blonde poker forum

$200k on UB, 1 hour in. Quality of the table is pretty good.

     BudmansCom is at seat 0 with 2265.
     JohnnyBax is at seat 1 with 2855.
     BossMenlo is at seat 2 with 2760.
     jjjucifer is at seat 3 with 4900.
     JonnyG426 is at seat 4 with 3420.
     Foaming_Homer is at seat 5 with 3730.
     cybo is at seat 6 with 2435.
     smokeyal is at seat 7 with 5715.
     need2speed02 is at seat 8 with 2800.
     SirSTEAMSaloT is at seat 9 with 2800.
     The button is at seat 3.
     
     JonnyG426 posts the small blind of 20.
     Foaming_Homer posts the big blind of 40.

     BudmansCom:  -- --
     JohnnyBax:  -- --
     BossMenlo:  -- --
     jjjucifer:  -- --
     JonnyG426:  -- --
     Foaming_Homer:  8h 4h
     cybo:  -- --
     smokeyal:  -- --
     need2speed02:  -- --
     SirSTEAMSaloT:  -- --

Pre-flop:
 
          cybo raises to 140.   smokeyal folds.   need2speed02
          calls.   SirSTEAMSaloT calls.   BudmansCom folds. 
          JohnnyBax calls.   BossMenlo calls.   jjjucifer folds.
           JonnyG426 folds.   Foaming_Homer calls.   

Flop (board: 7h 6d Th):

I call because I'm fairly comfortable with chips and the 7.6-1 odds I'm getting to call. I've hit the flop pretty hard, but someone could have hit a bigger flush draw here, or there could be a made straight or trips too. Plus UTG is unlikely to go away from the pot if he has an overpair to the board. What do people think the optimum play is here? Is it too lead out and be prepared to go all the way? Or see how the action develops in front of you bearing in mind there are 6 people in the pot?

if you call with that. you gotta lead with it. a check-raise would look too much like a draw on that board i think.

First..I don't like the call pre-flop even on pot odds but some would argue that it's fair enough I guess, however it seems that you didn't think ahead as to what you wanted to hit. You have a straight draw which is a split to anyone with an 8 and a flush draw which is nowhere near the nuts.

You've essentially hit the flop well enough. I would consider check raising but curse myself for playing with shyte in the first place and definetly would consider a fold.

I would MUCH rather hit 2 pair on a rainbow flop than anything this bad and that is what I would be looking for pre-flop when I tell myself that on pot odds I have to call. I don't want a shitty straight draw and a poor flush draw I want to hit in such a way that I am almost certainly ahead. That's why I fold this rubbish pre-flop.

you called with 8h4h to hit that flop, when u hit it u carnt pass it or dont play it,  imo pre-flop u are calling to try hit a lucky 2 pair a flush or a strait draw,   when u hit a flush and a strait draw u carnt pass, i refer to my previous point, if ur going to call with it u got to play it when u hit it or dont call in the 1st place

I lead with it too, but...................
I dont mind it looking like a draw. Im all-in here if the action gets heavy. Bear in mind the number of players you have to beat, that means getting a lot of chips off strong players. Gamboooooooooooooool

First, I would not call your draw monster with 5 other players in the pot.  ;)

Bet to decrease number of the opponents and see where you are.  I am not so sure that going all the way on this kind of draw against so many opponents is a good idea. But I have not been playing for a while so what do I know.

You have 8 high, you are behind......not much 'defining' needed here.


I am going for the check raise here myself, it looks a lot stronger (setesque) and you win a bigger pot, you also don't have to worry about the common situation of UTG giving up with his AK and everyone checking behind as we get our free shot at this hand.

Check and hope its checked around, if its not tank the lot in.

Yep that is by far the strongest play. Betting out with 5 other players in the piot is suicide.

UTG raise then 4 callers - i pass 8 high preflop.

You've hit a double belly buster and flush draw but even if you hit any of your draws you are not sitting on the nuts, as their is a possible straight already on board as someone could easily be playing 89 suited then your low end of the double belly buster may already be a dead draw. If you hit your flush there is every possibility that one of the other 5 players has a higher flush.

You have over 90 big blinds, there is no need to get involved with hands like this at this stage of the tourney.

This is the UB200, a notoriously difficult tournament to win. Situations and flops like this dont come up all that oten imho. Make the most of it. I like flushies check raising shit.

Yep

oy!, shouldnt you be in a strip club getting lagered up?

Situations and flops like what? You've hit nothing but a draw which could potentially be a dead draw as you are up against 5 opponents. With over 90 big blinds at this early stage why put yourself in a position where you have no idea where you stand?

Suited connectors or 1-gap connectors i think are playable in this spot because you can make nut hands from them - in the case of 3-gap connectors any flush or straight draw you hit will never be the nuts (unless in this case the flop comes 5,6,7 all hearts).

There will be better opportunity to be calling out of position than with a hand that will only win less than 10% of the time in a 6-way pot, this is why i much prefer a pre-flop pass.

Lol, why's that?

          Foaming_Homer checks.   cybo bets 860.   need2speed02
          folds.   SirSTEAMSaloT folds.   JohnnyBax folds. 
          BossMenlo folds.   Foaming_Homer raises to 3440.   cybo
          goes all-in for 2295.   Foaming_Homer is returned 1145
          (uncalled).   

          Tournament all-in showdown -- players show:
 
               Foaming_Homer shows 8h 4h.
               cybo shows Kh Kd.
         

Turn (board: 7h 6d Th 9h):
 
        (no action in this round)
         

River (board: 7h 6d Th 9h Ac):
 
        (no action in this round)
         

         

Showdown:
 
     Foaming_Homer has 8h 4h 7h Th 9h: flush, ten high.
     cybo has Kh Kd Th 9h Ac: a pair of kings.

Nice one. Flop play is exactly the way to play it (imo)

Now we have got passed that, Matt is right, playing 84 here is pretty optimistic!

yep played the flop well.

Now pass that rubbish pre-flop.

I've lost count of the number of times i've gone in thinking i'm favourite to win only to walk into 1 player with QQ and another calling with AK hearts and i'm sat on the rail thinking - "why, why, why did i put my tournament life on the line with a poor draw?" :D

I hope you used the good fortune wisely? ;)

A Further question to everyone. The hand history above is how the hand panned out. Say for instance after cybo (the initial UTG raiser) puts in his pot sized bet both need2speed02 and JohnnyBax flat call - do you still shove?

Not me but then I REALLY REALLY hate these hands.

More interested in those players who said that the check-raise was the way to go originally.

I'd agree with them once the pot was heads up with just the original raiser - but if two other players join the party would they still consider it a viable option?

Will i get told off if i say yes?

 ;scarymoment;

No I'd have passed, the only hands I can see getting involved from the other players here are sets or straights, which would push following the utg bet. The nut flush draw might get involved holding Ahrt Jh, Ahrt 9h or Ahrt Qh, (Ahrt Kh might have re-raised), again this hand might well push too. If one person had pushed after, it becomes very difficult but I still pass since I'm either behind to a set, against a straight and drawing to a flush with a 9 for a split, or behind to a bigger flush draw not to mention that utg is still involved.

No, i'm just trying to see how many people who said "check raise the flop" would still check raise if there were extra players still in - people said they would check raise without knowing how many people would still be involved at the time.

would they still have checked raised if cybo bets the pot and all 4 other players call? If someone else beats them to it and reraises before the action gets back to them do they pass or play?

When Noflops posted the hand history to start with most people seemed to agree that the check raise yet given that we dont know what action is about to happen after the flop, all i'm doing is continuing the discussion by changing the senario slightly.

More often than not my answers all depend on the situation at the time and who my opponents are, i will always try to vary it where ever possible.

Was only joshing with you ;)

I do think however that once a flat callathon starts big hand frequency goes down. Very big made hands cannot afford to keep on calling here as there is no certainty that a check raise is coming.
Early in the tournament when i need chips for gambling with later, i still make the move.

Ok then - another senario with the same hand, you are need2speed02 and you are sat directly behind the initial raiser. You have called the preflop raise with  8s 9s and have flopped the nuts.

When cybo sticks in the pot sized bet of 860 you still have 2660 chips back - do you reraise a little, reraise all in or flat call hoping someone else comes over the top?


How big a hand do you need to have to make a move like this? in this example depending on how many players are still in the action when it gets back to you, your win percentage may be as little as 5-10%. Yes you need to build your chips at the beginning of a tournament to give yourself a better chance when the blinds go up and the ante's kick in but how much of a risk do you take when your tournament life depends on it?