didnt create a fuss, my point is they shouldnt have to.

Just seen EdG talking about this on the show last night. Can't disagree with any of the comments, to make a final table and then to come up against this must be annoying to say the least. Only similar situation I have come up against is to be at the table and a very good friend makes the table as well. If he goes all in and you have a good hand, do you call or fold because he is your mate. Me I would call every time, but can understand that it is tempting to fold.

Anyone else troubled by the lack of response from the Walsall team on this issue so far?

I love to hear some sort of justification for how this sort of thing can be allowed at one of our premier venues.

Sheriff

yes

If you were to name and shame the players that do this on a regular basis,you would have a list as long as your arm(even longer) it goes on in lots of  casino's, nearly every night of the week,so let's stop kidding ourselves, at the end of the day it all comes down to Money and keeping the regular punters coming back night after night.Sorry if my post offends anyone of you teams out there,but I have witnessed this on several occasions and it winds me up.Hence my first post on blonde

no problem mate.  ;welcome;

you said it as you see it, we won't have a problem with that

I know for sure you will find very very few people on here who play as teams

People who are best mates on and off the table...Tikay and Julian Thew for example..... play each other harder than anything I have ever seen.

last october in a 100 re buy a simular thing happened to me at wallsall  .,after being raised pre flop ,
the flop came down a small flop at which i had top pair ,first man bets i reraise all in another 86000 after 10 mins drliberating ,an asian youth with a cap on , whod been staring at me through out ,he wasnt even in the pot ,
stood up and told the other man to call ,to which he promply did ,hence knocking me out of the final in 8th , the card room manager said he never saw anything , so nothing was done .
they should bar them all from every torny ,but nothing ever seems to happen.

Found the best forum on the net i see young lady..........

sorry its took me so long to reply. as ive been busy with home life of late. so ive only briefly been on the forum,this matter was brought only to my attention tonight, i dont wanna pass the book but i left early that evening as it seemed to be running smoothly we had plenty of staff and the supervisors had everything under control.

As i dont have all the facts i dont want to comment on this at this point. All i can say there will be a full investigation on to what went on during the final table. we will speak to all dealers, players and supervisors that were involved in the final and deal with any wrong doing accordingly.

Walsall and any grosvenor does'nt tolerate Collusion.

In sincerley horrified to find out this as it surely has cast a shadow over what was a successful festival.

Dani

We have removed the latest three Post from this thread, as things were becoming un-necessarily personal. We have no problem with the discussion, & it being fully aired, but we don't need to be throwing insults & accusations at each other in public.

Cool it please guys. Keep the personal insults & accusations to the PM service, & just debate the facts on the Open Forum.

Thanks.

im sticking to my pc.  Offline poker is fixed. :kiv:

Happened to me in Luton a few years ago in what was my first live tourney.  A well known local/pro made comments to the other two final table players, which I (as a newbie) didn't really understand, but thankfully the dealer did understand and made it know he wouldn't tolerate any more of it and nothing more was said.   You could argue once its been said once it doesn't need to be repeated, but I was happy with the way it was handled.   I am amazed that the dealer in this case said/did nothing.