blonde poker forum

Blinds 250/500.

Raise to 1100.

Player next to act flicks in two 1k chips.

Call or a raise? Why?

Is the rule standard worldwide? I know what the DTD rule is but it's not common knowledge and a dealer ruled it the wrong way just now.

Pretty sure the standard rule is a call. Read it on Matthew savages twitter (brag)

Raise for me being 2 chips first raise is 500 with 600 then 3 bettor makes it with 900.
Are you in Dtd

Yes

honestly not sure which is DTD rule which is generic.


thought there was a specification for an un-announced reraise that if over half the previous raise amount was in it goes as a raise if not a call?

Mmmmmm. I used to do a small amount of dealing at a local club of ours in Kings Lynn. I would personally take it as a raise. Had I been playing and I didn't have any smaller denomination chips I would be verbally telling the dealer what I intended it to be. But if all the dealers are trained to a certain standard there shouldn't be many mistakes at the table. What is the dtd ruling and is it the same for cash?

It's something to do with it being two identical chips and if you take one out and it could be classed as a call, then it's a call.

Bedi can you remember what Matt Savage said?

Call in my experience.

Probably have to ask dik9. For me this is a raise.

No mate but shall I ask him for u?

Taken from the Official TDA Rules website...

http://www.pokertda.com/custom_posts/view-official-tda-rules/

39:   Multiple Chip Betting
When facing a bet, unless a raise is first declared, multiple same-denomination chips is a call if removing one chip leaves less than the call amount. Example of a call: preflop, blinds are 200-400: A raises to 1200 total (an 800 raise), B puts out two 1000 chips without declaring raise. This is just a call because removing one 1000 chip leaves less than the amount needed to call the 1200 bet. Placing mixed denomination chips in the pot is governed by the 50% standard in Rule 37.

Why should it matter at all what denoms of chips you are using?! Raise is legit IMO

Think it would likely be the opposite of that surely?  ie if one of the chips is removed it wouldn't be enough for a call - so its a call

nah think its fair enough to class as a call - less angleshooting opportunities.

Cheers Big D, spot on.

Call it is, though the dealer ruled it as a raise before the floor was called, so it was too late. Ryan as usual gave a spot on ruling.

clearly a call under that rule but it's a terrible rule imo

Why?

Bet is increased to a legal size using more than one chip. This bollocks about using the same denomination so shouldnt go is rubbish. Give a reason why the same denomination rule is in there...makes no sense.

Because its a legit raise.

But you can put the same two chips in as a call - you can choose to interpret this ambiguity either by determining that it is ruled a call or ruled a raise.  The general convention in poker is for such scenarios to be ruled as calls eg single oversized chip put in silently.

 

if live wasn't full of such angleshooting a-holes creating a comprehensive set of rules would be easier.

I think its fair enough to be a call but still i think players shoot them selves in the foot by just not declaring what they are doing when it is not obvious like in this situation....

yh. just say raise its like the easiest word to say.

call is more fun especially if the bet size hasn't been decided on.

seriously baller :0

it doesnt matter if it's two of the same chips. can be different value chips and the ruling is still the same,

say wut?

so a 5k chip + a 1k chip = two chips and should go as a call. the fact the two chips are the same is very important.

Apparently so according to this rule.

Two different denom chips equaling a legit raise amount certainly would not go as a call.

Can see the argument, SENSIBLE ruling is call. I would see call 100% of time.

To COMPLETELY rule out angle shooting I guess a raise, but I guess most people who want to 2k it would probably announce as 98.41% of people would probably see a call in that spot.

depends on the action though. obv if you make it 1 thousand and i throw in a 5k and a 100 chip its a raise. taking away either chip is more than a call. but if you minraise someone to 1100 and i throw in a 1k and a 500 its two different value chips but still a call.

and this is why the rule is an absolute farce

i agree, i dont like the rule at all, although it doesnt leave much scope for angling. except possibly throwing in the call gauging the reaction of the player your in the hand with. although that would only work if you knew they didnt know it was a call, so not much chance of that. personally think it should be a raise but such is life

Bad example, or lolraise ?

lol bad example maybe. personally i think if you put anything past the betting line and its more than 50% of the min raise it should be a raise. wether its 2 chips 5 chips or 20 rotten banana skins

Look at dealer, say raise or call, job done.

This thread is pissing me off so i am done with it.

Its a mfkin raise ffs and rule is gay.

lol The rule and ruling is about two chips of the same denomination, not a 5k chip and a 100 chip - this is like ppl making up EU regs and saying they prove the EU is crap.

yh its just so retarded. I do it sometimes by mistake (just plain sloppy) and end up calling when I wanted to raise but w/e just dont do it.

Call, anywhere I've worked.


Bet is 1100 a player only has 10x1k chips puts 2 1k chips in its a call
Therefore if a player has a mixture of chips and puts in 2 1k chips without saying anything then the same rule has to apply. Cant have 1 rule for 1 and a different rule for the same action. If they want to raise just say raise ........ simplez

Finally some sense itt.

People getting tilted by what is obviously a good rule (see above) is tilting in itself!

Obviously a terrible use of the word obviously.  Got to say I find that a bit tilting.

Thought you went to a school where they learnt you good English, sir*.

* Sent the other half of the forum on tilt there.

the above doesn't show that it's a good rule, just that it's a rule. if the rule was that it goes as a raise then dik9 would've posted


would that make that version of it a good rule?

Terrible grammatically or terrible in that you disagree?

Btw, if using the phrase "learnt you good English" was intentional irony, wp.

Gatso, in ruling threads we seem to be in agreement most of the time, but I am presuming that you have the devil in you today :)
Every version of well known poker rules that i have read repeat this "rule"(the one quoted in the first page ott), the reason it's common is because it is sensible.

I don't actually care about this rule one way or the other, it's fine, it works and it's fair. just don't really understand it as I think a raise would make more sense but there's no reason to change it

It is just an extension of the "oversize chip" rule that is needed if 2 chips of the same value are required to cover the call.

The funny thing is, the reason I know this ruling and the reason I know why its like it is was explained to me when I worked at DTD. Happened to be Richard that came across and enlightened me/the table so pretty pointless me arguing the toss when Yoda is already in there swinging his lightsaber!

i agree with the rule. seems like the best way

As gatso said

You could say "obviously a good ruling" or " obviously the correct rule", but  " obviously a good rule" can't be correct.  We can show it isn't obvious by the number of people in the thread not realising it existed.   I still think it is a bad rule. 

Your pedantically Doobs

Dik9, While we are on rulings.


Can a hand be declared dead if a player leaves the table ?

If the player had tabled his cards which I presume he did because you know what they are, then no way.  But IMO a player has to be at the table to turn his cards.

However, a player should never be called back by the TD/dealer

Tks.

So you're playing in a £1/£2 cash game at DTD and there's a raise to £6.

A guy flicks in two red £5 chips and says nothing.

Tell me, learned friends, how often have you seen this being done with the intention to raise (without any verbal statement of intention)? Why should there be any difference between that and this tournament?

I can not believe there have been 4 pages on this. Rule is clear and it is a call.


As for the above this would be a raise to a total of 6k as the 5k covers the call so the 1k chip is additional.

I tend to play in games where if this happens the dealer just asks the player "is that a raise or a call?" makes far more sense

Same, even though our stakes are a million miles apart