blonde poker forum

WSOP Final Table 2007

Its Hand No. 15 you have 19.39 million chips, currently 3/9 you are in the BB and have  8d 5d

There is a pre flop raise to 1 Million ( i think the blinds were 100-200K) Do you call ? At this point i know which direction the cards are going if it were Me.

You decide to call, the flop comes  Kd Jd 5c you check, your opponent bets 2 Million, do you call, raise or fold? I'm thinking if you have called preflop and are deciding not to fold surely you should move All In here? You decide just to call!!!!

The turn card is  2h you check your opponent bets 4 Million you NOW decide to reraise all in and your opponent calls showing  Ad Kc The river card is  6c and you ( Phillip Hilm) are knocked out in 9th place.

This now gives Jerry Yang 44.5 Million in chips and IMO is the hand that ultimately won him the title.

Just my thoughts

I wouldnt call pre flop, but if I did and wanted to check raise it would be on the flop not the turn. Hilm had less info than the rest of the table because he was first out so it wasn't a terrible play because he hadn't established at that point exactly how cavalier Yang was being. Watkinson (and others) should have known better as they had more info and could have waited for a better spot as the stacks were still deep.

 i dont know if its the way you report it but that hand is horrible from start to finish.

 Philip Hilm should have done better , he'll probably regret that  5d  8d for the rest of his life.

final table pressure messes funny with your head I suppose. Bad play, but I hate the turn bet also. What if the diamond hits, where are you then with AK? You've put a lot of dough into that pot....The flop bet call is maybe questionable, but certainly not a reraise, hoping its just a continuation bet.

No possible way to fold 8d 5d look how heaven it looks.

Totally agree, no possible way to fold

Call Pre, look how pretty it is.

Re ship all in on Flop.

At the time this looked like a tilt play by Hilm, as he had just donked off a chunk to Yang.

In his post exit interview, Hilm talked about he need to stop Yang running over the table - he sounded like a guy who new he had cocked up, and was trying to justify it.

But it is probable that it was this style of play that got him to the FT, and he had the guts to try and carry on playing his game to go gor the win.

His play on the turn is ok, if there is a decent amount of fold equity. However, if he had played with Yang prior to the FT (not sure if he had or not) , he would surely have realised that folding wasn't really his thing.

 nonsense- tournament life with that bag of spanners

 why is that a better play ? still putting 19 million chips in a pot with a small pair and a flush draw , granted its better than the turn push , but its hardly WSOP ME final table quality play is it ?

 why even bother with the call in the first place ? he's deep stacked already . why get involved with shit like that.

 he was'nt playing an online donkament , it was the biggest game of poker in history , and he made himself look like a fool imo.

I think that's exactly right, he was just unfortunate that he ran into a big hand at the time.  There were some nice pots won with just a high card by Yang.   OK it's not worth shipping all in for imo, but I agree with his sentements, I'm just not sure I'd have had the balls to do it with that hand.

Talking of which, heads up.  Lam's been slowly losing chips folding all the way and has gone from 20m to 10m in chips.  I think I've never seen anyone so patient - are you really pushing all in with 34s to make a come back?  Yang is clearly calling with any two cards by now so why 34s?   OK he got lucky here but I think it's another example of people not making great plays against Yang.

Pre-flop call maybe a little loose but apart from that he played the hand fine imo.  Helluva call by Yang given that he is either facing a big draw or drawing very thin/dead.  I pass in his spot even against a scandi.

really?..,He knows his table image is such that he is seen as a sick nutter and therefore oppo could make this move with any half decent hand.
Personally I think pushing the turn is not the right thing to do...get it in on the flop and get the guy off the hand...don't do it when you've given him the impression his AK is surely good unless you have the goods to make that bet.

If he check shoves flop its an easier call for Yang as it stinks of a fd.  Check raising turn looks much stronger.  Yang has either made a nice read or wasn't good enough to fold top pair.

I agree.

I think the point of his call, is the fact he is so deep.  He wont be calling if he's short.  If he can hit the right flop, he can double through and probably win the whole thing.

I would c/r the flop to 5.5m or 6m tbh.

then he reshoves with AK and u are either losing whole tourny or several million :)

But if he pushes, you lose 1/3rd of your stack because you can't call the all-in.

I don't hate check/calling the flop and turn to be honest. Yang didn't pass many hands so there's little point in trying to blow him out of the pot.

Hindsights a beautiful thing isn't it.

I believe it was Hilm who said that the first time he had sat with Yang was from the final 10. So he wouldn't have had this knowledge. 

But a c/r on the flop is better then a turn r/r all in.  As he can find out if he has the hand that can call his turn shove all in.

  a pre flop fold is better than all of the above.

Nit.

For me successful tournament play is all about situations.

It is important to recognise the situation you are in as a whole and then assess each individual hand/situation and decide if this will favourably contribute to your overall progress.

Phillip Hilm's general tournament position is FAVOURABLE. He is currently 3rd in chips.

The size of his chipstack is FAVOURABLE. He has almost 20 million in chips when the blinds are just 100k-200k.

The magnitude of the tournament and size of the prize pool are exceedingly FAVOURABLE.

The standard at the table is not great and this is FAVOURABLE for a player of Hilm's capabilities.

So this is the general tournament situation Phillip Hilm finds himself in. In order to maintain the status quo and ideally progress through the event and build a bigger stack it is essential to enter gambling situations that are FAVOURABLE.

So let's take a look at this hand pre-flop.

Phillip Hilm does not raise...he calls a raise. UNFAVOURABLE SITUATION.

Phillip Hilm will not have the benefit of position on his opponent. UNFAVOURABLE SITUATION.

Phillip Hilm is playing a pot with one of only two other players that can knock him out. UNFAVOURABLE SITUATION.

On top of all this he doesn't even have a very promising hand which is clearly UNFAVOURABLE.

Suited connectors work well in multi-way pots. Hilm will be heads-up in this one. UNFAVOURABLE.

I think once the flop comes down the damage is already done and there are going to be a number of different, but ultimately unsuccessful ways, Hilm can get his money in here. But there's no doubt his money will go in.

When your general tournament situation is FAVOURABLE you must look for FAVOURABLE situations to get involved. This will only serve to strengthen your overall tournament position. However, if you opt to enter into UNFAVOURABLE situations then your downfall may be just around the corner.

With 3 shorter-stacked limpers calling on the button with  5d  8d is distinctly more favourable than this. Same player, same chip-stack, same tournament, same cards......just a different SITUATION.

 i'd rather be a nit sitting comforatbly and dangerous at the WSOP final table than scratching my head on the sideline after going from first to worst because i fell in love with suited connectors.

If he hit his 14 outer or Yang folded, he'd be sitting even more pretty, with $30 or $40M.  And this discussion wouldn't even be taking place.

good post and of course he should have folded preflop.

If you're going to go all-in here on the flop, a 3-bet is better in my opinion.

 similarly , if he folded this discussion wouldn't be taking place , and there would maybe be a different champion.

 as the old saying goes IF your Auntie had balls she'd be your uncle.

 but the fact is he went out of the final table of the WSOP because he played  5d  8d

This hand is very interesting. It's initially a fold pre-flop for me.

On the flop I would probably check raise although I do like Hilm's flat call as well as he's obviously decided if he doesn't hit the flush he's gonna check raise all-in anyway which would represent a very big hand rather than a draw. If Yang checks the turn he gets a free card.

I have to give credit to Yang though. (I presume) he made the right deduction to make a fantastic call, the only likely monster Hilm could have is KJ, KK, 55 or JJ in the hole. I believe if Hilm had KK or JJ he would re-raise Yang's raise pre-flop because he would be out of position post-flop. If Hilm had position he could just call with KK. If Hilm had KJ he probably would have check-raised or bet the two pair as the flop also brought a flush and straight draw. Therefore the only likely holdings are probably trip 5s or a bluff. Putting this together with the fact he's a Scando there is a very good shout for calling. Lose and you take a hit but you're still in, win it and your in good shape to win.

turn check raise always just smells of draw here to me. A massive hand on this flop, like a set or 2 pair or something is mostly protecting itself against a flush draw. Yang is playing maniac poker previously, and knows they know it. Someone hitting big on that flop does not flat call. The turn...how is that helping anyone? The check raise all in is a fear response.
Hilm has failed to put him on a hand properly. If he has a strong top pair, is he really going to fold it after that kind of play, if at all? No, of course not.
Dumbass play, especially with that stack. 'I couldn't let him run over the table'. He was running over the table especially to make you do things like this.

I agree, i prefer a 3-bet flop all in to a c/r straight all in on the flop.  I didnt say c/r all in on the flop though.  Just a c/r.

There's nothing wrong with shoving it in on the flop. It's pretty much a textbook semi-bluff.

the call pre-flop is terrible and then the rest of the hand is just awful from Hilm.

I suppose though if you are playing for millions of dollars then the pressure can make you do some strange things

If my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle.

Shoving for $19m into a $2m pot? Textbook? ok...

OK I'm not advocating shoving all 19million chips in on the flop.

But there's nothing wrong with him betting out big when that flop comes down.

The main point is that he should never have been involved in the hand in the first place. MANTIS01 has outlined far better than me why this was terrible play by Hilm.

Having made a poor call pre-flop he proceeded to play it poorly from there.

Some good points here. I think personally i would have binned the hand preflop.Ive generally found players at the level of MTT i play at to check call with a set or two pair on that flop then c/r all in on the turn. Just out of interest do u think yang would have folded had Hilm led out on the flop, yang re-raised and hilm pushed?

Nah, i can't see him folding here.

Judging by the rest of his play I don't think Yang would have folded.

I do not like the call preflop either. But had the flush or two pair hit against Yang's TPTK, it's pretty likely that you're gonna get paid off, right? Maybe his whole stack. Good implied odds right there.
Maybe a whole lot harder to make these decisions after so much poker, with so much money on it, and the whole world watching.

Regards the post-flop play.

If you are going to put $2m in the middle on the flop....then put $2m in the middle...and be first to do it. I think checking and then calling that amount is a play to avoid here.

Having bet out to a) try and wrestle the pot from a hand like e.g. 10-10 and b) to find out how the land lies, Hilm will be swiftly re-raised. He will then know exactly where he is in the hand and can decide if he wants to risk his whole tournament on a draw?? He will then retire from the hand ruing getting involved with junk but still very much alive.

If he check-calls the $2m and a diamond hits the turn his opponent will naturally shut down and so he wont get paid the value for hitting his card anyway. If a blank comes on this drawing board he will certainly be facing another big bet on the turn...so for me he is just FISHING...there is no leverage to his play...it's just diamond....pleeeeeeease....diamond!!!!!

Check-raising all-in on the turn commits his entire tournament to luck. Why would you do this??

After a gruelling week of relentless poker you arrive in dreamland at the WSOP final table with a healthy stack. After 15 hands you find yourself committing everything hoping for an 8, 5, or diamond with one card to come....I would be horrified!!!

By the way Yang is NEVER going to fold his hand.

I heard than Yang couldn't fold top pair? I'm calling the flop and then big decision on the turn. I don't mind the way he played it to be honest, disguised and aggressive.  I actually think all three actions are fine on the turn. Calling being the worst, but not completely horrific. Bet 3 bet all in is much better flop play and what I would probably do, though who wants to end their world series with 85s after a loose call preflop.. Call pre flop I also think is fine.