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Poker Forums => Poker Hand Analysis => Topic started by: muckthenuts on December 20, 2011, 07:27:21 PM



Title: Monte Carlo b/f top pair in 3b pot?
Post by: muckthenuts on December 20, 2011, 07:27:21 PM
Mid way through day 2. New ish to the table, villian is a young guy with a big stack. He seems to be a good player being aggro pre and post. I've been quite active and been opening a fair bit usually taking it down without showdown. Haven't played a hand of note vs villian yet.

Eff stacks 180k
Blinds 1.5/3k/antes

Villian opens from MP1 to 6.2k.
Hero in BB with  Ac Ks 3bets to 18.8k.
Villain calls.

Flop  Ahrt Jc Tc

Hero cbets 27k. Villain thinks for quite a while then raises to 64k.

I thought this was gross. Think he might defend wideish pre but i dunno about flop bluffing tendencies at all. So many of his value hands are blocked is this important? Standard b/f?


Title: Re: Monte Carlo b/f top pair in 3b pot?
Post by: cambridgealex on December 20, 2011, 07:36:48 PM
id check flop


Title: Re: Monte Carlo b/f top pair in 3b pot?
Post by: toddswain on December 20, 2011, 07:37:27 PM
Oh sick, remember this, going playing footy, but will post when i get back, v. interesting hand


Title: Re: Monte Carlo b/f top pair in 3b pot?
Post by: pleno1 on December 20, 2011, 11:22:27 PM
I mean his value range is super thin. I jam, we have bd clubs, gutter, our k out is like alot too and sometimes our A too and its really hard for him to have it. Thoughts on checking?


Title: Re: Monte Carlo b/f top pair in 3b pot?
Post by: jezza777 on December 21, 2011, 12:03:09 AM
We have  Ac so jam seems fair.


Title: Re: Monte Carlo b/f top pair in 3b pot?
Post by: pleno1 on December 21, 2011, 12:04:34 AM
We have  Ac so jam seems fair.

its less likely he's raise calling with pair+fd tho.


Title: Re: Monte Carlo b/f top pair in 3b pot?
Post by: jezza777 on December 21, 2011, 12:12:31 AM
Flop is so wet it's a good spot for him to raise? We get some  folds when we jam?


Title: Re: Monte Carlo b/f top pair in 3b pot?
Post by: SuuPRlim on December 21, 2011, 11:18:58 AM
We have  Ac so jam seems fair.

its less likely he's raise calling with pair+fd tho.

yh Ac makes it less of a jam for me too. fwiw I dont think he's raise folding this board ever


Title: Re: Monte Carlo b/f top pair in 3b pot?
Post by: sm00035 on December 21, 2011, 02:10:25 PM
Defo checking back flop here. After you have bet, think it is a pretty easy bet/fold


Title: Re: Monte Carlo b/f top pair in 3b pot?
Post by: skolsuper on December 21, 2011, 04:17:42 PM
A check on the flop opens your opponent's range up a bit and is defs the preferred line against anyone decent. Once you bet tho, go with it imo. You're not that happy about it, but as already posted, you have some equity when called and if villain is ever folding a shove is just so full of win.


Title: Re: Monte Carlo b/f top pair in 3b pot?
Post by: muckthenuts on December 21, 2011, 05:12:19 PM
A check on the flop opens your opponent's range up a bit and is defs the preferred line against anyone decent. Once you bet tho, go with it imo. You're not that happy about it, but as already posted, you have some equity when called and if villain is ever folding a shove is just so full of win.

What's your checking range here assuming i'm 3betting this spot on the tighter side? I think i'd continue with almost all my value range, KK/QQ hands and also any bluffs, so i'm not sure if i should have a checking range at all?


Title: Re: Monte Carlo b/f top pair in 3b pot?
Post by: muckthenuts on December 23, 2011, 06:38:25 AM
Bump. Somebody good elaborate why they might check this flop, I don't quite get it.


Title: Re: Monte Carlo b/f top pair in 3b pot?
Post by: pleno1 on December 23, 2011, 09:10:51 AM
pot control.

a young guy could get ideas and get adventurous and commit chips if we check, whilst if we bet not much continues, at least not for two streets and tis probably easier to get value on turn and/or river if we check than if we bet. Also we get ourself in a hard situation where we end up levelling ourself when we bet and he raises.


Title: Re: Monte Carlo b/f top pair in 3b pot?
Post by: action man on December 23, 2011, 10:20:41 AM
like the sizing pre and post, but I dont think he will be peeling this size wide a ton of the time, and once he does he's bluffing this flop such a small % of the time. Such a puke spot, it feels spewy getting it in here to me, are we not better peeling the flop if we wanna get it in, to keep his random bluffs in? The turn could also bring us draw equity and you might pick up a ninja tell, or he could do something really weird on the turn. Post hand I agree that check might be best, but really, how often are we getting raised on this flop? I dont think folding is a mistake here or exploitable, this flop hits your bb 3bet range so hard that for him to raise here shows so much strength.


Title: Re: Monte Carlo b/f top pair in 3b pot?
Post by: cambridgealex on December 23, 2011, 11:13:48 AM
pot control.

a young guy could get ideas and get adventurous and commit chips if we check, whilst if we bet not much continues, at least not for two streets and tis probably easier to get value on turn and/or river if we check than if we bet. Also we get ourself in a hard situation where we end up levelling ourself when we bet and he raises.

this


Title: Re: Monte Carlo b/f top pair in 3b pot?
Post by: cambridgealex on December 23, 2011, 11:16:02 AM
for us cash player amir it's a strange concept, but at this stage where stacks are 20-40bbs deep and each chip is worth so much, pot control becomes essential.


Title: Re: Monte Carlo b/f top pair in 3b pot?
Post by: Royal Flush on December 23, 2011, 11:33:14 AM
A check on the flop opens your opponent's range up a bit and is defs the preferred line against anyone decent. Once you bet tho, go with it imo. You're not that happy about it, but as already posted, you have some equity when called and if villain is ever folding a shove is just so full of win.

What's your checking range here assuming i'm 3betting this spot on the tighter side? I think i'd continue with almost all my value range, KK/QQ hands and also any bluffs, so i'm not sure if i should have a checking range at all?

Pretty sure i never c/b this board unless i have air/draws.

Betting nearly always gets through so with our value hands its pretty meh


Title: Re: Monte Carlo b/f top pair in 3b pot?
Post by: pez102 on December 23, 2011, 06:57:23 PM
def checking flop here, as played i def fold, i doubt he's ever folding here, feels like he has you beat almost all the time, he just has jj 10 10 kq aj a10 all time imo, like i dont even see this guy having a flush draw if he's decent, seems like a decent spot to just call flop with that and get payed when it comes a broccoli and maybe bluff if need be.


Title: Re: Monte Carlo b/f top pair in 3b pot?
Post by: ih8winning on December 23, 2011, 07:49:58 PM
I do like checking the flop here dude with eff staks at 180k I think bet folding sucks way to much. Check calling i like a alot then evaluate turn if im ever betting the flop here its because im not folding.