blonde poker forum

Las Vegas 2007

I followed the Final Table at The Venetian with a couple more good cashes.

I started thinking about using some of the $'s to buy into the Friday afternoon tournament at The Bellagio. This is right at the top end of my budget...but I was showing a healthy profit and was feeling confident.

The tournament starts at 2:00 in the afternoon and the entry fee is $1,000 + $80

The hand this week is the third hand from that tournament after evetually deciding to give it a go. I was trying to organise a latte during the first two hands so actually sit down at the table just as the third hand is about to be dealt...and it's my big blind.

Location: The Bellagio. Las Vegas

Buy-In               $1,000 + $80
Starting Chips  $5,000
Players              70

The Hand

As I am settling in UTG raises to 200. There is a caller in middle position and the button also calls. The small blind folds and when the action gets to me I look down to see...

 Kh  Kd

Two red kings....welcome to the tournament.

I gather most players will be raising here but the interesting question is...How much do you raise, why, and what are you hoping to happen? If you would just call the raise then please say why you choose this option.

I decide to raise it up to 800. UTG folds, middle position folds, and the button calls.

So we go to the flop heads-up with 2,025 chips in the pot.

The Flop  

The flop comes down....

 Ac  Ad  Kc

What is your strategy and thinking here? Do you bet and if you do what is the right amount? Is checking a better option? and Are you thinking about body language?

More action and the turn will appear on Wednesday...

ok..nice one :)

Pre-flop I do pretty much the same as you..standard raise to 800.

on the flop I lead out. you're killing the deck here..noone will  expect you to bet with a full house and any ace should give you plenty of action. I am ofcourse hoping UTG has a big ace AQ/AJ and all that and moves all in on me. Lead out for 1k and hope someone has something. By leading out for 1k'ish you're just about pricing the FD in aswell so that's always nice.

That's actually a scary flop, whilst you probably are ahead I'd suggest you don't want to give your opponent free cards, he may have called with either a smaller pair,suited connectors (less likely),a big ace or aces therefore I think it's important to find out where you are in the hand and if he did just have a big ace not give him any free cards to hit the house.

I'd bet 1750 and see what happens, if it takes the pot there and then so be it if he comes over the top worry he has you beat already and if he just calls then I'd suggest he's either playing the big ace or aces cutely.

You have no info on your opponents so at this stage you are just playing the cards not the player so it's difficult to know exactly where you stand although if you are behind then that's a bit of a cold-deck and unlucky (so if he does come over the top I may well call anyway).

I say he (obviously it may have been a she you haven't told us either way).

I'd make it a touch more preflop 1k or so

on the flop id just go ahead and bet out, I dont like checking in these spots, it always feels so transparent, but if he has an ace, you get it in somewhere no matter what you do, and if he doesn't, you normally dont, so I guess checking lets him catch a 2 outer if he has a small pocket pair. I'd still bet though.

Hey Flea


are you a math guy?

Well I did A level statistics and work in an Actuarial department so yes I guess I'm a bit mathematical

ROFPMSL

I think you have to lead out here Mantis, pray the guy has AQ/AJ and stack him early. Leading out deffo encourages a bluff v a thinking oppo. You wont get any more action from lesser hands anyway so you have to hope he has an ace or wants to try a move.

I make it 750 to play. Never been a fan of simple 4x raises/re-raises, tend to go for a mix. Definitely re-popping with pocket kings though, how anyone can flat call a raise with these is beyond me.

With that flop I bet out hard, somewhere between 1500-2000. I'm looking for action from a bare ace, however I am kinda worried about another paint card coming out because if he's got AQ or AJ then he'll have the higher house. Other than those 2 hands you've probably done enough to take the hand down. If he has AK, then I can't see him re-popping, and you're just unlucky.

I'm gonna take a stab in the dark here and say he has A8, completely overplays it and hits the 8 on the river ;)

bet out half the pot. One of those hands where by betting out you can extract more later on

Checking too obvious

When you get knocked out by Ax on the river you can at least know that your $1,000 latte can be savoured!

Can I ask what strategy people have if the flop comes A high with the kings here? And does that strategy change if you have two callers insead of one?

I always c-betting against 1 opp here, two....almost always checking

How much do you raise, why, and what are you hoping to happen?

I don't really fancy too much action at this stage, so I'm happy to raise the pot and hope for just the one caller.

What is your strategy and thinking here?

Considering that it was the button that called and not the initial raiser, I'm thinking I'm 99.99% ahead and want to extract as much as I can from my opponent. I'm also trying to work out what his range is so I can play accordingly.

Do you bet and if you do what is the right amount? Is checking a better option?

I actually think his most likely holding here is a middling pocket pair so I'm happy to play this slow and maybe make a small bet along one of the streets.

Are you thinking about body language?

I think body language is overestimated sometimes, but I guess if he's jumping up and down and swinging his trousers in the air then I might put him on an Ace.

I think people are forgetting that stacks are only 5k, so if he's got an Ace, the chips are going in at some point another. However, if he has a pocket pair, then you can sneak a small bet out of him by playing it slow.

I picked up KK from BB recently, second hour of a 500 runner game. Blinds at 75/150, UTG+1 raised to 600, button called, I made it 2100. I wanted one caller but was happy enough with two; I rated neither after the flop. Flop came Axx. Cursing, I put in a just over 1/2 pot continuation bet, with the full intention of laying down if someone fought back (neither was going to bluff me there) and they both folded.

In this situation, against what is a better standard of player, and without any kind of prior info, I check against two players but cont bet vs 1.

In this situation, I lead out for just over half the pot, hoping he'll see it as a standard continuation bet and raise me. I don't credit him with AK but he could have played this way on the button with AA. Unconventional and I've seen trappy types do this. But hitting quads is extremely unlikely, and if he raises, I'm going to be getting all my chips in.

On the question of body language - no, no, no. I have no idea whether his body language is conscious or unconscious, and this early with no pointers at all I don't think I can reliably use body language as a basis for making decisions.

The question regarding body language was one for us and how we want to be appearing here rather than one about how our opponent looks.

A lot of players are betting out in this situation. So do you bet out with strong body language to fool your opponent? Do you bet out and try to look weak and nervous? Or do you not think it matters all that much?

i raise more pre flop 1k/1.2k, attempting to look like i'm buying it with a strong but not top quality hand that may fold to a shove, this is a crossover from cash games. Works on line for me. Anyone flat calling is likely an idiot in my opinion anyway unless they have AA maybe it's worth trapping. I always raise more from the blinds with my big hands also hopeing to negate my positional disadvantage and give myself easier decisions later on (and thining the field of course).

I check the flop sometimes and bet it at others, but 2 checks from me is likely to solicit a bet from my oppo on the turn and i'll be happy to c/r and take it there or get it all in. I am not in anyway concerned about him hitting a kicker with his ace, if that happens then so be it, it's going to happen whatever and i'm going bust.

I need to know if you've got your latte or it's just ordered. I'm not superstitious but I hate leaving my seat between ordering and tipping and I really like lattes.

That said I like the preflop raise of 800 and once the flop comes my only concern is how to get all the chips into the middle. Should this hand cost me all my chips then so be it.

I would check call all on the flop except if he put in a very small bet which I'd minimum raise. If he has an ace he'll call anyway if he hasn't he can bluff at it from here.

As to body language I don't try and act, I don't trust my abilities. 

I want him to think that it's just a standard but slightly scared continuation bet. I will put my chips in quite forcefully with a strong declaration of the amount I'm betting, I will look him in the eye, and then I will barely move. I am trying to represent a bluff.

Bluff tells to employ when making the bet...pick one and try not to do overdo it


Hold your breath

scratch your nose

forcefully throw your c-bet chips towards the player

lick your lips

check your watch


(well they work for me!!)


Against an unknown who does not know you, might sway him to pushing you off it your c-bet!

i make it $1k pre flop and bet $600 on the flop to make it look like a weak info bet, then move all in if he re-raises. if i'm beat then i'm beat. also if i do this on the flop then i dont have to worry about making a decision on the turn / river if another A comes.

Part II

I flopped the full house and now my only consideration was finding a way to get all the chips in the middle. I did not see the sense in checking here because if my opponent had an Ace he would call/raise if I bet and if he didn't have an Ace he would check behind my check. You MAY be able to entice one small feeler bet from your opponent if you check but as soon as you call/raise that bet the strength of your hand will be revealed and your opponent will shut down.

So I am definitely betting here and I think the amount of the bet and the way you put that bet across the line is important in this sort of situation. Again, I see no point in betting out and "looking" weak when you do it. I want my opponent to disbelieve the story I am telling him and as such he may make a move on me with K-Q, a flush-draw, or any pp if he doesn't have the Ace. Most decent players are aware of the Caro strong=weak philosophy so my opponent is going to get super oodles of strong here and hopefully reject my strong act as weakness in disguise.

I decide to bet 800. But I make up the 800 with all my small denomination chips which makes the bet look bigger and more impressive than it actually is and then I jam those chips out there...splashing them in the general direction of my opponent. I hope that he cuts through my bravado and sees the amount of the bet is actually smallish despite my supposed strength and I am not pot-committed so a re-raise could result. Just to finish the job I lean back in my seat (distance from cards is a good tell for weakness) and subtlety touch my nose a bit (pacifying gesture).

My opponent thinks about what to do for a long long time before finally calling the bet. Does this flat-call give us any clues as to what he may be holding? If he has an Ace would he re-raise here with a flush draw out there and almost 3k in the pot?

So we go to the turn with 3,625 chips in the pot and a latte going cold on the side.

The Turn

The turn hits the felt and it is.....

 5c

So we have a board of

 Ac  Ad  Kc  5c

You have 3,400 chips in your stack so what do you do now? If you bet how much and why? Or do you decide to check instead?

All comments are appreciated and as usual more action and the river will arrive on Friday...

I'd now be tempted to check for several reasons

a) the story is I've c-betted the flop and now I've got called I'm slowing down

b) A flush card comes, I want him to think thats slowed me down

c) for either of those reasons, with position he may be tempted to have a stab at it. I am then dwell-calling and taking a stab on the river with an overbet, not a value bet

d) The line you take here c-bet the flop, check the turn....if he checks behind then the bet from you OOP on the river can be seen as a bluff...more likely to get paid by a marginal hand then, say KQ

ffs the suspense is killing me, this is worse than waiting to see if Cindy is actually coming back to Eastenders!!!

I stick the whole lot in at this point if i had played it like you did. The 5 doesnt change anything in terms of you being infront and probably doesnt change his hand (only if he had 55 which i doubt) Take the pot there and move on.

one sleep til Friday!!!!!!!!!

is it possible to feign worry about the flush here? can you assume that someone has called 800 preflop with 2 clubs in his hand for 20ish% of his stack?

Not a critisim just a genuine query as its nots not really a hand i could put him on.

If I were him, a bet of 800 into a pot of over 2000 would look suspicious to me. It's too small and to my mind represents strength rather than weakness.

I think he's definitely raising you on the flop with any ace holding except AK.

So this leaves him, after the flop action, with
- a potential flush draw (sooted connectors he might happily have played getting better than 2/1 on his money with position pre flop)
- AA (possible, unlikely but you have to consider it)
- AK (possible, unlikely)
- absolutely sweet fa but hoping that a scare card hits that will get you off your hand (unlikely given that he knows nothing about you).

His flat call worries me much more than a raise would have done. But I'm still aiming to get the chips in.

After the turn card comes down...

If he had raised your flop bet I would put him on an ace or flush draw and I would check this, feigning uncertainty and weakness, encouraging him to take the lead.

However, because he flat called, unless he's on an absolute bluff, I don't think you gain anything from checking the turn.

1. If he has a hand which he's uncertain about (ace), he's probably going to check behind if you give him the option, and might give it up on the river if he doesn't feel committed. I don't think you get more of his chips this way. If you bet out here he will possibly call, and thereafter not be able to get away on the river.

2. If he's hit the flush, he's going to put chips in whether you bet or not.

3. If he has you beat, you're going broke regardless.

2 and 3 all the chips are going in the pot. Therefore because of 1, I'm leading. I don't want to bet so much that it makes it difficult for him to call with just an ace. You bet under half the pot on the flop, I follow this up with similar. I'm going with 1500 here. He should know that you're now pot committed but he'd be getting 7-2 on his money if he just calls and he MIGHT just feel unable to get away from his ace and raise.

Posted on: Today at 02:56:17 amPosted by: Sunday8pm 

If you bet 1600-1800 on the flop your opponent will fold almost any and every hand and as such you make nothing from this opportunity. This hand involves delving deeper into subtle areas of play to try and maximise the situation.

So on the surface the hand may look boring...and of course...raise pre-flop with kings + bet flop = opponent folds...is a straightforward equation. However, this is the most basic of strategies. Being more creative and manipulating what looks like a standard situation to trap your opponent is a more advanced level of poker theory. I understand this may be hard to grasp at first but if you keep visiting the board you may be able to make headway.

I took my nephew to an art gallery the other day. He found it boring. But that's only because he was too young to appreciate the quality of work on display.

 rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao

then why take him in the first place?

Posted by: bolt pp Today at 11:00:48 am
For the same reasons you would try any new experience...you MAY like it.

Similarly, when you visit the PHA Board you MAY learn something...but then again there are no guarantees...you may find it boring.

It appears my nephew likes Halo and burgers.

The 1k Bellagios during the WSOP are the one of the worst standard tournaments you will ever see.

Sunday8pm is bang on, this hand requires no thinking whatsoever and I think you fail to understand the difference between deep thinking and incoherent spew. If you wish to write pages and pages about the most basic of poker hands then that is your choice but to single out the most accurate post on the thread for ridicule is just plain laughable.

Dubai,

You obviously don't yet understand Mark's "advanced level of poker theory.... but if you keep visiting the board you may be able to make headway."

there should indeed not be a lot of thought in this hand. on the flop you hope the guy has an ace, which is why you bet..on the turn all you can do is hope he has a flush and thinks you've got the ace. If he has a better Full house than you..that's tough..if he doesn't have a flush or the ace you're not going to get paid either way so there is no need to be carefull here and you can continue betting...no point in checking on the turn..he either has it or he doesn't..like I said in ym original post..the board is killing the hand..this is one of them things that plays itsself.

I think there is a twist coming on the river so may not be so clear cut...... watch this space!!!

Yeah youre probably right, which means whole thinking is results orientated, oh well. Gl al

I fully expect there to be..but upto now the hand is very straightforward...and even when/if the third and final ace comes down you have to get your chips in.

no ace coming me thinks, i thinks its something else............

The only interesting twist would be a duplicate card or a joker appearing.

The only things that change the river would be the 4th ace (why aren't we all in already if they have an A), or a royal flush card.

I can't see myself ever folding because someone may have hit a 1 outer to a royal flush!

I don't think anyone should be too critical just yet.

Dimissing the hand is like watching the first twenty minutes of a film and then declaring the whole film is crap.

that works for me with most movies to be honest. :)

If you watch Some Like It Hot, the first twenty minutes is pure build up, and pretty unfunny.

I saw that... it was absolute rubbish!

 ;marks;

Dubai, your posts always bring a smile to my face. Not because I think you're a particularly amusing guy, but because you seem blinded by your own irony and lost in a world of self-delusion.

Let me explain...

First and foremost you always insist that you don't like what I have to say but you are always lurking around seemingly eager to read what I have to write. I don't profess to understand this mentality because e.g. if I decide I dislike an author I refrain from buying their books.

Anyway, moving on....in the isolation of your own mind you see this as "the most basic of poker hands" requiring "no thinking whatsoever" when in reality you couldn't be more wrong. A range of players with a host of different ideas have contributed their opinions. Strategy for playing the flop alone has been remarkably diverse with plays ranging from checking to betting upto 2k. That's a massive variance. If the hand required no thought opinion would be quite uniform.

These are real people who play the game and have their own unique take on every situation. You really struggle to grasp this concept. Whilst the poker industry fails to even agree upon a standard set of rules for poker you believe that there is only one correct way to approach a particular hand...and that is your way. The weight of evidence is not in your favour I'm afraid and your words only serve to highlight your failings.

Your smug criticism suggests you think you know the right decisions to make but you never actually offer that advice up. It is like Martin Luther King saying "I have a dream"...the crowd wait with baited breath before he announces..."But I'm not prepared to talk about it cos you're all fish". If that was actually his famous speech he would have looked like a fool. But this is what you do.

I think you forget that the PHA Board is a learning resource for players wanting to make some progress in the game. You wade in with your self-appointed PHD in poker and run people down. Who benefits from that? It's like a maths professor waltzing into a secondary school and chastising the pupils for being stupid. Now whilst you may feel an intricate and deeply philosophical highbrow poker hand may be suitable for this learning resource I don't. The fact is my brief is to post a hand that creates discussion and debate but the success of the hand is sadly not judged on Dubai's scale of complexity. It's measured by hits and posts. So while your intention may be to try and bring me down a peg or two your contribution has only served to make this one of the most successful HOTW's so far. Do you see what I'm saying about irony?

I have recently written an article entitled "Highbrow Poker Snobbery", I will post it soon (I am sure you will read it) and you score a perfect bullseye in those stakes. You fail to appreciate the difference of opinion that exists in the game whilst failing to offer your own. You can't judge opinion as correct or incorrect. That is a fact. The forum is designed to solicit opinion from every type of player and as such we help each other's education. I care not whether my opinion is "right" or "wrong" in your world...but I will respond when someone is disrespectful, it shows a distinct lack of class...a characteristic you seem familiar with. It may earn you a few sniggers from your Beavis and Butthead cronies but it only serves to highlight your naivety and it prevents potential posters from getting involved. What a difference you make.

Anyway, on to more serious matters. You suggest my words are incoherent and I congratulate you for this. Confronting your reading gremlins is the first step in making progress with your literacy. There are currently some excellent college courses available as well as home study programmes that will help you resolve these issues.

I can see some of your problems surfacing in your post though...
You can't use the word "the" in such quick succession here because then the sentence wont make any sense. But it took guts to try so fair play.

Like Byron said, keep reading the board though because you will begin to realise poker is as individual as the person who plays it. All comments are valid and all opinions are welcome. I am setting the alarm clock and putting on a fresh pot of coffee as we speak.

p.s. Who's Al?

 ;tightend; ;hattip;

ive had some pretty uneventful shags 20 minutes in, but always had a good ending! ;)

so dont be so quick to judge!

mantis,

u r the best. i mean that. that reply is better than any type of humourous put down i could ever have thought of.

i read your reply and have it stuck in my head that if chris eubank was to read this out loud it would be even funnier. try it at home!!

keep up the good work mate.

All,

thanks for the laugh, this thread has it all!

Mantis,


I eagrely await your advanced theoretical analysis on how best to "trap" someone in this spot!

Keep up the good work people

Loving your work Mantis

LOVING

YOUR

WORK

Rubdown of the week anyone?

I think the river is going to be the case King and opponent has an ace, in which case Shiiiiip it as moneys going in.

Must admit if I was convinced I was ahead I would have checked the turn and feigned worry about the possible Flush (reason being I like to appear passive when I'm sure I'm ahead as it invokes more chance of people betting into you and if you then show strength it can help later on if you want to cheaply stay in a hand as people remember you playing a monster passively so are wary about bullying tactics).

Are all HOTW threads this much fun?

Part III

Right, onwards with our Basic Hand of the Week.

On the flop my intention was to tell a story of weakness. A story I hoped my opponent would buy into. My body language and behaviour was strong even though the size of my bet could be considered weak and inconsistent with this behaviour. In an attempt to seal the deal I threw in a couple of bluff tells. I appreciate that if my opponent has an Ace the hand will play itself out but the motivation behind my efforts was to try a snag him even IF he doesn't have one. If he doesn't believe me he MAY call on the flop with atc's to try and wrestle the pot from me on the turn....something he could achieve with the smallest of bets. I have nothing to loose.

So if he has bought the story and thinks he's got me sussed I must offer him the consistency he's looking for on the turn...to confirm his suspicions that I am in fact weak. So what hand would I re-raise pre-flop with that wouldn't like this board? Maybe a pair of Jacks or Queens? I know that on this flop if I check with a pair like this I will ultimately be surrendering the pot...so I might take a stab at it. Hopefully, looking strong will scare my opponent away.

What would you do with Queens on the turn now that you have been called? It would difficult to fire another bullet off I think. You would probably check. This is consistent with his reading of the situation. So when the  5c falls this is actually a good card. It is true that we would find it difficult to put him on a flush but he would be thinking likewise. So the point is that our actions and this card provide him with an open invitation to represent either the Ace or the flush in spite of his actual holding.

Of course, he could very well have an Ace but I think that he would flat-call the flop bet here as well, especially if he thinks I am weak, because why would he want to scare me away? I am betting into him with an inferior hand and he is sitting pretty with position and feels in charge of the hand.

So I check

...he reaches for chips and I immediately reach for chips as well. This is a great tell for weakness I think because why would I want to stop him betting if I am strong?

He pauses...then disappointingly checks as well. Why would he check?

The River

The river is peeled of and it is....

 Qd

We now have a board of

 Ac  Ad  Kc  5c  Qd

What are your thoughts about this card? What is your move now?

I check.

My opponent thinks motionless for a good while. The he announces "I'm all-in".

What on earth do we do now? That face card on the end was not a good one for us. I have just paid $1000 to enter and this is the very first hand and I still have 3,400 chips left. Can you make this call? If you do make the call what do you expect your opponent to hold and is it likely that you will now be beat? Is folding a far better alternative considering how far from the nuts we actually are now?

The reveal should come on Sunday...but then again if Snoopy's last effort was anything to go by it could be nearer Christmas...lol.

Once again thanks for all your comments..it's been a really entertaining one this time.

what on earth do you do now? You just put him on JJ or QQ..so going by that logic he ha a lower FH than you have..it's the easiest call in the world in that case.
Doing by your reasoning you should love that face card on the river as it 's the only card that he would move all his chips to the middle with.

If he has AA, AK, AQ and A5 you're beat. A5 is very unlikely.
With AA and AK you would have been beat on the flop already..and I'm thinking you would have stuck all your chips in the middle on this flop so that's just the way it is.

So the only hand you are now all of a sudden scared off is AQ. If he indeed has AQ you have just played this hand very poorly as you could gotten all his chips in the middle a lot earlier..then you could atleast have complained about him sucking out on you as you walk to the bar. If your chips go in the middle now (and by GOD they should) it's your own fault.

Unless you're Jennifer Tilly you can not fold a full house here. If you get done here that's fair enough but it's still a very easy call....especially since you think he has QQ.

Posted by: boldie


I think you have mis-read the last part boldie. JJ or QQ are the hands I am hoping to represent myself...not the hands I particularly put my opponent on.

okeleydokeley..did mis-read that part, sorry mate.

Chippies still go in for me as I am not in the habit of folding a full house

given the way u played the turn and river, snap call

insta call, by checking the turn (which i would have done) I think you have to take anything thats coming and accept that the whole lots going in

I bet the river, wouldn't want to risk a check behind

 I think Tighty is right I would also have bet out on the river, but once we check it can only be to induce some kind of bluff steal or allow our opponent to make a value bet with a lesser holding.

I've got to make the call, we played the hand to get all his chips in the middle and thats just whats happened so we may not like it but it's all going in.

I dont really like betting the river after checking the turn, its such an obvious line that if the opponent is a semi thinking player he can dump a lot of hands to a bet that might well valuebet the river if we check..ie:

you bet flop hoping to get raised, check the turn hoping to slide in the c/r or snap off a bluff, and when you get to the river you are thinknig "oh noes, only one more chance to bet, might as well shovel it in!" and given that you got called on the flop, and the draw got there on the turn, I'd just bet the turn and expect to get it in, because hes never gonna try and bluff here, and most liekly isn't gonna have a hand that needs to bluff

Obviously sometimes its going to go check/check on the river and he will showdown a hand that maybe might have called a river bet, but one of the meta-game benefits of having this shown down is that you wont have to fear being taken off marginal hands as much OOP because people could suspect you of trapping, so you can play out of position with a bit more confidence, and the value of this is pretty high later on when the blinds--->stack ratio shallows (as long as your table aint gonna break any time soon!)

so tl;dr, checking the turn imo was the big mistake in the hand

I'm never ever folding here, but why are we not value betting the river? OK, he pushed all-in which i'm presuming were pleased with, but I defeinetly bet 40% of the pot on the river hoping to get called by a medium pair or a weak A...

I'm surprised that folks on here seem to not only applaud Mantis's nasty and childish comments to Dubai but actually encourage them.
As was alluded to the board is for all to voice their opinions theoretically without being the subject of ridicule, actually i think it's in the board rules.
It has always been a bit of a "thing" for me when people are criticised for poor spelling or grammar, i find it incredibly rude.

As for the hand, reraise pre, CB flop if there is any sign that oppo likes his hand shove the turn because you are not going to get chips off anyone without an ace unless he's a complete idiot and if he has one then the chips are going in anyway.

Posted by: ifm                            Posted on: Today at 10:03:16 am
I am a little confused by your opinion ifm.

The fact that a member enters a debate and labels the content therein..."incoherent spew" is "nasty", "childish" and is an attempt to "ridicule" genuine comment. These are the things that you suggest are a bit of a "thing" for you. So please don't be surprised to find that they are a bit of a "thing" for me too. It would be a little hypocritical if you were. The fact that some people applaud my comment is because they feel the same way as me....and the same way as you??

Mantis, being serious for just one second, does it not make you think just a little bit when excellent players (not talking about myself here) disagree with a lot of what you say?

I personally don't have a problem with you saying things that either I think are wrong or know to be wrong. it's just the way you write so authoritively that puts me slightly on tilt.

If you said things like I THINK it's 10/1 to catch a set or PERHAPS 33 plays better against a 3 bettors range that AK I think you would find that people would start trying to help you out instead of ranting at you.

Whatever tho, you do provide entertaining threads :)

Byron, I don't have a problem with anyone's disagreement with my views. I think poker wouldn't be the game that we all love if everyone thought along the same lines. I read and digest ALL opinion nomatter what the quality of the source and choose what I want to incorporate into my thinking.

Someone who started playing yesterday may say something that I like and then again D Brunson may say something that I don't. I am happy enough to play the game my way. This may be an individual and unique way but I like the fact that poker lets you be individual and unique.

So for example I dont agree with the comment "know to be wrong"...because who has written the rulebook of what is right and wrong? In poker there are a lot of players who say you are "wrong" because you don't think like they do. I maintain that to approach poker from an individual perspective can only be "right".

I put my views out there and some people will agree and some people wont. My aim is not to get everyone to conform to MY way....it's just my way. When you post your thoughts you leave yourself open to criticism and I expect this. But it takes more courage to do this than to just slag someone else's thoughts off like Dubai did. Yes, I have the courage of my convictions and I am sorry if you think that this is a bad thing. Having confidence playing poker is a worthwhile attribute I think and my writing style is very different to how I speak. But my views do change based on what I see and read (including Blonde Poker) because I know we are ALL learning.

For me poker is about winning money, enjoying yourself, being both competitive and social at the same time and expressing who you are...not pleasing and conforming to the views of other people who may judge you to be "right" or "wrong". I don't care about that.

I never tell another player they are wrong. It's like Muslims telling Jews they're wrong. But there remains a lot of players who seemingly wont rest until you agree with them. The problem is they don't post their views so you never actually get the chance to try.

Ok so I was wrong about the king on the river ;D

Personally I'm not convinced I'm ahead on this board but as everyone else seems to be then it's an instant call, as you state you don't really want to go out of this size tournament so early and it maybe that which is dictating your opponents play, knowing that this is likely to be the mind-set of most players early on they maybe be prepared to risk it all hoping to buy a chip-lead (not a strategy I'd adhere to personally but have seen this before where people have had to show complete bluffs early on in competitions).

I wouldn't be surprised to find you were pretty much drawing dead to the case king after the flop but having called the flop bet and played to the river you are pretty much obligated to call - if you are thinking of folding now you surely should have done this on the flop.

Interesting hand though and it's certainly provided a lot of debate - poker eh!!

A really good post Flea.

You blurred that a little, my "thing" as i openly said regards folks taking the piss out of members because of spelling or grammar.
You took the high road there and i said you were rude, i actually think much worse of people who do this but i'm behaving of late so rude will have to suffice.

Lol @ this thread, a lot of ego's bouncing about in here. I like river check, are we never folding this hand and wanting to induce a bluff? Im a little bothered about AQ, but not enough. Most players are milking those type of holdings early doors and dont want to lose you.

The reveal and conclusion to this hand can be found here:

http://www.blondepoker.com/index.php?q=node/12476 (http://www.blondepoker.com/index.php?q=node/12476)