blonde poker forum

ok so its the 35k gtd on crypto last night there I am 9th out of around 70 players left ( I think) I have 2300 ish in chips.

i pick up  Qc Qs in mid pos and its folded to me i raise to 2400 (blinds are 400/800 with a little ante) i get one caller and both blinds fold . the flop is As 7s 4s He moves in for 6k i have 20k in chips left and have to call 6k to win a possible 19ish. He clearly has an ace . What do I do ?

Also a friend and I are having a debate as to wether or not pot odds come into tournament play . He says you should always fold if u are certain you are beat but i think that you can be pot commited to call. Views?

Did you check to him?

Or did he limp/call your raise?

I must have checked it to him on the flop (mistake)

I would have re -raised all in representing the flush.  if he made it as far as that then chances are he's not a mug and is capable of laying down the best hand, and you aee drawing to the flush only the  Ks can beat you.

It depends, again on how good a player you think he is. counting up your outs you have 11 outs and a 45% chance of hitting that flush and doubling up, the question is will he risk it, put the pressure back on him.

he moved all in for his remaining 6k when i checked to him. So it was a call or fold situation

I would have called. I would have taken those odds

OK, Lets say it's most likely he has an Ace and no spade

you then have two queens and nine spades to hit

11 outs twice, and you are getting over 3 to 1 to call

If you lose you have 14k, or 14x Big blinds

Many will be worse placed that you


Call, try and win the tournament.

Pot odds must come into your consideration in tournaments, as must the notion of being pot committed (sometimes you raise sufficiently to impy to your foe thast the rest is going in for example)

However I hear quite often "I was pot committed" which actually means..."I made a bad call and that's my excuse"....ie it's over-used.....

Also he may have a pair like JJ, maybe with a spade and has decided that as you've checked it's worth making a play at the pot.

I'd call.

as the only card that beats you is the  Ks and the pot odds are 3 to 1 and you have so many outs its scary, folding is a bad move here, and thats just the math speaking.  If you call this it helps your table image by making good calls people will respect your raises and plays in future, ( mind you chances are they already do at this point anyways).

Call, call Call and if in doubt call.

Thanks folks much apprecited , i did call and he showed  Ah Th a loose call in my opinion but fair play to him for giving me the tough decision when i should have pushed and gave the decision to him.

So Tight lets say you can see you opponents cards and you are a 4-1 dog  to win but you are getting 6-1 from the pot is this an automatic call ? Or do you give more credance to the "when your broke your done" side of things?

Certain call from me. All of your outs (QQ and spades) and more than likely to all be live if he does have the ace, and even so, thats the sort of board i think people are likely to make moves on.

To be honest though, i can't put him on a flush or flush draw really. He was reasonably short before so any kind of big ace (with spade kicker for this example) he would probably move in with. I'd have thought he may have hit a set of 7's or 4's.

Yeah i suppose A10 makes sense too. If I could see his cards at that point though i'd probably still call.

http://extempore.livejournal.com/102173.html

This entry on Paul Phillip's blog shows his views on this.

my opinion Jezza, and only that, is with 14k left if you lose you have more than enough play to not worry about going broke yet...you can raise, you have bluff equity etc

so call taking pot odds into account

your tournament is not on the line if you lose here


p.s On crypto I see the push by Ax on a flushing board with an A a lot, putting the decision back on the other player

p.p.s I would have bet out 4k first to act as the pre flop raiser representing the A anyway, if he comes over the top you then clearly have the odds

p.p.s A 10 doesn't fold to your 4k on Crypto, but he doesn't necessarily have an Ace when you bet 4k does he?

I only ever call using pot odds alone when I am heads up and short stacked.

Its all down to your position at the time of play, if your outs stink and you are getting less than 30% to your draw, but 6 to 1 pot odds, and you are average or there abouts in chips, muck the cards, unless you have a great read on your opponent.

if so and you think the bugger is at it, the re steal.

As Phillips says, Heads up against a moderately stacked player, fire the first bullet...make him decide