blonde poker forum

If anyone has any comments or thoughts regarding the latest news item, then please leave your feedback here. I'd hate to write something controversial without giving readers the chance to reply.

So, if you agree/disagree with what I have said, or just have some pearls of wisdom to share... then please speak now.

A GREY AREA (http://www.blondepoker.com/index.php?q=node/2060)

What did mr X have snoppy ? also ive recieved and email via poker heaven with an article you wrote are you working for them now ? /:-|

Mr X had Q-9 (queen high).

and that article... lol

Snoops

If for example player C was all in, and players A & B were checking it down with no betting then I would make everybody reveal their hands, mainly because all players need the information with what they were calling with in the first instance

If there was no side pot and players A&B were trying to knock out an opponent however one of them had the stone cold nuts then I would issue a penalty against the person with the nuts

It also should be the dealer who does this, but I know that some dealers either don't know the full rules , not brave enough to take on the person, or by the time they had got the TD they could have already been onto the next hand,  and on the receiving end when I was dealing back in the good old days ;) I once cried because a certain individual thought it was necessary to be horrible to the dealer and not only throw cards at my head but was incredibly rude aswell.

If its checked down to the river then everyone in the pot should show their cards, even if its the dealer that does it. I also get annoyed when a player shows just one card and not the other. I also get very annoyed when a guy with the losing hand shows his hand to a "mate" at his table and then mucks it. Its very hard though to force friends at a table to bet against each other when it is just the 2 of them in the pot. Its also very difficult to stop friends at a table from force betting an outside of the pot. I'd want a ruling in place which says quite simply -

Dont show one: show both, show all

OK , here are some of the rules about showdowns

http://www.poker1.com/mcu/rules/b_article11.asp

11.03 just for you Stallyon

11.08 Is what I think people are referring to. Let me just say that these rules are the most in depth I have seen so far, with alternative rules for different parts of the States/World. However this rule as stated goes "against tradition", and is the one rule throughout all the articles, I had problems with. My attitude is that if you have paid to "see" a hand, then this hand must be shown if requested. If someone is constantly calling raises to "see" what they are raising with, then he shouldn't be penalised for asking to see them as often as he calls.

Perhaps they should have a governing body for players that can agree to the rules to be followed. Sure it was mentioned on the telly the other night.  ;)

Don't start, I'm in enough trouble already.....

I stand by the old adage that its very bad poker etiquette to ask to see a losing hand.

If the TD thinks there is collusion going on then they should be the only ones with the power to turn over a losing hand.

Here's how I'd do things.

Option #1 Showdown rule - The DEALER ensures ALL hands that go to showdown are exposed 100% of the time.

Option #2 No Showdown rule - No player may request to see a mucked hand at showdown.
If collusion is suspected, they may call over the TD who may choose to look at the mucked hand. At no time will it be shown to the players.

What do you think? No grey area in either of these.

If there is to be a showdown then why not just insist that all players show their cards with left of the button showinng first and so on until all hands are exposed . The dealer then awards the pot.

There is no grey area if you read the rules concerning the place at which you are playing, simple innit?
You mention snoppy that hands are mucked online, this is not true as you can see any cards mucked at showdown.
I understand people not wanting to show the bag of spanners they are playing with (there was a bit of a spat between Camel and Rob Sherwood i believe a while back) but as this is the rule it should be obeyed.
The etiquette thing would not come into it if people just showed automatically, common practice then takes over.

What would happen if, instead of submitting to show your cards, you simply ate them?

Good point. Rules take precedence over etiquette.

Obviously you would run out of cards pretty quickly - especially in a 9 handed table.

i wonder why its called a SHOWdown. I think online has lead to a no show culture. This is why tikays post about the rules being read pre tourney to all players is such an important point. If you know the rule before you start then we don't have a problem

Surely there are only Grey Area's when people choose to shoot angles.

Yogi

I can't understand what the big problem is with showing your cards at the showdown.

If you check all the way to the river and miss that gut shot straight draw giving you a massive 7 high so what, if you call a bet with A high because you don’t believe and he shows a set, again so what.

As for giving other players a read on what you are calling with, what a load of b#@*?#ks. I’m sure most players chance their arm with different starting hands so whether you show 5,2 off or AA it surely doesn’t give an insight into what you will play next hand and If you’re bluffing and get caught….. better luck next time

In a cash game when you have 3 players hesitating to show their cards, maybe just showing the one first then when all three have an ace waiting another minute for them to show their kickers. I find this very annoying and would hate for this to be carried over into tournament play.

Awww, poor angles!!

There should be a law against that!!

They used the all hands shown down at one of the Luton festivals last year.  I played on the Tuesday, saw it being applied and hated it.  Presumably others must have felt the same as by the later tournaments the decision had been reversed.

I also saw a few players get around it by hurling their cards with expert precision into the muck so that it was impossible to determine which one's they had so I don't think its a failsafe option in any event.

I understand the reasoning behind the rule but I don't think its one which can be applied 100% consistently in any event as much depends on the dealer to enforce it and there will be variations.  Personally I prefer not to see it become widespread.

Sheriff

I think this is the problem.

Sportmanship doesn't really work in poker.

It only just about works in footie, but remember when Kan scored in the FA Cup v Sheffield... or all those times there's an injury and a team just plays on...

Sportsmanship really gets in the way sometimes and everyone has different views on what is and what isn't sportsmanlike. It's just way too subjective.

This is why I think the dealer should be in control and just turn over hands that ought to be revealed. No arguments.

I agree, but they need to be short and sweet. It would take ages to read through them all.

Also, have you ever seen the rules on the notice boards. They go on for miles. Who ever reads them??

The thing is only certain players seem to get "picked" on. I seem to get victimised a lot in the showdown rule. I remember a luton main event where funnily enough D Sami asked to see my hand as did another player in the space of 15 mins. We had been playing for about an hour and I remember Tighty, Mickey Wernick, IrishDenis and The Camel were on the table and none of them got asked to see their hands. They all stuck up for me and none of my hands were asked to be shown again but there was a heated debate for 10 mins. I wouldn't mind if every1 was showing but when you are getting picked on consistently then that as yogi said is angle shooting.

If I concede the pot take it why have a post-mortem about it?

There have been several occasions in the past at Walsall where I have been suspicious of collusion and that is why I very rarely play there any more. And as for the card room managers doing anything about it - dont make me laugh!