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Poker Forums => The Rail => Topic started by: TightEnd on April 14, 2011, 10:55:43 AM



Title: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: TightEnd on April 14, 2011, 10:55:43 AM
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Book Review

The Mental Game of Poker

by Jared Tendler and Barry Carter

Sports psychologist Jared Tendler, was a wannabe Pro golfer then a mental game goach in the Golfing World before he switched to Poker in 2007. Assisted by Barry Carter, The Mental Game of Poker takes us through Tendler's work in giving as the book cover says “Proven strategies for improving tilt control, confidence, motivation, coping with variance and more”

Before I read the book I received an email from our very own Barry. This was just as well because the contents page on it's own looked daunting! The email said that the book was not meant to be a cover to cover narrative read, more to be used as a Mental Manual for Poker, where players would read the first part of the book, the necessary part for all readers, then dip into later stages that suited them and with the help of a Questionnaire focus where suited them best.

Encouraged, I started reading. The first point to note is that the detail in theories and case studies is superb. One without the other would not have worked. All theory and no application and there is merely a dry textbook. All Case Study and no theory, and the backbone to a player's potential improvement is not present. For what we have here seems to be an advancement on the traditional approaches to the Psychology of Poker espoused by Schoonmaker amongst others. Tendler explains as follows:

“If there were no way to control whether you play in “the zone” or go on tilt, my work as a mental game coach would be nothing more than blow­ing smoke up your ass. Tilting and playing your best happen for predict­able reasons and occur in predictable patterns. As a poker player, you profit from your ability to analyze the patterns and habits of your oppo­nents. Using the tools provided in this book, you will develop the ability to study the patterns and habits in your own mental game”

Tendler is convincing us that the Mental side of poker is as much a skill as any other facet of the game, and that factors such as tilt, fear, lack of motivation and lack of confidence are grounded in rational thought, and a player can improve their game by analysing the reasons and patterns for each.

Of course what really brings the book to life is the case studies. The testimonials to Tendler's work in the book are many and glowing. One such reads

“Jared is a genius when it comes to helping you both recognize and sys­tematically rid yourself of the issues that are getting in the way of reach­ing your potential. I don’t know where I would be today without him.”

The practical applications of the theories explained to the poker careers are intriguing, across a variety of poker disciplines.

The four chapters at the beginning of the book set the groundwork for what is to follow. Through an Introduction and Foundation chapter, three models are introduced. There follows sections on emotion and logic.

Once through those it is “pick and mix” time. For myself, with issues in my game around risk aversion and confidence, I delved into those two sections as they struck a chord. Others, on Tilt and Motivation, seemed less for me. For each of us, the longstanding behaviours we have learned and conditioned to will direct us to different parts of the book.

Immediately I was confronting areas that seemed very familiar. For example over-thinking sitations and a reluctance to go with gut instincts. Combine that with the Client Questionnaire in the Appendix and I was soon deep in thought on my mental couch. I began to see that I was, as Tendler refers to some players, a “mental game fish” and to appreciate that the approach is intended to provide a deeper solution that conventional poker psychology which  suggests combat­ing tilt or fear with general advice or approaches like deep breathing and taking breaks.

Is this a book for a very recreational player having fun down the pub? Possibly not. It needs a little time and application, to be frank. Is it a book for most other poker players? yes I think it probably is. Combining the theories and techniques from Tendler with a “human touch” supplied by Carter and the case studies creates a fascinating read. I wonder if Barry has patentted 'Barry's Take' for the sections where his musings try and explain some of the more complex concepts Tendler talks about in terms poker players understand?


 I'd recommend it.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: TightEnd on April 14, 2011, 10:58:09 AM
www.thementalgameofpoker.com is the website taking pre-orders for the book, 20% off I believe

blonde will also have a link offering the same deal once the pre-order period finishes

Barry has also kindly given blonde a couple of copies which I will use for MTT League prizes


Of course, interested in other views once people have read it 


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: AndrewT on April 14, 2011, 11:03:45 AM
As a follow-up book I suggest Barry writes The Physical Game of Poker, where he offers tips on how to move chips into the pot, how best to look at your cards, and the precise best point to punch someone in the face after they slowroll you.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: GreekStein on April 14, 2011, 11:06:19 AM
Original post was a joke, what a great book.

Jared Tendler is incred. [  ] So is DaveShoelace.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Chili on April 14, 2011, 12:09:20 PM
Sounds good to me, I'll give it a spin.  The mental aspect of poker is what intrigues me the most, and kicks me in the gut the most.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: snoopy1239 on April 14, 2011, 03:17:04 PM
Nice review. Haven't bought a poker book in a while, but might grab this one.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: MC on April 14, 2011, 06:42:37 PM
Def looking forward to reading this. I remember thinking "The Poker Mindset" was the best book I'd ever read a few years ago. This is in a similar vein only I'm sure it's much more comprehensive and advanced.  The table of contents looks very thorough.

Have had one coaching session with Mr Tendler so far (I tried to get some coaching from Mr Shoelace but he didn't think he was good enough :)) and he has a really succinct and articulate way of expressing his ideas.

"The Mental Game" is def an underestimated side of poker, can't imagine this not being really useful for any poker player...


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: bhoywonder on April 14, 2011, 07:22:01 PM
Jared is a reg on the cash plays podcast...well worth a listen.....


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on April 15, 2011, 11:04:08 AM
Thanks for the nice review Rich.

I don't really want to be spammy here because I love the forum, but if anyone has any questions about the book and its contents let me know. I might even get the main author, Jared, to come along and answer some questions, he has some popular well type threads on 2+2 & cardschat, so if there is a thirst for that let me know. I think Bhoywonder captures it best by pointing out the cash plays podcasts where Jared is a weekly guest, I think thats a great introduction to what the book is all about.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: AndrewT on April 15, 2011, 11:18:45 AM
I haz a question.

My biggest leak is the times when I'm in a situation where I know the other guy has it, and that I'm behind, but I either consciously go through the 'he might have AK' thought process, or by some kind of subconscious process/magic find myself clicking the call button, even though I know it's wrong.

Is this the sort of stuff that the book will help with?


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: silverslick on April 15, 2011, 11:27:43 AM
Andrew, that is the stuff he can help with.

I have heard him on podcasts and he also had a thread on 2+2. I have also seen some of the videos he has done. The ideas and thought processes he talks about can help with poker but also general life. He has interesting thoughts on goals, targets and motivation.

If I wait for the blonde link to buy do blonde get any benefit?


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: TightEnd on April 15, 2011, 11:28:22 AM
Yes, a percentage of the sale price.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on April 15, 2011, 02:50:59 PM
Andrew, yes that is exactly the sort of thing that is in the book, in fact I think we cover that specific issue. I don't have a copy with me so I don't quite remember how much detail we go into, but its there. If you check out the table of contents on the site that might give you an idea on some of the common issues covered.

And yes, Blonde will get a % of each sale after the pre sale is over, plus some free copies for the league, and I am sure we can wrangle in even more perks if there is enough interest.

I'm at DTD all weekend if anyone has any questions.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: donkeybob1 on April 15, 2011, 03:15:50 PM
Is this available now yeh? I might buy it, might help to improve my motivation to grind and goal set etc? Whats the best place to purchase it? Can you sign it for me pls Bazza?


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on April 15, 2011, 03:29:29 PM
Available for preorder, best place to buy it is the website in the OP, motivation is a massive section in the book so could be right up your street. Sadly no sections on how to deal with travelling round the world with Cos or not pissing over your laptop.



Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Jared Tendler on April 15, 2011, 10:47:32 PM
This is certainly a great way to be introduced to a forum. I should write a book more often.

Rich, thanks for the great review of the book. The sentiment you shared about the book was precisely it's intent and it's really gratifying to know that we delivered. I'm psyched for all of you to get a look at it, and welcome both your feedback and questions - both now and once the book is out.

I agree, the cashplays podcasts are a solid way for anyone who's interested to understand my brand of poker psych. I personally love answering questions - and that style of Q&Aing on those shows are fun for me, and more importantly the feedback I've gotten, players have found to be informative.

Andrew to your question - there's no magic to why you call in this spot - it happens for a predictable reason. The question is why. You're right it is a subconscious reaction, and in order to correct this problem, it requires understanding specifically why you call in that spot. Even though logically you know you're beat, why do you think you call in that spot. What's the logical - even if flawed - reason that you do. One of the things I wanted to show through the book, it there aren't any irrational or illogical problems in the mental game. Often problems appear that way, but it just means you haven't found the logic or the reason yet. If you'd like some advice before the book arrives, describe more details about the typical situations when this prob happens, what else you say to yourself before/after, and why you think you call. Then I'll help you break down the prob.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: TightEnd on April 15, 2011, 10:49:55 PM
Jared, a big welcome to blonde

Hope you stick around.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: AndrewT on April 15, 2011, 10:57:30 PM
Jared, thanks for taking the time to post on the night when the sky is falling on US online poker.

One hand that springs to mind recently.

I raise with TT in mid position. A 3bet effective shove (given stack sizes) from the SB from someone who I know is not mucking about/re-raising light at all. Really, really, straight-forward player. I know they have TT crushed. Yet I still call. 'Maybe they have AK?' goes through my mind. Yet I don't believe this, I know I'm dead. I still call.

Oh hi der KK.

Curiosity is probably one thing (by folding I get no confirmation my read was correct - by calling I get confirmation I would have been correct to fold, if that makes sense).


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: silverslick on April 16, 2011, 12:34:52 PM
Jared,welcome to Blonde. Have enjoyed the podcasts and look forward to the book. I find I have limited time to play and struggle to make it as effective as I would like. Trying to avoid being less results focused on individual sessions. Started keeping weekly records to help so I can look at my results over a longer period.

Any techniques you recomend to focus more on the quality of the play rather than results.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Jared Tendler on April 17, 2011, 02:20:28 PM
Appreciate that Rich.

I'd like to.

Jared, thanks for taking the time to post on the night when the sky is falling on US online poker.

One hand that springs to mind recently.

I raise with TT in mid position. A 3bet effective shove (given stack sizes) from the SB from someone who I know is not mucking about/re-raising light at all. Really, really, straight-forward player. I know they have TT crushed. Yet I still call. 'Maybe they have AK?' goes through my mind. Yet I don't believe this, I know I'm dead. I still call.

Oh hi der KK.

Curiosity is probably one thing (by folding I get no confirmation my read was correct - by calling I get confirmation I would have been correct to fold, if that makes sense).

Andrew, It is pretty amazing what can change in a day - doesn't change my job though. In some ways, when the sky falls a voice of sanity can help. So I'm happy share what I can.

To your question - it sounds like the problem is either two things: Dealing with uncertainty or not trusting your gut.

The reason I suspect the first - dealing with uncertain - is that if you were to fold in that spot, I wonder if it becomes hard for you to not get distracted by the desire to want to know what he was had. Is it? If so, part of what you have to do is review the situations more frequently after your sessions. Mark/note the hand and dissect it more after. That doesn't immediately help you, so in the short-term you're going to have to work harder to stay focused on making quality decisions, and gathering reads. Over time the combo will make it much easier for you to deal with uncertainty, because 1) you know more, 2) you know how to know more.

Regarding your gut. Basically the gut is the accumulation of all of your training reacting in the moment to the specific situation. If you've read Malcolm Gladwell's book "Blink" he calls it thin slicing. Another way to think about it is the mental equivalent of a physical reaction in sports - Rooney's bike goal wasn't planned, in the moment his skill set reacted and bam. Mentally it's the same thing, but often players don't trust their gut because they aren't really sure what it is. If you don't trust your gut, you don't trust your training. If you don't trust your training, then you need to become more conscious of how you're improving as a player.

Make sense - do it answer it for you? If not, post more details or what comes to mind now and I'll follow up with more.

[Note - Over the years, I've gotten better at answering questions on forums, but often some back and forth is needed before I can answer the question well enough for us both. The quality of my answer is dependent heavily on whether I have enough information. Sometime it takes a couples post to get there.]




Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on April 17, 2011, 02:31:44 PM
Congrats to my Yank chum for getting in a well executed Rooney reference


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Jared Tendler on April 17, 2011, 02:32:36 PM
Jared,welcome to Blonde. Have enjoyed the podcasts and look forward to the book. I find I have limited time to play and struggle to make it as effective as I would like. Trying to avoid being less results focused on individual sessions. Started keeping weekly records to help so I can look at my results over a longer period.

Any techniques you recomend to focus more on the quality of the play rather than results.

Thanks Silver - great to hear all around.

Do you think there's more pressure to have results because you don't have as much time to play. Basically, you always want to do well (win money) because you don't have a much opportunity as you'd like?

Couple thoughts that may help.

This can be a bit hard to wrap your mind around - but the quality of your play produces non-monetary results. Meaning that you can analyze the quality of how you played a session - the quality of every decision at the table - and the sum total is a result. The quality of your decisions are the result of the quality of your focus, the quality of your analysis of each opponent/situation, the quality of your tilt control, the quality of your ability to adapt, the quality of your ability to correct your mistakes, etc. These are just some examples of the specific components of quality play. If you identify the ones that are important to you, you can then rate yourself each time you play. That rating is essentially a result.

The reason I frame it this way, is that players often think results are a problem. They're not. It's the specific results that your focused on. In the short-term, you have much less control over money and winning. That's why it's a problem to be overly focused on those types of results. Which is why you want to be more focused on the things I mentioned, because you have 100% control over them.

Before your session/when you play - take each one of the things you're analyzing/rating afterwards - and make them into goals. I want to work hard to avoid tilt. I want to correct ______ weaknesses in my game. Since you're playing infrequently, I'd focus on one each time you play and make that the priority. Still rate yourself on the others, but then as you see certain aspects of what makes up quality play becoming worse - let's say focusing at the end of a session - you make it the priority.

Make sense? Clear? Help?


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: AndrewT on April 17, 2011, 02:53:41 PM
Thanks Jared.

Yes, I've read Blink, and know that 'gut feeling' is just the subconscious part of your brain having already analysed the situation and come to a decision, which is often right, which is what's so annoying - I know what the right decision is, but can't make it. So it's definitely the first part - I need to kill my curiosity. Also need to stay focused and not reach the time when I call out of laziness.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Jared Tendler on April 18, 2011, 03:48:26 PM
Thanks Jared.

Yes, I've read Blink, and know that 'gut feeling' is just the subconscious part of your brain having already analysed the situation and come to a decision, which is often right, which is what's so annoying - I know what the right decision is, but can't make it. So it's definitely the first part - I need to kill my curiosity. Also need to stay focused and not reach the time when I call out of laziness.

Ok, good, you know the theory side of things. At least that focuses you on correcting the flawed reasons you make this mistake - curiosity, and now also laziness. Are there any others? Now, you just have to make it a priority to correct these mental game mistakes, by keeping an eye out for when either shows up, and working hard to make sure you make the correct decision. Simple enough - the key was just finding out why, so you know what to look for and what to correct.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: GreekStein on April 18, 2011, 04:05:07 PM
Jared, did it mentally affect you working with Barry Carter?


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Jared Tendler on April 18, 2011, 05:35:54 PM
Jared, did it mentally affect you working with Barry Carter?

I've had to go to a psychologist myself. He seems nice enough, but wow;)


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on April 20, 2011, 09:30:56 AM
In light of the shit going down in the US, Jared released a big excerpt from the Fear section of the book, obv the clampdown doesnt affect anyone in the UK (but MC still thinks the world has come to an end) but obviously it still may be relevant to some:

http://jaredtendlerpoker.com/blog/excerpts-of-the-fear-chapter/

[ ] sure was a great time to release a poker book


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: kinboshi on April 20, 2011, 10:32:20 AM
A lot of these 'mental coaching' or 'pop-psychology' books are full of bollocks, but this one seems to be well focused and full of useful info - despite Barry's involvement.

Is it available in Kindle format?


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on April 20, 2011, 11:10:48 AM
A lot of these 'mental coaching' or 'pop-psychology' books are full of bollocks, but this one seems to be well focused and full of useful info - despite Barry's involvement.

Is it available in Kindle format?

Yes one of the biggest challenges we faced, prior to last weekend, was distinguishing this book from all the 'find your inner rainbow' bullshit thats out there. Jared is after all a licensed professional in this field but unfortunately some people will always hear 'mental coach' and think bullshit.

No plans for Kindle as yet we were planning that much later, however given the current US situation it may force our hand to either bring it out quicker, or delay it longer, depending on what materialises.

Kin - you know your Kindles well, how big an issue is piracy for kindle format books? I know ebook/pdfs are piss easy to pirate, are kindles protected in any way?


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: silverslick on April 20, 2011, 11:24:26 AM
Thanks Jared, appreciate the comments. I will give it some thought and try it out.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: kinboshi on April 20, 2011, 11:44:24 AM
A lot of these 'mental coaching' or 'pop-psychology' books are full of bollocks, but this one seems to be well focused and full of useful info - despite Barry's involvement.

Is it available in Kindle format?

Yes one of the biggest challenges we faced, prior to last weekend, was distinguishing this book from all the 'find your inner rainbow' bullshit thats out there. Jared is after all a licensed professional in this field but unfortunately some people will always hear 'mental coach' and think bullshit.

Bugger.  I was looking forward the chapter on helping me find my inner rainbow. 

Quote
No plans for Kindle as yet we were planning that much later, however given the current US situation it may force our hand to either bring it out quicker, or delay it longer, depending on what materialises.

Kin - you know your Kindles well, how big an issue is piracy for kindle format books? I know ebook/pdfs are piss easy to pirate, are kindles protected in any way?

I think piracy of books on the Kindle is in its infancy, yes there are books (thousands of them) that you can get, but the titles seem to limited.  Compare this to music, for example, where any artist is pretty much available and most of their stuff they've ever recorded.  However, I think it'll grow because of the ludicrous pricing for some titles.  There are quite a few instances where a book is more expensive in the Kindle format compared to the paperback - which is plainly ridiculous as the cost of getting that book to readers is far lower in electronic format (even if there is some initial cost getting the book into the Kindle format).

If you published an ebook as a PDF or something like that, I think it would be illegally distributed far more than it would be in a Kindle format.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: donkeybob1 on April 20, 2011, 12:51:47 PM
Pre-ordered the book last wk. When do i get it? Cheers.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on April 20, 2011, 02:00:49 PM
Pre-ordered the book last wk. When do i get it? Cheers.

Official release date is the 27th, so normally a few days after that though I just realised that the bleedin Royal wedding is probabaly going to delay it for us poms because there about 2 bank holidays after that date.

So dunno is the answer, the day you get it will also be the first day I get it. It will probably be the week after the 27th based on all the bank holidays.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: pokerfan on April 20, 2011, 08:12:38 PM
Is it an easy read Barry or is it full of big words n stuff ?

Any plans to give away signed copies a la Greenstein ?



Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on April 20, 2011, 08:30:07 PM
My job was essentially to simplify it, and given the only big words i know are essentially and simplify, its not too hard to follow.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: pokerfan on April 20, 2011, 08:39:59 PM
My job was essentially to simplify it, and given the only big words i know are essentially and simplify, its not too hard to follow.

Cheers Baz.



Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Jared Tendler on April 20, 2011, 09:27:04 PM
A lot of these 'mental coaching' or 'pop-psychology' books are full of bollocks, but this one seems to be well focused and full of useful info - despite Barry's involvement.

Is it available in Kindle format?

Yes one of the biggest challenges we faced, prior to last weekend, was distinguishing this book from all the 'find your inner rainbow' bullshit thats out there. Jared is after all a licensed professional in this field but unfortunately some people will always hear 'mental coach' and think bullshit.

Bugger.  I was looking forward the chapter on helping me find my inner rainbow.
 

Don't get too discouraged, I believe you'll still find your rainbow...it just won't be on our watch, lol. Great to hear you see that this book isn't the sunshine and make you feel good kind. That's been my goal since I got into the field, everything I'd been exposed to was the later, and didn't work for me. I wanted to find a way to provide clear answers to real people. The bottom line is the material needs to produce results - if it doesn't do that, feeling good about losing means you're living in a fantasy world.

No plans for Kindle as yet we were planning that much later, however given the current US situation it may force our hand to either bring it out quicker, or delay it longer, depending on what materialises.

Kin - you know your Kindles well, how big an issue is piracy for kindle format books? I know ebook/pdfs are piss easy to pirate, are kindles protected in any way?

I think piracy of books on the Kindle is in its infancy, yes there are books (thousands of them) that you can get, but the titles seem to limited.  Compare this to music, for example, where any artist is pretty much available and most of their stuff they've ever recorded.  However, I think it'll grow because of the ludicrous pricing for some titles.  There are quite a few instances where a book is more expensive in the Kindle format compared to the paperback - which is plainly ridiculous as the cost of getting that book to readers is far lower in electronic format (even if there is some initial cost getting the book into the Kindle format).

If you published an ebook as a PDF or something like that, I think it would be illegally distributed far more than it would be in a Kindle format.


Your take on the ebook market is precisely how I've been seeing it too, and the market is changing rapidly. Even just at the end of last year, Amazon was limiting how much an ebook could sell for, and they were taking 85% of the cover price. That's changed completely since Apple joined the market, so once the dust settles a bit with the launch of the book, we're definitely going to get on the ebook train. Just a question of how quickly, not if it'll happen.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Jared Tendler on April 20, 2011, 09:30:07 PM
Thanks Jared, appreciate the comments. I will give it some thought and try it out.

Yw. Feel free to post any questions that come to mind as you mull it over.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on May 03, 2011, 03:39:35 PM
Sorry its a bit late. Now anyone that uses the promo code 2011 will get 10% off the book AND blonde will receive a percentage of the sale.

If anyone has any problems with the code let me know.

Also Jared is still more than happy to answer your queries if anyone else has any.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Rod Paradise on May 03, 2011, 08:41:23 PM
Sorry its a bit late. Now anyone that uses the promo code 2011 will get 10% off the book AND blonde will receive a percentage of the sale.

If anyone has any problems with the code let me know.

Also Jared is still more than happy to answer your queries if anyone else has any.

Ordered already - can you retrospectively give blonde the %age? Not worried about the discount.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Jared Tendler on May 03, 2011, 08:54:06 PM

Ordered already - can you retrospectively give blonde the %age? Not worried about the discount.

Did you order it during or after the pre-sale?


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Rod Paradise on May 03, 2011, 09:34:36 PM

Ordered already - can you retrospectively give blonde the %age? Not worried about the discount.

Did you order it during or after the pre-sale?
Not sure, was the 21st April.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Jared Tendler on May 03, 2011, 10:56:53 PM

Ordered already - can you retrospectively give blonde the %age? Not worried about the discount.

Did you order it during or after the pre-sale?
Not sure, was the 21st April.

That was during the pre-sale (ended on the 26th) so you received 20% off. The books will start shipping tomorrow, I'm looking forward to see what you, and others who ordered it, think of it.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Ant040689 on May 04, 2011, 09:54:17 AM
Just bought this, my mental frailties with poker is all that really has stopped me from making it big time imo, so a borderline gay, great big hug due out to the authors of this if i do become a player. 


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: MC on May 05, 2011, 05:04:35 PM
Sorry its a bit late. Now anyone that uses the promo code 2011 will get 10% off the book AND blonde will receive a percentage of the sale.

Bought mine just now. Looking forward to getting it after just having an inspiring coaching session with Jared :)


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: George2Loose on May 05, 2011, 05:06:09 PM
Think I probably need this book more than most


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on May 05, 2011, 05:11:51 PM
Think I probably need this book more than most

There were actually several times when we were writing the book where I did actually think of you George - not because I think you are a terrible tilter, simply because I would think to myself "thats what George gets stick for (by me)"


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: MC on May 27, 2011, 02:57:34 PM
I'm only on Chapter 2 so far, but I'm confident this will be the best poker-related content I've ever read based on the first two chapters. Defo recommend it. :)



Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Boba Fett on May 28, 2011, 04:14:43 PM
Is this available to steal online yet?


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on May 28, 2011, 04:44:16 PM
Is this available to steal online yet?

A kindle version will happen but not for a while, whatever the date was going to be for it you have single handedly put it back another 6 months.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Boba Fett on May 29, 2011, 12:57:37 AM
Is this available to steal online yet?

A kindle version will happen but not for a while, whatever the date was going to be for it you have single handedly put it back another 6 months.
Lol, joking.  Think Im actually gonna order tomorrow mostly from the reviews Bedi has been giving it.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on May 29, 2011, 07:59:32 AM
Is this available to steal online yet?

A kindle version will happen but not for a while, whatever the date was going to be for it you have single handedly put it back another 6 months.
Lol, joking.  Think Im actually gonna order tomorrow mostly from the reviews Bedi has been giving it.
me too, I'm more worried when someone just asks 'is it available for kindle?', thats when I get paranoid lol.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: jjandellis on May 31, 2011, 03:02:52 PM
Is this available to steal online yet?

He was giving it away in DTD at the weekend  :o ;whistle;

All for a good cause though and a great gesture :)


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: AndrewT on May 31, 2011, 03:33:45 PM
Is this available to steal online yet?

A kindle version will happen but not for a while, whatever the date was going to be for it you have single handedly put it back another 6 months.
Lol, joking.  Think Im actually gonna order tomorrow mostly from the reviews Bedi has been giving it.
me too, I'm more worried when someone just asks 'is it available for kindle?', thats when I get paranoid lol.

What they mean is 'is it available for kindling?'


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: kinboshi on May 31, 2011, 04:01:04 PM
Is this available to steal online yet?

A kindle version will happen but not for a while, whatever the date was going to be for it you have single handedly put it back another 6 months.
Lol, joking.  Think Im actually gonna order tomorrow mostly from the reviews Bedi has been giving it.
me too, I'm more worried when someone just asks 'is it available for kindle?', thats when I get paranoid lol.

Sigh, I asked that - because I have a kindle and that's the format I buy 99% of books in now.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: outragous76 on October 22, 2011, 04:32:59 PM
 ;bump;

I have just finished reading the book, (as I am sure others have). I thought the thread worthy of a little bump............ and i have written a little review too!


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: outragous76 on October 22, 2011, 04:36:26 PM
Book Review - The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler (and, er,) Dave Shoelace


I am currently lying in a darkened room, cool flannel over my face, and feeling lost. For the second time in 3 short months Jared Tendler has stolen my poker libido!  Like most of you (probably) I love playing poker, unlike most of you today it is the last thing I want to do (even thou IT'S SUNDAY! Yey......ug!)

I have just finished reading "The Mental Game of poker" and in very simple terms, Jared has ripped the top off my head, attached a projector to it and screened the contents to me. He did this whilst reaching in, tearing out my soul, peeling it apart, showing me every layer, and all this whilst asking me " do you like what you see hear and feel?"
As a fully certified tilt patient, the answer is quite clearly, no!

Of course, this is merely the low point. This is simply the point of self-diagnosis. I already know it will get better.  The same thing happened 3 months ago after listening to a session between Jared and online poker player George2loose. In it he questioned George’s motivation for playing and whether his set goals were specific and realistic? Apparently, being the WSOP main event champion wasn’t his (nor my) best starting point. It seems silly now, but at the time the effect on my motivation to play meant I couldn't even be bothered to reach for the on switch on my PC! I told myself "Guy, you have won satellites into the main event three times and played it how many?......... Never! Let alone win the thing". Who was I kidding here?

Of course in my head,  " playing lots" and "winning enough to justifiably fund it" was my "goal," but what had been pointed out,  was that my goal was to fly to the moon, and I had bought a bicycle, 4 train tickets and was travelling in shorts and t-shirt! Jared wasn't telling me (or George) I couldn't make it to the moon, but what he was telling me is that booking a flight a Cape Canaveral might be a better starting point!

This was one tiny dawning realisation (goal setting and achievements) that had made me question why I even played. The happy ending to the story above is I have re-plotted my poker journey, I have set different goals, and if truth be told, a more positive me and a little bit of positive variance later (upswooonnnggggg), has seen me achieve the first few goals  and I feel well on the way to hitting  the others!

So, shortly after getting back into the game, the little devil on my shoulder told me "go on, buy the book"! The devils little helper and book co-author Barry Carter even offered to post it to me! So 3 days before my holiday, the book arrived and was packed away with the iPod and sun glasses for beach time "relaxation"!

What becomes apparent very quickly is that this isn't just a book that you are going to read (in a traditional sense). This is very much a book where after reading the work starts. I guess how where and why you do it will be personal preference, but for me, reading it cover to cover and then going back to do the work is the approach I have taken. However, in going back to the book I will read sections as I look to address each area in turn (sadly I have much to address).

In highlighting, what can only be described as weaknesses in your game, your mental game that is,  the book does an excellent job of letting you know that you are not alone, but far more importantly offers both logical and comprehensible explanations for these issues, and of course solutions for eliminating them moving forward. Everything in the book is explained very well, leaving no doubt as to what is required by the reader to move forward to eliminate the problems! Jared is also candid. This is not going to be an on/off switch quick fix, these will be measurable moving improvements, with no doubt some “raging monkey tilt” setbacks along the way. But progressive improvement is a fundamental cornerstone of the book, as is on-going review and self-assessment.

It must be said that the book is comprehensive in covering the majority of “mental game issues” and certainly includes some I hadn’t even considered as being mental game problems. The content is brilliantly laid out making it an easy read (well I’ll come back to that in a moment). It’s an easy read in terms of usability. It would have been so easy for this book just to be a jumbled mess, especially with so much cross over between various issues. However the well thought out structuring of the book, particularly with thoughts of its eventual practical use (rather than initial read), has led to the production of a wonderfully presented text.  In terms of the “easy” read, this book can make you feel uncomfortable at times; I guess highlighting weaknesses can do that. I’m not ashamed to admit that I put it down for a few days at one point to digest what I had already read and take a little time out!

 In breaking down the different types of tilt, I believe it makes this book a ground breaking piece of "must have" poker literature for any serious player. Every player has some form of mental game weakness and now that games have undoubtedly got tougher, people need to expand their own boundaries to find their edge (and eliminate weaknesses). One small negative from a personal perspective, that as a non-professional player, whilst reading, at times I didn't feel like the book was written for me. It occasionally felt like it was maybe a grinders bible (which it doubtlessly is), but having revisited some sections,  I have changed my mind it was more apparent that the sections where I felt this way, were areas which didn't need addressing in my game (motivation for example). Also as I don't rely on poker for a living there are some pressures discussed in the text which I will never face.

Another great feature of this book is that despite the current dark room and cold compress, the book leaves you fully motivated to fix the leaks in your mental game. My current lack of desire to play, I already know will be short lived. As soon as I start the work on fixing my weaknesses, I will be keen to see the improvements in action. The great news too is that some of the "fixes" are really simple. It is like Jared opens a door in the dark corner of your mind, which you have an inert fear of opening, and all he does is bring a torch and show you that there really is nothing to fear. In doing so, you gain some useful space, and have less fear in approaching those other dark places. I'm sure that there will be people who "don't need to read no mumbo jumbo psycho babble", but they really will be missing out. My advice to any serious player would be to read this book with an open mind and be prepared for some shocks and pleasant surprises! Also, don't skip anything first time through. I very nearly missed a section which I genuinely felt wasn't relevant. Not only did this turn out to not be the case, but several problems are interlinked and can be (should be) worked on simultaneously. My approach has been to highlight all relevant weaknesses, score them 1-10 and then head back to fix them (10's first, not the method I would have ordinarily taken).

Another side benefit of the book is that it's principles can also be applied to real life too. I have struggled with a personal matter for over 2 years and I could instantly recognise a direct comparison in the book. I will be applying the theory to my real life too!

In what can only be described as a seminal piece of work, Jared has redefined the mental game of poker. The likes of Schoonmaker have been surpassed, in that this book is your personal tool toward improvement of your own mental game rather than just trying to understand the core psychology behind why opponents might do things. More importantly, and again where this book towers above the rest, this isn’t a short term fix to manage tilt like many before it, but rather a long term cure. There are few players who can truly say that they will not benefit from Jared’s work.

On one level, The Mental Game of Poker is an interesting and thought provoking read, very funny in parts as you laugh at recognising yourself and your opponents on the page, and also some excellent use of poker friendly terminology (raging monkey tilt being my favourite surprise!)

Deeper down, if you choose for it to be so, this is your very own semester of sessions with Jared, opening you up, ironing you out and neatly putting you back together. But of course like any subject YOU need to put in the work to get best results! Not only that but it's a great reference tool which you can go back to time and again!

I recommend you buy this book. What you do with it from there is your own decision, but don't let fear of discovering you own faults be the reason that it collects dust!


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Graham C on October 22, 2011, 05:20:08 PM
Out for Kindle too I see.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on October 22, 2011, 05:33:29 PM
Thanks Guy, reviews like that really beat the shit out of any other form of marketing we could do.

Silo - yes the book has been available on most of the major ebook formats for about three weeks, apologies for the long wait on that one but we had some serious formatting issues which we hadn't prepared for (what with being noobs to publishing and all).


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: TightEnd on October 22, 2011, 05:51:15 PM
Awesome review

New purchasers..blonde link please!


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelac
Post by: Leatherman on October 23, 2011, 04:54:36 PM
Recieved the book a couple of days ago, although Barry forgot to sign it... ;-)


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelac
Post by: smashedagain on October 23, 2011, 05:32:00 PM
Recieved the book a couple of days ago, although Barry forgot to sign it... ;-)
so your copy may actually be worth more :)


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: dreenie on October 24, 2011, 04:10:28 PM
I clicked the link in this Thread - not sure if that's the blonde link or not. The book should be shipped to my address within 48 hrs, can't wait to read this one, heard very good things about it :-)


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on October 24, 2011, 05:50:00 PM
I clicked the link in this Thread - not sure if that's the blonde link or not. The book should be shipped to my address within 48 hrs, can't wait to read this one, heard very good things about it :-)

Yep it linked up fine, book is in the post first thing in the morning so will be with you Wednesday, thanks very much


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Jared Tendler on October 25, 2011, 07:10:00 PM
;bump;

I have just finished reading the book, (as I am sure others have). I thought the thread worthy of a little bump............ and i have written a little review too!

That's one hell of a little review. It's really satisfying to read how my (and a few of barry's) words have properly infiltrated your mind, and properly recalibrated it.

Thanks so much for posting your review. Honestly, having a hard time coming up with words, it's just amazing to read after working nearly two years on it, to see how much you got what we were trying to do, and that it's helped so much already.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: kinboshi on October 25, 2011, 08:18:00 PM
Only found out it was now available on the kindle today from two blokes on twitter (some Yank and a mad Yorkshireman), so will be purchasing very soon.

Great review Guy, just hope the book's a little shorter...


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: dreenie on November 14, 2011, 04:45:55 AM
I'll start by being honest with u, when the book got delievered, it sat in the packaging for 7 days, it was a feeling of I knew it was there and I knew I needed to read it, yet it was kinda scary at the same time, like trying to face up with your weaknesses, so I started to read it, and the first couple of chapters it has sent me cold at times, as it represents how I feel a lot of the time - pretty scary to be that accurate.

When I sat down to play tonight, I felt a little more confident, and although I haven't read the book in full, I still felt a little refreshed and up for the challenge to play better/with more confidence.

It started out ok, but as the day progressed, I tilted like no other, a key point in this was when I lost a 200k top 3 stack in the Warm up with KK vs AA, and was out before getting paid, it wasn't so much of tiltness/anger after this happened, it was not having the desire to continue in the other comps I was playing, and feeling like I lost the desire to win/try to battle on after this cooler happened.

This has happened a lot lately, my confidence is pretty much at an all time low, and I'm seriously questioning 'is this what I want to continue doing?' I don't think I could go back to playing casual poker and working in a different job, for me it would be all poker or none at all.

Right now, I'm dissapointed with myself for the way I handle these things, and just felt the need to post this. Will still carry on reading the book tho, and hopefully it will help me in the future.

The book itself is easy to read, and makes so much sense, and is way too real for the majority of poker players wanting to tackle there 'weaknesses. A big thumbs up on it.

Dreenie


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: smashedagain on November 14, 2011, 12:55:52 PM
wish i had thought of you when we put George forward to do the session with Jared. Not that George did not need / desreve it but i think you may have just put Jared and Dave into a mental institution. :)


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: vegaslover on November 14, 2011, 01:05:50 PM
wish i had thought of you when we put George forward to do the session with Jared. Not that George did not need / desreve it but i think you may have just put Jared and Dave into a mental institution. :)
POTD ^^^ ;D
Pretty sure that Jared been in said institutions many a time though.

One year I may get round to writing a review of the book myself. Gotta get off my fkn butt and actually finish reading it first


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: George2Loose on November 14, 2011, 02:03:10 PM
Glad it was me.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: kinboshi on November 14, 2011, 02:14:00 PM
Only found out it was now available on the kindle today from two blokes on twitter (some Yank and a mad Yorkshireman), so will be purchasing very soon.

Great review Guy, just hope the book's a little shorter...

Eventually got round to buying this today.  Looking forward to starting reading it later...


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: hombre32 on November 27, 2011, 08:52:15 AM
Was looking to purchase this as a STOCKING FILLER for Xmas. I have looked at Amazon who are out of stock, and looked on Waterstones & WHSMITH but cannot find a copy.

Can anyone show me where I can pick up a copy?


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: mulhuzz on November 27, 2011, 09:20:53 AM
Was looking to purchase this as a STOCKING FILLER for Xmas. I have looked at Amazon who are out of stock, and looked on Waterstones & WHSMITH but cannot find a copy.

Can anyone show me where I can pick up a copy?

https://mentalgameofpoker.com/node/3


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: hombre32 on November 27, 2011, 10:44:01 AM
Thankyou- just ordered it!


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on November 27, 2011, 11:07:59 AM
Amazon are not actually out of stock, thats  a rather annoying error on their part we are trying to sort - you can still buy it from the 'new' tab and it gets shipped by Amazon


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: hombre32 on November 27, 2011, 12:04:38 PM
Agreed it is annoying, particularly when it is on a lot of Poker Players XMAS list and most relatives will naturally use Amazon as a source of purchase.

Really looking forward to the opening chapter after a belly full of Turker and BBC repeats!


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Acidmouse on December 02, 2011, 01:07:15 PM
£7.12 on Kindle! bought it last night and read 30+ pages, I have taken a vow not to play any poker until I have read this and go through my huge mental flaws. It's already giving me encouragement and hope on what I have read. If I get nothing more out of it I will be happy.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: cambridgealex on December 02, 2011, 01:19:14 PM
Top of my list :)


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Sulphur man on February 24, 2012, 03:09:42 AM
Love this book purchased it shortly after reading this review some months back. Nicework tighty.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on June 07, 2012, 12:50:13 PM
BUMP

Thanks to Rich for allowing my shameless spam.

The book came out as an audio book a couple of weeks back, on iTunes, Amazon, and Audible. Jared is narrating 99% of it, you get to hear yours truly for all of about 3 minutes.

You can actually get the book for free, if you sign up to Audible through Amazon on a 30 day trial (And then cancel within the 30 days). Just follow this link and click on the free 30 day trial button http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Mental-Game-Poker-Strategies/dp/B0085Y5WTM/ref=tmm_aud_title_0

Also, I'm gonna give a couple of softcover copies away at the Blonde Bash this weekend, not sure what the criteria is yet, but will involve people being nice to my Mum (not in an Amatay way) who is playing her first ever live poker game.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: TightEnd on June 07, 2012, 01:21:16 PM
Thanks Barry

You can tell us, your Mum is a ringer, right? Complete poker shark?


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on June 07, 2012, 01:25:51 PM
Yeah she is about as good as I am


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: mondatoo on June 07, 2012, 01:26:27 PM
BUMP

Thanks to Rich for allowing my shameless spam.

The book came out as an audio book a couple of weeks back, on iTunes, Amazon, and Audible. Jared is narrating 99% of it, you get to hear yours truly for all of about 3 minutes.

You can actually get the book for free, if you sign up to Audible through Amazon on a 30 day trial (And then cancel within the 30 days). Just follow this link and click on the free 30 day trial button http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Mental-Game-Poker-Strategies/dp/B0085Y5WTM/ref=tmm_aud_title_0

Also, I'm gonna give a couple of softcover copies away at the Blonde Bash this weekend, not sure what the criteria is yet, but will involve people being nice to my Mum (not in an Amatay way) who is playing her first ever live poker game.

 rotflmfao


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: welsh1980 on June 07, 2012, 01:41:34 PM
Just got it on kindle


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Gemini Kings on June 08, 2012, 12:35:11 AM
Downloaded it a couple of weeks ago on my Kindle. Haven't got around to reading it yet. Must put it on my mental To Do List!


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: ManuelsMum on June 22, 2012, 03:20:11 PM
As a follow-up book I suggest Barry writes The Physical Game of Poker, where he offers tips on how to move chips into the pot, how best to look at your cards, and the precise best point to punch someone in the face after they slowroll you.

Good post.

I haven't read this book so I was trying to figure out what it's about. I've seen books on the 'Psychology of Golf' (The Mental Game of Golf?) and it's saying that various mental factors like self-esteem, perseverance, calmness can affect your game as much as your physical swing etc so these need to be understood and corrected where necessary. So...does this book take that process, and apply it to Poker (in a way that could be done with any other 'sport') I guess.
I suppose this is different from what I'd call 'Psychology applied to Poker'....Poker being obviously a psychological process in essence more than anything else I can think of, and poker players 'doing psychology' (in a sense) while playing the game. If there's so much psychology involved, then the robust findings of psychology could be applied to it I guess. I'm thinking it's not part of this book (although I did see a response to Andrew's question about 'trusting the gut/subconscious process'). I've actually never seen a book that deals with poker in this way, I'm sure they're out there though.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Jared Tendler on June 22, 2012, 08:55:04 PM

I haven't read this book so I was trying to figure out what it's about. I've seen books on the 'Psychology of Golf' (The Mental Game of Golf?) and it's saying that various mental factors like self-esteem, perseverance, calmness can affect your game as much as your physical swing etc so these need to be understood and corrected where necessary. So...does this book take that process, and apply it to Poker (in a way that could be done with any other 'sport') I guess.
I suppose this is different from what I'd call 'Psychology applied to Poker'....Poker being obviously a psychological process in essence more than anything else I can think of, and poker players 'doing psychology' (in a sense) while playing the game. If there's so much psychology involved, then the robust findings of psychology could be applied to it I guess. I'm thinking it's not part of this book (although I did see a response to Andrew's question about 'trusting the gut/subconscious process'). I've actually never seen a book that deals with poker in this way, I'm sure they're out there though.

Yes, this book is comparable to the books you've seen in golf, or other sports, and applies it to poker. As you said, mental factors impact performance in physical sports and the same occurs in poker. It's funny you mention golf, as I actually come from a golfing background. I was an aspiring professional, played in 4 years in college - three-time All-American, and was derailed in my early 20's because I was choking under pressure. I went looking for answers in the traditional golf psychology that was available at the time (late 90's) and while I played better most of the time, I actually still kept failing under pressure. Determined to find an answer I dove into psychology and have spent the past 10 years getting educated (Master's in counseling psychology), working with golfers (over 300 including several PGA and LPGA tour players, and for the last 5 years working with poker players. Btw, in the middle of my working with golfers, I solved my problems and started playing professionally - shot a 63 in a big cash game at my club.

When I made the transition from coaching golfers to poker players, it was remarkable how similar the psychological issues are. The book is based around my experience working with poker players on issues with tilt, motivation, focus, fear/anxiety, handling variance, etc. It includes stories from 9 clients, including Barry, who share how my methods helped them improve their mental game problems, and play better.

The info in the book around the gut, comes from other material in here around learning. Learning isn't the sexiest thing to talk about, but interestingly, many mental game issues are created from inaccurate beliefs about the learning process. Plus, this information actually helps you to learn technical skills in poker easier too.

Hopefully I've answered your question about the book, but if there's anything else you want to know, let me know.
 


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: ManuelsMum on June 23, 2012, 01:17:57 PM

I haven't read this book so I was trying to figure out what it's about. I've seen books on the 'Psychology of Golf' (The Mental Game of Golf?) and it's saying that various mental factors like self-esteem, perseverance, calmness can affect your game as much as your physical swing etc so these need to be understood and corrected where necessary. So...does this book take that process, and apply it to Poker (in a way that could be done with any other 'sport') I guess.
I suppose this is different from what I'd call 'Psychology applied to Poker'....Poker being obviously a psychological process in essence more than anything else I can think of, and poker players 'doing psychology' (in a sense) while playing the game. If there's so much psychology involved, then the robust findings of psychology could be applied to it I guess. I'm thinking it's not part of this book (although I did see a response to Andrew's question about 'trusting the gut/subconscious process'). I've actually never seen a book that deals with poker in this way, I'm sure they're out there though.

Yes, this book is comparable to the books you've seen in golf, or other sports, and applies it to poker. As you said, mental factors impact performance in physical sports and the same occurs in poker. It's funny you mention golf, as I actually come from a golfing background. I was an aspiring professional, played in 4 years in college - three-time All-American, and was derailed in my early 20's because I was choking under pressure. I went looking for answers in the traditional golf psychology that was available at the time (late 90's) and while I played better most of the time, I actually still kept failing under pressure. Determined to find an answer I dove into psychology and have spent the past 10 years getting educated (Master's in counseling psychology), working with golfers (over 300 including several PGA and LPGA tour players, and for the last 5 years working with poker players. Btw, in the middle of my working with golfers, I solved my problems and started playing professionally - shot a 63 in a big cash game at my club.

When I made the transition from coaching golfers to poker players, it was remarkable how similar the psychological issues are. The book is based around my experience working with poker players on issues with tilt, motivation, focus, fear/anxiety, handling variance, etc. It includes stories from 9 clients, including Barry, who share how my methods helped them improve their mental game problems, and play better.

The info in the book around the gut, comes from other material in here around learning. Learning isn't the sexiest thing to talk about, but interestingly, many mental game issues are created from inaccurate beliefs about the learning process. Plus, this information actually helps you to learn technical skills in poker easier too.

Hopefully I've answered your question about the book, but if there's anything else you want to know, let me know.
 

That sounds great Jared, I can't wait to read this book.

I've read a fair bit on golf and have played all my life, and remain pretty bad, due to slice issues with any club above a 5 I. It's really expanded my knowledge of different types of trees :) I even have an indoor golf system, the Launchpad one, not sure how it rates amongst decent golfers though.

I've looked a little bit at the theories on the mental game, learning, etc. Tbh it looks like a bit of a minefield. With so many competing theories, how do you go about picking the right one when you're writing a book?


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Jared Tendler on June 25, 2012, 02:51:29 PM

That sounds great Jared, I can't wait to read this book.

I've read a fair bit on golf and have played all my life, and remain pretty bad, due to slice issues with any club above a 5 I. It's really expanded my knowledge of different types of trees :) I even have an indoor golf system, the Launchpad one, not sure how it rates amongst decent golfers though.

I've looked a little bit at the theories on the mental game, learning, etc. Tbh it looks like a bit of a minefield. With so many competing theories, how do you go about picking the right one when you're writing a book?

Excellent, look forward to hearing what you think!

Very good question about which theories to pay attention to. You're right there are a lot of competing theories out there and I know the task as a consumer is hard. You aren't sure what works and very often choose strategies that don't work. One of things experts provide is that they not only get you to focus on the right things, they also allow you to ignore the rest. This true in any field, including poker strategy.

When it came time to write the book I selected the material that proved, over a large sample, that it created permanent improvement with a large number of people. Plus, it had to be straightforward/user friendly to implement. How did I know what worked? Experience, both with my master's education, direct work with clients, and personal golf performance. Variance in the mental game exists in the form of a placebo - a fake pill or medicine used to test the effectiveness of a new drug. In the mental game, focus can be a placebo. By focusing on something more, often it improves just from that extra attention. If you focus on not tilting as much, many players will improve just from that fact alone. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what the advice is, if it gets you to focus, you'll improve. Many theories and advice in the mental game fail to pass this test. They fail to prove that they can create permanent structural improvements in a players mental game, rather than something just temporary. Finding permanent solutions has been my guiding motivation since my golf days, and so I've been testing theories, including my own, to this standard for the past 8 years. When it came time to write the book, I selected the ones that truly stands out among the rest.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: vegaslover on June 25, 2012, 08:25:15 PM

That sounds great Jared, I can't wait to read this book.

I've read a fair bit on golf and have played all my life, and remain pretty bad, due to slice issues with any club above a 5 I. It's really expanded my knowledge of different types of trees :) I even have an indoor golf system, the Launchpad one, not sure how it rates amongst decent golfers though.

I've looked a little bit at the theories on the mental game, learning, etc. Tbh it looks like a bit of a minefield. With so many competing theories, how do you go about picking the right one when you're writing a book?

Excellent, look forward to hearing what you think!

Very good question about which theories to pay attention to. You're right there are a lot of competing theories out there and I know the task as a consumer is hard. You aren't sure what works and very often choose strategies that don't work. One of things experts provide is that they not only get you to focus on the right things, they also allow you to ignore the rest. This true in any field, including poker strategy.

When it came time to write the book I selected the material that proved, over a large sample, that it created permanent improvement with a large number of people. Plus, it had to be straightforward/user friendly to implement. How did I know what worked? Experience, both with my master's education, direct work with clients, and personal golf performance. Variance in the mental game exists in the form of a placebo - a fake pill or medicine used to test the effectiveness of a new drug. In the mental game, focus can be a placebo. By focusing on something more, often it improves just from that extra attention. If you focus on not tilting as much, many players will improve just from that fact alone. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what the advice is, if it gets you to focus, you'll improve. Many theories and advice in the mental game fail to pass this test. They fail to prove that they can create permanent structural improvements in a players mental game, rather than something just temporary. Finding permanent solutions has been my guiding motivation since my golf days, and so I've been testing theories, including my own, to this standard for the past 8 years. When it came time to write the book, I selected the ones that truly stands out among the rest.

Just get the book and read it ManuelsMum.

It will open your eyes to things that will not have even contemplated before. It is very easy to read and flows very well, nothing like your standard psychology texts which are basically good for helping with insomnia.

It's not a 'how to' book, but crucially gets you to think for yourself how various mental issues affect you as an individual and imo you get the most benefit by regularly reading and reviewing sections several times and relating it to 'spots' you come across whilst playing


Title: Reviews of The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler on Amazon.com
Post by: johnkeen on March 15, 2013, 11:08:24 PM
I am thinking of buying this book on Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/The-Mental-Game-Poker-Strategies/product-reviews/0615436137/ref=pr_all_summary_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

I have had a look through all of the pages and wonder if anyone has an opinion on the reviews on there. Thanks


Title: Re: Reviews of The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler on Amazon.com
Post by: Dewi_cool on March 16, 2013, 12:00:06 AM
Try Barry Carter on here he might have an opinion


Title: Re: Reviews of The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler on Amazon.com
Post by: craigbetts on March 16, 2013, 12:16:56 AM
simples, just buy the book, i have gone on a huge upswong since it has sat on my bookcase, the likes of dooby wooby on here have taken down GUKPT's after Ft'ing Sunday majors all on the back of using this book as a mouse mat!

unless you are a plant, it is a no brainer! it pays for itself.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: TightEnd on March 16, 2013, 07:37:13 AM
Hi Johnkeen, when the original came out I wrote the review that is on the first post of this thread

I thought it was a decent review!


Not sure if you are aware, but the second book is on pre-order now. I hope to review that too and have some copies for blonde competitions etc


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on March 16, 2013, 07:40:06 AM
Hi John,

I'm the less important coauthor.

As you can see this thread has been merged with a wider discussion that has taken place , so it might answer what you need to know.

Is there anything about the reviews that concern you? A few people have voiced concerns they don't believe the sheer amount of positive reviews but I can assure you they are genuine.

If you have any specific questions about the book -fire away, I'm a regular here.

Cheers

Barry Carter


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: johnkeen on March 16, 2013, 08:35:48 AM
Hi John,

I'm the less important coauthor.

As you can see this thread has been merged with a wider discussion that has taken place , so it might answer what you need to know.

Is there anything about the reviews that concern you? A few people have voiced concerns they don't believe the sheer amount of positive reviews but I can assure you they are genuine.

If you have any specific questions about the book -fire away, I'm a regular here.

Cheers

Barry Carter




Thank you, Tightend, Craig, Dewi and Barry for your replies.
I look forward to reading the review of the next book, hopefully just as succinct.

I have to admit to being curious about some of the reviews on Amazon, Barry. I leave myself

open to be convinced about them.
There are a large number of positive reviews, yes, and there are a large number of 'thumbs

up, this review helped me' attached to some of them, which I think promotes some of them in

the ranking. There have also been some negative reviews, some of which attack the legitimacy

of the other reviews, these were at first replied to by the author, and now have been

removed from Amazon completely.
I suppose it depends a priori on what you classify as a legitimate review to begin with,

although from your post your positive tone seems to suggest that you're saying that the

reviews are definitely all what they seem to be: positive, independent reviews by random

individual readers, unsolicited by the authors or anyone else, and for the most part

unconnected with the authors.
To me, and this is obviously pure opinion and nothing more, the reviews do not seem to be

legitimate.
-the tone and style of the reviews are not what one would expect at all from random

purchasers. They seem to be written in a marketing style, as if purely selling the book,

with hyperbole about the content and results.
-some of the reviews, if you look closely, appear to contain certain nuances which would

suggest they are from the same author. Very obviously some reviews are going to contain the

same style, by accident, but there are some peculiarites that seem to be more than

coincidental.
-that most of the five star reviews have been written by users who have reviewed no other

book. This is despite the reviewer stating that they have read many other poker books. I

guess they've all decided to shy away from Amazon but for this purchase (before and since

purchasing this book)
-that a very high proportion (the majority, like 8, five-starred reviews?) are all submitted

within one week of the 8th of June 2011. By some strange coincidence, four reviewers all

decided independently to submit their reviews on 8th of June 2011 itself.

On the face of it (and I very much look forward to being corrected), the reviews do not seem

to be what they present themselves to be, what they are supposed to be, or, in my opinion,

what they have to be for that kind of review section to work.
I did a bit of reading around the whole idea of this, there is quite a lot of discussion on

the web relating to this whole idea. Where it does occur (and I'm not saying it has here,

just my opinion of how it looks), it is called Sock-puppetry, and there was a large storm on

Amazon and in the press a while back where it emerged that a significant number of authors were fabricating reviews, submitting them alongside their title on Amazon, creating a fraudulent impression in a prospective buyer of independent popularity of the title. Simple system...buyer does not know book nor author, sees a ton of positive reviews, hands over their twentyfive quid, author is delighted, buyer is left crying into the pulp that does not seem to live up to the hitherto=thought independent hyperbole. The authors were also caught, and admitted to, submitting concomitant negative reviews about books that competed with their own.
People can have differing evaluations of how bad a thing sockpuppetry is. Me, I tend to fall in the 'fraud' camp, a deliberate attempt to deceive with the intention of pecuniary gain.
I'm of course not saying that this is necessarily what happened here, I'm relating it to sockpuppetry in general.
So I guess my question is...in light of the above observations...Are all of these reviews of the book what they appear to be, random, unsolicited opinions by independent purchasers, unknown to the authors or publishers?
i know your work and like you and your work, by the way, and have no axe to grind at all, I would prefer it if the reviews were all above board. I'm just ridiculously curious, that's all.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on March 16, 2013, 08:50:10 AM
I understand completely, I am also skeptical of review on amazon generally. Especially when those reviews are one day after the book was released.

I swear on my mother that we never fabricated any reviews. Jared and I both know that the fallout of them being discovered disingenuous is worse than any benefits it would provide. The only thing we did was occasionally reply to positive tweets on twitter by saying 'thanks, it would be great if you could post a review where you bought it from' etc.

The best thing you can do is exactly what you have, asking fellow poker players. This thread is a great start, we also have a commercial thread on 2+2 which is full of unbiased feedback from tons of players. (Not linking as its a rival forum but a quick google search will get you there)

If you do go on to purchase the book, I'd love to hear, warts and all, what your views on the reviews are after you read it.

Any more questions I'm happy to answer, so post away!


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: craigbetts on March 16, 2013, 08:52:50 AM
Good morning John, my reply last night was not that informative. Just to let you know I have not read any of said reviews, but my own experience of the book is nothing but positive. Really looking forward to the follow up as I am not sure what direction it will take, despite reading Barry's heads up on topics discussed.

I would recommend this book to anyone with an interest in poker, on face value it does appear a tad pricey but as mentioned it really will benefit your outlook/mindset. Good luck at the tables and let us know how you go on.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: tikay on March 16, 2013, 08:53:21 AM

Dave, to save me from having to trawl through 2+2 once again, after a week of bleeding eyes from the extraordinary ISPT thread there, please feel free to link to the 2+2 thread.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: tikay on March 16, 2013, 09:08:08 AM
Good morning Mr Keen.

Good grief, quite a Post that.

I make a rule to stay away from contentious threads where possible, but I'd like to add some balance to your Post.

I know both Co-Authors, but more so Barry Carter, aka "Dave Shoelace" here. He is by trade a Poker Journo, & is probably the best, & most pre-eminent of his type.

He has previously worked for PokerNews, but these days plies his trade at Poker Startegy.com, which is the largest whatever of it's kind on earth.

He is as straight as a die, or at least in my dealings with him over many years. I know he sweated buckets to write, & then promote the book.

On the downside as to his character, he hails from Sheffield, but we should not hold that against him.

Anyway, irrespective of all that, I would tell you that no poker book, ever, that I am aware of, has been more beneficial to more players. "Tilt" is a weird thing, many poker players, to their detriment, seem proud to say they tilt at the slightest issue, no matter how small, but it is a truly destructive emotion for a poker player. No book has ever addressed it as successfully as this has.

I have a very small role in the poker world which includes trying to help newbies at the game, most of whom suffer from tilt, & I know with certainty, & wearing numerous hats, of literally hundreds of players of my acquaintance who have benefitted from it.

On this Forum, there is a chap, a stubborn sod, named Rupinder Bedi, ("george2loose" here) & it not only changed his game, I think it changed his life. Some of us even like him now. Feel free to ask him yourself.

I have no idea what means Barry used to promote his book on Amazon, & these days there are some interesting ways to promote stuff. I can tell you, though, that the book is the standard work on the subject, & is without parallel, at least to my personal knowledge.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on March 16, 2013, 09:09:51 AM
Cheers Tikay

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/173/commercial-marketplace/mental-game-poker-new-book-jared-tendler-get-free-audiobook-1053407/

This is a commercial thread, so we pay for it, but negative posts do not get deleted.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on March 16, 2013, 09:11:59 AM
Thanks for the kind words Craig and Tikay (the cheques are in the post) :)


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: FUN4FRASER on March 16, 2013, 09:28:11 AM
Really Evocative read for both Poker and Life

Helped my mindset immensely


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: johnkeen on March 16, 2013, 10:01:38 AM
Thanks for the kind words Craig and Tikay (the cheques are in the post) :)


You're even soliciting thumbs up in your avatar! :p

Rereading, I'm wondering if I came across as a bit harsh and I'm considering just deleting my post. Sometimes I just say what I see. (or think I see).

I am makin my way through the book, a lot of interesting points about learning in it. I can feel my inner inchworm growing...

I have some queries about certain aspects of the book, and its approach, now is probably not the time. I have watched and read a lot of stuff by the author online, I'll admit from a critical (in the positive sense) viewpoint. One of the first videos I saw was from some guy called Tony Kendall who expressed his skeptiicism about the approach, I'm yet to finalize my thoughts on it all. I did start a journal of 'ideas and reflections' on all the issues I thought Tendler and Barry had brought up, and I ended up reading around the ideas quite significantly. Desperate to see what Volume 2 has to say.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: tikay on March 16, 2013, 10:09:42 AM
Thanks for the kind words Craig and Tikay (the cheques are in the post) :)


You're even soliciting thumbs up in your avatar! :p

Rereading, I'm wondering if I came across as a bit harsh and I'm considering just deleting my post. Sometimes I just say what I see. (or think I see).

I am makin my way through the book, a lot of interesting points about learning in it. I can feel my inner inchworm growing...

I have some queries about certain aspects of the book, and its approach, now is probably not the time. I have watched and read a lot of stuff by the author online, I'll admit from a critical (in the positive sense) viewpoint. One of the first videos I saw was from some guy called Tony Kendall who expressed his skeptiicism about the approach, I'm yet to finalize my thoughts on it all. I did start a journal of 'ideas and reflections' on all the issues I thought Tendler and Barry had brought up, and I ended up reading around the ideas quite significantly. Desperate to see what Volume 2 has to say.

You don't want to take much notice of him, he's extremely old for a start.

I do recall the vidoe though, & his initial reservations about the Content. He then read the book - with an open mind - & has since stated, on numerous media platforms, including magazine articles, videos, TV & forums, that he thinks the book is superb.

And before we get in a tangled web in this really most peculiar thread, & as I'm pretty sure you already know.......I am that man. 


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: johnkeen on March 16, 2013, 10:13:01 AM
Thanks for the kind words Craig and Tikay (the cheques are in the post) :)


You're even soliciting thumbs up in your avatar! :p

Rereading, I'm wondering if I came across as a bit harsh and I'm considering just deleting my post. Sometimes I just say what I see. (or think I see).

I am makin my way through the book, a lot of interesting points about learning in it. I can feel my inner inchworm growing...

I have some queries about certain aspects of the book, and its approach, now is probably not the time. I have watched and read a lot of stuff by the author online, I'll admit from a critical (in the positive sense) viewpoint. One of the first videos I saw was from some guy called Tony Kendall who expressed his skeptiicism about the approach, I'm yet to finalize my thoughts on it all. I did start a journal of 'ideas and reflections' on all the issues I thought Tendler and Barry had brought up, and I ended up reading around the ideas quite significantly. Desperate to see what Volume 2 has to say.

You don't want to take much notice of him, he's extremely old for a start.

I do recall the vidoe though, & his initial reservations about the Content. He then read the book - with an open mind - & has since stated, on numerous media platforms, including magazine articles, videos, TV & forums, that he thinks the book is superb.

And before we get in a tangled web in this really most peculiar thread, & as I'm pretty sure you already know.......I am that man. 

I'm sorry, your back is to me in your avatar. I was confusing you with the dark-haired gentleman with the moustache.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on March 16, 2013, 10:28:26 AM
Thanks for the kind words Craig and Tikay (the cheques are in the post) :)


You're even soliciting thumbs up in your avatar! :p

Rereading, I'm wondering if I came across as a bit harsh and I'm considering just deleting my post. Sometimes I just say what I see. (or think I see).

I am makin my way through the book, a lot of interesting points about learning in it. I can feel my inner inchworm growing...

I have some queries about certain aspects of the book, and its approach, now is probably not the time. I have watched and read a lot of stuff by the author online, I'll admit from a critical (in the positive sense) viewpoint. One of the first videos I saw was from some guy called Tony Kendall who expressed his skeptiicism about the approach, I'm yet to finalize my thoughts on it all. I did start a journal of 'ideas and reflections' on all the issues I thought Tendler and Barry had brought up, and I ended up reading around the ideas quite significantly. Desperate to see what Volume 2 has to say.

Please don't delete the post and no it was not harsh at all. If these were your concerns then they likely are other people's concerns too. Skepticism is as good a marketing opportunity as a good review from my perspective and I appreciate you bringing it up.

If you have specific questions on the content I'm all ears and Jared comes on here too now and then.


Title: Re: Reviews of The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler on Amazon.com
Post by: Doobs on March 16, 2013, 10:35:32 AM
simples, just buy the book, i have gone on a huge upswong since it has sat on my bookcase, the likes of dooby wooby on here have taken down GUKPT's after Ft'ing Sunday majors all on the back of using this book as a mouse mat!

unless you are a plant, it is a no brainer! it pays for itself.

I can confirm that craigbetts is right.  I bought the book late last year.  In December I final tabled the poker million on stars. In March I was 2nd in the GUKPT London. 

I really should read beyond the first chapter.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Marky147 on March 16, 2013, 10:39:29 AM
Just got the audiobook, but lasted about 5minutes listening to that guy talking and think I will just read the book instead :D


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: vegaslover on March 16, 2013, 11:36:34 AM

I would recommend this book to anyone with an interest in poker, on face value it does appear a tad pricey but as mentioned it really will benefit your outlook/mindset. Good luck at the tables and let us know how you go on.

Just to add to this, for a reference book I actually think it's cheap.
IMO it also sits pretty well as a psychology text book for all walks in life, not just poker


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: johnkeen on March 17, 2013, 12:26:37 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/deh2iVy.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/deh2iVy.jpg

Of all the 5-tar reviews submitted over 3 years, almost half (15) occur during a Golden eight day period between 7-15 June 2011. There are clusters within this cluster, 5 reviews were submitted on 8th June 2011 alone.

Most of the reviews (13 out of 15) submitted during this golden eight days were by usernames who had reviewed no other item, before or since.

Amazon have a system called 'Amazon Verified Purchase', each review has one or it does not. You can submit a review to Amazon without having purchased the thing you are reviewing there. You may have purchased it elsewhere, or not. One would ask why you wourd visit Amazon to write a review for an item you have not purchased there.
However, overall, the AVP badge is one more indicator of the likelihood of a given review having been written by a random punter as opposed to someone with a financial interest in whipping up sales. The latter is likely not to go through a purchase for each review, when they have the option to review without purhase.
That said, we look at the period outwith the Golden 8 days, and a wopping 85 percent of the reviews are from Amazon Verified Purchases. Conversely, we look at the 15 purchases in the Golden Eight days, and not one is from an Amazon Verified Purchase, 0%. This is statistically significant and shows that with a very high degree of probability, there was something else going on with the reviews during the Golden Eight days that differentiates them from the reviews outwith that period of time. Combining that with the clustering, and the lack of other purchases, I still find it very hard to believe that these reviews were by random punters, or even just someone 'asked to write a review wherever they had bought the book'. Far more likely that tbey have been written not each by a unique sale, but by someone sitting down just bashing out reviews. Their tone and style looks the same. They cluster by date and the operation appears to be concerted.
Those are the facts. You can draw your own conclusions.

(http://i.imgur.com/l9AFQmi.jpg)

http://i.imgur.com/l9AFQmi.jpg


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Doobs on March 17, 2013, 01:28:01 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/deh2iVy.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/deh2iVy.jpg

Of all the 5-tar reviews submitted over 3 years, almost half (15) occur during a Golden eight day period between 7-15 June 2011. There are clusters within this cluster, 5 reviews were submitted on 8th June 2011 alone.

Most of the reviews (13 out of 15) submitted during this golden eight days were by usernames who had reviewed no other item, before or since.

Amazon have a system called 'Amazon Verified Purchase', each review has one or it does not. You can submit a review to Amazon without having purchased the thing you are reviewing there. You may have purchased it elsewhere, or not. One would ask why you wourd visit Amazon to write a review for an item you have not purchased there.
However, overall, the AVP badge is one more indicator of the likelihood of a given review having been written by a random punter as opposed to someone with a financial interest in whipping up sales. The latter is likely not to go through a purchase for each review, when they have the option to review without purhase.
That said, we look at the period outwith the Golden 8 days, and a wopping 85 percent of the reviews are from Amazon Verified Purchases. Conversely, we look at the 15 purchases in the Golden Eight days, and not one is from an Amazon Verified Purchase, 0%. This is statistically significant and shows that with a very high degree of probability, there was something else going on with the reviews during the Golden Eight days that differentiates them from the reviews outwith that period of time. Combining that with the clustering, and the lack of other purchases, I still find it very hard to believe that these reviews were by random punters, or even just someone 'asked to write a review wherever they had bought the book'. Far more likely that tbey have been written not each by a unique sale, but by someone sitting down just bashing out reviews. Their tone and style looks the same. They cluster by date and the operation appears to be concerted.
Those are the facts. You can draw your own conclusions.

(http://i.imgur.com/l9AFQmi.jpg)

http://i.imgur.com/l9AFQmi.jpg

If I were going to make a post such as this, I'd check when the amazon verified purchase began on amazon.co.uk.  If I didn't do that, I'd run the risk of making a bad conclusion from the evidence presented. 





Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: johnkeen on March 17, 2013, 01:36:04 PM
If I were going to make a post such as this, I'd check when the amazon verified purchase began on amazon.co.uk.  If I didn't do that, I'd run the risk of making a bad conclusion from the evidence presented. 





My posts and graphs all relate only to reviews and purchases on Amazon.com, not Amazon.co.uk.
When I first saw the data, your point came to mind, and I checked...Amazon Verified Purchase was going way before this book was published.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Marky147 on March 17, 2013, 01:37:52 PM
You must have more spare time on your hands than me John :D


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on March 17, 2013, 01:47:11 PM
The book was actually released in April that year, but only became available direct from amazon in may,  and as previously mentioned we actively encouraged people on social media to post review - however we never asked them to give is five star or tell them what to write. That may also account why there may be some unverfied purchases.

The cluster of early reviews is as much a bi product of how heavily we marketed the book in the first 3-6 months than anything else. We had a lot of people eagerly purchase the book in the first month and we also did tons of marketing, guest articles, magazine articles, interviews, webinars etc.

I have nothing to hide, I won't be trying to get your posts removed and have never done anything shady, with this book or my day to day work, of this nature. The book has sold very well, not because we manipulated anything, but because people liked it and told their friends.



Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: horseplayer on March 17, 2013, 01:56:04 PM
firstly i have never read the book (or plan to) and have no affiliation with the authors

why do you care john?



Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: johnkeen on March 17, 2013, 02:03:16 PM
The book was actually released in April that year, but only became available direct from amazon in may,  and as previously mentioned we actively encouraged people on social media to post review - however we never asked them to give is five star or tell them what to write. That may also account why there may be some unverfied purchases.

The cluster of early reviews is as much a bi product of how heavily we marketed the book in the first 3-6 months than anything else. We had a lot of people eagerly purchase the book in the first month and we also did tons of marketing, guest articles, magazine articles, interviews, webinars etc.


I have nothing to hide, I won't be trying to get your posts removed and have never done anything shady, with this book or my day to day work, of this nature. The book has sold very well, not because we manipulated anything, but because people liked it and told their friends.

Intense marketing in the early days, eager buyers and a vague review solicitation would produce some skewing and a little clustering in the results, maybe. However that kind of thing would produce nothing like this. Why would there be intense clustering over 8 days? Why would there be such intense clustering on one of these days? Why would all reviews in that week be from purchases unverified by Amazon, when most outside that date are verified? Why would most of these people log in just to review that one book, on a site they don't appear to have bought it from, and then never review another one there? Why would they all write in that style? Why would they go to the effort of setting up accounts on a site where they probably hadn't bought it, just to write a review designed to specifically encourage the audience to buy?
To be honest, I'm not querying your honesty, I would not believe someone if they told me you had anything to do with this. I'm not interested in this turning out to be one thing or another. Many of the reviews just look really weird to me, and that's the only reason why I asked. If many people pay a decent sum for the book, often on the back of very positive reviews, I think this exercise is perfectly legitimate.
I did see other reviews for this book on amazon specifically targetting this very issue. I saw one of them (one star) removed, and another query their authenticity, which was replied to, but not addressed by, the author. So I thought I'd bring it up here.
The facts remain unexplained...I did ask, without the graphs, sorry.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: johnkeen on March 17, 2013, 02:10:17 PM
firstly i have never read the book (or plan to) and have no affiliation with the authors

why do you care john?



Firstly because whether the reviews are legitimate or not are of interest to me just for curiosity value, and secondly when I look at how many people are handing over fairly decent sums based partly on reviews they see on amazon, when anyone can write those reviews, and the reviews look questionable to me, then I'll go ahead and ask the question. In those other online reviews , which lead to a lot of sales, and where a large number of reviews were fake (30 percent, I believe), the perpetrators were relying on posts like mine not being made. I'm not saying anything like that happened here. And I'm certainly not pointing fingers at Barry Carter. I just wrote out what facts I saw, and asked how they could be explained. I


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Marky147 on March 17, 2013, 02:25:13 PM
If this is the trouble you go to before buying a book for twenty quid, booking a holiday or buying a motor must be a nightmare  ;D


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: johnkeen on March 17, 2013, 02:27:26 PM
If this is the trouble you go to before buying a book for twenty quid, booking a holiday or buying a motor must be a nightmare  ;D

There was no foundation to that restraining order by Jeremy Clarkson and you know it :p



Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on March 17, 2013, 02:35:25 PM
I do recall a few one star reviews which were removed. In one instance it was a guy who in his first line admitted he hadn't bought the book, in another the person in question had been posting links to his own book and had done so on numerous popular poker books. At the time I actually said to Jared we should report them to Amazon but he disagreed and said he thought it was better for him to respond and address any concerns other people may have.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: horseplayer on March 17, 2013, 02:38:08 PM
twenty pounds for a book?

hardly a lot is it?



Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: kinboshi on March 17, 2013, 02:40:36 PM
John, who are you and what is your agenda here? 

Your analysis of the reviews and feedback this book has had is far more involved than that of someone with a passing interest in the book.

For what it's worth, I bought the book when it was released in kindle format, and thought it was OK.  I didn't feel I learnt a lot from it, but maybe one or two things were helpful, and that's usually the same with every poker book I've read.  However, these one or two things can make a big difference over the long-term though and so I'd view it as value for money.  I also couldn't give a toss what the reviews on Amazon say, as I've already bought the book - as you have.  I'd prefer to make my own mind up and worry far less about the reviews on Amazon and their legitimacy.

If you have an axe to grind, and you're questioning the integrity of Jared and Barry, then full disclosure from you would probably be sensible.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: tikay on March 17, 2013, 02:46:03 PM
John, who are you and what is your agenda here? 

Your analysis of the reviews and feedback this book has had is far more involved than that of someone with a passing interest in the book.

For what it's worth, I bought the book when it was released in kindle format, and thought it was OK.  I didn't feel I learnt a lot from it, but maybe one or two things were helpful, and that's usually the same with every poker book I've read.  However, these one or two things can make a big difference over the long-term though and so I'd view it as value for money.  I also couldn't give a toss what the reviews on Amazon say, as I've already bought the book - as you haveI'd prefer to make my own mind up and worry far less about the reviews on Amazon and their legitimacy.

If you have an axe to grind, and you're questioning the integrity of Jared and Barry, then full disclosure from you would probably be sensible.


No - he said he was THINKING of buying it. (See John's first post).


I am thinking of buying this book on Amazon.com


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: booder on March 17, 2013, 02:47:07 PM
John, who are you and what is your agenda here? 

Your analysis of the reviews and feedback this book has had is far more involved than that of someone with a passing interest in the book.

For what it's worth, I bought the book when it was released in kindle format, and thought it was OK.  I didn't feel I learnt a lot from it, but maybe one or two things were helpful, and that's usually the same with every poker book I've read.  However, these one or two things can make a big difference over the long-term though and so I'd view it as value for money.  I also couldn't give a toss what the reviews on Amazon say, as I've already bought the book - as you have.  I'd prefer to make my own mind up and worry far less about the reviews on Amazon and their legitimacy.

If you have an axe to grind, and you're questioning the integrity of Jared and Barry, then full disclosure from you would probably be sensible.


 /:-|   in da house


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: kinboshi on March 17, 2013, 02:48:36 PM
John, who are you and what is your agenda here? 

Your analysis of the reviews and feedback this book has had is far more involved than that of someone with a passing interest in the book.

For what it's worth, I bought the book when it was released in kindle format, and thought it was OK.  I didn't feel I learnt a lot from it, but maybe one or two things were helpful, and that's usually the same with every poker book I've read.  However, these one or two things can make a big difference over the long-term though and so I'd view it as value for money.  I also couldn't give a toss what the reviews on Amazon say, as I've already bought the book - as you haveI'd prefer to make my own mind up and worry far less about the reviews on Amazon and their legitimacy.

If you have an axe to grind, and you're questioning the integrity of Jared and Barry, then full disclosure from you would probably be sensible.


No - he said he was THINKING of buying it. (See John's first post).


I am thinking of buying this book on Amazon.com

Ah, I misinterpreted: "I have had a look through all of the pages" - he meant all the reviews on Amazon.  I think I'd rather invest £20 than spend my time going through all the reviews on Amazon.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: tikay on March 17, 2013, 02:50:02 PM
John, who are you and what is your agenda here? 

Your analysis of the reviews and feedback this book has had is far more involved than that of someone with a passing interest in the book.

For what it's worth, I bought the book when it was released in kindle format, and thought it was OK.  I didn't feel I learnt a lot from it, but maybe one or two things were helpful, and that's usually the same with every poker book I've read.  However, these one or two things can make a big difference over the long-term though and so I'd view it as value for money.  I also couldn't give a toss what the reviews on Amazon say, as I've already bought the book - as you haveI'd prefer to make my own mind up and worry far less about the reviews on Amazon and their legitimacy.

If you have an axe to grind, and you're questioning the integrity of Jared and Barry, then full disclosure from you would probably be sensible.


No - he said he was THINKING of buying it. (See John's first post).


I am thinking of buying this book on Amazon.com

Ahh, I got confused. He also said.......


I am makin my way through the book, a lot of interesting points about learning in it. I can feel my inner inchworm growing...

I have some queries about certain aspects of the book, and its approach


So maybe he made a mistake in his first Post here.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: johnkeen on March 17, 2013, 02:58:57 PM
John, who are you and what is your agenda here? 

Your analysis of the reviews and feedback this book has had is far more involved than that of someone with a passing interest in the book.

For what it's worth, I bought the book when it was released in kindle format, and thought it was OK.  I didn't feel I learnt a lot from it, but maybe one or two things were helpful, and that's usually the same with every poker book I've read.  However, these one or two things can make a big difference over the long-term though and so I'd view it as value for money.  I also couldn't give a toss what the reviews on Amazon say, as I've already bought the book - as you have.  I'd prefer to make my own mind up and worry far less about the reviews on Amazon and their legitimacy.

If you have an axe to grind, and you're questioning the integrity of Jared and Barry, then full disclosure from you would probably be sensible.
I have no axe to grind and I have no agenda of any sort in this. I asked a very clear set of questions about the objectivity of the reviews on Amazon, they went unanswered, I was told that the Barry was honest (which I already believed), that the book was fantastic (which I am still trying to establish). The actual questions I raised, which were about objective facts available on Amazon, and which never once directly questioned the honesty of the authors, remained unaddressed, so I asked them again, in a way that could not be unaddressed. I never once made it an ad hominem attack but you seem to wish to turn it into that. I will not get involved in that type of discussion, I already stayed clear of it. All I did was point out what I saw. If there is a legitimate reason for the facts I observed (and i presented facts, not assumptions) then that will come out. I offered to retract, and the author insisted that what I was doing was in fact good for his publicity therefore i repeated what I had asked but in clearer and more specific terms. I am not an author and I would like very much to read a good book about this kind of thing as a lot of money is riding on whether or not he topic can be cracked, for anyone seeking to address it in their game. I have an intense, personal interest in the subject matter, apologies if this gave rise to probing questions on your forum. I'll make the next one about massaging my calf muscles. What do you want me to say? That I'm a poker author and I'm trying to bring down Tendler and Carter? My points would remain. You're a bright guy, do the reviews look legit to you? They matter to me, I actually do buy a lot on there based on reviews, as do many others.
I didn't buy the book, I am swithering about buying it so that I can more concretely pull sections from it that I want to address. I am making my way through it in audible format, which was (in effect) free.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on March 17, 2013, 03:00:58 PM
John - you seem to know a lot about Amazon, so can you answer me this?

Is the 'Amazon Verified Purchase' only for one when Amazon sell the book direct? ie. not when a licensed vendor is selling them through their Amazon seller account?

99% of our Amazon sales in the first 3-6 months were from our Amazon vendor account, not Amazon themselves. We also didn't release the kindle version until much later.

I don't know the answer to the above, I've googled it and looked at the T&Cs on Amazon but cant find an answer - but it may be an explanation to why there are not many early verified purchases.  


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: johnkeen on March 17, 2013, 03:04:14 PM
John, who are you and what is your agenda here? 

Your analysis of the reviews and feedback this book has had is far more involved than that of someone with a passing interest in the book.

For what it's worth, I bought the book when it was released in kindle format, and thought it was OK.  I didn't feel I learnt a lot from it, but maybe one or two things were helpful, and that's usually the same with every poker book I've read.  However, these one or two things can make a big difference over the long-term though and so I'd view it as value for money.  I also couldn't give a toss what the reviews on Amazon say, as I've already bought the book - as you haveI'd prefer to make my own mind up and worry far less about the reviews on Amazon and their legitimacy.

If you have an axe to grind, and you're questioning the integrity of Jared and Barry, then full disclosure from you would probably be sensible.


No - he said he was THINKING of buying it. (See John's first post).


I am thinking of buying this book on Amazon.com

Ahh, I got confused. He also said.......


I am makin my way through the book, a lot of interesting points about learning in it. I can feel my inner inchworm growing...

I have some queries about certain aspects of the book, and its approach


So maybe he made a mistake in his first Post here.


I think what you mean by the last sentence is 'He was lying.' Which I am not. I am thinking of buying the book, I am making my way through it in audible format which was available as part of a promotion (and in effect, free).


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: kinboshi on March 17, 2013, 03:05:04 PM
No ad hominem attack, as I don't know who you are or why you have such an intense, personal interest in the subject matter.

If I was thinking of buying the book, I'd definitely listen to the reviews from a lot of the people on here, many of whom are decent poker players and have stated that they benefited greatly from the book.  I've also read it.

Either that, or I'd buy the book and make up my own mind.  As you've got it in audiobook format, you can very easily make up your own mind.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: johnkeen on March 17, 2013, 03:10:04 PM
John - you seem to know a lot about Amazon, so can you answer me this?

Is the 'Amazon Verified Purchase' only for one when Amazon sell the book direct? ie. not when a licensed vendor is selling them through their Amazon seller account?

99% of our Amazon sales in the first 3-6 months were from our Amazon vendor account, not Amazon themselves. We also didn't release the kindle version until much later.

I don't know the answer to the above, I've googled it and looked at the T&Cs on Amazon but cant find an answer - but it may be an explanation to why there are not many early verified purchases.  


I don't know one way or another Barry, could well be something like that. I'll have a snoop around, I bookmarked quite a few links earlier when I was looking into it.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on March 17, 2013, 03:11:06 PM
John - you seem to know a lot about Amazon, so can you answer me this?

Is the 'Amazon Verified Purchase' only for one when Amazon sell the book direct? ie. not when a licensed vendor is selling them through their Amazon seller account?

99% of our Amazon sales in the first 3-6 months were from our Amazon vendor account, not Amazon themselves. We also didn't release the kindle version until much later.

I don't know the answer to the above, I've googled it and looked at the T&Cs on Amazon but cant find an answer - but it may be an explanation to why there are not many early verified purchases.  


I don't know one way or another Barry, could well be something like that. I'll have a snoop around, I bookmarked quite a few links earlier when I was looking into it.

I've emailed their support to find out.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Marky147 on March 17, 2013, 03:15:48 PM
Do you suffer from headaches much John?



Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: johnkeen on March 17, 2013, 03:22:09 PM
No ad hominem attack, as I don't know who you are or why you have such an intense, personal interest in the subject matter.

If I was thinking of buying the book, I'd definitely listen to the reviews from a lot of the people on here, many of whom are decent poker players and have stated that they benefited greatly from the book.  I've also read it.

Either that, or I'd buy the book and make up my own mind.  As you've got it in audiobook format, you can very easily make up your own mind.
I can't not really in audible format. I've already had to resort to taping it while I listen so that I have something I can shuttle about, as I would a book. He makes a lot of points that actually require a great deal of thinking and exploration to establish even if the premises are true or not.
I think if people, like vegaslover for example, spend half their poker time in monkey tilt then any book that forces them to address the causes of it, then it's bound to work wonders. There are a substantial number of people for whom it is a much more subtle affair, and it's absolutely requrred that the authors be completely accurate and comprehensive in dealing with the matter, and I do not think that this is occurring here. I also think that it is subtle, requires asking the right questions in a really informed and ruthless way, that just being a  decent poker player certainly does not on its own qualify you to make that judgement. It may feel like it has produced a big change in your game within the first year, because you are at last turning and addressing the issue head on. But if you're going to be relying on the content in 4 years time, staring down at an 800 pound call, and scrutinizing the distortions of your own tilt, and relying to do so on the musings of the leading expert who didn't even know that those distortions existed...then good luck!



Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: kinboshi on March 17, 2013, 03:22:19 PM
Oh, and if you do buy the book - make sure you use the blonde affiliate link:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/ref=as_li_wdgt_ex?&linkCode=wsw&tag=blondepoker-21

:)up


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: johnkeen on March 17, 2013, 03:24:02 PM
Do you suffer from headaches much John?



Only when I'm punched in the face by aspiring poker authors :D


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: RED-DOG on March 17, 2013, 03:31:40 PM
Do you suffer from headaches much John?



Only when I'm punched in the face by aspiring poker authors :D


This post is to prove that I can resist an open goal.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on March 17, 2013, 03:33:30 PM
John - you seem to know a lot about Amazon, so can you answer me this?

Is the 'Amazon Verified Purchase' only for one when Amazon sell the book direct? ie. not when a licensed vendor is selling them through their Amazon seller account?

99% of our Amazon sales in the first 3-6 months were from our Amazon vendor account, not Amazon themselves. We also didn't release the kindle version until much later.

I don't know the answer to the above, I've googled it and looked at the T&Cs on Amazon but cant find an answer - but it may be an explanation to why there are not many early verified purchases.  

To answer my own question, it looks like Amazon vendors do also count as verified reviews, so my theory there wasn't correct.

I'll get Jared to confirm the timeline. But our very first batch of sales came from this website http://mentalgameofpoker.com/ and we didn't start selling them on Amazon until after the initial release (Think it was early May).

Once again, in the early marketing efforts we actively asked people to post reviews of the book for others to see, but never asked for five start reviews or asked people to write specific things.




Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: vegaslover on March 17, 2013, 04:00:24 PM
John - Barry and Jared done a lot of advertising a promos before and when the book came out. A lot of reviews could simply be those first customers responding to a simple email/tweet/blog sent en-masse to all those who purchased asking to review. Something that is very standard in marketing.

Also a lot of people, myself including, bought the books direct from Barry. I often write reviews on Amazon but I wouldn't always have purchased from there.

Lastly, in making my own conclusions, as you recommend a couple of pages back, I can only surmise that you are trolling for some strange reason


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on March 17, 2013, 04:05:08 PM
Book 2 is out April 23 btw ;hide;


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: kinboshi on March 17, 2013, 04:08:39 PM
Book 2 is out April 23 btw ;hide;

;spam;


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: johnkeen on March 17, 2013, 04:08:52 PM
John - Barry and Jared done a lot of advertising a promos before and when the book came out. A lot of reviews could simply be those first customers responding to a simple email/tweet/blog sent en-masse to all those who purchased asking to review. Something that is very standard in marketing.
Is your conclusion here consistent with the points I outlined? Do you dispute the points I outlined or the logic I used to draw a conclusion. You are a psychiatric nurse, no, trained in making conclustions all the time?


Lastly, in making my own conclusions, as you recommend a couple of pages back, I can only surmise that you are trolling for some strange reason
If your definition of 'troll' is someone that makes some points that not everyone agrees with, then troll I am. I was just using you as an example of tilt, if that's what's riled you this time. You exhibited your blog everywhere and linked there with half of the world, and every other post was about tilting, and getting angry at beats. I ended up thinking, my god, this guy must really hate vegas


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: horseplayer on March 17, 2013, 05:27:17 PM
stupid question time

you have the audio book which i presume is exactly the same as the paper version

i am really struggling why you would then spend which seems like at least a few hours asking/researching questioning the authors on here when you have the product already?

if it is not for you then dont buy it if it is then do


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on March 17, 2013, 06:40:23 PM
I've tried to avoid going down the route of accusing John of being a troll. However someone has been trolling Jared for about three or four months on 2+2, questioning the legitimacy of his work while not having read the book, we have a suspicion that he is someone who is trying to establish himself as a mental game coach in poker by discrediting Jared. The last two of three posts from John are remarkably similar to the posts of the 2+2 guy, and I now believe they are one in the same person, and they have some sort of hidden agenda.

I didn't want to share private sales information, but I think this will potentially address any concerns raised by John (For other people). The book was released in April 2011 on our own websitel, and available on Amazon in May. By June 1st we had sold over 1,000 copies of the book via our own website, and given roughly a further 100 copies away either as prizes from marketing efforts or free review copies to bloggers. We had only sold about 200 copies via Amazon at this time.

I think two months where people have had time to read the book, over 1,000 copies in circulation, a big marketing effort on our parts and us actively asking readers to post reviews of the book is more than adequate explanation for the 12 reviews on Amazon in June.

The 100ish free copies for bloggers and prize winners you could of course argue might bias those that chose to review, but we also asked reviewers to be honest and not sugar coat it (I think Tighty can confirm I told him to say it sucked if he thought it did, as can pretty much anyone who received a review copy).

Times like this I wish I was Curtis Woodhouse.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on March 17, 2013, 06:52:29 PM
Btw Jared is on holiday, he normally responds to criticism himself.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Marky147 on March 17, 2013, 07:48:12 PM
I didn't think he was a troll myself, well not until his 2nd post :)


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: TightEnd on March 17, 2013, 07:49:50 PM
I didn't think he was a troll myself, well not until his 2nd post :)


FWIW, he's gone to trollville in the forum sky now.



Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: tikay on March 17, 2013, 07:53:33 PM


(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/tikay2/TERMINATOR_zps5b160185.jpg)


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: bobAlike on March 17, 2013, 08:10:08 PM
Tightynator


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on March 17, 2013, 08:50:22 PM
100% confirmed its the same guy from 2+2 btw, he just started posting again.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: tikay on March 17, 2013, 08:56:25 PM
100% confirmed its the same guy from 2+2 btw, he just started posting again.

Yeah, saw it Barry.

From his very first Post here it was odds-on to be the guy who had been ranting about you on 2+2.

He is complaining about blonde & Tighty now.

All standard stuff.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: TightEnd on March 17, 2013, 08:59:55 PM

He is complaining about blonde & Tighty now.

All standard stuff.


unlike you to swerve the "named in dispatches" complaint. Wish I was the one who banned him now :-)


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: aaron1867 on March 17, 2013, 09:05:35 PM
Not read the thread when it started (only joined here in 2012).

Is it worth getting the first version, then the second version when it comes out too? Seen a few people recommend it, so thinking of getting it myself.


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: DaveShoelace on March 17, 2013, 09:08:21 PM
Not read the thread when it started (only joined here in 2012).

Is it worth getting the first version, then the second version when it comes out too? Seen a few people recommend it, so thinking of getting it myself.

They are totally different books, material wise. You don't need to have read the first one to read the second one and vice versa.

The first book is about mental game leaks - tilt, overconfidence, low motivation etc.

Second book is about A-game, the zone, learning etc.

Originally it was going to be one book, but we had way too much material.



Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: tikay on March 17, 2013, 09:17:27 PM

He is complaining about blonde & Tighty now.

All standard stuff.


unlike you to swerve the "named in dispatches" complaint. Wish I was the one who banned him now :-)

Ha!

Yes, he got the wrong bloke, but it's just detail.......

Think it's time we stopped giving trolls the benefit of the doubt & just shoot on sight.  

Still, he linked to us from 2+2, so we get some extra traffic. Every cloud & all that.






Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: kinboshi on March 17, 2013, 09:24:09 PM
Not read the thread when it started (only joined here in 2012).

Is it worth getting the first version, then the second version when it comes out too? Seen a few people recommend it, so thinking of getting it myself.

They are totally different books, material wise. You don't need to have read the first one to read the second one and vice versa.

The first book is about mental game leaks - tilt, overconfidence, low motivation etc.

Second book is about A-game, the zone, learning etc.

Originally it was going to be one book, but we had way too much material.



If you're thinking of getting the book, have a read of the reviews on Amazon... ;)


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: dwayne110 on March 19, 2013, 01:51:56 AM
As soon as I read the 2nd post of 'John Keen' it seemed obvious he had an agenda. It's very clear he's invested a lot of time preparing his barrage of questions, this before the ridiculous graph presentation (which seemed inconclusive given a small sample size aligned with expected high level of early post sale reviews, fwiw...). Every point then finishing with 'just to satisfy my curiosity' or some equivalent... almost felt like a subtle (initially!) sales pitch to furtively question the integrity of the authors.

As a general point, what a sad way to try and develop his business... whether methods like this work or not, is the loss of his integrity worth it?

Oh, and I now want to buy the book more if he's going to these lengths, must be good!


Title: Re: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace
Post by: Acidmouse on April 03, 2013, 01:35:20 PM
I bought the kindle version last year and really enjoyed it. My only neg was that the flow of the book felt little difficult and unnatural for me, maybe because i am dyslexic and prefer easily told journey books (aka Dan Brown).