blonde poker forum

Well, here goes.  My first attempt at asking for staking and I have left it way too late I'm sure.

I wasn't going to play this event, but I am available now and just itching to play, as most people times are hard etc etc and I will stop babbling.

The Tournament - DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/)'s £330 Deepstack affair - THIS SATURDAY!!!!

The Proposal - The Ultra Fashionable 100% stake for 70% equity to the backers. 

So basically I am asking for the full £330 stake @ 5% chunks for £20.

EDIT:  Edited cos I forgot to clarify, that on any winnings - original stakes will be returned first then we'll chop it 70/30.

My record:
I have chopped this tournament before, last year 3 ways for £7,000 and ran deep or got stupidly unlucky in other DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/) £300's.  This structure also suits me very well and have a multitude of years of live experience.

This is my HendonMob database too:

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=54247


I implore you all to be kind at my first attempt at this and I will do my 110% best to bring home the bacon.

Anyone interested then please PM me or post here and lets see if we can do this !!

Transfer by blonde/stars/bank transfer, whichever is easiest for people.

Ty

I'll reserve 10% via Stars transfer please.

10% pls Maria- let me know how you want it :D

PM sent Maria

25% please, bank transfer, or cash on the day

pm sent maria

I'll take whatever's left please Maria. Bank xfer preferred

Wow - that was cool.  All gone.  Im really sorry Greekstein, but Rooks asked to take whats left by pm and it was at 9.07am, sorry mate!

Here are the magic 7  ;D

5% Scottm 
10% redsimon   
10% George2Loose
25% StuartHopkin
25% Robert HM
10% booder
15% Rookie

Thank you all muchly, I will contact you all and advise on transfer.

gogogogogogogogo an all that  :kiss:
 

good luck chilli would have liked 10% of this bloke myself  ;D

NANDO's chillibobs??

ty ITB


Try and stop me, club opens at 5pm but presume everyone will have bought in already by then (strongly suggest online reg before friday), so in a long route as usual, WHAT TIME?

kfjkhfgjhfudukuyfgjhjkh;lljg

that's all.




Oh and gl Maria!

poor bugger Cos, you keep getting in there just at the last minute.  On another note, just think how much money you have saved lol.  If I do win this tho, I don't think you will ever speak to me again lol.

I mite but it may just be lots of greek swearing!

I hope you ship the lot anyway - might see you there as I could be coming up this weekend to play. Got monday-weds off work but don't know if I cba to arrange it all.

Just arrange it boyo!!!

See you there fella :)up

Screw it I'm coming.

 ;mexicanwave;

Cause and effect IMO...

;tightend;

I'll be there on Sunday Cos - please say Hi, it's been years ince we crossed swords at Gala Notts!

I recall you as dashingly handsome. It was a while ago, mind.

Dashingly handsome. You DEFINITELY have me confused with someone else Tikay! lol.

I only ever played against you once. Was actually dealing on your table and tried the good old overbet bluff on a Q1010 board with 44. Unfortunately for me you made the hero call with AQ (lol) and I was a gonner. That was in my early donkey days though. Now I would only move in there with 77+.

I will definitely come and say hi and buy you a cup-a-soup beer.

Part of the reason I'm coming is to put a face to the names of all the blondes that will be there. Please come and say hi.

Cup a soup deffo the better option   ;)

I was a donkey then too - I'd never call now with A-Q on a Q-T-T Flop, in fact, I bin A-Q these days pre. Can't be too careful.

Oh, & Tea, please. Or if I really feel lairy, latte.

Look forward to it.

Ok folks, TY all funds recieved so am now registered and raring to go!

Gl to us all x

any live updates planned for this comp?

gl all

Yep, I believe DTD sponsoring them.

cool.
makes sense i guess.

cheers RHM

Will be away in the Cotswolds this w/e. Blackberry updates ftw.




Your Welcome GH

Gl Maria, win it all plz

Sorry couldn't take a %, busto. Won't be there either, sighhhhh.

Am i reading this right?

You are charging a not unreasonable but top end 1.43 on the buyin, fair enough.

Then you are also charging 1.2 when people are sending the funds?? Why is 10% £40?

1.71 is a bit ridic and abusing the good faith of blonde posters.

The more I read these live poker staking threads the odder I think the whole thing is.

With too much time on my hands I looked at the track record in general - apart from Aces & River Dave (decent expectations on both of these) the only notable score I could see was from the king of luton - The sicilian.

Not sure why people go for it really - especially in low buy in comps. I can't quite wrap my head around why any staking takes place in tourneys that cost less than a grand to enter.

T'internet consistent staking over a period of time I understand.

Well variance plays apart, i have not added it up but there can't have more than 50ish stakes that have actually got off the ground.

So 3/50 is obv not a great strike rate but it isn't at all outside the realms of statistical variance, that every stake was +ev in the given tourney.

The thing i bulk at is the mark ups on these stakes that people are offering, in some cases the stakees are getting nowhere near a fair bang for their buck and the variance of 1 tournament staking.That is why i have not staked anyone on this board, though there was the occasional spot like Flushy's partouche event which was so ++++ev where if I had that kind of $$$$'s hanging around, i would have considered it.

Sorry for the derailment and good luck Maria for the weekend, none of the above is realtedly directly to this thread, more a general opinion.

Flushy, with this being my first attempt at staking I wasnt sure how to go with it.  So what i did was look over previous posters request and based mine on the ones that people staked.  Seeing as no comment like this was put on others, why have i got the treatment.  I was just using a model that was being accepted previously on here.

I thought because posters are getting their stake back first before any chop comes out then that is acceptable.  Then again I am no expert on what is the perfect model for this, hence using past requests.

To suggest I am abusing the good faith of blonde posters is a bit low.

If any stakers think this, I will gladly pay back any stake before the tournament.

I think it would be really helpful if someone with experience of this kind of staking, eg, Flushy, made a template for others to follow, i'm sure 90% of ppl are 'unsure' what to charge, even experienced live players...

Like Maria, I , and I think most, would look over old posts as a first 'guide' without perhaps fully understanding what a fair price is...

I think the thing the flushy is getting at that you should be selling each 10%@£33 and then 5%@16.50. You are going to get £400 for a £330 tournament so you are making £70 before the tourney has started and then paying people 70% of the winnings.

The exception to this are where people build in expenses, when the tourney is far away from home. Given you are local this is unecessary.

Fwiw i don't think you are being malicious or anything of the sort, just you have unknowingly charged a bit too much juice.

Looks like an honest mistake by someone who's not asked for staking before.

Effectively Maria you are being paid to play in this event. You get £70 even if you go mental first hand and get busted.

What Flushy is saying is that it's fair enough to ask for the 100% stake for 70% equity because of your abilities but to guarantee yourself a payout no matter what is a bit much.

If you want to sell at 1.73 the preferable way would be to sell 100% for 55% equity (or whatever it works out at) but not over sell.

I know you've not done it on purpose but to mark up on the equity and with an over sell can look like a sneaky way of increasing your take from the event.

The usual way to do these is to either:

a - Sell at a premium. This means that you sell each £33 share for more than it's actually worth because you have an edge over the field. If you do it this way you would keep a certain % for yourself so that you make something if you cash.

For example you sell half of your action for £200 and you pay the other £130 yourself. You keep 50% of any cash the rest goes to backers. Backers are paying £200 for £165 worth of entry which is an over sell of 1.21

b - Sell 100% for a set equity. This means that you sell all of your action but only pay out a set % of winnings to backers. By keeping 30% for yourself backers effectively only get 70% of the value of their stake. each £33 is only worth £23.10. The mark up here is (£33/£23.10) 1.43

By combining the two you have sold at 1.43x1.21 which as Flushy says is 1.73.

All that said, it's laid out clearly on the OP and if any stakers didn't read it properly then more fool them, they shouldn't be in the staking game.

I don't think anyone so far has charged 30% equity which i think is fair, but also wacked an extra 20% on after! If they had i would have said the same thing, your shares should be 33/10% not 40.

Now i look again it does look like an honest mistake, i didn't mean to sound harsh Maria but you have inadvertently overcharged a £330 product by £70!

Surely the fact it is there in writing is enough?
Mistake or no mistake no one has been cheated.

The whole idea that this staking is about working out if someone has an edge of 1.76384794 is a joke.
Its about a bit of fun and helping people play tournaments they might not otherwise be able to.

If peope were unhappy with the calculation they wouldnt stake her.

The staking Flushy does is a whole different level to this. Professional long term staking if you like. Where as this is a one of gamble.

Oh yeah! Just remembered what the field is like at these £300's

I would suggest anyone who posts on these boards could reasonably sell at 4.4

To suggest that I am abusing people's good faith is just plain wrong but to suggest that I am a thick donkey without thinking out my proposal properly is totally 100% TRUE.  I do feel like a complete div to be honest, I see what I have done by charging a premium twice over is NOT at all what I wanted from this.

Wish I could go back and do this agian sigh, what I should have really is only sold 70% at a small premium and not 100%.  What I will do though is refund everyone the difference from £20 for 5% to £16.50 for 5%.

So sorry to the backers, please could you pm your bank details and I will do this ASAP.

Redsimon & Booder, I will do this through stars.

Ooopses Did I do the same ? if so I must owe my backers 70 correct?. BTW GL this weekend Maria xx Can someone with more experience take a look mine way back in Dec then if i do owe i will gladly return any that i owe.

Fck 'em it's their own faults  ;)

No you didn't.

You are an honest upstanding Blonde unlike some other unscrupulous characters I could mention.

damn, thought u were coming dtd this weekend. Thought i could get a nando's threesome on the cards!  fml,

The Grantham Grimmer strikes again.

She's got some front, eh? ;)

PS - yup, donkey is right. But I have to say, from years of personal experience with Maria, staking her, doing genuine business with her, (as I still do to this day), she's the most honest person I've ever met. She'd not do anyone for a penny-piece. She just messed up the Proposal.

lol, I wish.

the comp or the nandos ;-)

Damn you Tikay, I have worked for years keeping my Grantham Grimmer identity a secret and you have blown it.  You in particular, I have been working on my sweetness and light routine for 5 years now!!

Also, yes my front is large but that's a private issue between me and my bra.....

No boyband to join us, or is it just us??

Chilli and I both agree only if you wore THEM shorts. )

think its just me, you, and middy!

Chilli is so obv going to win this now - all this hullaballoo about a genuine mistake (or that she wanted to buy new shoes - not sure which) will only spur her on to win the bloody thing.

Gl Maria x

Thanks Fran,
Yes damn, thats a great Idea but I can't play tonight, I have to have my nephew early in the morning for few hours! Not a morning person at the best of times lol.

I will get them the money back, least I can do.


Tracy, I think I love you.  Good vibes to you too hun and lets hope we don't meet at the table until we are heads up!

As a first time staking proposal I woulda done exactly the same.

Watch your wallet at Nando's though Trigg - I know a woman nicked a score off you earlier in the week but the Grantham Grimmer is a whole new kettle of fish!

May I post my comments, bearing in mind I am a staker so have a right to express my opinion.

I saw the thread and thought it a great chance to back someone with a bit of a game without financially stretching myself. I had a query so I PM'd Maria, got my answer and was happy with the reply. I knew exactly what I was buying into and was, and still am, completely satisfied with the deal.

There are different ways of staking people at different %s, some involve a hike up of the entrance fee, all have various divisions of equity. Nothing is set in stone, there is no rule that a player can't charge an element towards expenses as well as taking some equity. If you don't like the deal, don't deal. It would, perhaps, be a good idea to have a template but as long as a staker knows what he is buying into then there are no issues.

So, for the record, I read the details, understood them, struck a deal and will stick by the deal. As far as I am concerned that £70 is for refreshments, travel and a premium for the memory of that kilt in Glasgow, end off.

Now go and win some money for us. This is the start of my staking roll and would love to see it grow, I have already promised to stake someone else in a live comp if this shows a return (lol no pressure Maria).

I don't understand all this premium stuff, but all the MTT boys are into it so it must be cool. Would be interested if someone would make an attempt at a post along the lines of a good player in the £300 DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/), GUKPT, WSOP etc has an expected ROI of x% which means that it is fair for him/her to charge a y% premium cos surely many stakers have no clue as to what is fair or not.

perhaps could start off with if Phil (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=709) Ivey (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=709) was playing for example, and then we could gauge downwards from there (or upwards for people who think they are better than him)

So com that none of us stakees noticed this £70 premium. Guess we were excited at getting a piece of Maria :)

no disrespect to anyone on here who has asked for staking & pls call me a grumpy old man, but when i was hitting the circuit 5 or 6 years ago you sold 10% for 10%; it always struck me as fair.
the first i ever heard of selling with a small premium was the camel who sold some %s for the wsop main event at 1.2 a year or 2 back.
that seemed reasonable given his track record & the loction.

yeaahhh, guess i am feelin grumpy after all

Chuck up a staking thread at 1:1 grumps but warn me first, I'll be wanting to sell a kidney.

would've had a piece if I'd have seen it in time ( and weren't blowing my live roll at DtD next weekend)

gl gl gl

Ahh so you were AdamGG

 ;tightend;

By the way, I just wanted to clarify that I have paid back (or very nearly paid back) the backers the difference from £400 to £330.  So no addition to the cost price but the mighty 7 will get a cut of 70% of the winnings, after their full stake back of course.  That is all.

Back to the boobs.

Don't think you had to answer to anyone Maria, we all knew too well it was genuine.  GL.. xx

(http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2007/03/13/511338/topskipswagonNICEpic.jpg)

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc43/kinboshi/2cars-1.png)

Really don't get why you would post that James. You can sell a product at whatever price you want. Buyers can accept or decline. Once the product has been purchased what use is it making all parties feel disillusioned with the arrangement? Do you stop people on BP's forecourt to tell them petrol is too expensive? Do you write to Fernando Torres to tell him he is paid too much? The fact the seller appears 100% genuine gives buyers a better crack at a profit than some staking opportunities that get posted on this forum imo. Some have suggested you post a model you see as standard. That would be a positive way to express your views on staking value. Even then, if someone chooses to deviate from that model what business is it of yours? Anyway, many would agree Maria is better looking than you so can sell shares in herself at a higher premium than you on that basis alone.

So if you were staking someone in a tourney you would expect 100% of any returns ?

For a 100% stake he would,but he quoted 10% for 10%

somebody does need to post these things, it seems most people's stake requests are snapped up as a bit of interest in people they know personally or through blonde- this is great, everyone benefits. The problem arises in that people see X- small amout for interest in someone they know and snap it up without really considering it - here the poster nor the stakers realised the stake was construted badly, flushy commented, stakers and stakee rectified in good faith and you can bet it won't happen again to any of them.

people really should question these stakes a bit more carefully, this is the 2nd staking thread in a week that i have looked at and been stunned at how happily people leap into obviously questionable stakes.

How many stakers didnt notice this?
I for one sure did.
Didnt care. If she wanted to add £70 for Vodka and Cranberry juice go for it.
If i was bothered I wouldnt have staked her.

Buddy, I didn't dispute whether somebody needed to post those things. I suggested a staking model thread outlining suitable value %'s would have been a constructive method. But jumping on here to voice those opinions after stakes have been agreed between parties is out of line imo. Thing is, just insta-posting a negative comment is so much easier than taking the time and trouble to produce a template...but that doesn't mean it's appropriate.

People need to appreciate that the very best of value isn't necessarily the only reason people want to stake someone. You may think someone's running hot, you may think someone plays well at a specific venue, you may just have a feeling. Your money your business imo. For you ACE2M it's value, but that's you. In the 1997 WSOP ME Billy Baxter staked a peniless crack addict in Stu Unger for $10k. Everyone told him he was wasting his money...no value you see. That stake was based on a 50/50 share and it netted Baxter $500k. Terrible value indeed.

I did praise the fact that most staking is done on a friendly basis, just pointing out that even so, people need to mind what they do, if they could all honestly say they realised the juice they were paying and would have happily carried on without querying it then fair enough.

Absolutely no disrespect to chilly or the stakers, they are all lovely.

hi ralph,
yeah, in the past i would sell up to 50% of my action & interested parties would receive a straight swap with no overlay.
tony was my main man in the early ept's before i got sponsored & i was always chuffed that him & 1 or 2 others had enough faith in me to put up some of the lolly.
i was the sole benefactor of the recognition i started to get, which ultimately led to sponsorship.
when you consider the potential silver linings that can come with a big result, the money they invested on a 50/50 basis was invaluable; my backers were instrumental in my success & the swaps seemed very fair both then & with the benfit of hindsight, now.

glglgl

I already explained why i posted Mantis, i don't need to do it again.

As for being constructive i am in the process of writing a template for live staking which hopefully people will be able to use.

I am back from DTD and if you read the update then out of course.  I am so sorry guys I am not on here telling you I'm going to sleep now cos I made day 2 as one of the chip leaders!

Instead, I don't even have much of a story to tell you all.  I had a few hands, all in the first level, QQ's a couple times, KK, AK - all either getting the blinds or winning the minimum.  There was a very tidy player on our table, don't know his name but I think he made it deep in Walsall last week.  He was up and down like a yoyo and in every pot and think most of us were just biding our time to "catch" him.  Well I lost a few k to this chap on monster draws, with me flopping open enders and nut flush draws and missing them both.  We all knew if we could just hit against him, he would pay us off with weak holdings.

My chips just dribbled basically after, completely card dead, my hand had a 2 in it 80% of the time I swear.  Every pot was expensive to enter and coupled with hitting NOTHING eva, they didn't last too long.  In the 150/300 level with 3,200 left I find AJ in the bb, its raised by Nirvana (not for the first time on my blind), it folds round to me and I push.  He insta calls with 7's and first card out is the 7 of diamonds, followed by 2 more diamonds.  I am holding the Ace of diamonds but black brick and black brick on the river sends me spinning to the rail.

I loved the time I was in the comp and very grateful to have played in another one of these thanks to my stakers, just sorry I didn't run like god just THIS TIME!!!

what does that aesopian fable have to do with value?  the profiteers of the gambling world make all their bank on that kind of attitude.

Sounds like one of those days when poker can be so frustrating! Unlucky Maria- if you want stakage next month save me 10% pls

Ta

Maria

I'll have 20% for next month please in the £330   

Also if you want to play the £165 today i'll do 35% to me for £82.50

email me @ work if your intrested.

Regards

M

Everything. Because putting people and their capabilities into equations in order to produce a generic value answer is impossible. If you have faith in someone, you can see value others can't. Does this mean there is value in that person or not? It can only be a matter of opinion really, so in that respect value in people is subjective rather than objective. That's why telling someone a share in player x isn't worth what they paid doesn't compute. A share is worth precisely what people are prepared to pay for it. And the value of that investment in a person, to the backers anyway, is best quantified by the return.

You also need to factor that value doesn't necessarily need to be purely financial. This week Rookie's dog made her track debut. That was excellent. I would imagine all the connections who went to the track would say they had terrific value for their £10 bet. All that excitement and stuff. Better value than any other £10 dog bet anyways. If the betting hacks told these people the value was actually in trap 3 they would disagree. Those bets did give THEM value, and that's all that matters if you choose to lay a stake.

Great!

The first time I ever put up a staking thread, I did it on a no overlay basis.  Flushie immediately PM'ed me to say that I should be selling at a small mark up to cover expenses etc. So the next time I did it, I added what I thought was a fair premium (£130 for 10% of a £1060 comp)

Having said that, I'm still a bit unsure about what's fair and I would be glad to have some sort of guide (as long as it's not to complicated)

I'm with Julian here in that I only ever sell 50% and only ever at face cost. Can't see why anyone should ever have to pay a premium myself.

+1

Seat 1? Dominic Rossookh.

lol dom's obviously a brilliant player, hes in so many pots because his edge is so big and he can play marginal holdings profitably

See my previous post, I read, asked a question, all was completely clear. I liked the deal, staked, would do again for the same sort of player, for the same reason. I don't have to answer to you but only posted this as you seem to think I am some prize donk for not reading the original post correctly. It's my cash I will spend it how I like.

That's the chap, really really impressed with him.  Was kinda sad when he got knocked out.  Thinking about it though, this guy clearly has talent and an edge over most of the players around, but if only he added another gear to his game other than gogogogogogogo.  Players like him amaze me in their abilty to get chips and to soul read sometimes during hands, but take a step back sometimes and maybe play 60% of hands rather than 90% and to his admittance "might get past my usual level 3 exit!"

Cool guy.

vvg, 50% of his talent would do me

you already have 50% of Quereshi's talent. Some people want it all...

The only time i did it i sold 50% at face value too.  I don't remember Flushy telling me to mark it up a bit as he took half of it either!  ;) 

On one other occasion I was kinda press-ganged into playing a big comp in Brighton paid for by a syndicate of players (i think i was on 30%).  While the gesture was much appreciated I didn't feel particularly comfortable with the situation and ended up making a couple of glaringly weak plays as a result.  With my own cash on the line i certainly don't err on the side of caution...!

Personally I don't agree with people asking for full buy-ins to tournaments.  If i were going to stake someone i'd like to think they were risking some of their own cash as well.

Good luck if you can get it though!  :)

not at all, your money your decision and you are probably a lot sharper than me (i did say no disrespect meant to anyone), i personally would happily back chilli but not at those rates.

Some of you have said Chilli made a mistake charging £400 ie £70 over the buy in.

In fact that was ok as it works out at 1.21 , the mistake was selling 100% when she should have just sold 70%. This would have come to £280 and she would add £50 for 30%

If she wanted all the stake she could have sold 5% chunks at £23.57 , selling 14 shares for the £330 , this means she pays no extra but is charging 1.42.

Neither of these ways would have been unreasonable.

Cheers

ACES