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Title: Was i right to fold? Post by: neeko on May 28, 2007, 11:19:58 AM PokerStars Game #10143878364: Tournament #51170261, $30+$3 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2007/05/28 - 06:07:00 (ET)
Table '51170261 22' 9-max Seat #9 is the button Seat 1: guttatur (3970 in chips) Seat 2: blackturp (2430 in chips) Seat 3: shibbyMinch (3990 in chips) Seat 4: Neeko7 (7015 in chips) Seat 5: Talkn2theman (4935 in chips) Seat 6: pharaoh77 (11385 in chips) Seat 7: no_trust4you (9445 in chips) Seat 8: magoooo12 (4470 in chips) Seat 9: Red8ack (1635 in chips) guttatur: posts small blind 75 blackturp: posts big blind 150 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Neeko7 [Qs Qh] shibbyMinch: folds Neeko7: raises 300 to 450 Talkn2theman: folds pharaoh77: folds no_trust4you: calls 450 magoooo12: folds Red8ack: raises 1185 to 1635 and is all-in guttatur: folds blackturp: folds Neeko7: calls 1185 no_trust4you: calls 1185 *** FLOP *** [5c 8d 7d] Neeko7: bets 1050 no_trust4you: raises 6760 to 7810 and is all-in this guy was a solid TAG player - did not seem to be making moves without hands. his reraise was INSTA and so i put him on anything from 2 pair to trips or a made straight. I had 4.5k left (avg 5.3k at the time) and would be in still be in ok shape if i folded. Are chips saved worth more than chips won? In fact should i have reraised pre flop? Neeko7: folds *** TURN *** [5c 8d 7d] [Ah] *** RIVER *** [5c 8d 7d Ah] [2h] *** SHOW DOWN *** no_trust4you: shows [6h 6c] (a pair of Sixes) no_trust4you collected 2100 from side pot Red8ack: shows [Tc Th] (a pair of Tens) Red8ack collected 5130 from main pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 7230 Main pot 5130. Side pot 2100. | Rake 0 Board [5c 8d 7d Ah 2h] Seat 1: guttatur (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 2: blackturp (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 3: shibbyMinch folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: Neeko7 folded on the Flop Seat 5: Talkn2theman folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: pharaoh77 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: no_trust4you showed [6h 6c] and won (2100) with a pair of Sixes Seat 8: magoooo12 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: Red8ack (button) showed [Tc Th] and won (5130) with a pair of Tens Title: Re: Was i right to fold? Post by: GlasgowBandit on May 28, 2007, 11:57:14 AM I'd have shoved pre flop!
Title: Re: Was i right to fold? Post by: Horneris on May 28, 2007, 07:40:07 PM Push pre, call on flop.
Title: Re: Was i right to fold? Post by: ChipRich on May 29, 2007, 04:00:07 AM Yup, gotta be pushing pre there IMO
Title: Re: Was i right to fold? Post by: boldie on May 29, 2007, 10:28:09 AM he won't have a made straight here or 2 pair..his flatcall of 2 raises pre flop pretty much rules that out. At worst he will have aces or kings or AK of diamonds.
It's a call for me..understand why you didn't push pre-flop but on the flop your chips have to go in. Title: Re: Was i right to fold? Post by: jakally on May 29, 2007, 12:35:14 PM Would've pushed PF. Given that you haven't, you are faced with the probability that no_trust.... has a PP, given his actions pre, and post flop. Unless there is prior knowledge that puts him on a particular hand, such as a set (i.e. easy fold), need to look at his range / value of each holding. It is probable / possible he would make this move with any pair 55 - JJ. Against a set you are <10% (3 chances) Against a JJ/TT 90% or better (2 chances) Against 99 about 75% (1 chance) Against 66 about 60% (1 chance). (odds v. approx). Therefore its about 50% you will win side pot if you call (11,660 chips). Given that you will also win main pot (5130 chips) a fair amount of the time that you take the side pot, you will average around 7,000 chips if you call. Stacked against 4,780 you are left with if you fold, then it's a call. Title: Re: Was i right to fold? Post by: Paullie_D on May 30, 2007, 03:04:20 PM I think a push pre-flop is pointless. If you push then everyone folds (probably) and all you make is the blinds.
I bigger pf-raise to 5xBB or 6xBB should be enough here...you'll still get the action you want but it'll force out the smaller hands. 'no_trust4you' doesn't re-raise so I'm thinking that I'm in front here. On the flop, your bet is, I feel, too weak. Given that you have a player still to act behind you, I think that THIS is where you shove. You got pretty much the flop you wanted, get your chips in. This action puts 'no_trust4you' in a real spot unless he has hit trips or the made straight, in which case he's getting your money anyway. Holding anything other than those hands, he folds for sure. As it was, he put YOU to the decision and forced you out. All that said, I think 'no_trust4you' is still gonna call your push because he has so many outs. My SB worth. Title: Re: Was i right to fold? Post by: portfolio on May 30, 2007, 06:12:17 PM I think a push pre-flop is pointless. If you push then everyone folds (probably) and all you make is the blinds. I bigger pf-raise to 5xBB or 6xBB should be enough here...you'll still get the action you want but it'll force out the smaller hands. 'no_trust4you' doesn't re-raise so I'm thinking that I'm in front here. On the flop, your bet is, I feel, too weak. Given that you have a player still to act behind you, I think that THIS is where you shove. You got pretty much the flop you wanted, get your chips in. This action puts 'no_trust4you' in a real spot unless he has hit trips or the made straight, in which case he's getting your money anyway. Holding anything other than those hands, he folds for sure. As it was, he put YOU to the decision and forced you out. All that said, I think 'no_trust4you' is still gonna call your push because he has so many outs. My SB worth. spot on again. n website 2 mr filthmaster indeed Title: Re: Was i right to fold? Post by: Royal Flush on May 30, 2007, 09:37:12 PM I think a push pre-flop is pointless. If you push then everyone folds (probably) and all you make is the blinds. I bigger pf-raise to 5xBB or 6xBB should be enough here...you'll still get the action you want but it'll force out the smaller hands. 'no_trust4you' doesn't re-raise so I'm thinking that I'm in front here. On the flop, your bet is, I feel, too weak. Given that you have a player still to act behind you, I think that THIS is where you shove. You got pretty much the flop you wanted, get your chips in. This action puts 'no_trust4you' in a real spot unless he has hit trips or the made straight, in which case he's getting your money anyway. Holding anything other than those hands, he folds for sure. As it was, he put YOU to the decision and forced you out. All that said, I think 'no_trust4you' is still gonna call your push because he has so many outs. My SB worth. Spot off. Take the shortie on for his 1500. Title: Re: Was i right to fold? Post by: Paullie_D on May 31, 2007, 10:11:29 AM Spot off. Take the shortie on for his 1500. He did, but played it weak (twice) and let someone force him off the hand. If he shoves over the top of the shortie pre-flop, he isolates and takes it down. If the guy behind him has AA or KK, so be it. Quote On the flop, your bet is, I feel, too weak. Given that you have a player still to act behind you, I think that THIS is where you shove. You got pretty much the flop you wanted, get your chips in. This action puts 'no_trust4you' in a real spot unless he has hit trips or the made straight, in which case he's getting your money anyway. Holding anything other than those hands, he folds for sure. As it was, he put YOU to the decision and forced you out. THIS is the primary point here. If you're gonna call with QQ to get a flop without an A or K, what are you waiting for? Title: Re: Was i right to fold? Post by: temp0r on May 31, 2007, 03:10:40 PM if i flat call this preflop i'm only doing so because i put the TAG on a smaller PP than me. so i've got to call on the flop taking the risk that he's made a set. but i think it's a standard shove pre though. TAG might even call occassionally.
Title: Re: Was i right to fold? Post by: Paullie_D on May 31, 2007, 03:22:26 PM if i flat call this preflop i'm only doing so because i put the TAG on a smaller PP than me. so i've got to call on the flop taking the risk that he's made a set. but i think it's a standard shove pre though. TAG might even call occassionally. When he calls the shortie, pre-flop, the TAG has not yet acted...so he can't put him on anything! As I said, a shove over the shortie knocks the TAG out of the running! Post-flop he again gives the TAG value by not pushing...TAG has LOTS of outs and would probably call but at the very least he's going to stop and think!. When you refer to a 'standard shove pre' do you mean instead of the 3xBB bet or after shorties shove? The former is, as I said, pointless..if the latter then we agree. Title: Re: Was i right to fold? Post by: temp0r on May 31, 2007, 04:20:16 PM you may put the TAG on a smaller PP after he flat calls your raise. if we shove after the shortie does so then the TAG may come along. if he doesn't. big deal you saved yourself what would be a horrible situation on the flop if a K or A comes down.
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