blonde poker forum

The GBPT in Leeds at the weekend, £500 entry, we are down to about 6 or 7 tables, we are trundling along quietly, with no problems.

Average is maybe 18k, I have about 14k or 15kk, blinds are 200-400 with a 25 ante. Life is good.

Jon "skalie" Kalmar has beern very "busy", & I'm hopeful we can get some chips from him. He knows I am weak passive, & he will DEFFO try & exploit it.

I find A-A, it;'s just the two Blinds, plus Jon, who's limped UTG. Odd, that, he could have a huge hand here. Well let's hope he has, eh?

I make it 2k to go, both blinds let go, Jon, to my great interest, just calls. UTG. I was half-expecting a check-raise, but Jon knows I'm super-tight, & may be trapping with a Paint Pair.

We see this flop.

  Qd 4c 3h

Jon checks, I chose to bet out & kill the hand. I'm not to know he's holding  4h 4d.

So I bet 6k, a bit above the pot, I don't want Jon messing about with me here. He moves all-in. Uh-oh? I have 7k behind, more than enough to Pass. But I know Jon knows this. He could have KK, AQ, JJ. TT, AK, or sfa, & is just bullying me.

I call with a heavy heart, "you got the set Jon?" I ask after calling, "yup" he replies. Poo. I half knew, but equally, I'm known to be easily pushed off hands, & I think this it's possible may be the case here.

So was there a better way to play this. If I check the flop (surely a bad thing), does he bet the Turn, & if so, what do I do then? Pass? That'd be a dificult thing. Call? RR?

I'm really trying to see if we had a better option here, but I don't think we did.

Of course, I did nothing wrong until I called Jon's post-flop check-Raise all-in, & that was the only mistake (I think), not to let go, but I've explained my reasoning there.

I did NOT have to call the Check-Raise, but that apart, were there better ways of playing this?

are you ever folding aces on a raggy rainbow flop?

p.s.

is the 6K bet a little too big? More than the pot? Perhaps 4K and u may have had an easier fold, tough one...

???

AA on a Q43 rainbow flop against an agressive opponent? sorry but i doubt there's one person who could put their hand on their heart and say they fold in this spot.

I reckon Tikay's been about on the tournament circuit long enough and is experienced enough to know the answer to the question before he's even asked it.

There may possibly be a justifiable arguement (just!!) if you were on the bubble and there were 3 or 4 shorter stacks than you who would bust before you make the money but you are at least 5 tables off the money, i don't believe that anyone is passing in this spot.

True, but if I I bet "weak", he can then do his "I'll bully now, he's weak" & then what do I do? I'm back where I started, unless I'm good enough to Pass here. And I CAN Pass here, but I just thought Jon may be at it, or at least be behind. The set entered my thinking too, but I chose to disregard.

You can't have the 50p - I was "comped" into the Tourney, so hardly a bad-beat, as I was freerolling.

50p notion REJECTED. ;)

Not saying I'd fold, I would call, but maybe you get the same info for 4K instead of 6K, making it easier to fold if your uneasy with the call...

NO WAY OUT!

Unless you are holding the absolute nuts there is always a chance you could be beat.

Skalie has called a 2k raise from a tight opponent oop with a small pp (final-tabling at the WSOP must give you the freedom of a cavalier attitude methinks) and has got lucky.

Really really don't like the size of the flop bet. The flop is absolutely ideal for bullets so surely you want to be opening the door FOR your opponent to be "messing" about with you...not wanting to avoid such an eventuality? So I put in a bet of about half to two thirds of the pot and cross my fingers for a re-raise. Definitely want all the chips in here...Pocket Kings or A-Q fit the action perfectly...but your over-bet which may be interpreted as weakness could suggest other holdings are possible. WORSE case scenario is you are facing a set, but only if you are an utter pessimist, but hey you still have Aces, running queens or a 2-5 straight combo to hope for if, on the other hand, you are an eternal optimist!

 

Yes, with hindsight, I agree.

I spent all weekend thinking about this. Not "bugger, I got muffed", but "Positives", how could we have played this better, or different? I've been very lucky when Sponsored into Comps, almost a 100% record, & I believe this is what sponsors want, their "jockey" to do well, so I was a bit miffed with myself that I'd not done better on this occasion. Just one of those things I guess, it was a tough decision & I made the wrong one.

I'm not passing on that board.  Perhaps a bigger bet pre flop may have got rid of him but when holding the bullets u really don't want to scare him out.  Against an aggressive player u want as much action as possible from him. 

Can I just say I'm not a fan of Skalie's call of your preflop raise, most of the time he'll face an unfavourable board OOP, some of the times he does hit a set you'll have missed with AK/AQ anyway, or will be looking at an Ace or King high board with QQ or JJ. If he hits his set he has to get your whole stack for it to be profitable, I just don't think that between 9/1 and 10/1 is enough for this.

I hate HIS call preflop with 44 vs you OOP.

As for the way you have played it, maybe a little less on the flop, but whatever you bet you are never getting away. Just one of those nasty hands.

one important piece of info which is very relevant to the situation is how many chips Skalie has.

Tikay says he had been "busy" so if he had got himself upto about 50-60k where the average was 18k then calling the 2k in an attempt to hit a set and bust someone you believe to be weak passive isnt that bad a move.

skalie just about covered me, with 2k or so to spare, they needed to check the stacks after the hand, & he was just above me.

ok thanks - oh and one more quick question, when you turned your cards over did they both have a pointy like letter in the top corner or did they both have non-matching curly numbers?

 ;ifm;

;)

This reply is also to Rookie, who makes essentially the same point.

Well, if you just confine your thinking to pot odds, yes, it's a horrendous call against me - of all people - with 4-4. But I believe he was thinking other things, naughty things. I mean, if he puts me on AK & it comes raggy taggy, he can get me off, in fact he probably thinks he can get me off anything with a stop & go. Which, as it fell, he did not need to, as he hit.

But if we confine our thoughts to him actually hitting his 4, yes, a bad call, but like I say, I believe he had mischief in his mind. Which is partly why I fell for his Push.

Lol, RUMBLED!

To tell the truth, I actually thought I had 4-4, & was a bit puzzled when he flipped his cards over & showed another two Fours.....;) 

;D

Posted by: matt674

Not sure I am liking this sentiment Matt. As a chip daddy I want to be looking for favourable situations with which to edge forwards whilst always maintaining my current stack without too much jeapordy.

I think calling a raise of 5x bb oop in the hope of hitting a 9-1 shot is a mathematically hopeless play....and even then you are going to have a job busting someone who is weak and passive. You must hope you hit a set and your opponents has aces or such like. These kind of hopes can decimate a big stack quite quickly I think.

Calling to bluff...well maybe...but there has to be looser targets out there

Hand Selection: Poor...Opponent Selection: Poor...Position: Poor...Luck: Excellent.

maybe but sometimes i think tikay isnt as weak passive or uber-tight as he tries to make out ;)

you are going to have a job busting someone who is weak and passive

Hold up, are you saying I'm weak & passive? WHAT?

PS - Ahh, yes, I already admitted that.

Hush now Monkey Boy, that's libellous. I could sue.

Anyway, I've e-Mailed the link to this thread to skalie, be interesting to hear his thinking. I'll be quite surprised if he called just to hit his Set. He was planning mischief, I'm sure.

i'll have my cheetah lawyer on standby just in case ;)

wrong, it's 7.5-1

His hand is telegraphed already as mostly likely a medium pair though. Even if he check/calls you on a rag flop, you put another good bet on the turn he'll have to fold.

Well yes, but I see it MUCH wider than that.

He may just have had a Stop & Go in mind? He knows my game pretty well, we play Online together a fair bit, & he pretty much has my number as a grinder & bullet-dodger.

Your preflop raise however represents huge strength, a tight player raising an utg limper should send the vast majority of hands scurrying for the hills. I don't see why he would lead out here with any hand, knowing that you were going to bet, and if he did lead out, I'd raise to find out how strongly he thinks his Sevens or Eights are.

He may well lead out here, knowing I am likely to fold to strength with most hands. And , of course, he never put me on a hand as strong as A-A, & he reverted to Plan B when he hit his set.

how can he have a stop and go in mind when you are first to speak in every round of action?

He was UTG, I was mid-pos.

Say he leads out for 2k or 2.5k, you make it 6k with AK. Is he going to put his whole tournament on the line with a medium pair against a tight player who has shown strength both preflop and and on the flop with an overcard there as well? If he pushes with a set and we have AA/KK, well nh, wp and gg. He can't really flat call our raise with a medium pair because he knows he might have to face more bets down the line and unless he spikes on the turn the board will most likely get nastier. If he pushes and we have AK, we pass, but he hasn't gained our full stack meaning his initial call was wrong in the first place. Even if he does flat-call, we'll see the river for free (or conceivably push turn) and could still luckbox out.

It's actually 12% or 8.3333-1 to flop a set...but for argument's sake let's just say it's unlikely.

you do realise that a 1 in 8.5 chance = 7.5-1 right?

WOW its amazing how much people try to over analyse situations in this game. The fact is some things are unavoidable and this situation TIKAY did nothing wrong and I don't see how he gets away. And to be fair If I was as loose and some people think then people shouldn't be folding those hands too me. If every situation was avoidable then you would never lose a tourny.

Ok that said. here was my thinking.

Firstly I was a little on tilt cos prior to this hand someone had insisted I turn over my cards after I HAD MADE A CALL on someone else and then tried to muck my cards. This guy was not even in the hand.
Secondly the beer was starting to taste pretty good I was ready to gamble in order to try and kick on or get drunk. Its not that I wasn't taking the event seriously but the blinds were getting big and patience was not on my mind. I called purely to hit my set, sorry tikay, but I knew you could not get away after such a big bet if I hit the flop and indeed you did have a big over pair. However I didn't expect you to bet out holding AK AQ ect unless you'd hit.

Soon after I lost a monster pot (ak v JJ) which had I won would have given me more than enough chips to really open up. I do at times gamble to get, as Scotty N puts it, 'DANCING CHIPS'

As for playing the hand 44, I shouldn't even have limped UTG with it. I know I shouldn't have called Tonys raise, but the fact is we don't always do the right thing. I played badly Tony got unlucky. Simple really.
Sorry there is not a more sophisticated reason for the play.

SKAL

MISREAD!!! :D

Apologies squire, saw the words AA and blinds next to each other and though you were in the blinds :(