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Title: Opening Raise size Post by: Autobetkev on July 07, 2009, 01:25:36 AM Ok, DTD Deepstack. 38 players left, 36 paid.
Blinds 2k/4k/400 Average 80k Absolute maniac limps in 2nd position (stack 150k ish). I am position 4 (8 handed) and have Jh Ahrt. I believe I have a TAG image and the table are aware that the original limper will call, what shoud my opening raise be? My stack is 140k...... Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: maldini32 on July 07, 2009, 01:40:29 AM 14kish sounds about right
Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: dousche on July 07, 2009, 01:43:04 AM Ok, DTD Deepstack. 38 players left, 36 paid. Blinds 2k/4k/400 Average 80k Absolute maniac limps in 2nd position (stack 150k ish). I am position 4 (8 handed) and have Jh Ahrt. I believe I have a TAG image and the table are aware that the original limper will call, what shoud my opening raise be? My stack is 140k...... depends on how good the players to your left are ;) Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: LeKnave on July 07, 2009, 01:45:30 AM Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Horneris on July 07, 2009, 01:50:19 AM 14,400
Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Autobetkev on July 07, 2009, 02:00:24 AM Ok, DTD Deepstack. 38 players left, 36 paid. Blinds 2k/4k/400 Average 80k Absolute maniac limps in 2nd position (stack 150k ish). I am position 4 (8 handed) and have Jh Ahrt. I believe I have a TAG image and the table are aware that the original limper will call, what shoud my opening raise be? My stack is 140k...... depends on how good the players to your left are ;) They were awful!!!! lol Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Royal Flush on July 07, 2009, 02:01:41 AM Yeah i would make this 14k
Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Autobetkev on July 07, 2009, 02:07:16 AM Reasons for 14k, which seems to be the concensus? Be interested to know your views on the hand Mike, I'm sure you are aware of the one I'm talking about.....lol
Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Royal Flush on July 07, 2009, 02:09:45 AM Reasons for 14k, which seems to be the concensus? Be interested to know your views on the hand Mike, I'm sure you are aware of the one I'm talking about.....lol It's 3.5x which is about right, and its so easy for them to just flick in 10k, i know it sounds retarded but people call 10k more than they do 9k or 11k. Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Autobetkev on July 07, 2009, 02:13:33 AM Reasons for 14k, which seems to be the concensus? Be interested to know your views on the hand Mike, I'm sure you are aware of the one I'm talking about.....lol It's 3.5x which is about right, and its so easy for them to just flick in 10k, i know it sounds retarded but people call 10k more than they do 9k or 11k. Does raising to 11k not encourage the BB to call for value, knowing that the maniac will just call? Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Royal Flush on July 07, 2009, 05:20:38 AM Reasons for 14k, which seems to be the concensus? Be interested to know your views on the hand Mike, I'm sure you are aware of the one I'm talking about.....lol It's 3.5x which is about right, and its so easy for them to just flick in 10k, i know it sounds retarded but people call 10k more than they do 9k or 11k. Does raising to 11k not encourage the BB to call for value, knowing that the maniac will just call? Is the BB a complete clown? No-one good 'calls for value' out of the big this shallow. Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: boldie on July 07, 2009, 07:56:25 AM Am I too low when raising 10-12k'ish?
Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: George2Loose on July 07, 2009, 09:14:09 AM Anyone just 3* it here?
Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: StuartHopkin on July 07, 2009, 09:36:27 AM Am I too low when raising 10-12k'ish? Think so with the antes in play. Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: TheChipPrince on July 07, 2009, 10:11:13 AM Reasons for 14k, which seems to be the concensus? Be interested to know your views on the hand Mike, I'm sure you are aware of the one I'm talking about.....lol It's 3.5x which is about right, and its so easy for them to just flick in 10k, i know it sounds retarded but people call 10k more than they do 9k or 11k. Does raising to 11k not encourage the BB to call for value, knowing that the maniac will just call? He means 9k or 11k more, not total, so people will call 14k more than 13k/15k Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Autobetkev on July 07, 2009, 10:20:02 AM Ok, thanks for the input guys. My actual raise was to 11k and the reasons were as follows:-
It's my standard raise when opening at this blind level (I personally like to keep my raises uniform, no criticism of anyone who doesn't). I do, however, increase my initial raise if there has been a limper, to 13k (ish). The entire table knew that I would have to have a hand to raise the fish, and I hoped that keeping it as low as I did screamed of strength not weakness. Jh Ahrt isn't a hand I want to get involved with to a raise from behind. Although I believe that I was stronger than 90% of the limpers range (even though he limped from such early position!), I would still be more comfortable keeping the pot as small as possible, even in position, until I hit and am sure Im ahead. Once I hit, as long as he had any piece of it he was going to pay me to the river, I'm sure 'Douche' shares my opinion on that!! As it turns out, I got one further caller who told me he had AK (button and chip leader), but was wary of my raise, therefore didn't re-raise. The result was a Jc Js 4c flop which sounds great until the turn card was 9c and the river 8h and Mr Maniac turns over 8c 3c following a river value bet. Maybe this last sentance should have been put in another part of the forum, titled 'Shafted again @ DTD'!!!! lol If there is anything more that you can add, I would be very appreciative, always looking for good advice....... Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: gatso on July 07, 2009, 10:26:53 AM Ok, thanks for the input guys. My actual raise was to 11k and the reasons were as follows:- It's my standard raise when opening at this blind level (I personally like to keep my raises uniform, no criticism of anyone who doesn't). I do, however, increase my initial raise if there has been a limper, to 13k (ish). I'm not getting your logic here you keep your raises uniform, if there's been a limper this uniform size is about 13k, if opening it's 11k in this hand there's been a limper so you decide to make it 11k. this is not keeping things uniform confused I am Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Autobetkev on July 07, 2009, 10:45:35 AM Ok, thanks for the input guys. My actual raise was to 11k and the reasons were as follows:- It's my standard raise when opening at this blind level (I personally like to keep my raises uniform, no criticism of anyone who doesn't). I do, however, increase my initial raise if there has been a limper, to 13k (ish). I'm not getting your logic here you keep your raises uniform, if there's been a limper this uniform size is about 13k, if opening it's 11k in this hand there's been a limper so you decide to make it 11k. this is not keeping things uniform confused I am I knew someone would pick up on this.... On this occasion I chose to keep my raise as small as possible, to try to convey to the rest of the table that I had a much stronger hand than I actually did. I believe that even if I had raised to 20k the limper would have called. A round of the button earlier, I had made my usual raise following a limp in the same place, and got re-raised from the chip leader on my right and had to fold, I just decided to change things a little, hence this post. Im trying to find out whether my theory is correct or flawed.... Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: GreekStein on July 07, 2009, 10:59:56 AM Ok, thanks for the input guys. My actual raise was to 11k and the reasons were as follows:- It's my standard raise when opening at this blind level (I personally like to keep my raises uniform, no criticism of anyone who doesn't). I do, however, increase my initial raise if there has been a limper, to 13k (ish). I'm not getting your logic here you keep your raises uniform, if there's been a limper this uniform size is about 13k, if opening it's 11k in this hand there's been a limper so you decide to make it 11k. this is not keeping things uniform confused I am I knew someone would pick up on this.... On this occasion I chose to keep my raise as small as possible, to try to convey to the rest of the table that I had a much stronger hand than I actually did. I believe that even if I had raised to 20k the limper would have called. A round of the button earlier, I had made my usual raise following a limp in the same place, and got re-raised from the chip leader on my right and had to fold, I just decided to change things a little, hence this post. Im trying to find out whether my theory is correct or flawed.... The idea of keeping raise sizes consistent is so players never know when you are weak or strong. It never signifies a certain type of hand. If you deviate from it there's not really any point doing it at all. Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: dousche on July 07, 2009, 02:30:12 PM Ok, thanks for the input guys. My actual raise was to 11k and the reasons were as follows:- It's my standard raise when opening at this blind level (I personally like to keep my raises uniform, no criticism of anyone who doesn't). I do, however, increase my initial raise if there has been a limper, to 13k (ish). The entire table knew that I would have to have a hand to raise the fish, and I hoped that keeping it as low as I did screamed of strength not weakness. Jh Ahrt isn't a hand I want to get involved with to a raise from behind. Although I believe that I was stronger than 90% of the limpers range (even though he limped from such early position!), I would still be more comfortable keeping the pot as small as possible, even in position, until I hit and am sure Im ahead. Once I hit, as long as he had any piece of it he was going to pay me to the river, I'm sure 'Douche' shares my opinion on that!! As it turns out, I got one further caller who told me he had AK (button and chip leader), but was wary of my raise, therefore didn't re-raise. The result was a Jc Js 4c flop which sounds great until the turn card was 9c and the river 8h and Mr Maniac turns over 8c 3c following a river value bet. Maybe this last sentance should have been put in another part of the forum, titled 'Shafted again @ DTD'!!!! lol If there is anything more that you can add, I would be very appreciative, always looking for good advice....... hi kev. i cant remember, did you value bet each street? i remember at the time thinking that this guy would've played any pair or a jack the same as he played the flush. for the others, this guy was the epitome of calling station. since joining our table he'd been limping in pots regardless of position and turning up with almost any two and carrying on with any pair. he was running like a usain bolt though so had built a decent stack. Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: George2Loose on July 07, 2009, 02:44:29 PM I asked Kev to post this hand cos I felt that in general he wasn’t rasing enough pre flop when a limper was in the hand
OK given this station I guess it wouldn’t matter but Kev was making raises to 3* and playing a lot of hands multi way. Surely raising with AJ suited on the button is to try and get the hand heads up and isolate the weak player? Kev has said he’s happy to play these multi handed with the lead. However you’re not going to get the JJ4 too often with AJ are you? Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Royal Flush on July 07, 2009, 02:45:34 PM Kev has said he’s happy to play these multi handed with the lead. However you’re not going to get the JJ4 too often with AJ are you? Obv that sentence is not applicable to Dave Jones or a certain Mr Blatch. Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Autobetkev on July 07, 2009, 02:48:37 PM Ok, thanks for the input guys. My actual raise was to 11k and the reasons were as follows:- It's my standard raise when opening at this blind level (I personally like to keep my raises uniform, no criticism of anyone who doesn't). I do, however, increase my initial raise if there has been a limper, to 13k (ish). The entire table knew that I would have to have a hand to raise the fish, and I hoped that keeping it as low as I did screamed of strength not weakness. Jh Ahrt isn't a hand I want to get involved with to a raise from behind. Although I believe that I was stronger than 90% of the limpers range (even though he limped from such early position!), I would still be more comfortable keeping the pot as small as possible, even in position, until I hit and am sure Im ahead. Once I hit, as long as he had any piece of it he was going to pay me to the river, I'm sure 'Douche' shares my opinion on that!! As it turns out, I got one further caller who told me he had AK (button and chip leader), but was wary of my raise, therefore didn't re-raise. The result was a Jc Js 4c flop which sounds great until the turn card was 9c and the river 8h and Mr Maniac turns over 8c 3c following a river value bet. Maybe this last sentance should have been put in another part of the forum, titled 'Shafted again @ DTD'!!!! lol If there is anything more that you can add, I would be very appreciative, always looking for good advice....... hi kev. i cant remember, did you value bet each street? i remember at the time thinking that this guy would've played any pair or a jack the same as he played the flush. for the others, this guy was the epitome of calling station. since joining our table he'd been limping in pots regardless of position and turning up with almost any two and carrying on with any pair. he was running like a usain bolt though so had built a decent stack. Yes mate, I bet 15k on the flop, 20k on the turn and 20k on the river. Not my usual bet sizing, but that in hindsight saved me from going broke!!!! Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Autobetkev on July 07, 2009, 02:53:42 PM I asked Kev to post this hand cos I felt that in general he wasn’t rasing enough pre flop when a limper was in the hand OK given this station I guess it wouldn’t matter but Kev was making raises to 3* and playing a lot of hands multi way. Surely raising with AJ suited on the button is to try and get the hand heads up and isolate the weak player? Kev has said he’s happy to play these multi handed with the lead. However you’re not going to get the JJ4 too often with AJ are you? I think everyone at the table was playing this guy slightly differently to the way they would have played normally. Had it been a limp from another player I would have raised to 13k, or flatted. Btw I was in 4th position not the button and had I got stiff resistance behind me, I have an easy fold as no-one would raise me light there.... Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: EvilPie on July 07, 2009, 02:59:05 PM I asked Kev to post this hand cos I felt that in general he wasn’t rasing enough pre flop when a limper was in the hand OK given this station I guess it wouldn’t matter but Kev was making raises to 3* and playing a lot of hands multi way. Surely raising with AJ suited on the button is to try and get the hand heads up and isolate the weak player? Kev has said he’s happy to play these multi handed with the lead. However you’re not going to get the JJ4 too often with AJ are you? I think everyone at the table was playing this guy slightly differently to the way they would have played normally. Had it been a limp from another player I would have raised to 13k, or flatted. Btw I was in 4th position not the button and had I got stiff resistance behind me, I have an easy fold as no-one would raise me light there.... Why not? Looks like a good spot for a shove from a 40k ish stack with plenty of FE and 20k+ in the middle. Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Autobetkev on July 07, 2009, 03:56:14 PM I asked Kev to post this hand cos I felt that in general he wasn’t rasing enough pre flop when a limper was in the hand OK given this station I guess it wouldn’t matter but Kev was making raises to 3* and playing a lot of hands multi way. Surely raising with AJ suited on the button is to try and get the hand heads up and isolate the weak player? Kev has said he’s happy to play these multi handed with the lead. However you’re not going to get the JJ4 too often with AJ are you? I think everyone at the table was playing this guy slightly differently to the way they would have played normally. Had it been a limp from another player I would have raised to 13k, or flatted. Btw I was in 4th position not the button and had I got stiff resistance behind me, I have an easy fold as no-one would raise me light there.... Why not? Looks like a good spot for a shove from a 40k ish stack with plenty of FE and 20k+ in the middle. That wasn't going to happen! Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: EvilPie on July 07, 2009, 04:04:23 PM I asked Kev to post this hand cos I felt that in general he wasn’t rasing enough pre flop when a limper was in the hand OK given this station I guess it wouldn’t matter but Kev was making raises to 3* and playing a lot of hands multi way. Surely raising with AJ suited on the button is to try and get the hand heads up and isolate the weak player? Kev has said he’s happy to play these multi handed with the lead. However you’re not going to get the JJ4 too often with AJ are you? I think everyone at the table was playing this guy slightly differently to the way they would have played normally. Had it been a limp from another player I would have raised to 13k, or flatted. Btw I was in 4th position not the button and had I got stiff resistance behind me, I have an easy fold as no-one would raise me light there.... Why not? Looks like a good spot for a shove from a 40k ish stack with plenty of FE and 20k+ in the middle. That wasn't going to happen! So if someone 3 bets you're passing because they must have you beat. If that's the case then I think 11k is about perfect. No point putting more in if you've got to pass to a reraise. Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: LuckyLloyd on July 07, 2009, 04:24:20 PM At this blind level my standard open in an unopened pot would be 10k. In this case, we are isolating a weak player. He won't want to fold, even if you make it 16k (people who open limp, love limp calling). As such, I'd just make it 12k. Whether it be 12 or 14k shouldn't affect the range of hands the players to your left enter the pot with. And if the limper is calling anyway, I think it is prudent to achieve what we want to achieve for the cheapest price possible.
Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Ironside on July 07, 2009, 04:59:40 PM maybe i am confused but the reason you raise a pot is to get your oppo making mistakes
by making it 14k as suggested (by better players than me) the guy who calls isnt making a mistake he is getting 11-4 for the call meaning unless you have an overpair he is getting odds to call as you know you havent an over pair you want to make him pay to hit so a pot size bet to 22k would of been my bet but then again the players advocating 14k are IMHO better than me and have better results than me so who am i to argue Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: George2Loose on July 07, 2009, 05:04:21 PM At this blind level my standard open in an unopened pot would be 10k. In this case, we are isolating a weak player. He won't want to fold, even if you make it 16k (people who open limp, love limp calling). As such, I'd just make it 12k. Whether it be 12 or 14k shouldn't affect the range of hands the players to your left enter the pot with. And if the limper is calling anyway, I think it is prudent to achieve what we want to achieve for the cheapest price possible. Lloyd I would tend to agree if we're confident of getting heads up but everytime Kev was telling me about hands he was playing they were multi way cos he wasn't getting his bet sizing right. Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: George2Loose on July 07, 2009, 05:05:09 PM Kev has said he’s happy to play these multi handed with the lead. However you’re not going to get the JJ4 too often with AJ are you? Obv that sentence is not applicable to Dave Jones or a certain Mr Blatch. If Neil was in the hand the river would have been an ace Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: GreekStein on July 07, 2009, 05:19:51 PM At this blind level my standard open in an unopened pot would be 10k. In this case, we are isolating a weak player. He won't want to fold, even if you make it 16k (people who open limp, love limp calling). As such, I'd just make it 12k. Whether it be 12 or 14k shouldn't affect the range of hands the players to your left enter the pot with. And if the limper is calling anyway, I think it is prudent to achieve what we want to achieve for the cheapest price possible. Lloyd I would tend to agree if we're confident of getting heads up but everytime Kev was telling me about hands he was playing they were multi way cos he wasn't getting his bet sizing right. Sometimes you just get tables where everyone just calls calls calls and once one calls it sets everyone else off. The last time I played at DTD I had Gurpreet on my left flatting pretty much every time I opened a pot and it set everyone off flatting so I was opening small until the mfckin C came and 3 bet every open I made for 30 mins. It was sure was fun. Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Autobetkev on July 07, 2009, 05:35:23 PM At this blind level my standard open in an unopened pot would be 10k. In this case, we are isolating a weak player. He won't want to fold, even if you make it 16k (people who open limp, love limp calling). As such, I'd just make it 12k. Whether it be 12 or 14k shouldn't affect the range of hands the players to your left enter the pot with. And if the limper is calling anyway, I think it is prudent to achieve what we want to achieve for the cheapest price possible. Lloyd I would tend to agree if we're confident of getting heads up but everytime Kev was telling me about hands he was playing they were multi way cos he wasn't getting his bet sizing right. Not really true George, this was the only hand I spoke to you about on day 2. Day 1 was the QQ hand, but a totally different situation. Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: George2Loose on July 07, 2009, 05:42:11 PM At this blind level my standard open in an unopened pot would be 10k. In this case, we are isolating a weak player. He won't want to fold, even if you make it 16k (people who open limp, love limp calling). As such, I'd just make it 12k. Whether it be 12 or 14k shouldn't affect the range of hands the players to your left enter the pot with. And if the limper is calling anyway, I think it is prudent to achieve what we want to achieve for the cheapest price possible. Lloyd I would tend to agree if we're confident of getting heads up but everytime Kev was telling me about hands he was playing they were multi way cos he wasn't getting his bet sizing right. Not really true George, this was the only hand I spoke to you about on day 2. Day 1 was the QQ hand, but a totally different situation. I recall you talking to me about another hand where u bluffed on the turn with K high? I'm sure someone limped for 3k and u made it 8500 pre which picked up 3 more callers? Again inflating the pot so you're comitting more of your stack post flop (admittedly your play worked) I think even the sickest flop players would struggle to play hands in position multi way considering pot>>>stack size. In summary if you pick up some limpers you have to make them pay more imo. Otherwise position or not- your inflating the pot unnecssarily. I'd rather limp with AJ suited then make it 9k from the button if I'm going to pick up 3 callers either way. In the AJ hand you may have lost even less. Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Autobetkev on July 07, 2009, 05:43:36 PM maybe i am confused but the reason you raise a pot is to get your oppo making mistakes by making it 14k as suggested (by better players than me) the guy who calls isnt making a mistake he is getting 11-4 for the call meaning unless you have an overpair he is getting odds to call as you know you havent an over pair you want to make him pay to hit so a pot size bet to 22k would of been my bet but then again the players advocating 14k are IMHO better than me and have better results than me so who am i to argue Would you make that raise if you had AA or KK? Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Autobetkev on July 07, 2009, 05:49:04 PM At this blind level my standard open in an unopened pot would be 10k. In this case, we are isolating a weak player. He won't want to fold, even if you make it 16k (people who open limp, love limp calling). As such, I'd just make it 12k. Whether it be 12 or 14k shouldn't affect the range of hands the players to your left enter the pot with. And if the limper is calling anyway, I think it is prudent to achieve what we want to achieve for the cheapest price possible. Lloyd I would tend to agree if we're confident of getting heads up but everytime Kev was telling me about hands he was playing they were multi way cos he wasn't getting his bet sizing right. Not really true George, this was the only hand I spoke to you about on day 2. Day 1 was the QQ hand, but a totally different situation. I recall you talking to me about another hand where u bluffed on the turn with K high? I'm sure someone limped for 3k and u made it 8500 pre which picked up 3 more callers? Again inflating the pot so you're comitting more of your stack post flop (admittedly your play worked) I think even the sickest flop players would struggle to play hands in position multi way considering pot>>>stack size. In summary if you pick up some limpers you have to make them pay more imo. Otherwise position or not- your inflating the pot unnecssarily. I'd rather limp with AJ suited then make it 9k from the button if I'm going to pick up 3 callers either way. In the AJ hand you may have lost even less. In that hand, after 2 limpers at 1.5k/3k/300 I raised my button to 13k (if memory serves me right) with Q7 then checked to me on a K high flop I bet 20k and only got the maniac to call, and bet him off it on the turn. Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: George2Loose on July 07, 2009, 05:50:31 PM At this blind level my standard open in an unopened pot would be 10k. In this case, we are isolating a weak player. He won't want to fold, even if you make it 16k (people who open limp, love limp calling). As such, I'd just make it 12k. Whether it be 12 or 14k shouldn't affect the range of hands the players to your left enter the pot with. And if the limper is calling anyway, I think it is prudent to achieve what we want to achieve for the cheapest price possible. Lloyd I would tend to agree if we're confident of getting heads up but everytime Kev was telling me about hands he was playing they were multi way cos he wasn't getting his bet sizing right. Not really true George, this was the only hand I spoke to you about on day 2. Day 1 was the QQ hand, but a totally different situation. I recall you talking to me about another hand where u bluffed on the turn with K high? I'm sure someone limped for 3k and u made it 8500 pre which picked up 3 more callers? Again inflating the pot so you're comitting more of your stack post flop (admittedly your play worked) I think even the sickest flop players would struggle to play hands in position multi way considering pot>>>stack size. In summary if you pick up some limpers you have to make them pay more imo. Otherwise position or not- your inflating the pot unnecssarily. I'd rather limp with AJ suited then make it 9k from the button if I'm going to pick up 3 callers either way. In the AJ hand you may have lost even less. In that hand, after 2 limpers at 1.5k/3k/300 I raised my button to 13k (if memory serves me right) with Q7 then checked to me on a K high flop I bet 20k and only got the maniac to call, and bet him off it on the turn. nope you didn't make it 13k- you made it much less cos I remember commenting on the fact you were again playing a multi way pot- inflating it unnecessarily with a marginal hand Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: iveysda on July 07, 2009, 05:55:11 PM HI KEV I THINK UR BET WAS CORRECT AS I WAS IN THE POT WITH U , U HAD THE 2 CHIP LEADERS TO UR LEFT AND U COULDV'E BEEN RE-RAISED AND HAD TO OF FOLDED
Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: iveysda on July 07, 2009, 05:58:18 PM U MADE THE BET 11000 IWAS IN FOR 4000 AND WITH A/K I FLAT CALLED THINKING U HAD A BIG PAIR
Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Autobetkev on July 07, 2009, 06:08:20 PM U MADE THE BET 11000 IWAS IN FOR 4000 AND WITH A/K I FLAT CALLED THINKING U HAD A BIG PAIR So my theory that a smaller raise stunk of strength was correct? 1 question, had I made a raise to 14k would you have re-raised me from the button? Thanks for the input..... Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: iveysda on July 07, 2009, 06:15:20 PM I HAD U ON A BIG PAIR TRYING TO TRAP THE FISH I THOT U WERE STRONG WI THAT BET LOOKING FOR ACTION I WOULDV'E GAVE U IT IF THERE WAS AN ACE ON THE FLOP , WHAT THE OTHER GUYS DIDN'T NO WAS U HAD ME AND DOUCHE ON UR LEFT (CHIP LEADERS) SO IT WAS WELL DISQUISED
Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: iveysda on July 07, 2009, 06:18:13 PM NO I WOULDN'T HAVE RE-RAISED U IF U MADE IT 14K AS I THOT U HAD QQ
Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Autobetkev on July 07, 2009, 06:22:43 PM NO I WOULDN'T HAVE RE-RAISED U IF U MADE IT 14K AS I THOT U HAD QQ So it wasn't my bet size that made you think I had QQ? Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: iveysda on July 07, 2009, 06:30:38 PM WELL BLINDS WERE 4K UR USUAL BETTING PATTERN WAS 10K U HAD THE FISH LIMPING WI ANY TWO AS U WELL KNOW AND U HAD INCREASED UR BET BY 1K WHICH GOT ME WONDERING IF U HAD DONE THAT BECAUSE FISH LIMPED OR U KNEW HE WOULD CALL ANY RAISE U MADE , BECAUSE U HAD DONE THIS WI THE 2 CHIP LEADERS TO GO THRU I THOT U WERE STRONG.
Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: iveysda on July 07, 2009, 06:48:10 PM I WASN'T ON THE BUTTON I WAS I THE BB U WERE ON THE BUTTON
Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: gatso on July 07, 2009, 06:53:18 PM :hello:
(http://stalkingelmo.net/random/funny_pics/CapsLock.jpg) Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: LOJ on July 07, 2009, 07:00:38 PM :hello: (http://stalkingelmo.net/random/funny_pics/CapsLock.jpg) PMSL ;tightend; Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: ChipRich on July 07, 2009, 07:01:38 PM :hello: (http://stalkingelmo.net/random/funny_pics/CapsLock.jpg) thank fk for that, was so tilted. Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Autobetkev on July 07, 2009, 07:12:47 PM :hello: (http://stalkingelmo.net/random/funny_pics/CapsLock.jpg) thank fk for that, was so tilted. Lol... Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: pokerfan on July 07, 2009, 07:27:45 PM :hello: (http://stalkingelmo.net/random/funny_pics/CapsLock.jpg) thank fk for that, was so tilted. Lol... Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Royal Flush on July 07, 2009, 08:04:56 PM I am not sure what was more tilting, the caps or the substance of the sentences. The snap read of QQ was my fav part.
Ironside m8, the hand doesn't end pre, he is going to be oop with a bad hand against an unknown hand and will put chips in bad, a lot. Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: maldini32 on July 07, 2009, 09:38:20 PM :hello: (http://stalkingelmo.net/random/funny_pics/CapsLock.jpg) class Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: dousche on July 07, 2009, 11:09:23 PM i wish i could remember the context of the hand better, there must be a reason i didnt 3-bet you - had i 3-bet you in a similar spot recently? seeing the hand in a vacuum id go 14k every time, especially if ur in 4th position (which i think you are cos i think i remember thinking about the guy limping really early with 8c 3c). 14k should do as good a job as you need to isolate, as long as you go 14k with all your hands.
Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: StuartHopkin on July 07, 2009, 11:48:08 PM Is Barry Neville multi-accounting?
Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Ironside on July 08, 2009, 01:56:17 AM I am not sure what was more tilting, the caps or the substance of the sentences. The snap read of QQ was my fav part. Ironside m8, the hand doesn't end pre, he is going to be oop with a bad hand against an unknown hand and will put chips in bad, a lot. surely thats a reason to make it a bet that wont be called if he gets this HU he will be in postion but by making this so cheap (compared to the pot) you enourage players in LP in with suited connector and small pairs putting you in a horrible postion unless you flop a monster think i need to put more thought into this lets say the terrible player hadnt entered the pot in fact it was an ophaned pot would be to a total of around the 15-18k mark what would be your standard raise? Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Royal Flush on July 08, 2009, 02:55:29 AM I am not sure what was more tilting, the caps or the substance of the sentences. The snap read of QQ was my fav part. Ironside m8, the hand doesn't end pre, he is going to be oop with a bad hand against an unknown hand and will put chips in bad, a lot. surely thats a reason to make it a bet that wont be called if he gets this HU he will be in postion but by making this so cheap (compared to the pot) you enourage players in LP in with suited connector and small pairs putting you in a horrible postion unless you flop a monster think i need to put more thought into this lets say the terrible player hadnt entered the pot in fact it was an ophaned pot would be to a total of around the 15-18k mark what would be your standard raise? 9-10k People can try calling me with SC's and see what happens, lol Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Karabiner on July 08, 2009, 10:57:33 AM Okay so who's hijacked Iron's keyboard ?
Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: vinni on July 08, 2009, 01:47:12 PM Is Barry Neville multi-accounting? ffs sussed me . Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Ironside on July 09, 2009, 02:25:41 AM ok i try to bet the same amount every time which is normally around the pot
i have 3 reasons to bet/raise 1) build the pot when i have a big hand 2) bluff 3) buy the pot when i have a maringal hand a bet that can get better hands and other marginal hands to fold but if you get reraise you know your in trouble and can get away (some people call it an information bet but i prefer it a raise to take the pot bet) i cant see the betting amount here fitting any of the catogroies apart from maybe the first but the Aj doesnt meet the big hand cat. pus i dont want to let people get a read off me by changing my bets dependant on what i want them to do 1.5x the big blind bet will get you called by better and worse hands and encourage people in better postion with marginal hands into the pot aswell leaving you with a marginal hand in a big pot oop. i am willing to learn here so if someone can explain to me why we are encouraging all the action then i am willing to listen i see this sort of bet alot and then people going crazy when there hand gets out flopped (which i know the people posting in this thread dont do) but the amount of people that spit feathers when they get called pre by JTs or 9Ts then find them selfs losing all there chips when they hit a flop when someone who wouldnt of been in with a decent preflop bet flops a monster or monster draw obviously i am not saying the people that think 14k is the correct size here is wrong (there results are much better than mine) i am just needing a little info on why weak betting is now the new agressive bet Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: ChipRich on July 09, 2009, 02:55:44 AM Ironside, blinds are 2k/4k and a terrible fish has limped and we have AJsooooooted, its a big hand.
We are in position and are always making it around 14k here, or should be. Why? Because the limpers tez and in the longrun we're going to make so much more playing it like this vs him. Obviously if you get 3 bet, or someone calls, you have a different decision. But whats likely to happen most of the time is it'l be folded back to the limper who will either fold but more than likely call. Then we have the 'fish' in the pot OOP, who has a very marginal hand most of the time(in this case 83c) and we are more than likely to win the pot on the flop or later in the hand. If you always make it 14k here with whatever hand your entering the pot with, its always just going to be so much more profitable. To some people making it 14k here, looks very strong. For example the guy behind who flatted the button was it? Becasue he thought this guy had QQ. If you always make it the same amount, people are never going to get a read on what range of hands you are doing this with. Also by always making it 14k with whatever your entering the pot with rather than betting pot like you said, if you have to raise/fold, your going to be saving money/chips. Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: Ironside on July 09, 2009, 03:39:39 AM ty rich
do you vary bets dependant on position then? ie if you were in sb this hand would you increase the bet to take it down and get the hassle free 10% stack increase? Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: ChipRich on July 09, 2009, 01:47:32 PM ty rich do you vary bets dependant on position then? ie if you were in sb this hand would you increase the bet to take it down and get the hassle free 10% stack increase? If your in the SB with this hand and its folded around uv got 1 of 2 options. A) just complete and not get in a big pot OOP. B) If raising, yes make it more than 14k as your OOP and will be for the rest of the hand. Title: Re: Opening Raise size Post by: dousche on July 09, 2009, 05:56:50 PM the plan is to isolate the limper. he's liable to call with anything so 14k>11k as he's making a bigger mistake. also, if he makes it 11k he's more likely to have other players calling in position (they know as well as you do that this guy will call with any two so they should be calling pretty wide). the best scenario is to get the hand heads up, in position with as much (within reason) as possible in the middle and 14k is the best way to achieve this
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