blonde poker forum

I read a bit in the WPT magazine about playing AK and someone lost basically on a pair of kings and they asked Devilfish how he's have played the Cowboys and he said he'd have moved all in and then showed the cards before the other guy could make a descission.

Is it not bad form to show your opponants what cards you hold prior to them making a descission?

If he does his cards are dead aren't they?

Not sure,

He said he'd have showed to know where he was at.  He (Devilfish) said he'd rather just take the pot there than risk an ace or a flush coming and that his opponant would have to take a risk knowing what the other guy had.

Rules can vary on this but everywhere i play the rule is that you cannot bet further only call.
Your hand is NOT dead, they did try this at walsall a few months back and it backfired spectacularly!

The hand is NOT dead...this is the current rule in all Grosvenors.

Someone did something like this at one of the sit'n'gos on Saturday night.
Player in question was facing an all-in, only him left to either call or fold. He shows his two cards.
I assumed it was a fold, several other people at the table thought the same thing.
We later asked Mel (londonpokergirl) what the situation was, and she said it was allowed under those circumstances.

Aye I heard about this!

The ruling is he can only check or call, however its sometimes thought as being ungentlemanly!

His name was Dale and he was a bit upset about the decision when i was talking to him he should be it was ruled wrong....would he have won??

Apologies, I knew I was wrong as soon as I pressed 'post'.  Lets see if i can get get 2/2.

If you show you hand before acting surely it gives you a totally unfair advantage?  I thought as soon as you show your cards (before acting) they are dead.

Yeah, that's the fella.
I can't remember if he had the winning hand ... I think it was against SheriffFatman, maybe he could tell you. :)


That's wot I thought too. The idea is to read your opponent's reaction to the exposed hand. Dale's opponent was already all-in, so he could only call or fold, and I think it is that particular detail which made it a valid tactic. You learn something new every day.

I remember seeing someone try something like this on a TV poker tourney, and the TD told him he was out of order, and he had lost the hand ... I guess it is this which made me think it was an automatic default, whereas in actual fact there are circumstances in which it is allowed.

But even so, the guy who has gone all in might be bluffing, by showing his cards before he acts Dale potentially gets a unfair advantage by seeinng a physical reaction to his hand which could cost him a call, or earn him a fold.

If cards were shown on purpose to gage a reaction whilst not heads up then I would take action, to the point of disqualification. However if heads up then this is acceptable.

I believe this is the case when you expose your cards by accident, but if you deliberately expose them in a moody, I think they would be deemed dead.
Imagine someone being in a pot with a pal holding the nuts, and he turned them over to show his mate so he wouldnt put any more chips in the pot.

Apologies in advance for the pedantic question, but I'm genuinely keen to know ...
If two players went all-in, and you were the only player left to either call or fold, would it be valid? Not strictly heads-up, but the same circumstances.


Yeah, that's DEFINITELY not allowed. If there are any other players still to act, then you've just made a major booboo.

As this is not heads up, I wouldn't allow it for the reasons I Know It stated. What if your mate is the one left to call? It is only allowed in Heads Up play i.e. 2 people left in the tournament.

No, I mean if Player A goes all-in, Player B goes all-in, you are player C, your only options are call or fold, there is no other player left to act. Can you flip 'em over? I know it's a ridiculous " scenario, but these are the kinds of questions that keep me awake at night.

You can flip em over but you would have fofieted your hand if I saw it and it was on purpose.

Wow. That seems like a weird rule.
OK, thanks!

didnt something like this happen in monte carlo. a guy moned all in with the nut flush and then showed his hand before the other guy could call. somebody suggested he might of done it so not to be outdrawn by 2 pair or a set. i think it was on the bubble

Ive seen the DEAD HAND rule applied at both Luton and Walsall so we adopted this rule at our club.
Basically it can be different at any club you play.

There needs to be a Universal rule. I saw a guy push all in on TV, everyone folded except the BB who stared him down for a min or two then flipped over QQ, the comentator said he was looking for a tell before he decided on his move, 30 seconds later he folded.

The other guy had KK but to his credit he never showed him.

From experience the hand is not dead, but the cards were flipped by accident! This is seen as bad etiquette!

i played on a table with Ram Vaswani and he'd go all in virtually every hand, without seeing his cards and then turn over his cards before anyone had chance to act. I know this is a completely different scenario but it was great to be a part of.

Different clubs would have different rulings - its always best to know what the club ruling is first before having your cards mucked due to a misunderstanding.

It was fairly late on in the SNG, 5 handed.

He was all in on the turn for 5000 chips, 2800 in the pot.

My stack was about 7/8000, chip leader.

I had  Kc Qd in the bb.
Opponent limps.
I check called the  Qs 7h 3d flop (something like that anyway, there was a Q and a 7 and it was rainbow with one diamond)
Turn  9d
Wanted to check-raise all in here but i checked and he pushed.
Tried to get a read by speaking to him, kinda thought he might have a pair and a flush draw or a straight/flush draw and was making a move for the pot as i looked weak/passive in this hand.
Flipped my cards over he was like "wow i never put you on KQ" as he moved his cards into the muck.
I said "my cards are live, what are you doing?"

Well everyone at the table disagreed that my hand was live and then my opponent mucked his cards so i didn't argue it further. Couldn't find mel a the time.

He told me he had 7d 4d.

To make things worse i suffered 2 bad beats after this got  Kd Kc cracked by  Qh 3c when it hit one of its 5 outs after the money went in on a Q high flop.
Then some donkey called Decider/GPS doubled though me when he couldnt lay down an OESD for all his chips.

I blame it all on wearing In The Belly's shades during the match  8) cursed with bad luck  :D

So many things wrong here I dont know where to start?

Firstly you said you were trying to get a read off him by talking, I take it that didn't work so you tried exposing your cards deliberately to get a different read? Unless there are only 2 people left in the tourny this is a big no no in my book (not to say different TDs and places have different rules, so I am just commenting on what i would do)

Secondly, if the guy was all in then his cards must be exposed unless the opposition passes, as to stop chip passing etc.
As the dealer did not stop him mucking or try and salvage the cards then it should be assumed that the dealer thought you had passed too. I cannot think of a situation like this that I would actually allow you to keep your cards unless heads up.

Thirdly I would probably issue a warning for extremely bad sportsmanship for pulling a stunt like that. Even if it was the Blonde Bash!

Lastly Fancy wearing ITBs shades everyone knows they are cursed, thats why he wasnt wearing them.

As I said earlier this is only my interpretation on the rules, others may differ drastically so please dont take offence at my understanding of the situation EDIT LOL just reread original

You are thinking of the John Kabbaj incident. His oppo announced "all-in" & John gathered his stack together with the intention of calling, as he held the K flush. But before he could, Oppo turned over A-Q diamonds - the stone-cold nuts! - so John, who had not said "call" - simply said "pass" & that was that. But this was a Thomas Kremser Tourney, & Big TK quickly suspended the Oppo for 15 minutes for showing his hand.

In fact, the guy was not seeking any advantage - ALL 5 cards were dealt, so he was only disadvantaging himself, but he just got a bit excited, & seeing - as he thought - John about to call, (which John WOULD have if Oppo had not shown) he exposed his hand a tad too soon.

But worse than the 15 minute penalty was the loss of all those chips he woulda won off John!

So, as it turned out, in THIS case the Penalty was not appropriate to the crime, (discretion should ALWAYS be applied) but then again, I'd rather a few harsh penalties, than no penalties at all, as is generally the case in the UK.

Flog em all  :D

Shoot 'em.

Knock on their doors and then run away, giggling to yourself.

Noflops That new avatar is going to drive me potty. lol

is it a dance from pulp fiction or has he lost something ? :D

There were only 2 people left in the hand. I can't see how it matters how many are left in the tournie as long as we are heads up in the hand and the only action is on me to call or fold.
I was trying to determine whether he had just hit 2 pair or was making a move/semi-bluff and if I have the ability to figure out how confident an average player is by talking to them then i don't see why I cant unless it's down as black and white as forbidden by the house.
"No table talk" etc. is so last decade ! I dont really care if others at the table think i'm being unsportsmanlike as long as i'm not breaking any rules.
I've only ever had people get upset with my antics like this when playing in places like london, vegas everyone is doing it.

It was BBII and the main element was fun. What i did is what makes poker fun and interesting for me but I may have showed a bit more class and respect if the stakes were higher.

I don't know but I love it.

Yeah what's with these daft avatars? sheesh

There is nothing wrong with trying to get a read off a player by talking to him. I was saying that maybe you didn't get the answers you were looking for by this method, so therefore pulled a stroke by showing him the cards to get a better read.

The difference between showing when you are heads up i.e. 2 people left in the tourny and 2 people in a pot against each other is whilst only 2 people are left in tourny, chip passing would be pretty pointless?

[/quote]
"No table talk" etc. is so last decade!
[/quote] God bless the tele

If what you was doing was making poker fun, then why does someone feel agrieved by it. I know it was BB2 but I am just trying to make the point that if anyone reads this thread and is not sure of the rules then they would be putting their chips at risk in some venues.