blonde poker forum

At DtD for 50/50.

Played solid poker for 4 levels n without a showdown build to 18k(from 10k) but then get moved tables, wtf!

Blinds 200/400 a25

Im BB(playing 18000), folds to button(playing 21000) who makes it 1100(only been at this table 15-20mins he played NO hands in this time), sb folds.

I look down at  7h 8h. Whats YOUR line here?

Sick brag post.

You won! Who cares?

Results orientated FTW

fold / 3bet to 3075

[ ] peel

to about 4 of the players in the field i fold. Everyone else I peel.

I disagree with Brunny!

I peel here.

We have a nice hand. 3 betting sucks cos if we get called then we're in trouble oop in an inflated pot. If we get raised then we have to fold and spew $$$. Folding seems a tad weak tho I won't criticise it oop heads up. For me though we have enough chips to see a flop and play from there.

Peeling in this kinda spot is so underrated in live poker.

Why would you 3bet here? And to how much?

Even in this standard of field?  I prefer the peel with stack sizes and "average" player in this field

OOP, HU, vs a complete unknown, holding 8 high, in a raised pot, means abs nothing is going in your favour in this spot. People who want to peel here overrate themelves imo.   

Against anyone who is fairly competent, you would lose the pot so many times here by just peeling. So, I prefer a 3bet or fold.

However, if you have absolutely no idea how the villain is playing, and you just can't get let go of 78 suited, I don't mind a peel some of the time.

You're an absolute dousche.

And you are a child.

peel

The 50 50 is quite a fast structure and its quite early on.

you have a good hand and will always know where you are at in the hand

So i decided to 3-bet, made it 2850 n he tanked n reached for 5x1000chip.

At this point im thinking wot an idiot! Just spewed nearly 3k when i shudve peeled.

But to my amazment he says "call", lol.

Im pretty sure i peel next time in this spot.

The flop was pretty sik tho-  6h 5s 2h, at this point  i creamed my ck's!

Bet 3150 n he flipped Ad Qs n said "i shudve 4bet, lol

Lol, didn't the hand just go exactly as you wanted?

You only decided you should have peeled, when he showed intentions of 4 betting. Results orientated thinking there.

Played it fine imo.

Lol, is this a compliment? Compared to all the old jokes Cos gets.....

He got lots of chips in when he was an underdog to win the hand, was v lucky to flop the world, and got no chips in when he was favourite to win the hand. Did he play it fine?

Well in that case, we should all perhaps wait for kings and aces then? In fact, even if we have kings we could be a massive underdog, so we should perhaps fold them too?

He didn't get loads of chips in the pot as a underdog, to create a big pot. He got them in, to try and pick up the pot there and then. If he fails, then he is still able to represent a huge deal on the flop, regardless of if we hit or not.

Yes, he was v lucky to flop the world, and unfortunately he wasn't able to get any more chips from the villain. However, there are probably a lot of overpairs in the villain's range, where he may just jam to a c-bet. In that case, we can snap.

To put the hand like you just put it, means we should never play with hands like 78 suited, JQ suited etc, because we are more than likely to be underdogs.

How is he an underdog though? Once he's 3-bet and gets called he's a favourite to win the hand. The other guy pretty much HAS to flop an ace or queen to continue. All other scenarios hero prob wins pot.

P.s posted your graphs yet?

If you genuinely do think there are a lot of overpairs in villain's range why would you 3-bet pre to try and pick up the pot? How could you hope to take the pot down with your bluff pre if you think villain has a good pair? Then you lead out when you flop the effective nuts and say yeah cos the flop has come low he could deffo have this over pair, the over pair you tried to bluff off the pot pre. Anyway if villain has an overpair he will bet this flop when you check. He will also bet with his unpaired hands rather than fold them when you check.

How does hero know that during the hand? He knows he's an underdog to villain's range, and that's all he knows. It's kinda easy to know you can bluff successfully when you know villain's hand.

Mantis, come on man. You can't try and criticise our first action, after using information gained from after we have acted. (Lol sounds more complicated then it is) I will however try and illustrate my point below, and hopefully you can understand why your response was kind of trivial.

When the villain opens the pot, I don't automatically put him on an overpair to the cards we are holding.

When we have 3 bet, and the villain starts contemplating between a 4 bet and a call, then yes, I start including overpairs in his range as a likely hand.

I can't put him on an overpair simply from his open, although it is obviously in his range, along with plenty of other rubbish/genuine hands.

So, to say that we shouldn't 3 bet if we think there are a lot overpairs in the villain's range is silly. There are also plenty of hands in the villain's opening range which may fold to our 3 bet, and give us an opportunity to pick up the pot.


As for the above, yes I agree the villain is likely to bet this flop when I check. However, I prefer leading here instead of checking, since I'd try and get the money in now, as there will be a lot of turn cards that may kill our action, if the villain decides to check back the flop/play it tricky.

His hand is likely to play very well against any range as the hand flops well.

He's a favourite to win the hand once he's 3-bet as villain is only defending/4-betting with the very top of his range. AQ is prob a fold pre.

It's also kinda easy to know maybe a 3-bet isn't the best move when we know villain has Ace-Queen and is going to defend.

we still have 8 high here?
I know we have a huge hand potentialy. We dont all run like blatch and hit our 1000000 outs
but at this point we have 8 high.

I would lead out 100% of the time and snap a shove.

i doubt his not pair hands will bet when u check to him on this board either
he could think he has showdown value or he thinks his hand is good and can pot control when checked to.
people didnt play very tricky in this comp

Dude, my criticism of our first action is due to all the factors I mentioned in my first post. To amplify that first post...you say villain has plenty of rubbish hands in his range and this is why a 3bet is good. Can you explain how you know that? You say villain will fold a lot of his range to our 3bet? How do you know he will? You say cos villain picks up a stack of chips he is contemplating 4betting and this tightens his range. But often when players pick up a stack of chips threateningly it can signify weakness. Can you tell me how you know villain picking up chips is a sign of strength?

Basically you are just guessing at stuff. Hence my post criticising the line...3bet cos villain is weak, oh wait, lead cos villain is strong. It's ok to guess at stuff but I don't think it makes a convincing argument to say 3betting a complete unknown oop with a weak hand, no image, less chips, and an intention to bluff is the best of lines for this hand in a poker tournament.

I would call cos they're suited

Some sense at last.

LOL he's terrabad.

What does Mantis actually mean? I know that Karl Marenhoulz (sorry for spelling) gets called Mantis from the hitsquad, this isn't his acct no? I know there was some banter with lots of different KarlM's and stuff.

No Karl is Dryem on blonde, though it would be epic if he revealed that Mantis was his gimmick account.

Would be an epic level.

And on Sunday god spoke to the people, from that day on Mantis would never trouble the people of blondepoker again.

fwiw i think hes wrong a lot, but his input sometimes, esp in a live spot, is occasionally invaluable. the personal shit on pha makes the very few ppl that beat the game consistently bugger off after a period of time, bit sad really, we could still have bonified etc if ppl werent so destructive.

also, pre is a fold unless u have a solid read on oppo, which is impossible given its a new tarb.

yo reread this thread - still feel peeling is pretty bad here tbh - definitely a leak - how wide are ppl peeling here if they are with  7h 8h??

Having said that I do flick it in here sometimes reasonably frequently in LIVE mtts, but obv v player dependent.

Gotta call PaulHo up on "Always know where you are in the hand" comment - sorry but for example the board comes  8c to  7d high rainbow - is the plan to check call three streets here? - because surely anybody decent is gonna get three full streets of value here with a better hand.

Having said that Paul peeled a raise pre with  Kc 6d after I opened the c/o at the DTD £300 f/o last month and won a decent pot off me, so maybe I do not fully understand live unlimited holdem.
p.s. [ x ] Schooled Brunskill.

Surely 3 betting merges ranges here? Plus the idea of playing an inflated pot oop is fair, but your far more likely to win a pot you have 3 bet pre than one that has gone open then you call from the bb. There are abs loads of boards that the original raiser will simply fold on the flop.


Off the three options I would fold, most of the time and prefer 3 bet to circa 3k than calling.

we are 45 bigs effective,

I really think that c/c 2/3 streets and not being good is so bad. Especially if the oppo is decent and has a hand that he is setting up a river shove with can cost us our tournament. Just let it go imo.



Fold >>>>>>>>>>>>>>  3bet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>call imo

I think we also have to consider the structure of the tournament here.

Blinds are currently 200/400-25. In about an hours time they'll be 600/1200-100. There's also about 200 players left.

So whilst this spot probably isn't optimal I do think this is a hand we can play to try and get a stack going.

In a deepstack game I can understand a fold, but in this comp I think we need to be taking some chances.

I take it you are the guy from leeds.
I called the raise as i think you was raising with a wide range and you was pretty annoyed about how things were going during the tourney.
I was gonna do a stop and go or delayed stop and go but my hand had some show down value hitting 2nd pair on the flop. The ace was abit of a concern so i just check called. turn was a blank so it went check check. the river was the worse card for you an Ace. This made me pretty confident i had the best hand.
 was gonna check call as i dont think you can call with much of your range if i bet out because you checked the turn.


even you said it was the worst card for you to barrel yet you still barreled on the river.


As to the check call 3 streets with 87 of hearts. Can we not lead out on the turn or flop and fold to a raise?  I think its a pretty big tell when ppl reraise in live tourneys the amount of time they take, amount they raise.

wp brunny

[   ] so glad i bought 10% in dr brunskill

Well I didn't know that when we play pokerz we should know exactly how our opponent is going to respond to our action. Are you telling me you only 3 bet a weak hand if you're 100% sure you're opponent is going to fold? I, for one, know that everything doesn't always go your way, but yet you should still try your best, within reason, to win the hand in question.

As for the picking up chips, the original poster implied in a later post that once villain had the chips in his hand, the hero thought he should have just flat called because villain was contemplating the 4 bet. As I wasn't there at the table, I can only go with the information supplied by the original poster, and in this case it is implied that the villain was thinking about a 4 bet, but to the hero's amazement he just called. That's why I said, the hero shoulnd't think he should just peel because villain is contemplating a 4 bet, that's results orientated thinking.

As for the rest of your post, you're basically just saying I shouldn't be guessing, because we have no reads, we're out OOP, etc. This is fair enough, but in a tourney when the structure is as shallow as it is here, I don't mind taking initiative instead of waiting around for reads. I also mentioned, I don't mind a fold either for the very same reasons you have mentioned, and a 3 bet is equally as good, for me.

3-bet/fold >>>>> Call

Theres too much hate in this thread imo ; everyone is different in poker, everyone has different opinions the good thing about PHA is no-one is always right theres always multiple answers/theories for hands. Come on guys we can't just flame someone because we disagree with their opinion... can't we all just get along :) <3

If Blonde had a 'like' button, I'd use it now.

Shut up facebook user nagri!


rotflmfao


Basically what your saying in your long post is you sometimes run into the top of their range, is it?

]

It's Nagi... and facebook is the one!

Yeah, sometimes... :D But we can also just flop the world like we did... wiiiii!!

I just saw fb and saw I had spelt it wrong and came on and you've beaten me to edit it by replying so quick. dam.



Sorry what is this you speak of?


Flopping the world? does not compute

surely this is a pretty standard line for A8-AJ in this spot - bet flop, check back turn, bet river - tbf i was pretty sure he was passing a six on the river or I wouldn't have barreled.... but its okay to judge me on this one hand of holdem lol, but still feel calling oop here is optimal???????

I think I will always 3 streets of value on a a26x board with all my aces in lp

Calling with K6 here is retarded, spewy and just plain bad

You don't need to know about flopping the world, as you are a firm believer that poker is a skill game!

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpYeekQkAdc

Like I said before he seemed pretty annoyed so I thought I would stop and go him
Therefore you don't need a hand to do such a move

Maybe I just play bad

[ ] fold frequently to stop and gos

• had k10 green in the c/o

You was folding to alot when on my table. when getting lead into and reraised.

[ ] big sample size - donk leading flops is thee mother of all leaks imo.....

[ ] donk with the mother of all leaks

Lol. [X] Like

Play the tune James and see if you still feel the same afterwards. Where is the love? ;)

lol Doctor Keys, you're the unlucky next GreekStein/Rookie etc. You just steam into everyone!

James "I hate the world" Keys. Quietest, calmest guy in real life... yet get him on a poker forum and he wants everyone dead lol.

 rotflmfao

Pls keep posting  ;tightend;

poker is pretty difficult imo.  why make it even tougher for yourself by calling with marginal hands oop. 3ball or fold imo, flop is obv bet/call

also A+ future table image post by op :)


*edit if the opener is a super fish (like brunny (sorry brunny <3)) and going to make massive postflop mistakes i dont mind a peel with some marginal hands - 78s is still pretty close tho.  Peeling k6 is always going to be spew even v brunny and stop n gos just dont work anymore cos they are obvious what you are doing so ppl just call with almost everything - i sometimes even call with jt etc cos im a spiteful fk

Poker sure is difficult for you!

Atleast you agree with me... wiiii!!!

1st time ive read this thread since 2nd post n impressed with the feedback, thx guys.

Pre flop i aint seen my cards untill SB folds n i look down at 7h 8h(massive, bearing in mind every1 but button  folded. imo!)

Now a bit more info, he's table cl, im 2nd. So when i 3-bet its for table captain, not the pot (although i wouldnt of done this with 'any' hand) but when i see him count the 5k on top i 4ght i cant call that and maybe  shudve called, has it happened he made a real thumble with his chips and gave me a huge tell so im defo betting the flop(obv i flop the world but this had no bearing on my bet, Should i ever check here?), im sure this looks like a c-bet to many players but this one just wasnt competent enough, hence the thumble pre.

Im sure 80% of DtD players 4-bet pre with the hand he folded.

FYP

In this spot i would do a call pre or 'elect to peel' if I was going into writing about it post the event - and then do a CRAI on the flop.

Then I'd do a glass of wine to celebrate

Also, 55% of the time I'd just do a fold pre

All obv really

I am a station so i would peel pre.

peeling is so good.

So is that sorted then, fold/call/re-raise - all valid options pre?

Easy game innit?

I think I very rarely ever 4-bet with AQ in villain's spot.

LOL this is level of the millenia surely??? You 3 bet the fuck out of everyone and suddenly decide to peel 87 red against a button raise.

Nice try!

If you never 3 bet light from the bb to a button open, you wont go far wrong.

Calling pre with a postflop plan is fine, anyone that says it isnt is simply wrong.

Just don't like 3b OOP as a general rule, its pretty meh

Just try and be strong when moderate thinking opponents assume you are light and visa versa.

Great thread