blonde poker forum

Another text in from Dave who is, I am sorry to tell you, still unwell.

"350 left in today's $1,000 NLH Rebuy. I think over 900 started, & about 350 are left. I am ave chips".

Followed by another.....

"Daniel Negraneu had 12 rebuys. He did several live straddles "all-in" & won two of them".

Poker skill at it's best, eh?

cheaper than last years 24 rebuys he is improving

I think that's obscene. "Who's got the deepest pocket" poker.

Respect? No way.

he was quoted as saying he wanted alot of chips on his table after the rebuys if he had to supply them no problem
think he had to finish top 8 to get his money back

he was trying to buy a bracelet but failed at the final hurdle with 3rd place

How sad........

I've seen other well known English pro's take exactly the same approach in a 200 rebuy.
What's the difference?
Just cuz Negranu can afford it at the higher level don't make him different.
Ian

There is no difference. I don't think its the right way to play whether they be Ameican or English or anythingelseish. Sticking your entire stack in blind hand after hand has no skill whatsoever. I feel exactly the same about any guys who do it.

i think you missed the implication there Tikay..............i was talking about a table i shared with Dave Colclough, Julian Thew and Scandie WHU champ.
Ian

I agree with you Tikay. Thats why there is a rise in the popularity of Freezeouts. A level playingfield against the sponsored players!

Yes, I maybe did.

But I know for sure that Thewy would never go all-in blind hand after hand in a 200 comp, he just wouldent. And his sponsor certainly does not pay his rebuys.

Same remarks appliy to Dave Colclough, he pays for hs own entries, & I've never seen him go all-in blind repeatedly.

Scandie WHU Champ. Is that Gunnarson you are referring to? I don't know the guy, so cant comment.

Welcome to blonde James, keep them posts coming!

Freezeouts are definitely fairer, but there is room for rebuys, but not, in my opinion, Negranua style. Apparently he plonked $10,000 on the table tonight & grandly announced he had plenty more where that came from, & was prepared to use it.

My point is I think poker is a mixture of skill & luck, & what Daniel did tonight (and in the same event last year) is 100% luck. And it hardly gives the regular guys an equal chance.

Dave just called. He said he has made it to the dinner break, along with a mere 170 or so others. He thinks the comp has made around $2,300,000. Wow!

Dave has 7,000 - slightly low compared to average - but he says he's comfy with that stack, given that blinds are only 200-400, with a running ante of 50.

He's still not feeliing well, but a shot at a bracelet & the fat end of a million bucks may make him perk up.......

Thewey called for all his chips twice, and both times hit runner runner for a diamond flush (queen diamonds).
He had no draw, it was all he could win with!!
Likewise DC had 4 or 5 rebuys and bet 750 on the last rebuy hand, was reraised and folded saying " i only did that so i could have a rebuy and topup".
Irrelevant whether they pay or not, they obviously could afford it and so an unfair advantage there is.
I know they are both pals and i don't criticize it as such but it's the same thing as negranu.
Ian

But I don't think it is, though I grant you I am in an awkward spot here, because they are both close buddies of mine.

The massive difference is that Negranau (if I spell his name enough times I will get it right eventually) was going all-in blind, for his entire stack, pre-flop, every hand.

In a 200 rebuy, Thewy generally limits himself to 2 rebuys, 3 maximum, but don't tell his missus that!

The example you give of Dave having 4 or 5 rebuys sounds about right, but he did NOT repeatedly go all-in blind pre-flop. And for sure, on the last hand before the freeze, it's common practice for players to play that hand "strategically", to optimise their buy-in/add-on situation.

I take your point, I really do, but I just think it's a significantly different thing that Daniel (there, Daniel is easier to spell), was doing - sticking all his chips in pre-deal, never mind pre-flop, & not even looking at his cards.

I didn't understand the "straddle" bit, and i wasn't having a pop at these fellas as such.
Fair play to those that can afford to do it (sponsored or not they got the cash)
It's only what i do in a 10/20 rebuy just magnified, that's the point i was making. To Daniel (hehehe) it's probably the same thing, the likes of Dave can see the same thing i saw, whether blind or not it's the same message......i can afford to do this, no probs.
There is the same skill factor in both cases it's just in Danny's case he took the shadow of doubt away.
Ian

The straddle? The guy UTG simply plonks all his chips in (in Daniel's case) pre deal & says "live straddle". The cards aint even been dealt yet!

I entirely agree that it's no different to what you or me might do in a 10 rebuy, but magnified many times. And when you & me do it, even though it's only 10 a pop, it is STILL wrong. The poor fellas who can only bring 20 with them are at a huge disadvantage, & that's just plain wrong, & I don't suppose for one minute they think we are being very fair, any more than I think Daniel is being fair.

In the interests in promoting skill over luck, the game needs to be played in the right spirit. Daniel is abusing our game by doing what he's doing. But I agree with you that if we were to do it in a 10 comp, we would be doing the same. Except that the world's media spotlight is not focussed on you & me - thank goodness!

I love poker, & when everyone is watching it, as at the WSOP, I think the top pros ought to realize this is a marketing exercise, a chance for our game to be seen in the best possible light. They should not abuse that opportunity. If they do, it will bite us all back sooner rather than later.

Tikay, I suggest you avoid any Ramsgate rebuy comps, definetely not your cup of tea. I went to one of their 100 rebuy comps after seeing they had a guaranteed 10k prize pool thinking that was good value. I soon learnt why they could guarantee the 10k as I watched numerous manics making rebuy after rebuy. One guy had 17 rebuys and another 14.

I personally prefer freezeout comps but do also like any rebuy comps that cap the number of rebuys ie 3 rebuys plus a top-up. These at least allow some creative play early on yet stops the deep pocketed manics from going all-in on every hand. I especially think all rookie nights should have such rebuy caps as I think it's unfair that newbies often find their first live experience nothing more than a lottery and find themselves in a totally different game than they expected and hoped for.

I see Daniel finished 1 off the money (though he needed a top 18 finish to break even)...guess his strategy failed this time!

Tikay,

While I respect your point of view and agree intellectually with your points surely the "all in blind" approach by the gambling/wealthy player has it's attractions to a solid opponent if he is fortunate enough to find a hand.

Even in a 200 rebuy surely most if not all are going to come armed with enough  for a rebuy and/or a top up. If the nutter/gambler goes all in blind ahead of you and you are sitting there with AA/KK/QQ/AK and maybe even a medium pair etc you can dwell up for a while feigning weakness if you want callers or fire it in immediately if you don't and should, all being well, double up or more. If not, and you suffer a beat, well that's why you have your one rebuy in reserve.

Consequently although I used to think it was a disadvantage to be in an expensive rebuy comp against a nutter these days I sit back and pray for a hand.
The disadvantage against a sensible sponsored player is I think though very real in that they will often play their draws through to the river where you, in semi-freezeout mode, are often throwing your draws away.

This last point is I think the key reason why freezeouts are unambigously more popular these days in festivals

Do we have any blondites still goign strong in the comp  ;)

This is a good point. I know that there have been representations to Luton about re-introducing the 3 rebuys only rule. As an example this Tuesday's rookie night attracted 109 runners and 407 rebuys with a prize pool of 5000+. Great, until you consider that all nine money places were filled by "names" and several complete newbies who I sat with and attempted to help on etiquette, procedures etc commented to me that they found the whole experience in some cases confusing, in some cases disspiriting and one said he wouldn't be back. Surely this defeats the object, which is to enlarge the player numbers, which benefits prize pools for us regulars and ancillary income for the casino, assuming a fair percentage will play the tables, eat a meal etc.

Paradoxically I think the best tournament for rookies to start with is the cheapest freezout they can find, but unfortunately the tolerance for inevitable mistakes, questions etc on dealing, shuffling, betting etc can be low

Good debate this has turned into, eh?

Terrific posts from TightEnd & The Diceman - they both make very valid points. The Diceman's suggstion of a cap on rebuys is excellent - pure & simple - just excellent. TightEnd is right to say that the multi-rebuy boys DO give the solid guys VALUE, but the point about drawing hands that he makes nullifies it to a degree.

Sad to hear Daniel failed to money - but only 'cos my bud Sig75 had a bet on him!

Serial rebuy merchants do put lots of my friends off playing comps at notts. I just treat it as extra variance - yes I'll be out drawn more but when I win I win more. It would be nice if there was an alternative though and if there was a reasonable buyin freezeout or limited rebuys event on a friday or saturday then i'm sure they'd jump at the chance.

This is why i'm planning a trip to Walsall:
They have a freezeout (50 on tuesdays) that I can afford - I'd love to try a freezeout but most of the buyins are too much for me.
They have a 10 rebuy comp - This suits my budget more than a 20 rebuy comp as i can afford to have more rebuys  (a case of keeping up with the jones'?::))

There's also the single addon/rebuy 10er on a Saturday afternoon at walsall.

Yes, I was planning on playing both for a full day of poker  ;D

we shouldn't loose sight of the fact that negranau is a phenominal player and is just execising an edge. The size of your bank roll will always effect how you play a comp, freezeout or rebuy. It shouldn't but it does. When I finally find a date to get Tikay and Thewy to my home game I can gaurantee one of the main edges you'll have is the fact that the stakes will be pretty insignificant to your roll where as to some of your opponents it'll represent an entire weeks social allowance. Daniel Negranau earned his financial edge and, in the same way Tikay or JT or DC are entitled to do at a 30 rebuy, he is playing that edge. He does ok in freezouts aswell.

I don't think any critisism should be directed towards Daniel. He's payed his entry fee to play the comp, so should be allowed to adopt any strategy he sees fit. I urge people not to suggest that Daniel isn't playing within the spirit of the game. If anything, it is the cardroom management who aren't, as they are responsible for the structure that enables such play.

I do see skill in his reckless play. He obviously thinks that he has enough of an edge to turn the numerous rebuys into an eventual profit. He knows that if he goes blind, he will get a call and have an opportunity to build his stack. If he believes that when he has payed for his stack that he is good enough to consistently turn it into a top 5 finish, then good luck to him.

I agree that it isn't nice to see and it does taint the game. However, it is the structure of that particular comp that allows players to buy their stacks which is at fault, not Daniel's choice of play.

By the way, excellent thread. Good to see blondepoker encouraging so many voices to be heard.  :)

To be honest I don't see a problem ith his strategy either.  He feels that so long as the table isn't going to be broken, the more chips that are on the table the more chance there is of him getting chipped up enabling him a big chance of a top placing.  Sounds like a sound reason to me although there probably aren't many people in the world it would apply to.

When I was a poor student in Brum I used to love the crazy all in fest that was the tenner rebuy.  I'd limit myself to a couple and just pick people off with big hands.  People knew I played tight but bizarrely that made them want to call me with s**t even more to try and outdraw me.  Fine by me!

Only trouble is now I adopt a strategy somewhere in the middle and do crap.  Hmmmmm.  lol

Assuming this topic is still mainly about the $1000 WSOP comp we have prices up once again in the specials section on the site.  Value to be found yet again Tikay - the crowds wait with baited breath for your latest tip......

http://www.bluesq.com/bet?action=go_specials

I'm not saying DN and other rebuy merchants are doing something wrong, just that some people are put off by it. It should be upto the casino to do something to enable these players to have a fun game. For those wondering why the casino would want to do this: people who haven't done their bollocks at poker have more to lose at roulette. E.g. a 20 comp at notts i saw a player buyin 10 hands in a row... That's 200 he won't be losing later on.

Also with the larger fields does DNs strategy become more correct as each rebuy will be a smaller proportion of the prize pool compared to a smaller field? Maybe he has realised that he can rebuy more and contribute the same % of the prize pool as he used to.

on the other hand Bongo Nottingham often has fields over 100 and on more than 1 occasion I've cashed over 1600 from 60 or less fields of around 70. this is only possible because of the rebuy merchants. We don't want them doing their money at roulette. we want it in the poker prize pool. where they go after they're knocked out is of no interest to me. a 50 freezeout would be unlikely to pay more than a grand where as a 50 rebuy could net you more than treble that, even if you personally play it as a freeze.

Why not start a thread in general discussion about it? I'm sure the topic's got more legs on it.

I know that, i was just outlining the benefit for the casino who do want them doing their money at roulette ;)

John Lau... 3rd in Blackpool main is currently chip leader in the $1000 rebuy!

Really hope john does this! he is the type of player who can destroy a field, and i think he's doing it!