blonde poker forum

A bit of background - M1ster has been raising almost every pot to 6, I decided just to call with JJ as he had been very aggressive on flops and I'm comfortable playing flops with him.  Tubandzit reraises which I didn't know how much to read into as he had been quite aggressive with M1sters raises when he had a hand up to now and might have read my flat call as weak. Whats your move when he goes all in? 


------HAND 1------
Game #1116392084: Hold'em NL (£1/£2) - 2005/12/18 - 23:38:32 (ET)
Table "AshvilleOld" Seat 6 is the button.
Seat 1: danmoq (£112.52 in chips)
Seat 2: tubandzit (£189.75 in chips)
Seat 3: Muzie (£96.74 in chips)
Seat 4: M1STER (£338.25 in chips)
Seat 5: Boroda (£43.75 in chips)
Seat 6: WChief (£365.61 in chips)
danmoq: posts small blind £1
tubandzit: posts big blind £2
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to WChief [Jh Jd]
Muzie: folds
M1STER: raises to £6
Boroda: folds
WChief: calls £6
danmoq: folds
tubandzit: raises to £25
M1STER: calls £19
WChief: calls £19
----- FLOP ----- [Th 2s 8h]
tubandzit: bets £164.75 and is all-in
M1STER: folds

I would of re raised preflop, probably all in - If he had JJ QQ KK then so be it.

This is the trouble when flat calling a re raise with JJ (or even QQ) when the flop comes low and they bet heavily, have they hit a set? or overpair?

My initial reaction here (if i played it the way you did, which I wouldnt have) would still be to call, I would put him on AK

My intial thought was that the raiser had AK too. On a desperate pot buy. I'd call and hope it's not  Kh Ah.

Ok I'm glad some would have called here as thats what I did, and he turned over KK.  An excellent move by him I think, as he made it look like AK with the overbet, although I bet he's been done in by a set or AA before playing it like this. 

My mistake was not making the initial reraise with JJ.  If I'd reraised to say 16 then KK would have re-re-raised and I would have been able to fold JJ preflop.  As it is, I was left not having a clue where I was.  Im not going to flat call with JJ or QQ any more to a single raise I don't think. 

Fold, you are HOPING he has AK. His range of hands are JJ, QQ, KK, AA and AK/AQh I think. JJ is unlikely as you hold 2 jacks. You are behind to all these hands even the flush draw as with the 2 overs it makes them a 53% favourite. Having said that I play limit cash and by no means do I know much about NL cash games. I play to win small pots by bluffing and try to have a strong hand in the big pots. You have 1 pair and no real prospects with this hand wait for a better spot eg flop a set and let him push all in. I definitely call preflop but you have to know what you are looking to hit.

I'm with JP on this one definite fold for me. I play an awful lot of NL cash online and once you've played it this way preflop i would be saying to myself that i'm only putting another chip in the pot if i flop the jack or they give me a very cheap turn card to hit the jack. I see this massive overbet a lot when they have the goodies and it's a play i have tried to utilise myself. It does get paid of by the non-believers an awful lot of the time. Only the real jackasses in these games make the reraise preflop and then move in on the flop when they don't hit. Assuming this is a player of reasonable standard your best hope is he has the nut flush draw which statistically you aren't even beating.

JP says "hit your set & hope he pushes all-in"......

Ever seen that scenario in a live game JP?.........

what a great post.

(opens another page in notebook......)

He don't play for chicken feed (maggot level) either.

as i was reading your original post i felt you were behind in the hand and i thought i would fold.

you say you thought he had AK because of his over bet. i think he was just trying to protect his hand from flush draws or maybe even staight draws although this is more unlikely and also an ace

You are all right and it was a bad call in the end.

I think I'm right about the fact I should have reraised preflop to define my hand more.  I was on tilt a bit that night and am a bit embarrased about posting the hand!

By small you mean $500??  :blonde:

Can't say I have Tikay have you? :)

Errr Well Chief reraising with JJ in this situation is horrible play I think. I don't get this define your hand business the reraiser has told you all you need to know now you need to get into this great cheap flop and hit that Jack or exit. At lower stakes cash people play pretty straight forwardly so keep it simple.


hmmm.

hehe.

I agree with JP, but i am a massive NL cash game fish, so does that make him wrong?

JP, I mean the initial raise of $6 that I could reraise, not the $25 raise.  You are right though that my hand was pretty much defined by the action preflop, he had AK or a high pair. 

Good job I don't play many texas holdem cash games. I'd be skint.

I had a similar hand last night, $2/4 cash game, dealt JJ, i raised it to 12 in mp, called by the button and the bb, flop comes 10, 7, 4, looked good, i bet the pot of about 40, called by button, turn was Q, i bet 40 again, he raised all in for about 300, i had about 200 left. I was thinking he would reraise pre flop with QQ, KK, AA, i originally put him on A10, but also thought he might re raise the flop with this to see where he was, anyway, as i thought about the call , i typed, i have JJ, he replied, i will show, (in hindsight i thought he was concerned to hear i had JJ, i had bluffed him once earlier also). Anyway, i figured he either hit a set or was slow playing some type of big pair , its usually a good sign of strength to flat call the flop and raise the turn, i folded and he showed A10, grrrrrrr.

Instant fold.

I believe that the big over raise was not because of any disguise but because that is a horrible flop. Apart from the Ace he is now concerned with flush and straight draws and still has two opponents. What he is syaing with that bet is "I will pay off your set or outdraw me if you wish, but if you are drawing then I am not giving you the odds and you are making a bad call".

Id not play cash games

This looks like a classic situation where your opponent overplays his AK after weak flop.  If he had anything decent (overpair, trips, etc) he would have slowed down a bit.  Easy call.