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FullTiltPoker Game #2812848762: $110 + $9 Sit & Go (Turbo) (21456079), Table 1 - 100/200 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:17:24 ET - 2007/06/30
Seat 1: l_Ret-50_l (3,508)
Seat 2: NANNYANDPAPA (1,985)
Seat 4: jeppg1111 (3,502)
Seat 5: LawmakerDonk (650)
Seat 6: wolfie59 (1,044)
Seat 8: UpTheMariners (2,811)
wolfie59 posts the small blind of 100
UpTheMariners posts the big blind of 200
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to UpTheMariners [7d 8d]
l_Ret-50_l folds
NANNYANDPAPA folds
jeppg1111 folds
LawmakerDonk raises to 650, and is all in
wolfie59 raises to 1,044, and is all in
UpTheMariners has 15 seconds left to act

It's Your Turn...

Let them fight, move out of the way, IMO

Conventional wisdom would say pass with 3 to go till the money but that said it only costs 800 to have a shot at the pair of them.
Personally i call, if you win you have too many chips to lose second spot at least.

fold let em fight it out so 1 of them is either very short or out.. then lessppl to worry about for def.

it's a fold for me...

i cant think of any reason to call. You know your behind. Why risk a reasonable portion of your stack just on the hope of knocking them out. If you had a pair say 9's or better, i would call but not 7,8 suited.

wolfie needs a hand to re-raise all in here. obviously the shortie is pushing any 2 but for wolfie to push when he's not gonna be hit by a blind for another 4 hands i think he's got a decent enough range here to allow for you to pass.

Or he's trying to isolate with a medium pair

soon as i get home from work i'm gonna throw my math at you with this one!

Its a fold for me.  As has been pointed out no need to risk a large chunk of your chips by taking on two players in this spot.

pot size 1,994
844 for me to call
1,967 left if i lose
4,805 if i win + 2 players knocked out

Chances are you are up against an overpair which makes you around a 7/1 dog making it an easy fold for me. 

At best you are probably facing 3 or 4 overcards which is worse than a 4/1 dog (I think).  The pot is only offering you 2.3/1 which is not good enough given your hand's chances against your opponents possible holdings.  You might be up against an underpair and 2 overs but even then you are worse than 3/1.

Lawmakerdonk m is =2
Wolfie59 m is= 3.3

(harrington M)

both in late position what makes you think any of them have a big hand?

they don't need to have a big hand..but you don't have one either...you only have 8 high here. it has to be a fold

Hmmm interesting im not sure if im decided yet. Any reads on the two villans (you should have some by this stage)?

Very dependent on Wolfies range here, lawmaker donk range here is massive (may well be atc). I call if he is anyhwere near loose, or good enough to know that lawmaker donk range is massive and has a read that your overcalling range is quite small.

I think i might call here in a vacuum, we are getting alot more that 2 to 1 on our money if we win. We then have the chiplead on the bubble and can dominate the sng from here on in, as in $109 most people will have some icm understanding and therefore will not call us light on the bubble. This is a good example of taking a slight -ev situation which leads to massive equity gains in future hands.

math done. you can only call here and be +EV if you put shortie on a 100% pushing range and wolfie on a pushing range higher than 80%! thats a range that includes 10-2 off suit and 54 suited. likely when he's about to have the button next hand? i don't think so..

did you use sng pt?

i heard its good but is it worth $80?

i have a mate who uses that or a similar programme. me and brother were interested in how it work and have worked out the math formula it uses. i don't MT SnGs anymore so i've no use for the programme. i just like to be able to work out the math if i need to :)
the guy i know who uses it says it's basically like printing money though. as long as you MT at a limit where the players respect the stratergy. basically anything north of $40 buy-ins.

It is irrelevant what buy ins and whether you are multitabling, as to whether an ICM calculator is of use, or value for money. I have SNGPT and i would recommend it to anyone, who is taking sng's seriously.

For higher buy ins people are generally playing closer to optimal strategy but this means you can just plug in more accurate ranges, generally the better the player they will push wider and call tighter in the end game. Vice-versa in the lower buyins. This is of course situational but you get the idea. You get to the point in the higher buyins, where everyone is playing near perfect and you get something called nash equilibrium where there is balancing point where everyone is playing perfectly hence the word equilibrium. So for lower buy ins, you simply adjust the ranges to the players and icm is still completely valid.

As for multitabling you seem to be under the impression that there is better way to play than push/fold if you had the time. There isn't really, playing less tables just means your ranges on opponents should be more accurate and therefore you can tie this back in with icm to make more correct decisions.

Simply the question is $80 worth it to vastly improve your sng game, the answer to this is mostly certainly yes, unless you are playing micro stakes.

just invested and well worth the money id say. just realised ive been calling too much with marginal hands heads up...

So did you call??

yeah, a2 (short) & aq


they wasn't happy when the 8 came on the river...