blonde poker forum

Just read in WPT Magazine about this hand.

Personally I think the advice how to play this hans is quastionable, but I am rock so what do I know.

Final table - 4 left
BLINDS 10K/20K 2K ANTE

(BB)        Tony G - 830.000
(SB)        Gus (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=564) Hansen (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=564) - 695.000
(CO)         Devilfish - 375.00
(BUTTON)  You- 350.000

Devilfish  - raises to 60K

Do you call/raise/fold with  Td 8d?

You call and Gus (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=564) Hansen (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=564) Folds, Tony G calls.

flop:

 Qs 7d 2c

Tony G, and Devilfish check to you.

What is your action and why?

you check

Qs 7d 2c 9d

Tony G bets 100k into 198K pot, Devilfish flat calls

what is your action?

Fold, re- raise all in, or call?

why?


(the advice is to raise all in)

i push pre most likely, next option is fold.... cant see how you can call there tbh.

on the flop when they check, if i have flat called pre i have to bet.

then on the turn i think i just call, there is no way you are forcing them both off the turn there with a shove.

I flat call. No re raise is getting the Fish off this pot, he's invested nearly half his stack.

I would have bet the flop though, as I have no clue where I'm standing right now.

"You" are obviously a complete fish, so I suppose you might have some fold equity as there is obv no way that you could be put on a hand.  I'm folding or raising pre, if I called by mistake...I would push the flop.  As to the turn, as I said, I do think there is some fold equity, but not that much, so I would just call. We survive if we don't hit and there is a chance that TonyG could eliminate Devilfish putting us into 3rd.

I am not altogether sure why you would want to call a pre-flop raise with 10 high at this stage in the tournament so I think, as is mostly the case in poker, the problems start with the pre-flop decision.

By calling on the button the first hurdle to overcome will be getting to see the flop at all. It's 4-handed so a player like Devilfish will be raising frequently and after your flat-call you give Tony G and Hansen, both aggressive types, the opportunity to take advantage of this situation and squeeze it. How horrible to call the raise and then meekly fold to the re-pop.

Why not use your POSITION as the strength with which to re-raise rather than focussing on the strength of the cards themselves to merely call if you are desperate to play this hand.

You negotiate this first problem of putting your chips in the shop window for Tony G or Gus to nick and go to the flop. Why would you check the flop??....You check because you are playing your cards again rather than your position! And this begs the question once more...why call a raise in position pre-flop if you refuse to use the advantage of that position post-flop?

Once you have passed-up the opportunity to raise pre-flop and bet post-flop you are done with the hand period. To put chips in now whether that be calling or pushing is just symptomatic of your desire to play THE CARDS in front of you and how they relate to the board...rather than exploiting the SITUATIONS that are presenting themselves to you. This may be a workable strategy when the blinds are 25/50 in 10-handed play but is a recipe for disaster short-handed. If you wanted to put 100k+ into the pot with 10 high you could have done that from the very beginning....so why now?

Don't you think it is weird that both  aggressive players decide to check the flop to you- the fish?

You can rep a very strong hand easily on such a disconnected rainbow board as its the kind where you could have given a free card with trips or a decent Q. On the turn you have a gd opportunity to rep and squeeze simultaneously, i like this advice.

I understand what Alex Martin is saying and it is a perfectly reasonable stance. Having said that Devilfish has just flat-called a third of his stack into this pot after Tony G has bet out. It is fair to say that you may be putting your chips in against the very hand you represent. If you bet 100k on the flop after the check check you stand an excellent chance to win the pot on such a disjointed board...if you get re-raised it is an easy fold...if you get called a push on the turn is a more straightforward decision to make I think or you may get/choose to see the river for free! Like tantrum says, the check by Devilfish is a concern.

Do we know what happened next tantrum?

The result is irrelevant as if the push is successful in getting folds then someone would argue it was the best play. 

The opponents in this hand are good at hand reading and are quiet capable of recognizing that "you" could have picked up a flush draw as well as considering that you were slowplaying.  DF might even be capable of calling with A high. 

The only folds you get are if they are both drawing or feel they are drawing e.g JT or something like TG with 67 and DF drawing. 

When you take into account the overlay of flat calling with implied odds, the fact that chip ev isn't equal to cash ev and the possibilty that TG will eliminate DF if you miss, I would think that you have to get a fold 40%+ of the time to make AI correct.  Given the uncertainty of our opponents holdings, avoiding elimination by flat calling and taking our overlay is surely a better play.

 

I hate the push on the turn advice here. I don't mind calling 3BB with 810 suited assuming you're playing your position..but if that's the case you simply have to bet the flop. If you don't bet the flop you've given up the hand simple as that. the flop is where you get your info here, not on the turn.

According to the magazine - this is a series called poker exam papers, the advice was to push all in on the turn .

devilfish was holding QQ, 'you' won by hitting diamond on the river.

I posted here this hand as for me the flat of devillfish here for 1/2 of his stack is very suspiscious and I wonder if I am the only one who would give up this hand if I chose to play it at all. My answer was to check/fold after devilfish's flat call. 

I just can't believe that good player at this stage of tourney would flat call  1/2 of his stack with nothing,

 

results orientated thinking by the guys giving the advice if ever I saw any.

I just edited my last post with a bit more of my thoughts - folding is def wrong, you are getting too much value. 

So if you think you are behind you push here regardless?

Nooooooooo  You call the turn as you are getting pot odds of 4-1, you fold the river if you miss.

ps I've just realised why they say pushing is correct.  They are presumably taking the view that as you are up against better players you should embrace the opportunity to gamble.   

Thank you- now I understand:)