blonde poker forum

The monthly deepstack at dtd is a great tourney and i have played in it a few times, well run and a good blind structure.
I have also played other deepstack events gukpt and ukipt , also well run and good structures.
The only difference being is the latter has a 15k starting stack.
Should dtd now start thinking about increasing their starting stack to 15k as most others have and even the wsop have done this over the last few years.
As this is dtd's ''flagship event'' i think this should play as a real deepstack, 10k is no longer a deepstack stack....
opinions please......

i hear what your saying, but why mend something that isn't broke?  :dontask:

So because another tournie starts with a larger number stack wise it must be copied/that's a good thing?



DTD blinds start at 25/50, the international this month is hosting a 100k starting stack comp. zomg that must be better right everyone likes saying they have lots of chips...... well the blinds start at 100/200 so 50 bets vs 200 bets. (that makes the DTD structure a deeper structure)......



As with the WSOPE you could have 3k starting stacks as long as the blinds start low enough and the structure is slow.

The stack size itself is less important than the whole of starting stack/blind length/level increases.

In all seriousness the 10k "deepstack" isn't really a deepstack imo. Would like stacks to increase to 12k for the 300 as their flagship event. However I understand that they need to get done in a weekend so 10k is fine.

any chance you could explain your maths. where do you get the 50 from?

Surely they could still get it done if they started day 2 earlier?  In my opinion it starts too late. If we stay over we have 3 or 4 hours to kill between checking out of the hotel and re-starting play.

The 10k did use to be the biggest starting stack dtd offered. The £150 used to be 5k, then 6k (I preferred these starting stacks for this) before they upped it to 10k. Then they followed suit with the other weekend comps.

So I can see why people think it diminishes the £300 a bit but I would t change it. 200 big blinds plus 45 min clock = deepstack imo.

100000/200 = 50

LDO.

by being a spack........ 500bb obv.


my point is the strucutre not the physical number of the stack size.

we could start with wan mirrion ........ is that better?

FYP

The other weekend deepstack comps are nowhere near the same structure as the deepstack. The only similarity is the starting stack.

30 minute comp and quite a few levels missing. Basically a crapshoot after the first 4 hours but structured perfectly to finish within 1 day.

If you want a comp with 300 to 400 runners which finishes within 2 sensible length playing days I can't see how you could possibly change what they already have.

If they add 5k to the stacks they'll have to remove a couple of levels to compensate.

Alternatively they can add 5k to the stacks and make it a 3 day comp like the GUKPT and UKIPT.

Nobody would play it though so that would probably be a bad idea.

let's have 8 gajillion chips to start. blinds starting at 1/2, level increase every 4 years. that's a propa nawty deepstack. will give alot of people a chance to use their folding edge......

At DTD I guarantee that at least 5 will be out in the first 20 minutes.

Once down to about 50-60 players in the lower limit "deepstack" events it does play like a crapshoot, you pretty have to move in and take the blinds.... not my idea of fun, but it works to a point. ie. finishing in a day.
Why don't you play the Monte Carlo if the 10k 45min clock doesnt appeal to you.... its 30k stack and 60min clock.

Oh yes, I agree completely. A lot of people thought just look at the starting stack. And 10,000 chips these days isn't really a selling point. Lots of people will just see that £50 = 10,000 chips. £300 = 10,000 chips.

The added levels and longer clock make all the difference in the world, but not everyone realises this. Hence why this topic was made. Complaining about 200bbs + awesome structure + 45 min clock = silly imo.

As has been said, its in the structure over two days more than the starting stack that matters

Think its the best monthly comp around and no need to tweak it, plays pretty deep throughout bar a level or two early on day two, but that'll happen in any comp.

Lol at people wanting a deeper structure

You just don't want to stay up any later with the updates!!

this is true too, but hardly likely to be a contributory factor to DTD's thinking!!

can we make it 4k chips, blinds start 50/100. ante in level 2 pls

Play cash if you don't want variance to play as much of a role in your results.

Tournaments by definition have to get like this or they'd never end. The skill is not being desperate when the blinds go up whilst everyone else is, that and winning without showdown/and at showdown!!

There's a pretty sick structure on sky that I played the other day.

Called a chip and a chair.

You get 2 chips the blinds start at 0.5/1 .....................

alot of ppl cant adapt to the structure and are hanging on to cash or wait for aces

the amount of ppl i see under 10 bigs folding makes me cry


i think the one day tourneys are amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <3 dtd

The 6 max turbo was sick. pls to be doing 3 of these a sunday :D

This whole starting chips of 76 billion "headline" is so lol. It is just to trick donks into thinking they will get more play to increase their "invisible edge".

I say start with 1000 chips at 10/20 introduce 1 chips for antes from the get go and have a longer clock in the later stages to increase the play when it actually matters. Not everyone looking ridic bored waiting for aa vs kk.

Btw this isn't a pop at DTD it is tourney poker in general.

I'm with longy!!!!


Chip and a chair comp structure would be a laff!!!

  +1 

IMHO you could give the random ppl that turn up at DTD 1 day deepstack events any structure you want and they would manage to turn it into a crapshoot. The average player in those play so painstakingly nittily and passively that the clashes between big hands that should happen dont happen because when anyone starts to play aggressively you know they have Aces+. The Monte Carlo event will play deeper, but mainly because of the higher overall standard of player imo. I reckon if you put the field that turn up for Saturday into the Monte Carlo it probably wouldnt finish until they eventually decide to make a move and put in their final 6bbs with AJo sometime in the middle of January.

tournies start with far too many chips imo. should start with 50 big blinds, but have a much longer clock, that would keep it deepstacked thru'out due to the longer clock. a tourney which had an average of 40-50bb all the way thru would be incred. would you like this OP? or is really what your askng that you want 3 million chips early on so you can splash around?

I wouldn't agree with this at all. In fact my experience is quite the opposite.

I can't count the number of times I've seen players get it all in in the early levels with hands like AQ v JJ, or one pair v flush draw.

For most deep-stack events, including the big buy-in ones, I find the rate of attrition truly astounding.

Definitely with Tom here. There's no way you can call the DTD players nitty in general.

Also the main reason the Monte Carlo will play deeper isn't because of the standard of the players.

It's actually because you get loads more chips and a longer clock.

Can it be changed to 1500chips,5min blinds and cap it at 45 players plz,kthxbye.

FYP

rofl

Quality post from stato. Red-dog AQ vs JJ is a cooler.

Nah but seriously they get it in with the same hands early on as late, with 10bbs or 40bbs their BB re-shoving range is the same, so they're all way way too tight once they get under 15bbs. In some spots with more bbs they're too loose, but usually they're just massive nits after level 1 imo.

I've only played a handful of the smaller buy in events at DTD and nitty is not how I'd describe it.

DTD was the first and only place I've played live and I was really shocked at how loose the play was.  In actual fact, it was a huge relief as I thought I'd be well out of my depth.

yeah do this!

Hi guys,

I think I can actually contribute with some stats to your discussion. Our data shows us that how long a comp lasts/the nittyness is based on 3 key key factors;

1. Buy-in
2. Clock
3. Chips

For example, our £15 comps finish at a BB level of between 8BB and 12BB compared to our £300 Deep stack which finish at 30BB - 35BB, the pattern is basically the same all through the different buy-in levels, therefore, the quality/style of the player makes a HUGE HUGE MASSIVE difference. We really have to take this into account when designing tournaments, or we could get ourselves in a position where an event would not finish. For example, the Grand Prix played down to 10BB, and we were still fliming in at 5am in the morning, it played more like a £25 evening comp that a £40K prize pool comp.

As a rule of thumb, and as the stats 100% prove conclusively, a comp will increase in what you call "nittyness" directly as;

1. the number of satelitte qualifiers increases as a % of the overall field
2. as the buy-in level reduces

I was shocked when I say the difference that experience/player profile makes to how a comp breaks down. However, ironically, professional/+ve EV tourney players will actually have their largest edge in these "nitty comps", wierd eh?

In our £15 comp last week, blinds were 5k-10k + antes, a player moved all in for 13k, and the BB folded. These types of decisions make these comps last for ages, and these players are very much the profile of satelitte winners into larger buy-in comps, hence the so called "nittyness" of some of these comps, and the reason why the chips and clocks have to be carefully designed with the player profile in mind, as it makes a massive difference to the finishing times.

Personally, as a player, I would prefer every £50 - £1000 DTD weekend comp/festival to be a 6 max turbo (15 min clock) with 10k chips, see 33% more hands, shorter clock, plenty of action, get knocked out early or be chipped up, and nitty players blind away quicker :) Its a pity that 6 max turbo at the Grand Prix only got 185 runners, I would love to have that as a monthly deeptack regular event, but really, comps with less than 200 runners are not financially viable at DTD on weekends.

Cheers Rob

I love turbo comps, they are the nuts.

There is one problem, the players.

So many players tank forever over easy decisions just like they do in regular tournaments.

It means live turbo comps just end up having 4 or 5 hands per level.

If only there was a way of implementing a time bank in live poker.

The £300 Deepstack event at DTD is an event that does not need touching,tweaking , reviewing in any way or form. IT is the perfect event for hi rollers, mid rollers an the everyday man affordable to all with lots of play an all done in 2 days with a chunky first prize. What more do you want  ?

I agree with this, I played the £300 for the 1st time this month and I thought it was a fantastic comp, I normally hate live poker but really enjoyed this and cant wait to play it again

this, the structure is perfect the way it is right now.

make it a  turbo imo. its a gr8 comp as it is. v nice to have a monthly £300 comp like this near by!

This.

A know a few might like the idea of (relatively) big buy-in, short-handed, turbo type comps, and I fully understand the rationale behind making the weekday comps play quicker. but imo, once you get around the £200/£300 mark, the majority of players prefer long clocks and deep stacks for their money.

I'll tell you something that amuses me. The players who say "Anyone can sit and wait for good hands" are the very same players who can't do it.

Actually, it's not about waiting for "Big" hands, it's more about waiting for "Big" situations.

I'm the original nit from Nitsville, but during the last £100k comp, I doubled up with 33 and trebled up with 56. I played those weak hands because the situation was right, not because the structure had forced me to put my chips in and get lucky.

All I'm saying is, even slow structures become fast eventually, and the nits have to adapt as the blinds and anties get bigger. The LAG's will get their chance, that is of course if they can adapt to the slow early stages, and survive in nitworld.



  

Why not do some 6 max turbos, and have a set amount of time chips per player. 30 seconds to make your decision unless you lob in a time chip and then you get say 90 seconds.....


not that hard to do, fixes the problem of people constantly playing so slowly etc




MORE 6 max turbos please ROB they rule!!!!!

give the dealer a stopclock, he counts to 5 in his head when the action is on a player, at zero he sets the clock to 20/30 seconds. hand is dead once the alarm sounds. players get 2 "timeout" chips they can throw into the middle to give them another 20/30 seconds on a hand.

promote it as the TNT: Turbo Nightly Timeout

(http://www.peacheykeene.com/75%20time%20bomb.gif)

but seriously, all dealers should have the stopclocks in use for live turbo tournaments imo

IS IT





aka


DOOOOO IT

Make it sng turbo madness
So u can play more
After ur bust

deffo have 2-3 turbos on a sunday afternoon after a deepstack or something!

I think the problem tho is that turbo's wont attract anyone apart from people like the guys in this thread who have been championing the idea - all really good players, and cos of this DTD wont put much of a gtd on them and the weaker payers wont be attracted to play (even though they defo should) and the comps be less and less value spesh if people have to travel.

Its a sick idea though whihc im mega +1'ING

and I really dont think this needs saying again but why not not like I have anything else to do...

MORE CHIPS DOES NOT EQUAL A DEEPER STRUCTURE.

Do you not think those who mainly play for the social aspect would be interested in playing 27/45 mans with the chance of playing 6/7 comps in one day and with a small field a chance to luckbox a win ?

I think it could make for a cracking day of poker but not sure how well it would be attended but then there's only one way to find out,hopefully Rob and co maybe see the potential and give it a go.Also +1 to all saying no changes necessary for the 300,it's a cracking comp and nothing needs tweaked at all.

Yh you mean 5 or 6 in the same day? I missed that bit, I think that would go down pretty well.

I wasn't sure what Paul meant but it's something I've wondered if it could work live.I reckon it could work really well and there could be a range of buy in's throughout the day from £20 upwards have 5-6 running at once and lasting between 1 1/2-2 hours and run 5-6 in one day.Maybe I'm in the minority though and there might not be enough interest.

Basically I'm abs terrible live and this would be my only chance of ever winning.

i mean mtt sngs would be good i think

ie not a schedule tourney

This is a brilliant idea, especially if it was done on regular basis over a weekend when the club was full, say for example from 8pm until close Fri and Sat. Reserve 5 tables and as soon as you get 5 tables, you're good to go. Make the buyin 20 + 5, 30 +5 whatever sensible rake you think you'll need to charge, and make the payouts similiar to what you get online i.e top 6/7 cash. IMO this is a winner and would certainly attract a lot. Great Idea.

Not for rake compared to cash games...........

I love turbos and would enjoy one more than a deepstack, but I wouldn't travel to go and play one. I come up from London probably every other month to play the Deepstack but wouldn't if it was turbo.

It could be done and still keep cash games running,simples.I would travel down because I like having fun and I like poker.

So basically you don't like enjoying yourself.

I'd play a turbo in London, just wouldn't travel for one. Notts isn't a gd place to go out in rly unless ur a student.

You enjoy a turbo for a short amount of time. I wouldn't travel to one if I know there's a good chance of me spending more time travelling than actually playing poker.

You play a lot of home games?

Where are DTD gonna put the clocks for 5 or 6 mtt sngs? It'd be a nightmare to run, plus they will be awfully rake-efficient for the players compared to cash. I don't know what goes through the head of a recreational player when they're choosing a game, personally I don't much enjoy poker and enjoyment is probably 3rd or 4th factor for me, where all the factors above that relate basically to profitability, but I personally don't think fish want to play sngs as much as cash, judging by the number of stts relative to cash games that run at dtd and gukpt festivals.

I don't think it would ever become a regular part of live poker,I was more suggesting it as a way for people to go play poker to have fun and have a much higher chance of making a little bit of money without the pressure of trying to winning 30k.If it worked it could be done once or twice a year as I doubt anybody would travel regurlarly to do this.

To be honest I'd prefer it if DTD deepstack started 100-150bb deep with more levels added on later in the tournament. Ideally I'd like to see something like:

10,000 chips, 45-1 hour clock.

50/100
75/150
100/200/25
150/300/25
200/400/50
250/500/50
300/600/50
400/800/100
500/1000/100
600/1200/100
 
and onwards.

This would give slightly less play at the beginning but much deeper stacks at the end, which I think most people prefer. This would also work well for DTD as more are likely to bust earlier and then play cash.

This ^^^