blonde poker forum

Nope, not what you think.

Me, gatso and StuartHopkin (aka Stuart Hopkin) are going to be running the Berlin Marathon next year (30 September 2012).

Training starts now...well, tomorrow after I finish this kebab.

[  ] Thread delivers

google produced much better results

(http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo151/outragous76/fitblondeinberlin.jpg)

Thanks for asking me to take part.

Looks like the back end of the Denmark flag to me.

These are some genuine Berlinners.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0rfEoiuIbmU/TZfiiDbtHjI/AAAAAAAAAHc/cCIrb_zP2No/s1600/football-fantasy-germany.jpg)

6 3 2 5 1 4

You still can. We've been asking if anyone else wanted to take part.

6,4,2,5,1,3

Stu Hopkin? lolol

so, who else is up for it? the more the merrier, it'd be good to get a big group. vegaslover hasn't been online yet today but will hopefully be the 4th blonde running

registration opened today and is currently €60 though that will increase to €80 once 10,000 people have registered

provisional play is to fly over on sat sept 29th, run on the sunday, drink amazing german beer sunday night and all day monday and fly back on tuesday oct 2nd

So at the current pace of things on the site, you have till February to get the reduced rate.

??  :'(

You gonna seriously train for this bud? Prob means not drinking 54 pints of Guinness a day. Gatso and Boshi are, how can I say, more bodily tuned to this type of activity.

i am quite almost semi-tempted to say i'll join in.  running a marathon was an item on my abstract 'things i'll try to do before I'm 30' list type things (as was visiting Berlin) obv too late for that achievement now, but it'd still be a good thing to tick off before i get too old and decrepit.  Am ridic unfit, but i don't suppose that's enough of a valid excuse with over a year to go.

Lol never ever failed at anything bud

My name aint Girgy

will sponsor u nearer the time bud. glglgl

p.s. how will this affect the drinking thread?

No drinking this week and next week as I have the 10k on the 29th
Then back on the Guinness heavily to complete the 1000 pints
Then in the new year I dont know where to take the drinking thread?
Next target will be the 26k Kilomathon in March.

do it. weekend away with mates and a little marathon thrown in. perfect

ask me next time we are pissed and i'll probs agree to do it.

i mean the marathon thingy, obv.

Will probs be up for a  go at this.
Started putting together a tentative plan, the other day, to do a marathon next summer.

Can't see  any downside to making it a bit later in the year.
(Aside from the obvious issues of being miles overweight, and not having run since school.... and not being very good at it then).

anyone considering it be aware of the price increases depending on how many have already entered

1 - 10,000           60.00 euros
10,001 - 25,000    80.00 euros
25,001 - 40,000    100.00 euros

Plenty of time to train for this. If you haven't run for years and can't run for more than a few minutes now then you'd have to start training before the new year to be ready to run a marathon next September.

You should definitely do it!

So Claire and Neil to be added to the list?

I might challenge you next year, doubt I could compete though.

I read it as November for some reason and was obviously being optimistic thinking i could probs start training around late summer time :D

how much of a time commitment, roughly, would the required training be?

most training schedules are around 16 weeks

you really need to already have a little base fitness before starting the 16 weeks though like being able to jog for 1/2 hour but that's a pretty easy stage to get to

i can probably walk for 1/2 an hour if that's any good?

claire, if you sign up I'll give you a copy of this book that I've got lying around http://www.amazon.co.uk/Non-Runners-Marathon-Trainer-David-Whitsett/dp/1570281823

it's based around a course that was run 5 times at the university of iowa taking a group of students of all abilities through a 16 week course ending with them running their first marathon which was effectively the final exam. 200 people did the course and only 1 failed to finish, pretty sure that was through dehydration. it's got loads of tips not just for the physical side but also the mental aspects of running

also has a nice easy schedule for getting you to the point where you can run 3 miles which is where the 16 week schedule starts

gonna pm you innit

only a matter of time till your liver fails bud.

It's at the end of September, so plenty of time.

As gatso said, most training plans are 16 weeks, but also assume a base level before that. Maybe the ability to run a 10k if you just want to complete the marathon, or maybe 20 miles a week if you then want to go after a time goal, of say three and a half hours.

Giving up smoking would also be advisable I'd have thought.

have PMd gatso but might as well post here too in case it's of relevance to anyone else.  My main concern is more to do with patterns of training and the time I'll be able to devote do it.  Due to my schedule with Hannah I'll only be available to train on 3 nights a week (sometimes consecutive, sometimes broken), and only every other weekend.  Is it achievable to do with that kind of pattern, or is it really only something that can be achieved with daily training at any point?

you may as well post my reply on here now then as you've stuck the question up. I can't as didn't save a copy

are you trying to stitch me up for a ban?

Hey hotstuff,

varies depending on what schedule you follow obv but if you follow the one in this book then it's 4 days a week for the 16 weeks. only one of those days is a long run, the other 3 are 2 short and 1 medium (really 3 short ones for the first 8 weeks until it ups a bit)

it's not that much commitment other than the 1 long run per week, it's designed to get you round rather than make you quick

if you allowed 18 weeks to do it then you're giving yourself a little leeway to postpone the odd session and it really won't matter

the prelim schedule for getting you up to running 3 miles is either 3 or 4 times a week over 10 weeks but you've got so long to do that part that it really doesn't matter if you don't stick to that. plus it really shouldn't take 10 weeks, you could probably jump right in at week 5 or 6

love and kisses, gatso xxx

I'm gonna give it some thought over the next few weeks - not that bothered about saving a few euros for the sake of getting in quick, but it seems as though even doing the minimum amount of training will mean sacrificing my already pretty pitiful social life.  Probs more likely I'll think about doing something like this in a few years once hannah's a bit more independent and I can leave her at home (or have her train along) whilst i go out for a run and stuff.

4,2,6,3,5,1

Absolute fkn ballache trying to register.
It requires your card to still be active two months after the event. Both of mine expire before then.
Will have to wait until I get a new card through

Sent you a PM

No idea if or how quickly the spaces in this sell out.

Challenge me to what?

You mean the same as every other person on this thread?

Is there any poker on in Berlin?

Was thinking pre race, but then will probably want to be tucked up in bed at a reasonable hour on the Saturday

Thanks though!

sold out in feb for this year's

There is the Spielbank which is a massive casino chain in Germany, i've been to their casinos in Munich, Berlin and Garmisch. Had to wear a jacket and shoes, but you can rent them at the door if you need.

They have two in Berlin one is in the big square in the centre called potsdamer platz and the other is at Hasenheide, They have 2/2, 2/5 and 5/10 cash and different daily MTTs 20-100 euro bracket. On a Saturday there is a select your stack comp buy in for 30,50 or 100 and get a different stack accordingly. Can also reg over the phone.

List of the tourneys at each:
http://www.spielbank-berlin.de/berlins-best-poker-spot/daily-tournaments/tournaments-at-potsdamer-platz (http://www.spielbank-berlin.de/berlins-best-poker-spot/daily-tournaments/tournaments-at-potsdamer-platz)

Can't comment on Westspiel as i've never been in one. But there is defo plenty of pokes to be had.

Was that when everyone managed to get their entries in via the website via the clickfest?

Berln is wicked, but wouldn't want to go and have to run a marathon!! seems a waste... enter the inverness marathon, great scenery, no distraction etc etc.. and then go to Berlin on a jolly

Berlin's probably closer.

 rotflmfao  Don't tell Ironstein

...and they speak English in Berlin.

i've seen them in Prague where they are like that, but certainly the ones i have been to which i mentioned are proper decent casinos with poker and your normal table games. Defo worth a look in next time you are over there.

Do It!!!

you joining us jack? more beer planned than your last challenge and it'll be over in a day so much less torture

It crossed my mind. Briefly.

I've never really enjoyed running. When I was pretty fit a couple of years ago, I gave it a try but it's just too much like hard work.

Is that a yes?

Stu hopkin?????!!!!

LOL

the 10,000 places at €60 euros sold out in 24 hours as opposed to the week it took last year which would suggest there's no way places will still be available in feb again. anyone considering this may need to register fairly soon

I'm in!!!

I know i can powerwalk a marathon so running one can't be that ard can it?  ;)

 :)up

better start getting fit......


Dear Mrs. Claire MacGregor

Your online registration has been processed under the order ID:  MA12-000652867 .

Pending the receipt of your final payment of 86,00  EUR, you are registered as follows:
Name:                       Claire MacGregor
Year of Birth:              1975
Event:                      39. BMW BERLIN-MARATHON
Participation:              42 km Lauf

You've gone and done it now!

I know.  fml. 

in seriousness i really do want to make some lifestyle changes, drop the fags, eat better, get fit.  getting regged for this seemed like a pretty good goal/motivator.  I will shortly be asking gatso to take me shoe shopping.

Cool, I'll give you that book tomorrow night if I remember

:)up only bring it if it will fit in my handbag though otherwise I will lose it

Handbag size?

rough guess i'd say 12" x 10" x 3".  It's already full of crap though, obv.

goals for november

read gatso's book

buy/read this book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nonrunners-Marathon-Guide-Women-Training/dp/1580052053/ref=pd_cp_b_3

search murky depths of back/bottom of wardrobe for trainers.

ditch the cigs.

do a bit of walking/jogging.

cut mcdonalds/kfc intake to 1 per week.

Good luck with this, and to the others too, better man than me :)

Started reading gatso's book this morning. Pretty inspiring stuff. For the first time since i contemplated signing up for this i'm full of confidence that i can and will cross that fininshing line next september. Mum just asked me what i want for christmas. I'm getting running shoes :)

excellent. I think that book is so good for beginners as it really gets you mentally prepared early on, something that's really important

interesting to see that you listed your nationality as german when you entered the marathon

oopsie.  can't see it'll cause any major problems though.

Hasn't really caused any problems for QEII.

I'll be starting my training tomorrow.

The old adage says 'don't run before you can walk' and I won't be.  When I commuted into London for work between the ages of 17 and 30 something I always did a fair bit of walking daily between home/stations/office.  These days I drive everywhere and, if I do have to walk somewhere now, I notice the difference.  A few months ago I was without my car for a week or so and after a couple of days of walking between the tube station and my office (pretty much bang on a mile each way) my legs were really aching a couple of days afterwards.  This is clearly not good and a sign of just how unfit I am right now.

As I said in an earlier post, I've started reading gatso's book* which seems like it's going to be a massive help not only with the physical side of things, but also with getting in the right frame of mind which is probably considerably more than half the battle when it comes to doing the long runs.  I can't remember how much has already been written about this book but here's a short excerpt from the introduction which gives a good overview:

"...In the spring semester of 1985 we taught for the first time what the students at the University of Northern Iowa now call "the marathon class".  We called it a seminar in Fitness and Mental Health and we had 14 students enrolled, none of whom had ever run more than three miles.....The class met twice a week for 15 weeks....Forrest taught one of the classes each week and lectured on such topics as cardiovascular functioning, proper hydration and nutrition.  Dave taught the other class session and talked with the students about believing in themselves and using mental imagery to get through the long tough training days....when the training was done we took them to participate in [a] marathon.  They all finished.

"We have taught the course four more times since then [over 200 students].  Our participants have ranged in age from 18 to 55.  Well over half of them have been women.  Almost none had ever run more than three miles prior to training with us.  Every time, all the students have finished the marathon [with one exception]."

The course turned out to be so popular that the students and lecturers came up with the idea of putting it all together in a book.  Fundamentally, it is a 16 week training programme aimed at enabling anyone to complete a marathon.  There is a presumption that, on commencing the 16 week programme, the reader can run a distance of 3 miles.  Not me.  Not yet.

Quite handy, then, that the book also includes a 10 week preliminary training programme to help any old sod reach that stage.  The idea is you choose where you are and jump in at that level.  Given my current state of unfitness and the fact that there is plenty of time ahead, I'm going to start this week, right at the beginning, hopefully enabling my legs and body to gradually get used to exercising again and working harder.

So, the 'training' goal for this week is 3 walks, at moderate pace, of 30 minutes each, the first of which I'll be doing tomorrow evening.  Next week it's the same again, with one extra walk thrown in.  Week 3 is three 30 minute walks at a fast pace, and week 4 is four 45 minute fast walks.  All should be fairly easy going, and a good foundation for week 5 when I dig out the shock absorber and start doing some actual jogging :D

Actually really looking forward to getting started :)up

*The Non-Runner's Marathon Trainer by David A Whitsett, Forrest A Dogener and Tanjala Mabon Kole

The very best of luck with this Claire - impressive stuff  :)up

approaching the end of week one. tempting as it is to do a detailed (and boring) write up I shall resist.  In summary though, I've done a lot of walking this week and improved my diet.  Unintentional at this stage (but good) side-effects are that my caffeine intake has dropped considerably (more than 50%), as has the amount I've been smoking (about 25%).  I've also been sleeping much better and generally feeling more energetic and less stressed.  I weighed myself a couple of weeks ago for the first time in months and was coming in at 10 st 1.5 lbs.  Hopped on the scales this morning out of interest and am now 9 st 12.5 lbs :)

The temptation to skip a bit ahead of myself on the schedule and start doing some running now is immense, but I don't want to fall into what I believe is a fairly common trap of trying to do too much too soon and doing more harm than good.  It turns out my natural walking speed is a bit faster than I gave myself credit for though, so might adjust the next couple of weeks' walking plans a bit doing more mileage to make sure I'm walking for long enough.

i would think some time between week 6 and 8 is gonna be THE perfect time to give up smoking, will greatly help the running and the running will help with the putting on weight problem that affects a lot of people when giving up.

week 2 done and dusted.  Early stages still going well.  Managed to avoid junk food completely this week, and my diet coke addiction has dropped from at least 2 litres a day to about 2 litres over the course of the week with fruit juice and water replacing.  Had too many coffees though :)

My official 'training' this week was 4x fast 2 mile walks, all of which I did and enjoyed.  On top of that I probably put in another 6-7 miles in 1-1.5 mile walks over the week.  Next week it's 3x 3.5 mile walks, with 4 3.5 mile walks the week after. (this is slightly adapted from the actual preliminary programme)

D day for ciggies is tomorrow.  I had been planning on knocking those on the head when I actually started doing some running but a combo of actually feeling ready to quit now and being pretty skint has spurred me on.  Got some nicotine lozenge things to help me along.

Haven't weighed myself yet (will do in the morning if i remember) but my usual jeans (which were getting a bit snug) now require a belt again :)

Oh, and I'm british now :)

Good stuff Claire

Don't overdo the oj though, it's good to cut down on all the crap in diet coke but if you swap for juice then you're increasing your calorie intake. Liquid calories are dangerous as you don't really notice them

Obv keep up the coffee levels though, caramel macchiatos are very much ftw

yeah I know.  I was saying to someone last night I doubt my intake in terms of calories has dropped much.  It's probably risen actually coz before i wasn't eating regularly, just eating crap sporadically.  It's pretty much all good stuff going in now though and I'm making an effort to eat brekkie every day which I was pretty bad at before.  Not actually trying to lose weight anyway, just a bit of a bonus if i drop a few pounds.

What do you runny types think about the Eddie Izzard 43 marathon thingy?

ridic good obviously. a few others have done similar over the last couple of years but none in quite the same way, they weren't chubby comedians who stopped off en route for icecream

possibly the most ridic endurance race I've heard of recently was last years deca ironman. this is 10 times the normal ironman distance so a 24 mile swim followed by a 1,160 mile cycle topped off with a 260 mile run all done in one go. as if this wasn't bad enough some people did a double-deca so a 48 mile swim, 2,320 mile cycle followed by 20 full marathons

I can't find last year's results but there was one in 1998 that was won in over 437 hours

I now have an interim goal

http://www.sheffieldmarathon.com/enter/how/

anyone else fancy it?

running is harder than I remember.

Missed this earlier, but wow!

nearly the end of November.  Started reading gatso's book - not ordered the other one yet.  

Got new running shoes, done a lot of walking and did my first bit of running yesterday morning.  I say 'running', in reality it was 'just' running for 5 mins/walking for 5 minutes x3.  Sounds dead easy.  After the first five minutes my ankles were killing and felt like lead.  Got it done though.   Spent most of the rest of the day a mixture of feeling pretty tired and wanting to go out and do it again :) Today my inner thighs ache.  Quite a satisfying feeling really - after initially feeling a bit overwhelmed that i'd struggle to even do this simple start to the training it's kind of reassuring to feel like I have done some exercise that is going to have some benefit if it's making me ache.

ditching the fags - meh.  Managed a few days on only a couple a day but lapsed back into it since.  The trouble with nicotine replacement is it makes me feel really dizzy and sick - nearly crashed the car after having a quarter of a lozenge on the first day.  Need to rethink strategy.  Last time I 'successfully' gave up I used some of those horrible herbal cigarettes you can buy from health food shops every time I felt the urge to smoke.  They're so disgusting it only took a few days of that before i didn't smoke at all.  If that doesn't work I'm going to see the doctor to ask about champix - a few family members have used it successfully after numerous failed attempts.

Junk food count - McDonalds 0  KFC 1 (today :))

Will set some goals for December at some point in the next couple of days.

weight sitting at 9st 11lb for last week or so

Keep the updates coming Claire. Other peoples self discipling type projects really interest me.

Good luck BTW.

Electronic cigarette has worked for me. I've been fag free since Feb, still use the e-cig, but a lot less than when I started. I'm currently alternating between Maple Waffle and French Apple Tart.

thank you, I will.  another post coming in a minute.  I wish the others would post too though - feel like i'm monopolising what's supposed to be a group thread (but I guess the others have a big head start on me :D)

Yep. gatters deffo has a start in the big head stakes.

I've got a confession to make.  I fibbed a bit in my last post.  Before I clear it all up I'm going to explain why.  When I first decided I was going to do this and started telling people, the reaction was mostly positive and encouraging.  There have, however, been a range of other responses ranging from laughter (from people who assumed I was joking) to outright 'you'll never do it', 'you'll collapse' etc.  That's fine - those people have actually made me more determined to do it than anything.

So, when I set out last Sunday for my first half hour run/walk and found it much harder than I expected I started to doubt myself.  I didn't get it done (as I said I had).  Well I did, but not to the letter.  I ran for five minutes.  After the end of those five minutes, as documented, I started feeling a lot of pain in my ankles/achilles which didn't let up until after I'd finished - even the walking parts were really quite tough.  By the time I got to the last five minutes of running I couldn't sustain it - instead I just ran for two minutes, walked a bit more, then maybe ran another 1 minute.  I didn't want to come back and post that on here because I could imagine as an outsider reading that it would look like I was already failing.  Privately, I wasn't disheartened though - I was pleased with what I'd done, and continue to be so.  So, from now on, it's warts and all honesty.

My inner thighs ached for two days after that first bout - a stark reminder of how unfit I really am.

I went out for my second session on Wednesday evening.  Again, the pain around the ankles kicked in after the first five minutes but, other than that, I comfortably managed the whole 5+5x3.  I started out along the same route but had to detour a bit at the end as I was covering more distance than the first time.  So on Sunday I covered 2.2 miles, and on Wednesday 2.4.  Quite remarkably (I thought anyway) I didn't suffer with any aching at all following that session.  It reallly is quite amazing how quickly the body can adapt from years of intertia to becoming relatively fit.

Today I did my third and final session of the week - same again.  This time it wasn't until part way through the second 5 minutes of jogging that I started feeling it in my ankles and it wasn't nearly as bad as previously - just a kind of mild ache.  Got through the whole thing pretty comfortably and covered a distance of 2.8 miles.

To most people I'm sure these seem like tiny improvements and achievements but to me they feel massive. Although there's a hell of a lot of work still to do and a long way to go, I feel bloody proud of myself :)

Claire. It doesn't matter in the slightest how little you can do at first, just keep it up and you are guaranteed to improve.

The biggest danger is over doing it in the beginning. That's the mistake that most people make.

When I first started jogging last Christmas I couldn't run 100 yds, but I managed to build it up to 3 miles or so over a period of a few weeks.

Just keep doing it and be proud.

I can see how easy it is to fall into this trap - it's quite addictive.  On Thursday I had to pop over to see someone a mile or so away. Instead of walking I considered trying to run the whole way and back again (in addition to the planned schedule) but had to talk myself out of it.  Discipline and avoiding injuries ftw.

sigh

I've got nothing of interest to post on here at the moment, got a niggly calf so mostly resting it atm as I've got the bedford half marathon next sunday and want to be fit for that

have only done one 10 miler in the last 9 days. might do a 5k race tomorrow but will decide on that last minute, depends how the leg feels when I wake up

Question for the experts...

Is it possible for claw to get prepared fully for a full marathon, basically starting from scratch, or would half marathons be better prep? Apologies if this is the plan and I have missed it somewhere.

take a look at the link to the amazon page for the book gatso lent me.  that is a 16 week training plan that can get anyone who can run 3 miles to complete a marathon (but without any time goals or anything).  Obv got much longer than 16 weeks to prepare.  My first goal is a half marathon at the end of May.

are you asking coz you fancy joining us?

lolz, can you imagine me running a marathon?

no, i was asking, just cos I was wondering if what you are attempting is out of the ordinary. Half marathon before will help obv.

Oh, and I think you're mad :) but gl tho.

Good point - should try and see how other people are doing



How's your training going Joobz?

i have spent the last 2 weeks carb loading (fat and sugar loading too)  i should be ready to run soon :)

about as much as I could imagine me running one a couple of months ago!

I'd say that if you're willing to follow a training plan then 6 months is plenty to go from a complete non-runner to running a marathon. less is doable but not ideal and I'd certainly not recommend it, more is just a brucie bonus

Also, a half marathon is usually part of the 16 week programme for a marathon, so you are doing a half before you do the full 26 miles.

just to keep claw happy I'll update

decided to do the 5k race today but figured I'd just jog it, go for about 21:30 just to test out my leg

that plan sure went well, ended up with another 2nd place and a 19:26. I'm rubbish at just going slowly though I did hold back a bit and made sure to just do enough to keep clear of the guy in 3rd place

now having a week of rest before doing the bedford half next sunday

well done gatso.  tempted to make a jason herbert joke but don't think it'd go down too well.

I've got a bit of a manic week ahead so going to be a bit of a juggling act to fit in my required three sessions, so, straight into it today with 10 min jog/5 min walk x 2.

herbie joke please

gl with the 10min jog

Quite pleased with how that went considering I don't think I've done more than 10 mins continuous jogging since school.  Must've made a mistake calculating the distance of yesterday's session though as I took a very slightly longer route today which is showing as 2.58 miles.  1 mile of that was covered in the first 10 minutes, which felt really good.  The middle third of the second 10 minutes was uphill and very slow going.  I did consider coming off road into a small park and doing the rest of the jog there, but a voice in my head said 'get up the hill Loser' :)  Wasn't until the last minute of the second jog that I felt like it was time to stop, and by the time I'd finished the second 5 minute walk felt absolutely fine.

10-minute mile pace isn't slow at all.  I'd dare say you're actually running too quickly at the moment.  You're looking to build your distance, so you should be running more slowly (imo).

You can only build your pace or speed at any one time. To run faster, you run shorter distances at a fast pace.  To increase your distance, you slow down and run further. 

For reference, a 10-minute mile pace for a marathon would mean you'd do it in about 4 hours 25 minutes.

I dunno - it didn't feel 'fast' (eg when I was walking I was covering a mile in 13-14 minutes so not a great deal quicker than that).  The preliminary plan I'm following at the moment just says to jog at a comfortable pace for 10 (or whatever) minutes and not worry about the distance covered (I'm only looking it up myself afterwards out of interest).  If I try to artificially slow down (rather than when i'm forced coz I'm going uphill or something) is there not a danger that I won't actually get any benefit out of it?  And won't it balance itself a bit as I start running for longer (next week is 15 min jog/5 min walk x2, followed by 20/5 x2)?

13-minute mile pace is still a jogging pace (5 hour 40 minute marathon).

You're looking to increase the distance you can run, so yes, you will get benefit from running longer distances but at a slower pace. 

If gatso starts his marathon training, but continues to run at his 5k pace (which is pretty quick), then he's never going to be able to get the mileage in and he won't be training properly for the marathon.  Of course, you want to do some speed training if you're aiming for a time, so some of his runs will be at this pace, but the vast majority of his training mileage will be at a far slower pace.

agree with dan. I'd say 10m/mile is too fast for you right now. I know plenty of people who've been running for years who can't do a 60min 10k, it took me quite a while to get to that point

slow it down a bit, give your body time to adjust or you're risking injury

it's a great sign though, you're probs not going to be a really slow runner if you think that pace is easy already

absolutely

I do my long runs at a much slower pace

Dan, what's your target time for Berlin?  I want to do 3 hours 30, but reckon I'll fall short (again), and so 3 hours 40 is probably my realistic target.

hard to say, not run more than 10k in a race even though I've done much longer in training. pretty sure I could do 3:00 if I wasn't so lazy, 3:10 would be great for a london gfa, 3:30 is laziness realistic

cheers lads - i'm going to just do what feels comfy for now and listen to my body and not push it.  I'm not really thinking at all right now (maybe I should be?) about what pace I'm planning to run the marathon at, as that seems pretty daunting.  I'm looking to meet shorter term goals first - the first one being to be able to jog continuously (regardless of distance) for 30 minutes in 4-5 weeks time.  After that I'm planning on doing a couple of 5k races, and then I'll be starting my training for the half marathon where I'll be building up the mileage and paying much more attention to how slow/fast I need to be going to get the distance covered.

You should be looking at 3 hours 15 mins as a realistic target with your 5K time (assuming you can add the endurance to the speed). Berlin's a fast course too, so probably makes it easily doable for you.

Exactly, therefore slow down.  You're not looking to run a particular distance in a set time, you're just trying to run for 30 minutes.  So run more slowly!

I actually think my 5k time is slow though. I've PBed 8 races in a row so still improving it. I'll be very surprised if I don't get it under 19 minutes


god no

Well, 3 hours 15 mins should be a breeze in all honesty. 

Claw, forget the concept of pace completely for now.  Forget distance too.  One thing matters, time on your feet spent running in minutes.

lol I wasn't thinking about pace until you told me to slow mine :D

Of course you were. You told me what pace you were running, and that you felt as though 13 min/mile was too slow. 

Forget completely the distance you're covering, sod the speed, just run slowly for as long as you can until you reach the initial targets.

but it's not something i'm consciously thinking about when I'm running.  as I said, it felt slow to me, and i only looked up the distances afterwards purely out of interest.  to go any slower would mean consciously thinking about it instead of just doing what feels comfy which is my only 'plan' atm.  I'm getting quite confused now.

Make a conscious effort to run slower.

Really dont worry Claire, back in Feb I was struggling to run 1k!
As long as you keep at it you can do a bit more every time.

Currently lost my mojo for Xmas so I am only doing about 15-20k a week plus a spin class

Signed up for the same half marathon as Dan in March and will be commencing training for that Jan 3rd
Target time is 2hr 10mins which i think is very realistic and achievable.
Then going to do another half marathon in the summer to get used to doing it warm. Target 2hr
Therefore aiming around the 4hr 30min mark for Berlin.

#runningforbratwurst

"15-20k a week plus a spin class" - not the end of the world, will keep you ticking over until you get going again in the New Year. 

Travelling to Bath for the half marathon in March, so excited, I hear there is a Nandos there.

feel like I've taken a bit of a backwards step tonight (someone tell me this is normal please!).  I set out tonight to do the same as I did on Sunday - 10 mins jog/5 min walk x2.  Sunday was my first attempt at this, and I found it relatively easy going, no aches or pains and felt really exhilarated afterwards.  I expected (naively?) that going out to do it today for the second time would be much the same.  (although I did make a conscious effort to go slower :)).

About 6-7 minutes in the ankles started to ache again like they did the first time I went out a couple of weeks ago.  They just about eased up during the 5 minute walk.  The second 10 minute jog was a complete disaster.  As soon as I started jogging again so did the aching, and then a tightening on the right side of my right shin......

.....Digressing slightly for a second - over the past couple of years I've been suffering on and off with an undiagnosed pain which radiates from my right hip down the side of the front of my right thigh and inwards a couple of inches into my groin.  Had some physio for it in the summer (although the physio still didn't really know what was causing it) and kind of stopped for a few months, but started playing up sporadically again a couple of months ago once the temperature started to drop.  Of course, it's sod's law that I only said to Delboy today that I'd not had any problems with it since I'd started out exercising.  

....not really knowing at this stage whether that type of pain is best 'run through' or not, I started to walk for a bit.  And the old pain described above said hello again for the first time in ages :(  Couple of minutes later it eased off and I started jogging again and it hit straight back along with the pain in the shin.  Shin/ankles fine now, but my old friend is hanging around.

So tonight I ended up doing 10 minutes sloooow jogging, 5 min walk, then about 2 mins jogging, with the remainder almost entirely walked.  I'm not going to be going out again now until Saturday morning and pretty unsure what to expect, but for the first time since I started I'm not looking forward to it.

just occured to me that maybe time of day could be a factor - sunday went out relatively early in the day after a decent night's kip/relaxing morning.  Today went out after long day at work preceded by a pretty bad night's sleep......

do you get any back pain at the same time? could be a problem/tight psoas

My back does give me gip now and again since I slipped a disc years back when Hannah was a baby.  Doesn't seem to be any correlation between the two though (i.e. they don't play me up at the same time) and, touch wood, the back's given me no bother at all for a good few weeks - the exercise really seems to be helping with that.

I'm obv not in anyway medically qualified, but I'm pretty sure it's not muscular (it's not usually aggravated by physical movement), and it just doesn't feel like that 'type' of pain.  X ray last year ruled out anything skeletal.  Think it's probs most likely a problem with a trapped nerve or something.

This week has been pretty much a wash-out for me training-wise.  Was always going to be a tricky one to fit the runs in as had a lot on, and Tuesday's disaster didn't really help matters.  So, I'm rolling back the training plan one week and going for the 10/5/10/5  jog/walks again three times over the coming week.

I've also just set up sponsorship pages for both the marathon and the May half marathon to help concentrate the mind and spur me on a bit.  Spam in my sig :)

The links take us to your log in page.

tyty - fixied :)

gatso's guide to half marathon race prep

don't run with an injury that hurts just walking to the start

do not have an all day drinking session the day before as this will lead to you only getting 3 hours sleep

do not have an all day drinking session the day before as you will forget to eat and get to the race having not had solids for 36 hours

do not have an all day drinking session the day before as you will start the race unsure as to whether you are hungover or still drunk

if you're going to have an all day drinking session the day before then include several jugs of cocktails. the fruit juice will at least ensure that you're hydrated

do your laces up properly so  you don't have to stop halfway and do them with a brain that's turned to mush and can't figure out how to tie knots

get to the start early. starting at the back of a 2,000 runner race taking part on narrow lanes is not conducive to a fast start

Went well?

1:37:26

A very good time.  :)up

Any room for a little one?

I haven't ran for about a year and I need a challenge.

I've never run more than 10K before and my best time was 53 mins :( if I get back up to 10K strength before end of Jan I'm in :)

 
absolutely  :)up

Whee - nice one bam :)up

Bit harsh.  Fair, but harsh.

that's what I tried to type but the abuse filter modified it. I see mods are immune from that

just been out for a little run. I hurt everywhere except where I was injured. not sure if that's good or not

Witnessed Claire sprint to the smoking cage, and sprint back to her table last night. Def quicker than the last time I saw her do that.

Don't tell boshi I was sprinting ffs.

did i say sprinting? sorry, i meant perfectly paced run there and back.

ffs can vinny stop posting itt as I keep looking thinking I am going to reading that he is participating.......

lol, exactly my thought when I saw he'd posted earlier this afternoon. stop letting you fans down vin, sign up

You both know Santa's not real, right?

Rest assured all, I will NEVER be signing up for this marathon, or any other marathon.

Admire anybody that can do this sort of thing.

How about this one?

(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSyD3hT6lNKFbU2p4EBo2KjU1JLh-6m5pjQEugFCVPFuymwGacl)

went out tonight for first time since disaster-jog last week.

crushed it imo :)

Gonna start analysing factors shortly, although initial findings suggest chatting to vinny before going running is -EV, as is listening to the stereophonics:  Vaccines +EV. 

Yeah he is. He created the world and everything in seven days. Says so in the bible. Oh hang on, was that another fictional bearded chap?

God created Santa too ya know.  Be careful or the lightening bolts will get ya.

surely god created lucifer. he only became santa when he was cast out of heaven

hopeful of an announcement in the very near future of yet another addition to team blonde

Or two.....

This so called 'Team blonde'. Are they all running Berlin or are some just doing Sheffield?

When is Sheffield?

everyone is doing berlin, think claire's the only one doing sheffield

yeah just me doing sheffield.  it's at the end of may.  fancy it tom?

Would I have to wear skimpy shorts and a vest?

you could do if you want to look serious, or could wear some kind of fancy dress get up.  Super mario perhaps?

just back from my final run (10/5/10/5) of this week.  was a bit dubious before heading out as the hip/groin thing had been niggling again this morning, but didn't give me any bother while I was out.  A little bit of chest tightness towards the end of the first 10 minute run, but that was all really.  For the first time, I actually found the second 10 minutes much more comfortable than the first. 

Tomorrow I'll be going for my first 15/5/15/5.

Berlin Marathon sold out on 8th December by the look of things

What would my training programme look like?

bit of running, jumping, platforms, magic mushrooms, that kind of thing.

really good session today.  Must be the first time I've run for 15 minutes in one go since school - and I did it twice!  Slightly more challenging than a walk in the park, but really enjoyed it and actually didn't want to stop when it was time. 

Had a good long chat with my dad on the phone this afternoon too.  He lives out in Spain and we don't get to catch up much barring the odd chat on facebook.  Similar to me, he decided, back in his mid 30s, to get off his arse and get fit:  ran a couple of marathons, progressed on to triathlons  then spent several years working as a fitness instructor.  One thing I've realised since starting the training is that everyone's got different ideas about the 'right' way to do things, and for someone like me who basically knows nothing, all the conflicting input can be confusing.  Feeling much happier after my chat with my old man with where I am now, what I've achieved so far, and the road ahead :)

Is it better for the training that you stop even if you feel you could carry on for longer?

I've got loads of time, and what I don't want to do is overdo it early doors and risk pushing myself too far and potentially getting injured.  This morning was the first time I'd moved up to 15 minute bursts of running (each followed by 5 minutes walking), so to try to do more even though I felt like it had it in me probably wouldn't have been the best idea.  Next week it'll be 20/5/20/5, followed by 25/5, and the week after I should be continuously running for 30 mins.

Taking it easy and being sensible ftw

Very much so, overtraining can be worse than undertraining for a couple of reasons

Firstly there's the risk of injury especially early on when the body isn't used to the new range of movements

And then there's the problem of fatigue which is very difficult to spot but will affect your training massively. Most people won't notice they're fatigued unless they stop exercising for some reason and will just train through it only the training will be nowhere near as effective as it should be

Depends on the person, some people just train better than others. I go REALLY slow for a week or two, as I always get bad DOMS to begin with. Then happily run 5-6 miles without any problems, or soreness, the next day.

As Gatso said, you feel fine when running but its in the following days when you find out if you have overdone it. Depends on your exercise experience too. Many, many moons ago I exercised and competed a lot, so have an awareness of what works and what doesn't, same for kinbo and Gatso I expect

You're doing great Claire. Not only are you completing the required leg work, you're wanting more at the end.

Gatso's book seems to be working wonders, stick to what it says. As you say, you have plenty of time.

thanks boss man :)

posting on here to give myself a kick up the arse.  apart from one run on new year's eve i've been a total couch potato since xmas.  back on it tomorrow - only 4.5 months til the 1/2 marathon so can't afford to slack off any longer.

WELL DONE!!!!! I'm proud of you!! keep the updates coming :-) Perhaps we should start a females gym thread.... though my exercises will include more classes rather than running!!

I thought this was my one out but thinboshi said try the charity places. So in a half hearted attempt to fail I chose a smaller one and didn't pledge a lot.

They phoned me yesterday I have a place sigh :(

Please can someone chalk up flight dates hotels etc.

Oh and my running diary looks like Hopkins diary from last year.

Lol @ thinboshi. After years of trying bam finally makes me laugh.

Mmm,thinboshi and celthic.

Haha. You weren't think thinny or thincent then?

Correct.

Awesome

I will look at flights hotels next week.

Good man.

unlucky bam

wrt flights claw and I are going out friday morning, back tuesday evening

if anyone is planning on flying out on the saturday don't forget you have to get to the expo before it closes to get your chip and whatever else you need to do so don't travel late in the day or you won't be running

Errr

Flights luton with EasyJet £101 but leaving at 6am on the Saturday

Balls to that

Lufthansa Brum to Berlin 13.05 Sat
Brussels airlines Berlin - Brussels - Brum 19.00 Tues

Much better £113

That gets in at what time, and what time is the Expo open till to get our chips?

expo only open til 6 on the saturday. that flight's not going to be due in til 4ish, think you need to look at an earlier one

Lol

They dont like twin rooms in Berlin

Not sure what your thinking room wise, Sophles might be coming but also might not be.

Charlottenburg Hotel Motel Holiday Inn £400 for 3 nights?

Balls

They seem to have cut the flights down a lot

Might leave it a bit to see if the EMA - Berlin ones come on sale on the right days in the next month or so.

Where you getting all this detail from? I don't remember seeing it on the site, and haven't anything from them...

from the main marathon site


expo info is here http://www.berlin-vital.de/english/2012/fall/home/index.html

It definitely works in the same way as London does in terms of having to go and get your number?  There's no option to get it sent to you (you can't at London, and I'd assumed it would be the same for Berlin, but thought it might possibly be different)?

guess that depends on how london works

I'm assuming that in the quote in my post above when they refer to getting your race number that's also when you get your chip but that's only an assumption

For London they send everything to you in the post, other than your chip. You go to the Expo to get your chip and have it registered to your race number.

On the Berlin site it mentions "Race number distribution" - so I guess that isn't sent to the runners like it is for London.  But I wasn't sure if they had a different practice for overseas runners?

the german language site also says numbers are given out at the expo, exactly the same

Yeah, but my question is if there's an alternative procedure for foreigners travelling from overseas.  I don't think there is for London, but having never travelled from overseas to London...

doubt it as there's no mention of it on the UK microsite

can call organisers and ask if you like.

What you can do in London is have someone collect your stuff on your behalf.  You need to give them (the person collecting on your behalf) a signed letter giving them authorisation and a photocopy of your passport. 

I'm sure they'll send something out in the post soon anyway.

mid august

Oh, that's quite close to the race :D

no worries - german postal service is efficient! :D

Hopefully more efficient than their online entry process...

welcome aboard BAM :)up

No still just trying....

Only just seen this.... Looks like I might be coming, as it's only like taking 2/3 days off work!! :-)

kinda changed tack with the training over the last couple of weeks and replaced the jogging/walking with continuous running and just kept going til it stopped feeling comfy.  Gradually building up, adding a minute or two each time.  Due to circumstances beyond my control (Gary's had man-flu) I haven't been able to go out for about a week.  Last time I managed 22 minutes, so would have been happy enough with equaling that tonight.  Felt really comfy passing the 20 minute point and decided that I was just going to push on for the full 30 minutes which is my first big goal.  25 mins still going nicely, and I started mentally composing my post on here about how I'd done it, yay, and all that.  Then at 27 minutes everything changed very suddenly - ankles started hurting, and I got a stitch.  Determined to do that last three minutes I pushed on but had to stop at 28 :(

Still, the longest I've run continuously in probably my whole life, and looking back it's only really been a few weeks since I was struggling to go for anything more than 5 mins at a time, so pretty chuffed overal. And, hopefully, I should hit that magic 30 next time I go out :)

Well done darling.

thank you sweetheart.

just checked how far I went (don't tell kinboshi).  2.7 miles.  I'm good enough at maths to know that that's more than 10 mins per mile (you can tell boshi that bit).

Run slower ffs.

Lol - this might sound weird but i really can't unless i drop to a walk or start going in slow-motion a la baywatch.

In other news, weighed myself this morning for first time since just after xmas (had obv put a few lbs back on). Down to 9st 8lbs showing a total loss of 7.5lb since starting moving :)

Bollocks.  If you're running at about 10 min/mile pace you can easily run at 12 min/mile pace.  That'd help you be able to run for longer.  Then when you've got used to running for more 30-60mins, you can then increase the pace.

no need for that!  OK, let me rephrase.  I don't know how to slow it down.  as it is I am jogging as slowly as I can without walking.  I don't know how to adapt my form/stride/whatever I am doing to make it slower so if I really need to slow down (which I'm not entirely sure I do because other people I have spoken to have said my current pace is fine) I will need someone to watch me run and tell me how to do it.

You slow down by either reducing the length of your stride, or reducing the cadence.

Thanks.

It's ok though i'm getting some advice from a nice man on a running forum who appears to be able to give it without being incredibly patronising :)

That's OK then, love.

Missed 'Joggers nipple' joke opportunity imo.

having lost a fair bit of enthusiasm since the xmas slump, it's not taken a lot for me to talk myself out of the odd session.

Tonight I was this >--< close to just staying inside in the warm.  Soooo glad I didn't though - yes it was bloody freezing, but had what I think was easily my most comfortable run yet.  Two barriers broken tonight too - my first >30min run, and also my first >3mile run.  ;yippee;

feeling dead chuffed with myself now (go me - yay!), and rather than being glad the run is over I can't wait to get out again now  ;sark;

 :)up

Keep at it Clare. I like my burds to be fit, even if it does make them harder to catch.

you'd make a great benny hill imo :)

Good job you're running the marathon and not the steeplechase.

or relying on condoms.

had to part with my  fave running socks today, they got a hole in them. quite a sad moment

:(

I can't find one of mine.  It's ok though, because the ones I nicked off Holdy in the 'most elaborate ruse to nick a pair of socks ever' are pretty good for running in too it turns out.

Save them for golf imo....

sorry tom, if I'd realised you were ready to strike I'd have set it up better

had to part with my  fave running socks today, got a hole in one. quite a sad moment

Save them for golf imo!  :D

 ;tightend; ;applause; ;hattip; ;cupcake; rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao

any tips for running in the snow (other than 'don't do it' or 'avoid the yellow bits')?

presuming it's best to stick to grass if possible?

It is possible.

Remove pants, sit on grass. Trust me, you will stick. Job done.

I've been out for a lovely enjoyable 3h 20 min run in the snow this morning. I had my trail shoes on and felt like evilpie with his winter tyres but a couple of friends were in normal running shoes and no-one had any problems with grip

sticking to fresh snow is best as that's not slippy but tbh you're a lot less likely to slip while jogging along than while walking

Ok gonna go out in an hour or so.  will blame gatso when i fall over.

there's also the added bonus that when I left home my shoes were caked in mud from the last time I took them offroading, now they are spotless and all shiny

One thing I forgot to wear today was sunglasses! The rest of my kit was spot on though I made a schoolboy by not wearing the protective shades.

I washed all my running gear earlier and it's still not dry.  i think it's god's way of telling me to have a rest on the sabbath.

How far did you go?  Must have been well over 20 miles at the pace you run.

Love running in the snow, not so keen when it all turns to mush and slush though and feet get sodden.  My Salomons are pretty good at keeping my feet dry though, my road shoes aren't quite so effective.

I'm going to guess 17.5 miles

Did I miss where he said how far he ran?

:D

lol nah - saw it on facebook earlier.

either that, or I'm magic.

only did 17 1/2 miles, slow run in general made slower by doing the first third with some 11-12 minute milers until they turned for home and plenty of stops for photos and checking out the wildlife. much more of a social event than a training run until we upped the pace for the last few miles. saw a heron on the thames which was a first

New half marathon pencilled in

Leeds 13th May

Target time still 2.15

come do the sheffield one on 27th May instead.

target time around 4 hours :D

In Cyprus unfortunately ....

Piss up on the 11th?

That gives you a full gay day to recover before your crazy jog type thing.

Ok page up :)

http://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/BrianMartin

Bam you got flights sorted or anything

Ran the roding valley half marathon today, so hard, ridic amount of hills all of which seemed to be up. Gotta be delighted with 1:29:21. Now need to work on doing that pace over double the distance

Brilliant time. You'll easily be targeting 3:15 for Berlin. You reckon you might be looking closer to three hours?

I've got Silverstone in about a month's time, well hopefully. Managed to sprain my ankle last Sunday and haven't been able to run on it since, and it's still swollen and sore. Glad I'm not running London this year as the timing would be terrible. Thankfully, plenty of time to recover for the tr24 and then Berlin.

3:10 has to be the target as it's GFA

Anything better would be a bonus, I'm definitely capable of sub 3 but doubt I'd do enough training to get there, that may also be a problem with 3:10

Nah I'm not that organised.

I did run 10k yesterday though..... trouble is it took me an hour and I can't walk today :(

Longest run to date last night

15.25k

Boom

Nice.  When you looking to do your first half-marathon?

Regged for the Leeds one 13th May

Oioi!

Drinkies?

Sunday Lunch?

Booked!

FYP ;)

Sigh

Only joshing mate.  Still love you really.

Its all good

Well its not

I cant walk today, I woke up in the night and thought I had broken both my knees!

Advice please Kin/Gat;

Can you get running shoes specially made?
I have fat/wide feet, always have. And the inside edge of both feet is getting rubbed to pieces as I run and its obv only going to get worse.
Anything I can do?

Running shoes are available in a number of widths, if you go to a specialist running shop they will measure your feet.... and maybe pop you on a treadmill and look at your running style to see how your foot strikes and what type of shoe to recommend. That said, you can always buy last years models which will be half the price of this years!

There is a lot of science and a lot of pseudoscience behind running shoes.  The industry is worth billions of pounds a year to the shoe manufacturers, so they have an interest in trying to get you to buy their shoes.  A lot of the 'science' surrounding running shoes is just actually marketing.  In recent years there's been a massive boom in the minimalist/barefoot market, which is now worth over a £1 billion a year.  Again though, the science behind this is disputed.

I've been in running shops where the well-meaning 'expert' has advised me on a particular shoe, even though it's not suitable for the way I run. 
Basically, I'd be sceptical about any 'advice' given out without assessing the merits of what's being said and if there's any bias behind it.  So, that takes you back to Stu and his specific issues (with his feet, that is).

Your feet getting rubbed to pieces isn't good, obviously.  Sounds like you need a shoe with a bigger toe-box.  Also, it might mean your feet are moving around in your shoe too much if they are too loose?  Could also be a problem with your socks too, and them not protecting your feet from the rubbing.

What shoes have you got at the moment?
What socks do you use?

What works for me might not work for you, and that's the problem with a lot of the 'expert advice' with running shoes.  You did mention you've got weird feet anyway, so you might need something to specifically address the issues you're having because of them.

Interesting articles:

http://sportspodiatryinfo.wordpress.com/2011/02/02/choosing-running-shoes-the-evidence-behind-the-recommendations/

and

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4185

I could post a photograph of my running shoes if that would help.

You didnt have these problems when you were boozing mate!

Seems like a fairly simple resolution to me!

Bit of an uphill battle ahead here.  Got hit by a nasty cold a few weeks ago that developed into a chest infection that wouldn't shift.  After a week of antibiotics it's almost cleared now, and I'm going to start training again tomorrow.

I'm now faced with the reality of being signed up to run a half marathon in just 11 weeks time, having never run more than 3 miles in my life, and only having done that a handful of times.  Just going to concentrate on building up as much as I can over those weeks without overdoing it, and will be happy if I can do the full course at the end of May without having to walk some of the way (actually, I'd still probably be pretty happy if I finished it even with some walking thrown in :))

Sponsorship has been slow, but when a donation has come in it's been hugely motivating so if anyway wants to click on the linkies in my sig and give some money to a good cause, then please feel free :)

Yeah weird wide feet, slightly strange walk which I assume translates into my run from walking on my toes from age 1-10. Sigh

You been in any of the Nottingham shops? Up and Running or Sweatshop?

They dont seem lose, I just have a pair of Asics running shoes and some gay little Puma training socks.

Tried the moulded insoles but they really made my toes hurt so chucked them in the bin

Everything else is fine now just need to stop the inside edge of each foot looking like I have leprosy.

Sounds like you might need to go for a shoe that has a wide toe-box, giving your toes space so they don't rub.

I've been to the Sweatshop (that's the one at the Virgin whatsit isn't it?) and  Up and Running.  The Up and Running people might be more helpful at a guess.  They might suggest shoes that have roomy toe-boxes for you, and I think certain makes tend to fit differently - for example, Adidas tend to be narrower than Nike or New Balance.  Also, some makes will have shoes in different width fittings and that might be helpful for you.

Best to try them on obviously, but if they haven't got exactly what you need (such as wider fittings in stock), then you might want to try online.  A lot of places allow you to return shoes free of charge, or at worst it's a few quid anyway, but then you can track down exactly the ones you want.

When you run, do you run on your toes?  The 'minimalist' shoes like the ones I've just got have really wide toe-boxes to allow the toes to 'splay' as you land, but they have virtually no cushioning in the midsole so aren't for everyone.

Might even be worth looking at something slightly different, like the Newton shoes: http://www.newtonrunning.co.uk/newton-products/the-shoes/mens-shoes/men-stability-guidance-trainer.html  According to that site they stock them in Sweatshop, so you could try them on and use the treadmill there to get an idea of them before you buy. On the US site, they have wide-fitting ones: http://newtonrunning.com/shoes/mens-shoes/men-guidance-trainer/neutral-guidance-trainer-wide - but not sure if they're available in the UK...

 

I use these socks, but they don't suit everyone:  http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002RBE290/  - I find the twin-layer helps prevent any rubbing or blistering.  Might be worth trying them or looking at thicker, cushioned socks?

Could you run a marathon without training? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17456672)

Just in case this ends up applying to anybody.

Didn't Swordpoker do it a while ago?

with pretty much no training, he did run a 10k at some point before though but think that was more to test if he could do it than to train

New plan for Berlin

Smashed all the way there, night out, curry, Guinness breakfast and off I go ;-)

On a more serious note anyone had any trouble with their Iliotibial band?

Yes, when I first started running in big, heavily cushioned shoes - and it bloody hurt.  That's why I now run in lightweight shoes and with a forefoot landing as opposed to heel-striking.  Not had a problem with it since.

Ah so shoe related again.

New shoes on Saturday for sure

Well shoe-related and also running-style related.  Don't think new shoes will help if you're running in the same way that causes the ITB issue.

I'm thinking of running the milton keynes marathon on april 29th, anyone fancy it?

not going to be particularly quick, I just want to try out running one pre berlin

Too soon for me (still only done one run this month because of my injured ankle), but would be up for doing one in August if you fancied another?

Also LOL at your 'not particularly quick' - that'll be bloody quick for the rest of us.

let me know what you're looking at for august, may be interested

I'm just going to jog MK if I do it, really just want to get a feel for the distance in race conditions, not gonna be anywhere near peak condition in 5 weeks time

Jog = sub 3:30 I'd bet.

http://beyondmarathon.com/wordpress/dusktildawn/

(taken from Boshi's personal running thread)

This is the 2013 target event, yes?

I'm liking the look of that!

I've booked into the Derag Livinghotel Königin Luise Thursday till Tuesday because: -

Its a parkland setting
8km from town so a nice warm up and down
It has a nearby 24 hr tram into town
Sauna and massage will be useful
It has good reviews
Its only £388 for 5 nights (free cancellation as well if I change my marbles)
It has free beer (sigh)

Cant really book flights yet as I don't know whether I'll be in the UK or Poland at the time.

FYP.

Were in one of the other Derag hotels, Henriette, because the main restaurant is a curry house ;-)
Curry for breakfast will set me up well for the day!

Does it have free beer hopkino?

Minibar is apparently gratis

#fckingetinthere

gatso and i will be getting free beer in our apartment after we've car-booted off the contents of the bookcase and the electrical items.

Squatters rights FTW

I can't believe Dan has let himself go so quickly. Think you need to up the miles fella:

 (http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc43/kinboshi/IMG_20120407_191624.jpg)

yeah he deffo needs a haircut

bit unfair, that's an old photo

Didn't appreciate how much of a spanner in the work a chest infection could be.  The first few times I tried running after making this last post it was a real struggle with the breathing (never been a problem for me before then) - chest just started hurting after less than a mile and had a lot of very short runs.  Took about two weeks after the antibiotics for that to really go away.  By the time that was fixed it was like my legs had forgotten how to go any further, so whilst the chest was fine, the calves and ankles just weren't having it.  Last week, after what seemed like an eternity, I finally managed to get back where I had been before I got ill, running 3 miles reasonably comfortably.

The half marathon is now only 7 weeks away and obviously I'd planned/hoped to be a lot further along than I am now.  The semi-plan now is to try to add a mile a week to my longest runs, and hopefully get to a point where I can attempt the race without feeling totally overwhelmed at the prospect.  My race number and timing chip arrived in the post this week, along with a chart showing how hilly the course is.  I'm trying not to look at that particular piece of information :D

Going to attempt my first 4 miler today - just working on planning a totally fresh route rather than extending my well-worn 3 mile circuit.

I've just started training for my 150 mile bike ride which will be on the 17th of June and I've developed a chest infection too.

If you rub some eucalyptus oil on mine, Ill rub some on yours.

that's a very kind offer Tom, but my chest is all better now :)

I'm just contemplating taking some ibuprofen half an hour before i run in the hopes that it might help when the aches start to kick in.  Good idea/bad idea/pointless?

Actually I'm probably getting the worst of that bargain. My chest is very flat, straightforward and easy to do. No fiddly bits or anything.

Don't take anything. Pain is there for a reason.

...whereas mine more closely resembles the topography of sheffield...

yeah i know, i'm gonna tough it out.

I spent some very happy times in Sheffield.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/01/phys-ed-does-ibuprofen-help-or-hurt-during-exercise/

study summed up in the last para

Claw are u a member of a gym?

I've found I've built up my distance on treadmill and u can pace urself.

wow - that was actually awesome!  Adding that extra mile has made a huge impact mentally I think.

I started off deliberately as slowly as I could, and, as is the norm, the ankles started to ache at around the 2.5 mile mark.  Usually i've only got another half a mile to go at this point so just push on.  Knowing I had an extra 1.5 miles today I changed my stride slightly, tried to loosen things up a bit and, just after 3 miles, totally ache free!  The last mile was the easiest of the four and, although I didn't time it along the way, was almost certainly the fastest too.  Coulda happily carried on going.  I'm starting to feel like there might be a distance runner in me yet.

4 miles? Piece of cake......mmmmmm....cake.

no.  gyms/treadmills bore me to tears

that's normal, it's why people warm up. the first part gets the aches out of the legs

if I'm doing a 5k race I'll do 2.5 to 3k first as a warmup. if I don't then I'm starting on heavy legs and will probably underperform

My stomach works like that too. If I'm going to have a big fried brekky, I usually warm up with pancakes and cereals

Claw do u have an iPhone? Should get the runkeeper app as it tracks routes and times of miles etc really good tool ;)

cheers will look into that.

I've been using mapometer.com to plan routes, and my very technical timing system involves looking at the time when i leave and looking at the time when i get back. 

Geek.

today's run was approximately 38 minutes.  dunno if that's ok or if i'll get told off :D

Can't imagine you won't get told off. We're all on holiday to celebrate Jebus coming back from the dead; boshi is gonna be mega tetchy today.

been mentally fannying about a bit over what to do next.  plan was, as I said earlier, to add a mile a week to my longest run.  I've already done that this week and was going to do a couple more 3-4 mile runs before building to 5 next week and so on.  that would see me hitting 10 miles the week before the race.

Having found the jump to 4 miles much easier than I anticipated, I'm really tempted to try a 5 miler for my next run now - by getting longer distances covered sooner, I'll hopefully be at the 10 mile stage a week or two before the race, and can do some shorter runs leading up to the day.

I know neither strategy is ideal but I'm not sure which is preferable. help!

8 weekends til the race including this one, no need to rush anything. keep your long run to the weekend (or monday if you want to stay the same as this week)

wk 1- 4 miles
wk 2- 5 miles
wk 3- 6 miles
wk 4- 7 miles
wk 5- 8 miles
wk 6- 10 miles
wk 7- 6ish
wk 8 race

and keep your other runs during the week shorter than the long one obv with very little mileage in the week before the race, just a few leg stretches of a few slow miles

oh did i miscount?  extra week is a bonus.

as long as I haven't miscounted

If you run 3 miles a week for 7 weeks, you will end up 147 miles away.

No need to thank me.

is this another one of those threads where we help you with maths?

Lol. Either that, or fix my typing.

Bam, are you 100% entered? I was just checking the participant list to make sure we're all on there and you're not. assume it's because you're doing the charity route but may be worth checking that they've def entered you

so - plan this week after tackling 4 miles for the first time on Monday was to do 3/4 miles Wednesday, same again Friday, then go for my first attempt at 5 miles today.

Wednesday I ended up not getting home from work til 9.30 after a 12+ hour day, knackered.  Fail.

Friday went out the window too having been up ill most of the previous night and Hannah unexpectedly (but in a 'nice surprise' way) coming home from a few days away with her dad early enough to spend the night here. 

Undeterred, but not overly optimistic, I still set out to do the five miler this evening.  It was tougher than the last run (probably due to lack of movement over last few days), and when the aches kicked it they didn't go away.  Pushed through though, and got it done in approx 50 minutes according to my technical timing system.  Can't afford anymore spanners though.

Little bit excited.

On a whim today I decided to look to see if there were any localish 10k races this weekend as I was looking at running 6 miles this weekend in any case for my 1/2 training.

found this one in Windsor:

http://www.thefixevents.com/content/the-all-nations-5k-and-10k-run-2012/

nice flat course, so looked like a good bet, and I've been and gone and registered for my first ever race!

Me and the Ho are tackling the Leeds 10k in July

OMG!


(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qIKeBUYbz6w/T24g0jyKeHI/AAAAAAAABuc/vZqKS1yK_po/s1600/omg.jpg)

Hooray I did it!

that's two things ticked off today - my first proper race and my first time over the 10k distance.  Never would have believed a few months ago that I had it in me :)

It was the first time I'd run without music.  I also forgot to bring a watch.  No big deal really as I didn't have any time targets, just wanted to get round, and was expecting it to take around an hour.  There weren't any distance markers anyway, so not sure how much use a watch would have been to me. So I just did what I always do, ran at a pace that felt comfortable to me and it felt like I was running around my normal speed.  I spent nearly the whole race way up in the rear part of the pack, and I don't think there were more than a handful of people behind me when I finished, so I thought my pace must've been a bit slower than I'd anticipated.  

Gary had brought  Hannah along to watch and they met me at the finish line with the obligatory 'well dones'.  There was a bit of confusion over how long it had taken me.  Me: "that was really slow wasn't it? About 70 minutes?" Gary "No! It was about 51!" Me (ecstatic) "wtf!? wow - that must've been a fast field".  I then went to get my official time.  1.01.28.  Gary had forgotten the race had started at 9.20 and not 9.30 ;D  I'm dead chuffed with that anyway.  The half marathon seems like a massive step up now in just a few weeks though.

WP Claw!!!

Well done Claire!

Will do great things for your racing confidence

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqOBR_Xbw2I

haha remi gallard what a genius

Nice one Clurr.

Like you said, time was irrelevant, and it was about getting round and finishing the distance.

Next target is the half, which is only two 10ks, and you know you can do 10K again so not a problem!

good job you didn't do 51 minutes, you woulda been in loads of trouble with kin

Well done Claw

:D

yesterday was such a doddle I even managed to have a nap around the 9k mark.  that's what cost me the 51 minutes imo :)

http://www.iesphotography.co.uk/Pixaria/gallery/5_10km_All_Nations_2012_Dorney_Lake/image/850/

You shouldn't have been sleeping, that's why they were able to nick your scooter...

Off out for a run myself now in the mud.

have fun.  i'm spending tonight drinking and eating chocolate.

official results now up - were more people behind me than I thought! (I'm ignoring the fact that most of them were old :D)

http://www.thefixevents.com/content/the-all-nations-10k-run-results-2012/

Please accept my innuendo-free congratulations.

that's no fun :(

Nice one, seriously impressed.

Don't blame me. My end o was ready to be innu until Tony buggered it up.

good work :D

pretty sure tikay doesn't read this thread so we can be as rude as we like here. 

tits.

Oooh! Mrs, no...

You're going to get me into sooo much trouble.

He reads everything. (Except Vinny's diary obv)

Anyone watch the London Marathon coverage today? Love watching it, the atmosphere, the stories, next best thing to being there.

Nell McAndrew is simply amazing.

Is it true a 30 year old woman who was running in it has died?

don't like her, she was the only woman to beat me into the olympic stadium

I was on the 20 mile water station today, well I was mostly eating/drinking free tea and cake in the church hall tbh, but the elites are awesome to watch

yeah she was amazing (i can't think of a better word so copying you).  was going to post something about her just after her interview but must've got distracted.  fantastic effort!

A mate's husband who is in his 40's had a fantastic run today, coming in at 2hrs 41min and got interviewed by Colin Jackson.

haven't seen anything about that Dawn - terrible if so. must have had some kind of underlying condition I would have thought? :(

Hadn't heard about it, but it's possible. Sad news for their family and friends :(

haha - I checked her wikipedia page afterwards and insta-clocked that she'd beaten you in that :D

Saw it posted on FB but not heard from any official source.  Very sad if true. 

Are there any sort of medical checks to go through before running in something like that or is it good luck to ya once you sign up?

her wikipedia page mentions beating me?

the story about the woman dying seems to be true :(  strangely only seems to have been reported on US websites though.

yeah it quotes her as saying "I totally stuck it in gatso's eye - what a loser being beaten by a girl"

think france is the only country where you have to get a doctor's note to run

it's on the telegraph's site

they can't medically check nearly 40k people.  when we signed up for berlin (and i imagine it's the same with all of them) you have to do a kind of online health questionnaire before registering, and if you're in a high risk group it'll recommend that you seek medical advice before taking part.  other than that it's up to the individual. 

People die every day crossing the road, you don't need a certificate to do that.

She could beat me on a daily basis.

Yeah, but Jebus will look after those ones.  Says so in the Bible innit

From the telegraph article:

"The death was the tenth since the London Marathon began in 1981.

Five of the previous fatalities were a result of heart disease in runners apparently unaware that they had a problem. Four of these were cases of severe coronary heart disease."

it's those things that people 'didn't know they had' that are usually the problem - unless you have a total check up to rule everything out I guess there's no way of knowing if you've not had any symptoms.  If something's bad enough to kill you whilst running though i'm surprised none of them had any issues during training.

Patrice Muamba, the Bolton footballer who had a heart attack on the pitch and his heart stopped beating for 78 minutes, has thanked god for saving him. Yep, not one mention of the brilliant scientists and doctors whose intervention kept him alive. Nope, it was the god who gave him the heart attack to start with who saved him. God obviously didn't care about this woman who died today. Maybe she didn't pray enough?

Dismount boshi, ffs, dismount!!!

You didn't hear me earlier. I'm calm now.

Rumour has it twitter was busy earlier   rotflmfao

Again, I was relatively calm on there too!

reminds me actually.  I passed a woman pretty early on yesterday (around 3k).  She was in her 40s, looked the part (had all the cool running gear etc) yet her breathing sounded absolutely terrible like she was having an asthma attack or something.  another woman asked her if she was ok and she said 'yeah i'm fine etc'.  I've no idea how she got on or if she even finished it, but surely if you're body is reacting that badly then listening to it and stopping is ftw?

nah, not necessarily. some people have breathing that sounds abs terrible when running but aren't in any sort of trouble

justgiving page of the girl who died is now at £323k and rising rapidly

http://www.justgiving.com/Claire-Squires2

The Samaritans are working with her family to decide what projects the money will go towards.

http://www.samaritans.org/media_centre/news_stories/marathon_runner_claire_squires.aspx

I've just regged for this - looks awesome!  Anyone else fancy it?

http://www.thebritish10klondon.co.uk/

just realised it's the weekend after the stone roses.  might have to cut down on planned pints of overpriced cider intake.

london marathon 2013 ballot opened this evening. get in quick, it'll be closed sometime this afternoon/evening

Dan, great time for the Milton Keynes Apocalypse Marathon at the weekend.  3:34 in those conditions is bloody impressive.

Was it cool enough for you?

not sure cool is the right word

freezing cold with gale force winds and torrential rain on a flooded course would be about right. the winner did it in 2:41 and he's a 2:18 runner

Yeah, sounded pretty extreme.  At least you know you'll destroy your marathon PB next time!  3:34 in that means you'll definitely be close to 3:00 in Berlin (I have every confidence in you).

Hey running kids.

What's a decent time for 10k?

Last week I ran 10k by accident on a treadmill and did it in 52 and a half minutes and was wondering what is par for that.

There isn't really a 'par'.  If you're Gatso, then that's a slow time; but if you're normal then that's a pretty decent time for a non-club runner.

When you say by accident, had you done into the room to buy a sandwich and ended up on the treadmill running 10K by mistake?  That'd make it even more impressive.

I always start by having a run and usually stop when I get a stitch after 25 minutes or so. On Thurday though I got no stitch and had lots of energy and just kept running without really thinking about it.

It was only once the album I was listening to had finished and I looked at the counter and it said I'd done 8.2k I decided to go for the 10k.

assuming no incline on the treadmill that's probably equivalent to just over 53 minutes run outdoors which would probably put you in the top half of a mass participation 10k but pretty near the back of any club run

if you just had it set on one speed then you can assume that you'd go a fair bit faster in a race though as you're not just plodding along at whatever speed you happened to set the belt at

Send your entry into the London Marathon, join the rest of us doing silly running things.

There was a 1 incline and, yeah, in a race I would have speeded up at the end as I was not tired.

Thin.

I went to a few seminars this weekend.

There was one on nutrition which I made a couple of notes on.

The response might be either - already know, don't agree with or didn't know - but thought I might as well put them down here on the off chance they might help, or at least generate discussion about good nutrition.

1. Training.
20g of protein + 1g of carbohydrate per kg of weight straight after training will maximise the benefit from your recovery

2. Carb Loading.
You can build up extra carb stores for 3 days - and keep them for 3 days.
So if you're racing on Saturday then carb load on Mon,Tue, Wed then eat at a 'comfortable' level for Thu Fri so you don't feel uncomfortable when racing.

3. Pre Race.
2g of carb per kg of weight 3 hours before the start.
750ml sports drink (carb+electrolytes e.g. Gatorade) spread out over those 3 hours

4. Race
Assuming you can draw on carbohydrate reserves for the first hour
Just over 1g of carbs per minute (will mean your body will process just under 1gpm) is a rough guideline - and spread out the intake as much as possible over that extra time.
Glucose + Fructose mixtures will mean your body will process more of the carbohydrate than Glucose alone (but adding sucrose doesn't make that much of a difference)

That was almost literally the notes I took so with any luck that makes some sort of sense. There was a lot more he was talking about but I kept on getting ..... distracted..... by Cassie Patten (http://openwaterpedia.com/index.php?title=Cassandra_Patten) looking surprisingly hot  ;ashamed;

Any other ideas about nutrition that can be put in handy bullet point form? (because any more detailed and it gets too boring to remember)
Including any disagreement with these points above?

Sigh. Ballot entry sent. Seriously starting to wonder wtf is wrong with me.

Quick update from me....

Struggling with me knee still.

Newtons bought

Treadmill running = fine but not really on track for the 1/2
Outdoor running = shite as my knee hurts after about 30 mins

13 days till the half marathon. Gonna give it a go but think there is a fair chance my time is going to be terrible.

Then have 5.5 months to sort me knee and get some decent training in.

Sighballs

Newtons help at all, make it worse, neither?

Haha, welcome to the world of being a runner. Entering races you don't want to do and have no logical explanation as to why you sent in your entry form.

I just know that if I didn't, next April would roll around and I'd be watching it on the telly really wishing I'd tried to get in.

no idea about 1, I have no concept of what a gram of protein is

the others seem to be pretty much what is accepted but with adjustments for the individual. most people would have carb loading a day later than you have it there so tues, weds, thurs eat normally on friday and race saturday

so my first marathon has now been confirmed as being long so I'm now officially an ultra-marathoner. everyone seemed to measure mile 7 as being 1.25 miles long but we were waiting for official confirmation which we now have. flooding was so bad at that point that they had to throw in a detour but as it was agreed pre race with the race referee the results will stand as marathon distance

Sounds like more of a biathlon than a marathon!

think the protein one is wrong. Huge amount for a runner

jon is a swimmer as is the bird he was perving at so maybe it was tailored to that

The nutritionist doing the seminar was an ex elite triathlete - I think it was a general thing rather than any particular sport.

(http://images.vitaminimages.com/hb/vf/productimages/HB/H200W000/HB085598_R_H200W000.gif)

That's got nearly 17g of protein in and that's not that big so is 20g really that huge for recovery after training?

I thought the carb side might be the bit I couldn't read properly in my notes

I don't understand why the protein would be a fixed number and not in g/kg body weight

hmmmmm might have been, can't remember for sure, but I think it was similar to why the amount of carb to take in during a race is 'about' the same for everyone - however big you are, stomach sizes aren't that different - and the amount your body can metabolize doesn't change that much however big the rest of you is.

lols sorry guys misread on my part.
Read it as 20g protein per kg of weight

Lol, despite having no idea of protein I could guess that taking in well over a kilo of out probably wasn't right

lol

I don't know anything, so I didn't know whether you were intuitively right or not

I'm pretty sure other people could have gained more from that seminar than me, I'm only really good at paying attention when I'm properly interested in the subject. And nutrition is boring.

were the notes you took just a good excuse to cover for all the 'jon 4 cassie' doodles?

The notes are a bit tricky to read through all of these
(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs41/f/2009/004/9/1/Heart_Doodles_by_ibeliever.png)

ran 9 miles today.  My knees feel like they might never work again.  

Am getting some new shoes - didn't have my size in stock in the shop so have ordered them off the internet - looking forward to trying them out but a bit worried about doing too much in them too soon and maybe risking blisters etc.

Hannah's getting quite interested in running too now and wants to come out with me on some shorter runs once the half is done and dusted.  She has also challenged gatso to a 100m race which she is confident she will 'easily win'.  Today she took part in an under 10s 1 mile fun run, which she completed probably quicker than I could :D  Dead proud of her, as she rightly is of herself.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/466182_10150931602378833_636478832_12103556_2137575187_o.jpg)

Just make sure they do fit when they arrive, and then run them in with short runs until you're sure they're ok.

I did the 10K run yesterday on the same course as the Thunder Run. Was very muddy, which made it tough, but not as much as a problem as my ankle. Went over on it a few months ago (playing hockey) and sprained it badly. Had only got back into running a few weeks back, and then last week managed to go over on it again after a a bit of wood broke off a small wooden bridge I was crossing. Didn't think it was that bad, but got a fair bit of bruising round the ankle (not as bad as when I did it originally thankfully), and it hurt all the way round yesterday.

So now I'm in a bit of a quandary. I need to build my mileage up for the tr24 at the end of July, but I probably also need to rest the ankle so I don't damage it further. Dammed if I do, damned if I don't.

First sports injury I've had for about ten years, and it's bloody annoying.

I know they will fit :D

I had all the gait analysis and shoe trying on stuff in the shop, and we sussed out the size i needed but they didn't have it in stock.  the sales assistant (probably a bit naughtily) suggested i try sports direct down the road - they'd probs be cheaper too.  They did have the right size and I tried them on, but they weren't any cheaper and I was buggered if I was going to give them full price.  Came home and found them on sale online much cheaper :)

What's the tr24?

http://tr24.co.uk

The 24 hour thing I did last year. I've entered a team this year of decent runners (and me), but unfortunately one of them has dropped out due to a knee problem.

The good news is that I've only gone and found a more than able replacement. In fact some of you may have heard of him. The one and only... GATSO!!

that looks fking mental! (but fun!)

Did you not read my lengthy report from last year's?

[ ] entertaining read

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=39684.msg1410017#msg1410017

no - that must've been before i had the slightest interest in anything running related.  i would like to despite the health warning - linky?

too quick!

i thought it was a good read!  fingers crossed you get a slightly cooler day this year :D

you know you're becoming a proper runner when you start referring to trainers as shoes

Either a proper runner ....... or a chav

Is that your back garden, Claire?

I can see why you thought that, although it's actually more similar to my front garden than my back.  It's actually Priory Park in Reigate.

My bad.

Hannah looks gorgeous.

Definitely still a higher %age chav than proper runner.  Felt great from about 3-7 miles yesterday but then really struggled over the rest of the distance, and was probably the first time I finished a run feeling like I had absolutely nothing left in the tank.  Last week I felt like 13 miles was going to be easily achievable.  Now I've run a bit more of it it feels a bit further from my reach.

thank you.  because she is imo :D

boo - still no sign of my new shoes - was hoping to go out in them tonight :(

Reminded me actually. When I had the gait analysis done last weekend the woman in the shop noticed that I was overpronating just with my right foot.  I'd never noticed before, but it was pretty obvious that my left foot is striking nice and straight and my right one just looks like it has a mind of it's own.  Anyway, since then I've been massively aware of it, even when I'm just walking normally, and have actually got a bit self-conscious about it - it's like I've had this disfigurement and I must've been the only person in the world oblivious to it.  Took a look at the wear pattern on my work shoes yesterday and round by the big toe on my right foot is massively worn in comparison to the left.

Has made me think that this is probably the most likely cause of the unexplained pain in my right leg/hip over the past few years that i've been sent off for x-rays, physio etc for and no one has been able to find a reason.  Just watching me walk might have been a good start!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqhlQfXUk7w

So Leeds Half this morning..... had a few set backs....

1 my knee still isn't right this combined with the weather means my training has been minimal
2 I accidentally had 9 pints on Friday night
3 it appears that where I thought it said flat next to Leeds Half Marathon it actually said hilly as fuck!

Chip time was 2.28.19

I can't actually get up the stairs now at home. Need to get something sorted with my knee or Berlin could be looking shady.
I had to walk the last 2k, not physically tired or out of breath but my knee was so painful I just couldn't keep doing it. Obv ran the last 500m though. Have an amazing pic to post later.

Personal highlight of the day was being overtaken by an elderly man pushing a handicapped lady in a wheelchair. Hero.

All of that to contend with and you still did it! well done StuartHopkin!

I hope that's the photo!

Well done Stu

Being fit enough to do a half 5 months before Berlin is a really good base

Go backwards up the stairs, it's much easier that easy

Good work mate. Get the excuse in early doors.

Confirmed. Got that tip from a guy at the gym when I used to train legs to the point of puking.

A rare Gatso error. Would be rude to let it slip.

You should Look at glucosamine sulphate, obv not if your a diabetic or have similar issues. I had knee flare ups for years, a bit of keyhole didn't rectify a thing. Then some wise man told me about the above and now it's nice and kneesy, it turns out quite a few of the running fraternity are on this. No more than 1500mg a day for me.

Dan!!

Dan!!

DAN!!!!!

Can somebody please get hold of Dan!!!!!

Someone's using something which isn't scientifically proven!!!! Come and tell him he's wasting his money!!

(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f220/martynprime/facebook_like_button_big1.jpg)

surely someone is working on an auto correct that actually reads what you've written instead of assuming you meant something nonsensical

So that's my longest run in the build up to Sheffield done and dusted.  Can't pretend I'm not pleased that I've got a relatively easy two weeks ahead now.

Over the past few weeks I've come to realise:

[X] I actually like running
[ ] I like running for more than about an hour

Once Berlin is over and done with and I can tick 'run a marathon' off of the life goals list, I'm gonna be sticking with 10ks I reckon.

:D

Take some MSM with it too ;)

No idea what the joke is, I will keep my advice to myself and keep wasting my monies! Happy runnings to all.

Matt just taking the piss out of me, because I always question the use of supplements that have no scientific research to back up their efficacy.

Absolutely this. Keep the tips coming please. People can easily choose whether to try it or not.

I agree with you Craig that Stu should give glucosamine/chondrotin a spin.

I've actually got some that I'm not intending to use that I was going to let him have to see if it helps.

Do you use anything else? I've heard that cod liver oil is supposed to be a good one.

The joke is that Dan is a massive tool and loves to pick fault with people!

Please don't stop giving out advice.

I am happy to give anything a go and if Matt has some already then I am going to get on it!

When you say you had knee flare ups which bit was it? For me it is the the outside of the knee.

I'm generally pretty sceptical about supplements but there is so much anecdotal evidence about the efficacy of glucosamine sulphate wrt joint problems that I'd be really surprised if it doesn't actually do what people claim. pretty sure I read somewhere that even though the fda haven't cleared it as a drug they have said that it probably works

and even if it does nothing it's a natural product so you're not going to do any harm taking it as long as you don't pop 10 pills a day

you can get a year's supply from zipvit for not much over a tenner, doubt you'll get a month's worth from a shop for that much

I stopped running seriously for years after having my leg broken, which basically fked my ankle joint. The joint just always gave up.
Took Glucosamine but still got the pain.
About three years ago tried a combination of glucosamine and omega 3 fish oil supps and have been pain free since

No scientific proof to it just own experience of what works for me

When I was about 30 I jumped off a shed and broke my heel. I was in plaster for about three months and when it was removed I was left with a limp.

The limp slowly disappeared over the course of about a year, but my gammy leg would still give out under pressure. If I walked or ran any distance, it would simply hurt more and more until I simply had to stop.

It stayed that way for perhaps 10 years. I just accepted it as a fact of life. Then, almost without me realising, it just got better. It's fine now.

I don't know what, if anything, this proves.

it proves that the heel is terribad at shock absorption which is quite relevant in a running discussion as about 90% of people heel strike when they run and this bad technique makes them about a million percent more likely to pick up injuries

had you landed properly on your toes you probably would've been fine

It also shows that a lot of the time when people think a treatment is helping them feel better or recover it's actually them getting better anyway (apart from, or despite the intervention of a particular treatment).  The lack of a control to the study (with a sample size of 1) makes determining causation or correlation impossible.

Like when someone gets a headache, and reach for a couple of paracetamol and a glass of water.  Their headache goes in 30 minutes.  Was it the tablets, the water, the placebo effect, or just a matter of time and the headache would have subsided after half an hour if they'd done nothing anyway?  What about next time they get a headache - that's maybe caused by something different? Anecdotal evidence is unreliable at best, which is why we rely on properly run clinical trials and scientific studies.

See what we mean Craig? Absolute nob! ;-)

I am, but trusting science over unproven (and disproven) treatments isn't why!

This was exactly the conclusion I was hoping someone would arrive at.

It's like the brown cow story,


There's a mathematician, a physicist and an engineer on a train going through Scotland. The engineer looks out the window and says "Oh! Look! A brown cow. All cows in Scotland must be brown.". The physicist says "No, no. All we can say is that some of the cows in Scotland are brown.". The mathematician then says "NO, NO! All we can say is that there is at least one cow in Scotland, at least one side of which must be brown."

Such a nob. You could say this about absolutely anything.

Like when someone has a heart attack and needs a defibrillator to bring them round. How do we know they wouldn't have just got up and walked off if we'd just left them to it.

Or like when someone's severed an artery so someone kindly clamps it for them. How do we know it wouldn't have just healed itself if we'd left it alone?

Cliffs:

Nob.

 :) I like that story but I'd usually put economist rather than engineer

You couldn't say it about fanny.

LOL - you could say it about anything, if you were a nob.

a) if nobody ever tried anything that wasn't already scientifically proven, we'd never invent anything new to put into clinical trials. There are plenty of successful drugs that were put through clinical trials after someone had noticed some effects anecdotally.
b) lots of things that even medical professionals do aren't trialed in a double blind test. If you've got the flu, when a doctor tells you to go home and get some rest, he isn't doing it because he's recently read a clinical trial sending 10 flu patients to bed and another 10 flu patients out clubbing and found out which ones recover the fastest, he's using a combination of common sense, knowledge of the effects of flu and and knowledge of how the body works. In this case, if there is a suggestion that taking these tablets will help your knees, and some reasonable mechinism for how it might actually work, why not give it a go?
c) even if it is the placebo effect, if it makes you better who cares?

Then they're tested thoroughly - and if they work, they become 'medicine'; if they don't they become 'alternative medicine'.


If someone qualified to advise me gives advice, I'm more inclined to believe them.  If my tap's leaking - I'll listen to what the plumber has to say.  If a child is suffering from asthma, I won't send them to a chiropractor or a homoeopath.


http://whatstheharm.net/

Since when has a chiropractor claimed to be able to cure asthma?

Would you send a child who was suffering with back pain to a chiropractor?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=chiropractor+asthma

They claim to fix lots of things, of course the whole idea of chiropractic is based on out-dated and disproven theories.  http://www.skepdic.com/chiro.html

No, I wouldn't send a child or an adult to a chiropractor, for anything.  They do more harm than good.

Where's the harm in chiropractic?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/may/14/dangers-chiropractic-treatment-under-reported

Lol Dan.

These people aren't chiropractors. They're con artists hiding behind the mask of being chiropractors. There's a big difference.

They exist in all walks of life and you can find plenty of 'evidence' on the interwebs. For example the plumber who was going to help with your tap may offer incorrect advice which would cost you fortunes. Probably wouldn't kill you of course.

Another extreme example would be Dr. Shipman who was a murderer hiding behind the mask of being a doctor.

Should we all stop seeing doctors because of big H?

No Matt, have a look at what chiropractic is based on.

Boshi's never wrong...and he cheats at MSN tag too.  He comes out with all sorts of rubbish claims and 'proof' to say he's won.  You haven't a hope when it comes to other topics.

Wasn't really arguing with him because it's pointless as you well know.

I was just trying to illustrate to Craig why Hopkin and myself said what we had. I think Dan's helped show him where we were coming from.

Seriously Dan do you really think that skepdic article is helpful in any way whatsoever? I thought you were intelligent.

To quote the article: "Chiropractors think that by adjusting the misalignments they can thereby restore the nerve signals and cure health problems. This idea was first propounded in 1895"

Well yes maybe back in 1895 they thought that was the case. I believe back then that doctors thought they cure pretty much anything by sticking a slug on your bellend as well. Things have changed a bit since then.

Every chiropractor that I've been to has only claimed to be able to stop my joints aching when they've ached. To this end they've achieved their claims. Not one of them claimed to be able to cure anything else.

Yes there will be chiropractors making bogus claims and there will also be bad chiropractors. The ones that I know of are bloody good at making your joint pains go away and that'll do for me.

this isn't about bad chiropracters or fraudulent ones - it's primarily about chiropracty being performed in the way that it's meant to be done

I'd say it's similar to the other supplements

I think all these things - might help - and they might do something

But without sufficient scientific evidence to support it - you don't know whether it's helping - and you don't know exactly what it's doing

This is why your my hero.
I'm off to find a slug.

So the chiropractors who claim to cure asthma, colic, etc., don't exist or aren't real chiropractors?

Chiropractic is founded on the theory of sublaxations. They have been shown not to exist.  So what science is chiropractic based on?  Modern medicine is based on empirical study, things like germ theory show how many diseases are caused, discoveries in genetics, knowledge of cells, etc.  A lot of older practices have been shown to be wrong or less than ideal, and these are replaced with better (more effective) medicine.  That's how medicine improves, and treatments for things like cancer are improving.


These aren't bad or 'fraudulent' (any more fraudulent than the rest that is) chiropractors.  That is about chiropractic in general, it's a flawed theory that does actual damage.


...and they can also do harm.

Don't do it!  They're slimy little buggers.

Bell ends or slugs?

;carlocitrone;

Sigh.  Knew I'd walk into it.   rotflmfao

would've been so awesome if kin had been born years ago and insisted on curing everything with slugs while laughing at people trying out new fangled, unproved penicillin

Gatso winning the internet.

Wow Dan you really are blinkered when it comes to this aren't you.

This: "These aren't bad or 'fraudulent' (any more fraudulent than the rest that is) chiropractors." is probably the most cocktarded thing you've ever said.

Of course they are!!

You're telling me that the guy I go to who has consistently helped me out with skeletal problems is the same as the chiropractors who claim to be able to cure liver disease?

Amazing.

(http://gifs.gifbin.com/1233495358_appl3456.gif)

The bad/fraudulent types was originally a comment on the study about how many injuries chiropracty causes

The only part of chiropracty that actually works is basically physiotherapy - and it's not necessarily even as good a version of physiotherapy as you'd get from a properly qualified physiotherapist. Once you take that away - it doesn't really leave much.

It leaves repeat visits to the chiropractor to treat the ailment they're not fixing...

Think you'll find that the logic there is backwards. Penicillin was developed as a treatment through empirical research, not clinging on to something that has been shown not to work. If medicine didn't follow the scientific approach (which involves replacing existing treatments with better ones over time),we'd still be blood-letting and using witchcraft to treat people. That or homeopathy or chiropractic treatments.

I don't know mate, maybe you should ask him?

I had to look up glucosamine sulphate coz i'd never heard of it.  wikipedia page says "In most of Europe, glucosamine is approved as a medical drug and is sold in the form of glucosamine sulfate. In this case, evidence of safety and efficacy is required for the medical use of glucosamine and several guidelines have recommended its use as an effective and safe therapy for osteoarthritis."

does that make it ok Kin, or only if it's prescribed for someone diagnosed with osteoarthritis in a country where it's been approved?

I didn't actually say anything against glucosamine sulphate. I think I've read some studies that it's useful in some acute cases, but not sure.

I used to take glucosamine, cod liver oil and multivitamins - dare I say 'religiously'. Then decided to read up on their effectiveness (and not from those selling the stuff). Soon after, I threw the lot in the bin. I used to swear by their effectiveness in helping prevent me getting colds, in keeping my clicking joints from getting worse or being painful. However, since I stopped using them, there's been no change. Except I'm saving a little bit of money.

As for what wikipedia says, I'm not sure it's designated as a medicine in the UK, at least not in the amounts used in supplements. But could be wrong.

The other elements in wiki regarding it's effectiveness are summed up by

Which pretty much goes back to the point that it probably does something to treat something -- but exactly what it does to what is less obvious.

It might fix the problems - it might just fix the symptoms - it might do nothing and have a strong placebo effect - etc

With things like that I'd be inclined to try them out - see what they do

Whereas others might be more inclined to leave them alone - in case of what they might do

Lol. So there was nothing wrong with you when you started taking them? You then continued having nothing wrong with you afterwards so that means they don't work?

Good stuff.

I don't have high blood pressure, or a high cholesterol level. That doesn't mean I shouldn't do anything to prevent those things from happening.

So when you still don't have high blood pressure or cholesterol in a couple of years will you assume that your prevention methods have been ineffective and start eating lard for breakfast?

BoB

That doesn't make sense.

I was taking the supplements under the misguided notion that they were preventing my joints from hurting, helping keep colds at bay, etc. When I stopped using them if my joints had become painful and I'd suddenly become susceptible to colds, then that would have suggested that the supplements were indeed working to prevent those things. But as these things didn't happen I had a choice to take them or not, but be the same health-wise.

I eat a diet that's largely low in fat, particularly saturated fat, eat fruit and veg, etc., and hopefully that will help me avoid getting heart disease that has run in my family. If it doesn't help me and I do get heart disease, I'll look to what modern medicine has to offer in order to treat it (as it did my father).

But your joints weren't hurting before you started the supplements were they and you weren't unusually susceptible to colds?

So you were perfectly alright, you started taking something to stop you not being perfectly alright and continued to be perfectly alright.

How does this show that the supplements don't help when there was nothing wrong in the first place?

What you're talking about with cholesterol is preventing something happening by not consuming which is known to cause it. To liken this to your knee/joint situation you could say that you actively chose not to smash yourself in the knee with a hammer.

If your knees were to start causing you problems then there's a chance that supplements could help so would you take them or just leave it to nature?

I think the point is that - as well as helping with a problem - these supplements are marketed as being able to prevent the problem to start with.

It's basically a different direction boshi has taken because the last one had played itself out

Also, the burden of proof for whether supplements work or not should lie with those peddling them demonstrating they are effective. We've already established that anecdotal evidence is misleading and unhelpful.

My reason for stopping using supplements was reading up on the science behind them and the (lack of) clinical trials that demonstrate their effectiveness.

I do hope that the precautions I'm taking to reduce the risk of heart disease do help though, otherwise the consequences are a little more severe.

My last couple of weeks training for the half has gone right up the spout.  Did my final long run last sunday and plan was to do a 4 and 5 miler in the week, 6 this weekend, then a couple of short runs during next week.  Didn't quite pan out.  Couldn't get out midweek and set out to do 4 miles yesterday to get back on top of it.  Started feeling pretty lightheaded a couple of miles in and walked the rest home.  Then got hit last night with this crappy norovirus thing.  any running tomorrow just isn't going to happen.  not really sure what to do now - obviously don't want to push myself too hard and make sure i'm properly recovered in time for the race, but don't really want to be starting on Sunday having done hardly any running in the two weeks beforehand.  My instinct is to give it two or three days and just do a couple of three milers later in the week if I feel up to it, and hope for the best on race day.  Does that sound like a sensible option, or should I be resting more/training less or vice versa?

best thing you can do is take it easy and recover fully from being sick, no training you do now is going to have any impact on a run in 8 days time. the most important thing is that you got the long run under your belt, as long as you get over the illness you'll be fine

yeah it's best if you can get a couple of little runs in but they're really just to keep the legs ticking over, only need to be 2 or 3 miles and keep them slow

I only did 12 miles in the week before MK marathon

I don't really have the education level to know if this makes sense but it made me laugh. I wasn't laughing at all before I read it so read into that what you will,

have you ever laughed when you have not been reading it?