blonde poker forum

First the good news in that I made the final table at the Rendevous in Brighton last night. However I busted out in 5th and here is the hand:
Rough chip counts
Player 1 - Me - 16000
P2 20000
P3 41000
P4 6000
P5 15000
P6 20000
I am first to act and get Kc Kh
As I am first to act I call at 2000, hoping to find someone with a raise that I could reraise.
P2 fold
p3 fold
p4 fold
p5 small blind calls
p6 big blind checks and the flop
 8c Ts 6c
p5 goes all in. The history on this player is that he regularly goes all in with medium pairs such as a pair of sevens and he has also been showing these hands when everyone folds.
P6 goes all in. This guy was quite short on chips until he had a few lucky rivers and it wouldn't surprise me if he was going for the flush. In addition both players always raise when they have a hand preflop.
Having thought this through, if I am right I am still favourite and I call.
P5 shows
 Kd 8s
P6 shows
 6c 2c
The good news is that I am right, and still around 55+% favourite.
Turn
 Jc
River
 8d
I am out in 5th Place. I realise that in hindsight I should have raised preflop and this may have slowed their all in action and they probably would have folded preflop. My question is should I have called? I made the call in an attempt to try to win the tournament and wasn't too worried if I was slightly higher placed, but I am kicking myself at not raising and making this call.

you want to complain that there are 2 6 of clubs in the deck.

you should of raised preflop. i wouldn't limp utg hoping for a reraise 6 handed. it would be nice to double up here which is what you were trying to do but if the blinds are 1k/2k if you only collect those you are adding 20% to your stack.

but yes i still think you should of called. the sb could just be trying to pick up the money in the middle and you are not too worried about the short stack on the BB. you had the right read on the SB and were in front.

unlucky mate.

there's nothing wrong with this IF you were playing to try and win the tournamrent overall.
e.g. already comfortably in the money for the night and wanna get the victory under your belt.

however. if your plan was to make as much money as possible then i'd say the utg limp was a bad move. i'd probably push hoping for a lower pair somewhere to call me. if not. you've just acculated enough chips to hold the same stack for another 6 hands. in which time 2 or 3 players could have gone and your prize money doubled!

as you don't really say what your plan of action was it's hard to say how you played it was right or not. my advice would be always know why you're doing what you're doing in a tournament and set an objective for yourself at the end of every level.

Leaving aside the pre flop play where you know you could have done things differently you are absolutely right to call here

a) Your chips are in as favourite and tournaments turn and are won and lost on such narrow % advantages

b) you have played the hand in such a way to disguise its strength to those in the blinds. they have thus stuck their chips in when behind. So in a way your limp has achieved the desired effect. In essence it is the higher risk/higher reward play

c) least importantly now, your reads were superb. You backed those reads correctly

Thanks for everyones feedback. Once I was in top 7, I was happy with the money and my aim was to win.
I guess I am left with a half full half empty situation. I am trying to be pleased that i did really well to make 5th, but dissapointed that I didn't go further. I guess I was looking for a bit of reassurance that if my aim was to win that I was in a good place to give it a go and it just didn't come off.
I forgot to mention that the guy that had 6000 chips had only just survived by the skin of his teeth. He was small blind on the previous hand with 2000 chips left, enough for the big blind. He called and was up against two others. he had something like 3 -7 and managed to win with a 3 on the board and trebled up. He couldn't believe it that on the very next hand two of us were out. This took him from a cert 6th in to the top 4 and certainly brough a smile to his face. :D

Personally i think it is an easy pass to the two all ins. If you are going to limp monster starting hands you have to be prepared to lay them down in the face of fierce resistance on a board you are unlikely to improve on, and everything suggests your oppo's may already have you beat or you are up against 2 drawing hands with a combined draw % making you probably a small favourite to win the hand. I would fold. I never ever ever limp monsters on a final table, apart from AA in middle postion if i have big stacks behind me. I will limp monsters HU as well for obvious reasons.

I would pass too. (although it's very marginal)

Your comp is pretty much on the line here (1k left if you lose to the sb), so I'd wait for a better opportunity.

Yes, in hindsight, you're the fave... but only just. So many outs against you. You've only invested 2k.

Also, although they weren't strong, they were showing considerable strength and could easily have held bigger hands, especially the second guy in the big blind... who makes a bizarre move with just a small flush draw.

Basically, I think you were fortunate to be ahead. If your place in the comp wasn't on the line, it's an easy call... but this hand could, and it did, elimate you from the comp.

Im with the laydown mob as well. Sooo many cards to beat you down, and you could of been behind already!

Limp UTG with KK? I dont like this play myself. 3xBB raise is enough to push out weak hands, and you still get the re raise by someone with AK or a lower PP.

Just my 2p's worth.

Do you not reckon a PP or AK raise anyway?

Of course, thats what I said.

3xbb to push out weak hands, and STILL get AK lower PP to re raise you.

Can you not read?!? lol

Can you not?

short-handed AK or a PP is going to raise you anyway, i personally enjoy having weak hands in when i have KK...

AND SO IT BEGINS LOL

but that in essence is what its all about - if you are happy to limp with big hands, you cant grumble too much when those big hands get busted, since you gave them the opportunity to outdraw you.

For me its a fold. After you let the blinds limp in, you have to be prepared to lay it down since they have the opportunity to be first in with their chips after the flop. Even if your reads are correct (which is another deabte altogether), you are basically a coin flip whether your tournament life is over or not.

I am suprised by the number of people saying pass. 14k back with a 35k pot....

You need to call here really given what you have said about the players.  When a player goes all in first to act overbetting the pot its a flush draw a high percentage of the time, the second player probably knows this and calls with a pair and you've got them both trapped with KK behind. 

Its 14K to win 49K, you won't win many tournaments if you pass here.

And I don't mind the KK limp given your stack, you need to take a chance to get value out the hand, and as shown it has worked you've given yourself a great chance of winning the tournament by doing so. 

On reflection I was confident that one player had a pair and I was right, but on reflection the other player could to be honest have had anything. Especially as he was big blind and checked. For example he could have had 8 - 6 and be in the lead with two pair. Looking back on it the guy that won the hand had actually made quite a gamble by calling as he was only 40-60 against the pair.
I think i got too excited about the potential chip win and didn't take enough time to think through my decision. I went the 55% favourite to win, but should have also thought that 45% of the time I will lose.
I knew straight away that limping in was my downfall and just wish someone at the table had made a pre flop raise and I would have gone all in.
Having said all that if it had worked and I had won the hand, I would have been thinking what a superb move and in a great position to have a go at winning it. Instead the poker god gave me a good slap. :D
Thanks for everyones feedback and although views vary, I have found this a really useful learning experience.
Cheers.

how did you finish in the 100k last night m8? saw you went deep

Ended up 23rd was going nicely with 50 left but it took over an hour to get down to 27 from there and all the mid-short stacks were taking their full time on every shot.  Was very frustrating stuff.   Took on a big coin flip with TT v AK and lost.

I was trying to build my stack from steals during the bubble but I had a bit of a maniac to my left. There was an amusing moment when I raised the tightest player in the worlds BB with AK and he thought for his full time before typing AA in the chat, going all in, then typing honest im not lying. He was s***** himself about going out on the bubble so I passed, he showed and typed "phew". :D

ul m8, its cruel that comp!

Yeh i can understand some peoples tightness when the bubble pays 50 times the buy in.

lol yes, it needs correcting.

Poor Geeah bubbled