blonde poker forum

A crazy dealers choice home game with 7 players, blinds 25p/25p/optional straddle(s). Game starts small but has been going for about 6 hours and stacks vary from 50-500. It is about 11am and the game is winding down. Player A who is a solid player calls the double straddle of 1. Player B who is a weak novice player on tilt raises to 5 in SB. Player C (me) in the double straddle calls the 4 more and player A calls the 4 more.

Flop Jd Jh 8c I hold  Jc 9c 9d 8d 7h 7s 

Player B who has a stack of 50 bets 15. Every time player B has flopped a big hand previously he has checked and this particular player has no real concept of hand value, therefore i can't really give him credit for much. I raise to 50 to put him all in as he is the kind of novice player who will call with an overpair or straight draw. At this point player A throws a spanner in the works by raising me to 150. Player A is a seasoned internet player and has been playing only good wraps, AAds and the like all night. Both of us started the hand with stacks of around 500 and are the big winners for the game.

What would you do in this situation i was faced with?

WTF, are you truly being serious?

You have J8 which is the nuts. You want to fold the nuts? Do you hate money? All-in and if he has same hand with higher boat redraws, so be it. I expect he has 88 or same hand, but you never know.

Yes I am being serious, interesting to see if anyone else has a different opinion on what is not as simple a decision as you make it sound.

If your opponent knows what he's doing, I can find a fold here because your stacks are so deep and the game is winding down.  If he has the same hand and overcards, you are losing a lot by continuing.  If he has a lone jack with 4 overs you aren't that much of a favourite.  I would call if If his raise put me allin or just about.

he has 810JQKA, pass!

throw them chips in as quick as possible

you have the nuts and the ony draws you face are too bigger boats

You have noticed that they are playing with 2000bb stacks?

hum that makes a difference


calling the hundred raise and pushing in on an none broadway turn would be an option

but i dont like the folding of the nut boat in this position

i would fold a nut straight without a redraw

you are likely to be getting it in here ahead but against draw to a bigger boat

with the novice in the pot you can take away some of the outs to the bigger boat

thus making it less likely for him to hit

I call and then get ready to push if no overcards to the board appear on the turn.

I play 6 card omaha most nights of the week in a lively dealers choice cash game and i consider it to be more of a game of skill than 4 card omaha

ok the hand :  !st thing is the quote  " I can't really give him credit for nuts"  Thinking like this will only get you into trouble. He has 6 cards in his hands  anyone can flop the nuts. If you dont put him on the Jack then the odds are that a player behind you will have it.

The play i make here is to flat call his 15 bet on the flop. He only has 35 remaining and he will put that in on the turn or river. Flat calling allows you to see who else at the table is interested in the pot.

You now discover that Mr deepstack is interested and he wants to raise you. With the pot controlled and you not revealing the complete strength of your hand it will cost you less to see the turn if he does still decide to raise.

You havent told us if mr shortstack calls allin or not.

So we call the smaller raise to see the turn card. We only want to see another jack (very doubtful) 1 of 2 nines or a card 8 or lower

If a lower card comesyou have the option to check or jam. If you Jam the odds are that he has a freeroll on you and he has a good chance of hitting an overcard on the river to scoop your whole stack. Advantages of jamming are that he cant bluff you off the pot on the river if it comes a higher card than the 8 but he still misses.

if you decide to check call you are still controlling the size of the pot as best you can. You get to see the river and then get to make the decision upon seeing the river card.

There is a chance that he has pocket 8s and is trying to win the pot there and then or that he is building the pot on the draw witth a Jack and lots of overcards. So if the turn and river both come under cards you can now value bet the river and he will prob call due to the size of the pot.

Lots to think about def a huge game of skill. Flopping the nuts aint always easy

Ok, I'll tell you what actually happened. Player B claims hadn't even looked at his cards up until the raise from player A on the flop and mucked, he must have had no Jack and no overpair to pass for 35 more. I considered my options.

1) Re-raise all in on the flop - no way.

2) Call the flop and hope for one of the two 9's or lower on the turn and bet first -  tempting but the risk reward just isn't there for me.

3) Pass like a baby losing 50, well maybe.

I think there is no way a solid player would be foolish enough to raise with the underfull. This risks his whole stack to be drawing dead or at least be an underdog against a yet to fill up JXXXXX. In 6 card I wouldn't even call in player As spot if all I had was 88XXXX. I have to give him J8XXXX, its all he can have. So what is XXXX? I figure him to have probably 3 overs to the 9 and he could have 4. This means I have to put in another 450 to win 65 from the pot of 130 or lose the lot which looks as though it will happen about %35 of the time or more.

So I passed, but before mucking my cards I offered a prop bet to some of the players that I had passed J8. They all creased like I was totally mental. I insisted I was serious and posted the cash. Chips were thrown at me left right and centre and after counting I was nearly even for the hand, what a result. Player A was kind enough to show me his hand as we are good mates and he had 3810JKA so I was in a bad spot.

Could I have just called on the flop? maybe, but then I'm giving AA KK QQ cheap draws and after all I did have the nuts. I suppose the lesson here is that when the stacks are very deep pot size control is a major consideration, especially out of position. However after about 6 cans of stella that morning I was lucky to have any reasonable thought process at all. Thanks for your responses.
 

Blah, uv got the nuts, all-in.

Nice fold.

And this is advice from a man that passes QQ in a £1 £2 NLH cash game ;)

easy fold. but do it faceup