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Poker Forums => The Rail => Topic started by: Ironside on July 09, 2008, 12:14:00 AM



Title: spitting feathers
Post by: Ironside on July 09, 2008, 12:14:00 AM
i play poker for fun and when i play the most important thing is to enjoy myself if i make some money then fine

tonight i was playing in a national pub chains £100 maximium prize pool (to keep themselves legal) it a £5 to enter

winner takes all 16 runner £80 comp

it was all going well i was getting hit in the face

when on a flop i put in a 300tc bet into a 400 pot with the blinds at 50/100

guy throws in 500 and says raise to 500 i say no you must make it 600

he does after a wee bit of a hissy fit and i say if you want a ruling just ask the manager

anyway i reraise all in he calls with 2nd pair and i win with my top pair he is out (the comp gives everyone a 2nd chance after the first break)

during the break the manager calls me over with the rules saying i was WRONG he could of raise too 400 if he wants shows me the rules

i told him the rules were a mess but i will stand by that rule if those rules were confirmed (he phoned the people in charge and they confirmed that

for there comps the mimium reraise was the big blind)

now i was annoyed for the first part that the guy wanted to go and chase up the rule AFTER he lost the pot and not when i asked him too

so now put me in a not enjoying the game mood as i dont like tension


THEN

short handed on the FT i limp in sb with 33 after a limp and get raised by bb (bit of a rock with just as many chips as me) so dont want to get heavily involed

now the short stacked limper moves all in but i think its ok he hasnt reopened the pot as its an under raise and call hope to hit a set or bail

execpt there isnt an underraise and the guy bet more than the big blind so i get rerereraised fuming i nearly just called inspite of such a silly rule

and the fact i just wasted too many chips without getting to see the flop

i folded as i knew the BB had a huge hand now


really pissed me off getting into 2 "rows" over a friendly game of cards due to there rules being toss

i told the table if i win the money is taintained and it will all go into the charity bottles

got HU with 2-1 chip lead massive blinds compared to chips got him all in with AQ v his 88 he hit an 8 to leave me drawing dead

then he call my all in shove after limping with his A4 v my QJ and the rest was history

i still put £20 in the charity bottles but dont know if i will ever play there again as i just hate disputes in poker i play for fun  and

i think thats the first time i have ever played and not enjoyed myself



Title: Re: spitting feathers
Post by: vegaslover on July 09, 2008, 12:28:41 AM
Have heard of plenty of shite like this regarding rules, in various local pub tournies. Shows just how little many of the recreational poker players know. I certainly wouldn't be playing there again in your situation


Title: Re: spitting feathers
Post by: Ironside on July 09, 2008, 12:30:29 AM
Have heard of plenty of shite like this regarding rules, in various local pub tournies. Shows just how little many of the recreational poker players know. I certainly wouldn't be playing there again in your situation

it was the national chains rules

the guy on the phone he spoke to said i was right but for there rules to make it simple for the beginner there rule was the minimium rereiase was 1 bb


Title: Re: spitting feathers
Post by: boldie on July 09, 2008, 08:36:36 AM
Have heard of plenty of shite like this regarding rules, in various local pub tournies. Shows just how little many of the recreational poker players know. I certainly wouldn't be playing there again in your situation

it was the national chains rules

the guy on the phone he spoke to said i was right but for there rules to make it simple for the beginner there rule was the minimium rereiase was 1 bb

stupid explanation by the guy, essentialy saying "Let's teach people how poker doesn't work as poker is too complicated for them"



Title: Re: spitting feathers
Post by: kinboshi on July 09, 2008, 09:29:47 AM
Don't play poker in pubs.

Pubs for drinking, card rooms for poker.


Title: Re: spitting feathers
Post by: TightEnd on July 09, 2008, 09:33:08 AM
don't ring up mild mannered associate in middle of dispute with pub punter, rush through the situation and hand phone to pub punter to speak to mild mannered associate on, asking mild mannered associate to explain TDA rules to pub punter.

Thank you.


Title: Re: spitting feathers
Post by: jizzemm on July 09, 2008, 09:33:28 AM
Don't play poker in pubs.

Pubs for drinking, card rooms for poker.


Title: Re: spitting feathers
Post by: StuartHopkin on July 09, 2008, 09:58:39 AM
Which league is this Iron?

I run a redtooth night in my local, I glanced over their rules when it started, but have made it clear from the start i would be played to my rules. IE DTD rules + i have final say on anything bizarre.

If this is the same league i best check whats in their supplied rules and burn them. Started to get lots of new people turning. Dont want to have to set Evilpie on anyone for arguing with me.


Title: Re: spitting feathers
Post by: Ironside on July 09, 2008, 10:02:22 AM
it was the manager of pub tighty

and stuart it was red tooth


Title: Re: spitting feathers
Post by: TheWhisper on July 09, 2008, 12:39:34 PM
I always thought spitting feathers was an expression used for being thirsty.
This would have not been good in a pub game :)

The rulings are crazy and as Boldie says, why change from the rules just to make it easier.

Crazy rule changes are not just for poker though.
I took a team to a grass roots football tournament the other week and throw-ins were banned and had been replaced by kick-ins, this was done under the specific instruction of the FA. I have no idea why.


Title: Re: spitting feathers
Post by: Rod Paradise on July 09, 2008, 02:38:16 PM
I always thought spitting feathers was an expression used for being thirsty.

I thought he'd been molesting chickens again.


Title: Re: spitting feathers
Post by: ericstoner on July 09, 2008, 03:35:04 PM
As i've always said.[since pub poker started ] Ignorance of the rules,Bad venue,alcohol and testostrone= pub poker.........Always avoid.


Title: Re: spitting feathers
Post by: doubleup on July 09, 2008, 04:05:19 PM

I think I commented in another thread that someone who ran pub poker said they allowed under-raises "to give more play".


Title: Re: spitting feathers
Post by: boldie on July 09, 2008, 04:20:13 PM

I think I commented in another thread that someone who ran pub poker said they allowed under-raises "to give more play".

rotflmfao classic.


Title: Re: spitting feathers
Post by: Claw75 on July 09, 2008, 04:26:25 PM
I used to play in a pub league, but gave up on it in the end.  First off there was this strange rule implemented that if someone was all in with less than a big blind they would be entitled to receive one full big blind off everyone in the pot should they win it.  When I queried it with the host I was given the section of the rules on under raises to read.  He wasn't prepared to accept that it had been misread and said that that was the rule applied in all of the league venues.  I eventually got it sorted out after contacting their head office.

Now the league is done on a points basis, over a period of two months.  The top 100 players over that period qualify to play in a bigger event where there are fairly decent prizes up for grabs.  It was my last session of the period, and I was sitting in 97th place, so needed to get some points to consolidate my position.  The atmosphere that day was horrible.  There were two guys playing who thought they were god's gift to poker, kept talking to each other about all the 'fish' on the table, and how bad the standard of play was (yes, there was some dubious play, but this was a £5 pub league ffs and lots of people were playing to learn the game).  I was sitting next to one of them, and he put an oversized chip in for his BB, and I changed it up for him.  I'd not been playing poker long myself and wasn't aware that I'd broken etiquette, and these tournaments were normally played in a friendly, fun, spirit.  He snatched his chip back off me and yelled 'what the fuck are you doing?!'  'er, you looked like you could use some change' 'don't you fucking dare touch my chips again without asking, you hear me?'.  That was that, I wasn't enjoying it, so I had a word with the host to find out what would happen if I left (if I was going to be blinded out, I was pretty much guranteed the points I needed and would leave, otherwise I'd grin and bear it).  He said that there was no rule as such, it was down to the host's discretion.  He confirmed that my chips would be left on the table, I would be blinded out, and my finishing position would be determined accordingly, so I went home.

Got a call the next day from my mate who was playing to say that after I'd left someone else at the table had queried my stack being left and blinded away, and had asked that the chips be redistributed to everyone on the table.  The host had buckled, redistributed my chips, and I'd been deemed as having finished in the position I'd left the game in.  I ended up finishing 101st in the league :(


Title: Re: spitting feathers
Post by: Grier78 on July 09, 2008, 06:21:59 PM
The main flaw with pub poker is that there is no risk as there is no buy-in. You only need a couple of idiots to keep banging their chips in to ruin the game for everyone, the main point about pub poker is that its supposed to be fun, often its anything but.


Title: Re: spitting feathers
Post by: TEX FITZ on November 10, 2008, 11:00:38 AM
just read through this thread and lol'd at every comment. My last post was a redtooth game and everything on this thread has happened at my games, i don't run the games i just sit and play after previous arguments ; trying to explain split pots because the kicker is on the board ( A,7 v A,6 all-ins )  ;dingdell;
tried to explain the dead dealer rule situation and lost. Didn't even attempt to explain table balancing (6,3) ;frustrated;
my GF has qualified to play the regional finals at the Circus Newcastle 30th Nov so she's hoping it will be run better than the local games, maybe see some Blondes there, i'm going for the free buffet


Title: Re: spitting feathers
Post by: kinboshi on November 10, 2008, 11:26:44 AM
They had a pub poker league final at DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/) earlier this year and there was a funny situation at the cash game.  One of the pub-league players (who kept on announcing that he was raising 300 or 500 when he meant £3 or £5) was explaining how good a player he was and generally being a bit of an arse. 

A young lad sat at the table, and put his MP3 player on.  I think he only put it in one ear though, probably so he could still hear the table.  The arsey fella soon asked the dealer if the player was allowed to have the MP3 player on, and the dealer said it was fine.  So the arsey fella immediately asked the young lad what he was listening to and that he was bang out of order because he could be getting secret messages about other players' hands.  Others at the table thought this was quite amusing, but he continued to harass the young lad and generally talk bollocks.  

He took umbrage when a player asked to see his second hole card at a showdown, and didn't understand why he had to show both cards to claim the pot. Then a few minutes later he folded to a river bet and the other player slid his cards into the muck after revealing one of his cards.  The arsey fella grabbed his other card and flipped it over and when he was told this was very wrong, he couldn't see the difference between that situation and his earlier.

After fifteen minutes myself and another player at the table were bidding to borrow the MP3 player off the young lad so we didn't have to listen to the arsey gobshite.  Fortunately, he disposed of a couple of buy-ins and left the table soon after and we could go back to enjoying ourselves.  I think if he'd been there for any longer something would have been done and he might have been thrown out for his behaviour.

I'd guess he's not typical of pub poker players, but you only need one like that in a game that's not being well run under rules that resemble common sense, to make it a disaster.  So as far as pub poker goes, for that reason, I'm out.


Title: Re: spitting feathers
Post by: Cf on November 10, 2008, 12:02:06 PM
This is why TDA/RR exist, to stop this sort of thing happening.

With that raise rule for example, it's almost like you're playing a FL/NL hybrid. They say it's easier for beginners, but I don't really see how. How is "your raise must at least equal the size of the previous raise" hard to follow. The bigger issue though is these beginners will start to think these are the actual rules of the game, and when they play elsewhere it will cause problems.

House rules are fine (eg, in my home game i have removed a players right to request to see cards at showdown, unless there is suspicion of collusion), but they should be a) minor changes, and b) well advertised to new players before the game begins.

There should also be a copy of the rules on hand.


Title: Re: spitting feathers
Post by: Laxie on November 10, 2008, 02:00:57 PM
I helped the owner of a local pub start a weekly Hold Em tourney at his place.  He hadn't a clue and left all rulings up to me, so I went based on the TDA rules as best I could.  When in doubt, I kept the doubt to myself and made as fair a call as I could on the night.  Then I'd come home and double check what I'd done was correct or post here for confirmation.  Regardless of right or wrong, I'd bring in a print out to show everyone the following week.  Only once did I have to return with apologies as it was one of those 'grey area' rules and I was only half right.  In the end, it stopped being fun for me because I had to act as the poker police all night and was sure to piss off at least one person each week...if not more.  They had 'different' rules at their other pub games (i.e. bully the owner long and loud enough to get your way).  "This isn't Vegas" was another favourite line.  The louder a regular shouted, the more the owner would doubt my ruling.  At one point, I printed out all of the rules for him and he never bothered to look at them.  "Never got around to it.  Besides, you're here so I don't need to."  That's when I stopped going.  Don't mind helping out, but I got no back up during disputes and refused to put up with further abuse.     

I've since gone back now and then, but don't get stuck in when trouble starts unless I'm involved in the hand.  I've told the pub owner it's his house and his job to police it.  They regularly act out of turn, but I say nothing.  They often only show 1 card at showdown if they think it's enough to win the pot.  If I'm in the hand and I've not played with them for a while, I'll ask to see the other card.  I like to know what rubbish they played with and keep in mind their betting patterns, but I don't explain my reasons as I just quote the rule and the rest have learned to back me up a bit.   

Pub poker is a pain in the backside to be sure (especially when you include the village idiot drunks), but if they're taught the proper way from the get go, it's less painful and you might even have a bit of fun.


Title: Re: spitting feathers
Post by: Cf on November 10, 2008, 02:22:04 PM
Pub poker is a pain in the backside to be sure (especially when you include the village idiot drunks), but if they're taught the proper way from the get go, it's less painful and you might even have a bit of fun.

This is the key point. It also ties in to when they said "this isn't vegas". Yes, it's a friendly game, but the whole point of having rules that should be strictly enforced is to make sure it remains a friendly game. When people start being lax with the rules it leads to all kinds of arguments and suddenly it's not fun anymore.


Title: Re: spitting feathers
Post by: TEX FITZ on November 10, 2008, 02:33:21 PM
I helped the owner of a local pub start a weekly Hold Em tourney at his place.

ditto, me and GF ran tournys for local

Quote
When in doubt, I kept the doubt to myself and made as fair a call as I could on the night.  Then I'd come home and double check what I'd done was correct or post here for confirmation.

ditto (try explaining split pots)

Quote
bully the owner long and loud enough to get your way).  "This isn't Vegas" was another favourite line.

ditto

Quote
Don't mind helping out, but I got no back up during disputes and refused to put up with further abuse.

ditto

Quote
I've since gone back now and then, but don't get stuck in when trouble starts unless I'm involved in the hand.

ditto, but then if i was involved in the hand the rules had changed (coz we were the outsiders against the regulars)

NEVER BEEN BACK