blonde poker forum

I've decided to try something a bit different with the upcoming Monte Carlo £1k event in DTD. The way I see it, the two main problems with staking threads as they currently run are: 1. people getting flamed on the price and 2. threads selling out and people not being able to buy. I think it's possible to eliminate both these problems, and hopefully not cause any side effect problems, by running each thread like an ebay auction. It should be pretty simple but might take some explaining so bear with me:

I am selling 30% of my gross prize money in the DTD Monte Carlo in December, buyin £1090. I will be playing Day 1B only.
Everyone who is interested in buying a piece make a bid for a certain percentage with the maximum price they would be prepared to pay for that piece. e.g. pleno 5% @ 1.2
All the bids are arranged in descending order by price* and the top 30 percentiles** at 9pm tomorrow (Wednesday) night win the auction.
Every winner pays the price of the lowest winning bid.

*In the event of a tie, the bid made first chronologically will take precedence
**This may involve one person receiving only part of the percentage that they bid for.

This way, I'm not setting a price for people to flame and nobody misses out at a price they would be prepared to pay. Seemingly price-insensitive buyers like tikay can go ahead and bid something like 1.5 and let the more shrewd punters such as trigg et al settle on a price, so hopefully everybody's happy. However, this may scupper pleno's current angle of posting "sasfdsgasddfsadff" on every thread as soon as it sells out so apologies in advance for that.

Other notes:
You can make as many bids as you like, e.g. if you would buy 10% at 1.1 but only 5% at 1.2, you can make 2 bids, 5@1.1 and 5@1.2, if the strike price finishes 1.1 or below you will have 10%, between 1.1 and 1.2 you will get 5% and over 1.2 you won't buy any.
Bids will be ranked by up to 2 decimal places, i.e. 1.333 will be considered the same as 1.33 and ranked chronologically
Bids are binding and cannot be withdrawn, I am ending the auction on Weds to give me plenty of time to chase everyone up for payment before the event. edit re:withdrawals: You don't need to withdraw an old bid to make another one, any losing bids are moot anyway.
To prevent any <0.5 shenanigans, the starting price will be 1.0

Obviously going out into the unknown a little bit here but online auctions have been around a while so hopefully should run pretty smooth. In the event of some unforeseen dispute arising the referee's* decision will be final.

*me

======================================

Current standings:


neeko: 5% @ 1.52
pleno1: 1% @ 1.5
milligan84: 5% @ 1.5
Girgy85: 5% @ 1.5
FUN4FRASER: 20%@ 1.5
SuuPRlim: 19% @ 1.48
neeko: 5% @ 1.47
SuuPRlim: 19% @ 1.42
FUN4FRASER: 25% @ 1.41
T Mar: 10% @ 1.4
Girgy85: 5% @ 1.4
SuuPRlim: 14% @ 1.35
tikay: 30% @ 1.35
redarmi: 10% @ 1.33
Royal Flush: 30% @ 1.31
cambridgealex: 10% @ 1.3
claypole: 10% @1.26
Girgy85: 15% @ 1.25
Simon Galloway: 10% @ 1.25
action man: 30% @ 1.22
paulhouk03: 5% @ 1.21
Girgy85: 15% @ 1.21
action man: 15% @ 1.2
Girgy85: 29% @ 1.11
NigDawg: 29% @ 1.1
Girgy85: 5% @ 1.1
Woodsey: 10% @ 1.0

Current strike price: 1.42, 10% = £154.78

10% @ 1.0

15% @ 1.2

Really like this idea and interested to see how it develops. 

I think this could change staking as its known just now. 

Unfortunately atm with Christmas on the horizon and running like death elsewhere I am not investing but could be interested in this in future.

Good luck with it.

rest @ 0.8 :)

sigh read op :(

[  ] Paul Ho fully reads another OP

5 @1.21

Very good idea, innovative

Good luck

29% @ 1.1

5% @ 1.1

[ ] Girgy fully reads another OP

As your bid came after brammer's only 1% would go even if nobody bid higher. As it is, this bid is a non-event.

29% @ 1.11

lol have none of u any idea whats going on?

At the moment Trigg qualifies for 15% @1.2, Ho 5% @ 1.21 and Brammer 10% @1.1- so Brammer typing 29% was obv impossible and Girgy cant win

u can only win 10% @1.11!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! as 20% has been bid above

15% @ 1.21

Is this stake for Friday?

If the answer is yes and you get knocked out on Friday will you re-enter on Saturday on your own dime?

30% @ 1.22 gtfo girgy

keys sent me the thread and i didn't read any replies apart from woodseys b4 i replied

30% @1.25

hahah sucker

Girgy are you really going to take the whole 30% and give me >400 quid? You could watch the whole auction and keep bidding up the price all the time but the way the thread was intended was that people would just bid for the size of percentage that they actually wanted at the max price they would be willing to pay and then hopefully get it for a little less, that way nobody misses out and everyone's happy.

Ok will free up 15%

Girgy is working with Keys imo ;)

hahahahahahahaha your mouth writing cheque's again griggs?

No i can afford it. wanted u in on the action trigger.

u need someone to big higher or your 30% at 1.25 stands

Nice idea James, think it definitely will be used by others.

ROFL at people bidding 1.25 for you though............ after all, what have you ever won?

free'd up 15% so ur 15% @ 1.22 stands. Right?

Just sayin', might have missed it but I've not seen you buy a piece that big before and it ruins it for everyone if someone is making bids they don't intend to honour. Judging from other recent staking threads I think you maybe now see yourself as something as a trader buying and selling shares on, but that's not how this thread is supposed to go and I don't think it will work here anyway.

Like I said bids are non-withdrawable but just for this once I'll take that as a bid of 15% @ 1.25.

siiiigh

This is excellent, though not so much "tikay pays any price, but shrewder punters are more discerning", marv.

In fact, if I don't like the price, I don't argue or quibble, I just don't buy. At least, that's my excuse......

What I DO like about this is that it gets away from "first come, first served".

I'm actually keen to invest in this, too, but I need to get my head round tactical bidding, etc, so will think how best to do so during the evening. (And hope nobody deliberately disrupts the natural pricing scheme).

What happens if a bidder does not follow through with his/her investment, or fails to pay in a timely manner - does the Auction recommence, is that % alone freed up?

If anyone can advise me on how best to invest on this basis, how to pitch a price which is a balance between investment value, & ensuring I get a piece, I'd love to hear from them. (Dubai, or James himself, for example).

Thanks, & nice one James. I imagine even the shrewder punters will say that, too.....

For avoidance of doubt, I'd happily pay 1.2%+ for Mr K, but how to tactically bid is where I need the mentoring/help.

Put in the highest bid imo, that will probably work  :D

I really don't think anyone can offer you advice on this Tikay as its subjective.

Its like a wiseman once said I sell at the highest price I think people will pay.

So what your willing to pay may be more than say me.  

I think the key to this is set yourself a budget for a certain % and just go for it.  If the bidding was closed then there may be more tactical way of doing things.

Thank you, but clearly, I'm not explaining myself very well here.......

Cheers tikay. FWIW I would prefer it if there weren't any 'tactics' or strategic bids etc involved cos it would probably just mean a ton more admin for me. What I would prefer is that if people would just think what percentage they would like and at what price they would consider it to be no longer value and make that bid. Possibly they could also make a smaller bid to ensure they get more if it ends up "going cheap". Probably tactically the best line is to make these bids at the last second. Also for next time I might see if it works better with closed bidding, however this time I thought it would be better if everything was in the open.

RE: non payers, I can't see how there could be any dispute over who bid what and when so it should be pretty plain who owes money. The auction is only 24hrs long and only 3 days before the tournament so I doubt anyone's circumstances will change that drastically over the course of the auction that they can genuinely no longer afford something that they could genuinely afford when they bid. If they don't pay it I'll offer their piece up to the next highest bidder (at their bid price) and the welcher won't get a piece and their bids won't be accepted in future auctions. I don't see why anyone would intentionally make false bids (except me I guess, but the min 300 posts rule makes this awkward).

Obviously the best, if not the most convenient tactic is to wait until the last minute and then bid just a little more than your nearest rival if that is still within your price range.

The stake is for Saturday. Re-entries make things awkward and more expensive :(

The thing is its not exactly ever gonna be amazingly cheap or amazingly expensive anyway, he has already set the price to be above 1.0- and u can assume it wont go above 1.7 so its always gonna be between 1.0-1.7 which is right anyway

The more interesting auctions are when someone has a big stack going into day 4/5 of WSOP main event. Because the true value of the share is a lot harder to judge

Thanks James, Tom, the penny has now dropped.

Trigg owns thread.

Nice idea Keys. Good luck.

Thanks Mr S.

I've been thinking about the scenario in your second para for some time now, sort of "trading in-running", though such opportunities (in poker staking) are thin on the ground.

Well it makes sense in the main event when ur stacked up going into day 3, have to change flights home etc and still not guaranteed to cash.. well known blonde who dont post anymore posting selling shares on 2+2 in this scenario

I used to go to auctions where 'Rings' operated. If you weren't in, you were out.


Usually, rings show up at auctions where many like items are for sale. The group, comprising a loose knit but well-organized group, agrees ahead of time not to bid competitively against one another. Each member of the group decides to buy certain lots of items and to be the sole bidder on different portions of the inventory.

After the auction, the group meets with a list of what they bought. They then hold another auction among themselves, selling the newly acquired property. The difference between what the ring paid for each item at the first auction and what a member of the group bids for it at the secondary auction is divided proportionally.

Link to this please to have a look?

Like the innovation James, hope it works for u

Nice idea, but I think it would work much better as a closed auction.  It would prevent the last minute tactical gubbins which you seem to want to not encourage (altho obv in terms of maxing the price, it doesn't hurt)

10% @ 1.25 pls

what happens when flushy types "rest"?

nice idea. i'll have a think about the best price for me as well :)

assume you accept all usual pmt methods?

Wp James, supply and demand our kid.  I  see a few guys getting 2.0 (admittedly this is from muggles) and they don't have  10% as much ability as you. Gl

I love this - good work. 10% at 1.26

Ty Shaun, have updated the OP to reflect how things stand as of this post.


Yeah anything normal.


nothing


Yeah just think while it's (relatively) new it'd be better if everyone can see how it all works and that I'm doing everything up front, next one might be closed bids tho.

I think Keith's done really well to come up with this idea and should be given some credit in OP imo.

10% @ 1.3

mvls, i dont know what i have to do to buy a share but will take the lot at 1.31 i think thats right?

superb innovation - going for a single high bid, but given only 30% is up for sale it could be too little.

5% @1.47

1% at 1.5

no idea wtf is going on.

10% @ 1.33

Surely for poker players it really isnt that complicated?

3 people decide they want a piece of James' action.

Player 1 is willing to buy 10% at 1.65.
Player 2 is willing to buy 30% at 1.25.
Player 3 is willing to buy 30% at 1.45.

They all make their bids on here and James closes the auction. James is selling 30%.

Player 1 made the highest bid (1.65) but didn't buy all the action. He gets the first 10%.
Player 3 made the second highest bid (1.45) and he bid for up to 30%. There is 20% left so he gets that at 1.45.
Player 2 made the lowest bid. He gets nothing.

James has sold his 30%, 10% at 1.65 and 20% at 1.45.

This format means that it is up to the buyer to set rates, not the seller. Stops arguments and people coming into thread saying "charging too much". Buyers pay what they are happy to pay and sellers sell out. Win-win, IMO.

nah, bit in bold is wrong. it's all sold @ 1.45

Nice spot, so it is, although if this takes off I can see splitting it being the standard.

Yes - because he sells everything at the "strike price", as I understand it.

10% @ 1.4

So people willing to bid for the full 30% basically have all the power right?

If I bid for 29% at 2.0 and the highest bid for 30% was 1.5, james would sell at 1.5 right?

sigh play properly pls :)

Not exactly, no.

If you bid for 29% at 2.0 and the next bid was 30% at 1.5, you would still get 29%, just at 1.5.

If you bid for 29% at 2.0 and Flushy bid rest at 1.8, you get 29% at 1.8.

Basically Keys takes all the bids and the top bids adding up to 30% gets the shares at the lowest bid of that 30%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_price_auction

this with 30 items up for grabs

when the auction is finished can you delete the non winners from it please. Don't fancy seeing myself in red letters when you bink £80k tyty

James needs to clarify these points imo. this is getting very interesting and could change staking poker players for better or worse.

turning into a who loves James the most game too

put another bid in Trigg, have some balls :)

5% @ 1.5

14% at 1.35

30% @ 1.35

::)

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=42390.0

:)

think dubai, gatso and sharplea are doing a pretty good job of clarifying everything for me tbh

and yeah it is, wiiiiiiiii :D

Have updated the OP to show the list as of this point, last winning bid was lildave at 1.35, [ ] WP tikay

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=47409.15

And far too clever to be a poker player

Yup, [ ] WP me.

Good luck Mr K, & all your investors, hope you get the lot.

5% @ 1.4

Selling the lot at the lowest bid inside the 30% bracket seems silly to me.

Surely it's more fun to have people pay different amounts?

As Cos says someone could just come along and say 20% at 3.0 and let the market settle the real price for them.

Make them pay the full whack and give the shrewd bidders the value imo.

if they were idiots maybe

if someone does this then james just gets a mate to bide 1% @ 3.1 and the bidder has to cough up for 29% at that price almost covering james' buyin

or someone just bids 1% @3.1 for a laugh. it'd probs be worth it tbh

OP updated again, got 1 bid via pm from Fraser Bellamy who doesn't have 300 posts

That's exactly why it would be so much fun.

19% at 1.42

 Human nature being what it is, people are getting more focussed on winning the auction (or inflicting damage to others) than they are about pricing up their idea of fair value, which was the original intent.

If you decide fair value is 1.7 and bid for 30% then someone else bids 1.8, then the value has gone and I'm not sure why you would then bid 1.9 (trying to get extra value ldo)

It's where laissez faire and fixed pricing collide.

Imo a  closed single bid, but for comedy I'd love to see a dutch auction too

I have in my head what I believe represents value for James Keys in this event, taking into account the short term variance of staking and how terrible he is at tournaments.

I'd like to think my ego will allow me to retire from the auction when I can no longer purchase at a price I see correct.

Or I might just spite try and win.

5% @ 1.5

sigh bad times.

this will get you a higher markup than you would probably have charged.

bad times.
 

:(

I don't think James would have done this if he hadn't just seen Flushy bink $800k.

Have updated the OP to reflect current standings. Am going out for a meal later so won't be online at the end of the auction, for the avoidance of doubt I'll use the forum clock to determine the closing time and piece things together tomorrow morning.

@lildave: You bid for 14% at 1.35 but then upped it to 19% at 1.42, don't think these percentages meet the standard criteria for Giffen goods but I'll take it :). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giffen_good (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giffen_good)

@Trigg: nah not gonna delete the losing bids straight away, quite looking forward to doing some post-match analysis on this, for example so far Girgy has made 6 separate bids for a total of 89% of my action. Will he break the 100 barrier?

Would love to see some sicko's run them alongside each other. Would be interesting who would pay what for whom

booked .... i like your style

Think this auction is proving it to be more of a veblen good I think.

0.00001% @ 10.10

• balling

Sorry for hijack Jimbo but I'm not understanding the relevance here George?!

19% at 1.48

Also an auction

5% @ 1.52

 ;popcorn;

Final standings:


neeko: 5% @ 1.52
pleno1: 1% @ 1.5
milligan84: 5% @ 1.5
Girgy85: 5% @ 1.5
FUN4FRASER: 20%@ 1.5
SuuPRlim: 19% @ 1.48
neeko: 5% @ 1.47
SuuPRlim: 19% @ 1.42
FUN4FRASER: 25% @ 1.41
T Mar: 10% @ 1.4
Girgy85: 5% @ 1.4
SuuPRlim: 14% @ 1.35
tikay: 30% @ 1.35
redarmi: 10% @ 1.33
Royal Flush: 30% @ 1.31
cambridgealex: 10% @ 1.3
claypole: 10% @1.26
Girgy85: 15% @ 1.25
Simon Galloway: 10% @ 1.25
action man: 30% @ 1.22
paulhouk03: 5% @ 1.21
Girgy85: 15% @ 1.21
action man: 15% @ 1.2
Girgy85: 29% @ 1.11
NigDawg: 29% @ 1.1
Girgy85: 5% @ 1.1
Woodsey: 10% @ 1.0

Strike price: 1.5, 10% = £163.5

Money owed and % received:

neeko: 5% - £81.75
pleno1: 1% - £16.35
milligan84: 5% - £81.75
Girgy85: 5% - £81.75
FUN4FRASER: 14% - £228.90

Can everyone on this list please pm me about payment? Bank transfer is preferred but I don't mind taking payment on stars, moneybookers, neteller or cash in DTD if it's easier.

Cheers

mb pls

dammit.

gl Keys

5% @ 1.75?

Does Girgy know he has a slice?

he does

Monies sent glglgl

Could be a nice crimbo if Keys and Martin get heads up.

sent

glgl

neeko: 5% - £81.75
pleno1: 1% - £16.35
milligan84: 5% - £81.75
Girgy85: 5% - £81.75
FUN4FRASER: 14% - £228.90

As of 5pm today have received from all but neeko, am sure that's forthcoming tho so tyty everybody and let's do this

Entertaining thread.  GL

if i didn't love keys so much id defo be anti-railing the fuck out of him.

as it happens I hope he gets HU with a 5-1 chip lead before losing to his incredibly talented and exceptionally handsome opponent, and is forced to accept afterwards he does not need a job.

I bank with Santander - I think they still use carrier Pigeons to communicate.

Such a brilliant idea. Good Luck Keeeeeys!

OK didn't do a win but will do a quick TR to give the thread some closure.

Basically had a number of false starts finally busting shoving 17.4k with A7o over an open in the 500/1000 level. Tournament was defined by 3 hands against Tom Kugelstadt where I made at least 2 pretty big mistakes in my opinion:

hand 1: playing 30k at 200/400+50 Jose Pena (really loves the game) limped utg and got overlimped by 3 or 4 people to my button where I raised to 2100 with J8. Only Tom called in mid position and we saw a flop of K97r. Tom checked and I bet 2200 into about 5k with my gutshot (bit too small on reflection, I know I'm always barrelling here but think Tom might be tempted by the direct odds and not think about how he's gonna get to showdown), Tom calls. Turn is an offsuit 6 giving me an up-and-down now, Tom checks I bet 5400 leaving 18.3k behind for a river shove, Tom calls. River is another K pairing the board, Tom checks. I had planned to shove pretty much every river when I bet the turn because although he never ever believes me (we have history) it would be difficult for Tom to call off all his chips with any pair <K (we had pretty much the same stack at the start of the hand). The fact that he never believes means it's easier for him to get to the river with some bad hands that he would now fold in my opinion. When it came to it tho I lost my nerve, I know I'm getting snapped off by any King and I looked at the 18k as 45bbs and thought how much I could do with those chips on such a soft table (the 2 players to my left were abs granite, then there was Jose with 90k chips that are always in play, and I had position on the 3 better players to my right). Also this thread may have entered my thinking slightly but losing other people's money has never bothered me before so I'm not sure how much bearing this had on my play. I'm pretty sure if Jose wasn't there I would have shoved but thought better of it, checked back and lost to Tom's 75s (pair of sevens). He said he was calling but I still think I've missed a pretty big open goal by not shoving there.

hand 2: playing 25k or so at 300/600+75 I open A5s utg, Tom peels the cutoff playing <18k and Marc Foggin peels the bb. The flop comes K24 2 spades and a heart giving me a gutshot and backdoor flush draw. Marc checks, I bet 2025 and Tom calls in position, Marc folds. Turn is an offsuit 5, I thought Tom had about 13k at this point so I bet 3050 to set up a river jam (I wasn't actually planning to go through with it this time, for a number of reasons: because of the hand before, because I have some showdown value and because it's a smaller shove in terms of bbs) which gives me a pretty good price on my bluff. However he quickly shoved all in for what turned out to be 14.5k. Now I kind of get the feeling I'm ahead, if Tom has anything to bluff-catch with why not let me bluff? So I feel like he probably has a flush draw, but if he has a flush draw and wants to get it in why not raise the flop? Why shove a flush draw now when I'm giving such good odds with my 3k into 9k bet? Eventually I decided he probably had something that he wants to protect against the flush draw, which might have been the right read because after I folded flashing the 5 he showed me 64s. It's hard to get more owned than that tbh, he called the flop when he was ahead and then turned his hand into a bluff when it went behind on the turn.

3rd hand vs Tom, no mistake this time: I had doubled up with QQ > AK vs Marc to 40k+ when Tom opened to 1800 in early pos, I called in the cutoff with ATs and Jose made up out of the bb. The flop came T73r and both checked to me so I bet 2375 or so, Jose folded and Tom shoved, I never asked for a count but I think it was about 15k, so enough to put me on a 60k stack if I win the pot. Tom had 88 but spiked the 8 on the river :(. This left me with 20k-ish.

I got moved to a new table shortly afterwards and went through the blinds after they went up to 500/1000 to leave me with the aforementioned 17.4k. A reasonably young-looking guy minraise-opened in utg+2, it was the first time he had vpip in the 8 or so hands I'd been at the table but it was also the first time it had been folded to him, so I figured it was a pretty good spot to shove light, A7o looked plenty good enough but unfortunately he had AQ and held. I got to 40k chips 3 or 4 times early on but couldn't string 2 wins together unfortunately, however hard I tried. Sorry guys :(

excellent tr which i actually understand, and re confirms my theory that you are definatly good value at whatever you decide to ask for.

Couple of questions James's if you don't mind:

1) Isn't the J8 hand just spew? How wide would u be punishing the limpers with or is it all situational?

2) Is tom's call pre against your button raise also spew considering he's oop to James mfkin Keys?

In reverse order: 2) It is spew if I'm firing third barrels, and 1) It's not spew if I play well postflop and fire the 3rd barrel, pretty good situation to get heads up with any of the limpers and not the end of the world if I get 2 or more callers because J8 doesn't flop that badly imo

Thx mate. I've been trying to tighten up a little in these spots. ie: peeling with shit OOP and punishing limpers too light. Spose in this comp when you're this deep it can be a little different to your usual 10-15k starting stack

Yeah, it's not a standout raise but I got there by process of elimination really, limping behind is terrible and with Jose limping 30-50% there (and raising his good hands) I can be pretty sure nobody's range is very strong so I don't like a fold either.

the A5 seems bad from both- no reason for him to believe u are ever bet folding better than 64, and no hand that he beats has much equity so no reason for him ever to shove. Likewise no reason for you to bet fold the turn when you know his shoving range is far more weighted to draw combos than better made hands. But u know this anyway