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Anyone watch the Man U-Liverpool game today? Thoughts?

Are Man Utd better then everyone else or is it just a poor PL this season?

Will they win a record 19th title this season?

Who do we need to buy to replace an ageing Giggs/Scholes?

Is Berba the real deal or should he go

SAF replacement? Mourinho or Guardiola?

nh sir.

End Thread Please

Before I start commenting on this thread, I'd like to let it be known that despite some sarcastic posts on their respective threads, I don't actually hate Leeds, Newcastle or Liverpool.

But I really, really, really hate Man United.

]


being chinese i kind of have to support man yoo
yes will win the league after chelsea spuffed up

get zezinho or jovetic as they are sick on football manager
i dunno about scholes
gtfo berba he doesnt even start ahead of small p for me in football manager
buy akinfeev

and mour-in-ho ftw

no trolling. Start your own "I hate Man U thread"

TY

Before I start commenting on this thread, I'd like to let it be known that despite some sarcastic posts on their respective threads, I don't actually hate QPR, Newcastle or Liverpool.

But I really, really, really hate Man United.

why?

Damn trolls

I agree with all the haters. nice to have a united hate thread on the forum imo

The list is long and detailed.

Paul Ince.

Norman Whiteside.

Mark Hughes.

Teddy Sheringham.

Roy Keane.

Gary Neville.

Peter Red Nose.

Mark Hughes.

Bryan Robson.

The ridiculous feeling of entitlement of their supporters.

Alex Ferguson's tapping his wristwatch.

But most of all, the 12 minutes of injury time they got in our relegation season which gave Cantona enough time to equalise and ultimately send us down.

y u hate mark hughes so much?

One of the dirtiest strikers in my years watching football.

And never ever stopped whining.

God, how did I forget Paul Scoles in my list?

I am in a moral dilemma

but I still

Hate Man Ure, really really quite a lot.

Waiting for Greeky to start a Chelsea thread, so I can see if my Chelsea list is longer than my Man U list...

Roy Keane, disgusting player/manager/human being.

Gary Neville, funnily enough actually like Phil.

Eamonn Holmes.

Mick Hucknall.

Angus Deayton.

Angus Deayton

Make a wish you two.

Too slow

Nani has all the worst charcteristics of Cristano Ronaldo, without the talent.

Rio Ferdinand seems to think he is some crazy funny guy, going around merking people. Whereas in fact he is just a twat.

When QPR got promoted in 1982, my Dad took me to Old Trafford for the first game of the season.

It was my first "proper" away trip (obv been to the other London clubs).

It was a fantastic game and tremendous party atmosphere and we trailed 2-1 with 2 minutes to go when Clive Allen hit the post when it would have been easier to score and Utd came straight down our end and made it 3-1.

Then we were kept in the stadium for over an hour.

Apparently their supporters wanted to do some damage to the cockney upstarts.

I mean, really, wtf?

Mods pls. All this trolling. Delete some posts

I don't mind Man U.

I also dont mind Liverpool. Must be unique.

Not keen on Rangers though tbh.

Although perhaps it would be in order to let them know you have deleted their posts

my little brother, born and raised in kent supports man ure. seriously, wtf is that all about, it's an embarrassment to me

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=51379.msg1290351#msg1290351

my brothers and cousins, born and raised in beijing supporst man yoo. seriously,wtf is that all about, its an embarrassment to me

In all seriousness have no idea why people get wound up by United fans being from all over

Why care so much?

Aged about 10 my oldest thought he better follow the fashion and take an interest in football, I had already bought him a Notts County shirt, his uncle bought him a Barnsley shirt (I tried to hide it). He picked Man Utd out of the air. I packed him a bag and put it by the door, he changed to Aresenal, fml.

I saw what you wrote, do you really think you needed to be informed that it had been deleted?

Absolutely

lolz

I want to play. Will try not to swear.

I hate that half their fans are prawn sandwich business sorts loads of which are Chinese/Japanese, (Paul Houk will call me racist again now no doubt) and the other half are Londoners.

When i went to the fa cup game last year at Old Trafford (which we won 1-0 fwiw) i saw lots of Asian fans with scarves on that were half Man Utd half Leeds designs. How ridiciolous is that! We have hated each other for 40 years. Its just a business now, more so than any other club.

I hate the fact they never go to the games/mention their games all season yet never stfu when they win a trophy.

I hate that they think they have fanatical, fantastic support but when you watch 17/19 home league games on TV the place is always like a graveyard. (I will concede their away support is v good but that is no doubt the 3,000 or so old school hardcore).

I hate all the scummy people on Camel's list.

I hate Alex Ferguson and his moaning and cheating.

The only thing i remotely like about them is that the only time i've been to Old Trafford for an away game we did them 1-0 when we were in League One! (duno if i've mentioned that yet)

potw imo.

Keith, that happened at most grounds in the 80's, so it's not a utd thing.

Haha love it brent.

Also whats it with the special fans you have at OT wearing the green and yellow scarves kinda defeats the purpose of hating the Glazers. Thanks for the moneyzz

And Gary Neville what a *****

so?

it's only a game

Don't you think hate is an irrationally strong emotion to ascribe to things which might more reasonably be qualified as mildly irritating?

I'm sensing you're not really into football that much Jon.

wow jon, really? you think there's no place for extremes of emotion in football?

Its not only a game though

fwiw, i hate them too.

Jones is a tool too.

Love this stuff. Makes me smile

Yes

in Football

Winning a match after being a long way behind, winning a league, winning a trophy
Losing in the final minutes, losing a big points lead, losing in general

but most of what is on most people's hate lists isn't about playing football

and hate is still a bit strong imo

Your argument is very strong and the passion involved in supporting a football club really isn't logical.

Why the hate for Paul Scholes? Someone who doesn't talk to the press, trys very very hard, puts extra time in the training ground and has expressed his want to play for his hometown team (Oldham) before he dies.

Possibly to do with the nasty side to his game where he goes round leaving his foot in constantly, getting an unreal amount of yellow cards in his career then we have to listen to comms saying he just can't tackle.

Oh and hes ginger ldo.

This

yeah, fkin tosser.

Emotion and a footbal fan.

Years ago I had a discussion with a Sheff Utd follower, he concluded that as a fan you sign up to misery that is entrenched in the system. You have times of pleasure when you win, come back from behind etc etc but the close season is the time of the real emotion. You look back on the previous season and you have a few short months of extreme pleasure if won that trophy that you craved for the team but there is more likely to be months of misery because you didn't. After all there can only be one ultimate winner and a large number of also ran. Is it not surprising that there manifests a feeling of extreme dislike, bordering on hate, of any other team that made your months of summer a misery.

What did we all think of Fergie taking back the players he  had loaned to Preston when his son got the chop?

Near perfect post........I'd also like to add the name of Brian "miserable face" Mcclair.

God I hate Man Utd almost as much as Derby.....vile!

Because you should support where you come from. That's the whole point. The club is representing your city/town/village etc. I know people move around a lot more these days but there is a disproportionate amount of scum fans everywhere just because sad individuals need to support the best team.
Support your local team or the team passed on to you from generation to generation. If you want to support winners just look at the results at 5 then watch match of the day and cheer on the teams you know go on to win.

scholes is ginger manure. he's like a cross between rich and jones

tosser

He is one the dirtiest players I have ever seen.

If he played for someone else he would have a record number of red cards.

And honestly he isn't as good as everyone cracks him up to be.

There are a few Utd players I don't mind: Giggs, Andy Cole, Neil Webb, Paul Parker obv.

Basically the non dirty, non moaning types.. It is unfortunately quite a short list.

This a cracking post

This.......and that's why football generates so much passion.  I feel I have to do my bit to keep the family tradition going......it's in your blood and it aint gonna go away!

OTOH, George Best, Bobby Charlton, Paul McGrath, Martin Buchan, Bryan Robson and managers like Tommy Docherty

I just detest them since they got good, it's been quite a long hate.

Great thread thx guys

The only thing I am surprised about is that people are surprised about this.

Thread of year candidate here

It is one of the best things about living in the North East.

When you walk around Darlo town centre the kids actually wear Darlo shirts (and Darlo are complete tez), you see the odd Middlesbrough or Toon shirt, but Utd, Lolerpool or Chelski are completely absent.

Pompey is the only other town I've spent any time in that has similar attribute.

Very good post.

.

Where does it say your supposed to support the team where your from? Surely it's up to the individual.

I get tarnished for being glory boy. I do not give a shite. I am from Leicester and I support United. There's reasons for it that have nothing to do with their success. Success came many years after following them. I have also been to games. It also probably significantly difficult to get tickets to Man U games than any other clubs

I don't like other clubs but more to do with rivalry than anything else. Also don't think there's many people on here who are in a position to judge- u all have season tickets do you?

“Jealousy is no more than feeling alone against smiling enemies”

What did ye make of this yourself George?

yes thanks, so does that mean I can judge?

I'd actually say most people who've posted on here up to now also have STs or attend games regularly

Did say most. Depends how you would define regularly.

Wouldn't expect anything less from the great man

I've lived in the North East for 7 years now, and this is the first season I've let my season ticket lapse.

FML that this is this the most successful season for nearly 30 years!

In the name of the team.

There probably some perfectly logical reasons to supporting a club from a different place to the one that you were born, grew up in or live in. I'd probably find it hard not to support Man U if "Lee Sharpe was the first Merlin sticker I ever got" or "when I was holding a fork one dinner time my Dad said I looked like the Man U mascot" or I had a red lunch box at school etc

It's never the trophies though.

So what if people wanna follow a successful team?

I hardly get to Nottingham ever to watch a game. But when living there I would go to every home game, at one stage I was also going to every home reserve game. In that city, you would have hardly been called a glory hunter if supporting Notts County, though I did start supporting them when they took the old fourth division by storm. Can you imagine the feeling of a County supporter whilst Forest were getting their annual open bus tour of the City with the league cup of other trophy. I supported County as I lived in the City, it was the nearest club and my next door neighbour was a County fan and took me to the home games when I was a kid. I still support them, after a 1/3rd of a century, even now I live in the South, you can't pick and choose you team and change with the wind. I am in a position to judge the obvious.

I had a season ticket while living in poland. we were still shit though

fk off im not gonna be supporting fanling united.  If i try hard I probs coulda made the team or even buy them out.
I support Man yoo because they wear a red shirt (lucky) and david beckham

The footy club you support is not about the team, the stadium or who owns it, its about the supporters, the local area and the history of that club.

If I supported a club 200 miles always from where I grew up then I wouldn't get it either.

So we have two sets of fans, those that are true to their local club however shit they are and those that aint.

I think everyone wants to follow a successful team don't they?

To truly appreciate success you must have suffered failure, disappointment and heartache.

I admire the way Arsenal play football, but the complete outrage of some of their supporters because they haven't won a trophy since 2005 is pathetic.

Barnsley and York City wear red too.

Keith Houchen used to play for York, he's as much of an icon as Beckham surely?

barnsley and york city were not on the tv in fanling

also who is houchen
btw i was born in the 1986 :)

racist

we eat prawn sandwichs cos its the most expensive thing that you can get for free if you are over their on business

its like in buffets u eat all the prawns and mussels coz they are more expensive then chips. I dont give a shit which ones taste nice as long as its expensive.

same with louis vuitton we like it coz its expensive

Keith Houchen:

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q5-ANGlhuM

How much of this do you attribute to you changing your 'stars avatar?

Almost completly.

Shouldn't you being watching the NFL?

Exciting finish!

7.5 pts. should be enough, although it should really be all over.

Philly will go for 2 if they happen to score, so it isn't all over quite yet...

I realize that, I meant that GB should really have had it totally wrapped up by now.

I support my local team.  My son will support either my team or if we dont live in Leeds the local team where we live.  Its all been said.

I'm a supporter.

George/Paul Ho etc are fans and have a favourite club.

BTW are there any Man Utd fans on here that are from Manchester, actually live there and go to games?

I dont want to hear about 'I lived there for 17 mins in 1981'

Stupid question as they would support citeh

(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m389/_gatso_/george.jpg?t=1294620389)

made me lol. george has only supported them for 8 minutes

im actually a barca fan, always have been even when they were sh*t.  my dad went to see them play once and i just always supported them.  Dont get to many games, tickets are hard to come by and its quite a long way to go.  

QFT if anyone's read Why England Lose - also released as Soccernomics - (http://tinyurl.com/22qmo9a) then it shows that it's quite normal that Arsenal haven't won anything since 2005.

lol. Rumbled

Good post.

What do Utd fans think of the debt and long term situation?

More medium term how do you think you'll cope when financial fair play kicks in?

What do you think of Fergie's tactics in Euope, especially away from home?

If you can't replace Fergie with an all time great manager what do you think of the director of football/coach approach which seems to be the future for clubs who can't all have a 10 year plus great manger?

TBH  i dont really support man yooo
i did when i was a kid but i dont support anyone know foot ball bores me slightly not as exciting as it used to be.
i went to old trafford once
thought it was shit never wanna go again unless its a super big game

So if you don't come from Manchester, and your parents don't come from Manchester but they do support Manchester United - then it's allowed for you to support them because you're following the family tradition?

And Man U have only been super successful  for about 20 years - so anyone supporting them for longer than that isn't doing it for glory hunting presumably?
Are they let off not living in Manchester, or is that not allowed - even if they weren't just following the trophies to start with?

Have to say that having watched Arsenal through the 70's I like the current situation

I enjoyed the invincibles time too as we stuck it right in United's eye but overall I like tht we don't win every week - it does develop the feeling of entitlement and a wrong kind of disappointment when you dont win that is very far from being a terrce supporter.

The way we play, the reltively sound financial situation are great triumphs in a terribly cynical time and personally, since the Champs league went 4 places and the cups became devalued I'm pretty content if we look good, retain great players, finish in the top4 and win fk all else

Most exciting recent season was when Spurs nearly pipped us to 4th place

I am actually grateful I don't support one of the mega clubs. Any little bit of success my club achieves means the world to me, I can't imagine that it would mean as much if my club won a trophy every year or expected to. The highs supporting a smaller club are massive as most of it is mediocre or worse.

I think I am bit of a sadist tbh, even when I got to have my pick of the crop when it came to US sports teams. I ended supporting one that hasn't made the Superbowl in the 25 years I have followed them and one that hasn't won the World series in over a century. It is going to be fking sweet when they do win something!

This is an interesting question. And deserves some thought imo.

As far as I can make out Man Utd don't have any debt - it's the owners who have the debt and use Man Utd's profits to finance their borrowings. The exact reverse to Man City & Chelski who have enormous mounds of debts which are just paid off by their rich owners.

Whilst this is a huge problem for Man Utd in terms of buying players and strengthening the squad i don't think they would fall foul of the proposed regulations as they make a profit each year and have a very low wages/turnover ratio.

I haven't studied it in much depth though so could be completely wrong.


And no I'm not a Man Utd fan but I don't hate them either. I save my vitriol for more worthy targets.

How does it feel to be out the cup in the 4th round?

They can do what they like, and fair play for following the family tradition, but in these types of cases, I just can't see where the passion comes from for the individual.
I suppose it's different for me as I was born in Nottingham, still live in Notts, and the whole family follow Forest.  When we lose it bloody hurts....I can't help it...it just does.

I just can't relate to the Man Utd fans who live all over, and have never been to the games.  When they lose, does it really pain these fans, probably not, they just go "oh well" but most fans suffer many many lows and you just can't buy supporting your local, lowly team for which you "feel" is a real part of you.

Not applicable
 :)

According to the Premier League's Fan Survey for 2007/2008 (the most recent I could find with this specific measure) the distance lived from the ground has been steadily increasing


Manchester United fans, according to this survey, lived, on average 78 miles from Old Trafford. Manchester City fans travel just over the average at 50 miles, and Arsenal just under at 48.

You'd think that 78 miles would put United at the top of the league in this respect, but one club has fans who, on average, come from further afield...


P32 Figure 5.4 if you want to know which club that is.  http://www.premierleague.com/staticFiles/67/f8/0,,12306~129127,00.pdf
You may be surprised

I think there was another survey which showed that there were a larger number of Man U season ticket holders who lived in the Manchester area than there was of of Man City season ticket holders.

I was going to post something about that earlier when somebody suggested something along the lines of actual Mancunians supporting City but I still can't find the actual report to back it up.

But basically if you happen to meet a football fan from Manchester - they're most likely to be a Man U supporter

Not suprised at all.....my money was on either Liverpoo or Chelski

Good article that one.

I like the bit which states "this reinforces the strong pull of Premier League teams" made me lol.  I'm glad I support my home town club where I was born.

+1 to not surprised. I assumed it'd be liverpool so tuned in for the surprise and was disappointed to be correct

I'm still puzzled over why they would have gone for two if they'd have scored.

Pretty sure it's against the club. I'll read up later.

you posted at 21-16 presumably? a td makes it 21-22 which in the last few seconds is effectively the same as 21-23 as the chances of scoring a safety are basically zero. a 2 pointer though makes it a 3 point game so they can give up a fg and still go to ot. then a philly td screws your spread

in the interests of balance it should be noted that I heart eric cantona

This thread has tilted me so hard.  I'm no less of a supporter of my club, just cos I don't live or grew up next door to the ground.  I know its aimed more at Man u fans, but hate this fcking argument.

Im sure there's some die hard fans who support clubs nowhere near them. Haterz gonna hate cos United are one of the biggest clubs in the world.

But as you've pointed out this does apply to others

(http://bigfourza.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/howard_webb.jpg)

1   Man Utd   20   24   44
2   Man City   22   17   42
3   Arsenal   21   20   40
4   Tottenham   21   6   36
5   Chelsea   21   17   35
6   Sunderland   22   3   33
7   Bolton   22   5   30
8   Newcastle   21   3   28
9   Blackburn   22   -6   28
10   Stoke   21   0   27
11   Everton   21   -2   25
12   Liverpool   20   -3   25
13   Blackpool   19   -5   25
14   Fulham   21   -2   22
15   Birmingham   20   -5   22
16   West Brom   21   -13   22
17   Wolves   21   -13   21
18   Aston Villa   21   -15   21
19   Wigan   21   -15   21
20   West Ham   22   -16   20

As if he'd be seen in last year's shirt!

 ;D

2pts clear with 2 games in hand looks so pretty

A sight to make you smile...

http://www.yorkcityfc.com/history/manua.php

GG Giggs, Beckham etc...

(pity York sold all their players and ended up toss)

That post of the league table above simplifies why I hate (for lack of a better word) Man Yoo/Chelsea gloryhunters.

I just don't get the point in doing that? I wouldn't do it if roles were reversed. I'd be more likely to laugh at Chelsea in George's position, as it's been known from the start that Liverpool would be lucky to hit Europa League. Liverpool are where they should be.

Chelsea, on the other hand...should be up with MU, not 9 points below.

Would someone please explain the need for posts like that relating to a football team. Just makes the poster(s) look childish.

and posting the image of a Howard Webb in a man u shirt is ok? Plus all the haters posting?

 I started this thread at the request of a few sensitive Liverpool fans and all its been used as a I hate man u thread.

I consider it abs genius that the liverpool fans got you to start a utd hate thread

The Howard Webb thing is stupid. He's a ref, he can make mistakes. FYI, I agreed with the Gerrard red and thought the pen was ridic soft. As people have said, we'd have prob got the same had it been Anfield.

Just looks petty and juvenile from both sides. It's 2 football clubs ffs, not life and death.

Wasn`t it Shankly that said football is greater than life or death ?

He said it was more important than that.


( I misread quoted passage, making my post, this one, useless, I could delete but left it as a warning against speed/sleep reading)

What you need to start doing is posting 7 billion paragraphs worth of text from some biased journalist in this thread. That only supporters of that team could be arsed reading.

 rotflmfao rotflmfao

Lol exactly

Keeps most of the trolls away except the really bitters. ;)

I find no reason to hate man yoo as my team doesn't compete with them.One thing that I can 100% gte is I'm in no way jealous of Man yoo fans who get to celebrate a trophy pretty much every year as Newcastle winning one trophy in my lifetime will feel 10x better than 99% of Man yoo's fans feel about there continued success.

I'd also say it's not just about going to games and having a season ticket.I used to go to every home game and most away games but now I hardly go but I still have that desire inside me of wishing my team to do well.I feel sorry for those who are glory supporters and will never get that feeling.

The Baron wants to know United fans views on Financial Fair Play - will it affect Manchester United?

The club says 'no' - but then they would say that wouldn't they...

The early analysis in May suggested that United only acheved a profit in the last accounts because of the sale of Ronaldo and that they might struggle to mee the criteria in future years. I'm sure this brought a smile for many supporters of ther clubs.

More considered analysis now suggests that we are aongst the better managed clubs - The Times Financial Fair Play League which attributes a weighting to points gained in the league based on a number of financial well-being factors had United in 6th at the 29th November (I won't pay a subscription and can't find a more up to date table). Chelsea were a surprising 10th and two of the bottom three spots were occupied by Citeh and Liverpool. Arsenal and THFC were 3rd and 5th respectively.

This table doesn't necessarily show that we will be safe under the new rules, but it does show that our administrative management is as on the ball as SAF's team and I certainly have no fears about our ability to meet these requirements without reducing our effectiveness as a football team.

I'd be seriously surprised if either Chelsea or Liverpool failed the test when the time comes - I'd be less surprised if Citeh failed, but I'd still be surprised. It would be an act of suicidal folly to allow your club to miss out on the benefits of CL or even Europa League football and all clubs will be looking at ways of converting loans to 'investment' and rebalancig their wages/income equation.

The rules will remove the benefits of mega-wealthy ownership - not something that United have ever had the benefit from

"I hear a lot about the fans - that most of the people from Manchester are City fans." - Dzeko

He'll fit in well I reckon.

Maybe I have it wrong then I thought it was much more than wages vs income etc. I thought it was created so that if you were a club in debt (and Utds is very long term debt) then you couldn't compete in European competition and the sanctions may be as severe as transfer embargos.

In fact I cant find one link that tells us exactly what it does.

Clubs could be banned from European competition from the 2014/15 season onwards if they do not comply with new financial rules.

The rules state clubs must break even over a three-year period.

Club owners will be allowed to put in up to €15million a year but only as equity, not a loan. This figure will then drop to €10million annually.

Clubs will be able to spend as much as they want on stadiums, training facilities and youth football.

UEFA will have a range of sanctions from warnings to a transfer ban to exclusion from European tournaments.

Across Europe, total club income in 2009 rose 4.8% to €11.7billion, but expenditure was a 9.3% increase to €12.9billion, making a €1.2billion deficit.

Most of the expenditure goes on player wages and one in three European clubs spent 70% or more of their income on salaries.

56% of European clubs ended 2009 in the red.

One in four clubs spent €6 for every €5 they earned.

A drop in transfer activity has reduced income by 5% to clubs in Scotland, France, Portugal and Holland.

English top-flight clubs are comfortably the richest in Europe with average revenue of €122million - five times higher than Holland and Russia.

Germany is second with average earnings of €86million.

Scottish top-flight clubs' average revenue in 2009 was €16m, the League of Ireland €1.3m, Northern Ireland 0.7m and Wales 0.3m .

Clubs will be monitored if there are warning signs such as: recording a loss in any year; spending more than 70% of revenue on wages; having overdue football-related payments or tax debts; high level of debts.

As with a tax declaration, the onus is on the clubs to provide the correct information to UEFA and they will be subject to spot-checks and face sanctions if they do not do so.

National associations will initially grant the licences but UEFA will have spot-checks to make sure that the rules are being applied correctly.

From my understanding this makes interest on your debt a huge problem.

Notionally the high level of debt for Man U sounds like it could be a problem, but as suggested before the exact definition of who holds the debt could be the simple way that it isn't.

More generally, as far as I'm aware, the club is run very well financially - huge operating profit, less than 50% of turnover spent on wages etc - so even if they get flagged with warning signs, they probably wouldn't face sanctions (as long as it's looked at by accountants and not done politically)

Rather than clog the celery thread I'll respond to this here - Capacity in those years was around 65,000 so it's about 12%.
There were another 3500 or so that lived in the surrounding postcodes too - making c18%

The data is all rather old now, but it does rather kill the myth about MUFC supporters all living in Surrey... (which of course is actually a hotbed of Chelsea support)

Yeah I giggled when he said that

so just pay £25mill for a youngster then, job done

Ahh, I get it now. Cheers.

http://newsthump.com/2010/12/31/referee-howard-webb-awarded-mbe-for-services-to-manchester-united/

 rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao



new site for me
liked this too http://newsthump.com/2011/01/10/psychiatrists-warn-of-the-mental-health-risks-associated-with-managing-liverpool/

If the % of city's stadium is higher they have a good shout for being the club of the city though?

TBH the whole analysis of this is so open to abusive interpretaion that it's barely worth arguing about

But - if you can sell 78,000 tickets each game then you buiild a stadium that can accomodate that number - you then choose how many season ticket holders you want.

If you select a manchester resident at random and ask if they have a season ticket for United or City then it is more likely that they will support United than City. Does that give United a shout at being the 'club of the city'?

The study is pretty flawed if you're trying to prove one or the other so the answer to both your question and mine is probably no btw

I don't think what proportion of a clubs support can possibly be used.

If you have a club with a million fans and 900,000 of them are local - is that not the 'club of the city' just because another club has 10 season ticket holders and all 10 of them are local?

The only basic measurement that makes any sense statistically and logically is what proportion of the city itself supports the club.

So we're agreed this 'evidence' is pants for any statistical analysis?

City club of the city imo ;)

Lol it seemed to be your opinion that replacing Hodgson with Dalglish would bring immediate impact ....

Nearly as funny as Utd as the club of Manchester!

anyone know how many of fc united's st holders are from the manc area? they're probs the club of the city even though they don't play in it

bout 350

Rafael has really slotted in to the Gary Neville complete twat role at utd.

Two footed jump in against Liverpool last week, Stevie G style lunge against Spurs that only gets a yellow.Also waving imaginary cards will endear you to most fans.

For the record does anyone know if its a rule or not to get booked if you wave an imaginary card I though i had read that somewhere before but not too sure, I would have loved the ref to say to Rafael there you go theres your yellow card and hit the showers while you're at it.

I thought that asking for a card like that also meant you got one but am not sure whether that rule actually came in to effect.

I can't believe Andy Gray thought Crouch challenge was the same as Rafael's....I hate Andy Gray's commentary during a match (he's OK after it as I can switch it off then)

I agree. Reckon Rafael will follow in Neville's footsteps and become one of the best ever PL right backs

yea he's handling Bale well atm.

cya

This

pretty sure imaginary cards still come under unsporting behaviour rather than specifically being a cautionable offence so it's down to the ref's discretion

vidic was immense today (apart from getting away with pulling van de vaart's shirt in the box) and rafael is a ***** for doing the imaginary card thingy

Still not playing anything like we know we can - too many misplaced passes too much possession conceded to think otherwise
Vidic was immense though and a very bright attacking side like Tottenham rarely threatened to score

Still top of the League
Still unbeaten

Genuine Q - chances of the CL this season?

0

Agree. I am shocked we are top tbh. We have been mediocre at best this year. Shows how shite everyone else is

Pretty fair comment but can't see other great European sides smashing it up either tbh. Barca again?

It has to be Barca, the way they are going.


and PSV for the Europa League obv :)

There's obviously a strong case for taking Barca to win again but ...

In early 50 yrs of supporting United I've always been an optimist about their chances - even in the dark days of the 70s when Alex Stepney was our joint top goalscorer at Christmas and the original King scored that goal at Maine Rd I couldn't be miserable about our chances.

We're playing badly by all measures - our top man is struggling, the midfield is short of class and the team isn't functioning as it should but we're still in the KO stages of the CL and the FA Cup and we're top of the league.

Why shouldn't I believe?

(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7402/xavilionelmessiandresin.jpg)

I know you mentioned it, but there is no but

I just can't see how any other team can win the CL.  It would take Barcelona having an off day and Rooney and Co. to come up with a spot of genius.  Although this is possible, neither of those things has happened yet.

Barcelona unstoppable this season IMO.

Sigh...

but the Leeds fans believed last season at OT

v v difficult to beat Barca over 2 legs, but can certainly happen, although they would have to underperform in 2 legs and the other team be on top form.

Is it ghey to get a semi when looking at that picture?

Found this article interesting and thought it would be rude not to share here.

'What is it about Howard Webb and Old Trafford' asked the front-page blurb
of F365 after Sunday's rather controversial FA Cup clash. Well now you can
judge for yourself with our guide to his last ten matches at OT...
 
Man United 1 Man City 2, February 10, 2008
City's victory is more comfortable than the scoreline suggests - United
score their goal in injury-time - and Webb enjoys a relatively easy day at
the office. The game marks the last time that United fail to win a game at
Old Trafford officiated by the Yorkshireman.
 
Man 2 United Arsenal 1, April 19, 2008
There is little argument from the Arsenal players - five of whom are booked
during the 90 minutes - when William Gallas handles in the area and Webb
awards a penalty that sees Cristiano Ronaldo equalise from the spot. Ten
minutes later, Owen Hargreaves - remember him? - scores United's winner
direct from a free-kick.
"You could give or not give the penalty. For the free-kick, Gilberto did
not touch him," complains Arsene Wenger.
 
Man United 3 Chelsea 0, January 11, 2009
Less than 48 hours after Rafa Benitez advises Luiz Felipe Scolari to
"man-mark" Ferguson and his coaching staff at half-time so that the referee
is protected from interference, Webb cautions four Chelsea players within
half an hour before a Nemanja Vidic header on the stroke of half-time sets
United on their way to an emphatic victory.
Just moments before the Vidic goal, Webb had ruled out a Wayne Rooney
'goal' after United had taken a short corner that went unnoticed by most
spectators inside Old Trafford.
 
Man United 2 Blackburn 1, February 21, 2009
Webb disallows a Jonny Evans header and cautions Cristiano Ronaldo for
diving shortly before the forward scores the game's winning goal. Rovers
complain afterwards that Ronaldo should have also been booked for flicking
out - it hardly amounts to a kick - at David Dunn but the game's most
controversial moment occurs in the final seconds when a clear shirt-pull
inside the area by Rafael on Morten Gamst Pedersen goes unpunished.
"It would have to be pretty blatant to get a penalty at Old Trafford. We
all know that," rages an angry Sam Allardyce. "You'd have to ask Howard
Webb if Ronaldo should have been on the pitch. Those things come and go
when you're playing at Old Trafford, don't they?"
 
Man United 5 Tottenham 2, April 24, 2009
In the words of the Daily Telegraph, 'it could have been the decision that
secured United the championship'. United are trailing 2-0 with barely half
an hour left to play when Webb - 'who was almost 35 yards away, and behind
play' - awards a penalty when Heurelho Gomes tangles with Michael Carrick.
Replays clearly show the goalkeeper took ball before man. "The players
can't believe it," says Harry Redknapp. "It changed the game." Momentum
shifted, Spurs collapse and United never looked back.
"I think it was a case of a referee crumbling under the pressure at Old
Trafford really," complains Jermaine Jenas. "The atmosphere, the occasion,
the importance of the match, a lot of factors take their toll when making
decisions. One thing which struck me about it was that he didn't even
think. It was like he'd already made his mind up when he came out for the
second half that he was going to give something. It was a very important
moment in the season."
 
Man United 3 Man City 1, January 27, 2010
Webb makes his first return to Old Trafford since the Gomes controversy for
the second-leg Carling Cup semi-final. United eventually progress to
Wembley courtesy of an injury-time aggregate winner from Wayne Rooney, but
the outcome could have been very different had Rio Ferdinand justifiably
received his marching orders after 24 minutes of play after a clash with
Carlos Tevez.
In the words of the BBC match report, 'Ferdinand was fortunate to escape
punishment from referee Howard Webb when he caught the Argentine in the
face with a swinging arm as they tussled for possession.'
 
Man United 2 Liverpool 1, March 21, 2010
Sir Alex Ferguson and Rafa Benitez clash on the touchline after Webb awards
the home side a controversial 19th-minute penalty that enables the
champions to draw level after Fernando Torres' early opener.
With replays also showing that the initial contact between Javier
Mascherano and Antonio Valencia occurred outside of the box, Benitez
accuses the United player of diving to win the penalty. Ferguson responds
by applauding Webb's decision and arguing Mascherano should have been
dismissed. "Refs are professional but we know about the influence of Sir
Alex in everything," counters Benitez.
 
Man United 3 Liverpool 2, September 19, 2010
Though Liverpool claw their way back into the match through two disputed
decisions, neither call is made by Webb. "They didn't offer anything and
depended on decisions from the linesman to get back in the game," notes Sir
Alex. With Darren Cann flagging for both infringements, and replays
offering no evidence that Webb would have awarded either the free-kick or
the penalty from which Steven Gerrard scores, the referee's big decision of
the day is whether or not to dismiss last man John O'Shea for pulling back
Fernando Torres.
As F365 argued at the time: 'The decision was taken quickly and apparently
made without any consultation between Webb and Darren Cann, his long-time
assistant whose flag-waving prompted the award of a free-kick. Ref365
argues in support of Webb on the basis that replays 'suggest' Torres would
not have reached the ball. Denied the use of a replay, it must have been a
50-50 call from the officials and it's certainly debatable whether a
defender making such a cynical foul in the full knowledge that he was the
last man deserved the benefit of any doubt.'
 
Man United 1 Arsenal 0, December 13, 2010
Cann is not on duty and it is Webb's new assistant Dave Bryan who awards
United a second-half penalty for a non-existent handball by Gael Clichy.
Webb rubber-stamps the award and justice - or something close to it - is
only served when Rooney blazes over the ball.
Four of the visitors are cautioned over the course of the game, while Rio
Ferdinand escapes punishment for a hip-high, studs-up challenge on Bacary
Sagna and Darren Fletcher isn't even cautioned for chasing after Webb
before pushing the official.
 
Man United 1 Liverpool 0, January 9, 2011
In sharp contrast to events six months previously, it is Webb, from a
distance of around 25 yards, who awards United their match-winning penalty
for an alleged offence that occurs on almost exactly the same part of the
pitch that saw Cann award Liverpool their penalty at Old Trafford in
September. Replays indicate that Berbatov falls to the ground in an
exaggerated fashion and show that Webb linesman did not signal that any
foul took place. "The penalty is a joke," says new Pool boss Kenny
Dalglish.
The Scot is further aggrieved by Webb's decision to dismiss Steven Gerrard
but there is little sympathy for the Liverpool captain after his reckless
lunge.
 
 

So he only made mistakes in Utd's favour in the last 8 out of the last 10 matches? That's not too bad.

Apparently he was biassed towards Spain too

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldcup2010/article-1293917/WORLD-CUP-2010-Holland-0-Spain-1--Dirty-Dutch-whine-Webb-bias.html

Seriously though, 'we wuz robbed' is the oldest cry in football

lol, that might just have been V Marwijk in the heat of the moment. Noone in Holland actually said this. (mainly because we missed most of the match as our heads were in our hands with shame at some of the challenges)

Interestingly, and the whole thing is probably ripe for a tl;dr, Howard Webb is statistically prioven to 'favour' Liverpool almost as much as United

If you're researching from a Gooner perspective that is...

http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/8938

Probably but only a semi?

Biased no. Bottler yes.

Doesn't look like we're adding to the squad this month - no real surprise there. Valencia is on his way back and there's plenty of decent cover available unless both Ferdinand and Vidic get injured/suspended at the same time.

Next four league games, Birmingham (H), Blackpool (A), Villa (H), Wolves (A) with a nice trip to the south coast for the Cup game in the middle.

Our unbeaten start in the League should be extended to 25 games by the time the City game comes round

Will Mancini be going for the away win that day? Or will it be the standard 4-5-1 away formation?

Standard 4-5-1 would be my guess. Mancini only cares about getting top 4, he really doesn't seem to care about anything other than that

He probably won't be there to see the plan through then. City fans won't settle for pragmatism in the derby - another 0-0 with them showing no great ambition to put one over on us by ending the unbeaten run won't count for much even if it helps them to 4th or even 3rd or 2nd

I hope he isn't, he's a boring manager that seems to prefer the standard catanachio of the old school Italian clubs. I hate watching City play, they have all the talent in the world and then decide to settle for the draw in the big games.

Its the most boring uninspiring Man Utd team since the start of the Premiership, yet they are unbeaten and top of the league... ;carlocitrone;

It's really hard to argue with that - and it's so frustrating because we could be so much better. The Blackburn game should have been the kickstart we needed but it isn't happening.

5-0 false dawn or United kicking into gear?

Still can't make my mind up about Berba. 3rd hat trick of the season but still haven't quite got the faith that he's gonna continue firing on all cylinders.

What I do know is if Rooney rediscovers his form of last season we're gonna take some stopping

Haven't seen any of it 'cos I was a bit busy with the pokerz yesterday, but this is already Berba's most proflific premier league season and there's nearly half of it to go. Three hat-tricks against poor sides distorts the figures a little, but as someone posted in another context, form is temporary, class is permanent.
According to the Telegraph write-up Rooney was a key factor in the performance?

Congratulations on winning the title.

Sigh at the stone wall pen not gave when it was 2-0, bottle job

Disappointed at the lack of flaming when United were 2-0 down

George if you have seen footage of the match , was that a stonewaller or what?

Not seen it yet unfort (not doing a Wenger). Was at a mates playing the pokers. Will report back. Maybe it was and tbh when I saw we were 2-0 even I said "well there goes the unbeaten record"

Somehow, as bad as we at the moment, we pull the rabbit out of the hat.

SAF- hate him or love him (most of you hate him obv)- LEGEND!

Best manager of the last 30 years no doubt, pulls off terrible Rooney and they score 3 goals...deffo penalty tho! good effort Blackpool...

I agree unfortunately. Spent the last 15 years waiting for him to retire/die and hes slowrolled me a few times. Hopefully only a few more years now.

Sledge you forgot to mention the York v Manchester result.

Dammit so I did John!


BUT get it right fella, it was Manchester V York, 0-3

Just viewed it

Penalty obv

Not given though...

I'm a heretic but agree. FMMFCOAL!

Theres you successor bet too Horner dont forget

hahahahaha nh forgot about that for like the 15th time in 6 years.

Hes doing a good job at Leicester tbf.

Neville retires.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,,12040_6718989,0.html

GG Gary Neville. Legend

FYP

lolz

Never understood the hate...

602 games for his one club, 85 caps, a few trophies along the way...

Is it envy?

I dislike him. He wrote (or someone else did for him) in his autobiography the he hated all Leeds fans and thought they were all muppets.

I really hope he wont be on Sky as some of the papers have hinted at.

No probs saying he's a very good RB. Less problems saying he's a twat.

If I was ever jealous of that face I'd have to shoot myself.

sounds like envy to me

RIP those who died in the Munich disaster 53 years ago today.

Neville thrives on the wind up and hating citeh, leeds and liverpool. Not just professional rivalry, he makes no secret of the hate, so no shock when he is hated back.

I am a Liverpool fan but respect the likes of Ryan Giggs for being the ultimate professional and an excellent role model for aspiring footballers.

Gary Neville though....  grease fire is too good for him.

Yeah sigh, I wish I was that good looking.

My father knew his football and said that Duncan Edwards was the best he ever saw...

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr75rgusNJU

Incred Rooney !! Not since Trevor Sinclair have i seen such a perfectly executed overhaed kick.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_YgCH-qwaM

Shins it doesn't he?

lol

Looks good to me Boldielocks, reckon if i tried it 100 times id hit 99 airballs and 1 over the bar  :D

lol..fair point and I couldn't do it but it's not perfectly executed...great goal but a bit overhyped. Hell, it's not even Rooney's best goal ever IMO.

imo they're a bit like goalkeepers saving penalties - there is skill involved, but with just as much luck as well - looks good when they pull it off though and they get a disproportionate amount of praise for them.

Usually from armchair journos who've never tried an overhead kick in their life!

Obertan and Bebe, worst ever Man UTD players?

I call your Beborbertan, and raise you David Bellion!!

Bebe was abs terrible I will be shocked if this goes the other way, he was ridic bad

Djemba Djemba?

so bad they named him twice - arrived at the club in the same summer as Kleberson, also a contender to be at the head of any list of SAF's bad buys.

Kleberson was supposed to replace Juan Sebastian Veron which in a sense he did


The current crop of second string players includes too many who lack substance. Obertan has had his chances, seems unlikely he's got anything more to show. Bebe? Can't see theres much there to deserve too many opportunities. Gibson - an enigma, i think he suffers, as does Carrick, from just 'not being Paul Scholes'.

All that being said, we have Park, Hernandez, Smalling, Valencia when fit, Owen, Carrick, Brown, O'Shea and errmmmmm  ;carlocitrone;

How did Shrek manage to get away with that elbow the other day? Its an absolute joke system the FA have.

MOTD shows that twattenburg clearly wasnt even looking at the incident and yet he's now coming out saying he saw it and was happy with his decision, so apparently you must be allowed go round  throwing stray elbows.

Then you have to listen to Fergie whinging that there will be a witchhunt because It's Rooney and  there was nothing in it. Fck off Fergie, such bullshit.

It was hard to ban Rooney with Chelsea and Liverpool on the horizon I guess.

It's shocking isn't it

compare and contrast two similar incidents http://soccertvlive.blogspot.com/2011/02/video-rooney-elbow-wigan-wayne-rooney.html (http://soccertvlive.blogspot.com/2011/02/video-rooney-elbow-wigan-wayne-rooney.html)

They look similar at first but if you look closely you will see that one is against Michael Brown.

I think  theres an obvious difference Brown and Gerrard are running towards the ball and Brown is turning round looking for stevie with his arm already raised he was just bet to it thats all that happened there. Where as Rooney was totally unprovoked and then you have the ref lying that he saw it when MOTD shows that he wasnt looking.

Whats your own summation of the two incidents?

/\/\/\/\/\/\
This is a fair point.



My view is that United supporters will rationalise it in the same way that LFC supporters rationalised Gerrard's.

You say "Brown and Gerrard are running towards the ball and Brown is turning round looking for stevie with his arm already raised he was just bet to it thats all that happened there"

I say "McCartjy moves into Rooney's path to block his run towards the ball, Rooney defends himself against a bodycheck."

Both should be punished, Gerrard wasn't, I doubt that Rooney will be.

this is a beautiful line.

Chelsea fans can say; Ashley Cole was protecting himself from the intern's falling piece of paper so he shot him.

Rooney should have gotten a massive ban for his action there, there is no excuse....other than that he's Wayne Rooney, plays for ManU, the ref is a complete and utter spanner and the FA have no balls whatsoever.

Did you read all of the post that you have selectively quoted from?

Yeah, and I see you agree that he should be banned and were only saying it in response to the Gerrard thing...I just thought it was a beautiful, almost Ancelotti like line. "Our players are not out of control at all, they are all professionals and who hasn't made a mistake in the past?" is roughly what he said yesterday.

You're right Carl baby, except that we never shot anyone at work, you ball-less plonker.

(http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq267/ppokerfan/elbow.gif)

Referee Mr. Martin Atkinson's record for Chelsea: P-16 W-15 D-1 L-0 For-38 Against-2. 12th men for Chelsea, surely not!?

(http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_sow_experts__17/ept_sports_sow_experts-560011527-1299023829.jpg?ymVvxoEDp9TbRDUG)

It's a nice stat but won't most refs have similar records for the big teams?  Before this season Chelsea had lost 26 times in the last 228 games Pretty obvious that the loss collumn is never going to be that high.

shhhhh these threads aren't supposed to feature reasoned debate! Otherwise people wouldn't be able to whinge about the number of penalties awarded to United at OT (a factor of the amount of time United spend in the opposition penalty area)



At least the picture appears to be genuine on this occasion - no Babel-style photoshoppery there

"We cant dispute a referees decision" Mike Phelan 26th Feb 2011

QFT

VWP

caragher is pure filth

fyp

just seen replay, pretty lucky to still be on the pitch

for every bad rafael challenge you post ill post 10 disgusting filtt ridden carragher ones

that guy is as spiteful and disgusting as a professional footballer gets.

the day someone snaps his leg in a challenge and ends his career is maybe a day when he looks back at his conduct on the pitch

Today feels a lot like last season- we were challenging on all fronts then our season fizzled out.

Ive maintained all season we are below par and somehow still top of the league. Just hope Arsenal do their usual bottle job otherwise I think we will struggle again close season.

I would love us to buy another striker in the summer and a box to box player in midfield who can contribute with goals- Scholes/Carrick/Anderson and Fletcher all prefer to sit deep.

Alright lads , hows it going in here? Having a good day?

Highlight of the day Nani crying like a bitch

lol

*Cough* Gary Neville *Cough*

gtfo

What do Man U fans think of Fergies tactics in the last couple of games?
For ages now United have been a 451 team in big games. Playing not to lose and hoping that they can nick one at the other end.
This week he went 442 twice and lost twice. I know decisions went against you and 2 points wouldn't have been amazing results either but psycologically it would have been a lot better.
I get the feeling he started to believe they had already won the title and went out to try and embarrass both Chelsea and Liverpool to stop people saying it was the worst United team for ages.
It backfired and we might now actually have a title race.

SAF is arguably (almost unarguably) the best manager in Premier League history - he's delivered trophies for over two decades so I'm not going to start questioning his tactics and team selection in two games, played away from home against two teams with a huge incentive to beat us.

Two more big games this week - ask the question again next Monday after Marseille and Arsenal.

Also meant to mention this point - Fletcher. He's the ultimate big game player. He breaks down so many of the oppositions attacks that you are much less likely to lose with him in the team. Doesn't offer a lot going forward but I think he has scored some headers to decide big games in the past. Overlooked yesterday, I believe, because Fergie wanted/tried to show that it wasn't a tough game anymore and that they didn't have to play negatively as there was little threat from Liverpool.
Then came accross this "Last 7 games vs. Liverpool: 3 wins and 4 defeats. Every time we've won, Fletcher has started; every time we've lost he hasn't"

The point about Fletcher is a good one, and well made. I just don't believe that SAF leaving him out can be put down to the motives you're implying. That being said, I'm not sure why Carrick started and Fletcher didn't. But then, I can't even get a winning team going on Championship Manager.

I thought Fletcher was unwell?

[ ] The game against Arsenal in the FA Cup is a big game.

You think trophy-starved Arsenal think this? Seriously?

Will they still think this if they don't progress in the CL this week?

I certainly think that the FA Cup is a distant third when it comes to our present priorities.

We'll only know how important is is to AW when we see the team-sheet, but I expect a team at least half-full of squad-players, hopefully more than half-full if we progress in the CL tomorrow.

can we get the spam off this thread please?

In fergie we trust altho I do agree seems strange he has abandoned his 451 policy against the bigger teams

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12676378

David Gill questioned by Commons Committee - 'comfortable' with finances although obviously would prefer not to be paying £45m interest...

Net debt falling, slowly. Revenues up 150% since 2006.

There's also a comment about not tlalking to MUST, because they are 'at war' with the club. Seems somewhat harsh and potentially counter-productive. Feels like it comes from the Glazers.

In passing, is Saturday's game now a big one for Arsenal?

its a huge game for us - nevermind arsenal

I agree, Ralph didn't...

 

i would say that all things considered this is as important a game as the '99 FA cup semi final - in terms of the remainder of our season

He is but he's gotten it wrong so much in Europe. Do you think 2 champions leagues is enough with the sides he's built?

to be fair, that's not a bad point - we've struggled in Europe at times, but so have a lot of other clubs with a similar pedigree. Forest were the last team to win back to back European Cups and that was in the old KO days.

We've won it twice in SAFs reign, and were (well-)beaten finalists once. Barcelona have three in modern times, as do Real and AC Milan, but that's about it for multiple winners, so maybe 2 is enough, maybe not.

We've won a fair amount of other stuff during his reign though

It is of course a much bigger game for us now that we are out of the CL.

It'll be interesting to see how strong a team fergie puts out with Tuesday in mind.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/9421980.stm

like i said.............................

WHY MY POST WERE ALL CANCELLED??????????/

CANT I HAVE MY SAY??/??

Obv not, pretty harsh imo.  V,funny.

1999 and 2008? It's not like the same team has won it more than once. I'm not saying it's a poor record but with teams he's built it should be more.

you obviously have an agenda that is against acknowledging SAFs achievements, but consider this - he's built three Premiere League dominating teams, and two CL winning teams with the potential to make that three this year (if Barcelona FC is stricken by ebola virus)

and as said before - the days when Paisly could win three with the same team are gone, it's not just 5 matches, four home and away and a Final nowadays

But its ok for Rooney to elbow someone in the face which SAF brushes off and accuses the press of singling Rooney out?

Not excusing the tackle, it was poor, but the double standards are just rediculous.



Hoping for an all Manchester final now to keep the comp interesting

Essentially it is just 7 matches: last 16, last 8, last 4 and final.

The group stage of the CL is a meaningless money making vehicle for the big clubs.

All the fancied teams sail through woth no problems and usually play second or third stringers in the last 2 group games.

As much as I'm sure you'd love it to be, it's not personal. Knowledgeable Utd fans I know think you should have won at least one more European Cup, maybe two. I'm amazed you think two is all you should have achieved in 20 odd years.

Where I differ with Utd fans is on SAF's tactics. In 2008 no only did he have the best side but he went and shut up shop when he needed to. If this had been done mroe I'm sure some of the shockers away from home over the years could have been avoided.

sure said that

Ah so you agree then. Glad that's settled.

sure said that too

Easier to dodge I guess.

Best utd squad of all time

That played together as a squad? Or cross-generation?

both

Poor effort Ho. Not even Level 1 fishing.

Sigh I'm such a noob

Chelsea in the cl, possible semi v Inter. Barc/Madrid most likely other semi. Can be done imo.

Reaching Final - possible, verging on probable

beating Barca in a one-off game? Dreamlike

Could be a big turning point if Arsenal do their usual and bottle it

Whats Rooneys deal btw? The twat cant be happy even after a hattrick? still has to foam at the mouth and scream obscenities at a camera, fking enjoy urself, jeez.
I guess i should'nt be surprised the mr potata head should have a chip on his shoulder....


Also the ref had a decent game yday, very soft pen for Utd and Vidic somehow dosent get sent off.Wp Ref you had a stormer apart from that.

Totally disagree, he's had about a year of the papers and everybody saying he's shit etc and the pressure on him is huge, he hasn't had a good period but to doubt his abilities is just crazy. His first 2 goals where total class, yeah he shouldn't swear but I can totally see why he'd be like that.

Personally don't give a shit. We need a performance from him and we got one. If he's coming into form it couldn't be at a more opportune time. If we can somehow wrap the PL up soon by keeping up the pressure on Wenger's bottlers than we might just sneak past Chelsea and Inter.....

Yes poor Rooney he's had a horrid time, fuking some dirty prostitutes, throwing out his dummy and handing in a transfer request, playing like shit at the world cup and start of the season. How dare people say question him.

rooney what a chav

This is exactly what Mercedes thought when they took his car off him for promoting the wrong corporate image. LOL!

Pot-supporter calling kettle-supporters off-white?

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_mQQWt_oA4

It was a bad thing that Roonet did, but nobody died, nobody got punched...

Good results all round at the weekend - looking forward to Wednesday with great antcipation now

Lol so bitter. Haven't seen Bugatti recall their car from Gerrard have we?

gd post

LMAO  not bitter, just pointing out the irony of a Liverpool fan commenting on stuff like this.
 Oh and  Rooney's MB deal went two years ago in the credit crunch surely?

Yeh footballers whiter than white obv. Guy is young, the greatest player of his generation why wouldn't he have some faults like all genius's?

25 million for Ronney or 30 million for Andy Carroll with a drink problem

hmmmmmmm?

I wasn't saying poor Rooney, my point was I can understand his reaction after the frustrations of playing poorly for so long. I also don't get offended by the use of bad language as I am guilty of using it a lot myself so maybe it seems less of an issue to me.

George, Carroll was 35 million :) Also not sure how he has a drink problem because he likes to have a drink now and then, it never once got mentioned as an issue all the time he was here.

Heard a rumour that the injury he sustained was due to a night out in newcastle

Pretty sure it would be all over every single newspaper if there is any truth to it.

Obv bitter, nice video innit. Surely that same irony would apply to every fan who has had a player who hasn't behaved (ie all clubs)? lol
Nope - it went due to his the fact that he didn't fit in with their corporate image.

FWIW I'm also not offended by the use of foul language, It's more Rooney that offends me. Hes raking it in , doing something most people can only dream of, and does he ever smile when hes on the pitch? No, he goes round like the world is against him, he cant even celebrate a goal without having a temper tantrum. IMO hes just a complete and utter bellend.

Hahahahaha Levelaments

Google carroll bar stool. At least one newspaper ran with it.

Nope not a level

This is BS. Your a Liverpool fan therefore you don't like Rooney just as much as I'm a United fan and love him. It's the way things work. I'm sure if Gerrard has behaved in this way you'd be keeping your gob shut.

Rooney is a dick how can you like someone like him even if u support man u?


Tbh most star football players are all cockheads

As a Man u Fan I really couldnt care less what he's like off the pitch as long as he produces on it

You can take the chav out of Liverpool .....

Been charged, facing a 2 match ban.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11667_6852910,00.html

Thought Rooney was immense. He swore, oh ok.

Delusional if you're being serious

+1

Not a Man U fan, but if we're going to start doing players for this the game's just getting stoopid.

I think most people dont like Rooney regardless of who they support

Fair comment but I used to say Mascherano would be the sort of player I hate had he not played for Liverpool. Pretty sure some must think like this about Rooney.

Yep but ultimately u didnt hate him did you? Even tho he was a cock

I'm not doubting rooneys ability just think he is a twat

I thought this whole thread was a joke tbh but after reading this.



It just about sums man utd fans up. I havent really read this thread or the liverpool one but on the few bits I have looked at in that thread at some of the liverpool fans make some good points like the direction of the club/team for example.

All Utd fans do is say yeah we are the greatest blah blah blah. I can only think the highlighted statement is a wind up.

George has to be on the level, I'm a Rooney fanboy but that is stretching it a bit far. Quite clearly Collicini is the best player of our generation.

Sir Geoff Hurst says if you swear directly at a camera it should be a 5 game ban. I have to say i agree

If that's the case then someone who deliberately dives in with 2 feet and breaks someones leg must get a life ban.

Boring debate - Rooney transgressed and gets punished. Shame he couldn't have opted for a jury trial eh...

More fuel for Fergie to feed our great team with. Siege mentality and all that. WP the FA

The league is over you've won that. Don't see how banning the greatest player of his generation from an FA cup Semi Final against your rivals can be good news, siege mentality or not.

I'd expect him to get a one match ban. I think saying the title is won is a little premature too

Presumably just a level?

After what Gatusso got up to vs Spurs he only got a (I think, can't be arsed checking) 4 game ban. And swearing at an inanimate object should get more than headbutting a coach??

For me, swearing at a match official is far far worse and other players do it in every single game. Yes Rooney is a chav and many other things  and yes man U fans are very smug at times, doesn't make the punishment correct.

Get Paul McBride on the case IMO.

Good/great player, not the best of his generation, but v good.

Idiot of a man, awful piece of work.

2 game ban is harsh.

Partly blame Man U for not coming out and condeming him, fining him 2 weeks wages on the spot, FA would probably not have needed to act.

Could back fire on the FA, Rooney turns up for every friendly, will make him think twice.

Seems part of the appeal will focus on the intrusion onto the pitch by the cameraman. That in itself doesn't excuse the response, but if the rumour that the cameraman was asking Rooney to 'kiss the camera' then I'd say his response was pretty close to being appropriate and demonstrates a desire to rise above his chavvy image.

I feckin do now!

He's doing well to create a siege mentality at the most favoured club in Britain.

Just sheer class - Giggs take, and the pull back... and a perfect finish from Rooney

Sheer class

Do the morons who are booing Rooney's every touch think that's +EV?

Rooney misses 2 games. The greatest player of his generation will miss the FA cup semi final against rivals Man City.
You're Man United, You'll do what you're told.

abs joke

im going to write to teh FA everytime i see a footballer swear nea a tv camera

lol

[ ] result changing

[ x ] will be playing on May 14

You can do but that's not what Rooney did is it?


[ ] Disagree

Obv a blow but still think we have enough to best city. Lol at the haters. Gtfo

From http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/davidbond/2011/04/having_made_gigantic_losses_la.html

....Manchester United would comfortably comply with Uefa's regulations were they in force today. Despite making a £79m pre tax loss in 2010, that was mainly down to one off debt charges relating to the £500m bond refinancing and currency exchange rate swaps.

And the vast sums of money United generate as a football club (£300m according to Uefa's criteria and far more than any rival club) ensures that the regular debt repayments - totalling about £45m - are easily met.

Chelsea and Citeh will find it harder to comply apparently...

G.Nev signed to ss as common tater.

[ ] surprised

It will be interesting to see how he does, and whether the committed haters can be won over by him. I'd expect him to be far better as an analyst than most of the current crop.

Should be fun watching him cover a Liverpool match.

I am cancelling Sky Sports, can't believe they have done this.  ;frustrated;

Was probably wasted on you anyway

Agree. Don't care if you know where his loyalties lie as long as he's good and I'm fairly sure he will be.

Interesting. So it's going to be turnover vs debt? Pretty soft IMO.

I think it's a bit more complicated than that - I can't see anything wrong with the principle though; if you earn a lot of money through football you can have a higher level of debt; if your debt is currently being paid for by other sources - like your commercial side or from an owners pocket, you're going to have a harder time.

It's not just about loyalties as there are United players that i would have no problems with such as Giggs, Van de Sar, Carrick to name a few but Gary Neville is unbearable.

Obv it's more complicated than that. I just think if you can operate at a loss Coz you have good turnover then the rule is pointless. It should be based around profit.

For a normal company then I'd agree, I just think how they've arranged things is an acceptance that football isn't 'normal' business.

It also might just be a first step, although I doubt it, I think these regulations are just intended to provide a core stability to the finances - as long as a club has fundamentally sound finances then it doesn't matter too much if they take a bit of a loss.

Football is a fundamentally unprofitable 'business', so if an out and out profit were required there would be hardly any football clubs who would 'pass' the regulations.

Siege mentality FTW well done the FA.

:)

I see Scholes still hasnt mastered the art of tackling yet

Good losers imo

ty Liverpool

Isnt this worse?  Surely the fact a team earns more money from football shouldn't mean they then have more money to spend as this will just perpetuate the gap between the haves and have nots in football or am I missing your point??

Never easy

God no....

Barcelona midfielder Javier Mascherano, formerly of Liverpool, is in the sights of Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson.
Full story: Caught Offside

Heard Hamsik of Brescia was on the radar too. And Sneijder still.

Fyp

Sigh, what was I thinking.

How can a team in a champions league semi, playing infront of a boisterous (sp) crowd, not go out and least run around like crazed animals, fair enough they might not be good enough but that was almost criminal how they just stood and admired utd .

I believe we may have found the man to replace Scholes in the playmaker role...

go on then , who?

Anderson innit....

Never seen a semi so one sided..

It would be good to see Utd in the final :)

I think the worrying thing is that the final could be very similar to last night, the only difference being United are Schalke that night v Barca.

never again!

Fergie learns! - Besides a fergie mourhinio clash coould be interesting too!

Rooney ldo - gets better and better in the deeper position, plus he tackles better than Scholes  ;D

Disgusting scenes at the Bernabeu last night with players feigning injury, disputing decisions and getting involved in scuffles.

Only correct thing to do is to ban both clubs from the tournament imo

Yeah I hope you're right, Fergie would never approach the final the same way he did last time and hopefully we will come out of it much better this time around. I'm just not sure that there is anything that anyone can do against Barca really, they just seem to carve people open for fun.

That said United did look as good as I've seen for a while and hopefully that form will be repeated in the next 2 matches!!

Maureen has shown how to stop Barca. Whether Fergie will do it or not is another matter. Trying to out play them is folly.

gonna be a huge game a wembley

Get us some tickets Guy!

see what i can do - you prepared to pay more than face value? - not talking stupid money - cause i cant afford that  -  but if you are ill keep you posted

you a utd fan from leeds? oy vey

im a utd fan living in leeds but from the north west

Same as you- not stupid money but willing to paiiiiiii obv. Wouldn't wanna pay 2 grand to see us get thrashed by Barca tbh

Good night last night - thought Gibson and Anderson both showed more than glimpses of their talents and Valencia just gets better and better.

Smalling reminds me of the young Rio, his anticipation and ability to steal the ball without needing to make a tackle, but also the occasional lapse of concentration. Hopefully the lapses will be developed out of him.

Third CL Final in four seasons, not bad for a manager that was accused of having a poor record in Europe earlier in this thread.

Can we win it? Possibly, but Barca will obviously be favourites and it's going to take something special

This made me chuckle...


http://newsthump.com/2011/05/03/man-united-set-to-recall-howard-webb-for-crucial-chelsea-clash/

When you lose it'll be two CLs in 23 years? Pretty poor imo. Finals mean nothing.

so liverpool have had over a generation of meaningless league football?

Bitter at all?


Harsh, but fair comment

True but we're talking about your team.

Don't give a shit what you say. Fergie is a fkin legend. To take this current team to a final and still be top of the league is nothing short of amazing. Even if we end up with sweet FA we've overachieved with this squad.

How is it bitter to have an opinion that you should have won more CL titles? IMHO you've been the best side in Europe more than twice in the period we're discussing. Possibly as many as 5 times. It's a compliment to the sides Ferguson has built I just don't think he's been tactically brilliant in your past. In 2008 his tactics were bang on.

If you want to play that off as bitter than ok, pretty pointless trying to discuss this with you.

100% agree.

Not mathematically done but 19 on the way. Who'd have thought that 20 years ago. SAF is truly a legend/genius. What a manager.

And yes Barca are massive faves but who know's. Hernandez late winner mayhaps?

 ;karabiner; ;sexybanana; ;sexybanana; ;karabiner; ;karabiner;

Ji Sung Park is ridiculous. What an engine he has.

Agreed. And I'm a Liverpool fan ffs ;) Looking forward to the CL final.

(http://im.in.com/connect/images/profile/b_profile3/Jim_Laker_300.jpg)

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3LdMAqUMnM

'nuff said

(http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo151/outragous76/19.jpg)

Champions!

WD, especially since you never got a decision going your way this entire season :)

Just seen Liverpool are 7/1 to make the top 4 and a champions league place next year. For anyone struggling with the maths this means if you bet £10 on this then you stand to lose £10

I agree as far is the CL goes, it's qutie an achievement but I don't think you've overachieved in the prem.

rotflmfao


We got some that went our way -  most highlighted by Hansen on MotD last night
we got some that went against us  -  [ ] also mentioned on MotD

[  ]  There were decisons to be found which went against u, so MOTD could highlight them.. ;whistle;
[X]  Can of worms opened, which people will never agree on.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeFYMVqlLz0

Very much along the lines of the ones that Hansen chose to highlight

The conveyor belt keeps turning...

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5xFTyBHrjo

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13513703.stm

Question for United fans. Sorry if it has already been asked but I was having a argument with some Utd fans about it last night.

What do you think will happen when Ferguson retires. There does not seem to be a plan for somebody to take over. Should he be training somebody (Giggs?) for the job over the next few years or would you rather see Mourinho or somebody similar brought in.

Manchester United have only really been successful under Ferguson, but he has had to rebuild the team a few times and stay ahead of the game and the effect he has on the club is pretty clear. Before him they were really just another upper mid table side, although a well supported one. More than two thirds of their titles have been won with him as manager. Do you believe that it can continue without him or will the team slip back below the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool, who have both traditionally been more successful.

If your view of history starts in 1970

But three league titles in the 50's, which would almost certainly have been more bar the events of 6 February 1958,
Two titles in the 60's

oh and the first English Club to win the European Cup which was in 1968,

We've been more successful under SAF, but 'only really successful' under him?


As for the future - speculation abounds, but at a personal level I'd rather see a Brit than a foreigner, rather see someone with United connections than someone without, and definitely not Mourinho.

I agreed with everything right up till Mourinho!

You cannot deny him his record. He is an amazing man manager and has the personailty to handle a  job like manager at OT. The only reason he hasnt scooped everything in spain is that he faces the worlds best team, but give him a few years in the job he will get there.

You just cant knock Jose - the an is too good!

jose has nothing to gain at utd. if he wins everything people would just say that is off saf's years of hard work building the foundations. jose needs to go to liverpool,arsenal,city or chelsea who are also ran no hopers where his influence will be recognised

I was a fan of Mourinho during the better part of his tenure at Chelsea - not keen on the style of football he had them playing, but he brought something to the English game with his personality.

However, in the later days at Chelsea and subsequently he doesn't seem to me to be of the right 'stuff' for us.

SAF plays mindgames, but Mourinho goes too far, and seems to be losing the plot - the fuss around the game against Barca is a case in point

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/apr/28/jose-mourinho-real-madrid-barcelona

Not Officer Material



On a more pressing issue, the news that Giggs hasn't trained today is a real concern. All this bolox about super-injunctions and welsh tarts can't help his mental state.

Good last post. I just don't think UTD fans could accept his style of football and unlike at Chelsea, at UTD no one is bigger than the club.

I'm one of the few people that don't support Man U but likes Neville so will watch the testimonial tonight.
Also nice to see Beckham wearing 7.

Happy Anniversary everyone

So wasn't to be. To be fair I don't think any team in the world, including international teams, would be able to cope with the passing/movement of Barca. Simply unplayable. We could have turned it into a dirtier affair but that would mean getting near them. I know people were purring about Messi but for man of the match was Xavi. Incred.

All in all though, considering the team, we have had a great season. Now we need to spend to rebuild. Berba out. Need a striker imo and a couple of centre mids and obv a keeper. Ashley Young would be a decent signing imo. Wouldn't mind seeing Modric at United either. Whatever happens should be an interesting summer for a lot of clubs- Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City and Spurs will all be spending I imagine. Will we get 20 next year? Will be a lot tougher than this year methinks.

Would have been nice to sub Michael Carrick after 20 mins and bring on Roy Keane. Unfortunately that wasn't one of Fergie's options.

fyp

Crazy game. I expected Barcelona to have the edge obviously but to dominate like they did was incredible. It's a shame for Man U..

ON 606 this evening a United fan called in and suggested that MU needed Fergie to step aside to let someone else take over and, I kid you not, "take them to the next level".  I am pretty sure the next manager in charge will take them to the next level alright....but I doubt it will be a higher level!!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13600395.stm

Scholes retires. Legend.

True legend

Have always hated Man U, but i can't do anything but admire Scholesie. Legend

Scholes was always the footballer who GIQ.

To have been so instrumental in one of the top teams for so long and yet not get too big for his boots seems like quite an achievement now any clogger who scores a goal in the Premiership thinks they are the best thing ever.

Don't know how true this is as i haven't seen it for myself. My mate text me and said he was watching tele and they said Iniesta went up to Scholes after the game and asked for his top and he told Scholes that the barca team thought he was the best midfielder of the last decade!? Massive compliment if that is true.

Scholes was always hugely rated on the continent - Zinedine Zidane said he was the best player he ever played against.

6 Barca players asked to swap shirts with him I think.
Xavi and Iniesta both rate him hugely. They said if he was Spanish he would have received a lot more praise.

Was a great player and a top pro. Loved his tackling too.

One of the greats. Flawed as all greats are, but his ability to pick out and deliver passes over distance set him apart.

As did his goals in his heyday.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJF3j_5Ms24

flawed and ginger

Makes me laugh, everyday at the same time the Herbatron begins his trolling. Looking forward to the afternoon's entertainment.

hey dont doubt he was an excellent player but somethings you cant forgive.

and i think you may be missing some stuff, i'm up at 6am most days but usually bantering with red dog at that time of day or checking the fall out from the posts at 1am whilst in bed the previous night

Nah, i see it. but its usually just boring sensible stuff. You don't get burning til after lunch.

yeah just proper did it in the renting your place out thing. worse of all i did not know what i had  done wrong