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Community Forums => The Lounge => Topic started by: Tal on July 16, 2012, 03:17:21 AM



Title: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on July 16, 2012, 03:17:21 AM
Those of you who enjoyed the coverage of that and the analysis of the games will likely enjoy English Grandmaster Danny King's instructional videos called "What happens next?".

This is the first: YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQHCIGlP6Sk

There are 5 now, I think, and I've only just stumbled across them. It's a clever idea: he takes you through a few moves of a game, explains the position to you and then asks you which of two moves you should play next. You then have to click on one side of the video to open up a new video (either explaining why you were wrong or confirming why you were right)

Enjoy


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: skolsuper on July 16, 2012, 03:50:56 AM
Got it wrong :(


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on July 16, 2012, 05:14:59 AM
They're not designed to be easy, of course, but the way that Danny King presents it and explains the ideas - and the solutions - really allows you to take something away from it.

Persevere with the other 4 and see if you improve.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on July 16, 2012, 11:32:24 AM
Jeez, I am SO bad.......


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: celtic on July 16, 2012, 01:04:51 PM
Have never played chess. Are these videos ok for complete beginners to watch, or do I need to know the basics first?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: pleno1 on July 16, 2012, 01:55:59 PM
actually some very interesting news coming from me soon regarding chess, hopefully will be a huge positive impact on the game.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on July 16, 2012, 08:13:40 PM
Have never played chess. Are these videos ok for complete beginners to watch, or do I need to know the basics first?

I think you would need some form of basic knowledge (how thepieces move) as it's not designed for total beginners. However, my advice would be to spend 5 mins with this video and see how you find the level of it. Have a look at the end position and see whether you can work out a few possible ideas before clicking on the move you want to play.

If the second video still makes no sense, it might have been too much, but it's the only way you'll know for sure.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on July 18, 2012, 07:48:27 PM
Really enjoyable ty Tal


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Skippy on July 18, 2012, 08:36:05 PM
If you want to learn chess, start at http://www.chesskids.com/lessons04.shtml. It's the old version of his website, but it will get you going. Ignore that a lot of it is for da kidz.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: nosey-p on July 19, 2012, 07:20:41 AM
Played chess at school level, (was captain). Played for Rotherham chess club and played and got to a south Yorkshire under 18 final when I was 14. But not played since leaving school. This has wet my apatite to play again     


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: youthnkzR on July 19, 2012, 11:27:43 AM
Got it wrong :(


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on July 23, 2012, 09:55:11 PM
By all means persevere at your leisure with the series. A quick search on YouTube will reveal the others.

I provided a basic coverage of the top flight competition, the Tal Memorial, a few weeks back. Well, there are a few comps on at the moment, but the top players are a big more spread out, rather than all being in on tournament.

You might remember young Mr Caruana, who came so close towinning the Tal Memorial, only to fall at the final hurdle. He has just won a comp in Dortmund against strong opposition, so he remains a man in good form.

What of the champ and World Number 1, Magnus Carlsen? He has just started a comp in Biel, along with 5 other strong GMs in a double-round-robin (you play all five guys as white and black). He drew the first game but the other two matches resulted in wins, so he sits half a point behind after the first game. Hikaru Nakamura of the USA is Carlsen's most obvious challenger, but these are all good players.


http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8351 (http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8351)

The reference is made in the write-up to a "Poisoned Pawn". It's an odd choice of phrase, really, but chess people aren't known for their well-roundedness...

On the link above, have a look at the game between Chinese GM Wang Hao and French Number 1 Etienne Bacrot. When it gets to move 20, Black has to choose whether to take the pawn on c4 with his queen. Bacrot decides he can and so does.

Wang Hao has let Bacrot take the pawn so that he can get his bishop to b3 (which he does immediately), in order that it is pointing on the long diagonal towards the Black King.

There are now three plans for White, which work on the clever idea that, if your opponent has one weakness, give him two. If he has two give him three...

He has an attack possible on the King because of the diagonal his bishop his on - and, as we will see, the dark squared diagonal beneath it.

Secondly, he will have the e-pawn, which will start to march forward. Because Black will have to make moves to stop the two diagonals, he will have to allow the pawn to get forward.

The third plan kicks in because Black gets cramped from all the defending. White gets a big, powerful centre for his heavy artillery, which, as pieces get swapped off, leads to Black's king getting exposed. Eventually, it is too much and Bacrot resigned just before he was about to lose material.

The Poisoned Pawn gets another victim!



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on July 24, 2012, 11:42:27 PM
An absolute Juggernaut of an attack from Magnus Carlsen saw him bring home the bacon in his game today in Biel against Wang Hao.

http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8357 (http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8357) gets you to the coverage. Just have a look at how white's pieces swarm the king. Black never gets forward and his rooks never get free.

Closer to home, the British Championships started yesterday in North Shields this time. It is two weeks of endeavour for an historically prestigious title.

Today, partly due to lack of strong sponsorship, the main event doesn't attract all the top players (the top three ranked players have not attended, although Luke McShane would not have been expected to be here, as he works in the City). Nevertheless, the strongest three who have entered are exciting young talents, with Gawain Jones the top seed. He has improved in the past couple of years from a decent, solid grandmaster to one promising to go further towards the top 100.

David Howell has played in tournaments with the elite and is second seed, narrowly behind Gawain in the rankings. Both were child prodigies, although David more famously, as he holds the record for the youngest person ever to beat a Grandmaster (he beat John Nunn in a blitz game aged...8 in 1999. Yes, eight. As in 8 ). He also drew a game in 2002 with then World Champion, Vladimir Kramnik, which made him national news.

Steven Gordon was another outstanding junior player, although not quite the headline-maker of the two above. He was British Under 21 Champion 4 years in a row (2005-8) amongst a number of other achievements and will be looking to secure the main title this year. I do have a 1-1 record against Ste (although he might have been 11 when I beat him...).

They aren't the only Grandmasters on show and there are lots of exciting juniors looking to make a name for themselves. There is also the opportunity to get one of the tournament performances (called Norms) required to get a master title.

Coverage is available on the website directly (with live streams of the games from about 2.30pm each day) or via sites like http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8355 (http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8355) where there will be evening reports of the action.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on July 24, 2012, 11:44:55 PM
Whether to do with any of the games or coverage, or just general stuff, if anyone has any questions, I'd be more than happy to see whether I can answer them.

Hope you enjoy the information anyway.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on July 25, 2012, 11:12:37 AM
Hi Tal.

Don't let the lack of interaction make you think there's not much interest in the thread. If I had anything remotely intelligent to bring to the table I would but I'll have to remain an observer for now.

I very rarely play chess but I'm definitely enjoying the information you're providing and it's starting to make me want to play a bit. I also enjoyed those videos which you recommended.

Please keep it up.

Matt


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on July 25, 2012, 12:45:14 PM
Hi Tal.

Don't let the lack of interaction make you think there's not much interest in the thread. If I had anything remotely intelligent to bring to the table I would but I'll have to remain an observer for now.

I very rarely play chess but I'm definitely enjoying the information you're providing and it's starting to make me want to play a bit. I also enjoyed those videos which you recommended.

Please keep it up.

Matt

Very kind of you. Thank you.

As long as the views keep going up, I will carry on, but I do welcome feedback (whether posted or PMd) on the content and style of what I put on the thread. If you enjoy the latest games, if you want to keep up with who's winning tourneys, if you want something more instructive (old games or positions that explain tactics or ideas), if you want historical anecdotes and interesting stories, I'd like to know.

Of course, if you HAVE any of the above yourselves to share, please do. The more of a forum thread it is the better!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on July 26, 2012, 10:20:51 PM
A few things of interest for you from the British Championships.

Firstly, the current standings, as round 4 has just finished.

Top seed Gawain Jones has won all four of his games, including one against number 3 seed Steven Gordon today, and has the sole lead. In second place is a relatively unfancied player in James Holland, who has achived 3.5 out of 4, despite having to play four titled players in a Grandmaster, an International Master and two FIDE Masters. The two of them will face each other tomorrow.

There is a cluster of players on 3/4, including both Steven Gordon and David Howell, as well as all but one of the remaining Grandmasters.

The website for the tournament is http://britishchesschampionships.co.uk (http://britishchesschampionships.co.uk) and you might well enjoy the feature whereby you can watch all the games from the main competition live each afternoon. If you're really keen (ahem), you might take a peek at the webcams.

Commentary

For something a little more user-friendly, the British Championships has had a commentary room for some years now, which is a great feature of bigger tournaments.

The Tal Memorial thread included some discussion about getting chess on TV and I explained that it’s very hard to commentate live, when your brain (and the brain of those commentating) doesn’t work as quickly as the chaps at the board. The live commentary environment is the closest we get these days.

The last time I went to one, there was a room (classroom-size) full of players of all abilities, some with laptops with chess programs on, some with their own magnetic boards, all focusing on the man at the front. It was the same man who is commentating this fortnight, International Master, Andrew Martin.

The top 4 boards were all up on display at the front of the room for those present to study and, as the moves are played, Andrew flicks between them and looks to explain what is going on. Players throw out moves, some insightful, some terrible, but all respected. Occasionally, no one can work out what the players are up to (not something we see in live sports but perhaps something with which people who’ve watched live poker might be more familiar with) and that’s when it gets really fun.

If you can, I’d really recommend watching it.

Game of the Day

Andrew’s work doesn’t finish when the clocks stop, though; he prepares a video on his favourite game of the day.

Of those I’ve seen, game 2 was a belter. Gawain Jones put on a bit of a masterclass against a weaker opponent (still a strong County standard player) in Terry Chapman. Chapman played an opening very much en vogue over the past couple of years.

A lot of big names have played the Black side of the opening a number of times and, for my sins, I have given it a go in practice over the past 12 months, hoping to take it up as one of my main openings. It’s a quiet opening, where you let White come at you a bit, but safe in the knowledge that your structure is solid and is hard to break down, so you can counter the weaknesses White will inevitably leave behind as he comes forward.

The trouble is playing accurately, because there’s little room for error. Here, Jones got an edge, turned it into an attack, converted the attack to a material advantage and then changed plan again, switching to winning the game with his material, rather than going for the enemy King. It’s the artistry of the Grandmaster in these games that shows them for who they are; they are able to judge these positions so well and know when the time is right to change plan.

If you have 15 minutes to spare, watch Andrew Martin’s analysis of the game. Whatever your level, you will get something from it, as Andrew is able to explain basic strategy and advanced theoretical points in the same breath.

As ever, I welcome your feedback (thank you again to those who have taken the time to do so) and, above all, enjoy…

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM5nPGCpuB8
 




Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on July 27, 2012, 11:19:06 AM

I echo what many others have Posted, Tal, this is a great thread, please keep it going even if you do not get many replies.

This "commentary" thing interests me. Are the commentators routinely dissed, as they are in poker, or is there more tolerance &, perhaps, understanding?

And when a player makes a move which is questionable, or perhaps not widely understood, do they get grief from lesser players, or is the mindset more respectful??


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on July 27, 2012, 12:00:51 PM
I need a website and an android app to start playing again.

I've got a few days off soon and I'm going to lie on the beach playing chess against my computer.

Any thoughts on the best ones to go for?

Would prefer free but don't mind paying for something if it's worth it.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on July 27, 2012, 12:36:37 PM
Shredder is a cracker. Costs £4 ish. You get a strong computer to play against (which you can set at whatever strength you want, but which gets stronger if you beat it, so you find your level). You also get a "tactics" feature, where you have to work out the next move on a series of puzzles.

The engine rates your moves by assessing the position after each move, so you can see how you're getting on.

Not sure about internet sites you can access easily by phone where you can play chess against others.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on July 27, 2012, 01:09:10 PM
Sounds great. I shall make an investment of 4 whole pounds very soon.

Any good ones for playing against friends that you know of? No doubt there's loads available but I'd prefer to go on a recommendation.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on July 27, 2012, 01:16:08 PM
Must admit I don't have one like that on my phone so not much help there. I do sometimes use PlayChess on my laptop, which is free for basic software (all you need) and has a subscription for a lot more content (lectures, commentary). Huge range of players on it - magnus carlsen to magnus random.

Lots of others about tho. If it has a board, a clock and the ability for your friends to play you, it will be fine!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on July 27, 2012, 02:07:42 PM

I echo what many others have Posted, Tal, this is a great thread, please keep it going even if you do not get many replies.

This "commentary" thing interests me. Are the commentators routinely dissed, as they are in poker, or is there more tolerance &, perhaps, understanding?

And when a player makes a move which is questionable, or perhaps not widely understood, do they get grief from lesser players, or is the mindset more respectful??

It's not that different to anything else, really. Hataz gotta hate etc.

On the whole, commentators are respected players before they are commentators, so the content should be good. Delivery, interaction with a live audience, display of personal opinion range wildly, just as with any other game.

As for when a player makes a mistake, if a superstar player blunders, it makes chess news. There are plenty of articles and reports out there, going back as long as the game itself. Everyone has a "senior moment", just as Phil Ivey misread his hand the one occasion he wore sunglasses (seem to recall that being a story?).

In a World Championship final over a hundred years ago, Chigorin made what is often quoted as the biggest blunder (as much because of the context of the situation) against William Steinitz. He moved away the one piece preventing himself being checkmated.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1036366 (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1036366)

Bobby Fischer made an elementary error in the famous match against Boris Spassky, by taking a pawn which led to his Bishop being trapped. He got a lot of stick for that, although it was just one small part of a match full of oddities.

As for us mortals, we all make 'misclicks' and it's one of those things, generally speaking, that you laugh off (usually after a lie down in a darkened room/kicking the cat/drowning your sorrows) amongst friends.

We'd need a bigger thread for the mistakes I've made in games!



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on July 27, 2012, 03:49:50 PM

Bobby Fischer made an elementary error in the famous match against Boris Spassky, by taking a pawn which led to his Bishop being trapped. He got a lot of stick for that, although it was just one small part of a match full of oddities.


This is the sort of thing I don't get. Why is having your bishop trapped such a bad thing? (Except in your zip when it's obviously terrible).

Surely having a bishop trapped means that the other guy has a few pieces locked up trapping it so effectively they're trapped themselves?

At my level if my bishop was trapped I'd just forget about it and move along to something else. At what level does the trapping of one piece become a match winner/loser?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on July 27, 2012, 08:39:49 PM

Bobby Fischer made an elementary error in the famous match against Boris Spassky, by taking a pawn which led to his Bishop being trapped. He got a lot of stick for that, although it was just one small part of a match full of oddities.


This is the sort of thing I don't get. Why is having your bishop trapped such a bad thing? (Except in your zip when it's obviously terrible).

Surely having a bishop trapped means that the other guy has a few pieces locked up trapping it so effectively they're trapped themselves?

At my level if my bishop was trapped I'd just forget about it and move along to something else. At what level does the trapping of one piece become a match winner/loser?


From club standard up, the loss of a bishop, knight or worse tends to be curtains. There are exceptions, which generally involve the other player getting compensation for the piece loss. By this, I mean he has something to off-set the deficit in material, such as a better attack, or the opponent’s extra piece not being in a good position,

Imagine playing a five a side football game where you lose a man. The difference in numbers makes it so hard against a reasonably competent team, who know how to keep the ball, use the space and make you chase shadows. The loss of a bishop can be that unpleasant at club level.

At master level, it’s generally an automatic resignation; it is assumed that the other chap will finish you off and it’s best to save your energy for another day. Actually, it’s a step further: if there’s no obvious compensation for the piece, it can be considered an insult to carry on at that level (effectively suggesting that your opponent isn’t good enough to be guaranteed to finish you off).

If I can explain this all more specifically, put a bishop in the middle of an empty board and see how many squares it covers in one go. Ok, now throw a couple of pawns on for each side (say the king and queen pawns in the place they start the game) and a king each. Play some moves for each side and see how easy it is to win with the bishop. All you do is creep forward with the pawns, get your king involved and slowly force the opposing king back with your bishop. If the king doesn’t retreat, the pawns can become targets for the bishop, which can – as we have established – cover a lot of ground and a lot more quickly than His Majesty.

Once you win one of the pawns, you can either look to win the other one or swap it off for one of yours. Then, you march your pawn forward and, whereas you have to be careful not to stalemate your opponent in a King + Pawn v King situation, the bishop can force the enemy king away with checks and you will get your pawn home to queen, with checkmate soon to follow.

So, if you get a bishop up, one way of winning is to swap the other large pieces off and win with the extra bishop.

How do you force exchanges? The answer might seem a little odd, but the best way is often to attack. If you just oppose the pieces, the other guy doesn’t have to take; he can just move away. But, if you attack (remember you have extra artillery, so can offer more muscle in the attack), the only solution might be to get rid of the threatening pieces by swapping them off. If he doesn’t do that, your extra piece can often be decisive because you can attack something once more than he can defend it. Slowly, as pieces come off, the advantage becomes one for the endgame and you get to the sort of position I’ve described above.

Fischer didn’t lose the piece immediately in the Spassky game, but he took a pawn which Spassky had left unattended on purpose, because there is a well-known (even at junior/novice level) trick of leaving the pawn in front of where the rook starts. If the bishop takes it, you push the knight’s pawn up one and the bishop is trapped – the incarceration of the
prelate. It’s not called that, but we shall do so for our purposes!

In all seriousness, does that help?




Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on July 28, 2012, 02:38:57 PM
Thanks for that Tal. Yes it helps a lot.

I liked the bit about forcing exchanges. So basically if I was to get a piece up at any stage if I can swap off all the others my advantage becomes larger.

What about the rook vs bishop scrap? I understand that the rook is a more powerful piece that the bishop but why is this?

Also in the end game. If it was king vs king + some other pieces what's the minimum requirement of other pieces to be able to force a check mate? Can you do it with just a pawn advantage?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on July 29, 2012, 02:25:12 PM
Thanks for that Tal. Yes it helps a lot.

I liked the bit about forcing exchanges. So basically if I was to get a piece up at any stage if I can swap off all the others my advantage becomes larger.

What about the rook vs bishop scrap? I understand that the rook is a more powerful piece that the bishop but why is this?

Also in the end game. If it was king vs king + some other pieces what's the minimum requirement of other pieces to be able to force a check mate? Can you do it with just a pawn advantage?

The bishop can only cover 32 squares of the board, whether attacking or defending. Linking your questions together, the rook is also a mating piece, as King + Rook can mate a King, where the same can't be said of a lone bishop.

As for the requirements for mate, I can't do better than wikipedia...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Checkmate


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on July 29, 2012, 08:19:52 PM
Found a new move today whilst playing against Shredder. "En Passant". Had never heard of that before.

Seems a really good piece of software and not too bad at £5.99

I'm just going to play around a bit at first then I want to learn a few of the standard openings. I've heard some names but don't know what any of them are yet.

What would be the best ones to learn for a novice?

Also how long do the standard openings go on for? Are they just rough guides or do they have to be exact?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on July 29, 2012, 09:13:42 PM
Found a new move today whilst playing against Shredder. "En Passant". Had never heard of that before.

Seems a really good piece of software and not too bad at £5.99

I'm just going to play around a bit at first then I want to learn a few of the standard openings. I've heard some names but don't know what any of them are yet.

What would be the best ones to learn for a novice?

Also how long do the standard openings go on for? Are they just rough guides or do they have to be exact?

If you think a lot of theory has been written about poker, just have a look at the books on chess openings. Put it into context: starting from move one, White has 20 possible first moves (eight pawns that can move either one or two squares up, plus two knights which each have two possible destinations). To each of those 20 moves, Black has 20 possible responses. Already, there are 400 possible positions after move 1.

Opening theory for a club player would go to 10-15 moves (10-15 white and 10-15 black moves) for the important lines and maybe 7-10 for the less common lines. For the top players, you’ll find them knowing not just 20+ moves of the main lines, but also the little intricacies: changes of move order and their significance.

Club players will have their own favourite lines; their stock responses as Black and their standard openings as White.

Move order can be important, certainly, but when you are starting out, all I would advise is to watch out for anything that can be taken; any immediate tactics. If you can avoid that, the order will be less significant for the time being.

The learning isn’t as daunting as it sounds, I promise. Think of it more like in poker, where the basics of call/raise/check/fold are easy, then you learn about position/pot odds/stack sizes/bet sizes and finally you start wearing hoodies, buying beats headphones and triple-rangemerging the face off dem pigeons.

As for what you should play, openings tend to suit style, so have a play around and see what works for you – see what sort of positions you tend to get into and then see if there is an opening that most easily fits.

The vast majority of players will start 1.e4 (pawn in front of the king up two) or 1.d4 (pawn in front of the queen up two). The first often leads to sharper, more tactical positions, whereas the second are generally quieter and more positional games. That’s a simplistic summary, but covers the details.
If you wanted an opening to start out with, I would recommend taking a look at an opening called the Vienna Game. It is one I have given new starters to look at in the past. The idea is the theory on it is pretty manageable (there are only a few lines to consider) and the themes as to what you should be doing will keep coming up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Game

My advice would be to look at the first half dozen moves in one of the lines (pick the third move that appeals), then have a go at playing it against either someone on the internet or a computer. Only after doing that should you go back to the books to see how you’re getting on.
 


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on July 29, 2012, 09:26:17 PM
My head hurts :D


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on July 29, 2012, 09:30:11 PM
How quickly should you look to castle? Is there an advantage to being the first to castle and is it something you should usually look to do?

Is it considered more of a protective move to get your king in to a corner or attacking as it gets a rook in to the middle?

I'm just off to play Mr shredder again. I'm up to 1200 now whatever that means. I think I'm still crap :D


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on July 29, 2012, 09:31:25 PM
My head hurts :D

LOL yeah careful of that!

First few simple bits for any opening:
  • Get a pawn into the centre
  • Get your knights and bishops out
  • Castle
  • Watch what the other guy's up to incase there's any threats or traps


Everything else - for now - is secondary and you don't need to worry about it. Just read as much as you want and study as much as you want as long as you are still enjoying it.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on July 29, 2012, 09:34:12 PM
Have a look at what Mr Shredder does. He'll castle most of the time. It will form part of the 'development' stage of the opening.

Get your bits out and castle. Can't say fairer than that in the opening.

Castling first isn't an issue, but developing more quickly than your opponent can be decisive.

Get your bits out and castle!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on July 29, 2012, 09:39:52 PM
Have a look at what Mr Shredder does. He'll castle most of the time. It will form part of the 'development' stage of the opening.

Get your bits out and castle. Can't say fairer than that in the opening.

Castling first isn't an issue, but developing more quickly than your opponent can be decisive.

Get your bits out and castle!

I like this. It means I'm doing it basically right :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on July 29, 2012, 09:54:28 PM
Something for everyone, I hope.

Magnus Carlsen was on the US show 60 minutes a few months ago.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxBtrT_qZgI

He's quite something.

He's filmed at, amongst other places, the London Chess Classic, which I have been to watch for the last two years. It will be on in December, I believe in Kensington Olympia. Will post details nearer the date.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on July 29, 2012, 10:21:31 PM
Unbelievable.

The bit where he plays against 10 other players without seeing the boards is quite something.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: GreekStein on July 30, 2012, 02:43:16 AM
wow loved that!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: millidonk on July 30, 2012, 08:31:37 AM
Utterly astounding, the playing 10 boards blind was just out of this world, last time I remember watching something feeling like this was after I watched:

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSqUcrFJ498


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on July 30, 2012, 08:52:14 AM

Love this thread more & more, & now it's gaining momentum. Please keep it going Tal!

This I enjoyed, too....

The learning isn’t as daunting as it sounds, I promise. Think of it more like in poker, where the basics of call/raise/check/fold are easy, then you learn about position/pot odds/stack sizes/bet sizes and finally you start wearing hoodies, buying beats headphones and triple-rangemerging the face off dem pigeons.

PS - I can confirm that Evil Pie is crap.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on July 30, 2012, 10:32:16 AM
Carlsen's ten is impressive, but what if I told you that the world record is 46?

The Godfather of blindfold chess - arguably of modern chess itself - is Alexander Alekhine about whom I could happily fill the entire bandwidth of this forum.

As for blindfold chess itself, here's a starter for 10: http://www.blindfoldchess.net/


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on July 31, 2012, 10:38:47 PM
On the subject of blindfold chess, here is one of the most famous: a game by Alexander Alekhine in which he made a clever tactical move that the audience missed, as did his opponent!

Remember that neither player can see the board in this game. They would be sitting back to back and shouting out moves.

Can you find the killer combination?

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Qfjc4e35Lg


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on July 31, 2012, 10:40:56 PM
Don't know the commentator, btw. The game was played in 1931.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on July 31, 2012, 10:51:02 PM
Love it. I'm getting in to this now.

I really enjoy playing against shredder. I like that you can play out a game and then back track to where you went wrong and play the game out again. Excellent recommendation. Thanks for that.

I'm getting better by the way but still making really silly mistakes. Every now and then I'll move a piece and leave something totally exposed. Doh!!!! Thankfully shredder let's you take it back when you do something really stupid.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 01, 2012, 09:29:25 AM
Love it. I'm getting in to this now.

I really enjoy playing against shredder. I like that you can play out a game and then back track to where you went wrong and play the game out again. Excellent recommendation. Thanks for that.

I'm getting better by the way but still making really silly mistakes. Every now and then I'll move a piece and leave something totally exposed. Doh!!!! Thankfully shredder let's you take it back when you do something really stupid.

The best advice I can give you on that is, just before you play a move, have a last look round to see whether there is anything immediate your opponent can do. Imagine you have made your move. Look at the position then and just make sure all is well.

Simple, straightforward advice that is the solution to a staggeringly high percentage of the blunders made from rank beginners, club players and World Champions alike. We all do it!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 01, 2012, 08:10:34 PM
Another of the great players was the American Paul Morphy. He was the best player in the world in the middle of the 19th Century, although there was no World Championship per se then.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Morphy#section_1

Morphy had a bright flame and, like so many, burned for a short period of time. He was a prodigious, gifted individual but born with a silver spoon in his mouth. He was an odd character, who was fortunate enough to travel the world playing chess - challenge matches against the other top players in the world.

He gave up chess to take up the law but he lost interest and - for want of a better phrase - dossed about on his father's money until he died aged 47.

Why tell you about him? He played a game one night so interesting he stopped an opera.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_game_(chess)

The story would struggle to be more opulent. Enjoy (in your most decadent and fanciful attire)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on August 01, 2012, 08:24:00 PM
...

If you think a lot of theory has been written about poker, just have a look at the books on chess openings. Put it into context: starting from move one, White has 20 possible first moves (eight pawns that can move either one or two squares up, plus two knights which each have two possible destinations). To each of those 20 moves, Black has 20 possible responses. Already, there are 400 possible positions after move 1.

...

I used to work at the British Chess Federation, so I've had a bit of a look around the National Chess Library, there are a LOT of books on chess theory and history.

The total number in that library is 7000 books, I think most of them are history books but I reckon there's probably approaching a 1000 books they had just on opening theory. :D


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 01, 2012, 08:25:11 PM
Elsewhere, in modern-day Germany, Magnus Carlsen leads the Biel tournament by half a point, going in to the last round tomorrow. If he draws, he will only take second if there is a winner between Dutch superstar Danish Giri (a young man even next to Carlsen) and China's Wang Hao.

The penultimate round has just finished and Chessbase has reported the games.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8376

If these are accurate, have a look at the game Bacrot v Nakamura. Etienne Bacrot has been the top player in the world in my age group ever since I started playing chess. Luke McShane is the same age. Mentioning myself in the same breath as those guys is a bit of an insult tbh but it's my thread so what the heck.

EvilPie asked about silly mistakes. Have a look at Bacrot's thirtieth move. If this record is accurate and that is the move he played, it's an absolute shocker. After Nakamura took his rook, Bacrot can take the queen, but he loses his own then and the net result is he will lose a whole rook in that sequence.

A very simple tactic. It must have been an absolute mental block.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 01, 2012, 08:27:13 PM
...

If you think a lot of theory has been written about poker, just have a look at the books on chess openings. Put it into context: starting from move one, White has 20 possible first moves (eight pawns that can move either one or two squares up, plus two knights which each have two possible destinations). To each of those 20 moves, Black has 20 possible responses. Already, there are 400 possible positions after move 1.

...

I used to work at the British Chess Federation, so I've had a bit of a look around the National Chess Library, there are a LOT of books on chess theory and history.

The total number in that library is 7000 books, I think most of them are history books but I reckon there's probably approaching a 1000 books they had just on opening theory. :D

Thank goodness I haven't said anything unpleasant about the BCF/ECF then!

Yet.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on August 01, 2012, 08:40:59 PM
...

If you think a lot of theory has been written about poker, just have a look at the books on chess openings. Put it into context: starting from move one, White has 20 possible first moves (eight pawns that can move either one or two squares up, plus two knights which each have two possible destinations). To each of those 20 moves, Black has 20 possible responses. Already, there are 400 possible positions after move 1.

...

I used to work at the British Chess Federation, so I've had a bit of a look around the National Chess Library, there are a LOT of books on chess theory and history.

The total number in that library is 7000 books, I think most of them are history books but I reckon there's probably approaching a 1000 books they had just on opening theory. :D

Thank goodness I haven't said anything unpleasant about the BCF/ECF then!

Yet.

 ;D  lol I wouldn't worry about that - the office manager was psychotic and the leadership from the directors was largely incompetent, I left before everything got completely re-jigged so I don't know how much better it got after they re-organised things but it really wasn't that impressive when I was there.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 01, 2012, 08:50:43 PM
Yes I'm sure such matters may come up in our polite conversations on this thread!

Perhaps another day  ;)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 02, 2012, 10:08:56 PM
In Biel, the final round gave all the drama it promised. Magnus Carlsen couldn't get over the line against Etienne Bacrot and had to settle for a draw. He therefore needed the two players below him to do the same, as a winner between them would take the title.

The opening between Anish Giri and Wang Hao gave neither player any advantage but Giri made a fatal mistake, missing a clever combination by the Chinese player to give his opponent the win and the title.

Wang Hao was the third seed of the six on paper but held his own well, winning key games against the lower-ranked players. Carlsen had to settle for second, but in the knowledge that his rating will increase (again), edging ever closer to Garry Kasparov's record.

What you might find interesting about the result of the tournament is that Carlsen won 4 and drew 6 of his games, whereas Hao won 6, drew 1 and lost 3. So Carlsen actually got 7 out of 10 and Hao got 6.5 out of 10. What's more, Carlsen beat Hao as white and black.

It has become en vogue in the elite circles for everything but the biggest chess tournaments (World Championship, etc) to have a football-style points system of 3 for a win, 1 for a draw and 0 for a loss.

Every now and then through chess history, someone kicks up a fuss about there being too many draws, that it’s becoming boring and everyone’s frightened to lose. It was much, much worse 50 years ago, where almost everyone was from the USSR and there are any number of occasions where draws between Comrades resulted in a USSR winner.

Nevertheless, the sponsors speak in these matters and they can’t afford to allow boring (particularly short) games on too regular a basis, or no one will watch. Sadly, the outcome has been this silly nonsense of 3 points for a win, inviting fighting chess and, in some cases, more open games.

Wang Hao drew just once and was rewarded for his all-or-nothing approach by finishing above Carlsen, where he would have been runner-up under the conventional scoring system.

Thems be the rules. What do you make of them?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 03, 2012, 11:39:33 PM
Slightly closer to home, the final round of the British Championship resulted in a tie between top seed Gawain Jones and third seed Ste Gordon.

They will share first and second prize money between them (but for a nominal £50) and will play a tiebreak series of quick play games tomorrow morning.

http://britishchesschampionships.co.uk/news/play-off-in-the-british-championship/

Tomorrow from about 10:30am (not poker player o'clock, I grant you...) the title of British Champion 2012 will be decided. The link above should get you either to or close to the games, which will be pretty fast-paced and streamed live.

Neither has won the British Champs before. As Ste has played for my club in Birmingham and singularly one of the nicest chaps I've met, I have to funk for the underdog.

Won't be much in it.

Two games to start off with (roughly taking 45 mins each). If they are still level, there will be some much faster blitz games.

Enjoy if you're watching tomorrow


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: cambridgealex on August 05, 2012, 01:31:13 PM
Watching that documentary on Magnus Carlsen - incredible!

I can't get over that clip of him with his back turned to the 10 games reading out the moves - just unbelievable.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 05, 2012, 02:02:40 PM
It's just awesome to watch, isn't it?

Imagine playing an MTT blindfolded where players announce their bets and you have to keep track of their chip stacks!

Alekhine, the great Russian master of our great-grandfathers' generation, used to say he went by the voices as the opponent read out his move, which triggered the positions in his mind. From there, it was just the simple task of working out the best move. Easy then!

Meanwhile, the British Championship was won by the top seed and favourite, Gawain Jones, following a playoff with Steven Gordon.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: ACE2M on August 06, 2012, 12:06:37 PM
Started playing a bit of chess again on chess.com. I totally thrashed this 8 year old yesterday, was amazing.

Got completely pwned by everyone else i played though, i totally suck.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 06, 2012, 09:16:04 PM
Following on from this, if anyone plays a game online and wants me to have a look at it, I can't guarantee an overnight turnaround, but I'd happily offer some feedback/advice. I can assure you from having watched 7 year olds playing in junior comps and from having done some coaching in the past, there is no game you can show me that will offend!

Just give me an idea of what you want me to look at/advise on, as you would in the PHA thread, and I'll do my best to get back to you in a few days by PM or email.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 06, 2012, 09:55:26 PM
Following on from the debate on other threads about Rastafish and his ability to unsettle opponents over the poker tables, I got thinking about the tactics I've seen and heard about.

Digestive biscuits being munched, boiled sweet wrappers twizzled and pens clicked on and off. That was just last season against me in league matches!

At junior level, parents control their children's movements and there was a particularly memorable father who used to send his children in to each game 15 mins late just to put the opponent (again, a child) off their concentration.

At the top level, you will have seen Kasparov in the Carlsen clip. He's famous for his mind games, in truth.

How about hypnotism?

In the 1930s, Alekhine was King. He beat the seemingly unbeatable Capablanca to claim the world title in 1927 and with the exception of two years, held that title until 1946.

Alekhine, a bit like Kasparov, was very interested in the psychology element of chess and his contemporaries took this either as a joke/an irrelevance or they were affected by it.

I have just found a fascinating article on this very point and here it is.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8310

It covers a few anecdotes and then turns to some articles from and about Alekhine's rivals. The very thought that the great Bogljubov (not a Victorian magician, as much as that name sounds like he should be!) would be convinced that he was being hypnotised over the board is incredible.

A couple of the excerpts are in other languages (including a French story of Mikhail Tal playing six games against an amateur; three normal and three with the amateur hypnotised and convinced he was Paul Morphy - see earlier post about him - Tal was amazed at how much more aggressive and fluent the play was in the second set) but the whole thing is worth five minutes of your time.

Tony G's got nothing on chess players!

Imagine if Iker Casillas said he couldn't save penalties from Messi because he kept being hypnotised!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on August 06, 2012, 10:20:14 PM

Love this thread!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 08, 2012, 07:49:29 PM
A final - for the time being (probably) - series of notes about Alexander Alekhine.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=7555

It's a collection of interviews in various newspapers around the world. Bear in mind that this is a man who grew up in Russia at the turn of the Century and saw the revolution. He was not a communist, with his father a man of some considerable importance under Tzar Nicholas II.

He escaped to France and eventually became a French citizen.

A curious character, an epoque-defining chess player and a fascinating - if controversial - man.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 08, 2012, 09:13:34 PM
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aycFDkIAhnQ


And something less cerebral:

Magnus Carlsen playing a friendly game against a Norwegian junior player. She gets 9.5 minutes on her clock to make all her moves.

Magnus gets 30 seconds. Total. If he takes one second between her pressing her clock and him pressing his every move, he will have to beat her inside 30 moves.

It's a little on the grainy side so you might find the actual game hard to follow. But you can see just how the black pieces come forward to attack together.

What amuses me is how, when there is a distraction, Carlsen looks up to see what's going on. He has 30 seconds on his clock and he is cooler than Usain Bolt in the last 5 metres of a 100m heat.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on August 09, 2012, 06:11:50 AM
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aycFDkIAhnQ


And something less cerebral:

Magnus Carlsen playing a friendly game against a Norwegian junior player. She gets 9.5 minutes on her clock to make all her moves.

Magnus gets 30 seconds. Total. If he takes one second between her pressing her clock and him pressing his every move, he will have to beat her inside 30 moves.

It's a little on the grainy side so you might find the actual game hard to follow. But you can see just how the black pieces come forward to attack together.

What amuses me is how, when there is a distraction, Carlsen looks up to see what's going on. He has 30 seconds on his clock and he is cooler than Usain Bolt in the last 5 metres of a 100m heat.



It is actually a bit sad to watch that, in a way.  The little girl is dithering & not at all sure what to do, & Mr Hero knows EXACTLY what she will do, & EXACTLY what he will do long before she actually makes her move.

Painful to watch, in a way.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on August 09, 2012, 06:20:32 AM

I had a good read up on Alexander Alekhine after your two Posts about him.

Some man!

His Wiki page is a purler, & worth a read.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Alekhine


This is a great read, too......(excuse the cumbersome link)


http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=alexander+Alekhine+chess&view=detail&id=B8B8EB8C42DDBDF453DD0B5AF67F569BC4F26F6B&FORM=IDFRIR&adlt=strict



Here our hero plays Mr Romanovsky.


(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/tikay2/AlexanderAlekhine_PeterRomanovsky1909.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 09, 2012, 08:08:41 AM
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aycFDkIAhnQ


And something less cerebral:

Magnus Carlsen playing a friendly game against a Norwegian junior player. She gets 9.5 minutes on her clock to make all her moves.

Magnus gets 30 seconds. Total. If he takes one second between her pressing her clock and him pressing his every move, he will have to beat her inside 30 moves.

It's a little on the grainy side so you might find the actual game hard to follow. But you can see just how the black pieces come forward to attack together.

What amuses me is how, when there is a distraction, Carlsen looks up to see what's going on. He has 30 seconds on his clock and he is cooler than Usain Bolt in the last 5 metres of a 100m heat.



It is actually a bit sad to watch that, in a way.  The little girl is dithering & not at all sure what to do, & Mr Hero knows EXACTLY what she will do, & EXACTLY what he will do long before she actually makes her move.

Painful to watch, in a way.

Time handicapping for blitz games is pretty standard. The 9.5-0.5 is extreme but it's also worth saying that the opponent is not a complete novice.

I played a British Grandmaster about a year ago in a series of "fun" games for a couple of hours. Every time he won, he had to sacrifice time for the next game. We started at 5 v 5 but were soon at 5 v 2 and then 5 v 1. I managed to get one checkmate against him from 12 games but was winning heavily in 4 others, which was enormously frustrating.

Carlsen could give that GM a handicap and be favourite, such is the gap.

As for the girl, there is always a feeling of "I really wish I were better at this!" But it's the only way someone of her standard would get a winnable game against the World Number 1.

I can only say - and hopefully those who have played the game a bit (JonMW?) - it's less humiliating than it looks. It isn't, for example, analogous to playing Roger Federer where he has to play left handed.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 09, 2012, 09:59:58 AM
One thing to watch on this clip is how the girl hovers over the piece she wants to move for a few seconds, while she does a last scout around the board to check she hasn't missed anything immediate.

This isn't a novice thing; pretty much everyone but the very top does it. Watch Carlsen's eyes. He's drawn to where she's hovering and already his calculations have begun. Of course, he will have thought about the possible responses already but his reply can be so quick because he knows what is coming.

In poker, people will, when facing a bet, ask how much it is, count out the chips, count what they have left, ask the bettor whether they want a call, feign to throw the chips over the line but pull them back, mull, mull and mull some more...then raise.

If you hover over a piece, 19 times out of 20, that is the piece you are moving. I'm not aware that I have ever seen a player hover over a piece on one side of the board purely for deception.

On reflection, I might try it!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on August 09, 2012, 10:13:16 AM
One thing to watch on this clip is how the girl hovers over the piece she wants to move for a few seconds, while she does a last scout around the board to check she hasn't missed anything immediate.

This isn't a novice thing; pretty much everyone but the very top does it
. Watch Carlsen's eyes. He's drawn to where she's hovering and already his calculations have begun. Of course, he will have thought about the possible responses already but his reply can be so quick because he knows what is coming.

In poker, people will, when facing a bet, ask how much it is, count out the chips, count what they have left, ask the bettor whether they want a call, feign to throw the chips over the line but pull them back, mull, mull and mull some more...then raise.

If you hover over a piece, 19 times out of 20, that is the piece you are moving. I'm not aware that I have ever seen a player hover over a piece on one side of the board purely for deception.

On reflection, I might try it!

Ahh, my bad. That is EXACTLY what caught my eye, & I wrongly assumed that only a complete novice would do that. Seems an odd thing to do, but yes, Hero would get an advance read from that, thus speeding up his reaction time.

We see it in poker too - newbies tend to play with theier cards in an odd manner, simply because they do not know what to do. And that in itself is often a tell.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 10, 2012, 08:59:24 PM
At amateur levels, there are plenty of stories any chess player can tell you about people's attempts to put them off.

One of the silly ones you get is done in a situation where you make a sacrifice. The idea of a sacrifice is to lose a piece of yours but specifically because you have a tactic behind it. So, you want your opponent to take your bishop/pawn/queen and then you can deliver the hidden checkmate, for example.

The trick you get crafty juniors (or crafty men against juniors) pulling is looking really disappointed when they make the sacrificial move. Sometimes they will actually sigh or go "oh shucks" in the hope you go "oh he's left his queen in prise! I'll have that!" and then fall into the trap. It's a real novice thing but it nevertheless actually does happen!

The most extreme form of it happened to me when I was about 11. I played in a tournament in Derby in an open-aged comp, where the players were separated into 4 groups, based on ability/rating. So I happened to be playing a man in his fifties in this particular game.

We'd played about 15 moves each and I went off to the toilet while my opponent thought about his next move. As is the way - not everyone does this but most probably do on some level - I was thinking about the position while I spent my penny and had a plan to use my already active knights to mount an attack. I had worked out a variation of moves if he made a particular response and, as I walked back to the board, had a pretty good idea of what I was going to do next.

When I got to the board, I had a shock.

The knight - the one I was going to move and mount the attack with - had moved. But it was MY knight. And it hadn't moved (as my old maths teacher used to say) in an L-shape; it had moved just one square to the left.

I haven't seen this before or since. I asked the man whether the knight had moved and he assured me it hadn't. I asked if he could see on his score sheet (all players have to record the moves on paper) when the knight moved to that square. He showed me. "Can you see on mine?" I asked, thinking about doubting myself.

While he mused, I pointed out the path the Knight had taken - b1 -> d2 -> f1 -> g3 -> f5. Why was it now on e5?!

He simply went "Oh!" and did no more than move it back to f5 and press my clock.

I was completely taken aback. To this day, I am convinced that he moved it deliberately, expecting that I wouldn't notice. When I told others the sequence of event, skullduggery was the only conclusion. There had been no accidental knocking over of pieces - so said the people on the table next to me - and he had no need to touch my knight in playing his move.

I made sure I won that game and took enormous pleasure in doing so.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: mondatoo on August 10, 2012, 10:28:01 PM
Could Magnus beat Chris Rock though ? doubt it :P


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 10, 2012, 11:01:51 PM
Could Magnus beat Chris Rock though ? doubt it :P

Just looked it up in an old chess book. Turns out:

Chris Rock < Magnus Carlsen < Chuck Norris


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: millidonk on August 13, 2012, 01:31:24 PM
Move over Kapersky, MilliDonk has returned to the board after almost 2 decades out of the game.

A 3.5hr battle of the minds resulted in the opponent being forced to resign.

Cries of "misclick" could be heard from the stands but MilliCheck does not accept prisoners.

(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/Milligan84/NewPicture30.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 13, 2012, 01:35:12 PM
Fine work, sir.

Yes, Kaspersky must be quaking in his reboots.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 13, 2012, 09:37:06 PM
Nice easy starter for ten tonight: What was the influence of The Black Death on chess?

In telling stories of some of the great chess names, I’ve strayed away from going too heavy on the detail of their games and I’ll keep that theme for some of my posts. This is one of those, so if you find the stories boring (don’t worry, Tikay; I know you don’t!), do keep coming back, as there will remain a variety of chess posts on this thread!

Joseph Henry Blackburne was one of the most interesting characters of the game. Unlike many of the others I’ll post about (Alekhine, Morphy and Tal included), Blackburne was never regarded as being the best player in the world in his day. Nevertheless, he was a tough match for anyone and had a string of excellent tournament performances in his record. He’d have a few flags on his Hendon Mob.

Where Blackburne excelled was in beating the weaker players in tournaments. Don’t get me wrong; he was right up there in the top handful of players, but he would never be the World Number 1 or the World Champion. He was a brilliant tactician and a giant killer, capable of taking any scalp.

Blackburne was born in December 1841 to a Manchester family who travelled the nation preaching about the ills of alcohol and the virtues of temperance. It is believed that he learned to play chess at 18, which is positively ancient in chess terms. Two years later, he beat the world’s best player (Wilhelm Steinitz) in a strong tournament in London, although he did finish towards the bottom of the tournament in the end.

The overall Blackburne story is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Henry_Blackburne

What separates him from most are the stories about him. As with many people, you can never really know which ones are real, which are embellished and which are just plain made up.

What isn’t in doubt is that, despite being from such an abstemious family, Blackburne loved to drink. When I say he loved to drink, he LOVED to drink. I’ve never heard of anyone – Ozzy Osbourne, Oliver Reed, the Fast Show’s Rowley Birkin, QC – who has more whiskey-related stories about them.

Blackburne was so famous for his love of Scotch that he was often paid in Scotch for tournament appearances or simultaneous displays, rather than money like everyone else.  There is a story that, on his insistence, he received an advance of his fee for a tournament in 1895 in Hastings – a case of the finest. He polished that off during the first six games and, well, his standard of play dropped off somewhat after that…

A story not included in the wiki page is my favourite. Picture the scene: a posh, Victorian London club on Pall Mall. The sort of place you have to be invited in by a friend (usually with a peerage). Blackburne is playing an amateur over several whiskeys and any number of cigars. The crowds are raucous, their surnames double-barreled. I see it as being rather like the Drones Club that Bertie Wooster likes to frequent in the Jeeves novels.

Further ado-less, we turn to the game. Blackburne is in a frightful mess. He is playing a man whose name was never reported (known only as ‘Mr C’ - more likely because chess people aren’t interested unless you’re a chess player, rather than him being a spy) but it is understood he was no more than a novice player. A report of the game refers to the atmosphere “boiling over with excitement”, because our hero – now several stiff glasses in – was losing badly.

Blackburne was a resourceful fellow and losing badly didn’t mean lost. He picked up Mr C’s bishop and put it one square diagonally from his opponent’s king.

“Check, sir!”

Bewildered and, quite possibly, feeling slightly worse for wear himself, Mr C captured it.

Blackburne triumphantly declared, “You can’t take your own bishop!”

Mr C agreed with this completely logical statement, apologised and moved his king away, only to find Blackburne leaping from his chair, immediately checkmating the flummoxed Mr C to roars of hysterical laughter from the assembled crowd.

I’m not sure whether Blackburne got away with this in the end, but what a fantastic image it conjures of Victorian clubs and those who played chess in them.

Black Death? This was the name given to him by commentators of a tournament in Vienna in 1873. His full black beard probably helped!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 13, 2012, 09:39:54 PM
(http://www.quantumgambitz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Blackbourne001.jpg)

Joseph Henry Blackburne


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Longy on August 13, 2012, 09:45:38 PM
Cool story, more stories would be greatly appreciated.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 13, 2012, 09:46:53 PM
Move over Kapersky, MilliDonk has returned to the board after almost 2 decades out of the game.

A 3.5hr battle of the minds resulted in the opponent being forced to resign.

Cries of "misclick" could be heard from the stands but MilliCheck does not accept prisoners.

(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/Milligan84/NewPicture30.jpg)

I should just point out to observers that Mr Outrageous has just moved his queen to e1, only to find that Mr Milli-hero has lopped it straight off with his own queen. Quite a dramatic error. More than a mere oopsicle.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 13, 2012, 09:48:36 PM
Cool story, more stories would be greatly appreciated.

Excellent. Do check out the wiki page for more stories about him in the meantime  :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: cambridgealex on August 13, 2012, 10:29:31 PM
Move over Kapersky, MilliDonk has returned to the board after almost 2 decades out of the game.

A 3.5hr battle of the minds resulted in the opponent being forced to resign.

Cries of "misclick" could be heard from the stands but MilliCheck does not accept prisoners.

(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/Milligan84/NewPicture30.jpg)

I should just point out to observers that Mr Outrageous has just moved his queen to e1, only to find that Mr Milli-hero has lopped it straight off with his own queen. Quite a dramatic error. More than a mere oopsicle.


haha ty for translating, was seriously struggling. Must be how muggles feel when they read PHA!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 13, 2012, 10:45:50 PM
Got to be honest, extensive discussions on 3bet-ranges do make me quite sleepy...little ones I'm good with and I can hold a conversation intelligently enough but there's a limit  :P

There's been some chat about hEV in poker - if i can call it the happiness coefficient - on your thread, Alex. As with chess, you have to find the limit (if you will, the range) where you still find it enjoyable and make sure you stick to playing within it.

Funnily enough, I've never been a particularly big student of chess opening theory. I know a fair bit less than most players of my ability and I would certainly be a stronger player if I put more work into the hard learning. But I enjoy doing other things, particularly poker (and a bit of pool), and unless that stops, I don't see myself going too heavily into the books anytime soon. I do a bit to keep my eye in but my books at home are mostly just research tools.

That's my enjoyment limit at the moment. Some people love studying and know tons of openings inside out but can't play very well as soon as they get out of the book.

Funny bunch us chess players.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on August 13, 2012, 11:17:23 PM
Love that Blackburne tale, it reminds me of so many tales.

Too late tonight, but I'll comment further tomorrow on that, and your earlier tale about the bloke who cheated.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 14, 2012, 12:26:33 AM
A final Blackburne pic before I remember I have a bed (and work in the morning).


(http://www.endgame.nl/D1892.JPG)

Dresden 1892
Standing: Heyde, Schmid, Blackburne, Noa, Hoffer, von Scheve, Walbrodt, Zwanzig
Sitting: Loman, Schottländer, Winawer, Mason, Schallopp, von Bardeleben, Tarrasch, Mieses, Albin, Alapin


A club player will know about half these names and tbh that's not far off where I am! A few have openings and opening variations named after them (Winawer, Tarrasch and Albin) that are played regularly today, over a century on.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on August 14, 2012, 09:30:49 AM
At amateur levels, there are plenty of stories any chess player can tell you about people's attempts to put them off.

One of the silly ones you get is done in a situation where you make a sacrifice. The idea of a sacrifice is to lose a piece of yours but specifically because you have a tactic behind it. So, you want your opponent to take your bishop/pawn/queen and then you can deliver the hidden checkmate, for example.

The trick you get crafty juniors (or crafty men against juniors) pulling is looking really disappointed when they make the sacrificial move. Sometimes they will actually sigh or go "oh shucks" in the hope you go "oh he's left his queen in prise! I'll have that!" and then fall into the trap. It's a real novice thing but it nevertheless actually does happen!

The most extreme form of it happened to me when I was about 11. I played in a tournament in Derby in an open-aged comp, where the players were separated into 4 groups, based on ability/rating. So I happened to be playing a man in his fifties in this particular game.

We'd played about 15 moves each and I went off to the toilet while my opponent thought about his next move. As is the way - not everyone does this but most probably do on some level - I was thinking about the position while I spent my penny and had a plan to use my already active knights to mount an attack. I had worked out a variation of moves if he made a particular response and, as I walked back to the board, had a pretty good idea of what I was going to do next.

When I got to the board, I had a shock.

The knight - the one I was going to move and mount the attack with - had moved. But it was MY knight. And it hadn't moved (as my old maths teacher used to say) in an L-shape; it had moved just one square to the left.

I haven't seen this before or since. I asked the man whether the knight had moved and he assured me it hadn't. I asked if he could see on his score sheet (all players have to record the moves on paper) when the knight moved to that square. He showed me. "Can you see on mine?" I asked, thinking about doubting myself.

While he mused, I pointed out the path the Knight had taken - b1 -> d2 -> f1 -> g3 -> f5. Why was it now on e5?!

He simply went "Oh!" and did no more than move it back to f5 and press my clock.

I was completely taken aback. To this day, I am convinced that he moved it deliberately, expecting that I wouldn't notice. When I told others the sequence of event, skullduggery was the only conclusion. There had been no accidental knocking over of pieces - so said the people on the table next to me - and he had no need to touch my knight in playing his move.

I made sure I won that game and took enormous pleasure in doing so.

I have been musing on this story for days, it is filed away in my bulging "how can you explain these things?" file.

I mean, why would he do such a dumb thing? How could he NOT be sussed?

I played in a Golf Tourney once where a 5 handicapper passed himself off, or tried to, as a 16 handicapper, & duly ran away with the Tourney, wininng by an eye-popping 8 or 10 strokes, when these things are usually 8 way ties & countback. His playing companions - we were playing in groups of 4 - would have sussed the deal the very moment he teed off at the first hole, as the gulf between a 5 & a 16 is huge to the trained eye, if not mine.

He was duly disqualified, & banned from all courses in Notts & Derby for, I think, 5 years, & his recreational golf-life was in tatters.

His prize for winning the tournament? A pair of FootJoy golf shoes, valued at £70.

How can we ever understand such peculiar things?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on August 14, 2012, 09:43:21 AM

The Henry Blackburne tale - what a great story!

This part caught my eye especially....

".....Picture the scene: a posh, Victorian London club on Pall Mall. The sort of place you have to be invited in by a friend (usually with a peerage). Blackburne is playing an amateur over several whiskeys and any number of cigars. The crowds are raucous, their surnames double-barreled. I see it as being rather like the Drones Club that Bertie Wooster likes to frequent in the Jeeves novels....."

For some reason, it reminded me very much of a chap who lived around the same era, & moved in the same circles, one Robert Standish Sievier.

Robert owned & trained THE the greatest racehorse that ever drew breath, bar none, & without a shadow of doubt, being "Sceptre". And Mr Sievier was a right scoundrel. A brief synopsis of him is here....

http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/sievier-robert-standish-8425

There are some characters these days, but I fancy there used to be so many more. It is a trick of the mind, of course, but those olden-times scoundrels & rotters seem really rather loveable.

More Blackburne-type stories, please.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on August 14, 2012, 12:05:17 PM
Something for everyone, I hope.

Magnus Carlsen was on the US show 60 minutes a few months ago.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxBtrT_qZgI

He's quite something.

He's filmed at, amongst other places, the London Chess Classic, which I have been to watch for the last two years. It will be on in December, I believe in Kensington Olympia. Will post details nearer the date.

interesting film , blind chess is pretty standard for chess players , took Andrew Greet to local match few years ago & on way there he was texting moves to players he was coaching , nice see a IM turn out for a local club



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 14, 2012, 12:38:14 PM
The ability to play one game blind is one thing - I used to play people at school where they could see the board and I couldn't and someone as strong as Andrew Greet (an International Master - one below a Grandmaster) would have no difficulty at all tackling a position someone described to him or where the moves were read out.

Playing multiple games blind is a different kettle of fish and it is so easy to miss something subtle (like a clever combination or a check in the middle of a variation) that even players as strong as that would find it very difficult against five or more competent players. I don't think I'm speaking out of turn there.

The third level is where Alekhine excelled. It wasn't the fact that he played multiple blindfold games simultaneously; it was the quality of those games. He found incredible combinations that would be applauded in an ordinary 'over the board' match against a single opponent.

It is wonderful watching GMs analyse games with each other. Even if they don't speak the same language, pointing to squares and gesturing with a piece is often enough to draw appreciative nods from the other player. Meanwhile the people watching - called kibitzers in chess circles (is that an expression used in poker?) - look at each other for an explanation of what on earth they're on about.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: millidonk on August 14, 2012, 12:44:13 PM
Never heard Kibitzer in poker, although if it was said it would probably come from the likes of Eli Elezra, The Schulmans or even the great Stu Ungar himself.




Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on August 14, 2012, 12:58:12 PM
The ability to play one game blind is one thing - I used to play people at school where they could see the board and I couldn't and someone as strong as Andrew Greet (an International Master - one below a Grandmaster) would have no difficulty at all tackling a position someone described to him or where the moves were read out.

Playing multiple games blind is a different kettle of fish and it is so easy to miss something subtle (like a clever combination or a check in the middle of a variation) that even players as strong as that would find it very difficult against five or more competent players. I don't think I'm speaking out of turn there.

The third level is where Alekhine excelled. It wasn't the fact that he played multiple blindfold games simultaneously; it was the quality of those games. He found incredible combinations that would be applauded in an ordinary 'over the board' match against a single opponent.

It is wonderful watching GMs analyse games with each other. Even if they don't speak the same language, pointing to squares and gesturing with a piece is often enough to draw appreciative nods from the other player. Meanwhile the people watching - called kibitzers in chess circles (is that an expression used in poker?) - look at each other for an explanation of what on earth they're on about.


Ooh, a new word. I went googling, & found this....


1. a spectator at a card game who looks at the players' cards over their shoulders, especially one who gives unsolicited advice.
2. a giver of uninvited or unwanted advice.
3. a person who jokes, chitchats, or makes wisecracks, especially while others are trying to work or to discuss something seriously.


So you are right.

I shall use it somewhere. Today.

I am more used to the 2nd description, "a giver of unwanted advice".

I made a daft bet yesterday which deservedly lost, & then someone told me this morming "why did you do that, it was a daft bet?".

Kibitzers ftw.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 14, 2012, 01:00:39 PM
Railbirds is probably the name more commonly used in poker, on reflection.

They tend to hunt in packs, somehow knowing when a king is in trouble or when a player was under time pressure. A bit like when there's an all in and a call.

Kibitzers love asking you afterwards "Why didn't you play this instead?" A bit like "You should have jammed the turn. You just let him catch up cos he was always checking behind"

Yeah thanks for that!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on August 14, 2012, 01:03:05 PM
Railbirds is probably the name more commonly used in poker, on reflection.

They tend to hunt in packs, somehow knowing when a king is in trouble or when a player was under time pressure. A bit like when there's an all in and a call.

Kibitzers love asking you afterwards "Why didn't you play this instead?" A bit like "You should have jammed the turn. You just let him catch up cos he was always checking behind"

Yeah thanks for that!

Lol, spot on. Don't you just love those sorts?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on August 14, 2012, 01:18:34 PM
no idea how Magnus Carlsen plays bullet chess with clocks , find it hard on internet chess sites

about 9/10 years ago used to play 15 round tourney 1min each , they offered $80 for winner which got few GM's/IM's & FM's playing , was nice to play few knowing you gonna be beat , if we got 7/15 was pretty good but about 45 moves was about most I could play , the masters all used premoves which you could use to your advantage but still always lost lol

dont know if ICC still does it or any other site


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 14, 2012, 01:31:49 PM
no idea how Magnus Carlsen plays bullet chess with clocks , find it hard on internet chess sites

about 9/10 years ago used to play 15 round tourney 1min each , they offered $80 for winner which got few GM's/IM's & FM's playing , was nice to play few knowing you gonna be beat , if we got 7/15 was pretty good but about 45 moves was about most I could play , the masters all used premoves which you could use to your advantage but still always lost lol

dont know if ICC still does it or any other site

Nor do I in truth. Problem is so many strong chess players make their money playing poker now. Chess is a live pursuit for a lot of them, with expenses etc covered by the organisers.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: ACE2M on August 14, 2012, 01:51:06 PM
Not quite sure how you've got me watching post game analysis vids on youtube. Doesn't half expose how crap i am.  I do like to play the timed games but i prob need to play the long games so i can actually spend some time thinking a bit bigger.

Its funny when carlsen reviews a game that he can remember every little move and every potential move he thought about along the way, i wonder what percentage of his brilliance is down to having an incredible memory.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: AndrewT on August 14, 2012, 02:01:51 PM
Loved the tales of players trying to put each other off before the game.

During the Olympics Mark Foster told a story of a time when he was in a race against the great Russian swimmer Alexander Popov. As they were waiting to come out before the race, Popov turned to Foster and said something like 'you could be a great swimmer if you ever sort out that thing with your elbow'

'My elbow? What's wrong with it?'

'It's too high when you pull your arm through'

Foster then, of course, starts thinking about his swimming action and swims quite poorly and it was only years later than Popov admitted to Foster that he made up the elbow thing to disrupt Foster's action, as he knew he'd start thinking about it.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 14, 2012, 03:57:47 PM
There's a wonderfully instructive story on the other side of that, which I apologise if I've only half-remembered.

A tennis pro was struggling for form badly and had pretty much had his fill of the rotating elite tennis coaches. In desperation, he was put in touch with a coach from a business sector, completely unconnected with sport.

The coach realised quickly enough that it was a psychological block - think they call it The Yips in a lot of sports - and that the solution would essentially be focusing the player's mind on the job; the moment.

He decided to make the player watch the ball as it came over the net, but saying "watch the ball" would never work. Instead he asked a much cleverer question:

Tell me, which way is the ball spinning?

In chess, people make silly mistakes, where games are lost for an elementary misclick. The Russian master of half a century past, Alexander Kotov, wrote a book called Think Like a Grandmaster. In it, he suggested that players should list the possible moves and, excluding the ones that are obviously no good, you end up with 2-5 possibles. Then you know that you have definitely got the right move on your list.

After that, you work through the variations until one comes out on top. That's your move.

But wait! My old coach explained to me that a last look around is key before you put finger to piece. Just make sure there's nothing obvious your opponent can do and you're good to go.

Systematic approaches are often so effective


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on August 14, 2012, 06:47:12 PM
I vaguely had an idea to see if I was on the ECF database (v much as a dead link, but technically there to record my whole one tournament)

That made me think of looking up the proper name for an opening (Larsen's as it happens)

BUT that made me look at a related one, the Wiki entry to it had this explanation for one of it's names


Quote
The Sokolsky Opening (also known as the Orangutan or Polish Opening)
...
 Perhaps its most famous use came in the game Tartakower–Maróczy, New York City 1924. The name "Orangutan Opening" originates from that game: the players had visited the zoo the previous day, and Tartakower had consulted an orangutan there about what move he should open with the next day.

Which I thought was brilliant :D


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 15, 2012, 08:56:22 AM
I've never heard that story before. Fabulous!

The Orangutan opening starts with White moving the pawn in front of his queen's knight up two squares (1.b4).

Larsen's opening is the same pawn, but only moving it up one (1.b3).

A few openings are called Indian openings (the most famous being the King's Indian, which is still very popular). The reason for this is they involve moving a pawn up one square and, in the original version of chess, Chaturanga (he says hopefully spelling it correctly), which started in India, pawns could only move up one square at a time.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 15, 2012, 09:04:30 AM
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8050

Something more hands-on for you all.

The chessbase website posted a collection every month or so of a variety of tactical plays in Grand master games. Some are reasonably straightforward; some trickier.

It helps when you know that there is a killer punch, because no one tells you that when you are playing the game at the time!

Not all of them are checkmate; winning a bishop/knight or a queen for a rook, say, is enough.

Make sure you think of all the possible responses for the victim- OK it's checkmate if he moves left, but what if he moves right?

Have fun, anyway...

Solutions are linked at the bottom of the page when you are ready. Don't worry if it's not what you thought. Just see why.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on August 15, 2012, 10:19:06 AM
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8047

funny story from chessbase this year publish 2/4/2012 ish Rajlich: Busting the King's Gambit, this time for sure

Quote
Rajlich: Busting the King's Gambit, this time for sure
02.04.2012 – Fifty years ago Bobby Fischer published a famous article, "A Bust to the King's Gambit", in which he claimed to have refuted this formerly popular opening. Now chess programmer IM Vasik Rajlich has actually done it, with technical means. 3000 processor cores, running for over four months, exhaustively analysed all lines that follow after 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 and came to some extraordinary conclusions.

Interview with Vasik Rajlich

On March 31 the author of the Rybka program, Vasik Rajlich, and his family moved from Warsaw, Poland to a new appartment in Budapest, Hungary. The next day, in spite of the bustle of moving boxes and setting up phone and Internet connections Vas, kindly agreed to the following interview, which had been planned some months ago.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 15, 2012, 11:11:53 AM
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8047

funny story from chessbase this year publish 2/4/2012 ish Rajlich: Busting the King's Gambit, this time for sure

Quote
Rajlich: Busting the King's Gambit, this time for sure
02.04.2012 – Fifty years ago Bobby Fischer published a famous article, "A Bust to the King's Gambit", in which he claimed to have refuted this formerly popular opening. Now chess programmer IM Vasik Rajlich has actually done it, with technical means. 3000 processor cores, running for over four months, exhaustively analysed all lines that follow after 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 and came to some extraordinary conclusions.

Interview with Vasik Rajlich

On March 31 the author of the Rybka program, Vasik Rajlich, and his family moved from Warsaw, Poland to a new appartment in Budapest, Hungary. The next day, in spite of the bustle of moving boxes and setting up phone and Internet connections Vas, kindly agreed to the following interview, which had been planned some months ago.



Yes I remember this story. Shalln't spoil it.

Capablanca once claimed he had solved chess; that he had taken it as far as it could be taken. He lost the world title to Alekhine shortly afterwards.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on August 15, 2012, 11:13:06 AM
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8050

Something more hands-on for you all.

The chessbase website posted a collection every month or so of a variety of tactical plays in Grand master games. Some are reasonably straightforward; some trickier.

It helps when you know that there is a killer punch, because no one tells you that when you are playing the game at the time!

Not all of them are checkmate; winning a bishop/knight or a queen for a rook, say, is enough.

Make sure you think of all the possible responses for the victim- OK it's checkmate if he moves left, but what if he moves right?

Have fun, anyway...

Solutions are linked at the bottom of the page when you are ready. Don't worry if it's not what you thought. Just see why.

So the first one was more to do with a mistake from black (Qe8) than an awesome move by white?

Putting your queen on the same rank as your king seems to be a potentially dangerous thing to do and I'd assume you need to look very carefully for traps like this before you do so?

I would've thought this one was more interesting to figure out what black could do differently? For example Bxe5 or Pxe5 (sorry if these are the wrong way of saying things).

Before Qe8 is this a winning position for either colour?



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 15, 2012, 11:27:16 AM
All the problems arise because the other player has done something to allow it, either by making a move that opens the opportunity or by playing something else entirely and accidentally allowing the trick.

Black looks OK at first sight if he doesn't play Qe8 because he has equal material. The problem is that silly rook of his and the knight stuck on the back rank. White has that lovely square of g6 with his knight looking menacingly at it. Combine that with the bishop on e5 and the tactical threats such as the one played in the game and White is better here.

As for your suggested moves, assume white to be a strong player. He would have spotted that the bishop on e5 is attacked but he has allowed it still to be takeable, which suggests he has a plan up his sleeve. That f8 square looks delicious...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on August 15, 2012, 11:46:55 AM
Prepared to be shot down here but would Nb6 be a decent move for black?

It offers protection of that back rank by the rook and also obviously frees the rook up.

It also threatens Nc4 covering a3 and e5

Should black be looking to trade off and force a draw in this position if possible?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 15, 2012, 12:28:42 PM
Let's have a look at Nb6...

Before we do anything, your reason for moving the knight is twofold: to develop the piece generally and to threaten Nc4, forking the queen and bishop.

The tactical threat is a nice idea, but bear in mind that white gets a move first, so he neeonlg move his queen to prevent the fork. Nevertheless, c4 is a good square for the knight so we shouldn't let the tactical bit put us off; positionally, it looks good.

What about developing? I've explained that the rook and knight are stuck in that corner making a mess of Black's drawing chances, so moving the knight solves that problem. But the knight is doing two things for Black at the moment: defending the a7 and d6 pawns.

As soon as you move that knight, the white Queen will munch that d6 pawn, which looks as delicious as a pie on a shelf from a Disney cartoon.

It gets worse: play 1...Nb6 2.Qxd6. The white queen is then threatening the f8 square (the rook is now covering it but we are attacking it twice now) and the pawn two in front of the King on h6. The black bishop is still pinned so it isn't defending the pawn.

Nb6 highlights the trouble Black is in. At first sight, it's not too bad, but as you try to think of moves, you realise you're making the position worse.

This is one of the most frustrating parts of chess: when you think you're fine until you realise it's too late!

Does that help?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on August 15, 2012, 12:43:44 PM
Definitely. Much appreciated.

So what would your move be as black?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 15, 2012, 01:02:38 PM
It's pretty horrible tbh. Maybe Kh7. If the bishop checks, the king can come back and the white took is attacked by the black queen.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on August 15, 2012, 02:11:12 PM
It's pretty horrible tbh. Maybe Kh7. If the bishop checks, the king can come back and the white took is attacked by the black queen.

So how much of a lower standard player would you need to be up against to turn black in to a winning position?

If I was playing as white (rating 1243 on shredder over 30 games) would you expect to be able to turn this around against me?



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 15, 2012, 04:57:17 PM
At the moment, it's a little out of my hands, as anyone could play the correct tactical moves, whether by accident or design.

If you had no idea what you were doing and didn't find the right ideas, I would develop my knight and rook, stop the immediate tactical threats and probably avoid swaps until I had a better position or some extra material.

That would do it.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on August 15, 2012, 05:55:57 PM
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8050

Something more hands-on for you all.

The chessbase website posted a collection every month or so of a variety of tactical plays in Grand master games. Some are reasonably straightforward; some trickier.

It helps when you know that there is a killer punch, because no one tells you that when you are playing the game at the time!

Not all of them are checkmate; winning a bishop/knight or a queen for a rook, say, is enough.

Make sure you think of all the possible responses for the victim- OK it's checkmate if he moves left, but what if he moves right?

Have fun, anyway...

Solutions are linked at the bottom of the page when you are ready. Don't worry if it's not what you thought. Just see why.

second one dont get , played through it without looking at solution & found line but Be6 holds it , after BxB..Re8 forces white to castle & black wins piece back


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 15, 2012, 07:26:07 PM
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8050

Something more hands-on for you all.

The chessbase website posted a collection every month or so of a variety of tactical plays in Grand master games. Some are reasonably straightforward; some trickier.

It helps when you know that there is a killer punch, because no one tells you that when you are playing the game at the time!

Not all of them are checkmate; winning a bishop/knight or a queen for a rook, say, is enough.

Make sure you think of all the possible responses for the victim- OK it's checkmate if he moves left, but what if he moves right?

Have fun, anyway...

Solutions are linked at the bottom of the page when you are ready. Don't worry if it's not what you thought. Just see why.

second one dont get , played through it without looking at solution & found line but Be6 holds it , after BxB..Re8 forces white to castle & black wins piece back

Just to explain the notation, "x" denotes the capture of a piece, so BxB means bishop takes bishop and Nxe5 means knight takes whatever is on e5 (usually a pawn unless otherwise stated).

So, curnow, your idea is 1. Nxe5  Be6. The idea being that the knight attacking the black queen cannot move because the white queen is also then exposed by the bishop and the bishop on c4 is then under threat.

What is white to do about this?

We can't take the bishop on e6 because black recaptures with his queen and our knight is pinned, else we are in check. That's out.

Leaving the knight gives us a problem, too, because the bishop on c4 (which we now know can't exchange on e6) can't really go anywhere and keep the pressure on. Let me explain, this position is highly charged: lots of bits pointing at other bits; lots of combinations and no time for dilly-dallying.

Here's our solution (I think :) ). Let's take the black queen. White then takes ours with his bishop so we have a white knight on g6 and a black bishop on g3.

White to move. We have a bishop on c4 under attack and a knight on g6 under attack. We can take either the bishop on g3 or the took on h8 though. Lots of options.

Take the rook and there is a little problem after black takes our c4 bishop: the knight is trapped.

Take the bishop on g3 and now black can't recapture the knight because h7xN is followed by RxR! The result is that Black has a rook attacked by the knight and a bishop attacked on e6. Although the knight would still be stuck on h8 if he were allowed to take the rook, our rook on h1 can take the h7 pawn and the knight will escape.

So my answer is 1.Nxe5 Be6 2.NxQ BxQ 3.h2xB and I think we are good.

Haven't checked it on a computer so by all means tell me if I'm wrong!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on August 15, 2012, 07:43:43 PM
second game
1 Nxe5..Nxe5
2. Qxe5.. anything apart from Kf8 loses
3 Qe3 protecting the bishop & here Be6
4 BxB..Re8
5 0-0..RxB white has a small advantage with Rook on h8 but wont take long to get that rook active + double c pawns

if 1 Nxe5..Be6 2 RxB & knight still attacking the queen


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 15, 2012, 08:03:40 PM
second game
1 Nxe5..Nxe5
2. Qxe5.. anything apart from Kf8 loses
3 Qe3 protecting the bishop & here Be6
4 BxB..Re8
5 0-0..RxB white has a small advantage with Rook on h8 but wont take long to get that rook active + double c pawns

if 1 Nxe5..Be6 2 RxB & knight still attacking the queen

Ooh that is fun! I'll have a look and get back to you.

You obviously know what you're doing. Do I know you?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 15, 2012, 08:29:08 PM
Some of these puzzles are there really to make you see the combination, rather than necessarily a forced win.

You, of course, have done that.

This is the problem, I suppose, with using real games; a setter can design a perfect position where that's not what often happens over the board.

My sharpness on these isn't what it was a couple of years back so some of them take me a while before they click. I do follow what you're saying about the position in the second example.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on August 15, 2012, 11:53:00 PM



lots of bits pointing at other bits

If only all chess advice were so succinctly described.

At last, I understand Chess theory.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: moonandback on August 16, 2012, 01:22:42 PM
Love this thread been playing chess for 9 months or so now, still pretty bad but i enjoy playing the 10min blitz games on chess.com been experimenting with the scandinavian defense quite a lot lately quite proud of the game below after making a blunder on move 13 I fought back for a nice win. feel free to flame away!

http://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=345643908 (http://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=345643908)



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 16, 2012, 02:02:06 PM
Love this thread been playing chess for 9 months or so now, still pretty bad but i enjoy playing the 10min blitz games on chess.com been experimenting with the scandinavian defense quite a lot lately quite proud of the game below after making a blunder on move 13 I fought back for a nice win. feel free to flame away!

http://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=345643908 (http://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=345643908)



First impression is you finished him off nicely: got the bishop pair working together (very often an effective tool) and a couple of neat tactics, like Re8 to pin the queen.

I'd look a little at the opening. You get your pieces out well but you could probably improve on playing f6 and recapturing with your knight. The king's pawn is left a little backward otherwise and although it might not matter when you play, you need to keep away from leaving little holes in the position. You have the right idea about breaking down the centre but you could also do that by looking for c5 (Nimzowich said attack the base of the chain [of pawns]) and develop your pieces with e6 instead.

What you did worked out fine so well done.

I really like how quickly you developed your pieces.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: millidonk on August 16, 2012, 02:46:26 PM
Love this thread been playing chess for 9 months or so now, still pretty bad but i enjoy playing the 10min blitz games on chess.com been experimenting with the scandinavian defense quite a lot lately quite proud of the game below after making a blunder on move 13 I fought back for a nice win. feel free to flame away!

http://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=345643908 (http://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=345643908)



I must state I am a massive amateur and have just been getting back into chess this week but his move 24. Rfe1 can't be anything but terrible can it? Surely bring the other rook across to either attack the bishop or protect the king.

I didn't even realise you could post the links to the games. Here is my fewest move win so far: http://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=345571652

Can't wait til I have actually learned proper openings and stuff. At the minute I can only play counteractive chess


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 16, 2012, 03:42:17 PM
Tbf it is probably too late anyway for White. Those bishops are too strong, covering too much ground against the rooks that haven't really got out of bed.

If he plays Rd1 instead, still the same queen move, because he's threatening checkmate on h2. If Rf3, Be4 forces the took to move again. If he moves right to g3, the bishop lops it off. If he moves left, we have the same queen move. If he moves up or down on the f file, black has a clever tactic which I'll let you have a look at.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 16, 2012, 03:51:48 PM
As Teddy KGB would say, Millidonk, "Very aggreee-essive"

Might want not to throw all and, as it were, sundry at your opponent that early with h4 and g4. A stronger opponent might make you look a bit silly with better defence and opening the centre to expose your king.

Mr Outrageous was minding his own business, looking for a nice, quiet game. He played simple, developing moves, and...completely ignored what you were doing.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on August 16, 2012, 04:52:01 PM
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z230/curnow_01/chessproblem3.png)

white to play , & get result  

nice problem from game I played several years ago , back then could put it into fritz & would not find right move , tried this today in fritz 12 & found it but took bit of time  


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 16, 2012, 04:59:34 PM
Is it to win or just to avoid defeat?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on August 16, 2012, 05:32:23 PM
Is it to win or just to avoid defeat?

 stalemateis about only option

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bg5 Bg7 4.Nbd2 O-O 5.e3 d5 6.Bd3 h6 7.Bh4 c6 8.O-O Nbd7 9.c4 Re8 10.c5 e5 11.dxe5 Nxe5 12.Nxe5 Rxe5 13.Nf3  Bg4!
14.Qc2 Qe7 15.b4 g5 16.Bg3 Ne4! 17.Rad1 Nxg3 18.hxg3 Bg4 19.Rde1 a5 20.a3 20 b5 axb4 21.axb4 Ra3
22.Rb1 Rea8 23.Nd4 Bxd4 24.exd4 Qf6 25.f3 Qxd4  26 Kh2 Qxd3 27.Qxd3 Rxd3 28.fxg4 Rxg3
29.Rf6 29 Rbe1 Ra2 30.Rxh6 Raxg2
31.b5 Rxg4 32.bxc6 bxc6 33. Rc8 Kg7

blacks move 31 was the problem , white has stalemate forced afterwards


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 16, 2012, 06:38:02 PM
Is it to win or just to avoid defeat?

 stalemateis about only option

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bg5 Bg7 4.Nbd2 O-O 5.e3 d5 6.Bd3 h6 7.Bh4 c6 8.O-O Nbd7 9.c4 Re8 10.c5 e5 11.dxe5 Nxe5 12.Nxe5 Rxe5 13.Nf3  Bg4!
14.Qc2 Qe7 15.b4 g5 16.Bg3 Ne4! 17.Rad1 Nxg3 18.hxg3 Bg4 19.Rde1 a5 20.a3 20 b5 axb4 21.axb4 Ra3
22.Rb1 Rea8 23.Nd4 Bxd4 24.exd4 Qf6 25.f3 Qxd4  26 Kh2 Qxd3 27.Qxd3 Rxd3 28.fxg4 Rxg3
29.Rf6 29 Rbe1 Ra2 30.Rxh6 Raxg2
31.b5 Rxg4 32.bxc6 bxc6 33. Rc8 Kg7

blacks move 31 was the problem , white has stalemate forced afterwards

That is what I thought so OK. It's a nice, instructive problem. Muchos likeos.

How's everybody doing on this, then?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on August 16, 2012, 06:46:00 PM
Is it to win or just to avoid defeat?

 stalemateis about only option

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bg5 Bg7 4.Nbd2 O-O 5.e3 d5 6.Bd3 h6 7.Bh4 c6 8.O-O Nbd7 9.c4 Re8 10.c5 e5 11.dxe5 Nxe5 12.Nxe5 Rxe5 13.Nf3  Bg4!
14.Qc2 Qe7 15.b4 g5 16.Bg3 Ne4! 17.Rad1 Nxg3 18.hxg3 Bg4 19.Rde1 a5 20.a3 20 b5 axb4 21.axb4 Ra3
22.Rb1 Rea8 23.Nd4 Bxd4 24.exd4 Qf6 25.f3 Qxd4  26 Kh2 Qxd3 27.Qxd3 Rxd3 28.fxg4 Rxg3
29.Rf6 29 Rbe1 Ra2 30.Rxh6 Raxg2
31.b5 Rxg4 32.bxc6 bxc6 33. Rc8 Kg7

blacks move 31 was the problem , white has stalemate forced afterwards

That is what I thought so OK. It's a nice, instructive problem. Muchos likeos.

How's everybody doing on this, then?

I got in to a similar situation against shredder last night but he had 4 pawns to my 3.

My king was pinned on the back rank and for the life of me I couldn't figure a way out. My use of rooks was very poor so I need to improve that. I kept repeating the position several times but shredder was too good for me.

I'll see if I can dig it out and let you guys figure out a way out for me.

In that situation is being 1 pawn down usually terminal?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 17, 2012, 01:02:59 PM
In endgames, the most important factor is often how active your pieces are. A strong rook and a centralised king versus a rook stuck in the corner and a passive king can often be decisive, even if the more active side is a pawn or two down.

Hard to generalise and there are always tactics involved but strong players won't allow themselves to get into positions where their pieces are passive. They know the jig is up and would rather sacrifice a pawn for a fighting chance.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 17, 2012, 01:06:19 PM
Just came across this little gem: an article about a YouTube clip showing Mikhail Tal giving a blindfold simultaneous display.

I haven't linked the clip itself because it's in Russian. However, the article gives you a transcript and explains what's going on, so you can watch it at the same time.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5715

Would encourage you to do so. Marvellous fun.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: millidonk on August 17, 2012, 05:24:11 PM
Reckon if the world's cameras weren't there this wouldn't have gone down as smoothely as it did.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19300149 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19300149)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 17, 2012, 05:35:05 PM
Reckon if the world's cameras weren't there this wouldn't have gone down as smoothely as it did.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19300149 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19300149)

Never been one to shy away from controversy, Mr K. You might not have gathered this, but he's not the hardiest supporter of the Putin administration...

You've probably seen - actually didn't you post? - the infamous interrupted speech he gave against the government. The one with the flying intruder? Yes, well there is little love lost between them.

It's a very odd situation. I wonder whether his worldwide fame and international popularity make him hard to touch by the Russian government. India and China love their chess, too.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: AndrewT on August 17, 2012, 05:46:46 PM
OK, I've got Shredder on my iPad now and can see me losing many hours to it - it didn't take long before I got the 'That move was so shit do you want to take it back' message...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 17, 2012, 06:19:28 PM
OK, I've got Shredder on my iPad now and can see me losing many hours to it - it didn't take long before I got the 'That move was so shit do you want to take it back' message...

Do what all poker players do: call it a "misclick"

The Android version allows you to alter the playing strength of the engine, which you might prefer to do if you want a competitive game. I imagine the IPad version does the same


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: AndrewT on August 17, 2012, 06:23:26 PM
Yeah, it does and that's definitely the plan.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 18, 2012, 03:24:13 PM
Fun for the weekend, methinks.

Tal was born in Riga in 1932. Forty years later, from the same city, there came Alexei Shirov.

If you want to compare chess playing styles to poker, Shirov would be something near Isildur1. He is probably the most aggressive player that elite chess has seen. Certainly in an era where there is so much assumed knowledge about openings, where computer research is so prevalent and where players are more comfortable in complicated positions.

Shirov rose through the ranks as a young man and got as high as World Number 4. He should have played Garry Kasparov in 2000 for the World Championship, but there were issues over funding that could not be resolved and the man he defeated to earn the right, Vladimir Kramnik, played Kasparov instead.

Don't try this at home but here's a game he played around the time he became a Grand master in 1990. Just incredible confidence in his ability to calculate.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54I3uOA1mI4


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 18, 2012, 03:28:37 PM
Here is Mr Shirov:

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2008/morelia/shirov04.jpg)

Here is his wiki:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Shirov


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: cambridgealex on August 18, 2012, 04:33:47 PM
Fun for the weekend, methinks.

Tal was born in Riga in 1932. Forty years later, from the same city, there came Alexei Shirov.

If you want to compare chess playing styles to poker, Shirov would be something near Isildur1. He is probably the most aggressive player that elite chess has seen. Certainly in an era where there is so much assumed knowledge about openings, where computer research is so prevalent and where players are more comfortable in complicated positions.

Shirov rose through the ranks as a young man and got as high as World Number 4. He should have played Garry Kasparov in 2000 for the World Championship, but there were issues over funding that could not be resolved and the man he defeated to earn the right, Vladimir Kramnik, played Kasparov instead.

Don't try this at home but here's a game he played around the time he became a Grand master in 1990. Just incredible confidence in his ability to calculate.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54I3uOA1mI4

lol lagtards.

First video of its kind I've watched, really enjoyed it thanks Tal.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: cambridgealex on August 18, 2012, 04:41:24 PM
(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc416/cambridgealex/chessspot.png)

I don't understand why he says with regards to the knights pressure on the c7 square that "forking the rook and king would not be to white's advantage right now, he really needs to go for broke and force the win because he's so far behind in material".

Reply as if you were speaking to a 5 year old please :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 18, 2012, 05:20:01 PM
Very approximately, you can make more sense of exchanges by attaching values to the pieces:

Pawn = 1pt
Bishop = 3
Knight = 3
Rook = 5
Queen = 9

(We don't include the king because if that goes you're dead!)

So at the critical stage of Alex's question, white has a queen, two rooks, a bishop, a knight and five pawns.

Black has a queen, two rooks, two bishops, two knights and five pawns.

Black has an extra bishop and knight.

All winning a rook would do is get him back to parity (including the pawn at c7) in mathematical terms. White is looking for the win here though.

I said the values were very approximate and here is why: however powerful a rook is in theory, if it is stuck in the corner with no prospect of release, is it really better in the short term than a dominant knight? If the material is close and there's not much of an immediate winning threat, you'd take the extra material of a took for a knight every day of the week.

Here though, Shirov realises he's so far behind in material that simply taking pieces to get level isn't going to win him the game. That would be what you do as white if you think the attack hasn't worked and you need to regroup.

Any help?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on August 18, 2012, 06:56:09 PM
Fun for the weekend, methinks.

Tal was born in Riga in 1932. Forty years later, from the same city, there came Alexei Shirov.

If you want to compare chess playing styles to poker, Shirov would be something near Isildur1. He is probably the most aggressive player that elite chess has seen. Certainly in an era where there is so much assumed knowledge about openings, where computer research is so prevalent and where players are more comfortable in complicated positions.

Shirov rose through the ranks as a young man and got as high as World Number 4. He should have played Garry Kasparov in 2000 for the World Championship, but there were issues over funding that could not be resolved and the man he defeated to earn the right, Vladimir Kramnik, played Kasparov instead.

Don't try this at home but here's a game he played around the time he became a Grand master in 1990. Just incredible confidence in his ability to calculate.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54I3uOA1mI4

Absolutely love that!!

Thanks for the link Tal.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: cambridgealex on August 18, 2012, 07:54:02 PM
Great help thanks. I'm going to try that approach against my Dad see how he copes!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 18, 2012, 08:15:47 PM
By all means be aggressive, but get your pieces out first. Attacking is way easier when you have more ammo.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 19, 2012, 07:57:26 PM
A Tal game, this Sunday evening. Treat yourself!

In 1959 the best players in the World convened in Yugoslavia to play in the Candidates Tournament, the winner of which would go on to play Botvinnik the following year for the World Championship.

Among the Russians and East Europeans there was a young whipper snapper from across the pond. A 16 year old upstart named Robert James Fischer had qualified for the tournament and was ready to take on the big fish.

He would become one of the most famous names that that there will ever be, but this wasn't his time to take the world by storm.

Fischer was a truly gifted positional player (more on this another time, but essentially he had a sixth sense for where best to put his pieces) and in Tal there sat across the board from him a player on the other end of the scale: a tactical genius, who saw combinations and sacrifices no else could.

Tal beat Fischer all four times they played in this tournament and this particular one won a prize in the tournament for its brilliance.

In contrast to the Shirov game, Tal's style was to play normal openings - the same as the other players - and to play imaginatively from there.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1044107

Enjoy.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Stevie B on August 21, 2012, 05:35:03 AM
Great thread.
 
Got so many questions, re-written this a dozen times already, I'll start with;
What advice would you give to some-one thinking of going to their local chess club for the first time.
Ty.

p.s. I play on chess.com too if anyone wants a friendly game.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on August 21, 2012, 07:24:46 AM
Great thread.
  
Got so many questions, re-written this a dozen times already, I'll start with;
What advice would you give to some-one thinking of going to their local chess club for the first time.
Ty.

p.s. I play on chess.com too if anyone wants a friendly game.

any chess club would welcome new members of any standard . they will help you improve a lot
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/?page_id=19473

they got a clubs link but not all them are there , like mine but that is for the County Associations which will give links to local clubs

btw I have run a small chess club for over 10 years & getting new members is not easy for any club

edit : to add Scottish & Welsh chess links
http://www.chessscotland.com/
http://www.welshchessunion.org.uk/


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 21, 2012, 08:03:30 AM
Great thread.
 
Got so many questions, re-written this a dozen times already, I'll start with;
What advice would you give to some-one thinking of going to their local chess club for the first time.
Ty.

p.s. I play on chess.com too if anyone wants a friendly game.

any chess club would welcome new members of any standard . they will help you improve a lot
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/?page_id=19473

they got a clubs link but not all them are there , like mine but that is for the County Associations which will give links to local clubs

btw I have run a small chess club for over 10 years & getting new members is not easy for any club

Absolutely this.

Find your local league - there is one - then find a team close enough to you, give them a call/email and pop in one night for a few friendlies.

Clubs range from a dozen to a hundred players, from Grandmasters to people who are just starting out. All of them would be delighted to welcome an interested player.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: ACE2M on August 21, 2012, 01:14:03 PM
After watching the Shirkov stuff i had 3 check mates in a row on 30 min games last night against higher rated players than me.
The joy of pinning the oposition pieces down is great.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 21, 2012, 05:53:29 PM
Aggressive play is definitely a good idea, but it's also important to recognise when to defend; when the other guy's attack is better and you need to retreat; when your attack isn't working and you need to regroup.

Different players have different styles but all the top players will attack if given a chance. Just as, in a marginal spot, Tom Dwan finds a raise where Phil Ivey calls, different elite players take different lines of attack in chess.

Shirov and Tal are extreme examples - Nakamura is another - of tactical players who will use a blunderbuss over a pistol. Their attacks are viscous, thundering through the opposing blockade.

Carlsen is much quieter and so is Kramnik. Fischer, Rubenstein and Petrosian are famous names past who played more positionally, squeezing the life out of the opponent's position like a boa constrictor. I'll discuss this in a bit more depth another time and show some instructive games.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Stevie B on August 21, 2012, 06:07:25 PM
Thanks for the replies. My local club is literally 5 mins from my house and they recently had an IM play 14 games (he won 12, 2 drawn) and also had a strategy talk with a GM so thats quite impressive, definately going to go. I've never played live before(against a proper chess player) only online.

  The Shirov vid is excellent. His opponent must have been thinking "wtf is this donkey doing, Im gonna crush him" or something like that.lol.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 21, 2012, 09:46:19 PM
Thanks for the replies. My local club is literally 5 mins from my house and they recently had an IM play 14 games (he won 12, 2 drawn) and also had a strategy talk with a GM so thats quite impressive, definately going to go. I've never played live before(against a proper chess player) only online.

  The Shirov vid is excellent. His opponent must have been thinking "wtf is this donkey doing, Im gonna crush him" or something like that.lol.

Sounds excellent. A club that gets simultaneous displays on during what is essentially the "off season" is likely an excellent one to join, as it will have enthusiastic players.

Chess season roughly mirrors the football season BTW: August-May. No idea why either!

The Shirov game was fun because of its ferocity. In 1990, he was already a well-known player so it's more likely his opponent (himself a strong player) thought "crumbs! It's Shirov!"

At any level, when you are due to play someone who you know plays unusual openings or is flamboyantly aggressive in style, it can really put you on the back foot before you start. You can start to assume they have seen further than you when they play an attacking move you hadn't expected, so you won't take a pawn on offer because he must have a trick up his sleeve you haven't seen.

I vary my style a bit but I love being aggressive - as you will have inevitably picked up already from the whole being called Tal thing! I played a game a couple of years back against someone who knew I like to attack. I offered a pawn to open the position up for an attack, although I couldn't completely work out over the board whether it was sound. I played it anyway and my opponent effectively took my word for it, not taking the pawn. The result was that I got a huge attack, much greater than had he taken the pawn, and won convincingly.

Reputation can be important. A player at my club describes my style as "swashbuckling", which I love, however overly-generous he is.

By the way, the trick for beating aggressive, tactical players is the same for beating attacking football teams: you wait for them to overstretch, then you catch them on the counter. They inevitably leave space behind and the position can be opened up to expose the misplaced pieces.

I don't play enough these days so, when I do, I make mistakes and get caught when I attack. Sometimes, of course, it works and I look like a hero :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 22, 2012, 06:13:41 PM
Positional play is a different kettle of fish entirely, when compared to the Lord Flashheart from Blackadder, Brian Blessed in full voice stuff we see with the tactical style of chess.

Bobby Fischer was capable of dazzling tactics - this another time, including "the game of the century" - but he was a masterful and naturally gifted positional player.

This is harder to teach because it is less obvious to most players why moving a piece to one square is good and another is bad, if there's nothing to take it. Some people are blessed with this side of the game, but the majority have to learn it.

Let me give you an example, where it isn't necessarily easy to see why Black is doing better than White.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1044434

The opening is pretty standard, although I haven't seen that many Amsterdam Variations of the Sicilian Defence for a while (these things go in and out of fashion). Play through it in your own time if you like, but the bit I'm interested in today is from white's 28th move. Here we have a position where the material is equal, so it's a draw, right? If you were playing someone better than you, would you still fancy your chances of drawing it? Why might you lose? It isn't just a question of tactics; the other chap might get his pieces into a better position, with them working together better than yours.

Immediately, we see that White has three pawns - the same as Black - but they are more spread out. Black's are connected, which means they are easier to defend and easier to creep forward. Remember that the bishop can only cover 32 of the squares on the board, so, if White wants to move a pawn to a black square, it may need to be defended by the king or rook, whereas Black can defend it with another pawn. Any advantage in an endgame like this is made harder to capitalise when the opponent has an active rook - the rook covers ground quickly and makes progress much more difficult.

Watch what Black does from here: he makes sure White can't get the pawns too far forward, swaps the rooks off, gets the king into the centre, puts his pawns on black squares (harder to attack and more space for your own bishop), stops the White king from getting to the black pawns, wins one of the remaining pawns and, as White resigns, Black was just about to pick up the second pawn and win with the two pawn advantage.

You know in poker sometimes when you play heads up and the other chap just keeps getting slightly further ahead of you? Nothing dramatic, just little edges - an extra fold pre, more precise bet sizes, more aggressive button play - those little nuances that make him a favourite against you, all other things being equal? That's what happened, here. 


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: millidonk on August 23, 2012, 03:49:12 PM
Picture the scene;

The office is finally empty, I login to chess.com to see if I can put an end to this horrid losing streak. I make my first move, the phone rings... stay calm, I answer it and have a conversation whilst trying to concentrate on the game... all good, I deal with the issue and get back to the board... the doorbell goes, seriously??... its only a courier delivering flowers for someone's bday, I sign and run back to my desk,  I have lost over 30 seconds playing time. Norrrrrrrr. This is never going to end well... a few more moves go by then BOOOOOOOOOOOOM, I Break my 12 move record, whats more he was a decent rank compare to me.

http://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=349512569



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 23, 2012, 05:44:39 PM
Well done! Keep winning games in 12 moves and you should be doing more than contributing the odd game!

Ng5 is a common idea in these Italian/2 Knights games. There is a particular line called The Fried Liver, believe it or not! The common response when someone is moving away from the centre is to hit back through it, so Ng5 is often followed by d5 for Black, which blocks the bishop.

If he takes it on your game with the pawn, you can play Na5, either forcing the exchange ofthe troublesome bishop or getting him off that nasty diagonal. If he takes with the knight, recapture with yours and you have a discovered attack on his knight with your queen. If he takes with the bishop, you can take it ans he's lost one of his most important pieces in this opening. It might not become apparent until much later in the game (if you haven't checkmated him by then!)

Seriously tho, good stuff. Get that rating into 4 figures and kick on!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: millidonk on August 23, 2012, 06:59:25 PM
Ah yes the fried liver attack aka the Fegatello Attack... Ya learn something new everyday. I like it.

After reviewing some of my losses I think I am a bit too aggro with my queen, keep getting myself stuck in traps.

What's the quickest way to improve your rating?



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on August 23, 2012, 07:02:12 PM
...

What's the quickest way to improve your rating?



win more games :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 23, 2012, 07:18:27 PM
Quote from: millidonk link=topic=5844won't g1625060#msg1625060 date=1345744765
...

What's the quickest way to improve your rating?



win more games :)

Get someone better to play for you à la [insert name of poker player accused of doing this but for legal reasons we won't name]

Joking aside, attacking chess is a good strategy and tactical threats are good against weak opponents. Just watch what they are up to. As long as you know why they have made their last move, you can work out what to do about it.

Keep playing simple openings like the one you showed today; simple, rapid development ftw


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 23, 2012, 07:27:12 PM
Re: the Fegatello Attack, little did you know you were playing a similar line to one played in 1610!

I'd never heard of Fegatello either. Unsurprisingly, as a junior player, you hear "fried liver opening" and that's the name that sticks!

The Jännisch Variation of the Ruy Lopez is also called the Schliemann ("silly man's opening")

There's also an Elephant, a Frankenstein-Dracula, a Cabbage, a Fred (Tikay, are you listening? A Fred)...

This list is just the animal-named variations: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_chess_openings_named_after_animals



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Stevie B on August 23, 2012, 08:21:06 PM
Does chess have anything similair to the WSOP, WPT or EPT? What would be considered the best single tournament to win for the top players or is it all about accumulating ranking points throughout the season?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 23, 2012, 08:40:11 PM
Does chess have anything similair to the WSOP, WPT or EPT? What would be considered the best single tournament to win for the top players or is it all about accumulating ranking points throughout the season?

Players are rated based on their performance against other players, so it's a bit like a continuous ranking system.

There's a World Championship every couple of years and a series of tournaments to get to play the current champion.

That aside, there are some big tournaments such as in Wijk aan Zee in the spring. There's a big one in London in December, although it's a relatively new one.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on August 23, 2012, 09:09:34 PM
Does chess have anything similair to the WSOP, WPT or EPT? What would be considered the best single tournament to win for the top players or is it all about accumulating ranking points throughout the season?

Players are rated based on their performance against other players, so it's a bit like a continuous ranking system.

...

FWIW - as I've already mentioned ITT that I used to work for the British Chess Federation, that's what I was mainly overseeing when I was there.

There are voluntary directors to work out the 'bigger picture' but for the BCF rankings and membership I was the one who was paid to do all the administrative donkey work.

Haven't really got anything to add to that though - it wasn't very interesting - being ignored by Nigel Short (because he didn't like the BCF) about sums up the excitement level.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 23, 2012, 09:24:23 PM
Does chess have anything similair to the WSOP, WPT or EPT? What would be considered the best single tournament to win for the top players or is it all about accumulating ranking points throughout the season?

Players are rated based on their performance against other players, so it's a bit like a continuous ranking system.

...

FWIW - as I've already mentioned ITT that I used to work for the British Chess Federation, that's what I was mainly overseeing when I was there.

There are voluntary directors to work out the 'bigger picture' but for the BCF rankings and membership I was the one who was paid to do all the administrative donkey work.

Haven't really got anything to add to that though - it wasn't very interesting - being ignored by Nigel Short (because he didn't like the BCF) about sums up the excitement level.

And a mighty fine job you did, too, Jon :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Stevie B on August 23, 2012, 09:29:05 PM
...

What's the quickest way to improve your rating?



win more games :)

When I first joined I played a few single games to guesstimate my realistic ranking. I then joined a min/max ranking tourney where I was one of the lower ranked players, so if I lost, I would lose minimum points but fortunately I managed to beat a couple of the higher ranked players.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 24, 2012, 07:19:37 PM
If you want to know what's on near where you are, here's the English Chess Federation's tournament calendar:

http://www.englishchess.org.uk/?page_id=27

99% of tournaments are free for spectators, who are most welcome to pop in and watch the events. There are etiquette rules like not talking to the spectators while they're playing, not shouting "you sunk my battleship" and not laughing at old people who lose to small children.

 Live and learn, eh?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 24, 2012, 11:30:21 PM
Latest Danny King video is up, chaps and chapesses:



YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BYN3sOWuXA


We had one of these earlier in this thread.

This is number 10, in case you've missed any.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 24, 2012, 11:32:53 PM
And here's #11...


YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjM_t8YJ4mA


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 25, 2012, 01:04:03 AM
And for those who prefer the stories, I have had a look at the places where chess was regularly played in Victorian London and found this website:

http://www.victorianlondon.org/entertainment/dickens-chessclubs.htm

Here's an extract from a report by Charles Dickens Jr (Boz's first son):

Chess Clubs.— What may be termed the coffee-house epoch in the history of chess in England ended in the year 1810 with the establishment of the London Chess club, where members met for play in a private room in Cornhill. For some sixteen years afterwards it was the only association of the kind in London, and being supported chiefly by City merchants and members of the Stock Exchange, who played chess in the middle of the day, it was practically closed to amateurs whose occupations or pursuits were not "of the City" or whose only leisure was to be found in the evenings.

It had other disadvantages from the amateur's point of view, not the least of which was that the members comprised a host of experts in the science of chess, giants in whose company the tyro of the period was much more likely to be awed than edified. There was no chess club at the west end of the town at this period, but accommodation for players was provided in numerous coffee-houses, where "Monsieur" and "Herr," who since the first French Revolution have been always with us, dispensed instruction at such charges as their modest requirements suggested.

In 1823 a West-end chess club was established, with special rooms, &c., at the Perry Coffee-house in Rathbone-place. The members met for play at seven in the evening, sat down to a hot supper at ten—it was fifty years ago—and broke up at half- past eleven. Murphy, a miniature painter of note at that time, became a member of this club soon after its foundation, and introduced to the members the greatest player of the period— William Lewis. Lewis was then a merchants clerk, and, after the death of Sarratt, the strongest chess-player in England. He won the admiration of the Percy Chess Club by beating their best players at the odds of a rook.

In 1825 the Percy Chess Club was closed, and Lewis opened subscription rooms in St. Martin's-lane, where he was patronised by nearly all the best players in London: Alexander Macdonnell, subsequently the famous rival of La Bourdonnais; John Cochrane, the most brilliant player that ever appeared in the chess arena; Richard Penn, the author of the quaintest book in the language, "Maxims and Hints for Chess Players and Anglers" (illustrated by Stanfield); Bohn, the bookseller; and Pratt, of Lincoln's-inn, the author of a book on chess, that was described by Professor Allen, of Philadelphia, as a marvellous mixture of 'Schoolmaster's English and Johnsonese.' These rooms were closed in 1827, through the failure of Lewis. The London Chess Club still prospered; and it was not until the year 1832 that a rival association appeared upon the scene. Early in that year the famous Westminster Chess Club was opened in a room upon the first floor of a coffee-house in Bedford-street, Covent-garden, kept by one Huttman. The new club was immediately successful, and under its auspices was played the celebrated match between Westminster and Paris in 1834.

The club was temporarily dissolved in 1835, and was reorganised in the same year, the members meeting in Mr. Ries's drawing-room adjoining the Divan in the Strand, of which establishment that gentleman was the proprietor. Here Howard Staunton, for many years the champion chess-player of England, made his first appearance, and here were played the games in his match with Poyert. In 1840 the West- minster Chess Club was again dissolved—the City Club still prospering—but it was once more revived by Staunton, and the meetings were held in Charles-street, off the Haymarket. Its career was brief, however, and it was finally closed in 1843.

In the same year a new chess club at the West-end was formed, at Beatties Hotel, George-street, Cavendish-square, and was called after the name of the street in which its first meetings were held, the St. George's Chess Club. Beattie's Hotel was closed in the following year, and the St. George's removed to new quarters at the Polytechnic. Here was played the first International Chess Tournament in 1851, and here the club remained until the end of 1854, when it became associated with the Cavendish, a newly-formed club in Regent- street, and soon afterwards moved to the house formerly Crockford's, in St. James's- street, then called the Wellington. In the year 1857 the St. George's removed to its present quarters, Palace-chambers, King-street, St. James's.

Meanwhile, in 1852, a -club was formed in the city, under the title of the City of London Chess Club, by a few amateurs of little note at the time. This association has since been strengthened by the accession of all the foremost English players, and is now, in point of numbers, and the chess force and public repute of its members, the strongest chess club in the world. In 1866 a chess club, reviving the name of the "Westminster," whose history we have recounted, was formed by a number of influential amateurs, but it ceased to exist as a chess club in 1875, when it was dissolved, and reconstituted under the name of the Junior Portland as a whist -club.

(http://www.victorianlondon.org/entertainment2/chess.gif)



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: snoopy1239 on August 25, 2012, 10:22:14 AM
Thanks for the thread. Have been watching.
Used to play in chess tournaments when I was a kid.
One time I pressed my side of the clock but didn't do it properly and my timer kept running.
Other kid didn't tell me for ages, but I caught him glancing and then realised.
I lost on time.
If I ever see him again, I will clock him.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on August 26, 2012, 12:44:04 AM
OK finally got around to making a chess.com account. After confirming that I'm still rubbish at any kind of speed chess I've fired up half a dozen slow games.

This was the first game I finished. Being so long out of the game is my excuse for doing 3 stupid things in the first 6 moves (playing as black) - but luckily I had an opponent who let me get away with those blunders and recover

http://www.chess.com/echess/game?id=57591890 (http://www.chess.com/echess/game?id=57591890)

Apart from - "pay attention" - any thoughts on strengths and weaknesses would be particularly welcome.

Obviously I had to look up what the hell was going on right at the beginning and it turns out it was this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayward_Queen_Attack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayward_Queen_Attack)

Including my response it was the King Pawn Game: Wayward Queen Attack, Kiddie Countergambit  :D which is a cool name but there's a subtle clue that I'd include the countergambit as a blunder with the notation wikipedia uses to describe it ( Nf6?! )

The opening is:
1. e4       e5
2. Qh5    Nf6


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 26, 2012, 03:43:57 AM
I think following the masses mightn't be a bad idea on this occasion, Jon: defend the pawn with 2...Nc6.

As for more general tips, you should never make a move without knowing why the other guy played his last move. That's a sure fire way to cut out 80% of those silly errors.

Your inclination to get the pieces centralised and working together was absolutely correct and you developed quickly, which is great.

You will improve from playing more, because you will get sharper and more in-tune with the game.

Just as yourself every time, "Why did he do that?"


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on August 26, 2012, 06:13:40 AM
...
Just as yourself every time, "Why did he do that?"

Thanks, after the opening fiasco that was pretty much what I was doing. The next step being - 'is it something I have to react to?', or will my next attack force him to react to it so I don't need to worry about his plan straight away.*

I remember from when I played more regularly before that just playing more does seem to disproportionately improve your game - but this is basically the reason why I'm rubbish at speed games. However much practice I get I can't quite get the intuitive feel of making the right move at the right time. It has to be a thought out grand strategy for me to stand a chance.


*EDIT: the next step of my thought process being - can I adapt my plan of attack to take advantage of what he's planning to do? - the usual answer is no, but I found in that game for instance that the odd time where it is possible can be what changes the course of the game significantly.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 26, 2012, 09:52:53 PM
...
Just as yourself every time, "Why did he do that?"

Thanks, after the opening fiasco that was pretty much what I was doing. The next step being - 'is it something I have to react to?', or will my next attack force him to react to it so I don't need to worry about his plan straight away.*

I remember from when I played more regularly before that just playing more does seem to disproportionately improve your game - but this is basically the reason why I'm rubbish at speed games. However much practice I get I can't quite get the intuitive feel of making the right move at the right time. It has to be a thought out grand strategy for me to stand a chance.


*EDIT: the next step of my thought process being - can I adapt my plan of attack to take advantage of what he's planning to do? - the usual answer is no, but I found in that game for instance that the odd time where it is possible can be what changes the course of the game significantly.

You can spend all summer studying theory but it isn't the same as playing games.

It is the same for us all


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 28, 2012, 09:33:04 AM
In 1924, 16 nations submitted a team of its best players to see which came out on top. It proved to be a successful format and has been repeated about every two years since.

Today, there are expected to be over 140 nations sending forward their elite.

With a couple of notable exceptions (including Magnus Carlsen - although tbf Norway has no chance of winning and he does normally play), there is a wealth of Super-GM talent, as well as people at the lower end who would be little more than top county players here.

There is a separate tournament for women (a sister tournament?), which is standard fare, as nations simply don't have the strength in depth without Y chromosomes, so this offers an opportunity for competition.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8436 is the chessbase preview but you might well prefer to see the event's coverage by the Yorkshire Chess Association:

http://yorkshirechess.org/

There is even a gambling opportunity, with a £5 fantasy competition. Have a look at the site, because there are previews and tips. Remember that the higher the rating number, the stronger the player and the lower the board a person will play on, the weaker the opponent will be (you have to play in strength order, which isn't necessarily the same as rating - Gawain Jones will be playing ahead of Nigel Short).


EDIT: apparently entries for the fantasy competition are now closed. Shame I missed this yesterday or we could have had some fun with it.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 28, 2012, 09:52:56 AM
I should also explain that the event takes place in Istanbul, in case anyone near Yorkshire was thinking of making a trip. No I've no idea either why Yorkshire Chess is covering the event, but it is and the website looks excellent.

In more pantomimey news, former World Champion, Garry Kasparov was cleared of the protest charges on Friday, following his dramatic arrest at the trial of the Pussy Riot band members.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8431

The biting allegation remains, although there seems to be evidence to suggest he didn't do it. Bonkers.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Honeybadger on August 28, 2012, 11:34:06 AM
I want to recommend a chess book. It is called 'Simple Chess' by Michael Stean:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Simple-Chess-Michael-Stean/dp/0486424200/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1346149473&sr=1-1

It was written ages ago but it is a great book for anyone who is interested in chess, plays a bit, but would like to extend their play beyond simple tactics ("he moves there, then I move there" etc) and start understanding chess strategy and positional play. I remember it had a massively positive impact on my game back in the day.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 28, 2012, 01:10:50 PM
Excellent stuff. I know next to nothing about Michael Stean, except that he was a prominent English player in the 70s and 80s.

I started out with an opening book. My father took me to a tournament and, while I was playing, he walked along the aisles, looking at what everyone was playing as their first move. Then he went to the bookstall (there's one at every chess comp) and bought a book on an opening that no one had played: 1.f4 (P-KB4). It was only a flimsy thing really but it gave me an edge early on knowing I was surprising the opposition.

The opening is still played but I wouldn't recommend deviating too heavily from the norm. Get the basics right first and then experiment.

On the back of that book suggestion, for those who have got a handle on the fundamentals - say anyone getting to 1200 - I cannot recommend highly enough the Super System of chess books: My System by Aron Nimzowicz.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/System-Chess-Classics-Aron-Nimzowitsch/dp/9197600539/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1346155089&sr=1-1

There is not one great player in the last 80 years that hasn't read it. It is written simply and logically and is as relevant today as it ever was.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Honeybadger on August 28, 2012, 02:17:27 PM
On the back of that book suggestion, for those who have got a handle on the fundamentals - say anyone getting to 1200 - I cannot recommend highly enough the Super System of chess books: My System by Aron Nimzowicz.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/System-Chess-Classics-Aron-Nimzowitsch/dp/9197600539/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1346155089&sr=1-1

There is not one great player in the last 80 years that hasn't read it. It is written simply and logically and is as relevant today as it ever was.

I am going to completely disagree with you about this one Tal!

I would strongly recommend NO-ONE to read My System unless they are already a very strong player. And by strong I mean a lot stronger than an average club player. I suspect it has screwed up the games of far more 'competent but not better than that' players than it has helped. This would include me. I read it when I was a decent club player (around BCF 135). I was simply not ready for his esoteric hypermodern ideas, since I had not yet fully internalised the classical concepts which he was attacking.

Obviously it is a wonderful book and hugely important/influential in the development of chess theory. And of course almost every top player will have studied this book. But benefiting from this book is only possible if you already understand a ton of other stuff, and without this knowledge it is going to harm your game not help it. Any player who reads this thread who has not already heard of My System would be far better off reading other stuff first and waiting a LONG TIME before reading Nimzowitsch. If they are good enough to benefit from this book they will already know about it!

Same principles behind which openings to play. Everyone should start off playing 1 e4 as White, and then move on to d4 later. They should answer 1 e4 with 1... e5, and answer 1 d4 with 1 ...d5. Only when they have mastered the concepts behind direct control of the center can they even begin to understand the hypermodern ideas of indirect control. You have to learn to construct before you can deconstruct. For the same reasons, most players would gain MUCH more from studying the classical games from a 100+ years ago than playing through modern grandmaster games from this era. And they'd enjoy them more too.

Edited to say: Obviously some of his concepts are really important for those just starting out in chess as well as more advanced players. For example his explanations of outposts, pawns chains and the blockade are really good, and much of this can be understood by less advanced players and will help them rather than confuse them. However, these things are also discussed in other books that are much better for players who have not reached the standard of being a strong club player. Obviously if a weaker player is reading this book in conjunction with a skilled chess coach then my advice above is less relevant, since the coach will know exactly which parts of the book to focus on and which parts to keep his student away from until later. However, I would be very surprised if any truly great coach would even begin to introduce this book to a student until he had worked on a TON of other stuff with him/her first.

Don't get me wrong, I think this book is ACE... and it should definitely be read at some point in one's chess development. I just strongly believe that most players read it far too soon.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 28, 2012, 02:44:28 PM
Fair enough for you to disagree. I do stand by my view on it, though.

You are right that no one should try to run before they can walk and I would agree that understanding that control of the centre is important in the opening and such concepts is essential, but the same can be said of any book designed for already competent players - hence the comparison to Super System.

However, the thing that most frequently separates the stronger players from the others is that they are complete players and this is where the book helps.

The book should be hard to read; it should challenge, make you think, make you research and analyse. Not all of the concepts will be easy to digest but I don't agree that it would be harmful for sub1700 players to read it.

It is the kind of book you can go back to and I suspect that's partly what you are getting at.

It will always be true that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. If I came on here and explained that bishops are generally better than knights in the endgame, it wouldn't be long before I had a slew of complaints from people who had lost games despite doing as suggested.

Understanding the game isn't easy - I'll let you know when I get there :) - and there will be plenty of occasions I could dig out from my own games where I have played a move because of a particular concept (opposite coloured bishops, knight v bad bishop, attack the base of the chain, jumping off rooks), only to find I had made a fatal error because I had mis-applied the principle.

It is all a learning curve and this is why I believe it is (if not essential, because that is a strong word) useful for developing players to see what Nimzowitsch had to say.

Always keen for debate on these matters. The healthier the thread is the better.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on August 28, 2012, 04:16:38 PM
couple of books I got ,

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chess-Puzzles-Improve-Your-Game/dp/023399713X/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1346166168&sr=1-5

this one has some nice problems but it helps you look for pins/forks etc in games so improving it

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Opening-Repertoire-Attacking-Player-Cadogan/dp/1857441966/ref=sr_1_33?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1346166315&sr=1-33

below county level standard (2000 grade ) , there is no need to study chess openings , just a good understanding will do like this book
its better to study endgames than openings in general , they will come up at some point


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 28, 2012, 05:46:32 PM
All book suggestions are good and keep them coming.I think it might help if I address the thread more generally on this.

Simple, straightforward openings are always a good start. The aim is to develop quickly, find a safe haven for the King and have everything pointing in the same direction for an attack.

Kasparov says that the player who has completed his development first has "won" the opening. It's a simplistic assessment but not unmeritorious. The game is so much easier when you have completed your development (and by that mean made pawn moves to occupy or defend at least some of the central four squares, moved each of the bishops and knights into helpful positions (not necessarily attacking, but doing something) and decided what to do about the king (castle one way or the other, or leave it in the middle because you are attacking the flanks)) and you will play games online where the other chap only develops some of his material and you walk through him.

Lots of openings have all this in mind and the main variations will show that there is a typical plan for both Black and White. This is important because it gives you a starting point for your plans; you understand why the bishop moves to b5 in the Ruy Lopez, rather than c4 in the Guicco Pianissimo.

Misplaced pieces from the opponent are less relevant for new starters than for experienced players, but it remains the case that it is important for players of any level to put their own pieces on logical squares. You always want to make the best move on the board and the easiest way to get close to doing that is to have a reason behind every move.

When you tell some Railbird your exit hand and he says "you bet too much on the flop", you will likely have an answer prepared (even if it is mathematically and objectively suboptimal). The same should always be true in chess.

Don't fear getting the wrong move but know why you made it. When you look back and realise that was the root cause of all your problems in the game, you can start to work out what went wrong.

It's so easy for me to sit on a busy train and act like Socrates. I make, have made and will continue to make just about every mistake in the book. We can only try to improve and learn from those mistakes.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: millidonk on August 29, 2012, 09:49:00 AM
I feel the best chess book around has been overlooked.

(http://www.chess-game-strategies.com/images/book_chess-for-dummies_234x296.gif)

Also available in .pdf


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 29, 2012, 10:30:50 PM
Very chess content light; almost entirely narrative. One of the best known stories in chess: Bobby Fischer v Boris Spassky.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/0571214126/ref=mp_s_a_6?pi=46x75&qid=1346274887&sr=8-6


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41J9SSZPXGL._SX300_.jpg)


And the best chess film - genuinely highlights the strange world of junior chess - is Innocent Moves (later retitled The Search for Bobby Fischer):     





Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 29, 2012, 10:31:55 PM
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Innocent-Moves-DVD-Joe-Mantegna/dp/B00009V8YD


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 30, 2012, 10:37:38 PM
I've spoken of a few characters on this thread so far, but I remembered one of my favourite stories this afternoon and it just so happens to involve our friend, Mr Blackburne.

It is a curious and charming quirk of storytelling that the background gets contorted, mis-remembered and embellished by the person telling it and, over the years, you end up with a mish-mash of details. In varying reports over the years, the incident took place in New York, Vienna and “On the Continent somewhere”. The words used vary just as much, apart from the most wonderful and glorious piece of Englishness you might ever encounter. Even Blackburne’s opponent differs! Rather than regurgitate the views of others, I shall tell you how I reckon it, as the kids say, went down…

Blackburne was playing in a tournament in 1899 against the Austro-Hungarian master Lipschütz, about whom comparatively little is known (including, I should add, his first name). A contemporary described him as a "frail little man, with a gentlemanly mien and manners and an extravagantly long, pointed nose - the Cyrano of Chess". As the name might suggest, Lipschütz was Jewish and, upon being checkmated by a Blackburne moment of inspiration, Lipschütz declared:

Der alte Geneff hat mich mattgesetzt!


From what we have learned of Blackburne, it will come as little surprise that he wanted to know what his opponent had announced to the crowd. He approached a man he knew and trusted, Jacques Mieses. Mieses was a strong player of the time and spoke both German and Yiddish. Blackburne explained that he knew “der alte” to mean “the old” and that “hat mich mattgesetzt” means “mated me”, but he had never heard of a “Geneff”.

Mieses looked sheepishly in the face of the dominant figure before him. He knew that “Geneff” is a Yiddish term for a crook.

Wisely, Mieses gave broad responses but Blackburne was having none of it. When Mieses offered that he was sure that Lipschütz would have meant it as little more than a jocularly endearing term, Blackburne realised that he would not be getting a straight answer out of his friend. Like a true Englishman, he had a better idea.

Blackburne asked Mieses whether one could be a Geneff and a gentleman at the same time.

Mieses thought for a moment, before assuring him that one could. With that, Blackburne thanked his friend for his assistance and went away satisfied. How could anything be considered an insult when it is possible to be that and a gentleman at the same time?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 30, 2012, 11:47:50 PM
For those who like more chess than story, here's a particularly instructive game from another chap we've discussed before, Alekhine. Here is a link to the game:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1011854

This was one of the games Alekhine played in a simultaneous display in Paris in September 1913 and has been dubbed “Pratfall”, because the unwitting opponent was a Mr Prat.

I’m going to analyse the game a little bit, just so that those who want to take something out of it beyond the story can do so. Those who want to skip through can, of course, read at a pace that suits.

The opening is a Queen's Gambit. White doesn’t mind Black taking the pawn on c4 because it reduces Black’s influence on the centre and, if Black tries to hold on to the pawn (which he will do in some variations) with pawns to a6 and b5, White can attack those with pawn to a4 (one of the key concepts in Nimzowitch’s book My System is attacking the base of the chain of pawns and, in that set up, this would be attacking the b5 pawn. So, if Black elects not to defend the pawn, White can recapture with his bishop in a couple of moves and have a nice centre.

When Prat took the pawn on c4 in this game, he had already used a move defending the d5 pawn with e6. In doing so, he blocked in his light-squared bishop on c8, which, although far from terminal, is something Alekhine himself regarded as a subtle error.

What happens is that Alekhine begins to dominate the centre. Eleven moves in, White has those three lovely pawns on c3, d4 and e4 and two fantastic bishops, cutting Black’s position in two. The Black knights have so few squares. He’s done nothing obviously wrong; just been a little bit passive. And already he’s squirming in his chair, as Alekhine works through 20 boards, ponders briefly, makes another developing move and wanders on. 

15 moves in, now. Have a look at the position after Black’s fifteenth move. He is so cramped and White has an abundance of space. Here comes the killer blow. Remember how the light-squared bishop for Black hadn’t been developed? Well that means that Black is vulnerable on the white squares away from that bishop, such as the ones near the king. This is where the pieces all come together: the light-squared white bishop on c4 has that delicious diagonal towards the king. The queen has a path to hitting the white squares on the right hand side of the board, too. How to expose the weaknesses in the Black position?

16. Nxf7! 

POW!! BIFF!! ZOK!!

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r94AJzJZZaU

Alekhine himself comments in his book that, although White can get the piece back if he wants, this move was the start of an elegant combination he had seen.

After White plays 18.Bd6, even though Black has an extra knight, what use is it? He has an extra pistol but no bullets. You could throw a thimble over the pieces, they are that close together. Again, White has a completely commanding position and Alekhine was in no mood to let Prat off the hook.

On move 21, Prat manages to kick the bishop off that merciless diagonal. As is the custom in simultaneous games, when Alekhine approached, Prat would have made his move immediately and Alekhine would respond in something between 10 and 60 seconds. Alekhine made his next move and declared “Checkmate in ten moves against any defence, sir”.

How you like dem apples?

He didn’t even move the bishop: he sacrificed his queen! Prat resigned just before being checkmated. I should add that, at that time, it was common to declare that checkmate would follow in a certain number of moves, particularly when masters were playing amateurs. It wasn’t an angle-shoot!

A ten move forced checkmate, which started with a queen sacrifice, where only a twentieth of his attention was on that game.

Oh to be that good!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: smashedagain on August 31, 2012, 01:01:45 AM
The stories are great and balance the thread. Who in the chess world could be described as the Stu Ungar of chess and why please?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on August 31, 2012, 06:16:41 AM

Alekhine made his next move and declared “Checkmate in ten moves against any defence, sir”.

How you like dem apples?


Wonderful, absolutely wonderful.

I do hope you persevere with this Thread, Tally.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on August 31, 2012, 06:19:18 AM
Very chess content light; almost entirely narrative. One of the best known stories in chess: Bobby Fischer v Boris Spassky.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/0571214126/ref=mp_s_a_6?pi=46x75&qid=1346274887&sr=8-6


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41J9SSZPXGL._SX300_.jpg)


And the best chess film - genuinely highlights the strange world of junior chess - is Innocent Moves (later retitled The Search for Bobby Fischer):     





This book I must have!

Note to self - Waterstones, Kingston upon Thames, first thing tomorrow.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 31, 2012, 10:27:35 AM
The stories are great and balance the thread. Who in the chess world could be described as the Stu Ungar of chess and why please?

An interesting question. Cross-game/sport comparisons are something the press like to do (“he’s the Lionel Messi of snooker”...“he’s the Muhammad Ali of table tennis”...“she’s the Don Bradman of badger baiting”) and, although the comparisons are a bit false (none of these people set out to be anything other than brilliant in their own right), I can certainly offer a list of possible suspects. I love making comparisons

The obvious one is Bobby Fischer. He was an American for starters. He was a child prodigy, blessed with a brilliant gift, who took on the (USSR) establishment and won. He had his demons throughout his life and this led to his demise: an unpleasant and tortured fall from Grace. He died in exile, a shell of the man he once was. He was terrifically outspoken and, curiously, completely unable to understand sarcasm.

We have also discussed Paul Morphy, who was the best player in the world without question for some time, but retired from chess at 22 and never played competitively again.

Fischer’s style of play was similar to someone half a century before him: the Cuban master José Raùl Capablanca (these names all sound exotic until you translate them into English: Joe Whitehead, anyone?). Capablanca was himself a prodigy, beating the Cuban champion at just 12. He was an outstanding rapid player (where you play with 30-60mins each on the clock – doesn’t sound “rapid” but time controls at the highest level tend to give players 3-4 hours each) and won a tournament ahead of the World Champion (Lasker) at 18. By this time, he had moved to New York (he actually played baseball to a high standard) and he was merciless in simultaneous displays across the US.

Capablanca trounced the fearless American master Frank Marshall 15-8 in a sponsored match and Marshall insisted that his victor be included in the upcoming San Sebastian tournament of 1911, featuring the absolute best in the world (with the exception of the World Champion, Lasker). Despite objections to a relatively unproven 22 year old being invited to play against the elite, Capablanca produced a series of dazzling games, winning the tournament with six wins, seven draws and just one loss (that game being regarded as one of the greatest single game performances of all time – by Akira Rubenstein).

Unlike some of the characters we have seen on this thread, Capablanca was cautious in his style, developing his pieces quietly – generally nothing flamboyant – and outplaying his opponent with his incredible endgame technique. He drew fewer games than most, simply because he was able to outplay people from level positions in endgames (this is something Carlsen has been known to do in the modern game).

 After he became World Champion in 1921, beating Lasker over 14 games 9-5 without losing a game, he went on an impressive run of games, tournament and matches, becoming seemingly invincible. He played a 103 board simultaneous match and won 102, drawing just one. Between 1916 and 1924, he lost no games in top flight competition. He was, of course, the darling of the Cuban media, as well as the New York press, with no less than Che Guevara being a fan. He married but the relationship was troubled and, despite it bringing a child, it wasn’t meant to be. He lost both of his parents in the mid-1920s.

Capablanca was noted for his lack of diplomacy when discussing his games. He wrote a book in which he essentially told his readers that he had included everything a chess student would ever need to know. He even claimed to have “solved” chess; to have taken it as far as it could be taken. He invented new pieces to make the game more interesting, with a 10x8 board. He lost the world title in 1927 to Alekhine in a titanic battle over 34 games (often the title was decided by the first player to reach a certain number of wins and, here, there were 25 draws between them). The two players fell out during the match quite dramatically, with accusations flying both ways and demands that appearance fees be higher than the other person’s.

 

This was the start of the decline for Capablanca. Over the next few years, his speed of play slowed and he began to struggle on the clock, which was utterly inconceivable when at his best. In 1931, he retired from competitive chess, but for the odd exhibition.     

Like Mr Ungar, Capablanca made a comeback. Despite some excellent results against the elite players in the mid-1930s (including the new names like Botvinnik), he suffered from high blood pressure and his concentration was affected. Alekhine refused a World Title challenge when war was declared (Alekhine was now a French citizen). Capablanca was never the same as when in his heyday, though; he was just about invincible in the early and mid-1920s. He died at 53 from his blood pressure.

He is still regarded by some as the greatest player ever.

For offering something different, for character, for influence on the game, for drama, for the comeback, for the demons, for sheer brilliance, I’d propose Capablanca as “the Stu Ungar of chess.”


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 31, 2012, 10:34:54 AM
(http://www.yonne-echecs.org/chessplayers/JR_Capablanca.jpg)

A young Mr Capablanca .

(http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/62/92962-004-3DF12C52.jpg)

Here playing a simultaneous exhibition.

And here playing a friendly game with the Einstein lookalike Emanuel Lasker:

(http://media-1.web.britannica.com/eb-media/69/18369-004-25AB8339.jpg)




Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on August 31, 2012, 10:36:05 AM
The obvious one is Bobby Fischer. He was an American for starters. He was a child prodigy, blessed with a brilliant gift, who took on the (USSR) establishment and won. He had his demons throughout his life and this led to his demise: an unpleasant and tortured fall from Grace. He died in exile, a shell of the man he once was. He was terrifically outspoken and, curiously, completely unable to understand sarcasm.

I never knew that, but it suddenly prompts the notion that perhaps he was autistic, or maybe had Aspergers?

He always seemed a little "unusual", a flawed genius.

Pretty sad that he fell from gace, & our respect & affection, so totally. Not the first genius to do that, & sure won't be the last.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 31, 2012, 10:42:10 AM
The obvious one is Bobby Fischer. He was an American for starters. He was a child prodigy, blessed with a brilliant gift, who took on the (USSR) establishment and won. He had his demons throughout his life and this led to his demise: an unpleasant and tortured fall from Grace. He died in exile, a shell of the man he once was. He was terrifically outspoken and, curiously, completely unable to understand sarcasm.

I never knew that, but it suddenly prompts the notion that perhaps he was autistic, or maybe had Aspergers?

He always seemed a little "unusual", a flawed genius.

Pretty sad that he fell from gace, & our respect & affection, so totally. Not the first genius to do that, & sure won't be the last.

Very true. It is likely Fischer suffered from something along those lines. It later became a delusional paranoia, which drove him completely over the edge.

There are many stories of chess leading to madness (there is of course debate as to whether they start out not wired correctly and the chess was just an attractive distraction/outlet - chicken and egg). Another time, perhaps.

I'm nowhere near good enough at chess to be mad. Grateful for small mercies, eh?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on August 31, 2012, 11:04:33 AM
Tal (and anyone else), it's interesting what was mentioned earlier in the thread about mastering the 'standard' openings for beginners and intermediate players and then progressing to other openings and styles of play.

I took a slightly different route to many when I used to play seriously.  I have always been inherently lazy, whilst also being very dedicated and committed to putting in 100% into something I enjoy. So basically, unless something is interesting to me or offers me exceptional benefits, I'll try to take the path of least resistance and cut corners where possible.  I had the same approach to chess.  When I was aged about 7, I had problems getting a good night's sleep.  I'd wake up in the middle of the night and read until I feel asleep. A lot of the time I'd read chess books and even get a board out and try things out, learn new opening variations, etc. My strengths in chess were my ability to read the game and could see what was happening or going to happen many moves ahead.  I'd be able to look at a position in the middle-game and see how a series of moves would give me a stronger pawn formation to take into the end-game and ultimately win the game. My end-game play was very solid, and if there wasn't an obvious 'quick-win' in the middle-game my tactics would be to see how I could get to the end-game with a positional or material advantage.

My chess coach and a lot of the books would discuss the variety of openings and the advantages and disadvantages of each of them. But I had a better idea (a limited one, but it worked well for me). As white, I'd always play d4 (I say always, I'd also mix it up a little of course, and did enjoy playing the English Opening as well from time to time). As black, I'd always play the Sicilian (dragon, accelerated dragon or Najdorf variations most of the time).  I'd NEVER play the Ruy Lopez, never.  My thinking was people studied the Ruy Lopez and its countless variations and so I wouldn't. Instead I read all about different Queen's pawn openings and variations, and the same for the Sicilian Defence.  I'd study variations and learn about the pros and cons, and I'd know that very few of my opponents would be as well versed in them, so even the variations that risked giving up a little positional equity if the opposition played correctly were 'profitable' to me as the opposition wouldn't have studied them in such depth and didn't know the correct lines to take advantage of the opportunity - meaning they missed it and I got the upper hand.

One of my main books for studying openings was Modern Chess Openings (edited by Walter Korn) - no idea which edition it was, but I'm guessing it's not very modern any more! 

My coach wanted me to expand my opening repertoire, and to start playing e4 as white, or e5 as black.  But to me this meant studying a whole raft of openings (Ruy Lopez, French Defence - yawn, and all sorts of other openings that excited me as much as a lecture by tikay on the iron-built bridges of 19c Derbyshire).  Of course, by sticking to my restricted opening lines it meant the good opposition players I used to come up against would know the openings I played and would look to catch me out.  The thing is, unless they studied hard, they'd have a job getting the upper-hand playing a variation that they weren't very familiar with - or they'd have to try something fancy, or something a bit daring that they wouldn't know that intimately themselves.

Can't remember what my point was other than there's so much to learn and study in chess, why not focus on your strengths and not try to be a jack of all trades and a master (pun intended) of none - and instead be a specialist.  Of course, it's not that simple especially against better opponents.  But I was lethal at blitz chess when I forced people down uncomfortable opening lines they couldn't just play through mechanically.  Those were the days...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on August 31, 2012, 11:10:38 AM
How funny you should say that! Capablanca was known never to study opening theory, which is why he played such solid, reliable stuff early in the game.

1.d4 tends to offer quieter games than 1.e4, although it is interesting that you played the Dragon and the Najdorf, which are two of the most theorised and analysed openings in the book.

The reason I played 1.f4 as a junior is the same as yours though: no one else was doing it and it took them out of their established theory.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on August 31, 2012, 11:16:38 AM
The reason I played Dragon and Najdorf (and studied them so much), is that I could play variations that others hadn't studied in such depth.  Often a bit of a gamble, because if they knew the correct lines (as those better than me put forward) then they'd have the upper hand.  But more often than not, they'd try to stick to the tried and tested lines despite me taking a bit of a detour and lining them up for a fall.

With d4, I love the battle down white's left flank (which would often develop).  With ..c5 I used to love the 'race' when white and black castled on opposite sides.

Capablanca was a genius.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: smashedagain on August 31, 2012, 11:16:54 AM
Ty very much for the reply and like Tikay says its a great thread and long may it continue.

Possibly inspired by this thread or just coincidence, I have had a few games with my niece (6) and nephew (9) this week. I don't play the game at all, think I am clever showing them the four move check mate, but was very suprised how quickly they have picked the game up. The niece is particually good and can beat her brother and actually thinks 3 or 4 moves ahead which I found impressive after only learning the game a couple of weeks ago. You say to her what if this piece moves here, she will then say "yes but then this goes like this and them this can do this" etc. Just basic level 1 stuff I assume but it is great fun.

Wow long post from Kinboshi. He has an interesting diary that I read too but sadly I have even less to contribute to that one. The wife does say I need to go jogging with her tho :)



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Honeybadger on September 01, 2012, 03:27:12 PM
WARNING: Long post that was never intended to be long!!

Cliffs:

1. I discuss my thoughts on chess development and the best way to learn chess, whilst making vague comparisons to poker development.
2. I move on to the theme of poker, by discussing the best way to learn poker.
3. I talk a little about my own poker story/development, and offer some thoughts on why certain poker players have become great.

Kinboshi's story is actually similar to my own. I never built up a rounded chess opening repertoire and instead relied on playing mainly obscure opening variants. For example I played the Scandinavian Defence (1... d5) in answer to 1 e4, and specialised in the various gambit lines that often resulted from that opening. I played the exchange variation of the Ruy Lopez as White and developed a very good understanding of the quiet endgame that usually resulted. I played a couple of esoteric Nimzowitsch variations of the Advance Variation against the French Defence (having read My System).

Adopting this policy allowed me to save time learning openings, and also allowed me to get into good positions in competitive games more often than perhaps my skill warranted. However, it was most probably detrimental to my overall chess development and held me back from becoming a stronger player. I would have been far better served playing all the openings in my first few years and only settling on a specialised opening repertoire when I had become a strong player. I would have been possibly sacrificing some short terms results for the long-term benefit of becoming a better, more rounded player with a deep understanding of the game. Instead - although this is an oversimplification - I became a player who won a lot of games simply through trapping his opponents into worse positions in the opening/early middle game stages.

If I had my time again I would learn chess the way I recommended in my earlier post. I would start out studying mainly the old classic games from hundreds of years ago, and would play mainly the classical openings, experimenting with a ton of different variations. So I would start off with playing many sacrificial/gambit lines as possible to develop my tactics (I'd start as a LAG). Then I would start to play more strategic stuff concentrating on direct central control (I'd become a TAG). Then I would move on to more hypermodern stuff (I'd go through a complex thought stage and my play might actually get worse for a while). Finally I'd move on to modern chess stuff in which all the previous ideas and dogmas of chess history have been assimilated, balanced and combined (I'd finally find my own style, and would become a strong player). Following the path of historical chess development is probably the best way to learn chess if you are just starting out.

You will notice I made some vague comparisons in brackets to poker styles. I think this is actually extremely apposite. The 'best way' to learn poker probably is to play a super LAG style, even though you are very likely to lose money doing so. Make all those insane bluffs and ridiculous hero calls and crazy floats. Play 65% of your hands and 3bet half of them. Try to win every pot you can. You will do your bollocks unless you run very well right at the start. But you will become a good player far more quickly because you will be constantly trying things out, getting into tough spots, and putting pressure on yourself to make difficult decisions. Eventually, you will learn that the vast majority of the plays you have been making are total spew and you will tighten up a lot, whilst still maintaining the ability to make a lot of aggressive moves in the right spots. You have become a TAG. But you will be a really good TAG because of all the practice and experience you got whilst spewing around in the early days.

Then what likely happens is that you start developing backdoor aggression into your game, and learn about the right spots to play a loose passive style in the early streets of a hand. You start becoming more comfortable flatting raises preflop rather than 3betting, including from the blinds, and don't feel you need the preflop initiative all the time in order to make a hand profitable. You learn to float more often, and to bluff catch effectively, even out of position. In many spots you are actually quite cally and passive in the early streets, although in theory this is always with a plan/reason... often one that involves later aggression. This is equivalent to the hypermodern period in chess development in which Black refused to directly compete for the center, and instead sought to control it indirectly - before launching a central attack later in the game. This is also the period in your poker development in which you may actually play worse for a little while. It is difficult to play without the initiative and at first you drift into being a combination of loose-passive and weak-tight (just as when you first start playing hypermodern openings you will likely just get run over by your opponent's central control until you learn to effectively fight back). But once you come out of this phase and learn these new difficult skills you become a much better player.

My own development in poker has a bit of a story in relation to this. When I first started out I was not a young kid, I already had a wife and kid and mortgage etc. And I had a very small bankroll. I was unable to risk going broke, so I had to play in the most low-variance style possible. I was the biggest nit ever... I had to be to survive; I didn't have the luxury of taking wild chances, making crazy plays, and trying for sick spin ups. So I was not able to start out the way I advise, playing like a LAG. I suspect my poker development has been massively held back due to this. Most of the great young players (Tricket etc) started out as LAGs, and usually very very spewy LAGs at that. Obviously variance caught up with most of them and 99% of them vanished whilst they were still poor players. But the ones that got lucky in the first few years have gone on to become truly great players, because they put themselves in all those situations early on. If I'd have done that then I'd be very unlikely to be still playing poker now because chances are I'd have gone broke repeatedly in the first few years and given up. But if I had have been one of the lucky ones who survived long enough to become a good player by having a few binks then I'd likely be a much, much stronger player now than I am.

Also, when I was grinding NLHE online my game deteriorated for a while when I watched a ton of A.E. Jones videos and listened to his audiobook. He advocated a lot of interesting plays, including in certain spots some passive stuff on early streets, playing without the initiative a lot etc. At first this made me play worse because I was misapplying it (it's a lot harder to play without the initiative) and ended up playing a combination of weak-tight and loose passive. Eventually I assimilated it into my game and I became a better player for it.

If poker wasn't played for money then everyone should start out playing as a LAG, playing most of their hands and running loads of crazy bluffs etc. They will learn and develop much faster. Unfortunately, poker IS played for money and so this is not really possible unless someone is playing merely for a hobby and can afford to lose consistently for their first few years whilst they learn. So the 'right' way of learning poker relies on the player just getting ridiculously lucky not to go broke before he has become any good. I have seen a TON of players play like this, and vanish within a year. I have seen a handful of players play like this, run well (often without realising it), and therefore survive long enough to become great players. Maybe the best way to start out is to grind out a profit in the cash games playing a super-tight TAG style (so you don't have to rely on getting lucky to stay in the game), and then enter a load of small buy in tournaments and play them like a maniac (to develop your skills).

Wow!! This post has become unbelieveably long. I started typing and didn't stop! Oh well, I'm not going to edit it. Well done if you have managed to read to the end. Not sure if it was worth it though lol!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 01, 2012, 04:02:59 PM
A very interesting post, honeybadger. Plenty to discuss there!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on September 01, 2012, 05:00:05 PM
Good post Mr Badger.  Always an interesting read.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 01, 2012, 10:21:03 PM
How about a story about me? Today’s word of the day is “COACHING”.

I have been fortunate to do some coaching in my time. The majority of it has been with 11-18 year olds but age really doesn’t matter. I have only worked with people who have at least a basic understanding of the game. By this, I mean they know the horse moves in an L-shape, they know you can castle both ways and don’t shout “Witchcraft!” when you take a pawn en passant. After that, it’s been a complete mixture of ability levels.

On the other side, I have been fortunate enough to have worked with two coaches. Once I had a decent grasp of the basics and had won a small junior comp, my dad approached an International Master who was there on the day of the tournament and asked whether he would be prepared to coach me. This would have been in around 1994. He was happy to do so and I went every week, with us spending an hour together at his house with my dad sitting in the corner watching. We would usually go through a game if I had played one that week, or otherwise it would be positions he’d set up and we would talk about how to play from there. Sometimes, there would be tactical (often checkmating) combinations to spot; other times, it would be just general themes to be aware of. We’d play a game against the clock and he would hammer me. After the session, my dad would stump up a crisp twenty pound note and we would be on our way.

We heard a couple of years later that there was a local, retired player who was now an excellent coach. He had an 18 month waiting list for players to get on, but was well worth it. He had two of the other top local junior players for my age group, I then discovered, and they could not sing his praises highly enough. Dad politely encouraged them to put in a good word for me and I managed to sneak into a higher place on the queue. When a gap opened up, I went to work with this gentleman. He was not as strong as the previous coach, but had still been a strong player in his day. He was in his 50s and had been a very strong junior player, up to playing in the Glorney Cup (a Home Nations tournament, where each selects their top 4 players under 18). He had then gone on to win the Major Open section at the British Championships (the top amateur tournament would be the best way I could describe it).

This chap wasn’t a bit like the previous one. He was a coach. A real coach. He started by asking about me: what books do you have? What openings do you play? Do you work well against the clock? Do you find visualizing a position easy (this is another way of saying “how many moves can you think ahead?”, but it questions more how well you can spot what else is going on)? Once I had answered and he had finished writing, we went through the openings I knew, move by move. He watched as I talked. After all this, he had a couple of pages of notes on me in his book. He asked if I had brought a game of mine with me and, as it happened, I had. We played through it. He stopped me after the fourth move, commenting that there was an improvement to what I had played. He stood up, walked to his bookcase, produced a green book that looked like Methusela had written it in his 20s and showed me the variation I had played. The author specifically commented that it was outmoded and that a different move was recommended.

I had the cheek to ask why. This is what really makes a coach. He closed the book and said “you tell me”. So we sat and discussed it. He listened to me piece together an argument, steered me with some careful questions and walked me gently to the correct answer. We played through the rest of the game, him making a couple of suggestions as we went, keeping the form to me giving all the answers, with him nodding like Mr Miyagi.

At the end of the session (2.5 hours was how he liked to do it, with a break for tea and biscuits in the middle), he went over what we had covered. I agreed. Dad paid him seven English pounds. Yes. He did it out of love for the game (there’s a catchphrase in their somewhere, CambridgeAlex), and as he did 3 sessions a day, the money covered his shopping bill and he was happy.

I went back next week and he suggested we play through a game from an old master – Alekhine. He explained that he was the founder of the modern way of playing and we spent an hour and a half going through one of the games. He stopped after a few moves to let me work out the next move (making sure I understood why I was making it). His questions challenged my thinking process – “what other moves are available?” “what was the purpose of Black’s last move?” “have you completed your development?” “should you attack with just pieces or do you need the help of a few pawns, too?” – and slowly I began to get into Alekhine’s head.

After a few weeks of those games, we worked on the tactical side of my game, which I had a talent for, but it was very raw (“spewy” might be a suitably pokerish adjective). We played through positions and, again, he coached me into understanding when the time was right to get aggressive and when a more measured response was appropriate. He showed me, with the Alekhine games in particular, that attacking is sometimes a means to an end – you can force the other guy to make weaknesses in his position and then all you do is swap the pieces off and win with a better endgame.

When I was deemed ready, we started on Tal games. Kid and Sweetshop would probably be fair. I used to come out of the sessions with a head that made me thing I’d eaten a tub of ice cream really quickly, but I couldn’t wait til the next session, two weeks later.

As the months went by, we started on Rubenstein, Petrosian and Fischer: the masters of the quieter, positional games. This opened my eyes to a different way of playing.

In the other hour or so each session, he gave me an opening repertoire. I took a purple A5 notebook in and he gave me a list of openings. We played through them and, when I was happy, I wrote them down. Usually 15ish moves of Black and White and a couple of variations.

It wasn’t long before I had a sizeable ‘database’. When I went back with a game, if I had deviated from the book line (let’s be honest: if I had forgotten the right move), he would say “what do your notes say?” and we’d have a look. There was never any shame in it; he knew I was keen to learn. When I came to a lesson bored with an opening, we’d learn something else and that would be added to the notes.

He retired a couple of years ago, now in his sixties. We are still in touch. He completely shaped the way I think about chess and the way I coach others. There is an enormous difference between a great player and a great coach.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 01, 2012, 10:41:02 PM
Akiba Rubenstein

(http://www.chessgames.com/portraits/akibarubinstein.jpg)

He brought us a puzzle once. White to play and mate in 4.
(http://www.chessbase.com/puzzle/images/puzzle20-01.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: millidonk on September 02, 2012, 11:27:13 AM
I set my search rating to try and only play people who are better than me but I was getting thrashed quite often tbh. Put it back down to play people the same level as me and my record now stands at victory within 7 moves. wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii. Also downloaded Chessmaster 10 so will be giving that a go whenever I get a chance.

http://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=354900787 (http://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=354900787)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 02, 2012, 11:49:22 AM
I set my search rating to try and only play people who are better than me but I was getting thrashed quite often tbh. Put it back down to play people the same level as me and my record now stands at victory within 7 moves. wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii. Also downloaded Chessmaster 10 so will be giving that a go whenever I get a chance.

http://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=354900787 (http://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=354900787)

Yes, well done.

If you want to beat better players, you might want to shore up the openings a bit: develop your pieces first and leave Her Majesty at home. 2.h5 is a bit of a time-waste and, although it doesn't immediately bring you problems, you'll find yourself a move behind in your development and wishing you hadn't played it.

Love the attacking, tho.





Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on September 02, 2012, 11:51:41 AM
Akiba Rubenstein

(http://www.chessgames.com/portraits/akibarubinstein.jpg)

He brought us a puzzle once. White to play and mate in 4.
(http://www.chessbase.com/puzzle/images/puzzle20-01.jpg)

 Took me bloody ages, but got there in the end. Was looking for a mate with the rook down h, but black always had an escape.

Eventually went for a more radical approach, and there's the answer!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Honeybadger on September 02, 2012, 11:52:50 AM
Akiba Rubenstein

(http://www.chessgames.com/portraits/akibarubinstein.jpg)

He brought us a puzzle once. White to play and mate in 4.
(http://www.chessbase.com/puzzle/images/puzzle20-01.jpg)

Wow!! I solved this one in my head. First time I've ever done that; I'm usually useless at chess puzzles.

At first I assumed it would be some sort of mate with the rook on the h-file, forcing Black to take the h2 pawn due to zugswang, and having the blacks pawns block in the King. But I couldn't make it work any way I tried. I was just about to go get a chess board and have a proper go when suddenly something flashed in my brain and I saw it. Obviously once you see the first move the rest is simple since it is forced.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Honeybadger on September 02, 2012, 11:53:58 AM
Wow Kinboshi... we must have been doing it at exactly the same time, and having exactly the same thought process. Gutted that you beat me to posting by one minute!!!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on September 02, 2012, 11:59:08 AM
I probably started earlier! I was also going to get my chess board, but only know where the pieces are and haven't seen the board since I moved a year ago.

Scarily similar thought processes though. I'd be afraid and disappointed if I were you :D


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: millidonk on September 02, 2012, 12:00:16 PM
I set my search rating to try and only play people who are better than me but I was getting thrashed quite often tbh. Put it back down to play people the same level as me and my record now stands at victory within 7 moves. wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii. Also downloaded Chessmaster 10 so will be giving that a go whenever I get a chance.

http://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=354900787 (http://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=354900787)

Yes, well done.

If you want to beat better players, you might want to shore up the openings a bit: develop your pieces first and leave Her Majesty at home. 2.h5 is a bit of a time-waste and, although it doesn't immediately bring you problems, you'll find yourself a move behind in your development and wishing you hadn't played it.

Love the attacking, tho.





haha, thanks for being so polite. Yea, realise my openings are terrible, there is no rhyme or reason really. Most of what I try to do is just counter-intuitive. The amount of times I get myself into tough spots or think to myself "why did i just do that" is a joke. Hence the acquiring of chessmaster to iron out some of these kinks. As many have said, <3 this Fred.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Honeybadger on September 02, 2012, 12:08:26 PM
I probably started earlier! I was also going to get my chess board, but only know where the pieces are and haven't seen the board since I moved a year ago.

Scarily similar thought processes though. I'd be afraid and disappointed if I were you :D

I think the thought process we both clearly went through makes it almost certain to discover the real solution. Because in examining the original idea of mate down the h-file we already worked on the theme of the White King being placed on the f-file so as to block off the Black King's escape, and of course we knew that it would have to be some sort of zugswang motif to enable the final mate (although it turned out to be a much different one to that which we were both originally examining).

I am pretty pleased with myself since I can never do these things in my head - and not even that often on a board either. It is a bit scary that we were clearly simultaneously thinking the exact same thing though. Weird.

Took me less than 10 minutes, and I was 6-tabling PLO at the same time so not 100% focussed on it! Sounds like a brag, but just stating the truth ;)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on September 02, 2012, 12:09:38 PM
Millidonk, one piece of chess advice I was given very early on (and it goes for poker too) is "a bad plan is better than no plan at all". Wood-pushing (making moves with no tactics or strategy behind what you're doing is going to hurt your chances of winning.

So have a plan, change it where necessary, and try to improve on it.

Could be as simple as "want to develop my pieces and get my king safely castled" or "get the minor pieces out and focused on an attack on the weak c-pawn" or even "I don't like it when I can't get my bishops active, so make sure I get them developed early to help my attack".

As Tal said, read up on some openings and have a repertoire of openings that have been well studied in your armoury. At least it'll mean you won't be at a huge disadvantage going into the middle game.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on September 02, 2012, 12:15:34 PM
I probably started earlier! I was also going to get my chess board, but only know where the pieces are and haven't seen the board since I moved a year ago.

Scarily similar thought processes though. I'd be afraid and disappointed if I were you :D

I think the thought process we both clearly went through makes it almost certain to discover the real solution. Because in examining the original idea of mate down the h-file we already worked on the theme of the White King being placed on the f-file so as to block off the Black King's escape, and of course we knew that it would have to be some sort of zugswang motif to enable the final mate (although it turned out to be a much different one to that which we were both originally examining).

I am pretty pleased with myself since I can never do these things in my head - and not even that often on a board either. It is a bit scary that we were clearly simultaneously thinking the exact same thing though. Weird.

Took me less than 10 minutes, and I was 6-tabling PLO at the same time so not 100% focussed on it! Sounds like a brag, but just stating the truth ;)

Took me 15 minutes, but I was watching the missus getting dressed and walking round in her underwear, so wasn't fully focused either (thin brag).

My focus was on the black king being blocked in by two pawns on g, and somehow the king having to take white's pawn on h3 allowing the rook to take the h-pawn for mate. This was a blind alley obviously, but think I got a mate in 6 this way, but that wasn't the puzzle.

Enough of the mental gymnastics, off for a 15-mile+ run now...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: millidonk on September 02, 2012, 12:21:05 PM
Millidonk, one piece of chess advice I was given very early on (and it goes for poker too) is "a bad plan is better than no plan at all". Wood-pushing (making moves with no tactics or strategy behind what you're doing is going to hurt your chances of winning.

So have a plan, change it where necessary, and try to improve on it.

Could be as simple as "want to develop my pieces and get my king safely castled" or "get the minor pieces out and focused on an attack on the weak c-pawn" or even "I don't like it when I can't get my bishops active, so make sure I get them developed early to help my attack".

As Tal said, read up on some openings and have a repertoire of openings that have been well studied in your armoury. At least it'll mean you won't be at a huge disadvantage going into the middle game.


Yea, I always have a plan when I play poker. When I play chess I kind of go through the motions with my openings then when there is space I start with my plans. I am aware this is obviously a terrible strategy.

One thing I have noticed is that probably about 75% of my wins have been against people casteling. I try and avoid it most of the time. It just doesn't make sense to me, obviously freeing up the rook is helpful but pinning the king in the corner just seems terrible.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 02, 2012, 12:21:14 PM
Millidonk, one piece of chess advice I was given very early on (and it goes for poker too) is "a bad plan is better than no plan at all". Wood-pushing (making moves with no tactics or strategy behind what you're doing is going to hurt your chances of winning.

So have a plan, change it where necessary, and try to improve on it.

Could be as simple as "want to develop my pieces and get my king safely castled" or "get the minor pieces out and focused on an attack on the weak c-pawn" or even "I don't like it when I can't get my bishops active, so make sure I get them developed early to help my attack".

As Tal said, read up on some openings and have a repertoire of openings that have been well studied in your armoury. At least it'll mean you won't be at a huge disadvantage going into the middle game.


Wise words.

I'd go as far as to say don't force a plan until you've nearly completed your development. Whatever you decide to do (attack the kingside, make a break through the centre, swap the pieces off and outplay him in the endgame...), you'll need your pieces out.

A young lad once asked me while I was doing a session in a school "why do you need to develop?".

I said "picture the scene: it's November 1917. The Brits are in a trench in a dark, muddy part of Belgium. The Captain assembles the boys as shellfire rains overhead. "Right-ho lads. Orders are in from H.Q. Watson, you go over the top. Everyone else, stay here and play cards." And off goes Watson with his Tommy gun..."

It's an absurd example, but why would you attack without your full artillery?



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 02, 2012, 12:24:05 PM
Millidonk, if you didn't castle against me, I would open up the centre by exchanging pawns in the middle. With my rook on e1, pointing at your king, it would start to get pretty unpleasant.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: millidonk on September 02, 2012, 12:27:07 PM
Millidonk, if you didn't castle against me, I would open up the centre by exchanging pawns in the middle. With my rook on e1, pointing at your king, it would start to get pretty unpleasant.

Note to self. Incorporate castleing into my game.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on September 02, 2012, 12:28:09 PM
Millidonk, one piece of chess advice I was given very early on (and it goes for poker too) is "a bad plan is better than no plan at all". Wood-pushing (making moves with no tactics or strategy behind what you're doing is going to hurt your chances of winning.

So have a plan, change it where necessary, and try to improve on it.

Could be as simple as "want to develop my pieces and get my king safely castled" or "get the minor pieces out and focused on an attack on the weak c-pawn" or even "I don't like it when I can't get my bishops active, so make sure I get them developed early to help my attack".

As Tal said, read up on some openings and have a repertoire of openings that have been well studied in your armoury. At least it'll mean you won't be at a huge disadvantage going into the middle game.


Yea, I always have a plan when I play poker. When I play chess I kind of go through the motions with my openings then when there is space I start with my plans. I am aware this is obviously a terrible strategy.

One thing I have noticed is that probably about 75% of my wins have been against people casteling. I try and avoid it most of the time. It just doesn't make sense to me, obviously freeing up the rook is helpful but pinning the king in the corner just seems terrible.

A castled king is usually the safest king. Harder to get to than one in the middle, like you say it helps get your rook into play as well. If you elect not to castle, you have to be prepared to defend from attacks down both flanks and the centre. All at the same time as trying to launch your own artillery.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on September 02, 2012, 01:14:52 PM
... my record now stands at victory within 7 moves. wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii....

How many games you win and how good the people who you beat are is what is important - how quickly you win the game is irrelevant and if you're focussed on that you're just more likely to skip over some development which is going to hamper your game whenever you don't tie it up quickly.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: AdamM on September 03, 2012, 08:09:31 AM
Lurker in the thread coming out.

I'd really like to start playing a bit more seriously, but there's never time :(
I used to play as a kids, then after a break, had a regular game with a close friend of a similar standard.
I never really studied the game at all, rather, was aware that I was supposed to plan ahead and so worked it out as best I could.
Pretty much entirely self taught, so there'll be massive holes in my game.
That said, I don't think I'm terrible. Just uncultured :)

When I get time, I'll pick up a few of the books recommended and do a bit of reading.

One thing spurring me into action to improve, is I've taught my 7 year old how the pieces move and the rules, but I don't want to fill him with the bad habits I've doubtless got.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 03, 2012, 09:13:44 AM
Lurker in the thread coming out.

I'd really like to start playing a bit more seriously, but there's never time :(
I used to play as a kids, then after a break, had a regular game with a close friend of a similar standard.
I never really studied the game at all, rather, was aware that I was supposed to plan ahead and so worked it out as best I could.
Pretty much entirely self taught, so there'll be massive holes in my game.
That said, I don't think I'm terrible. Just uncultured :)

When I get time, I'll pick up a few of the books recommended and do a bit of reading.

One thing spurring me into action to improve, is I've taught my 7 year old how the pieces move and the rules, but I don't want to fill him with the bad habits I've doubtless got.

Hi Adam

Welcome to the thread.

The chess season is just about to start. There will be at least one club local to you (if you are in or near a city, there will be a few) and that club will have at least one club night a week. League matches tend to be every 2-3 weeks and last one evening (7ish to 10ish). Most are in licenced premises these days.

A club is a great place to start. Much as a bricks and mortar casino is a bit daunting but within 10 minutes you realise it isn't full of cowboys in ten-gallon hats that call everyone "boy", a chess club will welcome anyone with a basic knowledge of how the pieces move and be glad to have some friendly games with you.

You can take your 7 year old with you for an hour or two if you like. There are plenty of people his age playing chess in the UK.It's a great time to learn the game, while the brain is still developing.

As I have posted before, see if there is a tournament local to you on the English Chess Federation's website and pop along to watch. All ages, all abilities on view.

We all started somewhere.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: AdamM on September 03, 2012, 12:26:23 PM
I did think about a club.
Trouble is, my week already looks like this (on top of a stressful job):
Monday - Junior Cricket
Tuesday - U8 football training
Wednesday - bit of Web dev for UK Poker Calendar ( ;) )
Thursday - Pub poker night
Friday - glass of wine or three :)
Saturday  - U8 Football training in the morning / DIY in the afternoon / Gigging with a band (starting this month)
Sunday - U8s match in the morning / Band practice or DIY in the afternoon

I might do a bit of research though and if there's something Mon / Wed when cricket finishes, I might be able to shuffle stuff around.
I think it's good to balance the physical stuff he's doing with more cerebral activities like reading / Chess / Poker (he's a killer heads up)

Wish I could get my daughter interested in any thing, but she's 12 going on 18 and sliding into teenagerness at a rate of knots :)



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 04, 2012, 12:52:42 AM
There are always hight attrition levels in junior chess at about that age for girls and a couple of years later for boys.

It likely wouldn't be every week, but maybe one night, if you do get a free evening, it might make a nice change.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 04, 2012, 01:04:34 AM
Quick one for you all: the new international ratings are out for September (currently come out every two months, but shortly every month).

Magnus Carlsen extends his lead and is getting closer and closer to the magic number Kasparov peaked at.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8451

England now has 4 players in the top hundred men for the first time I can remember. Michael Adams has been as high as 4th I believe, but is now one of a group of players from about 15-35 in the rankings that swap around regularly, as form spurts and slumps come along.

You might enjoy - or rather not - the ages of these people. Scary.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 04, 2012, 10:48:30 PM
Hopefully I have got this to work...here is a game I played last night. Details to follow. I have the white pieces.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 04, 2012, 11:06:34 PM
I don't have the technical wizardry of many of the people who access this forum, so, if you are more skilled, by all means convert this to a more accessible format and reattach it. It is simply a copy of the scoresheet I took last night in the game, lifted from a Print Screen into a Word doc.

You will need to understand basic chess notation, but I hope it's reasonably self-explanatory if you aren't sure. Capital letters denote pieces moving; lowercase are the coordinates of the square it moves to. If it is just a coordinate, it is a pawn moving to that square. If there is an "x", it is denoting a capture, so BxB would be a bishop taking a bishop.

o-o is castling kingside (remember that, Millidonk :) ). o-o-o would be castling queenside.

The game itself was the annual friendly our club, South Birmingham, plays against our local rivals, Olton. It is used as a warm-up for the league season, as most people haven't played over the summer. I was on board 9 yesterday and played a player who was a little below me in rating, but still competent enough. I played pretty well, if a touch rustily. He made a number of basic positional errors, which made my game significantly easier.

Take a look at Black’s pawn structure after the first 4 moves. He has put the pawns on Black squares and, as they are fixed there, the light squared bishop is the only one likely to get any room in the game, so that’s the one he wants to keep. He would be quite happy to swap the dark squared bishop off, because conversely I want to keep that one of mine. So, when he plays 5.Bg4, he plays right into my hands. As the game progresses, you will see that I am able to take advantage of his weak white squares.

There was nothing flamboyant in this game, really. I essentially keep him cramped and slowly come forward with my pieces. When he draws all his pieces to the kingside, I have positioned my queen to hit those lovely white squares on a diagonal and his pieces are a bit stuck. So, when he exchanges queens to free his pieces up on move 23, I capitalize by opening the queenside and taking advantage of his lack of defence over there. This was a theme of Alekhine’s games: he dragged his opponent’s pieces over to one side of the board and, because Alekhine had all his pieces well placed, he was able to switch his attack to the undefended side.

On move 30, I play a nice tactic of swapping a pawn of mine on d6 for one of his on g5. The idea is that I open the d-file for my rook and he is cut in two. He eventually resigned, although he played on for a little longer than he needed to, as the position was lost after about 35 moves. I wasn’t going to lose it from there. 

Better pieces made all the difference in this game.

If you want a bit of fun, by all means put the game into a computer and see what Mr Shredder, Mr Fritz and any others you have think of how I played. You will see that I don’t play all the best moves, but I generally maintain an edge from pretty early on. At even a decent level, that’s often all that is required. It is easy to look at how amazingly Carlsen and the others play the game, but there aren’t many out there who can get to that level!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 06, 2012, 02:10:39 AM
Playchess.com now has a version for Android. I have just downloaded it and am very pleased with it.

It is an excellent site in desktop for playing online. The mobile version seems absolutely fine, too.

The software is free but it costs £7 for a 12 month subscription to play (so it's £7 then!)

It automatically saves your games and keeps score for you. You play with a clock in full sight. Nice and straightforward stuff.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 06, 2012, 08:21:24 PM
While the rest of the world is playing in the Olympiad, Magnus Carlsen has other engagements. He has been in New York, causing as much of a stir as the world's number one chess player causes in New York.

The Huffington Post has been keeping an eye on proceedings and has written this report: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/lubomir-kavalek/magnus-carlsen-storms-new_b_1855241.html?icid=hp_search_art

You might like the story of Kenneth Rogoff, a chess Grandmaster in the 70s of some repute. He didn't pick up a piece for 30 years after that, becoming an elite economist. Part of Carlsen's visit involved a friendly game against Mr Rogoff.

(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2012-09-04-rogoffcarlsen.jpeg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 09, 2012, 12:13:40 PM
The last round of the Olympiad has started and it could barely be closer, with three teams level on 17 match points in the Open section. China have a slight edge on tie breaks, but have the toughest game on paper today, against a strong Ukraine side.

Should they fail to win, or should they not win well, this would open the door to Armenia (led by the top rated player in the field, number 3, Lev Aronian), who play Hungary or top seeds Russia, who would expect to beat Germany, especially on the bottom two boards.

In the women's event, top seeds China are ahead by the tiniest of margins of Russia and both will expect to win their games today comfortably, so the question is how much they win by.

England has disappointed a little this time around, with losses to Vietnam and the Philippines spoiling an otherwise solid (if unspectacular) tournament.

Scotland and Ireland have held their own, while Wales are a little below their seeding.

Bottom of the table (apart from Congo, who withdrew after one game) is Burundi.

Here is the full list: http://results.chessolympiadistanbul.com/tnr77681.aspx?art=0&rd=10&lan=1&flag=30&zeilen=99999



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 09, 2012, 04:31:35 PM
http://www.chessolympiadistanbul.com/en/component/content/article/2-news-en/274-armenia-russia-win-gold-medals-in-the-40th-chess-olympiad.html

The results are just in...

China, going into the round marginally in front, lost to Ukraine (losing on boards 1 and 4; the other two drawn). Meanwhile, Russia and Armenia both managed to win their matches and, despite Russia winning 3.5-0.5 and Armenia winning 2.5-1.5, it was Armenia who claimed the Gold medal, by virtue of a complicated tie-break system.

In the women's event, China could only manage the silver again, after a storming 4-0 victory by the Russians over Kazakhstan.

A possible caption comp to follow...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 09, 2012, 04:39:45 PM
(http://www.chessolympiadistanbul.com/images/stories/news_photos/Armenia.jpg)

Lev Aronian and his Armenian team getting overexcited

(http://www.chessolympiadistanbul.com/images/stories/news_photos/Round_11_Grischuk.jpg)

Part-time poker player, Alexander Grischuk, was unable to triple-rangemerge Germany's Igor Khenkin and had to settle for a draw.




Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 09, 2012, 04:46:34 PM
(http://www.chessolympiadistanbul.com/images/stories/news_photos/Round_11_China_-_Ukraine.jpg)

Wang Hao and Vassily Ivanchuk (known by his friends as Chucky), avert their gaze from a pretty standard Nimzo-Indian (Nimzo short for Nimzowitsch; Indian refers to the first pawn move being only one square)

Not a great caption, I agree.

Please come up with better!



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 10, 2012, 09:47:46 PM
A silly little one for you.

Opening theory sometimes means you have to move the pieces in a specific order, else you fall foul of a cheeky trap.

The openings that start 1.e4 have more of these than 1.d4, largely because the games tend to be sharper and more open (you have exposed the king slightly more, after all).

This is a trap in one of the most common openings in the playbook: The Ruy Lopez. It is quaintly called The Noah's Ark Trap

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KskXvXxlkCM


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on September 10, 2012, 10:00:40 PM
 ;D

Email Notice at 20:31 "Your opponent MrSayNoMore has offered you a draw"
Email Notice at 20:32 "Your opponent MrSayNoMore has offered you a draw"
Email Notice at 20:33 "Your opponent MrSayNoMore has offered you a draw"

Email Notice at 20:52
"Game Over!
Your game with MrSayNoMore has ended.
...
[Termination "beloved_ltd won by checkmate"]"

ironically when he offered the draw I think it really looked like the draw was the final outcome, but when it swung decisively to me - he completely refused to resign and made me do all the boring work of finishing him off


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 10, 2012, 10:03:51 PM
One of the few genuine "angles" in amateur chess is offering a draw when you think you are losing (but you hope your opponent hasn't realised he's winning!)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on September 10, 2012, 10:16:06 PM
I had Q and 2 pawns and he had Q and 1 pawn - but he had the initiative, I think he could have forced the draw by continually putting me in check without ever making a move to try and win it.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 10, 2012, 10:20:46 PM
When you have fewer pawns, it is almost always a good idea to keep the major pieces (queen and rooks) on the board, as it gives you much better drawing chances: not only can you pick up the material deficit, you can get perpetual checks (even checkmate chances).

The trick is always to be aggressive, even when you only want a draw. The opponent then has to defend and your positional advantage often makes up for the material deficit.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 11, 2012, 09:38:10 PM
This evening, our old friend, Mr Blackburne, teaches us why you should never play silly openings. The opponent was a nobody and the chess records are sufficiently brutal (or kind, depending on your point of view) to refer to him only by NN, which (along with N and AN Other) is a standard nom de plume for an unknown opponent.

Don't attack with just the queen or you'll find yourself in trouble!

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1029000

Note the comments on the game are from the great man himself. Did you see the finish?

Every time Blackburne makes a move, he develops another piece. Soon, white has only a queen out and has castled, while Black has everything pointing at His Majesty.

You can just see Blackburne stroking his beard, nursing a single malt...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Skippy on September 12, 2012, 11:40:57 PM
I don't know if you have seen ChessFanatic's videos on YouTube. He mostly plays blitz and lightning chess, whilst shouting loudly over the top. Very good. He #lovethegame, no doubt.

Here he is playing about 15 games in 30 minutes. He nearly always wins, of course.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il0mwJUbnu0


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 13, 2012, 08:37:08 AM
Was not aware of this chap. Enthusiasm ftw, it seems.

I played my first league match of the season last night. As we have two teams in the division, we must face each other first game.

I knew who my opponent would be (all six players are ranked and your best plays their best etc) and that he likes to prepare openings if he knows what his opponent plays as white.

So, I spent 15 mins looking at an opening I have never played in competitive chess: the English opening. It starts 1.c4 (pawn to queen bishop 4). I had a few lines prepared by looking at some master games. I knew that there were no immediate dangers if I played solid, developing chess, and so it proved. I got into a normal game without getting into any prepared traps of his.

I went on to win the game.

I'm a believer of adjusting to your opponent. Not everyone is in chess tho.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 13, 2012, 09:57:31 PM
A nice, synoptic article on the Olympiad:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8473

It includes five of the most interesting games of the week and they are helpfully annotated by a grandmaster.

Some details of the victorious Armenian team and the surprisingly high performing US team, the latter of which features the Wayne-Mardlesque Geta Kamsky:

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/istanbul/kamsky02.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 13, 2012, 10:01:43 PM
Just me, right?

(http://www.pdc.tv/javaImages/3e/c8/0,,10180~11061310,00.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 15, 2012, 04:56:56 PM
A preview of the latest major competition for you this afternoon: the Chess Masters Series Final. Chessbase.com reports: Five of the world's best players will be there: World Champion Vishy Anand, world number one Magnus Carlsen, number two Levon Aronian, number seven Sergey Karjakin and eight Fabiano Caruana. Joining them will be the ever creative Paco Vallejo. The double round robin is split between São Paulo, Brazil, and Bilbao, Spain. It starts on September 23 and is played in a glass cube.

It is the chess equivalent of the ATP Finals in Tennis, where those who have performed best in a series of tournaments are invited to compete in the final stage. This year’s features the world numbers 1, 2, 6, 7 and 8, along with the Spanish host’s pick: Francisco Vallejo-Pons (known as “Paco”).

Half the tournament is played in Brazil, with everyone then moving to Spain to finish the job.

Aside from the talent on display, one of the interesting features of this tournament is that the games are played in an almost ITV-esque glass cube. It is essentially soundproof, so the players are largely unaware of any crisp-munching, boiled sweet-twizzling, jumper knitting kibitzers.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/18/Bilbao_2008_chess1.jpg/220px-Bilbao_2008_chess1.jpg)

(http://www.bilbaomastersfinal.com/wp-content/themes/twentyten-bilbao-2012/images/intro_04.jpg)

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2009/events/bilbao17.jpg)

The rest of us can only dream of such serenity!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on September 15, 2012, 09:06:36 PM
Was not aware of this chap. Enthusiasm ftw, it seems.

I played my first league match of the season last night. As we have two teams in the division, we must face each other first game.

I knew who my opponent would be (all six players are ranked and your best plays their best etc) and that he likes to prepare openings if he knows what his opponent plays as white.

So, I spent 15 mins looking at an opening I have never played in competitive chess: the English opening. It starts 1.c4 (pawn to queen bishop 4). I had a few lines prepared by looking at some master games. I knew that there were no immediate dangers if I played solid, developing chess, and so it proved. I got into a normal game without getting into any prepared traps of his.

I went on to win the game.

I'm a believer of adjusting to your opponent. Not everyone is in chess tho.

Love the English. Added it to my arsenal, when my coach said I needed alternatives to d4 as white. Not sure it was exactly what he had in mind though :D


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 17, 2012, 08:33:59 AM
Was not aware of this chap. Enthusiasm ftw, it seems.

I played my first league match of the season last night. As we have two teams in the division, we must face each other first game.

I knew who my opponent would be (all six players are ranked and your best plays their best etc) and that he likes to prepare openings if he knows what his opponent plays as white.

So, I spent 15 mins looking at an opening I have never played in competitive chess: the English opening. It starts 1.c4 (pawn to queen bishop 4). I had a few lines prepared by looking at some master games. I knew that there were no immediate dangers if I played solid, developing chess, and so it proved. I got into a normal game without getting into any prepared traps of his.

I went on to win the game.

I'm a believer of adjusting to your opponent. Not everyone is in chess tho.

Love the English. Added it to my arsenal, when my coach said I needed alternatives to d4 as white. Not sure it was exactly what he had in mind though :D

The thing about 1.c4 is that there are a few variations where you end up in positions that are very familiar to 1.d4 players. This can be advantageous, if you know your opponent won'tknow the black end very well (because he normally plats something else; perhaps something sharper). But it alternatively ruins the surprise if he is happy in that position.

1.e4 is typically much sharper but there's a fair bit of learning involved to feel comfortable playing it as white.

I'm someone who used to play 1.f4 as white.

I changed to 1.d4 and played that for about 8 years, pretty much exclusively.

Then I has a coach-induced change like you, but to 1.e4.

I now play 1.e4 or 1.d4 depending on the weather, how I'm feeling, the sort of game I want, my opponent, boxers or briefs...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on September 17, 2012, 08:48:34 AM

Half the tournament is played in Brazil, with everyone then moving to Spain to finish the job.

That's a bit inconvenient, is it not?

Presumably it is due to commercial/monetary matters?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 17, 2012, 10:01:47 AM

Half the tournament is played in Brazil, with everyone then moving to Spain to finish the job.

That's a bit inconvenient, is it not?

Presumably it is due to commercial/monetary matters?

In short, yes.

It's the only tournament that does that. I think another part of it is ensuring that there is a tournament in South America. Just as FIFA likes to spread the love in football, so FIDE likes to spread the love in chess.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: smashedagain on September 17, 2012, 10:29:18 AM
Is there much prize money or sponsorship in chess, seems excessive to have to play in Brazil then Spain.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on September 17, 2012, 10:43:03 AM
Is there much prize money or sponsorship in chess, seems excessive to have to play in Brazil then Spain.

You are forgetting something Jase. It's like poker - ALL Brazilian & Spanish players are totally crap. Apparently.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: smashedagain on September 17, 2012, 10:59:28 AM
Is there much prize money or sponsorship in chess, seems excessive to have to play in Brazil then Spain.

You are forgetting something Jase. It's like poker - ALL Brazilian & Spanish players are totally crap. Apparently.
:)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 17, 2012, 12:26:02 PM
The last World Championship has a prize fund of $2.55m, which was split 60/40 between first and second.

The biggest comps will be >€100k prize pools between 6-10 players. The Bilbao/ sao Paolo comp will be much bigger, I expect.

The big money is in sponsorship. There are some big markets out there: Russia, India and China in particular.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on September 17, 2012, 03:15:02 PM
Was not aware of this chap. Enthusiasm ftw, it seems.

I played my first league match of the season last night. As we have two teams in the division, we must face each other first game.

I knew who my opponent would be (all six players are ranked and your best plays their best etc) and that he likes to prepare openings if he knows what his opponent plays as white.

So, I spent 15 mins looking at an opening I have never played in competitive chess: the English opening. It starts 1.c4 (pawn to queen bishop 4). I had a few lines prepared by looking at some master games. I knew that there were no immediate dangers if I played solid, developing chess, and so it proved. I got into a normal game without getting into any prepared traps of his.

I went on to win the game.

I'm a believer of adjusting to your opponent. Not everyone is in chess tho.

Love the English. Added it to my arsenal, when my coach said I needed alternatives to d4 as white. Not sure it was exactly what he had in mind though :D

The thing about 1.c4 is that there are a few variations where you end up in positions that are very familiar to 1.d4 players. This can be advantageous, if you know your opponent won'tknow the black end very well (because he normally plats something else; perhaps something sharper). But it alternatively ruins the surprise if he is happy in that position.

1.e4 is typically much sharper but there's a fair bit of learning involved to feel comfortable playing it as white.

I'm someone who used to play 1.f4 as white.

I changed to 1.d4 and played that for about 8 years, pretty much exclusively.

Then I has a coach-induced change like you, but to 1.e4.

I now play 1.e4 or 1.d4 depending on the weather, how I'm feeling, the sort of game I want, my opponent, boxers or briefs...

1. f4...

Loved that too when I was being very mischievous and wanted to annoy my coach. Not many know how to play against it as black, but you have to really know it well as white to not get yourself into a pickle.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Longy on September 17, 2012, 03:33:10 PM
So how many people approximately worldwide are making a living out of purely playing chess?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 17, 2012, 05:29:53 PM
So how many people approximately worldwide are making a living out of purely playing chess?

Tough question for an outsider to answer!

I believe that there are about 5 people in England making a professional living out of it. They would have travel and expenses covered, with a possible appearance fee to play in tournaments. Then they would get whatever they won on top.

Any Grandmaster or International Master would get a nice supplement to their regular income by coaching, books, DVDs, plus weekend local tournaments (expenses etc covered).

Most of the top 100 in the world will be professionals. Luke McShane is an anomoly as he works in the City.

Beyond that, it would be more varied.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 17, 2012, 05:34:52 PM
Was not aware of this chap. Enthusiasm ftw, it seems.

I played my first league match of the season last night. As we have two teams in the division, we must face each other first game.

I knew who my opponent would be (all six players are ranked and your best plays their best etc) and that he likes to prepare openings if he knows what his opponent plays as white.

So, I spent 15 mins looking at an opening I have never played in competitive chess: the English opening. It starts 1.c4 (pawn to queen bishop 4). I had a few lines prepared by looking at some master games. I knew that there were no immediate dangers if I played solid, developing chess, and so it proved. I got into a normal game without getting into any prepared traps of his.

I went on to win the game.

I'm a believer of adjusting to your opponent. Not everyone is in chess tho.

Love the English. Added it to my arsenal, when my coach said I needed alternatives to d4 as white. Not sure it was exactly what he had in mind though :D

The thing about 1.c4 is that there are a few variations where you end up in positions that are very familiar to 1.d4 players. This can be advantageous, if you know your opponent won'tknow the black end very well (because he normally plats something else; perhaps something sharper). But it alternatively ruins the surprise if he is happy in that position.

1.e4 is typically much sharper but there's a fair bit of learning involved to feel comfortable playing it as white.

I'm someone who used to play 1.f4 as white.

I changed to 1.d4 and played that for about 8 years, pretty much exclusively.

Then I has a coach-induced change like you, but to 1.e4.

I now play 1.e4 or 1.d4 depending on the weather, how I'm feeling, the sort of game I want, my opponent, boxers or briefs...

1. f4...

Loved that too when I was being very mischievous and wanted to annoy my coach. Not many know how to play against it as black, but you have to really know it well as white to not get yourself into a pickle.

From's Gambit is a very sharp response (1.f4 e5) and you have to be boned up on it or else you'll find yourself in all kinds of bother.

It's not one I'd advise, as it's always better to start out with an opening that helps you master the basics.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 19, 2012, 01:11:56 AM
If there were a Blonde forum for all the chess world champions over the years, the top poster on PHA would be Dr Max Euwe. Euwe isn’t a household name to many, but he was not only world champion but also a truly great theoretician.

(http://www.rhc-eindhoven.nl/upload/verhalenbank_poost/Wereldkampioenschap-schaken.rien_.jpg)

Dr Euwe was born in 1901 near Amsterdam. He had a talent for mathematics and his studies led him into forging a career, obtaining a doctorate and going on to teach. He published a paper, proving that an infinite number of positions was possible in chess, using a principle I can’t get even close to getting my head around (feel free to explain this to me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thue%E2%80%93Morse_sequence).

He won the Dutch Championship in 1921 and was world amateur champion in 1928. What was particularly interesting about Euwe’s chess career was that he played much less often than others, as he had a full time job and a family. He played the very best in the late 1920s and early 1930s in a series of matches – Alekhine and Capablanca included – and did well, if only to lose those matches narrowly.

If I can call it a moment, his big moment came in 1935, when, after two months of games around the Netherlands, Euwe defeated Alekhine 15.5-14.5 to become the fifth World Chess Champion. Like Tal, he only held onto the title for a single cycle, losing it to Alekhine – I say losing, he was hammered (unlike Alekhine, who had given up alcohol in preparation for the match) 15.5-9.5 again in the Netherlands.

Euwe became a professor of mathematics in 1964 and, although he was long past his best over the board, he remained an ambassador for the game. He was President of the international chess association (FIDE) in the 1970s and published an incredible number of books on chess, catering for all levels of ability and on the complete spectrum of topics in chess: opening theory, technical play in the middlegame, biographical accounts, the lot. He died in 1981.

Why would he be the PHA guy? Well, as you might have guessed by now, his style of play was defined by his other interests: he was a rigorously analytical. His opening knowledge was second to none and he would approach a game by systematic and meticulous preparation. He was never frightened of complicated positions. This might sound silly, as it’s never actually scary to play chess. But positions where both sides are attacking and there are a number of perfectly plausible ideas each player can pursue (with only one optimal strategy) often put off all but the elite, and even some of them!

He wasn’t a tactical whizzkid like Tal or Spassky. He wasn’t a quiet, positional player like Fischer or Rubenstein. His modus operandi was to create imbalance in a position and test the opponent’s ability to calculate. The very best players (such as Alekhine and Capablanca) were able on the whole to match him and overcome his imbalances, but so many others struggled.

It is controversial to say this but, in a way, Euwe was more mathematician than chess player; even his chess was played like a mathematician. Fischer was a chess player and, frankly, wasn’t going ever to be anything else.

Here is one of Euwe’s greatest games: against the Russian master Efim Geller, in the Candidates tournament of 1953:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1042835

Geller launches a huge attack at Euwe, essentially trying to smash him off the board. In response, Euwe hits back with a shocking rook sacrifice, which leads to a sensational counter attack. It is like a boxing match where one guy comes out throwing huge combinations and swinging arms, only to find himself clobbered by a brutal uppercut; knocked to the canvas to the raucous hollering of a baying crowd. Ish.

The final position leaves White without any checks (he can check with his queen but he’d lose it straight away) and with Black about to checkmate him – for example, with Qf2 and then, when the king moves to d1, with Bf3 or Rg1, either of which lead to mate.

Shortly before Euwe played Alekhine for the World title, a Dutch radio presenter (called Hollander, incredibly) recorded this clip with Dr Euwe – communicating of course in Dutch – and with Capablanca – speaking in English.  The video starts with Hollander playing a game against Euwe and thinking he is lost. Capablanca then pops in and shows him how he can actually win the position. They then discusses the upcoming World Championship match.

I promise you that you will find what Capablanca says interesting.


YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuyMzb5_tlU






Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on September 19, 2012, 08:39:23 AM

I LOVE these stories of the characters in Chess, keep them coming please.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: jgcblack on September 19, 2012, 08:41:21 AM
chess is a scary prospect when approached with a serious and calculating head on.

I've got some game theory I've vids n books and was suprised to hear there are more different 'strategies' in chess than there are atoms in the universe... Try and get your head around that number.....

:)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: smashedagain on September 19, 2012, 09:23:58 AM
His game is 20% bluff, in chess. It's all above my head but really enjoy this thread.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on September 19, 2012, 01:20:31 PM
If there were a Blonde forum for all the chess world champions over the years, the top poster on PHA would be Dr Max Euwe. Euwe isn’t a household name to many, but he was not only world champion but also a truly great theoretician.

(http://www.rhc-eindhoven.nl/upload/verhalenbank_poost/Wereldkampioenschap-schaken.rien_.jpg)

Dr Euwe was born in 1901 near Amsterdam. He had a talent for mathematics and his studies led him into forging a career, obtaining a doctorate and going on to teach. He published a paper, proving that an infinite number of positions was possible in chess, using a principle I can’t get even close to getting my head around (feel free to explain this to me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thue%E2%80%93Morse_sequence).

He won the Dutch Championship in 1921 and was world amateur champion in 1928. What was particularly interesting about Euwe’s chess career was that he played much less often than others, as he had a full time job and a family. He played the very best in the late 1920s and early 1930s in a series of matches – Alekhine and Capablanca included – and did well, if only to lose those matches narrowly.

If I can call it a moment, his big moment came in 1935, when, after two months of games around the Netherlands, Euwe defeated Alekhine 15.5-14.5 to become the fifth World Chess Champion. Like Tal, he only held onto the title for a single cycle, losing it to Alekhine – I say losing, he was hammered (unlike Alekhine, who had given up alcohol in preparation for the match) 15.5-9.5 again in the Netherlands.

Euwe became a professor of mathematics in 1964 and, although he was long past his best over the board, he remained an ambassador for the game. He was President of the international chess association (FIDE) in the 1970s and published an incredible number of books on chess, catering for all levels of ability and on the complete spectrum of topics in chess: opening theory, technical play in the middlegame, biographical accounts, the lot. He died in 1981.

Why would he be the PHA guy? Well, as you might have guessed by now, his style of play was defined by his other interests: he was a rigorously analytical. His opening knowledge was second to none and he would approach a game by systematic and meticulous preparation. He was never frightened of complicated positions. This might sound silly, as it’s never actually scary to play chess. But positions where both sides are attacking and there are a number of perfectly plausible ideas each player can pursue (with only one optimal strategy) often put off all but the elite, and even some of them!

He wasn’t a tactical whizzkid like Tal or Spassky. He wasn’t a quiet, positional player like Fischer or Rubenstein. His modus operandi was to create imbalance in a position and test the opponent’s ability to calculate. The very best players (such as Alekhine and Capablanca) were able on the whole to match him and overcome his imbalances, but so many others struggled.

It is controversial to say this but, in a way, Euwe was more mathematician than chess player; even his chess was played like a mathematician. Fischer was a chess player and, frankly, wasn’t going ever to be anything else.

Here is one of Euwe’s greatest games: against the Russian master Efim Geller, in the Candidates tournament of 1953:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1042835

Geller launches a huge attack at Euwe, essentially trying to smash him off the board. In response, Euwe hits back with a shocking rook sacrifice, which leads to a sensational counter attack. It is like a boxing match where one guy comes out throwing huge combinations and swinging arms, only to find himself clobbered by a brutal uppercut; knocked to the canvas to the raucous hollering of a baying crowd. Ish.

The final position leaves White without any checks (he can check with his queen but he’d lose it straight away) and with Black about to checkmate him – for example, with Qf2 and then, when the king moves to d1, with Bf3 or Rg1, either of which lead to mate.

Shortly before Euwe played Alekhine for the World title, a Dutch radio presenter (called Hollander, incredibly) recorded this clip with Dr Euwe – communicating of course in Dutch – and with Capablanca – speaking in English.  The video starts with Hollander playing a game against Euwe and thinking he is lost. Capablanca then pops in and shows him how he can actually win the position. They then discusses the upcoming World Championship match.

I promise you that you will find what Capablanca says interesting.


YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuyMzb5_tlU






Infinite number of variations = yes
Infinite number of positions = no


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 19, 2012, 01:27:16 PM
You are of course right, Mr Boshi. World of difference.

It was late :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 19, 2012, 09:51:37 PM
His game is 20% bluff, in chess. It's all above my head but really enjoy this thread.

2 things to say about this: one general; one specific.

In general, say you and I are playing and you make a pawn move which attacks my Knight. We both know it's attacking my knight, so what happens if I move something else? Would you be suspicious of taking my knight now? Maybe I'm intending to do something filthy if you do...You can't see it, but you are confident I haven't just missed your threat, so you conclude I am up to something. You decide not to take my knight and move something else. I checkmate you with my knight.

A particular characteristic of Alekhine's games is that he would force weaknesses in his opponent's position (maybe a weak pawn; maybe a square near the king that he can't easily defend). He would then attack that weakness, knowing that the opponent had enough resources to cover it. His plan was to draw the opposing pieces over to that side of the board and then attack the unguarded other side of the board! If the opponent could hold that, he'd probably make a second weakness in the process, so the cycle would begin again, only with the hapless opponent in even worse shape.

Levelling can happen in chess, and so can bluffing.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on September 19, 2012, 10:16:30 PM

Is poker style "speech play" allowed, or prevalent, in top level chess?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 19, 2012, 10:46:02 PM

Is poker style "speech play" allowed, or prevalent, in top level chess?

No, in a word.

At the very top level, you could hear a dust mite pass wind.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: pleno1 on September 20, 2012, 12:25:37 AM
I work with quite a few grandmasters. They all have over 2350 whatever that means :) they play and study almost every day and we get quite a few people travelling to get involved and challenge them etc. there's times when there really are a Lot of people spectating.

I played chess vs my parents every night for around 3 years and then about 4 times a eek for 6 years. I never ever studied and only ever played against them. I went to UNi and played va housemates and won prolly like 80/80 games. Another 1 year playing with parents 3 times a week.

How good do you think I'd probably be? Would I just be too exploitable? In a pretty quick learner and very enthusiastic about games and willing to study. How potentially good do you think I could be in say 1 year?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 20, 2012, 12:43:32 AM
I work with quite a few grandmasters. They all have over 2350 whatever that means :) they play and study almost every day and we get quite a few people travelling to get involved and challenge them etc. there's times when there really are a Lot of people spectating.

I played chess vs my parents every night for around 3 years and then about 4 times a eek for 6 years. I never ever studied and only ever played against them. I went to UNi and played va housemates and won prolly like 80/80 games. Another 1 year playing with parents 3 times a week.

How good do you think I'd probably be? Would I just be too exploitable? In a pretty quick learner and very enthusiastic about games and willing to study. How potentially good do you think I could be in say 1 year?

Way too difficult to answer almost any of those questions!

2350 would be on the cusp of being an International Master - well above my level - as you need to get your rating above 2400 (along with some other specific tournament criteria) to claim that title.

I assume you play poker with these people, when you say "work"? (Not a needle; just clarifying) From what I understand, a fair few of the master players in England make their money playing poker these days, even if their heart is in chess.

If you have absorbed the opening theory from these chaps, you might struggle against an opponent rated much lower who has a good understanding of the game and can outplay you tactically or positionally. If you have developed an understanding of the game, you'd need to get some theory in there.

Either of these can be coached/taught/learned.

Everything else is up to you. I have worked with complete novices (who knew the moves and nothing else) and got them to 1600 in 20 weeks at 40 mins a week. But it is completely subjective.

Plenty of people spend a lot of time reading Grandmaster books and going through games. How many people watch Premier League Poker and can remember nothing about the action as soon as the closing credits roll other than who won?

The people you work with are naturals. They are gifted players who "get it". The Grandmasters are one above that, too (2500+). The world elite (2700+) even more so.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: pleno1 on September 20, 2012, 12:50:45 AM
Yeh we have 1 or 2 grandmasters or international grandmasters.

One of the guys is Matthias wahls who I honk has a rating of close to 2600.

I work within poker with lots of former chess guys but there are 500 of us so I guess always will be a chess guy.

I want to just learn myself rather than getting coached etc whilst chess was weirdly a huge part of my life I got over obsessed with it Even though I never read one book or watched one video. I'd go to sleep dreaming about placing my knight in position to check the king whilst able to take the queen in te next part.

I'm sure I sound like a massive massive chess fish.

I don't even watch te games that they play, supposedly they are super super high standard and the guys seem to enjoy watching. We had a 2480 or something polish guy come over today to do some poker stuff and he played a few games and was deemed to be reall good.

It's quite a cool environment.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 20, 2012, 01:11:28 AM
Well, I'd start by getting a decent computer. That can be the sort you get free from the App Store (shredder would do the trick). For a laptop, I'd recommend Fritz, which is universally recognised as one of the very best because not only is it strong, it is compatible with a huge variety of training tools and DVDs.

Find an opening you're comfortable with (you find it easy to play and the position you end up in after, say, ten moves, is one you like) and maybe get a bit of familiarity with some of the more common variations (plenty of stuff on the internet for that). Minimal learning and anything you do will help you enjoy the games you play even more.

Have a look at some puzzles: white to play and mate in 2 etc. They will get you used to the sorts of patterns you find. Learn by osmosis how the pieces can work together. So much of chess is recognition (not memory; it's "ah this reminds me of a pawn structure I've seen before").

Read the odd (and do only read the odd, else you'll be bored senseless!) game analysis. Loads of them about - even I link to them occasionally. You will find an expert explaining why X played such and such a move. My advice would be to start with older games, as the modern ones are generally much more complicated. You can look at a game from 1920 and pick up as much than from 2012, at least until you are very familiar with the more complex stuff. YouTube might offer some assistance.
Oh and keep following the chess thread ;)

I think you've hit the nail on the head about not following the games these other chaps play. Why would I understand what Tom Dwan, JovialGent and Timex were discussing? If I thought I'd got it, I'd still have no way of knowing if i was applying it correctly.

One of the great beauties of chess is that you can enjoy it at your level, there's always more to learn and you can explore these at your leisure.
 
On reflection, that's three, isn't it?!




Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: pleno1 on September 20, 2012, 01:21:25 AM
Btw I know of a new chess website opening that's going To be owned by a pretty huge company that will shortly look for both full time and freelance guys. They will likely look for really passionate guys who can help all levels of players and really help them learn. Some of your advice is excellent, would you being interested in such a place or too busy/occupies elsewhere,


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 20, 2012, 01:27:54 AM
Btw I know of a new chess website opening that's going To be owned by a pretty huge company that will shortly look for both full time and freelance guys. They will likely look for really passionate guys who can help all levels of players and really help them learn. Some of your advice is excellent, would you being interested in such a place or too busy/occupies elsewhere,

I am busy atm but I would be mad to say no without seeing the details.

Feel free to PM me when it's all up and running.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on September 20, 2012, 08:53:22 AM
Btw I know of a new chess website opening that's going To be owned by a pretty huge company that will shortly look for both full time and freelance guys. They will likely look for really passionate guys who can help all levels of players and really help them learn. Some of your advice is excellent, would you being interested in such a place or too busy/occupies elsewhere,

I am busy atm but I would be mad to say no without seeing the details.

Feel free to PM me when it's all up and running.

Is that because it is not permitted within the rules, or is considered bad form, or just because the players are above it?

"Move your Knight if you don't like money, my friend" or whatever would surely cast doubt in villains mind?

FWIW, I think it's good they do not do it, whatever the reason.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on September 20, 2012, 10:28:05 AM

Is poker style "speech play" allowed, or prevalent, in top level chess?

No, in a word.

At the very top level, you could hear a dust mite pass wind.


There's quite a bit of subtle stuff that goes on though (and the less subtle stuff such as Korchnoi and Karpov the 'best mates', kicking each other under the table during their World Championship matches!).

I remember playing county games (for Northamptonshire U12s at the time), and being on board 1, that was the game that was on the large demonstration board for everyone to follow. I'd be playing the board 1 from another county who I'd played quite a few times in county matches and also in other tournaments.

Because the games went on for a long time (especially when you're an eleven year old kid), you'd make a move, press the clock and then immediately get up and go for a walk whilst the opponent had a think. Obviously, if there was an obvious move in response you'd hang around, but if it gave them something to think about you could wander around, see how other games were going, or go to the loo.

I'd often stand up and examine the game on the demonstration board.  Sometimes it would also be fun to walk round and stand behind your opponent and view the game from his vantage point.  I remember playing against a lad called Paul Janew from Warwickshire (wonder what he's doing now), and at one stage I was stood behind his chair and he was stood behind mine, both of us examining the board from the other side! Sometimes it was done to intimidate the opponent, but more often than not it was done to make it a bit more interesting.

So although speech play wasn't done, there were lots of unspoken actions you could do to try and 'psyche-out' your opponent.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on September 20, 2012, 10:36:47 AM

Is poker style "speech play" allowed, or prevalent, in top level chess?

No, in a word.

At the very top level, you could hear a dust mite pass wind.


There's quite a bit of subtle stuff that goes on though (and the less subtle stuff such as Korchnoi and Karpov the 'best mates', kicking each other under the table during their World Championship matches!).

I remember playing county games (for Northamptonshire U12s at the time), and being on board 1, that was the game that was on the large demonstration board for everyone to follow. I'd be playing the board 1 from another county who I'd played quite a few times in county matches and also in other tournaments.

Because the games went on for a long time (especially when you're an eleven year old kid), you'd make a move, press the clock and then immediately get up and go for a walk whilst the opponent had a think. Obviously, if there was an obvious move in response you'd hang around, but if it gave them something to think about you could wander around, see how other games were going, or go to the loo.

I'd often stand up and examine the game on the demonstration board.  Sometimes it would also be fun to walk round and stand behind your opponent and view the game from his vantage point.  I remember playing against a lad called Paul Janew from Warwickshire (wonder what he's doing now), and at one stage I was stood behind his chair and he was stood behind mine, both of us examining the board from the other side! Sometimes it was done to intimidate the opponent, but more often than not it was done to make it a bit more interesting.

So although speech play wasn't done, there were lots of unspoken actions you could do to try and 'psyche-out' your opponent.


Lol, I think that would irk me a little, if Villain was stood behind me.

Good stuff, love this thread.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: smashedagain on September 20, 2012, 10:43:48 AM
Boshi finally comes clean. How do you do it in the rsq :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on September 20, 2012, 11:00:18 AM

Is poker style "speech play" allowed, or prevalent, in top level chess?

No, in a word.

At the very top level, you could hear a dust mite pass wind.


There's quite a bit of subtle stuff that goes on though (and the less subtle stuff such as Korchnoi and Karpov the 'best mates', kicking each other under the table during their World Championship matches!).

I remember playing county games (for Northamptonshire U12s at the time), and being on board 1, that was the game that was on the large demonstration board for everyone to follow. I'd be playing the board 1 from another county who I'd played quite a few times in county matches and also in other tournaments.

Because the games went on for a long time (especially when you're an eleven year old kid), you'd make a move, press the clock and then immediately get up and go for a walk whilst the opponent had a think. Obviously, if there was an obvious move in response you'd hang around, but if it gave them something to think about you could wander around, see how other games were going, or go to the loo.

I'd often stand up and examine the game on the demonstration board.  Sometimes it would also be fun to walk round and stand behind your opponent and view the game from his vantage point.  I remember playing against a lad called Paul Janew from Warwickshire (wonder what he's doing now), and at one stage I was stood behind his chair and he was stood behind mine, both of us examining the board from the other side! Sometimes it was done to intimidate the opponent, but more often than not it was done to make it a bit more interesting.

So although speech play wasn't done, there were lots of unspoken actions you could do to try and 'psyche-out' your opponent.


Lol, I think that would irk me a little, if Villain was stood behind me.

Good stuff, love this thread.

But unlike in poker, there's no real advantage to be gained from standing behind them. It's not like you can see their cards. 

Cheating, although not common, did happen.  I was playing a tournament and a lad I was playing kept on going to the toilet.  I thought he'd had too much lemonade or something, but apparently (after some investigate sleuthing from my older brother) it turned out that he was going to the toilet and chatting to some older boys who were giving him advice on the game and what he should be playing. 

I was a few pawns down, and towards the end of the middle-game it wasn't looking good. Queens had been exchanged, but we both had two rooks and three of the minor pieces each. It seemed to be slipping inexorably into an endgame that I'd lose due to my pawn deficit. However, I wasn't going to lie down and accept defeat.  So instead I decided to go all out and attack, and if it went wrong then I'd just lose in fewer moves.  So whilst I was mounting my attack, the opponent would still be popping out to get his advice on what to do next, and his friends watching over the game seemed to be quite confident.  I was always a big fan of the knight, and thought many people underestimated how devastating they can be in the right situations. After a beautifully executed attack that combined my two knights and remaining bishop, I managed to force him into a position that meant I could fork his king and one of his rooks.  With that material advantage I then went on to take him apart and won the game comfortably in the end. 

I guess he needed cleverer mates :D


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 20, 2012, 11:28:54 AM
The walking behind your opponent thing is a way of literally seeing the position from a different perspective, too. It can help some players spot what Villain is up to.  Same goes for looking at the game on a demonstration board (if you are fortunate to do so - thin, boshi!)

Any weekend tournament will try to keep noise down to the absolute minimum. You get ticking clocks (almost exactly the same noise as the constant clickety-clack of riffling chips) but that is largely the only noise to be heard, apart from coughs and sneezes and the occasional "j'adoube" (said when a player touches a piece only to adjust it more centrally on the square and not intending to move it to another) or "check". An ungentlemanly conduct could result in a warning from the arbiter (TD) and possible sanctions such as exclusion could follow in extreme cases.

Despite the fact that you can be warned for talking near a game in progress (even if not about that game or about chess), some people wear earplugs while playing. MP3 players are banned.

I've seen players complain about their opponent sniffing all the time and find their cold-ridden opponent take umbridge by increasing the rate and ferocity of his inhalations. Actual rows have started over such absurdities.

The worst I ever saw was a game involving a blind player (they have their own board, aside from the main board, which has wooden pieces that the player can feel. The black pieces have a brass knob on the top so that they can be distinguished. The player - and the opponent - will call out their moves). The blind player was resting while his opponent thought. Perhaps because of a long weekend's games and poor air con, he fell asleep. He had not realised that his opponent has moved (because his opponent hadn't told him). The opponent not only didn't tell him, he didn't wake him up and went for a walk. The poor blind player ran out of time, despite the arbiter waking him and noticing that the opponent had moved.

I don't know what the outcome was of it all off the board, other than I thought the opponent was not a particularly nice person.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on September 20, 2012, 11:33:13 AM
The walking behind your opponent thing is a way of literally seeing the position from a different perspective, too. It can help some players spot what Villain is up to.  Same goes for looking at the game on a demonstration board (if you are fortunate to do so - thin, boshi!)

Any weekend tournament will try to keep noise down to the absolute minimum. You get ticking clocks (almost exactly the same noise as the constant clickety-clack of riffling chips) but that is largely the only noise to be heard, apart from coughs and sneezes and the occasional "j'adoube" (said when a player touches a piece only to adjust it more centrally on the square and not intending to move it to another) or "check". An ungentlemanly conduct could result in a warning from the arbiter (TD) and possible sanctions such as exclusion could follow in extreme cases.

Despite the fact that you can be warned for talking near a game in progress (even if not about that game or about chess), some people wear earplugs while playing. MP3 players are banned.

I've seen players complain about their opponent sniffing all the time and find their cold-ridden opponent take umbridge by increasing the rate and ferocity of his inhalations. Actual rows have started over such absurdities.

The worst I ever saw was a game involving a blind player (they have their own board, aside from the main board, which has wooden pieces that the player can feel. The black pieces have a brass knob on the top so that they can be distinguished. The player - and the opponent - will call out their moves). The blind player was resting while his opponent thought. Perhaps because of a long weekend's games and poor air con, he fell asleep. He had not realised that his opponent has moved (because his opponent hadn't told him). The opponent not only didn't tell him, he didn't wake him up and went for a walk. The poor blind player ran out of time, despite the arbiter waking him and noticing that the opponent had moved.

I don't know what the outcome was of it all off the board, other than I thought the opponent was not a particularly nice person.


Would the oppo get a little cross with me if I just turned the board round the other way?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on September 20, 2012, 11:36:36 AM
The walking behind your opponent thing is a way of literally seeing the position from a different perspective, too. It can help some players spot what Villain is up to.  Same goes for looking at the game on a demonstration board (if you are fortunate to do so - thin, boshi!)

Any weekend tournament will try to keep noise down to the absolute minimum. You get ticking clocks (almost exactly the same noise as the constant clickety-clack of riffling chips) but that is largely the only noise to be heard, apart from coughs and sneezes and the occasional "j'adoube" (said when a player touches a piece only to adjust it more centrally on the square and not intending to move it to another) or "check". An ungentlemanly conduct could result in a warning from the arbiter (TD) and possible sanctions such as exclusion could follow in extreme cases.

Despite the fact that you can be warned for talking near a game in progress (even if not about that game or about chess), some people wear earplugs while playing. MP3 players are banned.

I've seen players complain about their opponent sniffing all the time and find their cold-ridden opponent take umbridge by increasing the rate and ferocity of his inhalations. Actual rows have started over such absurdities.

The worst I ever saw was a game involving a blind player (they have their own board, aside from the main board, which has wooden pieces that the player can feel. The black pieces have a brass knob on the top so that they can be distinguished. The player - and the opponent - will call out their moves). The blind player was resting while his opponent thought. Perhaps because of a long weekend's games and poor air con, he fell asleep. He had not realised that his opponent has moved (because his opponent hadn't told him). The opponent not only didn't tell him, he didn't wake him up and went for a walk. The poor blind player ran out of time, despite the arbiter waking him and noticing that the opponent had moved.

I don't know what the outcome was of it all off the board, other than I thought the opponent was not a particularly nice person.


I confess, that would absolutely do my head in.

There is a chap in my office who sniffs incessently, & I have to fight the urge to go & offer him a handkerchief. Or teach him some manners. I understand hay fever & the like, thats wholly understandable & accepted, but regular sniffing just grates so. 

Sniffing seems so much more common these days. Ugh.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 21, 2012, 10:13:44 PM
I know some of you like puzzles and some of you like stories, so I have a bit of each for you today; a carvery for the mind.

Get your gold coins ready.

The United States has seemingly had someone in the upper echelons of every game since we gave them a key to the place 250 years ago. Although chess history is saturated in Soviets, there has almost always been a Yank in there somewhere, swinging like Scrappy-Doo (not like the Krankies). Fischer, Morphy, Reshevsky, Nakamura and Kamsky are all star-spangled-banner-waving chess heroes, the last two being current Super-GMs.

I have missed a big name, though: Frank Marshall.

Marshall was a fearsome sort. Born in New York City in 1877, but moving to Canada during his school years, Marshall was the best player in Montreal by the time he was 13, despite only having learned the moves three years earlier.

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/12/21/article-1340520-0C6A360D000005DC-408_306x350.jpg)

Marshall was able to challenge for the World Title in 1907 against the best player of the age, Emanuel Lasker, but was beaten soundly. In those days, matches were decided by the player who was the first to win a specified number of games, rather than seeing a player get one up and try to draw the rest. Lasker won 8, drew 7 and lost none of the games he and Marshall played. Tough to get more convincing than that.

His greatest weapon was his sensational vision for combinations, sacrifices and tactics. If Petrosian were a precision sniper rifle, with telescopic sight and infra-red technology, Marshall would be a blunderbuss. 

This is how I see Marshall: there are people and teams in every sport who are brilliant at beating the patzers; they get ahead quickly and are showered and changed before even the greats are through to the next round. When it comes to playing the very, very best, though, they get found out. Like the big servers in tennis, who beat everyone until they come up against the big four.

His style allowed him to be a giant killer, too, of course, and I’d be doing him a tremendous disservice, were I not to confirm that he was a feared opponent and played absolutely everyone. He held the US Championship title for 27 years and finished halfway up in what is often cited as the greatest tournament of all time: the 1914 St Petersburg tournament. This is a man who was in the top ten players in the world for some time.

The position I am going to show you this evening is taken from his game against Levitsky, played in Breslau in 1912. Levitsky blundered and lost a knight early on. When he went for some counterplay, Marshall played a move that immediately won him the game.

It is widely reported that, on witnessing this move, the spectators showered the board with gold coins, so awestruck and amazed were they with what they had just witnessed.

Here is the position:

(http://www.worldchesslinks.net/puzzle_02_009.gif)

It is Marshall (black) to move. He has a rook hitting his queen now, so he needs to think about that. The rook on h3 can’t be taken by White at the moment, because then Black will play Nf3+, delivering check and picking up the queen.

For those of you who spot the killer blow, remember that you have to see ALL of the combinations. When you go to bet in poker, you should have in mind what you would do if the villain folds, calls or raises. Same applies in chess: you don’t play a move because you are hoping the villain misses something and, if he doesn’t, you’re knackered!

Once you are satisfied – or had enough – here’s a walk through.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PPsK1QKVao

The killer move is exactly 5 minutes in, although you might enjoy the build-up.

If Sid Waddell had been around a century earlier and had commentated on chess, he might actually have exploded.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 21, 2012, 10:18:43 PM
Having spent the last post telling you his life story, it was remiss of me not to mention Marshall's legacy.

The Marshall Chess Club was set up by the man himself in NYC in 1915. A frankly absurd array of chess talent has grown up playing there and it was the second home of Brooklyn's finest...Robert James Fischer.

It is still going today, almost a century on.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on September 21, 2012, 10:40:42 PM
Quite an easy one this time :D


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 21, 2012, 10:43:02 PM
Quite an easy one this time

Try telling that to Mr Levitsky!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 21, 2012, 10:53:27 PM
Exclusive footage - possibly - to indicate that Cambridge Alex and his mates have stopped playing blackjack in their home games and have moved to playing chess...

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_g_ZbGquSM


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: rex008 on September 24, 2012, 12:51:03 PM
Chess scandal!

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8362701/the-evolution-cheating-chess

Got linked to by a tech news summary thing I subscribe to. Loooong article, but the techie interest is near the bottom where it talks about locks that are supposed to prevent the note taking app from allowing other apps to run, and whether they were circumvented, or he just never ran the note app in the first place.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 24, 2012, 01:17:24 PM
Hilarious, Rex!

You aren't allowed computers or electronic devices of any kind in competition so it's odd that this was allowed at all.

Computers play so differently to amateurs it is usually easy to spot with a trained eye. There was a controversy during Kasparov's match with Deep Blue where he said the computer must be being helped by a human, as it couldn't possibly have seen the move with a computer brain. Never proved, of course.

The Turk was a fascinating story - please make sure you read that part of it, thread people.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: rex008 on September 24, 2012, 02:47:32 PM
You aren't allowed computers or electronic devices of any kind in competition so it's odd that this was allowed at all.

I know very little about the chess world, but the article implied this eNotate software was approved for use by the North American Chess Association. Each copy registered, checks made, locks for the software so everything else is disabled, etc.

Pretty brazen to get away with it, and the article implied he'd could have done it since middle of last year based on a rather steep change in ratings:
(http://main.uschess.org/datapage/ratings_graphR.php?memid=12865803)



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on September 24, 2012, 03:01:19 PM
No wonder he was Mr Smiley.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 24, 2012, 03:56:53 PM
You aren't allowed computers or electronic devices of any kind in competition so it's odd that this was allowed at all.

I know very little about the chess world, but the article implied this eNotate software was approved for use by the North American Chess Association. Each copy registered, checks made, locks for the software so everything else is disabled, etc.

Pretty brazen to get away with it, and the article implied he'd could have done it since middle of last year based on a rather steep change in ratings:
(http://main.uschess.org/datapage/ratings_graphR.php?memid=12865803)



Wish my sharkscope looked like that...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: elstitchio on September 24, 2012, 05:00:18 PM
Really bad at chess. Concentration levels not what they should be


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 25, 2012, 11:35:05 PM
The first round of the Grand Slam Final in Sao Paolo (the one in the glass cube I spoke about a few days ago) has been completed and here are the results:

Vishy Anand ½ - ½ Francisco Vallejo-Pons
Levon Aronian 1-0 Sergey Karjakin
Fabiano Caruana 1-0 Magnus Carlsen


A sensational day of chess. Karjakin (who was once the youngest ever Grandmaster at just 12) walked into a prepared line by Aronian and, in a phenomenally complicated game, came out second best.

Vallelo-Pons will be pretty happy with his day’s work against the World Champion.

Perhaps the big story is Carlsen being beaten; not because he lost – Caruana is no slouch with the White pieces – but the way he lost. The position was pretty even and there seemed to be little play in it - it was drawn. As the commentators were dismissing the game as being over, anticipating a handshake at any moment, it slowly became clear that Magnus was intending to grind it out; to test Caruana’s endgame ability. This is a hugely underrated technique; the fact that the position is level doesn’t mean you should have to agree a draw. If there is play in it, we shouldn’t fear playing on.

Carlsen prodded and poked, getting tiny edges in the position until – to the amazement of the grandmaster commentators – he had a winning position. It was a triumph of endeavour and sublime skill in equal measure. There was a problem, though; he was running short of time and, in trying to make the time control, he blundered, missing the coup de grace and was lost.

Such a shame, because it was the most wonderful advert for Carlsen’s style of chess.

From Caruana’s perspective, it’s a fabulous start to the tournament. He would have had a pretty unpleasant afternoon, as defending marginal positions - particularly ones you are convinced are drawn but where the other chap insists on playing on – is uncomfortable stuff.

Here’s the report from Chessbase, along with some pics:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8504


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 25, 2012, 11:40:25 PM
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-n9Y181ekmAI/UGDtKWoeJJI/AAAAAAACZ3g/jabBSprHQXg/s1600/Caruana+vs+Carlsen.jpg)


Early on in the Caruana-Carlsen game.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 26, 2012, 08:19:27 AM
I was a day behind, in case anyone noticed, so here are the round two results:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8507

Round 2: Tuesday, September 25, 15:00h
Francisco Vallejo 0-1 Magnus Carlsen
Sergey Karjakin 0-1 Fabiano Caruana
Viswanathan Anand ½-½ Levon Aronian


Another Carlsen endgame masterclass, but this time with no mistake. His opponent was happy to swap off pretty early but Carlsen wasn't worried, as he had seen further into the position and was able to capitalise on a tiny edge. A bishop versus a knight in an endgame with few pawns is often slightly better but where the pawns are all over the place, there's a lot more to work out. Even against a top 50 player, Carlsen showed his class.

Game of the day for the spectators was Caruana's demolition of Karjakin. From a standard Ruy Lopez position, Caruana made a nice move to get his dark squared bishop active. The analyst of the games on the link above points out that you should always be looking to improve your position. Makes sense, but not something people naturally do, when they are happy with their position or where they think it's drawn.

If you double up early in a tournament, it is tempting to sit back, when you should be playing optimally every hand. Just natural really.

The spectacular bit of the game was Caruana's double sacrifice, where he gave up both of his rooks for bishops, in order to blow open Karjakin's fortress. Caruana's own bishops were suddenly very much in the game, slicing the White position in twain. Poor Mr King was most displeased.

Two wonderful examples of judgment by two of the game's in-form young players.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 26, 2012, 08:22:07 AM
(http://www.deccanchronicle.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/article_horizontal/article-images/Anand.jpg.crop_display.jpg)

Anand drew the day's quiet game with Vallejo-Pons


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: smashedagain on September 26, 2012, 08:32:22 AM
Don't gamble and not into chess in anyway but Tikays Tips and this thread are the ones I look most forward to opening in the morning.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 26, 2012, 08:49:27 AM
Don't gamble and not into chess in anyway but Tikays Tips and this thread are the ones I look most forward to opening in the morning.

Very kind, smashedagain.

The thread is better for interaction and feedback, as there are a hundred different topics, angles and styles I can employ on here, if it is what people want. As it is, I try to find a balance between the "tech" stuff, the reports of tournaments, a few history lessons and player profiles, along with addressing questions people have.

As ever, happy to keep it running for as long as it is wanted.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on September 26, 2012, 09:04:39 AM
Those two "Daily Reports" are beautifully written & balanced, Mr Spurs Bloke, even a chess ice-cream like me can understand.

Keep them coming please, they are little masterpieces in themselves.


Carlsen prodded and poked, getting tiny edges in the position until – to the amazement of the grandmaster commentators – he had a winning position. It was a triumph of endeavour and sublime skill in equal measure. There was a problem, though; he was running short of time and, in trying to make the time control, he blundered, missing the coup de grace and was lost.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 27, 2012, 08:37:58 AM
There is always time for the players to relax and for the journos to get a "they are human" story.

This time, a game of basketball, organised by Lev Aronian.

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/Grand%20Slam%20Masters/basketball06.jpg)

Vallejo-Pons skins Karjakin.


(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/Grand%20Slam%20Masters/basketball16.jpg)

Carlsen on the ball, with Aronian in pursuit and Karjakin - perhaps literally - keeping guard.


(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/grand%20slam%20masters/basketball10.jpg)

Karjakin did get the ball, too, and apparently was an adept finisher


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: AndrewT on September 27, 2012, 01:40:21 PM
Hilarious, Rex!

You aren't allowed computers or electronic devices of any kind in competition so it's odd that this was allowed at all.

Computers play so differently to amateurs it is usually easy to spot with a trained eye. There was a controversy during Kasparov's match with Deep Blue where he said the computer must be being helped by a human, as it couldn't possibly have seen the move with a computer brain. Never proved, of course.

The Turk was a fascinating story - please make sure you read that part of it, thread people.

Article today in the Washington Post about that Deep Blue match.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/26/nate-silvers-the-signal-and-the-noise/


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 28, 2012, 08:21:03 AM
Round 3 saw three draws, so it's as you were.

The games were all pretty complicated, so I shalln't say too much. The one you might want to look at is Calrsen's game against Karjakin.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8509

As played, Carlsen was the one pressing for a win, but he and his opponent both missed a little tactic that would probably have turned the game in the Russian's favour.

Scroll through the game but it's the position after Carlsen's 46th move that you should focus your attention on. The idea of it is to attack the pawn on e5, which he is now threatening with both the took and the Knight, with only the Black king defending. If White moves next, he plays took takes pawn check (Rxe5+) and the king has to move away.

The key to black's killer blow here is that the knight is doing two jobs: it is also covering the pawn on b2.

So, if black takes on b2 with his rook, the knight takes back and now fxe4 leaves the rook attacked by the king but without any squares. He is trapped.

So White loses a pawn and that might be enough.

It is unusual for one player of this level to miss that but both is a real rarity.

They are human!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 28, 2012, 09:32:53 AM
(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/grand%20slam%20masters/caruana03.jpg)

Fabiano Caruana drew with

World Champion, Vishy Anand

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/grand%20slam%20masters/anand03.jpg)

Both conspicuously absent from the basketball.

Anand is more famously into astronomy.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on September 28, 2012, 09:40:48 AM
Has anyone played the "immortal jellyfish variation" yet?

:dontask:


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on September 28, 2012, 09:41:29 AM
...or did they decide it was a load of old carp?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 28, 2012, 09:52:44 AM
There is a game called "The Immortal", he says, not taking the bait.

I'll happily post about that another time.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on September 28, 2012, 10:10:33 AM
There is a game called "The Immortal", he says, not taking the bait.

I'll happily post about that another time.

I thought you were robbed!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Laxie on September 28, 2012, 10:15:18 AM
There is a game called "The Immortal", he says, not taking the bait.

I'll happily post about that another time.

I thought you were robbed!

He was.  It was painful to watch too.  Just need work on your QM bullying techniques and you'll win some day.   :D


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 28, 2012, 09:33:20 PM
Some more pictures of the action - no RSQ answers involved (unless I win one, of course)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Q6b9IY2X_2w/UGL8DwxyuBI/AAAAAAAAMxQ/QjMNOVmFXMM/s1600/general2.jpg)

One taken by the world's smallest photographer.



(http://armenianow.com/sites/default/files/img/imagecache/600x400/levon-aronian_5.jpg)

Armenia's David Beckham (ish): Lev Aronian



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 29, 2012, 11:08:42 AM
Round four continued the entertainment with the headline game of the tournament so far: World number 1 versus World number 2: Carlsen v Aronian.

As we have seen, Carlsen has been getting into good positions from the middle stages of the game but has struggled to seal the deal, often as a result of the pressures of making the time control. In Aronian, he finds a man himself tipped to be World Champion one day and the most likely person to challenge Carlsen’s number one ranking in the near future.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8516

The game itself was a familiar sight for Carlsen v Aronian games: an incredibly intense opening and middlegame that stems from a well-known and highly theorised first few moves (this time, a Ruy Lopez, Berlin Variation). There’s more in the game than I’d be able effectively to discuss – not least because it would take me hours to work it out myself! – but the key bit is Carlsen’s move 27, where he missed a tactic that Aronian could use to win. It’s the sort of thing a decent amateur would expect to spot during a game without any real direction (by that, I mean, it is easier to spot a tactic if someone tells you there is one there).

You can play through the games on the link above and, for those of you unfamiliar with how it works, the bold moves are the ones that were played, while the normal text moves are from the analysis – what could have been played instead.

It is interesting to speculate why, for example, someone might play the right move in a league match against me, but the World Number 2 would miss it against the World Number 1. Perhaps it goes back to our discussions on bluffing and the power of the mind; that there might be an assumption that Carlsen knows what he’s doing, so these great opponents don’t look for those moves. That seems a little simplistic to me, because these guys make moves like that naturally, but Aronian would play RxBf4 in a simultaneous display or a blindfold game against a random patzer a hundred times out of a hundred.

Sir Alex Ferguson complains that teams always play better at Old Trafford. Might the reverse be true against Magnus? Might some players not bring their A-Game when playing against a guy known to grind down the opposition? That is plausible. Everyone – even the very best – has a bogey player; someone who, no matter what the circumstances, you never seem to be able to beat.

Kramnik – the man who took Kasparov’s crown, no less – had a spell where he just couldn’t get close to Carlsen; every time he looked to be winning, Carlsen would wriggle out of it and they would draw. Every level game would see Carlsen carry on and outplay Kramnik in the endgame. Again, this is the man who beat Kasparov by playing solid openings and outplaying Kasparov in the end game…and he is being taken to school by a whipper-snapper.

No sport is exempt from these phenomena, but it is always interesting when you see a great player missing something a section of the crowd would probably have spotted.

The amusing part of these debates is the armchair commentators like myself. I watch a footballer on a billion pounds a week get round the keeper and put the ball wide of the goal and I laugh at him, joke about how rubbish he is and sing “What a waste of money” from the stands. If the manager were to pull me down and say “come on, son, you’re up”, in the same situation, I don’t get past the centre-half and, if I do, I don’t beat the keeper. We don’t always appreciate the movement that got the player into the position to miss. 

The same can be said in chess, where I have described a surprising oversight and gone into all sorts of debate over why it happened, but only mentioned in passing the incredible recollection and calculation required to get to that position.

In the other games, Caruana beat Vallejo-Pons comfortably and he is the clear leader after 4 games. Anand has not exactly lit up the tournament and this is a theme that has seemingly dogged him for a goodly while, now. His games aren’t boring, but they won’t get reported when compared to Caruana or Aronian’s flamboyance or Carlsen’s surgical beauty.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 29, 2012, 11:24:23 PM
OK so you read this thread from time to time but the techy stuff of what is going on in the games is a few levels above you. You'd quite like to know a bit more, even though you still enjoy the stories.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21L45Qo6EIY

The first part of an explanation of how to play chess. It assumes you know how the pieces move and not much else. Hopefully, that's the level of a decent percentage of the thousands of people (ish) who read this thread every day.

Any questions, post them on here.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: smashedagain on September 30, 2012, 09:10:23 AM
Perfect lesson for beginners. Answered a couple of questions I was afraid to ask and learnt so much.

Why do they use a clock and if your time runs out what happens?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: millidonk on September 30, 2012, 10:49:01 AM
Fantastic video. Will be watching the others very shortly. Really makes you realise how much of a fish you actually are.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 30, 2012, 11:20:19 AM
Perfect lesson for beginners. Answered a couple of questions I was afraid to ask and learnt so much.

Why do they use a clock and if your time runs out what happens?

Clocks are used in tournaments to control the length of a game. In a standard game, there will tend also to be a set amount of time to make a certain number of moves (a time control, like you might get in rallying or cycling). In the league games I play, by way of example, I get 75 minutes to make my first 30 moves and the other guy gets the same to make his first 30 moves. Once Black has made his 30th move, we stop the clocks and add 15 minutes to each and we have whatever is left to finish the game - so, if I've used an hour, I have 30mins left to make all my remaining moves, be that one move or 100 moves.

If you run out of time, you generally lose. The only exception is where the other guy doesn't have enough pieces left to checkmate you and then it is a draw. The vast majority of the time, tho, it's a loss.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 30, 2012, 08:55:16 PM
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8518

The final round of the first half of the Grand Slam saw all three matches drawn. Anand-Carlsen is generally drawn (keep an eye out on that one, betting fans) and, although Anand made a small mistake after the opening, it wasn't enough for Magnus to get the full point.

It was a similar story between Vallejo-Pons and Karjakin, with the Russian not being able to convert a small edge.

Caruana will be relieved on the plane home, as he was very much against it, playing an Aronian in full swing.  Aronian created weaknesses all over Caruana's position but missed a slew of chances to seal the W. The commentators were surprised, but probably not as much as Caruana, who will be thinking himself very fortunate to be where he is. Remember that he was losing against Carlsen, only for Carlsen to blunder and lose.

Half time report? Caruana leads but if Aronian or Carlsen are able to sort their killer instincts out in the gap between now and the resumption in Bilbao, I can see one of them mounting a serious challenge.

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/Grand%20Slam%20Masters/roundfive08.jpg)

Carlsen goes for a wander early in the game to see what openings the other players are playing. Will he be back on song for round 6 on 8 October?





Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on September 30, 2012, 09:48:08 PM
Hi Tal,

Something that fascinates me is the age of Vishy. In short, he shouldn't really be that good at his age should he?

(Cue no tikay jokes please.....)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 30, 2012, 10:09:22 PM
Hi Tal,

Something that fascinates me is the age of Vishy. In short, he shouldn't really be that good at his age should he?

(Cue no tikay jokes please.....)

Hi Baron.

Anand is 42. It's not uncommon to see players going back through history of that sort of age. Even today, Kramnik is 37 and very much among the elite.

Part of the problem is that there are so many younger players in that top bracket. It makes it look like a young man's game, where it isn't quite that simple.

Gelfand was the challenger to Anand's crown this year and he's 44.

This might help: a list of the top 100 players in the world, along with their year of birth:

http://ratings.fide.com/top.phtml?list=men

Plenty of younger players but the more experienced heads (in what is, let us remember, a game that relies on memory as well as calculation) aren't without mention.

Last year, Caruana was beaten by a former World Title Challenger called Viktor Korchnoi. He is 80. Now THAT'S amazing.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on September 30, 2012, 10:54:22 PM
Hi Tal,

Something that fascinates me is the age of Vishy. In short, he shouldn't really be that good at his age should he?

(Cue no tikay jokes please.....)

Hi Baron.

Anand is 42. It's not uncommon to see players going back through history of that sort of age. Even today, Kramnik is 37 and very much among the elite.

Part of the problem is that there are so many younger players in that top bracket. It makes it look like a young man's game, where it isn't quite that simple.

Gelfand was the challenger to Anand's crown this year and he's 44.

This might help: a list of the top 100 players in the world, along with their year of birth:

http://ratings.fide.com/top.phtml?list=men

Plenty of younger players but the more experienced heads (in what is, let us remember, a game that relies on memory as well as calculation) aren't without mention.

Last year, Caruana was beaten by a former World Title Challenger called Viktor Korchnoi. He is 80. Now THAT'S amazing.


Isn't the modern game more of a young man's game though? I can't remember where I read it now but I remember reading that as the game has evolved the average ELO ratings have increased, software has become a big part of the game somehow this was all related to a younger average age at the top.

I'm hoping for Carlsen in the 2013 WC match anywho.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on September 30, 2012, 11:48:08 PM
Ratings increase all the time, but there are two main reasons for that:

1. The amount of knowledge/understanding of the game increases;
2. As the opposition's rating gets higher, you get a higher rating yourself for beating them.

It is worthy of note (although likely an anomoly soon to be rectified) that Kasparov still holds the highest ever rating.

All that said, I think there is some truth that the average age of the elite player is getting younger. There's more travelling, more sponsorship commitments, more technical research, more interest in the young players.

It's not a million miles from being analogous to poker. Unlike in poker, there has always been a young prodigy around: Morphy, Reschevsky, Capablanca, Spassky, Fischer, Carlsen. Maybe Wesley So will kick on from where he is now and become the first Philippino World Champion.

Anand has embraced technology more than most. Kramnik, too, in fairness.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on October 01, 2012, 12:00:49 AM
Which brings me nicely onto my next question.

Is the ELO rating any good for comparing players in different eras?

Whilst I've read a lot of criticism about the rating, no one seems to have come up with a better one yet.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on October 01, 2012, 12:02:43 AM
Ratings increase all the time, but there are two main reasons for that:

1. The amount of knowledge/understanding of the game increases;
2. As the opposition's rating gets higher, you get a higher rating yourself for beating them.

It is worthy of note (although likely an anomoly soon to be rectified) that Kasparov still holds the highest ever rating.

All that said, I think there is some truth that the average age of the elite player is getting younger. There's more travelling, more sponsorship commitments, more technical research, more interest in the young players.

It's not a million miles from being analogous to poker. Unlike in poker, there has always been a young prodigy around: Morphy, Reschevsky, Capablanca, Spassky, Fischer, Carlsen. Maybe Wesley So will kick on from where he is now and become the first Philippino World Champion.

Anand has embraced technology more than most. Kramnik, too, in fairness.


I guess then, that is even more incredible based on the fact he was playing against players with a lower average.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 01, 2012, 12:08:49 AM
Which brings me nicely onto my next question.

Is the ELO rating any good for comparing players in different eras?

Whilst I've read a lot of criticism about the rating, no one seems to have come up with a better one yet.

I'll answer your question this way: George Best in his boots with his training methods and his lifestyle would not be a match for Messi. What if he had a dietician, predator boots, a cupboard of personal trainers..?

There have been studies on who would be the greatest player of all time on a level playing field. They're fun for pub chats but I don't take too much notice.

The best player there has ever been IMHO is Garry Kasparov. However, the second best is much harder. Maybe Anand. Maybe Fischer. Maybe Alekhine, Capablanca, Tal...Carlsen? He is the second highest rated player of all time.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 01, 2012, 12:09:18 AM
Ratings increase all the time, but there are two main reasons for that:

1. The amount of knowledge/understanding of the game increases;
2. As the opposition's rating gets higher, you get a higher rating yourself for beating them.

It is worthy of note (although likely an anomoly soon to be rectified) that Kasparov still holds the highest ever rating.

All that said, I think there is some truth that the average age of the elite player is getting younger. There's more travelling, more sponsorship commitments, more technical research, more interest in the young players.

It's not a million miles from being analogous to poker. Unlike in poker, there has always been a young prodigy around: Morphy, Reschevsky, Capablanca, Spassky, Fischer, Carlsen. Maybe Wesley So will kick on from where he is now and become the first Philippino World Champion.

Anand has embraced technology more than most. Kramnik, too, in fairness.


I guess then, that is even more incredible based on the fact he was playing against players with a lower average.

Absolutely.

Edit: I should just clarify what I mean by that bold bit. Kasparov's 2851 from the year 1999-2000 is higher than any other player has been able to reach. Carlsen is currently 2843.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on October 01, 2012, 12:18:56 AM
Which brings me nicely onto my next question.

Is the ELO rating any good for comparing players in different eras?

Whilst I've read a lot of criticism about the rating, no one seems to have come up with a better one yet.

I'll answer your question this way: George Best in his boots with his training methods and his lifestyle would not be a match for Messi. What if he had a dietician, predator boots, a cupboard of personal trainers..?

There have been studies on who would be the greatest player of all time on a level playing field. They're fun for pub chats but I don't take too much notice.

The best player there has ever been IMHO is Garry Kasparov. However, the second best is much harder. Maybe Anand. Maybe Fischer. Maybe Alekhine, Capablanca, Tal...Carlsen? He is the second highest rated player of all time.

Understood - it's so subjective but only to those who know the game well. Unlike most other sports where everyone has a fairly valid opinion.

Thanks for clarifying.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 02, 2012, 08:33:28 AM
With the exception of the group in Brazil, many of the top players in the world have been playing in London for the past couple of weeks. Simpson's-in-the-Strand is an iconic place to host chess and has a rich history. But that, as they say, is for another time...

As even the hardiest chess followers would struggle to maintain interest levels - and as there is a much bigger and more interesting tournament in London in December, details of which I shall discuss nearer the date (or just Google London Chess Classic) - I chose just to focus on the Grand Slam Masters Final.

The Simpson's tournament (even saying it makes me think Professor Frink is involved) has former World Number 1 and World Title Challenger Topalov, Super-GM Nakamura, one of the finest young players Danish Giri, England's number 1 Michael Adams and a number of other top players.

With two rounds left, here is the cross table:

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/london/london-tab09.gif)

Anything rating-wise over 2700 is outstanding. These are the ones who tend to be labelled "Super-GMs", which, while not a title, highlights that a GM rating will generally be over 2500 and 200 points is a fair old whack.

Despite being number 4 in the world in the latest ratings, American Hikaru Nakamura has had a royal stinker of a tournament. In his latest game, he lost to Michael Adams after a pretty silly blunder for a player of his level.

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/london/london-gp45.jpg)




Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 02, 2012, 08:39:03 AM
You will also notice the huge percentage of drawn games from the cross table, which never makes for great punditry. When so many players are of a similar standards, that can happen, of course, but it is also frustrating for the spectators, who - as do we all - like seeing blood. Metaphorically of course.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: rex008 on October 03, 2012, 08:56:04 AM
A thought occurred to me this morning: I was reading an interesting article in the Sunday Times about the rise of women in society compared to historical expectations, and how they are now dominating education (58% of university entrants), and a lot of new entrants to the professions now (new doctors and solicitors are majority female), but then you see pics of chess tournaments, and they are all blokes. I'm assuming that if a women was ranked high enough, she'd be playing, so I presume there are few (none?) high ranked women? Any in the world top 10 at the moment? Top 20? Has there ever been a female in the top 10?

Was wondering why this was. Obviously there are considerable historic reasons for few women, but I suspect these days it is more likely to be neurological reasons - it's long been accepted that women's brains are different (on average), and I suspect the differences generally give men the advantage when it comes to chess.

What are your thoughts?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on October 03, 2012, 10:11:03 AM
...
Was wondering why this was. Obviously there are considerable historic reasons for few women, but I suspect these days it is more likely to be neurological reasons - it's long been accepted that women's brains are different (on average), and I suspect the differences generally give men the advantage when it comes to chess.

What are your thoughts?

It's the same reason why there aren't many top women poker players or video gamers - women have better things to do with their time. :D


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 03, 2012, 10:40:26 AM
There's probably some truth in that, Jon :)

Jon will know that junior chess is much more even until you get to 11ish and then the girls' interest tends to wain. No idea why but that's what seems to happen. Whether boys are physiologically better-tuned for calculation and girls are better for more artistic ventures is a moot point, I suppose.

One exception in recent times is Judit Polar, one of three excellent chess sisters. A Hungarian, she is currently world number 40 (at 2705) but has been much higher. Her highest rating (2735, from October 2005) would see her today comfortably in the world top 20. I believe she was actually in the top 10 at that time. There's little between 50th and 15th really, though.

One possible is Hou Yifan who is playing a huge amount of chess at the moment and consistently climbing. She is the top girl in the world (born in 1994) and is 13th best when the boys are added. At 2605, she is a whole 100 points behind Judit Polar, but I would expect her to close the gap a little in the years to come.

All things in context: she was born the same year as Anish Giri, who is the world number 24 at 2730.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on October 03, 2012, 12:55:05 PM
on Chess.com they have a feature which means you can have a game analysed by the computer which has a nominally high rating.

If anybody's interested in a bit of board analysis, what would your strategy be as white? or as black?

(white to move)
(http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss82/beloved_ltd/ChessAnalysisMove30.png)

IF anyone is bothered I could give the comparison to what me and my opponent actually did - and also what the computer thought we should do.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 03, 2012, 04:06:28 PM
on Chess.com they have a feature which means you can have a game analysed by the computer which has a nominally high rating.

If anybody's interested in a bit of board analysis, what would your strategy be as white? or as black?

(white to move)
(http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss82/beloved_ltd/ChessAnalysisMove30.png)

IF anyone is bothered I could give the comparison to what me and my opponent actually did - and also what the computer thought we should do.

With a very preliminary analysis, I think white could comfortably secure a draw, but the same-squared bishops would benefit black slightly. Not sure white can force a win, with the rook/knight material disadvantage - would have to look at it in a lot more detail, and that would take some time.

... Be3

That would win white a pawn, and also enable an exchange with the knight for black's bishop - making the draw a lot easier, and possibly opening up some options with white's linked pawns against a lone pawn down the queen's side.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 03, 2012, 05:31:49 PM
Nice idea. Would like to hear more views - no analysis too basic; no ideas too silly.

For those of you who want live action, here is a link to some live webcam streams of the games in the final round of the London grand Prix tournament I mentioned the other day:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8526


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on October 03, 2012, 09:10:09 PM
If Be3 doesn't Rf3 cause all kinds of problems for white?

Still thinking about this because I'm definitely in the 'basic' category but it looks like curtains to me.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 03, 2012, 09:41:03 PM
If Be3 doesn't Rf3 cause all kinds of problems for white?

Still thinking about this because I'm definitely in the 'basic' category but it looks like curtains to me.

If your point is that Black is attacking the Knight and the bishop, White can get around that by playing NxBf8+ and then moving the bishop away.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on October 03, 2012, 09:52:19 PM
If Be3 doesn't Rf3 cause all kinds of problems for white?

Still thinking about this because I'm definitely in the 'basic' category but it looks like curtains to me.

If your point is that Black is attacking the Knight and the bishop, White can get around that by playing NxBf8+ and then moving the bishop away.

Doesn't black then just take the knight and be 2 rooks vs bishop and rook?

I seem to remember a previous post where you'd said that generally if you're in a material deficit you should be looking to keep as many pieces in play as possible.

Bear with me. I think this is the first time I've ever tried to think more than 2 moves ahead :D


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 03, 2012, 10:07:43 PM
If Be3 doesn't Rf3 cause all kinds of problems for white?

Still thinking about this because I'm definitely in the 'basic' category but it looks like curtains to me.

If your point is that Black is attacking the Knight and the bishop, White can get around that by playing NxBf8+ and then moving the bishop away.

Doesn't black then just take the knight and be 2 rooks vs bishop and rook?

I seem to remember a previous post where you'd said that generally if you're in a material deficit you should be looking to keep as many pieces in play as possible.

Bear with me. I think this is the first time I've ever tried to think more than 2 moves ahead :D


There are no stupid questions, so don't worry.

You're right. There is already a material deficit, so the swaps don't change that.

Black is doing well, but it's a challenge to win it because the bishop in an open position can cover a lot of ground. These positions can end up in a draw, especially where Black runs out of pawns to force home.

You'd want to be Black, but the question is what are your tactics? How do you look to defend as White?

...and what would the computer do?!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on October 03, 2012, 10:14:50 PM
...
... Be3

That would win white a pawn, and also enable an exchange with the knight for black's bishop - making the draw a lot easier, and possibly opening up some options with white's linked pawns against a lone pawn down the queen's side.

That's a good point - you've pretty much suggested how white should continue. What about black - how does black win it?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on October 03, 2012, 10:35:56 PM
Ok I'm going to give this a go. Never done this before so we'll see how it goes. I don't think I've ever made a move in chess that's taken more than a minute to think through so it'll give you an idea of where I'm normally coming from.

Initial thoughts as white are that I need to keep my pieces in tact. I wouldn't mind swapping a knight or bishop for a rook but black is unlikely to offer that up any time soon.

So I need to protect my knight which is under immediate pressure which suggests to move it. If I move it though my bishop is under threat so I can only move it to c7 thus threatening the rook. Rc8 then means I have to hop straight back at which point Rc6 means I have to trade off a piece.

So in order to avoid a trade off I have to put pressure on f2. Black won't want to swap his rook for my knight or bishop so this could buy me some time.

Actually whilst typing this I think I've seen a plan. Nf4 check. If Kxg5 Nh3 pins the king and rook. If Rxf4 we nab the rook. Hmmmm. Cancel that. Kf5 seems to ruin my life. Oh man!!!! I think I need to go to bed!!!!

Right then. Back to the original plan. Got to move that bishop to pressurise the rook thus buying my knight some time. Only 2 options. e3 or h4.

Ok something else has just occurred whilst thinking this one through. What does Rg1 do for me? If Rxe6 Bh4 gives me a rook for my knight. You know what, my brain's fried. I'm going with Rg1 and hoping that he doesn't spot what I'm up to. Can't see him resisting that seemingly free knight.

My head hurts :(


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on October 03, 2012, 10:48:12 PM
Meh. Kh5 muffs this as well.

Might just have to copy Boshi but without really knowing why.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on October 03, 2012, 11:07:02 PM
I think as black I'd be looking to get my rooks linked up on row 2 so we can pressurise the king and maybe take out a few pawns.

This suggests that as white I need to prevent black from linking up his rooks on row 2 where they can pressurise my king and maybe take some of my pawns.

Do I win?

Be3 - Re2
Nxf8 - Rxf8
Bxa7 (the pawn Dan was after) - Ra8

White now has to move his bishop then Rxa2

Doesn't this position put white in a spot of bother?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on October 03, 2012, 11:13:39 PM
Have I really just spent the last 2 hours of my life trying to figure out this chess problem?

 ;stickaforkinme;


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 03, 2012, 11:31:27 PM
If... Re2, then Nf4+ and black loses a rook for the bishop in the exchange.


On my phone, so might be missing stuff.  But Rg1 for white could be a giggle...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on October 04, 2012, 12:20:08 AM
If... Re2, then Nf4+ and black loses a rook for the bishop in the exchange.


On my phone, so might be missing stuff.  But Rg1 for white could be a giggle...

Oh yeah Rg1. That's what i meant when I said Ra7. Oops.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 04, 2012, 12:35:57 AM
Great read, boshi and EvilPie. This is the curse of playing the game: you spend a lot of time being 75% confident and very little time above that! Let me try this another way:

Black has just played (let us assume) Re8 and we are White.

A good think should have 3 stages:

1. Why did Villain do that?
2. What am I going to play?
3. Have I missed anything?

1. Is nice and easy if we assume Re8 was the last move - he is attacking our knight and knows that, if we just plonk him on say c5, he can take our bishop.

3. Is just our final check to make sure whatever move we are going to make isn't a seismic blunder.

2. Is where the magic happens. In his great book, Think Like a Grandmaster, the Russian Alexander Kotov suggested we look at each piece and at all the squares they can go to. Once we've seen that, we should be able to whittle the moves down to 3 or 4 possible ones (this is easier if one of your pieces is under immediate threat). Then we play through those moves one by one and evaluate the position. Having done that, we choose the best move, knowing that we have looked at every move available. It's surprisingly quick as a process; much more thorough and gives you more confidence that you have found the best move.


That said, then, what are your options? Explain why they're on the list and give me a couple of moves for each line so that we can assess the position. Then we will have say 3 or 4 possible positions and tell me why one is better than the others.

If I told you most of the best players in the world have a similar system to this, would you believe me?



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 04, 2012, 09:18:13 AM
Still can't see much further than Be3. Not keen on Rg1, as I think any attacking threat fizzles out quickly and leaves white exposed to a back rank mate.

Tal, what are your thoughts? What line looks optimum for white?

As for black's strategy, well that's very much reactivate as white has the initiative in terms of being ableto dictate the next few moves at least.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 04, 2012, 10:41:27 PM
Will be interested to hear what happened in Jon's game, but, having had a decent look at the position, my thoughts are:

1. Black is winning - seems easy to say as he has a material advantage, but White has a fair bit of play. White is playing to draw the game, short of something spectacular.
2. Black wants to keep the g-pawn if he is going to win (unless White makes a big mistake and loses more material - It is important always to assume that your opponent will play the best move on the board; never play a move hoping he misses a better response because even the fish have it sometimes). The key to this - the winning position, if you like - will be either queening a pawn or winning the bishop for it in the process. That's how we're most likely going to win.
3. Black wants to get the two rooks working to help that pawn.
4. The knight will likely swap off for the black bishop very shortly, as the position would be even better for Black if that got active.
5. White can win the pawn on a7 but Black can play Ra8 and win the white a-pawn. This will probably happen in the game, because White wants to swap off the pawns to stand a chance of drawing.
6. There will be loads of tactics once those rooks start flying round the board and both sides will need to be very careful they don't fall into a trap.
7. It will take ages to win it!

Am I close?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 05, 2012, 12:02:37 AM
Bonsoir, mes amis!

We’ve seen some of the biggest names in chess history (with a few notable exceptions) but I’m going to take you back much further than we’ve been so far.

François-André Danican Philidor was by far and away the best player in the world for most of his playing career – perhaps as much as half a century – in the mid-1700s. His name lives on in both an opening (The Philidor Defence) and in an endgame position that is used in studies.

He was a remarkable figure in chess history because of just how much he moved the game forward. I have discussed previously that, every now and then, someone comes along and blows everything else away; they move the game forward a couple of notches without pausing for breath and everything that is done after that is done with reference to their work. Philidor is precisely one of those events in chess history.

M. Philidor was born in 1726 to a musical family (perhaps CambridgeAlex knows about one or more of the Philidors?) and himself became a competent composer.

(http://www.chessville.com/images/people/Philidor%20the%20musician%20Bust%20on%20Paris%20Opera%20house.jpg)

This is his bust at the Opera Garnier in Paris.

Little was understood about chess back then, although it was a common pursuit among the higher classes in Paris. Philidor probably learned to play as a choirboy in Louis XV’s own choir, while in what would now be infant school.

He took the game up more regularly from about 14 and he found himself playing frequently at the great Café de la Régence.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Cafe_de_la_Regence_inside.jpg/300px-Cafe_de_la_Regence_inside.jpg)

(http://www.chessnc.com/webapp/cnc/gallery/history/cafe-de-la-regence.jpg)

It is understood, while there, he played a “friend from New England”, who we know as Benjamin Franklin.  Philidor was schooled by the best player in France at the time but he went from being bludgeoned by him to beating him in a little over three years.

As was the custom for the best part of a hundred and fifty years afterwards, the best players would travel to play matches against the best from other areas and Philidor is recorded as having played matches against the Syrian player Phillip Stamma (absolutely rangemerging him) and the English number one, Sir Abraham Janssen.

The player considered the greatest contender at the time was a M. de Legal, but when he was beaten in a match in 1755, Philidor was roundly hailed as the finest player in the world without dispute.

After then, Philidor’s life was largely spent in London and he made his living playing chess from the Salopian Coffee House in Charing Cross, as well as the St James Chess Club.

We have seen some tremendous feats by players in the last Century in blindfold chess, but Philidor was probably the first to embrace it as a legitimate way of playing visitors. The story goes that he played three players simultaneously and allowed the third to play against him with a pawn advantage (in other worse, Philidor would take a pawn of his off before the game started – say the king’s bishop’s pawn) and still won all three. Spectators were so amazed, they were asked to sign affidavits to verify to others what they had witnessed. Could you imagine something so wonderful?

Sadly, Eighteenth Century France was not the most comfortable of places for someone who had a bit of money. Philidor was banished from the realm and so his later life was spent in England. He moved here permanently at 65 and it was here that he died in 1795. He is buried in St James, Piccadilly.

Philidor’s influence on the game was much more than his ability. He understood something that no one had appreciated before: the power of the pawn.

He wrote a book that was the lead authority on chess for a hundred years and, in it, he said:

« Le pion, c’est l’âme des échecs »

The pawn is the soul of chess

No one had put much value in pawns, but he realised how powerful a strong pawn centre could be and how strong a chain of them marching forward could be. It was visionary.

Here’s the man himself, anyway:

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ON5S6ZeYk9o/TtjZTeKBWcI/AAAAAAAAE_M/srH47d1SRi8/s1600/contre+gambit+philidor.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 05, 2012, 12:07:03 AM
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1257921

A game where Philidor beats a gentleman called Captain Smith (one can only imagine...)

Watch how he uses his pawns to create space on the queenside and then uses the g-pawn and the h-pawn to open up the White King.



I've just found this picture and had to share! Which one is Philidor? Blindfold chess, ladies and gentlemen:

(http://www.blindfoldchess.net/images/uploads/philidor_exhibition.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on October 05, 2012, 06:15:51 AM
I'll go through every suggestion tonight - but not altogether surprisingly - Tal does the best, in particular

Will be interested to hear what happened in Jon's game, but, having had a decent look at the position, my thoughts are:

1. Black is winning  the computer analysis definitely made this point as well
2. Black wants to keep the g-pawn if he is going to win it makes sense for black to keep attacking, but the computer (and the safest) way for black to win is to actually forget about the immediate attack and promote the pawn
3. Black wants to get the two rooks working to help that pawn.
4. The knight will likely swap off for the black bishop very shortly, as the position would be even better for Black if that got active. yep
...
7. It will take ages to win it! this was move 30 and it finished on move 60

Am I close?

5. and 6. are right as well, but end up not being relevant to the game as black screwed up, also it's not strictly connected to the analysis as it's related to this blunder - but...
Quote
... White is playing to draw the game, short of something spectacular.  ....
;D


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 05, 2012, 08:27:50 AM
Thank goodness I was close! Could have been the closing post of the thread otherwise :)

In all seriousness, that was a very difficult position. Sometimes, at least at our level, you have not to worry about who is winning and just carry on playing the best move you can. In that case, you should almost always look to be attacking. The best way to draw a game is to attack because the villain has to withdraw his pieces to defend, which means you are less under threat.

It doesn't mean being gung-ho but active pieces, a good pawn structure (defending each other or able to do so; a passed pawn if possible - that is one the villain doesn't have a pawn he can take or stop it with - like the g-pawn in our study) and sensible, forward movement.

Great fun, Jon. Thanks for sharing.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 05, 2012, 12:03:06 PM
I'd be confident as white that I could force a draw in that game. 


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 05, 2012, 06:57:09 PM
I'd be confident as white that I could force a draw in that game. 

In practice, this might well be what happens a fair amount of the time. In theory, I'd say it's a winning game for Black. You would want to be winning this over half the time.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on October 05, 2012, 11:56:00 PM
...
(white to move)
(http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss82/beloved_ltd/ChessAnalysisMove30.png)
...

When the chess.com computer does free analysis it looks like it analyses the moves and if it's:

(a) sub-optimal it calls it an inaccuracy (?)
(b) a mistake it calls it a ... well, mistake (??)
(c) a big mistake it calls it a blunder (?!)

And it shows what it considers to be the next 5 most optimal moves for both sides

At the stage above I think it's fairly clearly that Be3 is the optimal move

My (white's) general strategy at this point is to try and use all my pieces to shepherd my pawns up for promotion - complicated by having to respond to blacks moves

...
... Be3

That would win white a pawn, and also enable an exchange with the knight for black's bishop - making the draw a lot easier, and possibly opening up some options with white's linked pawns against a lone pawn down the queen's side.

Is where I'm coming from

The computer analysis more or less follows this - but gives black the initiative, rather than just trying to keep hammering white in the corner it moves his pieces over to position them to guide it's pawn down for promotion. Although it's quite hard to follow.

What black actually played after Be3 was to continue attacking with



...
Do I win?

Be3 - Re2
Nxf8 - Rxf8
Bxa7 (the pawn Dan was after) - Ra8

White now has to move his bishop then Rxa2

Doesn't this position put white in a spot of bother?


If... Re2, then Nf4+ and black loses a rook for the bishop in the exchange.
...

That is Re2 - and I did play Nf4+ - but there was a bit of a screw up on both sides; bit of a blood bath and the end result is I lost both my bishop and my knight - but because black messed up even more than I did he lost a rook and a bishop.

It took me a while to remember what my next strategy question is but I've remembered now I'll post it by itsellf


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on October 05, 2012, 11:56:19 PM
white: A rook and 3 pawns v black: a rook and 2 pawns

if both sides work out that without the other side intefering you can both race a pawn and get them promoted, do you let your opponent get his pawn promoted queen in exchange for being able to get your pawn promoted to a queen?

Also - black promotes first so is a pawn down, but with the initiative


EDIT: I've played 40 long games (3 days per move) so now I'm analysing - hence the burst of strategic thinking


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: jgcblack on October 06, 2012, 01:21:05 AM
Sorry to ask a super noob question... but what and how do the moves you guys are describing mean?


I dont understand Bf3 or MW19 seems like a postcode! :D



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 06, 2012, 01:39:34 AM
The 64 squares are numbered by the column and row of the board. A-H for the columns starting from the left; and 1-8 for the rows starting from the bottom. So the first square in the bottom left corner is a1, and the top right square is h8 (always done from white's point of view).

Then capital letters are used for the pieces. So B=bishop, N=knight, K=king, etc.

So, Be5 means Bishop to e5.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: jgcblack on October 06, 2012, 03:07:33 AM
The 64 squares are numbered by the column and row of the board. A-H for the columns starting from the left; and 1-8 for the rows starting from the bottom. So the first square in the bottom left corner is a1, and the top right square is h8 (always done from white's point of view).

Then capital letters are used for the pieces. So B=bishop, N=knight, K=king, etc.

So, Be5 means Bishop to e5.

Thanks, figured it was something like this... but i did wonder about the two 'views' and when you refer to which piece.. which rook etc..



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on October 06, 2012, 06:00:56 AM
The 64 squares are numbered by the column and row of the board. A-H for the columns starting from the left; and 1-8 for the rows starting from the bottom. So the first square in the bottom left corner is a1, and the top right square is h8 (always done from white's point of view).

Then capital letters are used for the pieces. So B=bishop, N=knight, K=king, etc.

So, Be5 means Bishop to e5.

Thanks, figured it was something like this... but i did wonder about the two 'views' and when you refer to which piece.. which rook etc..



If both your rooks (for example) can both move to the same square then you also add the square it started on.

Pawns don't get a letter, so if it just says a square number (like e5) then it means pawn to e5


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 06, 2012, 08:27:33 AM
white: A rook and 3 pawns v black: a rook and 2 pawns

if both sides work out that without the other side intefering you can both race a pawn and get them promoted, do you let your opponent get his pawn promoted queen in exchange for being able to get your pawn promoted to a queen?

Also - black promotes first so is a pawn down, but with the initiative


EDIT: I've played 40 long games (3 days per move) so now I'm analysing - hence the burst of strategic thinking

Hi Jon. This is a difficult question to answer because it depends so much on the position.

In general, queening a pawn each makes the position much more complicated (because the queen has so many possible moves for you to work out) and the side that is ahead will generally want to keep it simple; both queening would tend to give the other guy a chance he doesn't deserve.

Endgames are more difficult than players realise because they are full of little tactics. The fact that Magnus Carlsen has been beating the best players in the world in level endgames is proof of this.

If the pawns are all on the same side of the board, the position might be a theoretical draw. By all means carry on, but be aware that, if the villain plays well, it might lead to shaking hands. Make him find the right moves, though, if you want.

And thank you for your examination of the position. Certainly encouraged some debate.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 06, 2012, 08:33:19 AM
Quote from: kinboshi link=topic=58441.msg1648994#msg1648994date=1349483974
The 64 squares are numbered by the column and row of the board. A-H for the columns starting from the left; and 1-8 for the rows starting from the bottom. So the first square in the bottom left corner is a1, and the top right square is h8 (always done from white's point of view).

Then capital letters are used for the pieces. So B=bishop, N=knight, K=king, etc.

So, Be5 means Bishop to e5.

Thanks, figured it was something like this... but i did wonder about the two 'views' and when you refer to which piece.. which rook etc..



There are different ways of recording the moves and this is the modern way, called Algebraic Notation. Wiki amongst others explains how to do it


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 06, 2012, 08:34:23 AM
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebraic_notation_(chess)

http://chess.about.com/od/tipsforbeginners/qt/ReadNotation.htm


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 06, 2012, 09:36:31 AM
When I first started playing, it was either descriptive or algebraic - and it was either or that was used, but not both together. I naturally combined the two in my notation as it seemed the obvious thing to do, and now it's pretty standard.

I remember being able to read chess notation of a game and be able to follow the whole game in my head without a board. I reckon I'd get lost after five moves now.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 07, 2012, 08:09:26 PM
I'm not as good as I used to be either, Kinboshi. I used to be able to recall games but I struggle now.


A thought-provoking article on economics from a chess grandmaster turned economist Ken Rogoff. (This is the man who played Carlsen for a bit of fun on his sponsor-led visit to New York a few weeks back)

Cliffs: the birth of the computer age raised questions about whether it would put people out of jobs. It didn't. In chess, computers have changed the game and, rather than putting trainers out of a job, they're now paid more than ever, because they are able to utilise the resources better than anyone else.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8534


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 07, 2012, 09:14:12 PM
Forget Rastafish's "table talk". In days gone by, there were players who would stare at their opponent and drive fear into their hearts. We've heard about Alekhine, but here are some others:

(http://www.chessbase.com/columns/levpics/tal_1960.jpg)

Mikhail Tal


(http://files.chesscomfiles.com/images_users/tiny_mce/alexandrumag/garry_kasparov.jpg)

Garry Kasparov, who has openly discussed his use of mind games.

(http://files.chesscomfiles.com/images_users/tiny_mce/victhestick/fischerpic.jpg)

Bobby Fischer
 





Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 07, 2012, 09:25:16 PM
(http://www.echecs-photos.be/BobbyFischer-photos/slides/1966%20Bobby%20Fischer%20vs%20Fidel%20Castro.jpg)

Of all the people to give the death stare to...


OK this one has no world champions in, but points for identifying the three people in the in the picture (I only know the one watching and the one on the left...)

(http://files.chesscomfiles.com/images_users/tiny_mce/fleiman/pictures/Lenin.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 08, 2012, 10:26:46 PM
Sensational stuff in the latest round of the Grand Slam Masters Final, as we are now in Bilbao for the second half.

It was the leader against the World Number 1, with Caruana taking on Carlsen. The Italian/American had been the victor in their game in Sao Paolo, as Carlsen had tried too hard to force an edge, despite getting it, when he blundered. This time, the position was level and looked all but drawn. Again, Carlsen pressed. Again, he found an edge but there was to be no let-up this time, with the Norwegian showing a textbook finish to the game that makes commentators’ lives tremendously easy.

The other two games were the equivalent of nil-nils, with no real movement either way.

So, Carlsen closes the gap to Caruana’s lead as we go into the next game. Carlsen will have white against the bottom seed (Vallejo-Pons), so he could be the chipleader this time tomorrow.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8538


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 08, 2012, 10:28:13 PM
Also, any ideas on the people in the pictures above?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 09, 2012, 08:30:38 AM
A more detailed analysis of Carlsen-Caruana is available now:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8538

The most wonderfully written prologue on this page, too; how does Carlsen tackle the fact that every player nowadays in that elite bracket has done hours of opening preparation, so advantages are hard to come by?

Today's fixtures are:

Round 7: Tuesday, October 9, 17h
Magnus Carlsen v Francisco Vallejo-Pons
Fabiano Caruana v Sergey Karjakin
Levon Aronian v Vishwanathan Anand

I am expecting Aronian v Anand to be a draw (it often is) and for Caruana-Karjakin to go the same way (after a loss, I expect Caruana to take no risks and be content to share the point). Carlsen might see this as his best chance (White against the bottom seed), so I am expecting a long game. Will he get enough to lead or will the home player score a shock victory?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 09, 2012, 05:47:53 PM
(http://files.chesscomfiles.com/images_users/tiny_mce/fleiman/pictures/Lenin.jpg)

Chap watching - kibitzing - is Gorky.

Chap on the left is Lenin.

Not sure who Mr Yawny is.


Another player I shall be profiling in the future is Mikhail Botvinnik and he was a "reg" with the Soviet Elite (if that isn't an oxymoron)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 09, 2012, 08:38:28 PM
Hot off the press!

Round 7 has been completed and here are the games:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8539

Incredibly, it all went as I predicted (if only this were what happens when I put money on outcomes), with Aronian and Anand never really getting going, Caruana seemingly struggling to find the sparkle he had in Brazil and sharing the point with Karjakin...and Carlsen beating Vallejo-Pons to share the lead.

Carlsen's win was a king's side attack but not the sort we see in the ferocious attacks of Tal, Shirov and the like; it is more composed but equally effective.

The modern player has tremendous calculational ability and has no fear of complicated positions that seem to offer the Villain a chance for some counterplay. That isn't how they see it, though; they are for the mostpart happy that they aren't in any danger.

Tomorrow's games could well see three draws, which is what happened in the third round in Sao Paolo. Carlsen and Karjakin often have exciting games but there is rarely a victor.

Anand is starting to get silly with his draws. There isn't much to take from his games at the moment and, for a truly gifted player, it's a shame that he isn't showing more oomph.

Here is the pic for the Bilbao leg opening ceremony. Can you remember which is which?

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-aVYlygN4T14/UHQmbzgCGpI/AAAAAAAANz4/YcgMpUw801U/s1600/bilbao1.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 09, 2012, 09:21:50 PM
Silly me! The caption of course reads: "Spain holds its first chess-themed Guess Who? Championship"


On a personal note, I have a match tomorrow night, playing as a reserve for the team above mine. There's a chance depending on board order that I could play a wildly attacking player - probably the chess equivalent of Mad Turk. Not everything he does is sound but his ability is often underestimated and any whiff of a chance for blood will be mercilessly seized.

I have two possible counter-strategies: step up to the plate and back my own ability to go toe-to-toe, engaging in a slugfest (from baseball to boxing and back again  - sorry); or to play on the counter by playing solidly and inviting him on, intending to create small weaknesses in his position which I can exploit as the game progresses.

As with poker, it is rarely a good idea to lock in your strategy beforehand in chess, although preparation is never a bad thing.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 11, 2012, 08:38:50 PM
The games of Round 8 have yet to be reported in detail but I am aware that all three games were drawn (two sets of predictions in a row...weeeeee). So, it's as you were.

Some photos from the official site (Photos by Manu de Alba):

(http://www.bilbaomastersfinal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/20121011-07-pool-3-%C2%AC-ronda-133x200.jpg)

The anticipation is almost too much to bear for Magnus.




Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 11, 2012, 08:43:00 PM
(http://www.bilbaomastersfinal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/20121011-02-pool-3-%C2%AC-ronda-200x133.jpg)

And now they are underway.


 It is a common feature - especially for Carlsen and Aronian - that the players will have a wander after about half an hour to see what the other guys have been playing in the other games.

(http://www.bilbaomastersfinal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/20121011-05-pool-3-%C2%AC-ronda-133x200.jpg)

(http://www.bilbaomastersfinal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/20121011-06-pool-3-%C2%AC-ronda-133x200.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 11, 2012, 09:00:30 PM
I've mentioned this before but Anand is in a bit of a rut. He can't seem to win - or lose - a game. Eight consecutive draws is a little silly. It certainly can happen of course but a player who has been known throughout his career as creative and attacking is showing none of that now.

I would expect him to draw the remaining games from this tournament, in all honesty. He wouldn't want to lose as he'll finish below 50% and he's not showing signs he'll be winning any.

Tomorrow's game is against Carlsen and they generally draw their games.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on October 11, 2012, 09:15:34 PM
I've mentioned this before but Anand is in a bit of a rut. He can't seem to win - or lose - a game. Eight consecutive draws is a little silly. It certainly can happen of course but a player who has been known throughout his career as creative and attacking is showing none of that now.

I would expect him to draw the remaining games from this tournament, in all honesty. He wouldn't want to lose as he'll finish below 50% and he's not showing signs he'll be winning any.

Tomorrow's game is against Carlsen and they generally draw their games.

What has made such a dramatic change in style?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 11, 2012, 09:33:46 PM
On a personal note (to finish off this long set of posts), I found out yesterday afternoon that I was to be playing a different chap to the one I expected. This one I had a bit of a run in with last year, where he basically accused me of pulling a stroke. It was a misunderstanding but the chap is into his late 70s at least and quite frail. He was not to be convinced and left our club last year claiming that he was giving up chess.

In preparation for last night's game, I had a look at last year's record and learned some variations for the opening he plays as Black against 1.e4. He is a surprisingly strong tactical player and my equal in rating. He has been a much stronger player so was going to be a threat. I was satisfied that he would make a certain seven moves to start with. By preparing three possible lines, depending on what he did after move 7, I had the bases covered.

And so it proved. The game and the tactics were close to a game played in Illford in 1964 between two strong Brits of the day, Penrose and Clarke. It sounds like it was easy but far from it. It took a lot of hard work to make the right moves and keep the pressure on. I cramped my opponent, pushing him back to defend his position.

The trick then is to avoid letting him exchange pieces and not to open the position up with pawn swaps. Instead, I gradually got my pieces into the best positions and made threats against a few of his pawns, each time either forcing another pieces out of position or making him commit to a pawn move that would leave a gap behind.

After a threat to blast open his defences with a sacrifice, he had to concede more ground and his weaknesses became to sizeable and numerous. I found an elegant checkmate to wind the game up, which is always pleasing.

I know all this sounds general but I hope it explains a bit about the thought process.

Learning opening moves by rote is all well and good but there is a risk. What happens if the villain deviates? Say you know that villain will likely play 1.e4 and then king's knight out and then king's bishop out. So you learn what to do about that. What happens when he plays 1.e4 but then plays the bishop before the knight? Do you play the second move you were going to play? Or do you play the move you were going to play after he moved the knight (changing your move order)? Or do you play something different?

Let's make a poker comparison: Tikay says on Sky Poker one night that if a guy check-calls on a two-suit flop, then check calls the blank turn, then leads the blank river, he might well have missed his flush draw. You remember that. Good. You play at DTD one afternoon and you come up against Tal at the tables, who does just that. Now, you snap call with 22 and I show top set (hero, I know...). What you didn't take into account was that there was another player in the pot so I was leading into two players rather than one. A subtle change that might make no difference or might make all the difference.

Understanding > Knowledge


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on October 11, 2012, 09:39:28 PM
Can you post up your move list from your recent game? I'm sure like many I'm very intrigued.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 11, 2012, 09:45:33 PM
I've mentioned this before but Anand is in a bit of a rut. He can't seem to win - or lose - a game. Eight consecutive draws is a little silly. It certainly can happen of course but a player who has been known throughout his career as creative and attacking is showing none of that now.

I would expect him to draw the remaining games from this tournament, in all honesty. He wouldn't want to lose as he'll finish below 50% and he's not showing signs he'll be winning any.

Tomorrow's game is against Carlsen and they generally draw their games.

What has made such a dramatic change in style?

Good question, Baron.

The obvious answer would be confidence. However, he hasn't played well for some time and - from an outsider's perspective like what I have - he's been in decline for maybe 18 months.

His world championship series was criticised for being a bit dull but it was as much Gelfand's preparation neutralising Anand's game as anything else.

Is his interest in the game waning? That's hard to know. He isn't showing signs of that in press conferences and he is playing plenty of tournaments.

Maybe he's just got a bit stale. That can happen if you play too much and he is in demand.

He is still a very, very strong chess player.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on October 11, 2012, 09:48:11 PM
It seems today's players all get on very well. What are the greatest rivalries in chess in it's past and in today's game in your opinion?

Thanks Tal.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 11, 2012, 09:51:53 PM
It seems today's players all get on very well. What are the greatest rivalries in chess in it's past and in today's game in your opinion?

Thanks Tal.

Karpov v Korchnoi are my Liverpool v Manchester United rivalry from my childhood.  But the biggest one for me is Fischer v Spassky.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on October 11, 2012, 09:52:43 PM
It seems today's players all get on very well. What are the greatest rivalries in chess in it's past and in today's game in your opinion?

Thanks Tal.

Karpov v Korchnoi are my Liverpool v Manchester United rivalry from my childhood.  But the biggest one for me is Fischer v Spassky.

Who was Liverpool?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 11, 2012, 09:58:45 PM
It seems today's players all get on very well. What are the greatest rivalries in chess in it's past and in today's game in your opinion?

Thanks Tal.

Karpov v Korchnoi are my Liverpool v Manchester United rivalry from my childhood.  But the biggest one for me is Fischer v Spassky.

Who was Liverpool?

Karpov, obviously - he won ;)

(He had a bigger rivalry with Kasparov though really)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on October 11, 2012, 10:00:42 PM
It seems today's players all get on very well. What are the greatest rivalries in chess in it's past and in today's game in your opinion?

Thanks Tal.

Karpov v Korchnoi are my Liverpool v Manchester United rivalry from my childhood.  But the biggest one for me is Fischer v Spassky.

Who was Liverpool?

Karpov, obviously - he won ;)

(He had a bigger rivalry with Kasparov though really)

:D

Were you firmly in one camp I mean?

Yeah I've studied most of Karpov v Kasparov, mbsfn to be a Russian chess fan at that time.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 11, 2012, 10:07:12 PM
Kasparov was the current Barca side.

Simply the best ever, by a mile imo.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 11, 2012, 10:28:13 PM
Capablanca and Alekhine didn't get on too well and are regarded as two of the all-time greats in their own right. That would be your Liverpool v Man U, I reckon.

Fischer v the USSR would probably be the greatest rivalry. He was a man on his own at times against eight Soviet players. There were odd results and draws that meant that a Soviet player won and Fischer was never backward in coming forward to put his opinion in. He frequently said the Russians conspired and colluded. This would have been the mid sixties, so Botvinnik, Tal, Petrosian, Keres, Kotov, Smyslov, Spassky and a number of others, with Fischer the only threat sometimes.

With the Cold War in full swing and chess just about the National sport of Russia under communism, can you imagine how important victory was for both sides?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 11, 2012, 10:31:54 PM
Can you post up your move list from your recent game? I'm sure like many I'm very intrigued.

Will do but will prob have a look at it myself to see whether there was anything interesting I missed first. Will put it up in the next week.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 11, 2012, 10:48:16 PM
Can you post up your move list from your recent game? I'm sure like many I'm very intrigued.

Will do but will prob have a look at it myself to see whether there was anything interesting I missed first. Will put it up in the next week.

Post up the whole game, bit by bit, and let us amateurrecdonkfish examine it :D


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 11, 2012, 10:50:57 PM
Can you post up your move list from your recent game? I'm sure like many I'm very intrigued.

Will do but will prob have a look at it myself to see whether there was anything interesting I missed first. Will put it up in the next week.

Post up the whole game, bit by bit, and let us amateurrecdonkfish examine it :D

Lol will ensure it's there warts and all. If I have made an error, it's more instructive if I explain what it is and why it's an error :)

There won't be any editing. It won't be like an American war movie where the truth that the story is "based on" gets horribly contorted for the Director's own ends (U571 etc), I promise.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 12, 2012, 08:14:36 AM
There's a "player profile" that goes with the official tournament coverage. Here is Anand's:


Player portraits

Viswanathan Anand – the five-time champion wants more

There are already irrefutable arguments which confirm that Viswanathan Anand is one of the best chess players of all time:
five-time world champion in all possible formats (knockout, tournament and long duels), and his career is not over yet. At the age of 42 (and after becoming a first-time dad in 2011) he has just recaptured the throne and is looking for more victories. One of the few that elude him is a win at the Masters Final.

Anand works very hard on his technique, between six and nine hours a day. He probably lacks that ‘killer instinct’ that distinguishes Fisher, Karpov and Kasparov, but he looks after his physique as much as or even more than they do. “Yes, years ago I realized that it was important. I am convinced that my two hours a day at the gym when I am at home are essential in order to withstand the wear and tear of the tournaments”, he explains, in perfect Spanish. As for psychological balance, apart from his family and chess he is also passionate about astronomy and economy.

The amazing speed of his reflexes, which allows for a display of brilliant moves in tenths of a second, frustrated his opponents since his first appearance at Linares in 1991, where an entire game took him scarcely half an hour. “The thing is, if I think, I don’t play well,” was his peculiar explanation. Today Anand maintains the same humility he had back then and is highly regarded in India, where in 2000 he was named Sportsman of the Millennium by popular vote and paraded in a horse-drawn carriage, with Chennai’s (formerly Madras) traffic cut off by a crowd which enthusiastically mobbed him. He once underwent a test to show that the right side of his brain, the side that controls intuition, is that of a genius, to which he replied, “I couldn’t care less about my mindpower”.

After his great victories, he always first thanks his wife Aruna, who he says “always takes perfect care of a thousand details”, and next he thanks his main trainer, Peter Heine Nielsen from Denmark. “I owe many of my World Championship victories largely to his magnificent work”. Karpov and Kasparov were never that generous to the people who aided them.

After toppling Topalov at the Sofia championship in 2010, Anand made it clear that he was still hungry for success saying, “The day you get used to victory is the end. I am as happy now as the first time, especially because this has been my most difficult victory, in which I suffered until the end. I remain with the ambition and especially the will to keep enjoying chess. Logically, winning is a big part of that, and I suppose that one day it will end. Nevertheless, age 40 is not a special number for me; it is simply the one that comes after 39. My professional attitude for the next two years is the same one that I had before my duel with Topalov”.

Subsequent events have been consistent with these words, although not without suffering. For Anand it had to come down to quick games (after the 6-6 of the twelve assaults at normal speed) to defend his title against the very tough Israeli Boris Guelfand at Moscow’s Tretiákov Museum this spring. He is already 42 years old but his opinion has not changed. “I see no reason to retire now,” he says.

Anand will continue to stir up excitement in a country with 1.1 billion inhabitants. “There are already more than 700,000 Indians receiving chess classes; of those, 200,000 are enrolled in my World Champion’s Academy. I hope to contribute to increasing that number”.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on October 12, 2012, 08:41:13 PM
Just read a few quotes about Anand by his fellow players. Great stuff. Seems like one of chess' good guys and a genuinely great all time player to boot.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 14, 2012, 10:17:16 PM
Well, a fantastic denoument to the Grand Slam it most certainly was.

In the penultimate round, Carlsen stole the show with arguably the game of the tournament against Anand.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8547

If I may be so bold as to suggest you have a gander at the video on the above link, you will be talked through the action by GM Danny King. Carlsen played a move - as you will see - that stunned the crowd. What it lacks in objective drama (unlike, say, that Marshall queen move we saw a couple of weeks back), it more than makes up for in brilliance; the key to what makes it special is that it isn't an obvious move. That sounds silly. Let me explain: Carlsen is attacking and has a clear plan that those watching - even the GM commentators, perhaps even the World Champion opposite - will be expecting him to pursue. However, Magnus has found a way to unlock the Black defence with a subtle and delicate change in the position, which turns a level game into a completely won one. That he played this move almost immediately shows he had it prepared for a few moves and that makes it even more spectacular. Please watch the video and let Danny explain it better than I could.

Caruana also won, which meant that it was all down to the last round, with the two of them at the top and Aronian just half a point behind. With Carlsen playing Aronian and Caruana against the bottom seed Vallejo-Pons, it was the Italian-American who would be the paper favourite, even if Carlsen had course, distance and momentum in his favour.

Carlsen also had the opportunity, if he were to beat Aronian as Black, to get enough rating points to overcome Kasparov's highest ever rating, which would be headline news.

Results, games and reports are here:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8550

It was three draws, albeit very different types of draws, that brought an end to the tournament. Carlsen had to do a bit of defending against a stern test from Aronian, but passed with the colours we are now used to seeing. Caruana had already decided he wasn't going to press for a win and agreed a draw with Vallejo-Pons in no time at all. It's pretty disappointing to see that, especially with the sponsors and fans paying good money to see these guys playing. However, putting a different spin on it, Caruana could see that Aronian was the one with the edge, so decided to take half a point himself and, with it, the clubhouse lead.

Anand gave it a better bash than he has all tournament, but Karjakin held well to hold him to a draw.

This meant that Carlsen and Caruana finished first equal, but the title would need to be decided by two blitz games between them (one of each colour). Carlsen won the first by virtue of the same opening Kramnik famously used to beat Kasparov for the world crown (the Berlin Defence) in a long game and he won the second by virtue of Caruana making a mistake in his opening recollection.

2-0. Carlsen takes the title.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 14, 2012, 10:28:35 PM
Some cracking pics from the last day event, which you'll also find on the link above.

Aronian deep in thought. This is a common pose for chess players from 7-70:

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/grand%20slam%20masters/roundten-04.jpg)


It is also pretty common to see one player leaning back and relaxed, while the other is forward and fighting to survive.

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/grand%20slam%20masters/roundten-02.jpg)

I love the whole picture. The crowd in the background, the fact they are separated by the sheet of glass, the apparent serenity of it all.

And the final picture. Magnus in vitory hat:

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/grand%20slam%20masters/roundten-09.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on October 15, 2012, 03:15:37 PM
Caruana beating Aronian seemed to get little coverage considering the feat. He's had a hell of a tournament.

Where is the best place to watch live with a decent GM's commentary?

TIA


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 15, 2012, 03:31:02 PM
Caruana beating Aronian seemed to get little coverage considering the feat. He's had a hell of a tournament.

Where is the best place to watch live with a decent GM's commentary?

TIA

That's a fair point, as it was a good win. Caruana is the form horse in world chess right now. He is playing a lot and getting fantastic results. It is probably a bit like Everton (he says carefully) doing so well in the league atm. The results are good and the performances excellent, but it is the manner of the way Chelsea are winning that is getting the headlines.

Caruana's wins in this tournament have been a mixture of solid wins like the Aronian game and benefiting from some pretty big mistakes from the opposition like the Carlsen game in Sao Paolo.

It was the manner of Carlsen's win the other day that set the tongues wagging.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 15, 2012, 03:32:20 PM
As for your other question, the Play Chess server is a subscription site but has live commentary on the big tournaments. That aside, there will usually be a review a day or two later on you tube


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 15, 2012, 10:51:17 PM
Hello

Well, you asked nicely, so here is my game from the other night. I had the White pieces. Don’t worry too much about the opening. It’s a pretty well known variation of the French Defence. Black played a bit too passively. It is a fine balance in this variation, because he has to consolidate and will necessarily allow White a bit of extra space. He has to be ready to open the centre up at some stage to bring the position level. I should point out that the computer has the position as being technically equal as far in as move 20, which I found a little surprising.

1.e4 e6
2.d4 d5
3.Nd2 c5
4.dxc5 Bxc5
5.Bd3 Nc6
6.Ngf3 Nf6
7.Qe2 Nb4
8.0–0 Nxd3
9.cxd3 0–0
10.e5 Nd7
11.Nb3 Be7
12.Nbd4 Re8
13.a3 Nf8
14.b4 Bd7
15.Bd2 Rc8
16.Rfc1 Rxc1+
17.Rxc1 f6
18.Nb3 b6
19.Nbd4 Qa8
20.Rc7 Bd8
21.Rc1 Qb7
22.b5 fxe5
23.Nxe5 Bf6
24.Bf4 Rc8
25.Rxc8 Qxc8
26.Ndc6 Qb7
27.Qh5 g6
28.Qf3 Bg7

I played one more move and my opponent resigned. I will leave my last move out of the record, so that you can find this yourself. If you do find it, can you find the answer if Black had instead taken the knight on e5?

As a follow up, have a look at the position after move 20. I played Rc7 with the intention of playing a specific move if he played the natural-looking Rc8. He saw what I was up to and made a decent response, although Qb8 was better. Can you see what I was up to?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 16, 2012, 12:38:23 AM
For those who don't fancy playing through an amateur's game, can you tell me who this grandmaster is?

(http://files.chesscomfiles.com/images_users/tiny_mce/billwall/1974_Walter_Browne.jpg)

Here he is more recently:

(http://files.chesscomfiles.com/images_users/tiny_mce/billwall/browne.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 16, 2012, 08:12:46 AM
Endgames are very much underrated, even by some good club players. If you have an edge in the endgame, it can be a serious advantage for the rest of the game, as you don't fear the position simplifying.

Quite often, you see draws at a club and county level simply because the position is level, even though there is plenty of life left in it. In a way it is like chopping heads up because, although some people say there is no luck in chess, if you don't know whether your opponent is any good in the endgame, getting into one could lead to triumph or disaster!

Here, you get a Grandmaster and commentator walk you through four recent excellent examples of the breed:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8557

For those who are yet to be familiar with the notation (so my game above just looks like gobbledygook - fair enough, say I), these are JavaScript, so you can play through the moves and see the notes.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 16, 2012, 08:41:06 PM
Our chess/poker man is the American Walter Browne.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Browne

I know very little about him. Seems an interesting character. Would I be right in saying he was one of the people who was on the TV when chess was on Channel 4?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 17, 2012, 06:52:32 PM
Chess on TV

http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/television.html

A fabulous article from the incomparable Edward Winter's Chess Notes.

(http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/dias/television1.jpg)

Did this position lead to a TV murder? Columbo knows.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on October 20, 2012, 08:57:46 AM
was your move Bh6 ?  , followed bt Qf7 & Ne7 looks good

btw he did have better of the opening but putting is bishops back jusrt closed his position in


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 20, 2012, 09:17:57 AM
was your move Bh6 ?  , followed bt Qf7 & Ne7 looks good

btw he did have better of the opening but putting is bishops back jusrt closed his position in

My move wasn't Bh6.

Bh6 is the delightful answer if he had instead played 28...Bxe5, if that's what you mean, because 29...Bg7 is met by 30.Ne7+ Kh8 31.Qf7 with mate to follow next move on g8.

As for the opening, he did play too passively. The problem is that he has to find a pawn break to make space for his pieces but f6 is difficult without getting lots of protection on the e6 pawn.

I think what would likely have happened if he had played Bb6 instead of Be7, say, is that my knights would still have looked after the centre and his light squared bishop would have been inferior to the knights.

As a general point to everyone else, closed positions (ie, where lots of pawns are still left on) tend to favour knights over bishops. So, if you have knights rather than bishops after an exchange, don't look to swap lots of pawns off; keep your patience and keep the bishops with nowhere to go.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on October 20, 2012, 10:26:15 AM
was your move Bh6 ?  , followed bt Qf7 & Ne7 looks good

btw he did have better of the opening but putting is bishops back jusrt closed his position in

My move wasn't Bh6.

Bh6 is the delightful answer if he had instead played 28...Bxe5, if that's what you mean, because 29...Bg7 is met by 30.Ne7+ Kh8 31.Qf7 with mate to follow next move on g8.

29..Bxe5 & 30. Qf8#

29. .. Bxc6 may work 30.bxB..Qe7 31.BxB & think blacks ok apart from the passed pawn


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 20, 2012, 11:09:31 AM
was your move Bh6 ?  , followed bt Qf7 & Ne7 looks good

btw he did have better of the opening but putting is bishops back jusrt closed his position in

My move wasn't Bh6.

Bh6 is the delightful answer if he had instead played 28...Bxe5, if that's what you mean, because 29...Bg7 is met by 30.Ne7+ Kh8 31.Qf7 with mate to follow next move on g8.

29..Bxe5 & 30. Qf8#

29. .. Bxc6 may work 30.bxB..Qe7 31.BxB & think blacks ok apart from the passed pawn

I think I've misunderstood. The moves as I wrote them ended with 28...Bg7
29. Ne7+ and Black resigned because, when he moves the king into the corner, I play Nf7 and mate.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on October 20, 2012, 01:05:37 PM
was your move Bh6 ?  , followed bt Qf7 & Ne7 looks good

btw he did have better of the opening but putting is bishops back jusrt closed his position in

My move wasn't Bh6.

Bh6 is the delightful answer if he had instead played 28...Bxe5, if that's what you mean, because 29...Bg7 is met by 30.Ne7+ Kh8 31.Qf7 with mate to follow next move on g8.

29..Bxe5 & 30. Qf8#

29. .. Bxc6 may work 30.bxB..Qe7 31.BxB & think blacks ok apart from the passed pawn

I think I've misunderstood. The moves as I wrote them ended with 28...Bg7
29. Ne7+ and Black resigned because, when he moves the king into the corner, I play Nf7 and mate.


just put it into fritz , 29. Bh6 & Be8 holds it

nice combination with the knights , well played


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 23, 2012, 08:39:44 AM
Hello

I've been away this weekend, trying - unsuccessfully - to make my fortune at the poker tables. I should have known better, of course.

Anyhoo, a little amuse bouche for you this morning. Last week, I put up a copy of a game I played where the villain got his pieces in too defensive a position, which left him with little space to move around in.

One of the best known example of a positional idea is a BAD BISHOP. Before you start making jokes that could take you headfirst to Hell in a handcart, click on the link below.

http://blog.chess.com/mauerblume/the-different-value-of-minor-pieces-good-knight-vs-bad-bishop

You will often see in a game - or in one you play yourself - a bishop pin a knight against either the queen or king (this means that the knight is attacked but can't move, else the bishop will have clear passage to take the queen, for example). If the bishop then takes the knight, the bishop will be recaptured, so which remaining piece is better, as one side has an extra bishop and the other an extra knight?

The link above explains when a knight can be better than a bishop.

If you did play through my game last week (and, by the way, if someone is able to convert it to a format on here that everyone can play through, that - I'm sure - would be much appreciated), you might enjoy seeing a game I used as the basis of my preparation for my match last week.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1106016

Black gets left with a bishop that looks like it is OK, but the pawns that are fixed on d5 and e6 mean it has very few diagonals along which to operate. Not only does this give him few lines of attack, it makes it easy for White to defend. Meanwhile the knights rule the roost.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on October 23, 2012, 11:52:43 AM
Hi Tal,

I thought the very basic theory was, closed game knight better, open game bishop better?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 23, 2012, 12:27:27 PM
Hi Tal,

I thought the very basic theory was, closed game knight better, open game bishop better?

That's a fair generalisation, but of course depends on blinds and stack sizes, etc.

As another rule of thumb, it's often better to have bishops rather than knights in the end game, especially if you have both bishops. There are always plenty of exceptions though.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 23, 2012, 01:05:39 PM
Hi Tal,

I thought the very basic theory was, closed game knight better, open game bishop better?

That's a fair generalisation, but of course depends on blinds and stack sizes, etc.

As another rule of thumb, it's often better to have bishops rather than knights in the end game, especially if you have both bishops. There are always plenty of exceptions though.

It's all about mobility. On an empty board, the bishop has lots more squares to go to than the knight, so it is likely to be much more effective. To pokerise it, the bishop has a wider range.

As you add more pawns (bearing in mind you often defend a pawn with another pawn, so they will be on the same colour squares), so the range of the bishop decreases, if it is on the same colour as the pawns. The knight is less affected, as he can visit both colours of square and he can hop over any barriers.

As the one with the bishop, Capablanca said that you should look to fix your pawns on the opposite coloured squares to your bishop. Although this means you can't defend them with your bishop, you get three advantages:

1. You don't impede your own bishop;
2. You can attack/defend the square that the knight wants to use to attack your pawns (remember that, to attack a black square, the Knight must be on a white square); and
3. You have fixed your opponent's pawns on the same coloured square as your bishop, so he can hopefully pop round and gobble them up at his leisure.

A neat positional trick is to put a knight three squares away from a bishop, as it cuts out a lot of the bishop's possible squares.

Rangemerging a bishop. You heard it here first.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 23, 2012, 02:13:33 PM
When playing the French defence, the most important thing (more than bishops or knights) is the patience of a saint.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on October 23, 2012, 03:02:19 PM
When playing the French defence, the most important thing (more than bishops or knights) is the patience of a saint.

I'm not keen on the French defence,

tried it once but all my pawns went on strike demanding more holiday and better pay


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 23, 2012, 04:17:45 PM
Black's objective from the opening is to obtain parity, because White gets the first move.

The French is generally seen as a slow and steady way of doing it, but we've seen how easy it is to be passive and give up any hope of getting level.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 23, 2012, 04:53:59 PM
Black's objective from the opening is to obtain parity, because White gets the first move.

The French is generally seen as a slow and steady way of doing it, but we've seen how easy it is to be passive and give up any hope of getting level.


Swashbuckling openings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Watching grass grow  ;)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 23, 2012, 05:30:46 PM
Black's objective from the opening is to obtain parity, because White gets the first move.

The French is generally seen as a slow and steady way of doing it, but we've seen how easy it is to be passive and give up any hope of getting level.


Swashbuckling openings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Watching grass grow  ;)

Yes, the answer to the Ruy Lopez that bears Marshall's name is generally avoided by the elite GMs in competition when they are White, because of how sharp and dangerous it is.

I've buckled many a swash over the board in my time, I freely admit.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 24, 2012, 08:36:09 AM
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Chess_Championship_2006

Chess in the last 50 years or so has a rich history of debate, disagreement and dispute about who is the World Champion. You'd think it would be an easy exercise - just hold a tournament, invite the best players in the world to it and give the winner a laurel wreath.

Oh no.

Where would you hold such a tournament? What if that gives X home advantage? Who makes the decisions? Him? Well he's corrupt so fat chance!

Anyway, chess world champs historically get a free pass to the final match, so they shouldn't be involved in the tournament. But that isn't what happens in football, rugby, cricket...

There have been breakaway world championships, unifications and breakaways again. Now we have one world champ - Anand.

His predecessor, Vladimir Kramnik, was the man to dethrone Garry Kasparov. Kramnik played the top-rated player of the time Vessilin Topalov in 2006 in what was to become the most farcical championship match since Fischer v Spassky.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=52037

The two still don't shake hands and, funnily enough, don't play in the same tournament very often.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: smashedagain on October 24, 2012, 11:54:11 AM
That is a link to tips for Tikay? Have I missed something


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 24, 2012, 12:02:03 PM
That is a link to tips for Tikay? Have I missed something

Brilliant!!!

This is known in chess circles as a blunder. Duly amended. The wiki page at the top is the most thorough but the link I have now added in the edit gives some of the details of the games as well.

Good to know the thread has such eagle-eyed viewers :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: smashedagain on October 24, 2012, 12:03:32 PM
Lol. Thought it might be a test to see who is reading. Get whooshed a lot in here but do enjoy the read


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 25, 2012, 10:40:29 PM
Right, it has been a while since I gave you a player profile and I know that those who don’t have as much interest in or understanding of the game itself nevertheless enjoy hearing about the great players in chess history.

(http://www.chessgames.com/portraits/paulkeres.jpg)

Paul Keres was born in Estonia in 1916. Students of European history will know that this was a country that had a number of owners in the first half of the Twentieth Century and the name above the door had a huge impact on his chess career.

Keres was a skilled mathematician and was fascinated by chess, collecting his own dossier of almost 1,000 games from newspapers and reports while learning the game, writing them out by hand.

He was soon established as an excellent player in his area and then his country, taking the Estonian championship in 1935. I have previously mentioned the Chess Olympiad that took place a few months ago. Well, Estonia’s finest was the top board in 1935 and caused a stir for his aggressive play. This was his first appearance on the big stage and he was probably in the top ten players in the world for the next thirty years.

Three years later, he won the AVRO tournament of 1938, which is regarded by some as being the strongest tournament ever played (all things being relative, of course), as Alekhine, Euwe, Capablanca, Botvinnik, Reshevsky and Flohr trailed behind.

In 1939, other matters took over and Keres was in Argentina, winning 12 of his 19 games (drawing 5 and losing only 2) for Estonia in the Olympiad, when war broke out. He managed to get home a little while later, first going through the Netherlands to play a match against Euwe, which he narrowly won - against the odds, it should be said, as Euwe was a more established match player and, we shall not forget, a previous World Champ.

The AVRO tournament victory should have given him a shot at the world title, but of course circumstances were against him and the Alekhine match never happened. That isn’t to say chess stopped; just that it was too difficult to organise.

One consequence of the time was that Estonia became part of the Soviet Union and, so, Keres became part of the great Soviet team; the Harlem Globetrotters of chess. In 1941, Estonia came under Nazi control. By the end of the war, it was Soviet again. I can’t even begin to imagine how hard that would have been for those who lived there at the time, especially someone who would have been hugely popular in a nation of just a couple of million. His interview in 1942 to a Nazi newspaper was used against him, when he tried to escape Western Europe two years later. He was very fortunate to avoid deportation or worse and a Latvian player of the day called Petrovs was put in detention and died in prison.

In 1945, the USSR played the USA in a radio chess match. He would be an obvious choice for the ten man team, but was excluded and it is likely that this wasn’t a complete coincidence.

He did, however, win the Estonian Championship in 1945 without losing any of his 15 games and, in doing so, finished above some excellent “visiting” Soviets.

His dues paid, he was invited to return to the Soviet team in 1946 to play a radio match against Great Britain and you can see the details and some of the games here: http://amici.iccf.com/issues/Issue_07/issue_07_the_radio_match_grb-urss_1946.html

I say he paid his dues. It was clear that Keres was one of the very best players in the world, so he had an invite to every big event going. What remains a point of debate is whether he was able to make decisions for himself in those tournaments. Keres was the runner-up in the Candidates tournament (where the winner plays the World Champ) on four consecutive occasions and there are a number of stories involving him (albeit not only him in the Soviet era), where orders from above are rumoured to have been given, such that players such as Keres were to ensure that a certain player won the tournament.

No one will know for sure whether Keres played his very best in every game of every tournament, or whether, had he won a Candidates tournament, he would have won the world title. What is known is that he is regarded by many as being the best player never to have won a world title. He was the three time Soviet champion and has an incredible record in Olympiads (97 wins, 51 draws and 13 losses).

He died in 1975, shortly after arriving in Helsinki from Vancouver (where he had just won a tournament) and he did not make it back to Tallinn.

His funeral in Estonia drew more than 100,000 people.

(http://www.chessbase.com/images2/2004/keres03.jpg)

He was voted the Estonian sportsman of the Century in 2000 (admittedly, I’m struggling to think of the second and third, but this was someone who had been dead for a generation by then, after all).

He was regarded by his peers as one of the nice guys. He had few if any enemies and some have said this was partly why he didn’t dominate the game – Reshevsky suggested he lacked the killer instinct. Over the board, he beat nine World Champions (no one else has done that) and had positive records against Capablanca, Tal and Euwe. Not quite sure myself what more of a killer instinct is needed, to be honest!

Here’s a beauty of a game. He takes down no less than Capablanca with a magical combination: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1013271

(http://chessreview.co.uk/i/1959-bled/keres-fischer.jpg)

Here, Keres plays a young Bobby Fischer in 1959.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: skolsuper on October 26, 2012, 12:49:49 AM
1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. Nf3 Be7 6. Be3 O-O 7. Bd3 f5 8. Ne2 c5 9. b3 cxd4 10. Nfxd4 Nc5 11. g4 Nxd3+ 12. Qxd3 Nc6 13. Nxc6 bxc6 14. h3 a5 15. f4 Ba6 16. Qd2 Bh4+ 17. Bf2 Bxf2+ 18. Kxf2 Bxe2 19. Kxe2 Rb8 20. a3 c5 21. Kf3 Qc7 22. Rab1 d4 23. Qd3 Qc6+ 24. Kg3 Qd5 25. h4 fxg4 26. Kxg4 Qg2+ 27. Qg3 Qxg3+ 28. Kxg3 Rbd8 29. Rhd1 Rd5 30. c4 dxc3 e.p. 31. Rxd5 exd5 32. Rc1 d4 33. Kf3 Rb8 34. e6 Kf8 35. f5 Rxb3 36. Ke4 Rxa3 37. Ke5 Ke7 38. Rf1 c2 39. f6+ gxf6+ 40. Rxf6 c1=Q 41. Rf7+ Ke8 42. Kd6 Qh6 43. Re7+ Kf8 44. Rf7+ Kg8 45. Ke7 Re3 46. Rf8+ Qxf8+ 0-1

Hey Tal,

Just want to say I was in on page 1 of this thread and check it every day, thanks very much for posting. It has even got me playing a bit and definitely improving, although I am still a rec.

Not sure if you can parse the above, but if you can I would like some advice on this game. It stayed very even after the opening and I found myself with really no idea how to force an edge. I've run it through a computer and can see where my main errors are and (mostly) why they're errors, but even the computer's suggested moves weren't very +ve scoring and so I am wondering if there was anything I could have done to win this game, or after the opening am I just hoping my opponent makes a mistake? I'm white btw.

edit: 30. c4 was my attempt at a sacrifice, after that didn't work out I knew I was just trying to rescue a draw. Am interested if you can see any positive attacking moves before that one, not too bothered about after.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 26, 2012, 12:59:22 AM
I'll have a look over the weekend and get back to you, sir.

Always happy to do things like this. What makes this thread work IMO is its diversity. I try to throw a bit of everything in it, so any games you have that you want a view on can only add to the fun.

Open to anyone else to comment, of course.

Thank you for your loyalty :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on October 26, 2012, 01:22:51 PM
Out of interest Tal do you have to input this in to a replayer and watch the game or can you just advise from the text?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 26, 2012, 01:33:54 PM
Out of interest Tal do you have to input this in to a replayer and watch the game or can you just advise from the text?

Easiest way is to have a physical chess board next to you and follow the moves on that. People who play a lot at a decent standard can follow the game from just the notation without a board. Been a while since I could follow a whole game accurately like that and now I'd start forgetting where pieces are after about ten moves in.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 26, 2012, 01:37:38 PM
Out of interest Tal do you have to input this in to a replayer and watch the game or can you just advise from the text?

I used to be a lot better at visualising games and positions. Playing less chess and more poker has had an impact on that, though!

I have a basic idea of the position from the text moves but if I'm going to give any advice or views on it, I'd want at least to play it out in a board, as I am not as confident in my analysis of positions in my head as I would have been a few years back.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 26, 2012, 01:51:15 PM
Tal's a better player than me so I'd wait to hear his opinions, but I'm not keen on our opening line for this one at all.  You lose the attacking momentum early on, and also fail to castle your king, and that leaves you with a pretty weak position defensively - and I'd much prefer black's situation here than white's.

I'm also not keen on 4. e5 - especially when you decline to take his pawn after 7. .. f5.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: skolsuper on October 26, 2012, 04:02:45 PM
Tal's a better player than me so I'd wait to hear his opinions, but I'm not keen on our opening line for this one at all.  You lose the attacking momentum early on, and also fail to castle your king, and that leaves you with a pretty weak position defensively - and I'd much prefer black's situation here than white's.

I'm also not keen on 4. e5 - especially when you decline to take his pawn after 7. .. f5.

Excellent, cheers for taking a look, yeah I was wondering if my lack of opportunities stemmed from the opening, but afaik this is all very standard, right? Is your preferred opening totally different from this or could you suggest a better move for #4?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 26, 2012, 04:08:20 PM
Tal's a better player than me so I'd wait to hear his opinions, but I'm not keen on our opening line for this one at all.  You lose the attacking momentum early on, and also fail to castle your king, and that leaves you with a pretty weak position defensively - and I'd much prefer black's situation here than white's.

I'm also not keen on 4. e5 - especially when you decline to take his pawn after 7. .. f5.

Excellent, cheers for taking a look, yeah I was wondering if my lack of opportunities stemmed from the opening, but afaik this is all very standard, right? Is your preferred opening totally different from this or could you suggest a better move for #4?

It's not an opening I'd play at all - but I'm a bit weird as far as openings go.  It's probably a very standard line for white playing against the French, and not an opening I've studied in detail as I always avoided playing against it.

Let me have another look, as if it's a standard line (and not taking the pawn when black plays f5) then it must be theoretically sound.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 26, 2012, 04:39:03 PM
Yeah, apparently it's a very standard line - but just looking through the discussions about it I wanted to gouge my eyes out with a rusty spoon.  The French Defence is like playing fixed limit poker with my gran, and she died about 10 years ago.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: skolsuper on October 26, 2012, 04:52:52 PM
Yeah, apparently it's a very standard line - but just looking through the discussions about it I wanted to gouge my eyes out with a rusty spoon.  The French Defence is like playing fixed limit poker with my gran, and she died about 10 years ago.

Have I taken this game down the boring road or is it mainly black's fault? Is there a way I could force the villain out of his comfort zone? I completely agree it wasnt a fun game but I was stuck for ideas the whole time.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 26, 2012, 04:55:53 PM
Yeah, apparently it's a very standard line - but just looking through the discussions about it I wanted to gouge my eyes out with a rusty spoon.  The French Defence is like playing fixed limit poker with my gran, and she died about 10 years ago.

Have I taken this game down the boring road or is it mainly black's fault? Is there a way I could force the villain out of his comfort zone? I completely agree it wasnt a fun game but I was stuck for ideas the whole time.

It's black's choice to play 1. .. e6, so yeah it's his fault.  It looks like there are options for you to move it away from the traditional French Defence lines that end up in a boring 0-0 draw, but a lot of these can cause problems if you are up against a very strong player (but give you opportunities if they're not). Again, this is just stuff I've read today whilst scouting some chess forums, the way I'd avoid it is by playing 1. d4 as white (as I always do) ;)

Tal will probably be on soon to give you some useful advice :D


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on October 26, 2012, 08:40:07 PM
not looked through all the game yet , agree don't like e5 much but in general prefer to make a plan in the games , after he castled king side , I would look to attack his King , so get your king safe on Queen side first

as played after he played Qg2 , Qg3 gives him a forced mate after h5 , your king has to take & you drop your Queen & followed by Rook f5#


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: skolsuper on October 26, 2012, 08:56:51 PM
not looked through all the game yet , agree don't like e5 much but in general prefer to make a plan in the games , after he castled king side , I would look to attack his King , so get your king safe on Queen side first

as played after he played Qg2 , Qg3 gives him a forced mate after h5 , your king has to take & you drop your Queen & followed by Rook f5#

Ty mate, yeah the computer popped that mate up as well, I had no idea at the time! ;whistle;

Luckily the other guy missed it as well and I got a 2nd bite of the cherry...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 26, 2012, 10:39:25 PM
Hi Skolsuper

Ok. I’ve had a good look at your game. The opening was basically fine. I really wouldn’t worry about trying to force something out of the opening. Imagine you’re playing a nit heads up. You can raise every button and play as aggro as you like, but if the villain isn’t going to play along you can only pick up the blinds. In some games – including some variations of the French – you have to accept that the villain is going to play solidly and you will need to build your winning game, rather than just trying to plough through him.

To address a point you’ve made about move one, 1.e4 generally leads to more aggressive than games than 1.d4. If you think about it, you are exposing the king straight away, so there is usually more of an edge to the position. There are some really sharp king’s pawn openings and variations, so if you want to play sharp stuff, my advice would be to stick to playing 1.e4.

Turning to the specifics:
9.b3 is a bit wonky, because you have quite a nice position up to that point, but space is at a premium. One of the best tricks from a positional sense in these openings - where there are lots of fixed pawns - is to work out which is your better bishop. It is often the one on the squares you’re pawns aren’t. In other words, it’s the one on d3. To keep it being a good piece, you:
a) want to keep it on the board, because villain’s pawns keeping his own light-squared bishop blocked in and
b) want to put your pawns on black squares to optimise the range of your best bishop.
So, to put it in PHA terms: 9c3 >>> 9.b3

When Black captures on d4, you have to take back with the other knight, because otherwise the pawn on e5 is hanging. He can’t play 10…f4 then, because you are threatening to take on e6 with your knight and fork queen and rook. This is one of the features of a 1.e4 opening: there are lots of little tactics in these positions and there is absolutely no time to waste, once the position opens up. But, the villain missed that he could take the e-pawn, so we dodge that bullet.

We can then castle happily, because we have a pretty decent set of pieces, we are ahead in development and Black still has to work out how he’s going to get that bishop on c8 into the game. By playing 11.g4, we decide we can go for the throat. There’s a logic for it, because Black is a long way from being in good shape with his pieces and his king’s knight is miles away from looking after the king. Against that, though, we aren’t ready yet to open the game up. If you had castled queenside and had a rook on g1, different ball game.

From that point, the trouble was you had lost a lot of the impetus in the position, which meant that Black could get back into the game, open up the diagonals for his bishops and get himself out of being cramped. If you remember my game the other week, that was a French defence not dissimilar to this one, but the key to my win was that I kept him cramped until I was ready to open the position on my terms. This is what you need to do; just keep your patience and finish your development.

25. h4 was a blunder and, when you recapture on g4 with the king, you might have seen since that Black has a forced checkmate in 5 moves. When you put your queen on g3 to block the check of Qg2, Black can play h5+ and it looks more than a little unpleasant from there.
 
As a general appraisal, a sample size of one is a bit tough, but I’d say you have a better grasp of the basics than your opponent, who was a little eager to swap off for my taste. If you keep your patience in the opening and the early middlegame, such that you can finish developing your pieces and castle, a plan will be easier to execute.

We all do it, but the point is that an attack is much, much easier when you have all your pieces developed. In this type of opening, although your pieces are a bit short of room, the villains’ are in much worse shape, so leave him with the problems and play simple moves that help your position.

Is any of that useful?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 26, 2012, 11:35:59 PM
This will be geeky, so let's get that out of the way, straight away!

Have a look at this game: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1471200

Gufeld v Spassky, played in Leningrad in 1960. The future world champion, Boris Spassky, is beaten by your opening. Gufeld's light squared bishop is a monster of a piece, because he allows the position to stay tight and Black remains cramped until it is too late. Spassky was a brilliant tactician, but he was on the receiving end in this game. White castles and then looks to attack the enemy king with his pieces, rather than with his pawns (note that you generally have to make a choice between pieces or pawns as the main thrust of a kingside attack, because the pawns will get in the way of a fast-paced, crash-bang flurry at the king and could leave you exposed yourself if it doesn't work).

Cliffs: stick with the opening you've played, as long as you're comfortable with it, because there is plenty of life in it.  


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 27, 2012, 12:52:31 AM
Great post Tal.

But d4 is still the nuts ;)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: skolsuper on October 27, 2012, 01:41:48 AM
Fantastic post. Unfortunately any chess discussion between us is going to be a bit one-sided for a while, all I can say in reply is thanks for the help  :)up


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: millidonk on October 27, 2012, 06:27:58 AM
wake-up at 5.30 on a Saturday morning and first thing I do is continue with some chess games... oh how things have changed. I play on chess.com for android. it's incred. I got abs destroyed playing 10min games which saw my score go down to 800, now play the 24hr-3 days per move games and my results are improving. quite comfortable vs 1400-1600 guys now.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on October 27, 2012, 09:59:52 AM
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Chess_Championship_2006

Chess in the last 50 years or so has a rich history of debate, disagreement and dispute about who is the World Champion. You'd think it would be an easy exercise - just hold a tournament, invite the best players in the world to it and give the winner a laurel wreath.

Oh no.

Where would you hold such a tournament? What if that gives X home advantage? Who makes the decisions? Him? Well he's corrupt so fat chance!

Anyway, chess world champs historically get a free pass to the final match, so they shouldn't be involved in the tournament. But that isn't what happens in football, rugby, cricket...

There have been breakaway world championships, unifications and breakaways again. Now we have one world champ - Anand.

His predecessor, Vladimir Kramnik, was the man to dethrone Garry Kasparov. Kramnik played the top-rated player of the time Vessilin Topalov in 2006 in what was to become the most farcical championship match since Fischer v Spassky.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=52037

The two still don't shake hands and, funnily enough, don't play in the same tournament very often.

Fascinating. Do you think there was cheating going on?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 27, 2012, 10:00:37 AM
wake-up at 5.30 on a Saturday morning and first thing I do is continue with some chess games... oh how things have changed. I play on chess.com for android. it's incred. I got abs destroyed playing 10min games which saw my score go down to 800, now play the 24hr-3 days per move games and my results are improving. quite comfortable vs 1400-1600 guys now.

Sigh, installing...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 27, 2012, 10:57:02 AM
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Chess_Championship_2006

Chess in the last 50 years or so has a rich history of debate, disagreement and dispute about who is the World Champion. You'd think it would be an easy exercise - just hold a tournament, invite the best players in the world to it and give the winner a laurel wreath.

Oh no.

Where would you hold such a tournament? What if that gives X home advantage? Who makes the decisions? Him? Well he's corrupt so fat chance!

Anyway, chess world champs historically get a free pass to the final match, so they shouldn't be involved in the tournament. But that isn't what happens in football, rugby, cricket...

There have been breakaway world championships, unifications and breakaways again. Now we have one world champ - Anand.

His predecessor, Vladimir Kramnik, was the man to dethrone Garry Kasparov. Kramnik played the top-rated player of the time Vessilin Topalov in 2006 in what was to become the most farcical championship match since Fischer v Spassky.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=52037

The two still don't shake hands and, funnily enough, don't play in the same tournament very often.

Fascinating. Do you think there was cheating going on?

In short, no. I don't think there are many people who believe Topalov's allegation and it is the only situation that I'm aware of where Kramnik's integrity has been questioned.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 27, 2012, 08:45:55 PM
I spent this afternoon playing for Warwickshire in the final of the Midland region county championships for players under 180 ECF (under 2040 ish in the international ratings). Managed to win in a game that went down to the wire (just under 4 intense hours). Thin bit out the way...

The rules say you have to have your 'phone off during play or you lose the game. It's a simple, strict liability rule.

After the "toilet-gate" incident I mentioned the other day (seriously, why add Gate to every incident? Watergate had nothing to do with water), there was a disqualification in the German Bundesliga when a Grandmaster kept going to the toilet during a game. Suspicions were raised and he refused to show the arbiter his 'phone.

Consequently, the arbiter decided that was enough and the player was disqualified.

http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8586


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on October 28, 2012, 02:22:26 PM
Is cheating something that's ever happened at the top level?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 28, 2012, 03:27:47 PM
Is cheating something that's ever happened at the top level?


There has been a big scandal in France recently, as it happens.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8370

Over the years, there have been allegations of collusion and issues over everything you could possibly consider arguing over. Chess players aren't the most well-rounded bunch, en masse.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on October 28, 2012, 08:47:51 PM
A question for the semi-pros....

How do you think the WCC should be decided?

On one hand I completely understand the frustration of the likes of Karpov who lost his FIDE title in 99 without losing a match vs a challenger as it was decided in a round robin tournament format.

On the other I can completely see why it would be extremely frustrating for the clear best player in the world (ie Kasparov 2001-2004) that he doesn't get to be world champion due to politics and financing meaning you can't get the games arranged.

Should the champ need to be beaten by the challenger like in boxing? Or should a fresh tournament decide the reigning world champion every year like in most other sports?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 28, 2012, 09:03:21 PM
A question for the semi-pros....

How do you think the WCC should be decided?

On one hand I completely understand the frustration of the likes of Karpov who lost his FIDE title in 99 without losing a match vs a challenger as it was decided in a round robin tournament format.

On the other I can completely see why it would be extremely frustrating for the clear best player in the world (ie Kasparov 2001-2004) that he doesn't get to be world champion due to politics and financing meaning you can't get the games arranged.

Should the champ need to be beaten by the challenger like in boxing? Or should a fresh tournament decide the reigning world champion every year like in most other sports?


Ah the world championship question!

It's a real opinion-divider among even the elite these days.

There are two questions you're asking, though (whether intentionally or otherwise). The first one is that there have over the last 30 years been two world champions - a sort of official and unofficial champion - which has been largely due to the arguments some players have had with the governing body. It has been through make-ups and break-ups but the championships have been unified with Mr Anand.

Here's a helpful timeline for those who have no idea what I'm wittering on about:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/World_Chess_Champions_timeline.svg/500px-World_Chess_Champions_timeline.svg.png)

Red means undisputed; blue means classical (official) and green means FIDE. When people speak of who was the world champion, it's the red and the blue that count. Not that I wouldn't call myself the world champ, were I to have won the FIDE title!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Chess_Championship

The above will give you the details.


The second question is the main one - how should the title be decided. Magnus Carlsen has been probably the most vocal on this subject in the past couple of years, as he wants a tournament like you see in most sports. Others prefer the traditional method, more akin to boxing, where you only get the title if you beat the champ in an officially-sanctioned title bout.

Personally, I like the idea of a match (in other words, the status quo), but the way that the challenger is decided is much better as a Candidates tournament than the set-up from the last cycle, which was a knockout. The last world championship was a bit silly. An out of form champion against a player who was barely in the top ten in the world.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 28, 2012, 10:29:44 PM
A few interesting things happened in my game on Saturday and I thought I could share them without resorting to chess (at least in the sense that I shalln’t recant the game itself). This will be more of a story, which will perhaps move between Wodehouse, Self and Beano, but, I trust you appreciate, will be eternally Tal. This has tl;dr potential, but that’s up to you :)

County chess is largely middle-aged and older men who play (there is the odd under-30 player) and you play up to four games a year, each on a Saturday, for up to four hours a time (first 36 moves to be played in 90 minutes each; 30 minutes then to be added to each clock for the completion of the game). Each team has 16 players and they are ranked in order of strength, such that your best player plays their best and so on. A coin is tossed to decide who gets white on the odd/even boards and off you go. In theory, you play someone of equal – or close – strength to yourself.

So the match started and I was paired against someone I’d never met before, but who had a similar rating to me. I’ve largely been out of the loop on the circuit for ten years, apart from the odd appearance at a tournament every couple of years and playing in my local league, so this is not a surprise. We started the game and it was clear that he was comfortable with the opening – a Sicilian, Rossolimo Variation – as he was able to play his moves reasonably quickly and without a hint of anguish or confusion in his body language (I’m a big fan at watching this stuff – helps with the poker of course, too!)

I started to get an edge in the position after about an hour of play and began to make a move towards the king. He defended stoutly, leaning forward towards the board as though to protect his pieces. I had been to get a mug of tea to drink while studying the position (#englishgent) and oscillated between calm focus and hunched intensity. He made a move and I had to decide whether I could go for a flamboyant knight sacrifice that would open up the position and could lead to checkmate or whether I should accept that he had defended and I needed to regroup, still keeping a small edge.

I studied the position for about 15 minutes and, after playing through a few lines in my head, I concluded that I couldn’t work the whole thing out but that there were enough complications and traps in there to make it playable. This is one of the big differences between playing a human being and playing a computer. A computer isn’t fazed by a complicated position that has a number of intricate tricks and traps. A human hates being on the receiving end of one.

So, I went with it. And he rocked forward. He hadn’t expected that at all. He had done his thinking and had concluded 15 minutes earlier that I had two possible moves – both moving the attacked knight away. He probably had a move already that he would play in response to each. Now he had to start again. Nothing scares a player of my level like someone playing a sacrifice you weren’t expecting. He spent a couple of minutes sitting reasonably comfortably and looking at perhaps a couple of simple variations to get a basic feel for what I was planning to do if he took the knight I had offered.

After that, he moved further forward in his chair, rested his elbows on the table, put his palms on his temples and stared at the board. His eyes went from the knight to the bishop and back again, from the queen to the king and back to the knight. I was similarly focused, because I wanted to make sure I had got a good chunk of the theory sorted in my head and because I wanted him to know that there was a lot of thought that had gone into my move. That established, I went to get another mug of tea. The reason for this was fourfold:

1.   I wanted to clear my head;
2.   I wanted to have a brief chat with another player who was walking around;
3.   I wanted the villain to think I had this whole situation worked out; and
4.   I was thirsty.

I returned to the board to see a couple of kibitzers overlooking matters, as chess watchers have a sixth sense for sacrifices or when a king is in trouble. My opponent was still deep in thought and about ten minutes had passed. I started again in my analysis and got to a similar stage in my head as I had previously. This time, the intention was to be clear as to what I would play if he took the knight. What would my next move be? I had a general idea but the important thing was having specifically the next move ready, because if I could play it immediately, that would really upset him – it would be as though I had the entire sequence in my head that would lead to checkmate.

He continued to think. 15 became 20 and 20 became 25 minutes. He suddenly rose from his chair, looked me square in the eye and said something I’ve never had said to me before: “I’m sorry. I need to get up and sort out my head”. He hadn’t moved; he had just frazzled his hard-drive in trying to work out the position. 99 times out of 100, the villain says “sod it” and plays one of the possible responses, but this chap went for a walk! He returned, having taken off his coat and jumper (leaving a polo shirt on) to start afresh. With a few lucid thoughts, he was able to decide on a move and, after a total think of 30 minutes, he took the knight.

Within 30 seconds, I had played my response and it was back to him to decide what to do. In fairness to him, he had a vision of what he wanted to do and we played after that at a similar pace of a couple of minutes per move. I am not sure whether the sacrifice completely worked and my opponent certainly found what I considered to be the best continuation/defence, to which I had no conclusive riposte.

The attack fizzled out and I needed to regroup, having won enough material to level up the numbers. The position was unbalanced and we made our 36th moves in time, but it was very much unclear who was winning. We had both been a little short of time, leading up to the time control and we shared a glance and a smile when we made it, with about a minute each to spare. We both sat back in our chairs and exhaled audibly; a deep, hearty exhalation, albeit muted slightly so as not to disturb those playing around us. I played my 37th move as white and went to use the gentlemen’s facilities, as I had been, shall I say, eager to do so for some 15 minutes. We were now 3 hours into the game. 

When I returned, my opponent was again hunched over the board with his head in his hands. But this was different; he was much more positive in his posture; he fancied he was in with a chance of winning and he really wanted it. I used the cloakroom visit as an opportunity to start again and I made a conscious effort not to think about the position in that five minute period between leaving the board and returning to it. I actually hummed a song to myself (something completely leftfield that popped into my head – Shake the Disease by Depeche Mode – could have been anything, but it was that this time).

With renewed focus and an empty bladder, I studied the new position that had been generated from his move in my absence.

The game continued and a tense endgame soon developed. He was after my king and I was threatening a sharp counterattack. With the pawns disappearing, my queen was getting more scope and his gaze regularly but fleetingly turned to my queen every few seconds he watched the board. He made a mistake and lost a pawn, which was critical in this position, as it took a lot of the thrust out of his attack. He looked up at me and rolled his eyes. This was a huge relief to me. Like when an opponent over the felt sighs when you raise their bet (and doesn’t insta-shove!).

With a winning endgame, I now had to seal the win. We both had less than five minutes left to complete the game and that isn’t a lot. There were still probably 20 moves to be made to win it with best defence from the villain and for that I would have to find the optimal move – or at least close to it – every time. The crowd was gathering, as most had finished their games and a close finish is always worth a watch.

It is something I have got used to and generally block it out of my mind but some people hate spectators. My opponent didn’t seem to mind, either.

With about a minute on his clock and two on mine, the villain played a move that made me think I might have a quick way to find a won game. It involved an odd move, so I paused, took a breath, checked it and re-checked it in my mind and picked up my rook, which I would use to take his knight. He would then recapture but I would have a won endgame with an extra pawn. As I picked up my rook, my hand was shaking. When the clocks are getting close to the end, you naturally get the adrenaline going; some people get shaky legs; some sit on their hands; some rock back and forth; some do all of them! My hand was quivering like a jelly on a train and it was a huge relief when my opponent resigned immediately. We shook quivering hands and he gave one more verbal gem to me:

“That was a wonderful game. I hope never to play you again”


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on October 28, 2012, 10:57:18 PM
I really enjoyed reading that.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on October 28, 2012, 11:01:40 PM
Thanks for the response above Tal. The more I think about it the more I think chess needs the WC to be decided by tournament. My heart likes the romanticism of the challenger vs champion, but in truth the tournament makes the most sense to me. Chess needs more uncertainty of outcome and underdog stories. It needs the odd Istanbul, Ivanisavic winning Wimbledon or a Jimmy White story. Dominance will still be recognised over many years of winning.

Anand is a great example of someone who isn't the best right now but due to the format will be very tough to beat in a match due to his draws.

Chess needs less draws, more black wins and endings like we just had in Spain. That's the future I think.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 28, 2012, 11:25:36 PM
Great post Tal. Did you notate that game, and if so could you share it on here?

Also, the bit where you mentioned a song coming into your head. That used to happen to me all the time when I played. Even now I can remember specific games and the song that randomly popped into my head during it. Thought it was just me that happened to :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 28, 2012, 11:55:10 PM
If I were capable of concentrating for four hours straight, I'd be a lot more effective at work. Even Tikay gets ad breaks.

I'll have a look at the game itself in the week. It might be an anticlimax after that report...

The world championship debate is a fun one. Match play is a different beast. There is a lot more psychology, more stamina and more intensity than in a tournament. Carlsen has never played one, so no one knows how he'll fare. You'd have to think he has the skills to shine but some people perform much better in certain formats.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on October 29, 2012, 01:39:35 AM
Hi Tal,

What do you think of Judit Polgar? I once saw a documentary on chess kids and all the kids there were convinced she'd be the first female WCC. Nigel Short once said Judit Polgar was one of the three or four true chess child prodigy players he knew of. It seems from her wiki page she's never really turned that into the genius of someone like Carlsen.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 29, 2012, 07:23:29 AM
Hi Tal,

What do you think of Judit Polgar? I once saw a documentary on chess kids and all the kids there were convinced she'd be the first female WCC. Nigel Short once said Judit Polgar was one of the three or four true chess child prodigy players he knew of. It seems from her wiki page she's never really turned that into the genius of someone like Carlsen.

I think you've covered it, tbh.

She was comfortably in the top ten in the world for a while, so has arguably lived up to her potential.

If a young footballer is identified as being a special talent and that child goes on to be an automatic first choice starter for Barcelona, would you say because they weren't nominated for World Player of the Year that they hadn't lived up to their potential?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 30, 2012, 08:23:18 AM
A couple of puzzles I've just lifted from an article:

(http://chessbase.com/news/2012/kavalek06-diag.jpg)

White to move and checkmate will follow shortly with the knights. How do you get the mate to work?

And puzzle number two: a clever took move required to force checkmate, if you please.

(http://chessbase.com/news/2012/kavalek07-diag.jpg)


Don't ask me whether you've found the right answer; tell me you've found the right answer and explain why.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on October 30, 2012, 08:36:59 AM

LOVED that Tourney Report.

You are right up there with Nirvana in my estimation of quality Posters. He might be a pawn ahead.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 30, 2012, 09:05:00 AM

LOVED that Tourney Report.

You are right up there with Nirvana in my estimation of quality Posters. He might be a pawn ahead.

Quite happily take that! Thank you very much.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: sovietsong on October 30, 2012, 09:11:26 AM
A couple of puzzles I've just lifted from an article:

(http://chessbase.com/news/2012/kavalek06-diag.jpg)

Qf2, Rxf2
Nf2#

And puzzle number two: a clever took move required to force checkmate, if you please.

(http://chessbase.com/news/2012/kavalek07-diag.jpg)

Can't figure out this one. Will look again later :(


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: smashedagain on October 30, 2012, 09:31:52 AM
Excellent spot, sir!

So what happens if the rook DOESN'T take the queen? Can you still checkmate? Remember that, if he plays a nothing move on the other side of the board, you can't take the rook and still checkmate, because he takes your queen with his Bishop and gives his king an extra square to escape.

If you can solve that, you're there.
 
:)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 30, 2012, 09:36:30 AM
I love you, smashedagain.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on October 30, 2012, 09:39:41 AM
Excellent spot, sir!

So what happens if the rook DOESN'T take the queen? Can you still checkmate? Remember that, if he plays a nothing move on the other side of the board, you can't take the rook and still checkmate, because he takes your queen with his Bishop and gives his king an extra square to escape.

If you can solve that, you're there.
 
:)

Sub nirvana-grade level itt........


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on October 30, 2012, 09:40:13 AM
I love you, smashedagain.

It's cool to be different.



(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/tikay2/David-Icke-02.png)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: smashedagain on October 30, 2012, 09:47:10 AM
:)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 30, 2012, 09:53:29 AM
A double insult. You've been spending too much time with Karabiner.

It was a beaut of a manoeuvre from smashedagain and deserved the admiration.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on October 30, 2012, 09:56:07 AM
A double insult. You've been spending too much time with Karabiner.

It was a beaut of a manoeuvre from smashedagain and deserved the admiration.

You've been nirvana'd.

;)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 30, 2012, 09:59:12 AM
A double insult. You've been spending too much time with Karabiner.

It was a beaut of a manoeuvre from smashedagain and deserved the admiration.

You've been nirvana'd.

;)

Duly noted


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: sovietsong on October 30, 2012, 01:14:42 PM
When is the big reveal?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 30, 2012, 01:18:55 PM
When is the big reveal?

You'll need to answer smashedagain's question first :)

I'll put the answers up tomorrow or Thurs, depending on response.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on October 30, 2012, 01:49:48 PM
Qe8.

If he takes Q then Nf7 is mate

If he doesn't take the queen Nf7 is mate anyway.

Do I win?

No idea about the other one.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 30, 2012, 01:57:42 PM
Qe8.

If he takes Q then Nf7 is mate

If he doesn't take the queen Nf7 is mate anyway.

Do I win?

No idea about the other one.

Very good. If you had instead played Qf7, it's a similar trick if he does nothing because you can play Qg8+, forcing the took to take and mate follows with Nf7.

The last box to tick is to satisfy yourself that we don't mind him playing Qf3+ and swapping the queens off (we have to play NxQ of he'll mate us instead with Ne2). As long as we end up materially ahead, that's fine.

The second one is a lovely move.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on October 30, 2012, 03:55:44 PM
My first option was just to go Nf7 forcing the rook to take and then nicking it back for the material advantage.

I guess forcing the queen swap + the rook for knight is better as the difference is amplified when the queens are out of action?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on October 30, 2012, 04:18:57 PM
For the second rook f5?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 30, 2012, 04:25:31 PM
For the second rook f5?

Looks good to me.  Black just can't get any pieces over to stop the inevitable.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on October 30, 2012, 04:26:21 PM
Hmmm not so sure now, need to wait until I'm in front of my board.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 30, 2012, 04:28:05 PM
rxf7!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: ruud on October 30, 2012, 04:31:25 PM
Some serious chess tekkers itt

Is just so far above my level though :(


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on October 30, 2012, 04:39:30 PM
rxf7!

Struggling to visualise. What follows?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 30, 2012, 05:05:47 PM
rxf7!

Struggling to visualise. What follows?

No idea, was just putting it out there - but black just takes with his rook.

What was up with Rf5? It looks after the pawn, and allows the other rook to double up behind it. I'm on my phone, but it looks like the winning line to me...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 30, 2012, 05:09:19 PM
Rf5 stops black attacking the queen with his bishop, it threatens all sorts of attacks down the h-file.

Looks like a winner to me. What possible lines can black use to escape?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on October 30, 2012, 05:20:11 PM
If black declines then mate is tough. I'm not in front of a board though so kind of guesstimating until I'm home.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 30, 2012, 06:25:05 PM
So this is our second position:

(http://chessbase.com/news/2012/kavalek07-diag.jpg)

Good analysis, chaps. Let me do a quick synopsis/explanation for those on the rail...

We are choosing between 1.Rf5 and 1.Rxf7.

The situation is that Black can't move the pawn on g6 because that opens up the diagonal between our light squared bishop and the pawn on h7. We can then take that pawn with our queen and it is checkmate.

Black wants to stop that by playing his f-pawn to f5, which is another blocker on that nasty diagonal.

We think 1.Rf5 might work because it stops the villain putting a pawn there and has the clever threat of, if he takes the took with his g6 pawn, taking back with the bishop, leaving the bishop on the f5 square with nothing Black can do to stop mate on h7.

There is another idea behind Rf5 but we'll hear about that further, I expect (it has been touched upon in discussion).

The other idea is to take on f7 with our rook, although that one hasn't been explored much more than a suggestion.

What we need to do in this case is decide whether we can make 1.Rf5 work against any defence. Can we find checkmate if he plays f6 and tries to slide his King to safety, for example?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on October 30, 2012, 06:52:57 PM
Rf5 stops black attacking the queen with his bishop, it threatens all sorts of attacks down the h-file.

Looks like a winner to me. What possible lines can black use to escape?

Qd7 looks like an immediate option to me.

Scrap that. Rg5 muffs it.

How about Bf6??

Rg5 leads to Re8 gives a protected escape route for the king as the queen's mating squares are covered.

I'm now thinking that maybe after Rf5 we need to drag that other rook across to f1 before we hop across to g5.

Getting that headache again :D


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 30, 2012, 06:53:28 PM
Yes, we can still force mate against f6.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on October 30, 2012, 06:55:43 PM
Yes, we can still force mate against f6.

What would your reply be to Bf6?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on October 30, 2012, 06:56:04 PM
Rf5 stops black attacking the queen with his bishop, it threatens all sorts of attacks down the h-file.
T
Looks like a winner to me. What possible lines can black use to escape?

Qd7 looks like an immediate option to me.

Scrap that. Rg5 muffs it.

How about Bf6??

Rg5 leads to Re8 gives a protected escape route for the king as the queen's mating squares are covered.

I'm now thinking that maybe after Rf5 we need to drag that other rook across to f1 before we hop across to g5.

Getting that headache again :D


Rook can shoot across to h5, rather than g5.  The rook to f5 sorts out all of white's immediate escapes, and allows a whole host of attacks.

But anyway, I'm at the NEC at a Muse gig. Should stop this chess analysis... :D


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on October 30, 2012, 07:16:16 PM

This is superb, even though it's way above my head.

Gotta have the blockers.


which is another blocker on that nasty diagonal


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 30, 2012, 07:35:52 PM
Who's up for giving the thread a proof then?

1.Rf5 Bf6
2.Rh5 Bg7
3.Qxh7 mate

(We've covered this one)

1.Rf5 g6xRf5
2.Bxf5 Bf6
3.Qxh7 mate

(And we've covered that one)

1.Rf5 f6
2.Rh5 Kf7
3 ?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on October 30, 2012, 07:39:32 PM
Rf5 stops black attacking the queen with his bishop, it threatens all sorts of attacks down the h-file.
T
Looks like a winner to me. What possible lines can black use to escape?

Qd7 looks like an immediate option to me.

Scrap that. Rg5 muffs it.

How about Bf6??

Rg5 leads to Re8 gives a protected escape route for the king as the queen's mating squares are covered.

I'm now thinking that maybe after Rf5 we need to drag that other rook across to f1 before we hop across to g5.

Getting that headache again :D


Rook can shoot across to h5, rather than g5.  The rook to f5 sorts out all of white's immediate escapes, and allows a whole host of attacks.

But anyway, I'm at the NEC at a Muse gig. Should stop this chess analysis... :D

Sorry I meant Rh5 not Rg5.

Bf6 still looks a possible counter for black.

Rh5 gives Re8 which gives that escape for black's king via f8 and then e7.

Definitely think we need to bring that other rook across to f1 as white for a bit of extra backup before we steam over to h5.

EDIT: I'm posting this anyway despite Tal's previous post which he ninja'd me with. What he said may usurp this post :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 30, 2012, 07:45:22 PM
Usurpation unintended.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on October 30, 2012, 07:46:41 PM
Who's up for giving the thread a proof then?

1.Rf5 Bf6
2.Rh5 Bg7
3.Qxh7 mate

(We've covered this one)


Can you continue this line for me please Tal.

1.Rf5 Bf6
2.Rh5 Re8
3.Qxh7 Kf8
4.......

Would also like to know a better move for white instead of Qxh7 if there is one.

Immediate threat seems dissipated and if we move Ke7 we can potentially swing our rook across to h8 to apply pressure to white's queen.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on October 30, 2012, 07:49:42 PM
Off out to walk the hound and think about this position some more. I think I have it in my head!! Oh dear I may be getting in to chess!!

I expect a good reason why Bf6 won't work as a defence by the time I get back.

Don't panic we walk a long way. You've got ages!!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 30, 2012, 08:11:39 PM
In positions like these, there will almost always be a variation or two where we don't get checkmate but we get a big enough material lead to call it a win. By way of example,

1.Rf5 Bg5
2.RxB Qf6

Stops the mate but you lose a whole bishop and are still not out of the woods. We can call that a win.

In the continuation you've given, EvilPie, I'd say after Ke8 we take the g6 pawn with our bishop and we are at least very much in front, whether he takes it back or not.

We've covered pretty much everything in that position; squeezed all the juice out of it. Even managed to drag some others, kicking and screaming with us :)

Great stuff
 


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 30, 2012, 09:10:08 PM
In Holland, Hikaru Nakamura recovered some pride after a humbling tournament performance a couple of weeks ago by winning the Unive event in Hoogeveen.

This was a 4 player double round robin (play each other as white and black), featuring two of Holland's top players - Danish Giri and Sergey Tiviakov - Nakamura and the women's world champion, China's Hou Yifan.

Nakamura won all three with white and drew all three with black. He played nicely in the key games and will surely regain some confidence with an undefeated record.

Nakamura will be one of the players in the London Chess Classic in December.




Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 30, 2012, 09:14:26 PM
Here is the final crosstable:

(http://chessbase.com/news/2012/events/hoogeveen28-tab6.gif)

This is Mr Nakamura:

(http://chessbase.com/news/2012/events/nakamura01.jpg)

Here is the 18 year old women's world champion, Miss Yifan:

(http://chessbase.com/news/2012/events/houyifan17.jpg)

And the final round report (from which these photos are lifted):

http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8587


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on October 30, 2012, 09:57:20 PM
1.Rf5 f6
2.Rh5 Kf7
3 ?

This was the one I was visualising today. Black can get through this without losing a ton of material imo. Positionally they are screwed though.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 30, 2012, 10:00:41 PM
1.Rf5 f6
2.Rh5 Kf7
3 ?

This was the one I was visualising today. Black can get through this without losing a ton of material imo. Positionally they are screwed though.

It's a won game. Once the other took comes to f1, the king is still exposed and there's no counterplay. We can count that as a win.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on October 30, 2012, 10:03:09 PM
1.Rf5 f6
2.Rh5 Kf7
3 ?

This was the one I was visualising today. Black can get through this without losing a ton of material imo. Positionally they are screwed though.

It's a won game. Once the other took comes to f1, the king is still exposed and there's no counterplay. We can count that as a win.

Agree.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 31, 2012, 08:11:50 AM
Something completely different this morning - I'll definitely put more puzzles up in the future.

These cartoons were created for the 1923 London tournament, which saw the great and the good (including the tremendously named Eugene Znosno-Borovsky) by the then Daily Mail cartoonist Tom Webster:

(http://chessbase.com/news/2011/winter/winter33a.gif)

(http://chessbase.com/news/2011/winter/winter33b.gif)

(http://chessbase.com/news/2011/winter/winter33c.gif)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 31, 2012, 01:24:12 PM
It appears the blonde Chess Thread is now ahead of Chess base, as the website has published a piece on Paul Keres today, pointing out that he beat we more world champions than any other player.

http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8595

#winning


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: tikay on October 31, 2012, 01:37:40 PM

LOVE those cartoons!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Acidmouse on October 31, 2012, 01:57:49 PM
I have took the bait m'lord and joined my local club.

http://www.alwoodleychessclub.org.uk/

"1942 A group of Alwoodley veterans, mostly active in Civil Defence during WW2, founded the club. They played informally at each others' homes. "

It's in the same social club that has beer at 2 quid a pint John Smiths yum and two mins from my house.

My first game on a social/open night was against the all conquering David aged 11. Now not knowing the club was rather good at chess and has a nice history competing I was not quite expecting the 30 move defeat...*hangs head in shame*


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on October 31, 2012, 03:07:16 PM
I really wouldn't worry about being beaten by an 11 year old. Sergey Karjakin was a Grandmaster at 12 and Magnus Carlsen was a Grandmaster at 13.

It's brilliant that you've joined a club. It's a good social game and you will meet some completely different people to those who frequent casinos!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 01, 2012, 01:11:12 AM
I have took the bait m'lord and joined my local club.

http://www.alwoodleychessclub.org.uk/

"1942 A group of Alwoodley veterans, mostly active in Civil Defence during WW2, founded the club. They played informally at each others' homes. "

It's in the same social club that has beer at 2 quid a pint John Smiths yum and two mins from my house.

My first game on a social/open night was against the all conquering David aged 11. Now not knowing the club was rather good at chess and has a nice history competing I was not quite expecting the 30 move defeat...*hangs head in shame*

Just had a look at the link. I see Richard Palliser plays at your new club, AcidMouse. He's an International Master, which is one below a Grandmaster. He's written a few books on opening theory and it a well-respected authority on a couple of lines, AFAIK.

He's also a nice chap. Went to school in Hull and then to Oxford Uni if I recall correctly.

Joining a big and successful club is a sign that you'll be able to find a game without any trouble, but any club that plays in a league will have players of a range of levels.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Acidmouse on November 01, 2012, 01:20:49 AM
cool. it was clear pretty quickly there were a few players ere, :) mostly of a decent standard.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 01, 2012, 07:45:55 PM
The new international ratings are out. Magnus Carlsen has a frankly enormous 33 point lead over Levon Aronian and the rest of the world.

Here are some tables:

http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8599

Here is a largely pointless bar chart:

(http://chessbase.com/news/2012/ratings02.gif)

Here is Magnus Carlsen:

(https://webcast.chessclub.com/blog/photos/Olympiad-Carlsen-IMG_4697.jpg)

One of the interesting results is that, because of a poor couple of months for Michael Adams, Luke McShane, without playing a game in the last couple of months, has become the British number 1.

This will add an interesting angle to the London Classic in December, with both players confirmed.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Q0lTtPVTG40/TP_TAKAqAJI/AAAAAAABkEI/6YVNtmCmOdA/s1600/mcshane.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 03, 2012, 10:09:48 PM
http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=6933

Some master moves for you. Some of these are particularly difficult and some lead only to a winning endgame (perhaps less interesting to some of those who follow this thread).

I would strongly recommend number 4 to everyone, though. It is a rip-snorter, to use a Richie Benaultism.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: titaniumbean on November 03, 2012, 11:51:02 PM
So on position 4 I should be able to play a white move and win?


i'm struggling.............. rofl


edit so is win 'winning endgame', and they'll say mate if it's mate in one?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 04, 2012, 09:06:49 AM
When these positions come from real games, it is unusual for it to be a perfect mate against any ddefence.

Position 4 has a mate against pretty much any defence. If Black can save it, he will lose so much material in doing so that it won't be worth carrying on, so don't worry about that.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 05, 2012, 10:36:54 AM
Will do some answers when more people have had a look/when I'm satisfied no one else is going to look.

In the meantime, here's an interesting (and hopefully a little easier) one:

(http://chessbase.com/cbm/reeh2012e/pia_kam_g.jpg)

White is of top county player standard. Black is of Grandmaster standard. This game was played last week in Holland. Black played 41...Ne5 in this position and, after white played 42.f6, a draw followed.

However, white missed a win. Can you spot it?

http://chessbase.com/cbm/reeh2012e/4412.html gives you the answer if you are stuck.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on November 05, 2012, 01:09:08 PM
Was there any time pressure involved? Even I saw this one without too much bother.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 05, 2012, 01:50:06 PM
Was there any time pressure involved? Even I saw this one without too much bother.

Not that I am aware of. The first time control is usually somewhere between the 30 and 40 move mark (in higher level games, towards the latter), so 41 would be after the time control AFAIK.

Over the board, it is so easy to miss something like that, tho. White had been trying an attack and had a combination of ideas in mind. I suspect he missed the perpetual check (where a player can't escape being checked back and forth so the game is drawn as neither side can make progress) by Black and believed that f6 was a good way of clearing Black's remaining defence.

Once you have a plan in mind (and remember that this would have been three, four, eight moves before this position), it can be hard to force yourself to see whether there is a better one along the way.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on November 05, 2012, 02:42:28 PM
Has anyone ever had a time advantage and used a perpetual check to angle out a win?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on November 05, 2012, 04:04:39 PM
Has anyone ever had a time advantage and used a perpetual check to angle out a win?

You mean use perpetual check moves until the other person's clock runs out?  Can't really happen - as the repetition of the moves will mean it's a draw.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threefold_repetition



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 05, 2012, 04:20:52 PM
I would always encourage someone to look for and play the best move on the board.

However, when the villain is short of time, some people (ahem...) will play a move instead that is designed to make villain think more - to use more time - and thereby increase the risk of them not making their required 40 moves in time. Typically, this will be a non-check and the reason for that is that a check can generally be answered either by an obvious king move or an even more obvious blocker. A non-check makes villain have to think of their own idea without making their own position worse in the process.

Another tactic is to avoid swaps and to keep the pieces on the board, thereby increasing the number of possibilities the villain has to consider in his fading time. This, of course, carries its own risks that the villain stumbles across something you haven't seen and you are hoisted by your own pétard.

If you are miles ahead on the clock, a clever tactic is to take your time. It is really hard to keep the adrenaline pumping and the concentration levels high for more than a few minutes. The temptation as the hero is to play quickly and prevent villain from having time to consider his response but your job is to play the move Magnus Carlsen (or Mr Shredder) would play, so why make anything less than the Max EV play?

In villain's seat, he has no idea whether you are going to take 1 minute or 20, so he can't invest too much time on one possible variation, else his time might be completely wasted if he doesn't have the chance to look at the others.

Play the best move on the board wherever you can.

To quote Vanilla Ice, anything less than the best is a felony.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on November 05, 2012, 05:35:00 PM
In that vein, I have used tactics that could be described as 'angle-shooting' in chess.

I was playing in the Lloyds Bank U12 comp, which at the time was pretty much the English championships. Think it was a fourth round match, and my opponent was a bit of a cocky git (who also looked a lot older than 11, but never mind). He was also beating me, which was annoying. I think he was a couple of pawns up and as the game was going to inevitably progress I'd probably suffer a slow and painful death to lose in the endgame.

However, he had an Achilles heel. He'd constantly forget to press his clock after he moved.

I think the first time, I told him.  The second time I waited as I thought, and he eventually he glanced at the clock and realised it was his ticking down not mine, so pressed the button.  Anyway, he had about 15 minutes left on his clock, and I had about 45 minutes. My only 'out' was to see if I could get him into severe time-trouble and then get him to make a mistake or even run out of time completely.

After a few more times of forgetting to press his clock, he was down to under 5 minutes (these were analogue clocks and it's pretty difficult to know exactly how long is left as the flag starts to lift, before it falls when the time's expired.  I still had over half an hour left.  My plan was to try and make the position on the board quite complex, and then to make a move that would make him think.  When the position felt right, and after I'd thought through the variations of what could happen and taken a good fifteen minutes thinking - I made my move.  It was a bishop sacrifice that I'd worked out would probably fail, but he'd have to play things pretty much spot on otherwise he could easily make a mistake and find himself in trouble.

Of course, he was already in trouble in terms of the time left on his clock. So he thought for a couple of minutes and made a move.  It was one of the ones I'd expected, so I immediately made my response and hit the clock. He wasn't happy as he had to tank again for a bit, and then moved again. Like before, it was a move I'd anticipated (and was actually his best line that in a vacuum would lead to him winning comfortably), and I moved immediately.

He was now down to less than a minute, and so with an anxious look at the clock he had to move again quickly.  We were still quite a way off the 40th move (or whatever move it was when additional time was added to the clocks), and now the game had become like a blitz match.  I didn't want to take too long making my moves as it would be giving him valuable time to think about his next move. I had nothing to lose, as I was already in a losing position, whereas if he misstepped he'd be handing me a win that I didn't really deserve. The next 5 or so moves were a blur, as pieces were moved, the clock hit, pieces taken and then used to hit the clock, and the tournament adjudicator had come over to monitor the clock and number of moves we were on, etc.

His flag was about to fall, and although he still had the lead in the game I was now in the driving seat. He played a move and said "Do you want a draw?" - the clock now ticking for me, although I still had over 5 minutes left on my clock. So I thought about it, a draw wouldn't have been a bad result from the position I was in - but now I wanted the full point. I was going to decline his offer, but wanted him to think I was thinking about it...right up to the moment I made a bizzare knight move and pressed the clock (meaning it was his go, I'd declined his offer and now it's on him to move).  The knight move wasn't expected, and after about 20 seconds of him working out if there was more to it than met the eye (there wasn't, it was a 'bad' move), he made a move but before he could press his clock his flag fell. 

I'd won.  I was an angle-shooting 11-year old. But it felt good :D


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 05, 2012, 05:43:07 PM
Kinboshi v Hellmuth on The Big Game

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybKh4omCTUA


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on November 05, 2012, 05:45:37 PM
Kinboshi v Hellmuth on The Big Game

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybKh4omCTUA

Maybe he didn't look - he just showed them to the folks at home?

Nah....


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 06, 2012, 12:14:28 AM
Tbf he did play it like a set...


Here's something for the pedants (I'm proud of being one myself). Chess boards in famous films being set up wrongly:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8610

Amused me anyway.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: titaniumbean on November 06, 2012, 01:33:12 AM
Awesome link.


Always knew Kinboshi was a twatty :p


edit re position 1, I don't get why we don't just sacrifice the piece with that move?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 06, 2012, 08:03:15 AM
Awesome link.


Always knew Kinboshi was a twatty :p


edit re position 1, I don't get why we don't just sacrifice the piece with that move?

If you mean Ne5+, that is exactly what he played. Black can't take the knight because white takes the rook and is left with Rook v Bishop (which in that position should be a win), so he moves the king instead. Then white swaps the rooks off and gobbles up the pawn on c6.

It isn't a mate, but the extra material in that position is critical, which is why little tactics in the endgame are so important.

All the solutions are linked at the bottom of the webpage, so you can see that they were all real games.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 06, 2012, 08:13:06 AM
Here is the direct link to the solutions to the puzzles I put up the other day: http://chessbase.com/news/2010/misc/games/mastermoves02.htm

Position 4 is a crash-bang-wallop of a move. Nxe6 leads to mate against pretty much anything because of the bishop lurking on a3.

Having your pieces working together is so important and, from Black's perspective, castling before he got himself into this mess might have been an idea!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: TightEnd on November 06, 2012, 05:04:14 PM
White to move, mate in 3

I can't get this one!

http://gameknot.com/chess-puzzle.pl?pz=14349&daily=1


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: titaniumbean on November 06, 2012, 05:22:39 PM
Awesome link.


Always knew Kinboshi was a twatty :p


edit re position 1, I don't get why we don't just sacrifice the piece with that move?

If you mean Ne5+, that is exactly what he played. Black can't take the knight because white takes the rook and is left with Rook v Bishop (which in that position should be a win), so he moves the king instead. Then white swaps the rooks off and gobbles up the pawn on c6.

It isn't a mate, but the extra material in that position is critical, which is why little tactics in the endgame are so important.

All the solutions are linked at the bottom of the webpage, so you can see that they were all real games.



ok so what I did was stare at the board for a solid 10 minutes, think oooh what about this and that, stare for 5 minutes more, open the solutions, stare at them for a month of sundays and still not understand.


i'm tez.



i'm getting close to getting a board out just to look at it properly because I can't understand it when I have to remember what pieces have moved and what pieces are covering different areas.


great thread though.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on November 06, 2012, 10:43:15 PM
White to move, mate in 3

I can't get this one!

http://gameknot.com/chess-puzzle.pl?pz=14349&daily=1

Took a while!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: titaniumbean on November 06, 2012, 10:55:23 PM
dear lord that was frustrating.

kept thinking i'd seen good moves, nope not right. arse. :(

really enjoying reading up on these, i'm so clueless at chess!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 06, 2012, 10:58:14 PM
White to move, mate in 3

I can't get this one!

http://gameknot.com/chess-puzzle.pl?pz=14349&daily=1

Elegant. Like it.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on November 06, 2012, 11:16:05 PM
White to move, mate in 3

I can't get this one!

http://gameknot.com/chess-puzzle.pl?pz=14349&daily=1

Elegant. Like it.

Only got it so quickly because you said it was elegant! 'Tis very nice though.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 06, 2012, 11:21:20 PM
Me and my helpful adjectives


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on November 07, 2012, 11:46:25 AM
Is there some levelling going on here?

Can't see the point of this puzzle at all. I've wasted more time wondering if it's a level than I've spent on the puzzle so I thought I'd just ask.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on November 07, 2012, 12:25:50 PM
Is there some levelling going on here?

Can't see the point of this puzzle at all. I've wasted more time wondering if it's a level than I've spent on the puzzle so I thought I'd just ask.


No level, there's a mate in three main moves.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 07, 2012, 12:33:47 PM
Is there some levelling going on here?

Can't see the point of this puzzle at all. I've wasted more time wondering if it's a level than I've spent on the puzzle so I thought I'd just ask.


No level, there's a mate in three main moves.

It is quite a difficult puzzle. It starts with a non-check, which makes it harder. There are two different checkmates, depending on whether Black moves his king or the pawn.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on November 07, 2012, 03:58:05 PM
So with the first queen move there's 100% no way that black can avoid the 3 moves mate?

Cool.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 07, 2012, 04:08:24 PM
So with the first queen move there's 100% no way that black can avoid the 3 moves mate?

Cool.

Exactly. After your first move, Black gets mated 2 moves later one way if he moves his king next and another way 2 moves later if he moves his pawn.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 07, 2012, 10:07:54 PM
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5yYu9AwlzcQ/Tj6tlU-e4LI/AAAAAAAAAHc/12DG6s-xzNQ/s1600/Obamachess.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: titaniumbean on November 07, 2012, 11:29:24 PM
lol could only be better if you could see each board and he was in a stalemate from repetition at best on each board!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 08, 2012, 08:12:07 AM
White to move, mate in 3

I can't get this one!

http://gameknot.com/chess-puzzle.pl?pz=14349&daily=1

At the risk of spoiling anyone's hard work, start with Qh7.

As I'm sure by now you've discovered, you have the facility to ask for a hint and that will guide you through the answers.

The more I look at it, the more I'd reinforce what I said before: it is a very difficult puzzle.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 08, 2012, 08:58:10 AM
There used to be a pretty big tournament this time of year in Bucharest which this year almost didn't happen. However, the organisers - with an almost DTDesque level of tenacity and resilience, located 4 top players (including Romanian number 1, Liviu-Dieter Nisipeanu and the comp goes ahead.

(http://iulianceausescu.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/nisipeanu01.jpg)

Caruana plays but then I think we have two players our thread has yet to encounter (at least over the board): we know of Vessilin Topalov, who was once world number 1 and famously challenged Vladimir Kramnik for the world title (see "toilet-gate" from a while back).

(http://www.novinite.com/media/images/2009-07/photo_verybig_106373.jpg)

Completing the lineup is Vassily Ivanchuk, known as "chucky", who is known for his breadth of opening theory. He's also a tireless workaholic.

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2010/ivanchuk04.jpg)

Over the board, in round one, Topalov drew with Caruana and Ivanchuk produced a lovely game to defeat Nisipeanu.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8615

Have a look at the position from move 30. White is a pawn up, but when bishops are of opposite colour, it can be difficult to make progress at times, as you have to put your extra pawn on squares your bishop can't defend. Black does the right thing in keeping the rooks on, because he needs to keep counterplay chances alive, but chucky was not to be stopped, and aggressive play in the endgame paid off.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on November 08, 2012, 05:16:35 PM
lol looked at Ivanchuk game , & thinking how did he win opposite bishops endgame


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 08, 2012, 09:36:32 PM
lol looked at Ivanchuk game , & thinking how did he win opposite bishops endgame

Extra queenside pawn made all the difference.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 08, 2012, 10:33:41 PM
Thinking of a Christmas present?

London game-maker Jaques has a 3for2 sale on. I have a nice Jaques chess set but it makes all sorts of games.

If you live in London, it has a section in Hamley's.

http://www.jaqueslondon.co.uk/gift-ideas-1/christmas.html


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 09, 2012, 08:40:42 AM
The London Chess Classic is just 3 weeks away now and, in a change from previous schedules, the draw has already been done.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8618

Round 1's standout tie is Luke McShane v Magnus Carlsen. Luke beat Magnus a couple of years ago and has a markedly different style to everyone else in the competition, making him dangerous.

I cannot recommend highly enough that you pop to the Kensington Olympia for a day to see the event. Take your children as well if you like, as there are loads of events on for the youngsters.

You will see not only the main event in an auditorium (you can take pictures in the first 5 mins of the match so get there for the start) but also the side events that are running in parallel, with players of all levels competing.

Because the main event has an odd number of players, the one left over each day will be assisting the commentary, which you can sit and watch. You can ask questions, suggest moves, even steer the analysis :)

I go every year for a day (overground train from Watford Junction, if you're coming from the Midlands/the North) and never regret it.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 09, 2012, 05:37:59 PM
(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/london/lcc002.jpg)

A helpful "who's who?"

Tickets are available here http://www.londonchessclassic.com/tickets.htm or at the door. Children (1997 or later) get free entry; adults £15/£20 for weekday/weekend.

For that, you get access to the auditorium where the main games are held...

(http://www.londonchessclassic.com/images/fadeshows/ticketpage/tck01.jpg)

...plus the commentary room...

(http://www.londonchessclassic.com/images/tickets/commentary.jpg)

And access to see the side events and plenty more besides






Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 10, 2012, 01:23:30 AM
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8619

The second round of the Kings Tournament saw two draws, although Caruana missed a straightforward win, having completely miscalculated in his analysis of the position.

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/bucharest/bucharest05.jpg)



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 10, 2012, 01:33:03 AM
Tal - the real one - would have been 76 today.

Chessbase has published a lovely story about his desire to play with Mikhail Botvinnik, who Tal would go on to beat in 1960 and who would take the title back off him a year later.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8621

12 year old Tal had instead to settle for Botvinnik's assistant (called a "second") but boy did he play a game against him!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on November 10, 2012, 01:43:24 PM
anyone use chessclub.com , not been on there for years & mostly play on chessworld.net but thinking of changing but at $70 a year is bit much

they used to do great coverage of the big tournaments but not sure how good they are now


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 10, 2012, 01:45:15 PM
anyone use chessclub.com , not been on there for years & mostly play on chessworld.net but thinking of changing but at $70 a year is bit much

they used to do great coverage of the big tournaments but not sure how good they are now

Never used it myself.

Playchess is the one I use. That is subscription for the tournament commentary etc. But free for software to play other people live.
 


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 10, 2012, 06:24:36 PM
Round 3 of the Kings tournament saw two draws, so as you were and Ivanchuk leads at the halfway point. Games with excellent analysis are here:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8623

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/bucharest/bucharest08.jpg)

Nisipeanu has a look at the Ivanchuk-Caruana game.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Skippy on November 10, 2012, 07:48:32 PM
anyone use chessclub.com , not been on there for years & mostly play on chessworld.net but thinking of changing but at $70 a year is bit much

they used to do great coverage of the big tournaments but not sure how good they are now

Never used it myself.

Playchess is the one I use. That is subscription for the tournament commentary etc. But free for software to play other people live.
 

You can be my PlayChess technical support, then. (please)

So, I bought Fritz, and I got a years "membership" with it. What does that get me? If I can play for free, what's the difference?

If I want to watch live coverage of say the London Chess Classic, or the past olympiad, with the commentary, do I have to pay more on top? What are Ducats?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 10, 2012, 08:37:13 PM
anyone use chessclub.com , not been on there for years & mostly play on chessworld.net but thinking of changing but at $70 a year is bit much

they used to do great coverage of the big tournaments but not sure how good they are now

Never used it myself.

Playchess is the one I use. That is subscription for the tournament commentary etc. But free for software to play other people live.
 

You can be my PlayChess technical support, then. (please)

So, I bought Fritz, and I got a years "membership" with it. What does that get me? If I can play for free, what's the difference?

If I want to watch live coverage of say the London Chess Classic, or the past olympiad, with the commentary, do I have to pay more on top? What are Ducats?

I have the basic package (I assume like you), as it happens (on laptop and on Android). If you want access to the commentary and the higher level stuff, that is an extra subscription. The Ducats are, I think, like tokens you can buy and then spend on 1-1 coaching from the GMs that use the site or access to presentations, talks and game commenataries.

Personally, I'm happy to have the software to play other people online and to do everything else either myself or elsewhere on the internet.

The games from big comps are streamed live on the tournament website and sites like Chessbase will give you the games within a day or so, often with commentary. You can plug those moves into Fritz if you like!

I am not sure of your standard. If you are a sub 1600 player or relatively new to the game, I would advise against spending money on analysis of recent Super GM games, as you can get the essentials much more easily from games from 50 years ago or more. 


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 11, 2012, 11:16:37 PM
In 1889 (yes, 1889), two of the best players around, Weiss and Chigorin finished joint first in a big tournament in the US. Like golf, they played a playoff game, then another when that was drawn...then another...another...and another. All four were drawn.

The chess historian, Edward Winter, has found a truly magnificent letter from a disgruntled chess follower of the day. I copy below Edward Winter's article:



Criticism of draws (New York, 1889 play-off)


John Blackstone (Las Vegas, NV, USA) points out this item on page 14 of the New York Sun, 26 May 1889:

‘The two drawn games which Messrs. Weiss and Chigorin performed, we will not say played, on Thursday and Friday of last week, while in the effort to break their tie for first place, added no glory to the history of chess. Under such deliberate attempts at a draw, chess is put behind the game that ranks next to it, checkers, in which drawn games are the rule and not the exception. The pusillanimous resignation to rivalry with which each of these two leaders of a great intellectual diversion
shrank from the attack, hoping that his adversary would make a mistake, is but another phase of the famous meeting in Canada between Mace and Coburn. Those eminent prize-fighters quartered about the ring for hours because neither was willing to lead for the other, and the affair ended in the same sort of fiasco as these concluding encounters of the chess tournament.

Masters Chigorin and Weiss should gird up their loins and be men when they meet tomorrow. Let them abandon their imitation of Mace and Coburn and think of how Chateaubriand used to say, in a language they both can read, “Ce n’est pas la victoire [qui] fait le bonheur des nobles coeurs – c’est le combat.” [This quote is commonly ascribed to Montalembert, with la joie rather than le bonheur.] Not victory, but battle, delights the noble heart. One blow for the honor of chess rather than none for victory. Play for all you are worth.

Notwithstanding the newspaper’s exhortations, the fourth and final game in the play-off was drawn in 28 moves the next day.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 11, 2012, 11:29:26 PM
Here is a picture from the very tournament:

(http://www.endgame.nl/Newyork.jpg)

The game is Weiss on the left and Chigorin on the right.

And here are the details of the tournament, including a link to all the 46 games

http://www.endgame.nl/newyork.htm

The games are much simpler than the ones we see today. However, we mustn't underestimate the players' ability to calcluate.

I would suggest that the winning games are worth a look if you fancy doing so (don't bother with draws; most of the fun in looking at games is the win).


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 12, 2012, 09:10:00 PM
Two draws in the Kings Tournament, so it is as you were:

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/bucharest/buchcross-04.gif)

Games are annotated here:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8628

Ivanchuk's astonishing knowledge of opening theory (there really is no one out there with as wide a knowledge as him) came into play and it is helpfully explained.

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/bucharest/bucharest10.jpg)

It is common practice now in these comps for the players to go through their game straight afterwards with the commentator and a computer.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: titaniumbean on November 12, 2012, 09:15:00 PM
That last lines quite a turn on.

do they see if the computer can find better moves etc and discuss it? is it all really that open?

also cant understand half of the write up as so many references to openings etc that I have no comprehension of. Like clicking through the match quite quick on the visual board though!



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 12, 2012, 09:24:38 PM
That last lines quite a turn on.

do they see if the computer can find better moves etc and discuss it? is it all really that open?

also cant understand half of the write up as so many references to openings etc that I have no comprehension of. Like clicking through the match quite quick on the visual board though!



What happens is that a commentator will have been going through the game (usually with the assistance of an engine or two) live with an audience. When the players come in, there will be lines and moves the commentator could have spotted that the players missed and this can come up in discussion.

Don't worry too much about the opening theory as such. The core ideas are the same but they are different ways of reaching positions the players are comfortable with.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 12, 2012, 09:36:05 PM
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DN8M6sLDvk

This is an example from last year's London Classic. The American Nakamura has just beaten the world champion Anand of India and the two of them join British GM Danny King (who does the Your Move feature we looked at a while ago) and fellow Brit IM Lawrence Trent to go through the game.

You will notice that the notation on the right hand side has different letters to denote some of the pieces. This is because Chessbase and Playchess are German-owned and those are the German names for the pieces (D = Queen; S= Knight; T= Rook).

They discuss an opening called the King's Indian, which has a bit of an unfavourable reputation in modern circles (these things go in and out of fashion like poker-plays) which Nakamura played here but got a nice counterattack out of it (which is the idea) and won well.

You only get audio but you will hear the English accents as the commentators, the Indian the victim and the American the victor.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: titaniumbean on November 12, 2012, 10:00:27 PM
<3 victim.

I just feel as a complete and utter amateur, that I need to focus on the first set of moves because I have such little clue. If I were to play a game of chess. I would just move some pieces and see what my opponent did, I would not have a clue why or what I was hoping to achieve.


Massively interested in these discussions, trying to read the newspapers chess section or even some of the articles I cant see the board in my mind or even just a few moves on from what is pictured so I don't enjoy it. Massively enjoyed those 'puzzle boards' just because I know there is a good move it's just a case of finding it. I'm not competent enough to see a position on the board and know even who it's in favour of without alot of thought or an obvious imbalance of pieces.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 12, 2012, 10:21:42 PM
I would suggest investing in a novice book (I know that's a dirty word on a poker forum :) ), which will explain about how to get going. You need to know the chess equivalent of position, starting hands and TAG.

Fundamentally, all openings are about developing your pieces and getting some sort of influence in the centre.

If you are making developing moves (knights and bishops out and castle to get your king safe), you are on the right track.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: titaniumbean on November 12, 2012, 10:28:24 PM
I would suggest investing in a novice book (I know that's a dirty word on a poker forum :) ), which will explain about how to get going. You need to know the chess equivalent of position, starting hands and TAG.

Fundamentally, all openings are about developing your pieces and getting some sort of influence in the centre.

If you are making developing moves (knights and bishops out and castle to get your king safe), you are on the right track.


rofl where's the novice of novices book. i'm tez.

I played on the school team as a kid merely because I was competitive and weird (yay) and I had the ability to crush school children by thinking upwards of 2 moves ahead sometimes 3 on a good day.

I am probably alot worse now than I was then. I really haven't played since, except on a computer chess board game set I was bought when I was about 10. Obv could beat easy then the second the computer was trying to win absolutely no chance.

I don't think I can play enough to get anywhere near able to be only a -99% ROI chess player ldo, so think these post match discussions might be a more worthwhile chess related way to spend my time.


I basically move the one infront of kingy, always 2 because that's what you do isn't it. Then some combination of moving the knight/bishop so I can castle. Then i'm purely reactionary, often get into spots where i'd rather check and react to them lol

Wish you could open jam i'd have more chance then!


Big fan of this thread though, ty :)up


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 12, 2012, 10:44:19 PM
Pawn in front of kingy up two is called 1.e4 and it is the most popular first move, so so far so good :D

You want to look from there to develop your knights and bishops and there are usually reasonably straightforward ways of doing that. For example:

(http://www.thechesswebsite.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Giuoco-Piano.jpg)

Then bring the other knight out, move the pawn in front of "Queenie" up one and the bishop then has a diagonal to move on. Castle kingside and you, sir, have an opening.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Skippy on November 12, 2012, 10:52:44 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: go to http://www.chesskids.com/lessons04.shtml, and work through the lessons. If you ignore that it's for kidz, you'll be well on the way.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: titaniumbean on November 12, 2012, 10:54:05 PM
yeah see but then i'm absolutely done and the next move taaaakes ages and I have absolutely no idea what i'm hoping to achieve.

The best way to describe it might be I just open donk 100% and then randomly respond to aggression lol



I'm mentally like a 6 year old sometimes so no problem with insulting my own intelligence Skippy. ty.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 12, 2012, 11:06:17 PM
By all means send me some games or post them up here (a couple of people have done it) and we can offer some advice.

Just experiment a bit from the same positions; try using your pieces to attack his King; try throwing your pawns up on one side of the board; try making a break in the centre with your rooks on d1 and e1. Just see what sort of game you get. Maybe you win one. As with poker, it might not mean you got it in good but it will start to give you a feel for the position.

Believe me when I tell you that even the best player in the world will reach positions he genuinely doesn't know what to do in. He will play through some ideas in his head (just as I have - slightly crudely - suggested) and assess the possible positions.

You can only get better by having a bash.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: titaniumbean on November 12, 2012, 11:11:34 PM
ha ty I don't want to waste anyones time, I feel somewhat bad playing humans because I either am up against a 6 year old who I can beat with only a few wobbles, or i'm up against most the rest of the chess playing world and I don't provide a good enough game. It's a bit like other sports that i'd play, I understand you have to play better players to improve yourself but I hate not feeling I can give someone a run for their money. Or feeling that they may just be trying to get it over with.

I'm going to go through chess for kids, then chess for pillocks, rewatch that discussion (i'd rather watch all the moves play out rather than jump position to position though I am massively enjoying this). And then maybe try playing a game or two online when i'm tilted from poker!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 12, 2012, 11:26:29 PM
Age makes no difference. The sooner you realise there are kids a third of your age who can own your soul the better. Get over it and focus on your own game!

The world number 1 is 21 years of age. There are 12 and 13 year old grandmasters. Makes you sick :)



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: titaniumbean on November 12, 2012, 11:40:09 PM
Age makes no difference. The sooner you realise there are kids a third of your age who can own your soul the better. Get over it and focus on your own game!

The world number 1 is 21 years of age. There are 12 and 13 year old grandmasters. Makes you sick :)




yup kinda foolish descriptions, I merely meant that I suck. rofl. :)up


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 12, 2012, 11:52:35 PM
http://www.ukgamesshop.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=lcc

Chess and Bridge is probably the best chess shop about. You will see there's a section for new starters with books, DVDs and sets.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on November 13, 2012, 12:05:21 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: go to http://www.chesskids.com/lessons04.shtml, and work through the lessons. If you ignore that it's for kidz, you'll be well on the way.

That's brilliant thanks.

Just went through 'the fatal diagonal'. I won't be moving 'foolish Freddie' again in a hurry!!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: MintTrav on November 13, 2012, 01:00:06 AM
Korchnoi played some exhibitions in Ireland in 1981 and I went to watch the one in Dublin. He was about to challenge Karpov again for the World Championship, so it was a big deal at the time. He played 30 games simultaneously and, from memory, I believe he won 26, lost 3 and drew 1. Again from memory, I think the opponents had to be rated 1800-2200 to apply. One thing I do remember was that, even then, he struck me as being a bit old to be playing at the level he was. The other thing I remember clearly was the speed of his play. The opponent had to be ready to make their move when he reached them and had to make it as he came to their board. Almost always, he responded instantly and moved on. The first couple of laps, he walked really fast, hardly breaking stride for each move. He slowed down a bit as the games developed but, no doubt, he had seen all of the positions many times; or tougher versions in fact. He actually went 1-0 down, losing the first game to finish, which was against a guy in his mid-teens, who got lots of back-slaps when Korchnoi knocked over his King and moved on.

I remember standing behind one player for quite some time. During the middle-game, while Korchnoi was off at the other side of the room, there was quite a discussion with 3-4 other spectators about the best line to take. When Korchnoi arrived, the player made the agreed best move and Korchnoi instantly replied with a move that was totally devastating to our position. Once he had done it, it was blindingly obvious but until he did, none of us came close to seeing it. That player's name, Prof Luce, stuck in my memory and I guess this was him - http://www.tcd.ie/Classics/jvl/. I see that one of Korchnoi's books, with the score-sheet from the Korchnoi-Luce game taped inside, signed by Korchnoi, was sold at auction last year for €40.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 13, 2012, 08:10:31 AM
Brilliant story, MintTrav. To play 30 players of that strength and achieve such a stellar result is very impressive.

For those who don't know, Korchnoi is like Keres (who we discussed a couple of weeks ago) in that he has always been the bridesmaid in the World Championship and never took the title. His misfortune was to be around when Karpov was peaking, only to see Kasparov take over.

He is still going and still plays to about 2500 even at 81 years of age.

There has been some discission on other threads about St Petersburg and Viktor is one of its famous sons.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: TightEnd on November 13, 2012, 11:11:00 AM
exciting times Chez Tighty

Late last night I executed my first successful Rook sacrifice, leading to mate a few moves later

Against a higher ranked player


I blame this thread for having even less time than I previously had!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 13, 2012, 11:29:15 AM
Fabulous! Fine work, sir


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on November 13, 2012, 12:39:18 PM
I'll see your rook sacrifice and raise you a queen sacrifice  :)

(http://i50.tinypic.com/1467ix.png)

White to move and admittedly it really isn't a difficult sacrifice to make from this position - but I think it's probably only about the second time where I've lost my queen through a deliberate sacrifice as opposed to swapping pieces or a screw up.

And it can't ever not be cool to win a game with a queen sacrifice  :D


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on November 13, 2012, 03:06:34 PM
That's more of an exchange (a good one, obviously), than a sacrifice.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on November 13, 2012, 03:43:05 PM
That's more of an exchange (a good one, obviously), than a sacrifice.

gtfo I lose a queen and don't gain one in return - it's a sacrifice  :D


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on November 13, 2012, 04:47:51 PM
Why don't you gain one in return? Did he resign?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: titaniumbean on November 13, 2012, 05:40:49 PM
Qc5-f8?
Rg8-f8
Pg7-f8?

 I got no idea?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 13, 2012, 05:42:52 PM
Qcf-f8?
Rg8-f8
Pg7-f8?

 I got no idea?

Looks like you have at least one to me.

What happens after the third move you've put down, when the pawn captures the rook on f8?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 13, 2012, 05:49:30 PM
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8632

Topalov won yesterday with a sacrifice, but it was much less concrete. He gave a rook for a bishop with the idea of opening up Nisipeanu's defences. It didn't result in checkmate but, if you play through the moves, you will see that Black has extra pieces but they are defending and nothing more.

What's the use in having powerful weapons and having them minding their own business, gathering dust?

The end position leaves White able to take another pawn and he has too many pawns for Black to stop.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: titaniumbean on November 13, 2012, 05:50:33 PM
ah piss and shit. ya I thought for some reason the king moved to the left not noticing pawnys advance to it's hide away square.


I overlooked the little pawn man, sorry pawny


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 13, 2012, 06:21:31 PM
You don't need to apologise for finding the right move!

Qf8 ftw


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: cambridgealex on November 13, 2012, 06:35:26 PM
ah piss and shit. ya I thought for some reason the king moved to the left not noticing pawnys advance to it's hide away square.


I overlooked the little pawn man, sorry pawny

Think I want your babies Titbeam. Coming Prague?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 13, 2012, 08:12:42 PM
The women's World Championship is underway now and it is being done by way of a 64 player knockout. The favourite is Hou Yifan, who is owning women's chess at the moment.

India's Humpy Koneru is leading the peleton. Both made short work of their first rounds.

Alexandra Kosteniuk tends to make the press as not only the 2008 champion but also because she's been known to pose for - generally tasteful - photos.

Here's her website: http://www.kosteniuk.com/


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 13, 2012, 08:14:41 PM
(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/events/wwcc013.jpg)

The round begins.

And here are a few more pics of the movers and shakers: http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8634



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: titaniumbean on November 13, 2012, 08:25:02 PM
ah piss and shit. ya I thought for some reason the king moved to the left not noticing pawnys advance to it's hide away square.


I overlooked the little pawn man, sorry pawny

Think I want your babies Titbeam. Coming Prague?



This would be medically and evolutionary challenging.


Tempted by Pragueaments yes, would love to get there and not be ill, or to mbe even win some maneys.


So charged for the Risk tournament!




edit also dam you tal. I read your RSQ thread thing (never read one before) and I got stuck watching the 1958 game you mentioned. So I haven't had time to re-read the rsq thread, i'm stilll watching the mid game of this and not having a clue about a few of the moves. I obviously just cant see 1/100000th of what they see.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 13, 2012, 09:07:55 PM
That Tal game is out of this world IMO. Modern games are intense and full of counterattacks, but this was over 50 years ago and is three games rolled into one.

I used to have a 2.5hour lesson on a Saturday morning with my coach. We'd spend about an hour of that each week on a master game (anything from the years 1880 to 2010). Tal v Panno took us about 4 hours over two lessons. It was gruelling stuff.

Take any position from about 10 moves in where it is White to move. Then create a list of possible moves, trim away the ones it obviously won't be, then start wading through the tactics. It is mind blowing.

I really wouldn't recommend going too heavily into it. Consider it like reading James Joyce.

It is nevertheless fun to play through and see how Tal changes tack at stages to secure the win. If you are going to pick a Tal game to play through in more detail, I'd just recommend a different one :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 13, 2012, 09:17:27 PM
In the same year, Tal played this game, which is much easier on the eye: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1139428

Bobotsov was a decent player but a player of our hero's level would expect to do well against him. Tal played a King's Indian Defence, which isn't popular at the highest level these days but is still common everywhere else. Bobotsov plays the sharpest response, called the Sämisch Variation, which he made still sharper by castling queen side, so the battle was on to see who would expose whose king first.

Have some fun with it by playing a game of "Guess the move". You can press the > button then to see how you got on.

This is a classic Tal game: absolutely relentless.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: titaniumbean on November 13, 2012, 09:20:04 PM
oh lol I mean i'm just watching it play out in the replayer, then go back 5 moves because I get confused and I try and see what general idea they have, where they are aiming to strengthen their position etc.  

From memory the things that confused me initially, were the set of rook moves from black around 14-17. I couldn't see a purpose, though quite blatantly I have no idea what could be better ldo.


I watched it all the way through the first time, and there was some stuff later on that I was completely clueless about, but thought i'd not understand any so just trying to go back through it not particularly in detail but those rooks moves really confused me.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 13, 2012, 09:34:23 PM
Rook moves? You def looking at this game?

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1139398

A characteristic of Tal's games was that he liked to jump his rooks off. This is a chess expression. It means moving the pawn in front of the rook forward, then bringing the took up and swinging it across for an attack. This is now accepted in today's game but was novel in the late fifties


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: titaniumbean on November 13, 2012, 09:36:53 PM
yup yup the one from rsq question in 58.


The moves around 13-19 where black moves his rooks up the right, but it doesn't seem to achieve anything. I dunno i'm pants.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 13, 2012, 09:42:59 PM
By rooks do you mean knights?

In the game, Panno plays a reasonably standard variation against the Ruy Lopez opening and the intention is to attack on the queenside (the right as he sees it). He puts both of his knights there as they can help get in behind the white defences. That's a pretty standard idea in this opening.

As you see, Tal allows that to happen and makes an incredible set of sacrifices in the process.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: titaniumbean on November 13, 2012, 09:50:31 PM
oh ffs

i'll just never return to this thread.


I blame it on the severe bout of man flu i'm suffering. Ie I sniffed 4 times today.



what a pleb. mass apologies.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: titaniumbean on November 13, 2012, 09:51:06 PM
By rooks do you mean knights?

In the game, Panno plays a reasonably standard variation against the Ruy Lopez opening and the intention is to attack on the queenside (the right as he sees it). He puts both of his knights there as they can help get in behind the white defences. That's a pretty standard idea in this opening.

As you see, Tal allows that to happen and makes an incredible set of sacrifices in the process.

yeh this was the next section I didn't understand because it felt like we were giving up too much. thanks :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 13, 2012, 09:53:08 PM
Ah that would explain it!

Hopefully I've answered your question anyway.

I play something similar as Black for the first dozen moves, as it happens.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: titaniumbean on November 13, 2012, 09:57:35 PM
god i'm so tilted about how much of an idiot I can manage to be. I surprise even myself lol


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 13, 2012, 10:11:52 PM
god i'm so tilted about how much of an idiot I can manage to be. I surprise even myself lol

Not at all. I managed to recommend a horse on Tips for Tikay a while back on the basis of its form at a course it had never actually run at before. THAT was embarrassing. You asked a good question but got a word wrong.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: titaniumbean on November 13, 2012, 10:35:53 PM
god i'm so tilted about how much of an idiot I can manage to be. I surprise even myself lol

Not at all. I managed to recommend a horse on Tips for Tikay a while back on the basis of its form at a course it had never actually run at before. THAT was embarrassing. You asked a good question but got a word wrong.

that was probably better than most of the others lol


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 14, 2012, 08:38:17 AM

The Kings Tournament came to a dramatic dénouement yesterday, with two active draws leaving the table looking like this:

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/bucharest/buchcross-06.gif)

...which, as is customary, meant a playoff. Although each player had a set amount of time to complete their moves, there is popularity these days for what is called the Fischer time control, which involves adding seconds to a player's remaining time whenever he makes a move. In this case, three seconds. This means that, if a player gets short of time, he can make moves quickly and not lose on the clock.

Remember that if you run out of time, as long as your opponent isn't left with a bare king (in other words, as long as he theoretically has enough material left to checkmate you, including a pawn, which can queen), you lose.

Topalov fell foul of this and that cost him the tournament, as Ivanchuk lifted the trophy.




Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 14, 2012, 08:38:50 AM
(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/bucharest/ivanchuk06.jpg)

Winner winner Chucky dinner


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 14, 2012, 08:42:13 AM
Only two decisive games in the whole comp could be seen as there having been a boring tournament but it is more a reflection of the missed chances that have come and gone in a few games. Caruana didn't get into top gear and Topalov missed a couple of opportunities to take top spot.

In the end, this was Ivanchuk's tournament.

Next stop for us all is London, although none of these four will be there.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 15, 2012, 08:38:04 AM
The World Youth Championships are underway. Here is a report of the action so far:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8636

Some games and videos for you, as well as such fabulous pics as these:

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/misc/maribor02.jpg)

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/misc/maribor07.jpg)

And the obligatory crying child...

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/misc/maribor05.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 18, 2012, 01:13:56 PM
Alekhine constructed a brilliant two volume collection of his best games, which he annotated and explained. One of the games was one he played against Marshall in 1927 and for which he won a spot prize in the tournament in which it featured (it is customary for a Game of the Day prize, a Game of the Tournament prize or what was then a Brilliancy Prize).

I have found a website which plays through games in detail, explaining why each move was played. I hope this will be helpful, as it is a neat game (albeit with a funny opening - I wouldn't worry too much about it, although you might come up against someone making suboptimal moves in the openings against you when you play online, I suppose). It is always instructive to see how a player builds an attack and hits weaknesses.

Black got into a bit of a muddle with his pieces and didn't develop quickly enough. This enabled White to "get his bits out and castle" way ahead and was ready to attack. When Black opened up the centre to try to relieve the pressure, he found himself vulnerable and White executed his plan beautifully.

http://www.mark-weeks.com/aboutcom/aa07j20.htm

In the final position, just for completeness, I should explain that, if Black swaps his queen for the rook, although he will stop the checkmate, he will still be too far behind to save the game: the queen is parading around the board and the e-pawn will take some stopping.

By all means, let me know if this sort of thing is instructive.   


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 19, 2012, 08:22:09 AM
A quick one today.

Some photographs of the 1936 Nottingham tournament taken from Edward Winter's Chess Notes website:

http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/nottingham.html

(http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/pics/cn3474_lasker.jpg)

Lasker playing golf

(http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/pics/cn4935_nottingham4.jpg)

The familiar smokey gaze of Alekhine

(http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/pics/cn4935_nottingham11.jpg)

Incredible how close the kibiters are. Compare and contrast the glass cube we saw a few weeks ago.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 20, 2012, 08:17:54 AM
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8643

While the Kings tournament was going on, there was a schools tournament running alongside, with the aim of inspiring the new generation.

Some wonderful pictures for you. The actions look the same in any language.

They include:

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/misc/buchsimul07.jpg)

And

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/misc/buchsimul09.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 21, 2012, 08:36:55 AM
Some more Master Moves for you this morning:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=7103

Solutions are at the bottom of the linked page, so have fun.

BTW I should explain that these were all moves played in the 2011 Melody Amber Blindfold Tournament, so neither White nor Black can see the board.

You're looking for material wins on the whole (so if you win a bishop or a couple of pawns, that would be enough).

Number 8 is a ripsnorter


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: TightEnd on November 24, 2012, 12:04:58 PM
Hello sir

I am 1250 rated on an online chess site when I started at 1100 a few weeks ago by trying to play those ranked higher than myself. Does this correspond to a global chess ranking system?


If I find myself material up, say a pawn or more, my default is to try to swap material off so that my advantage cannot be nullified by oppo's material giving him flexibility, and the value of my material gain is larger....

Does this sound logical, and would it have any basis in chess theory?

(I am just on the slippery slope whereby I am about to buy chess books. Watch out Professionals)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 24, 2012, 12:16:57 PM
The ratings do correlate with the international rating system although if you are playing 15 minute games, it is a different skill set (think limited overs cricket).

As for your strategy, you're bob on. If you have extra material, in general, swaps suit you. The player who is behind should try to keep at least one rook on the board for some counterplay but if he doesn't you find yourself with an extra pawn at the end.

It is very important then to know what to do in a King + Pawn v King endgame. There are some basic rules to follow and some positions to look for/avoid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_and_pawn_versus_king_endgame

The authority Wiki quotes is - and I got a wonderfully pleasant surprise when I just saw this - my old coach and good friend, Peter Griffiths.

There are also some instructive YouTube videos about foe those who like having these things played out in front of them.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Ant040689 on November 24, 2012, 05:57:51 PM
Not sure if mentioned on the thread already, but I watched Kasparov in the documentary Game Over this morning. Was an interesting watch.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 25, 2012, 02:15:10 AM
Not sure if mentioned on the thread already, but I watched Kasparov in the documentary Game Over this morning. Was an interesting watch.

Not aware of it at all, Ant, to be honest.

Will be sure to have a look for it.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Ant040689 on November 25, 2012, 04:02:44 AM
Not sure if mentioned on the thread already, but I watched Kasparov in the documentary Game Over this morning. Was an interesting watch.

Not aware of it at all, Ant, to be honest.

Will be sure to have a look for it.

It is a documentary on his loss to the 'Deep Blue' IBM machine in 1997. Kasparov claims as well as the computer element there was also human interaction, so he claimed they were cheating. I have watched the American prodigy player back in the day as well, forget his name and enjoyed that as well.

Such a complicated game and think it is too late for me to go ahead and enjoy it as I don't think I will ever get to a standard I would like.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 25, 2012, 09:31:05 AM
Really is never too late to enjoy the game, but, like poker, you have to be prepared to accept that there might be limitations to your game. You can enjoy it at whatever level you find, as you can play people of your level.

Kasparov said that he set a trap for Deep Blue, in that a computer would not "see" a particular move. It did and Kasparov his declared that it must have been a human.

The American prodigy is possibly Josh Waitskin, who was the subject of a film called Innocent Moves (later In Search of Bobby Fischer). He didn't live up to the potential the film slathered upon him but he did become an International Master (one below a Grandmaster)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Ant040689 on November 25, 2012, 09:35:36 AM
It was actually Bobby Fischer. The doc was pretty great. I do enjoy a good doc and after watching two chess ones now I know I can really watch anything in the documentary format and find it interesting. I say that about Chess because I have basically never played a game in my life, but both docs transcended the game and was talking a lot more about the occasion.

Really disappointed I wasn't brought up on chess as it must aid in expanding your horizons intellectually as a child and that must help in other areas of academia. Grow in confidence with chess and bookwork can seem more like a doddle when faced with tough decisions.

Think I might introduce my two little nieces to the game and just beat them up at it until the students become the master.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 25, 2012, 09:39:57 AM
It was actually Bobby Fischer. The doc was pretty great. I do enjoy a good doc and after watching two chess ones now I know I can really watch anything in the documentary format and find it interesting. I say that about Chess because I have basically never played a game in my life, but both docs transcended the game and was talking a lot more about the occasion.

Really disappointed I wasn't brought up on chess as it must aid in expanding your horizons intellectually as a child and that must help in other areas of academia. Grow in confidence with chess and bookwork can seem more like a doddle when faced with tough decisions.

Think I might introduce my two little nieces to the game and just beat them up at it until the students become the master.

I've said this a hundred times: there is no better way to learn than to teach.

Your nieces will ask questions you don't know the answer to and, rather than bluff, you'll likely feel obliged to find out the answer with them. When you get it, it is just about the best feeling in chess.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Ant040689 on November 25, 2012, 11:24:00 AM
You must have mentioned this before, but is there a great beginners book to buy to get started in the game. There must be loads but is there 'the one'. The super system equivalent?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 25, 2012, 11:57:45 AM
Super System isn't a beginners book really as you have to have a fair amount of basic knowledge before the chapters really make sense. The equivalent of that is My System by Aron Nimzowitsch. Again, not a beginners book but I'd pitch it at about the same level.

Ant, I should just say my support of this book has drawn criticism - perhaps meritoriously - on this thread from some who believe some of the concepts are a little too advanced for developing players.

If you are learning the very basics, there are plenty of perfectly decent books about that will explain the essentials (equivalents of say Cloutier and McAvoy's books). There is a Chess for Dummies book that is much the same as any other in the series.

No one book I would recommend over another, other than to suggest you have a look in Waterstone's or at reviews online and see whether any take your fancy.

The London Chess Centre (the shop is called Chess and Bridge) is one of the best vendors around and, if you give them a call, they will talk you through what they think might be most helpful. They only recruit (at least this was the policy a few years back and not aware of it having changed) who have a certain level of chess knowledge and that is rather useful.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Ant040689 on November 25, 2012, 12:15:20 PM
Super System isn't a beginners book really as you have to have a fair amount of basic knowledge before the chapters really make sense. The equivalent of that is My System by Aron Nimzowitsch. Again, not a beginners book but I'd pitch it at about the same level.

Ant, I should just say my support of this book has drawn criticism - perhaps meritoriously - on this thread from some who believe some of the concepts are a little too advanced for developing players.

If you are learning the very basics, there are plenty of perfectly decent books about that will explain the essentials (equivalents of say Cloutier and McAvoy's books). There is a Chess for Dummies book that is much the same as any other in the series.

No one book I would recommend over another, other than to suggest you have a look in Waterstone's or at reviews online and see whether any take your fancy.

The London Chess Centre (the shop is called Chess and Bridge) is one of the best vendors around and, if you give them a call, they will talk you through what they think might be most helpful. They only recruit (at least this was the policy a few years back and not aware of it having changed) who have a certain level of chess knowledge and that is rather useful.

Thanks!

I will be inquiring about it and getting on with it shortly. Always wanted to play a game other than poker for a while and hopefully this fills the void. COD/FIFA doesn't do it for me!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 25, 2012, 12:23:50 PM
...and rightly so!

Neither are Street Fighter 2 Turbo.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Ant040689 on November 25, 2012, 12:37:03 PM
If we still did have a super nintendo though, Chess goes out the window. That console raised me.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 26, 2012, 06:50:36 PM
Been a little while since I did a tourney report and this will only be a little one. We have the London Chess Classic to look forward to this coming weekend.

Two of the runners were in action in Mexico to play a sort of exhibition as part of a bigger tournament going on at the time.

Magnus Carlsen and Judith Polgar were two of the four invited to play a rapid play/blindfold tournament. Both put away their opponents and met in the final. The idea is they play one game with a short amount of time on their clock and another game afterwards where they cannot see the board at all.

The shock was that Carlsen was beaten by Polar in their rapid play game but he reset the balance with a masterly blindfold game. He then went on to win the blitz playoff comfortably, although the hosts have failed to give us the details of the final games.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8657

So Magnus heads to London with another trophy for the cabinet.

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/misc/unam12-09.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: millidonk on November 27, 2012, 03:31:39 PM
'A little chess story'

So.. I was kicked out by my mum at 16 for being a bit of a wrongun. Didn't speak to her for a couple of years then at 18 decided to visit her again.. had a massive bust up and didn't step foot in her house again until the weekend before last at the tender age of 28. (fwiw had spoken a few times and seen each other twice at neutral venues during these 10 yrs) I digress.

I thought during this time any memory of me would have been burned or tossed away but to my surprise there was a few boxes of my stuff from when I was a wee nipper.

First photo I stumble across is this one of me below: not only am I sporting the jacket tied across the chest look like a complete 10 year old balla but I also happen to be playing a game of chess vs my second best friend Matthew Chiu, someone I regularly destroyed, who later went on to study at Cambridge and became a doctor whilst I discovered a love for white lightening and girls with loose or no morals.

(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/Milligan84/mechess-1.jpeg)

Lets see your chess photos peoples.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on November 27, 2012, 03:39:34 PM
Haha, will have to see if my dad has any of me.  Bound to somewhere...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Acidmouse on November 27, 2012, 03:41:00 PM
Haha, will have to see if my dad has any of me.  Bound to somewhere...

got any from times in leeds?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on November 27, 2012, 03:42:00 PM
Haha, will have to see if my dad has any of me.  Bound to somewhere...

got any from times in leeds?

Will ask.  I was only a few years old when we left Leeds though, wasn't playing chess until I was three :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: titaniumbean on November 27, 2012, 04:55:53 PM
Sick jumper tekkers Millidonk!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 28, 2012, 08:22:33 AM
http://www.chess.com/article/view/beginner-mating-patterns-part-1

Thanks for sharing that window to the early nineties, Milli.

I hope that something more basic than my usual posts will be of use and interest to those who read but don't post (much) - shall we call them kibitzers?

Above is an article on chess.com's website about the basic ways to deliver checkmate in a game. These are the shapes and patterns we all use when mounting an attack.




Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 28, 2012, 01:14:36 PM
A press release for the London Chess Classic, which starts this Saturday.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8665

I cannot recommend a visit highly enough, whatever level you are.

The tournament site also points out:

 
   
The 4th London Chess Classic 2012 will again offer free admission to children for the duration of the event which runs from December 1st to 10th.
 
Once again we are offering a comprehensive program of schools activities.
 
Adult and junior ticket holders receive admission to the tournament, which is being staged at London's prestigious Olympia Conference Centre, plus a guaranteed seat in the auditorium and access to the Commentary Room where some of the UK's leading Grandmasters will give insights into the play and answer questions.

 


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: skolsuper on November 28, 2012, 10:26:55 PM
Hey Tal, quick question: Is an endgame of rook+pawn vs bishop+3 pawns decided one way or the other or is it still all to play for? Is there a favourite? All 4 pawns are in their own half of the board, i.e. not close to promoting.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 28, 2012, 10:34:30 PM
Hey Tal, quick question: Is an endgame of rook+pawn vs bishop+3 pawns decided one way or the other or is it still all to play for? Is there a favourite? All 4 pawns are in their own half of the board, i.e. not close to promoting.

Ooh tough one to give you a straight answer. The further back and less connected the pawns are, the more you favour the rook.

If the pawns are well connected and the bishop and can look after the opposition pawn, there are good drawing chances.

Rare for the bishop+3 to be winning against rook+1.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: skolsuper on November 29, 2012, 12:36:22 AM
Hey Tal, quick question: Is an endgame of rook+pawn vs bishop+3 pawns decided one way or the other or is it still all to play for? Is there a favourite? All 4 pawns are in their own half of the board, i.e. not close to promoting.

Ooh tough one to give you a straight answer. The further back and less connected the pawns are, the more you favour the rook.

If the pawns are well connected and the bishop and can look after the opposition pawn, there are good drawing chances.

Rare for the bishop+3 to be winning against rook+1.


OK cool, I thought as much and offered a draw since I couldn't really see a way forward, but after my opponent accepted I put it in a computer and discovered I was +1.5 :(. Villain's pawn was on one edge, my pawns were 1 in the centre and 2 connected on the opposite edge. My bishop was the correct colour for the pawn's promoting square. Last time I offer a draw, thinking about it now, it's a negative freeroll right?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 29, 2012, 01:03:47 AM
Hey Tal, quick question: Is an endgame of rook+pawn vs bishop+3 pawns decided one way or the other or is it still all to play for? Is there a favourite? All 4 pawns are in their own half of the board, i.e. not close to promoting.

Ooh tough one to give you a straight answer. The further back and less connected the pawns are, the more you favour the rook.

If the pawns are well connected and the bishop and can look after the opposition pawn, there are good drawing chances.

Rare for the bishop+3 to be winning against rook+1.


OK cool, I thought as much and offered a draw since I couldn't really see a way forward, but after my opponent accepted I put it in a computer and discovered I was +1.5 :(. Villain's pawn was on one edge, my pawns were 1 in the centre and 2 connected on the opposite edge. My bishop was the correct colour for the pawn's promoting square. Last time I offer a draw, thinking about it now, it's a negative freeroll right?

Hang on. You're the bishop + 3? Remember I said that it might favour the rook, so a draw could be good for you. Never any harm in playing on in these spots. Two ways you can win:

1. Lose win rook because the bishop checks him and attacks the rook at the same time;
2. You queen one of the pawns

The kings help in endgames more than people realise. A strong, active king is worth as much as a pawn of itself, because you can seize the initiative and keep the opposing king from coming forward to help out. 


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 29, 2012, 01:30:36 AM
I've shied away from giving straight answers on that question because it is so difficult to be specific; it depends so much on the position of the pieces. If you put it into an engine and it told you you were +1.5 (that means one and a half pawns up, which would likely be enough to win in theory), there is your answer.

If the rook is active and the pawns are disparate and far back, it should be a reasonably straightforward job for the rook to win. Any other position makes it more difficult to win. If the pawns have come forward together, supported by the king and the bishop is keeping an eye on the opposing pawn, the other side is starting to get the advantage and could even win. Perhaps that's where you were.

If you want to learn the game, take a screen shot of the position when the other guy offered you the draw, reject the draw offer, play on and assess the position after the game, whatever the result. It's too tempting to accept draws when we don't know who is winning, but - and this is poker thinking - the other guy is of the same mindset, so we know he will not be enjoying life when you decline his offer and demand to play on.

Watch what he is up to but advance your pawns, support them by getting your king into the centre and get him thinking about how to defend, rather than how to attack. 


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 29, 2012, 01:55:46 AM
I was asked today (well yesterday, actually) on the Tips for Tikay thread what the advantage is for White in moving first. Here is a wiki page explaining the numbers, the history, the changing views over time and some examples:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-move_advantage_in_chess



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 29, 2012, 09:59:17 AM
A wonderful article on Judit Polgar in the Independent today:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/i-never-wanted-mens-pity-chess-child-prodigy-judit-polgar-on-the-games-inherent-sexism-8340951.html

If you don't know the story of Judit and her sisters, this is well worth five minutes of your day.

She isn't in London to make up the numbers or to be the token girl.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on November 29, 2012, 11:58:48 AM
A wonderful article on Judit Polgar in the Independent today:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/i-never-wanted-mens-pity-chess-child-prodigy-judit-polgar-on-the-games-inherent-sexism-8340951.html

If you don't know the story of Judit and her sisters, this is well worth five minutes of your day.

She isn't in London to make up the numbers or to be the token girl.



Great article.  Not sure about this bit:

"Laszlo, an educational psychologist by profession, had wanted to demonstrate that what we call 'genius' is not a naturally occurring or genetically created phenomenon, but could be achieved by any child, given intensive early tuition on a one-to-one basis"

Surely the control for this experiment would have been to coach a group of children from different families (and therefore different genetic make-up) and compare them after a period of equivalent training/education.  Also would have been good to not coach/train one of his own kids and then give them an abridged and less-effective training/education in chess - to see if they could compete (again in a control group). 

His 'experiment' can't distinguish between causation and correlation.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 29, 2012, 12:11:23 PM
In other words: variance innit

:)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Camel on November 30, 2012, 06:22:04 PM
Asked this question twice on TfT thread and you've studiously ignored it.

Asking her so you can't claim you didn't see it!


What does a second get from this relationship?

A share of the prize money, or just valuable experience of working with a better player?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 30, 2012, 06:29:10 PM
Asked this question twice on TfT thread and you've studiously ignored it.

Asking her so you can't claim you didn't see it!


What does a second get from this relationship?

A share of the prize money, or just valuable experience of working with a better player?

Sorry Camel! Didn't see it at all, I promise!

I suspect the answer is a bit of both, although more the latter than the former. The top players get their expenses covered by the organisers so the cost of bringing a second isn't prohibitive. Would be surprised if there weren't a financial reward as well.

Roger Federer must have a practice partner he plays with at events?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on November 30, 2012, 08:07:40 PM
Preview of the London Chess Classic for you:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8665

All the personnel, all the details and all the pairings are there. If you were looking at visiting, it is cheaper in the week by a fiver.

I will endeavour to bring you daily updates on the action and will be looking for any value in the betting markets which I will post on Tips for Tikay to keep the betting angle separate.

I have tipped Magnus Carlsen to win as not only is he the best and most in-form of the competitors, but he has a decent draw with colours. He faces a tricky first game against Luke McShane, who recently became British Number one for the first time.

I'm excited about the prospect of some of the games and about the possibility of Carlsen becoming the highest-rated player of all time if he can finish in the top couple (depending on results).

I am looking to go down to watch either this Sunday or next weekend. If you fancy the trip, let me know and I'll be happy to chat over an overpriced West London beverage.

Venue is right by Kensington Olympia station and there is a direct train there from Watford Junction (if you are travelling from the Midlands like wot I is, for example).


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 01, 2012, 11:01:00 AM
(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/london/lcc007.jpg)

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8676

The London Chess Classic - the strongest tournament ever held on British soil - kicks off this afternoon. Here are the details of yesterday's press conference and a few amusing moments.

Carlsen's second has been granted a visa now so he can finally get back to trying to win games.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 01, 2012, 02:22:50 PM
Live games are here:

http://www.londonchessclassic.com/index.htm

There are 'phone and tablet-friendly servers as well.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 01, 2012, 09:27:52 PM
Worth pointing out that one of the four games is still going on...

Started at 2pm. There are no dinner breaks, no 20 minute "let's see if you can do your brains on the roulette tables" breaks.

Adams is two pawns up against Gawain Jones but it is a tough one to win. 90 moves have been made by each player and the grind continues.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 02, 2012, 11:26:47 AM
Round one of a tournament is often a cagey affair. No one wants to concede ground early on and risks are reserved for only the most savage contemptibles.

Not here.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8678

Four decisive games out of four and a brilliant game between Carlsen and McShane. Luke played with heart, flamboyance and measured timing and built an attack against Carlsen's Berlin Defence that could - and possibly as should - have been decisive. As it was, he couldn't turn his advantage into a win but had the consolation of being level in the endgame and being very good at chess. Draw then?

Not a bit of it.

Carlsen wins drawn endgames for fun. It is a truly astonishing feat to beat such gifted players in these positions time and time again.

The Tips for Tikay thread came within a whisker of registering a real coup having backed McShane at 7-1 but it can rest happily that the man it has backed to win overall is in very fine form indeed.

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/london/r01-04.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on December 02, 2012, 11:42:16 AM
Hi Tal, from what position in this game do you think McShane should have converted from?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 02, 2012, 12:00:34 PM
Hi Tal, from what position in this game do you think McShane should have converted from?

Good question, Baron.

If you have a look at the position after about 26 moves, McShane's pieces are looking at the Black king and Carlsen has put all his pieces back to defend. When I was watching the game on the internet yesterday, I had Shredder going on my phone to help me assess the position. He preferred Re1 to Kh1 and, as Carlsen immediately equalised after Kh1 by swapping the pieces off, that is probably the critical position.

Tough to say as, hilariously, my Shredder app is only rated at 2600, whereas McShane is over 100 points clear of that. Nevertheless, I'd take Shredder's view in that position unless told otherwise, as I'm not convinced Kh1 was right.

It is a small edge as, unless White forces a weakness in Black's position (say he forces one of the pawns on the kingside to move), he won't be able to break through.

I had a think about how to explain it. It is like being an early break up in a tennis match against a good returner. You have five long service games to hold to win the set and there is little room for error. In this case, McShane knew that Carlsen is not going to lose if they end up in a level endgame so he had to press the advantage before the pieces came off or only swap if he was left with a better endgame.

Colours reversed, I expect Carlsen to beat McShane in that position 7 out of 10 or more.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 02, 2012, 12:15:03 PM
Elsewhere, Nakamura never looked in real danger against Aronian. His swashbuckling style took hold and Aronian's slightly surprising choice of 1.c4 (he plays 1.d4 mostly and does very well against Nakamura when he plays it) didn't work.

Polgar has a pretty unpleasant record against Kramnik and despite getting a space advantage early on, she struggled and her opponent is never one to panic when defending.

Michael Adams beat newboy Gawain Jones in a quiet game. If you were to study Adams's games (he has been in the top ten in the world) you would see he routinely makes small moves that seem to be nothing at all but when the position opens up they seem to be in the perfect place. "That was lucky!", you say to yourself. But it keeps happening over and over again, game after game. This was one of those. It is very difficult to define and to describe as a phenomenon but that's the best I can do :)

Today's games are:

Judit Polgar v Gawain Jones

Hikaru Nakamura v Vladmir Kramnik
    
Magnus Carlsen v Levon Aronian
    
Vishy Anand v Luke McShane
    
Michael Adams (bye) – assisting commentary


Game of the day is World Number 1 v World Number 2 but given that Nakamura and Kramnik both won yesterday, there will be a few eyes on whether either can go 2/2. That game could be Nakamura's attack v Kramnik's defence.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on December 02, 2012, 12:16:13 PM
In another sports comparison Carlsen reminds me of a darts player who can just finish better than everyone else at an endgame, and whilst able to do that appears no weaker than the likes of Anand or Kramnik at openings.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 02, 2012, 12:24:39 PM
In another sports comparison Carlsen reminds me of a darts player who can just finish better than everyone else at an endgame, and whilst able to do that appears no weaker than the likes of Anand or Kramnik at openings.

Kramnik ended Kasparov's reign as world champion by playing very solidly - to the point of being labelled boring - and winning in the endgame if Kasparov made a slight mis-step.

Carlsen has moved the game on from there but I do have to qualify it by explaining that all of these players know the theory and are brilliant players in their own right.

Nakamura is not an opening theorist in the way say Anand is. Carlsen has much more opening knowledge than he used to, by virtue of the time he spent with Kasparov. Jones has written a book on a particular opening called the Grand Prix Attack and will be interesting to see if someone wants to take him on in it (you do see that - if someone fancies they have found a flaw in the analysis, they ask the question over the board). Anand did that against Shirov once in a variation that is actually called the Shirov Variation. Shirov had no answer on that occasion.

It is a style thing.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on December 02, 2012, 05:13:58 PM
http://www.theweekinchess.com/chessnews/events/4th-london-chess-classic-20121/carlsen-nakamura-and-kramnik-start-with-wins-at-the-london-chess-classic

looks like they got a nice open tourney going as well , the main website for the London Chess Classic is having problems , has chessbase or anyone else got a good link


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 02, 2012, 05:46:38 PM
http://www.theweekinchess.com/chessnews/events/4th-london-chess-classic-20121/carlsen-nakamura-and-kramnik-start-with-wins-at-the-london-chess-classic

looks like they got a nice open tourney going as well , the main website for the London Chess Classic is having problems , has chessbase or anyone else got a good link

It is back up working now. Am in the commentary room as I type.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 02, 2012, 11:28:21 PM
Round two was a bit of an epic, with all four games going over five hours apiece.

Round 2: Sunday, Dec. 2nd, 2012, 14:00h
Polgar ½-½ Jones
Nakamura 0-1 Kramnik
Carlsen 1-0 Aronian
Anand ½-½ McShane 
Michael Adams (bye) – assisting commentary

Polgar got ahead early but Jones had compensation for his material deficit because his pieces were more active (it's OK having a Challenger 2 Tank in your army barracks but someone has to have the key...). In the end, he had enough to hold but it was a very finely balanced game throughout and the commentators had a horrible time trying to predict the result.

McShane came close again to registering a win but Anand held firm. I suspect he missed a win somewhere but it wasn't to be. He will take scalps this week. He always does.

Kramnik won a very difficult endgame against Nakamura, showing Carlsen he's not the only one who can do it. If you look through the game, you'd think it was easy to win with an extra pawn in an endgame like that, but the problem was Nakamura kept the queens on the board, and that meant the natural plan of moving the king forward was hindered by being checked, checked and checked again. He nevertheless sealed the deal.

First to finish at about 7pm was Carlsen against Aronian. At one point, the commentators suggested Carlsen was in trouble but Aronian couldn't find a way through and perhaps made a mistake which let Magnus in for an important win.

Carlsen and Kramnik now share the lead and they play tomorrow in what is obviously game of the day.

Carlsen has been a bogey player for Kramnik as Vlad has lost games he should have drawn and drawn games he should have won against Magnus in recent years. Kramnik is defending champion in London. Magnus won it the previous two years. Draw probably suits both. They won't play like that though.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 02, 2012, 11:30:58 PM
Games, analysis, commentary and pictures are here:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8681

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/london/lcc-tab01.gif)

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/london/r02-05.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 03, 2012, 11:50:11 PM
Today's game of the day, Adams v Polgar, described and explained by International Master, Andrew Martin.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMc90ZSedv0

Adams has a wonderful ability to have his pieces perfectly placed. I mentioned this the other day. See it in action.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 04, 2012, 12:19:38 AM
Round 3: Monday, Dec. 3rd, 2012, 14:00h
Levon Aronian   ½-½   Vishy Anand            
Vladimir Kramnik   ½-½   Magnus Carlsen            
Gawain Jones   ½-½   Hikaru Nakamura            
Michael Adams   1-0   Judit Polgar            
Luke McShane (bye) – assisting commentary            

There were four long games yesterday and you would expect that to mean the players played quieter openings today, with quieter games, perhaps a bit of energy early on but prepared to settle for a half point if needs be. That was partly true, but the games still took some time to complete, as the field begins to settle.

The headline act today was Kramnik v Carlsen, as the reigning champ took on the man who won it the previous two years. The game was odd in that Kramnik got ahead early but Carlsen defended doggedly for about five hours and his nerve held at the end in a display of why these two are the form players so far this week.

Nakamura played a second long game in a row, only this time fighting for a win rather than a draw. It wasn’t to be, though, as Jones made his second successive save and is finding his feet in this tournament.

Aronian and Anand have drawn a fair bit in the past and, with neither in stellar form at present, this looked on paper like a handshake waiting to happen. However, it was the World Champion, Anand, who looked the more likely to take the full point and he maintained an edge in the position for the majority of the game. Aronian’s style is predominantly about keeping life in a position and he focuses very little on who has more material. This sounds a bit odd, because of course he doesn’t want to lose his queen or get too far behind, but losing a pawn where he has more active pieces is a position he is much more comfortable with than most. So it transpired and Anand couldn’t keep the advantage for long enough to register his first win of the week.

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/london/lcc-tab03b.gif)

That’s the table so far. A reminder that each day sees one player have a day off to help with the commentary, so some of those in the table are a game behind. NFL fans will be used to this sort of thing.

Tomorrow is a later start (4pm) because there is a Chess in Schools and Communities event on in the day for young’uns to come and learn more about the game.

When it does get going, Nakamura will take on the in-form Adams and we will see whether he is getting back to the form that saw him World Number 4 for some time a few years ago or whether it was just that he beat a nervous first timer and a tired player of equal strength.  Tal prediction: Draw

Anand seemed to find a bit of rhythm today and I wonder whether he might think there’s a chance to get some momentum with a win against Kramnik. It will be the top billing tomorrow, as you have the World Champion playing his predecessor. Tal prediction: Draw

Carlsen meanwhile has probably the best draw in being White against bottom seed Gawain Jones. Jones is over 200 points behind him in the ratings and this is the kind of game Carlsen will see as one he can win and send a message to the competition, as he has already played Kramnik and Aronian. Jones is no pushover, though, and his creative and imaginative style makes him dangerous as an opponent. He is also resilient, as he has demonstrated in successive games, making him hard to beat. I suspect his luck might run out tomorrow, though. Tal prediction: Carlsen to win.

Final game is McShane v Aronian and two of the more instinctive, “feel” players face off. McShane beat Aronian in this year’s Tal Memorial and has had a day off from play, wherein you would expect he has been able to do some extra prep on his opponent. Aronian won’t be sure what to expect from McShane and has had three tough games so far in this tournament, including a long fight today. This could be his best chance of a big scalp this week, as he faces Kramnik and Nakamura with Black later on. Call me patriotic. Tal prediction: McShane to win. 

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/london/anand02.jpg)

Is Vishy Anand turning the corner? Find out tomorrow...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on December 04, 2012, 04:02:31 AM
Great updates :)up


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: RED-DOG on December 04, 2012, 09:06:48 AM
Hello Mr Tal. I have a question.

I recall a conversation I had several years ago on this very forum with an erstwhile and much lamented poster named Thomas, AKA 'The Tank'.

He said:

"When people are bemoaning their bad luck at cards, you will often hear someone say something like, "you want a game with no luck where the best player wins all the time, go play chess."

"It's a pet hate of mine. Why have more than two games to decide the world champion if this were true?
"


Personally the only time I ever saw luck come into play in a chess game was during the miners strike of 1974. Ted Heath pulled the plug on TV at about 7:30pm every night in an effort to save energy, so to combat the boredom, 5 of us clubbed up and bought a chess set. We played 10p a game, winner stop on.

Losing was dreadful, not only were you 10p out of pocket, you had rail 3 chess games before you got another turn.

This particular night, my uncle Dennis had me done up like a kipper, the result was a mere formality. I reached out to knock over my king in the traditional gesture of surrender, but as I did so, I inadvertently flicked a piece of sausage from the fork of my brother Tracy, who was sitting next to me having his dinner on his knee.

The bit of sausage landed in my uncle Dennis's lap, and Cindy, a small black and tan terrier jumped up to retrieve it. Much to Tracy's dismay, the bit of sausage was a goner within a second, and in the process, one of my uncle Dennis's knackers suffered considerable collateral damage. He reacted by kicking the chess board up into the air.

I immediately demanded a rematch.

He whined and argued for all he was worth, we had the "It's not fair, you know I would have won" and "I can put the pieces back exactly as they were" speeches and everything, but I was having none of it.

We played a rematch, and with my uncle Dennis on "I wuz robbed"  damaged knacker tilt, I won the rematch easily.

So, in this instance at least, there was an element of luck in chess, but that aside, what's your opinion on the whole 'luck in chess' concept?




   




  


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: TightEnd on December 04, 2012, 09:16:29 AM
lol!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 04, 2012, 09:42:07 AM
That's a heck of a story and thanks for sharing.

There is luck in chess but not often as dramatically displayed as your example. When I get a spare half hour, I'll happily write at length to answer your question.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: RED-DOG on December 04, 2012, 09:44:07 AM
That's a heck of a story and thanks for sharing.

There is luck in chess but not often as dramatically displayed as your example. When I get a spare half hour, I'll happily write at length to answer your question.



 ;popcorn;


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: TightEnd on December 04, 2012, 12:06:02 PM
Bent Larsen "I hate making natural moves" lol, classy rook sac in this

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBTFwPRbR-0


Tal v Fischer

"And now the normal night becomes a MONSTER knight" love it

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-hqiTDp4_A


Watching Tal games, and on a lesser level someone like Larsen is like watching Rodney marsh, Geroge Best and the like in old TV football compilations. You have to admire the flair


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 04, 2012, 01:07:58 PM
Oh absolutely. It is incredible how much the game has moved on since even Tal's day. The modern players don't allow themselves to get into dull, lost positions and will create complications risking losing earlier rather than sit for hours and defend a lost cause.

You could say that the likes of Wilfred Zaha would have more than George Best of the 70s because they have strength and conditioning coaches, regimented training plans, dietary structure, incredibly detailed coaching strategies and so on.

The debate about who was better can rage on and on. Like you,I just enjoy watching the games of Tal and others.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: RED-DOG on December 04, 2012, 07:16:19 PM
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 04, 2012, 09:29:01 PM
If you happen to be about, the McShane-Aronian game is coming to a thrilling conclusion:

http://live4.londonchessclassic.com/2012/live4.classic.htm


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on December 04, 2012, 09:55:31 PM
If you happen to be about, the McShane-Aronian game is coming to a thrilling conclusion:

http://live4.londonchessclassic.com/2012/live4.classic.htm

been glued to it for ages , the queen sack though he was lost early but now against two queens still think he could get a result from it


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 04, 2012, 09:58:28 PM
If you happen to be about, the McShane-Aronian game is coming to a thrilling conclusion:

http://live4.londonchessclassic.com/2012/live4.classic.htm

been glued to it for ages , the queen sack though he was lost early but now against two queens still think he could get a result from it

These are nightmarishly tough. Black should win...I think...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 04, 2012, 10:01:09 PM
Although I would say whatever Aronian gets will be the right result. He's had long enough to work it out!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 04, 2012, 10:07:17 PM
McShane knights the pawn!

Unbelievable, Jeff!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on December 04, 2012, 10:10:23 PM
got to be lost now , think even I could win this


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 04, 2012, 10:12:41 PM
He's playing this beautifully in fairness, is Mr Aronian.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 04, 2012, 10:16:43 PM
Should be a matter of continuing to threaten multiple pieces with the queens. Aronian is looking to force a Zugzwang (for those who don't know, this is where your position is fine but you have to move and that means creating a lost position).

Something has to drop and the game will be over.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on December 04, 2012, 10:18:00 PM
He's playing this beautifully in fairness, is Mr Aronian.

think if Luke McShane had more time , think he could of held it , had to stop that a pawn promoting giving up his Rook & Knight . three pawns against Queen & king is hard to stop


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 04, 2012, 10:18:54 PM
...and now it is.

Fabulous game. A real advert for their style of play and I'm sure it was an absolute nightmare to commentate on!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 05, 2012, 01:20:49 PM
Yesterday saw a good game, two brilliant games and a rotter:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8686

Anand has threatened to look like he’s turning the corner and getting back to looking like the World Champion but yesterday’s game against Kramnik was a real disappointment. Kramnik quickly neutralised any advantage Anand had and the response was then to kill the game off by blocking all the pawns, so that neither player could make any progress. A little of six of one, half a dozen of the other, but I would generally put it to White to be the one trying to win.

The good game saw Adams defend well against Nakamura’s attempts to win a level game and, eventually, Nakamura accepted that he could do no more.

Carlsen would be forgiven for expecting Gawain Jones to play a solid game and to try to find an edge in the position from there. Forgiven but utterly wrong. Jones made a gargantuan sacrifice of his queen for two pieces (a bishop and a knight) so that he would get a more active position. This would have created all sorts of frenzy and hullabaloo in the auditorium, in the commentary room and across the interweb. Carlsen’s played as though he was unflappable and therefore refused to be visibly flapped. He held it together, weathered the storm and soon the material advantage was dominant.

Game of the day by a short head was McShane-Aronian, with the players living up to – at least this commentator’s – expectations. Have a look at the game from the link above after Black’s 44th move. Black has a queen but those four white pawns are connected and ready to roll. It would have been a headache and a half trying to commentate on that, especially with the intensity of two of the other games that afternoon. Eventually, Aronian queened a pawn of his own and then had two queens against a rook, knight and four pawns of McShane. Of course, McShane got his own pawn to the eighth rank, but was unable to queen it, as he would have been checkmated immediately afterwards. Short of time, this would have been difficult to spot too far in advance and, I suspect, the position was lost some time before that anyway. Nevertheless, these things take some winning, and Aronian’s masterly finish is worth a watch.

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/london/lcc017.jpg)

 
(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/london/lcc-tab04a.gif)


Rest day today. Tomorrow afternoon’s fixtures are:

Kramnik v McShane

Jones v Anand

Adams v Carlsen

Polgar v Nakamura

I wouldn’t put four draws as being an enormous surprise.

Lev Aronian will be assisting with the commentary. He’s a very likeable fellow and speaks excellent English. Be sure to tune in if you are able.  


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 06, 2012, 08:35:41 PM
After a day of R and R, what would our fresh-faced warriors have in store for us? Why, only four high level games!

The three Englishmen could not muster as much as a draw between them, as Kramnik, Anand and Carlsen proved merciless foes.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8689

Above is a nice blow-by-blow account of how the action unfolded. The headlines:

Kramnik 1-0 McShane
Adams 0-1 Carlsen
Polgar 0-1 Nakamura
Jones 0-1 Anand

I have just played through the Kramnik game and it really is a joy to watch.

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/london/r05-04.jpg)

Andrew Martin's reviews are excellent:

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13sjWbIBs3Q

Carlsen looked like he was under the cosh for most of the game against Adams but Adams chose quiet advantage over going for the throat and that did not work: Carlsen achieved parity and found himself with the momentum going into the endgame. When Adams made a big mistake at the time control, it was curtains and we got to see another example of the Norwegian's tenacity.

The crosstable now looks like this:

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/london/lcc-tab05a.gif)

Carlsen will be looking to register another win tomorrow as he plays Judit Polgar as white. Kramnik has a tough game against Aronian, who has had two days off (not having played today) so should be prepared. Jones and McShane have a few points to prove and a wild game is an absolute given. Anand v Adams completes the round.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: mondatoo on December 07, 2012, 04:03:54 AM
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.

 rotflmfao

Missed that patter.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 07, 2012, 08:38:16 AM
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.

 rotflmfao

Missed that patter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_boxing

Ever seen this, Red?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: RED-DOG on December 07, 2012, 07:10:17 PM
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.

 rotflmfao

Missed that patter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_boxing

Ever seen this, Red?


That just has to be a spoof.

I'm not having it, so you can piss right off.

 


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 07, 2012, 07:20:16 PM
This was just last week...

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOGgxO1NAu8


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: RED-DOG on December 07, 2012, 07:30:09 PM
Bollocks!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Camel on December 07, 2012, 07:36:26 PM
I'm trying to think of two sports/pastimes you could put togethr which would mean I'm world class at something.

Pie eating / Surfing the internet maybe?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 07, 2012, 07:37:43 PM
This isn't an elaborate fusion of two unrelated videos. I'm not millidonk!

It is an odd world we live in.

The Klitchko brothers are decent chess players and I believe Lennox Lewis played a fair bit. 27 Rocky films and not a single Ruy Lopez


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 07, 2012, 07:38:19 PM
I'm trying to think of two sports/pastimes you could put togethr which would mean I'm world class at something.

Pie eating / Surfing the internet maybe?

If you build it, they will come.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 07, 2012, 08:52:34 PM
(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/london/r06-04.jpg)

The quality and drama continued today, with arguably the best game of the tournament and a blunder that will make the blooper reels for years to come.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8694

Carlsen 1-0 Polgar
Anand 0-1 Adams
Aronian ½-½ Anand
McShane 1-0 Jones

There is such simplicity in the way Carlsen beat Polgar today that it highlights just how special he is. It was like a 20-pass goal by Barcelona: nothing fancy, all side foot 10 yard balls and a Messi clip round the keeper. Polgar is a live wire and capable of blasting open a position. She never stood a chance today.

Anand meanwhile reached the 40move time control against Adams in solid shape. The game was likely drawn and it was time to start planning for tomorrow. He makes a move to threaten checkmate, which you see as much as a way of getting pieces off for a draw as it forces the other player to nullify the attack.

The crowd gasp.

He's missed something.

Adams has a mate himself! It has only been possible because Anand moved his queen away from the f2 pawn he was defending!

After a seemingly eternal dwell - explicable only because you doubt yourself in these positions whoever you're playing, let alone the World Champion - Adams delivered the fatal blow.

McShane and Jones had the predicted mad game and McShane coped best with it.

Kramnik had a small edge in his favourite opening (the Berlin Defence, which he used to great effect to defeat Kasparov for the World title) but Aronian held firm.

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/london/r06-03.jpg)

"Try this one instead, Lev. And wear a fkn tie!!"





Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 07, 2012, 08:54:33 PM
(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/london/lcc-tab06a.gif)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: TightEnd on December 07, 2012, 08:58:55 PM
The Berlin defence is dull, almost unwatchable

Polgar played the hedgehog, but at one stage after about 25 moves had no piece beyond her third rank and no chance to attack. I felt her loss was as much down to her own passivity as Carlsen's flair. She basically left the door open for him to piroutte around like a flashy old so and so.

I had to go out before Anand blundered, sadly

The Live stream is very good, though they stay on a game too long..would rather they flipped to other games and back again more frequently.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 07, 2012, 09:34:01 PM
Not far off the Chessbase review:

Judit Polgar’s hedgehog setup allowed her to get decent chances straight out of the opening. After some inaccuracies Magnus Carlsen gained an edge, and he was able to exploit Black’s terrible piece positions with a very nicely timed e5! With her pieces gasping for air, Judit began to simplify the position by exchanging her dark squared bishop for an opponent’s knight. However, this proved to be a fatal mistake, as her kingside position had too many dark squared weaknesses and not a single piece that could cover them. Magnus swooped in and finished her off elegantly to reach 2864.

23.e5 is an absolute gem. He completely chops Black's position in half. Then when it is time to attack, he unleashes a beaut. After 30...Bg5, Carlsen has to work out a lot of complications. People often ask how far these players can see ahead. My best guess here would be that Carlsen sees at least to move 40 before playing 31.Rf1. He would have to be confident that rook ending is winning to be prepared to swap the other pieces off.

The Berlin is tough to play well. Carlsen has his own favourite "dull" opening called the Breyer variation of the Ruy Lopez. It is a very slow game but the point is players like Carlsen and Kramnik get stronger as the game goes on, so if they can neutralise the position as Black, they can take advantage in level positions.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on December 08, 2012, 12:22:24 AM
I've got myself in a mess with an opening.

I don't know how to post the actual board (can someone show me please) but I've ended up here as black:

1. e4 e5
2. Bc4 Nc6
3. Nf3 Nf6
4. Ng5......

I think I've basically fucked it but wondered if there was a way out?

I can't figure out how to continue without a material disadvantage. Is there a way or do I chalk it up to experience and not let c2 get hammered like this again?



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 08, 2012, 12:27:53 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Knights_Defense,_Fried_Liver_Attack

You have discovered the Fried Liver.

It is very sharp but quite playable as Black. Have a play with that and see how you get on.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on December 08, 2012, 12:34:11 AM
By c2 I obviously meant f7. Always forget to turn the board upside down when I'm black. :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 08, 2012, 08:35:03 AM
By c2 I obviously meant f7. Always forget to turn the board upside down when I'm black. :)


Don't worry. I knew what you meant.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 08, 2012, 10:57:55 PM
Four draws today:

Round 7: Saturday, Dec. 8th, 2012, 14:00h
Gawain Jones    ½-½   Levon Aronian            
Michael Adams    ½-½   Luke McShane            
Judit Polgar    ½-½   Vishy Anand             
Hikaru Nakamura   ½-½   Magnus Carlsen            
Vladimir Kramnik (bye) – assisting commentary   
         

Polgar v Anand had little to offer the spectators and was one of those games that miss out on a spot on the highlight reel. These things happen. Both players have had tough tournaments and a draw will do for today.

Nakamura v Carlsen saw the flair and gusto of the player nicknamed “H-Bomb” taking on the man who has been making all the headlines in the world press today for having become the highest rated player in chess history. Carlsen neutralised the White position by sacrificing a knight for two pawns. This gave him two passed pawns on the queenside and enough to cause Nakamura to sheath his sword. As the game progressed, it became clear that Carlsen had enough to hold the position and a draw was agreed.

For large parts of the Jones v Aronian game, you would be forgiven for thinking that there was one result this game could not have and that was a draw. Jones castled queenside, which was a signal of his intent to go for the throat. Aronian had castled kingside and it is a risky business castling opposite sides, as each player can launch an attack on the enemy king without weakening their own in the process. When the pieces came off – mainly because Aronian decided Jones was getting too much play for his liking – there was little left to attack and the players shook hands after move 31.

By far the longest game was Adams v McShane. Adams needed to win today to put pressure on Carlsen, as the Englishman has two tough games left in Kramnik and Aronian, where expecting to win both might be asking a little too much. Adams got a small edge and pressed it relentlessly. When it all looked like there was no more play left, he kept plugging away, cultivating his advantage, but it wasn’t to be. McShane held firm and put a dent in Adams’s chance of lifting the trophy.

So, how does that leave us?

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/london/lcc-tab07a.gif)

It’s Carlsen’s turn to take a day off and help with the commentary tomorrow. Adams has to win as Black against Aronian to have any chance of winning the title. Kramnik will fancy his chances of beating Jones as White, which would make for an interesting dénouement on Monday. McShane v Polgar and Anand v Nakamura complete the line-up.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 09, 2012, 09:47:52 PM
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8699

The final bit of jockeying for position as the penultimate round came to a conclusion.

Anand ½-½ Nakamura
McShane 0-1 Polgar
Aronian ½-½ Adams
Kramnik 1-0 Jones

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/london/lcc-tab08a.gif)

So it is between Carlsen and Kramnik as to who lifts the trophy tomorrow. Carlsen knows if he wins against Anand, Kramnik's result doesn't matter.

If Carlsen draws (and his record against Anand is almost overwhelmed by draws) and Kramnik wins, then you need a pencil...

First tie break is number of wins. That would be level

Second tie break is number of wins with Black.  Yep. Level.

Third is the result between the two. Draw.

So, it would be a playoff. Two blitz games to decide the champion. This favours Carlsen but not by as much as you might think. Kramnik has excellent opening knowledge and that counts for a lot. This would be a coin flip; like saying you'd take 88 over KJ, because you know there is a few percent in your favour.

Adams is playing for second, mind, and he will relish the prospect of being British Number 1 again at the first opportunity.

Polgar v Aronian smells like a dead rubber, although there is a chance of some extra prize money for the winner.

Nakamura v McShane could be a blood fest.

Marvellous.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 09, 2012, 09:52:47 PM
(http://www.londonchessclassic.com/photos2012/raymorris_hill/round8/LCC_121209_3404-Edit-M.jpg)

(http://www.londonchessclassic.com/photos2012/raymorris_hill/round8/LCC_121209_3395-Edit-Edit-M.jpg)

(http://www.londonchessclassic.com/photos2012/raymorris_hill/round8/LCC_121209_3381-Edit-M.jpg)

(http://www.londonchessclassic.com/photos2012/raymorris_hill/round8/LCC_121209_3382-Edit-M.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on December 09, 2012, 10:50:28 PM
Tough tourney for McShane, I'm a bit gutted about that, love seeing him take some big scalps with agressive play.

Abs loving this - I've watched live tinternet chess all weekend. FML.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 09, 2012, 11:02:40 PM
Yes it hasn't quite worked out this week for Luke. There comes a point where you have to remember he is an amateur player and there will be tourneys where his imaginative solutions and unusual plans don't work. When it all comes together - like the win against Aronian earlier this year or the win against Carlsen here a couple of years ago - it is completely magical.

Jones was excellent in the British Championships but this is a level up from there and you can lose a game without making a mistake (at least in the sense that a couple of suboptimal moves could be enough). He'll get into the 2700 club soon enough and I've no doubt he has the talent to make the top 50. He just needs to control his aggression a bit better (says a rank amateur!). It is his day off tomorrow, so he will finish by helping with the commentary.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 10, 2012, 01:24:50 PM
An article on the emotions involved in a chess match.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8668

Given the level of detail and science involved, this might reasonably be labelled "honeybadger porn", so have a glass of water to-hand before you click the link.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: titaniumbean on December 10, 2012, 10:30:40 PM
scrolled down to have a look at all the article in picture and big wall of text form before reading anything and I massively have the horn.


literally cant wait to read it. tyvm


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 10, 2012, 10:58:30 PM
scrolled down to have a look at all the article in picture and big wall of text form before reading anything and I massively have the horn.


literally cant wait to read it. tyvm

Carlsberg don't do endorsements...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 11, 2012, 12:45:10 AM
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8700

The final round of the London Chess Classic brought to an end a tournament that will go down I am sure as being one for the ages. Some incredible chess was on display over the past none days and if it wasn't quite as dramatic today, the defensive skills were no less prevalent.

In tournaments over a week or so, you tend to find a particular opening cropping up again and again. This time, there have been a few games where the Ruy Lopez has featured and today there were three of them.

The Lopez starts:

1.e4  e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.Bb5

and the game can continue in a number of ways, with 3...a6 the most common and 3...Nf6 Kramnik's favoured Berlin Variation.

Aronian v Polgar saw one of the sharpest variations where Black played a line devised by and named after a man we have seen in our player profiles: Frank Marshall. He was a swashbuckler and the variation is a fitting reminder. Aronian coped well and they were the first to finish with a draw.

McShane had a final flurry with an exchange sacrifice (this means when you give up a rook for either a bishop or a knight) against Nakamura and made a rotten mistake to bring a very disappointing tournament to a close. The American claimed third place.

Adams v Kramnik has two players fighting for second, with Kramnik still in with a shout for first, if he could win and the Norwegian only draw. Kramnik's trusty Berlin was on display and Adams's attempt to put some life in the position didn't really work. They agreed a draw and I don't see either player felt they were in danger at any stage.

This meant Carlsen was the winner, but he didn't just shake hands with Anand and go off to celebrate. No sir. He fancied a win. Try as he might, Carlsen couldn't get enough from the position to get past Anand's defence so he had to make do with a draw.

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/london/lcc-tab09a.gif)

The modern game is incredibly intense but it is wonderful to see a player like Carlsen come along and outplay the best in the world in level endgames. It is a great advert to us all that you don't need to agree a draw just because the pieces are level. Play on, says Magnus, and let the other guy prove he can defend.

It's been a pleasure doing the summaries. I hope you've enjoyed following the action.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Honeybadger on December 11, 2012, 01:17:06 AM
Tal, thanks so much for doing this. I have been enthralled every day.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 12, 2012, 08:49:16 AM
Something completely different this morning.

It always interests me when poker players during a hand touch their 'phone. It might be to turn their music off, it might be to reject an incoming call, it is almost exclusively done in good faith. However, I do wonder whether, if I got into a big pot with them, knowing I was drawing dead, and they touched their screen, I could call the floor and ask for their hand to be declared dead.

We must all have thought about it, if only for a fleeting second. Most of us have the good grace to treat the game as a game and, unless it were for more money that we probably should be playing for, there's generally something there in the back of the heart stopping us from being a social pariah.

Sometimes though it is taken out of our hands and, say the TD walked past and saw the villain fiddling with his iPhone like Will.i.am when the camera is averted. He might call the rule without your enquiry; even against your wishes.

The same applies in chess. If your 'phone goes off during a game, you lose. That's it. All mobiles must be switched off when playing and there is a rule of strict liability. If it happens in a tournament, you are left with very little leeway and there is a fabulous story of Nigel Short turning up slightly late to a tournament, shaking his opponent's hand, writing his name on his score sheet, his 'phone going off and him writing 1-0 on the score sheet without barely a lift of his pen, leaving the playing hall without even taking his coat off!

On Monday, I played a league match against a stronger opponent (by about 200 rating points). The game was a wild and dangerous variation of the Dutch defence (1.d4 f5) and, about two hours into the game, he had a text alert. He went bright red. He held his hand out and said "I am so sorry", sighed and added "well that's it". I quietly said "Just turn it off" and he couldn't believe it. Against a stronger opponent, sadly, a lot of people claim the game there and it is a damning indictment on the state of league chess IMO.

There is no money at stake; no grand prize resting on the result. I play because I want a game. I don't want to lose and I'll try my damnedest to blast everyone off the board given half a chance, but it is over the board, not round it.

I ended up getting an advantage but the endgame was horribly difficult to win, so I accepted a draw after 2½ hours of play, rather than adjourning and completing the game in a couple of weeks. It was all rather odd and there are plenty of people in our league who would have claimed the game, but on this occasion, it didn't feel right to me.

Should we choose which rules we follow?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 12, 2012, 09:43:37 AM
Tal, thanks so much for doing this. I have been enthralled every day.

Thank you, Honeybadger.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on December 12, 2012, 11:07:34 AM
Should we choose which rules we follow?

Choose your own, as you did. 

;hattip;


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: TightEnd on December 12, 2012, 11:21:33 AM
Mr Tal

I have learnt and played a lot

(as black)

RuyLopez

Sicilian-najdorf-schvennigen - 3 versions (spelling?)

French, Caro Kann


although at my level I am soon out of prep as my opponents can do random stuff, early!

Which set of defenses are the most common that I should be genning up on next?



As white, players tend to be e4 or d4 players?

I have been exclusively e4 but am going to learn up d4 stuff next








Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on December 12, 2012, 11:27:13 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_Defence,_Dragon_Variation

One not to be omitted from your repertoire if you're playing Sicilian.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: TightEnd on December 12, 2012, 11:36:44 AM
yup, I should have included that

Fianchettoed bishops etc


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 12, 2012, 12:08:20 PM
You need to be aware of the variations that your opponent can play but you only need to pick one for yourself.

So, by all means have an awareness if you play 1.e4 of the different sorts of Sicilians, but when you are black, playing against 1.e4, you can pick the sort of variation that suits you - Dragon is aggressive, Scheveningen is a little more patient.

FWIW, my advice would be to focus only a small amount on the specific moves. Instead, it is the themes and ideas that run through the openings that matter. In Sicilians, as White, you often want to get d4 in and open the position up for your bishops. Black has to counter that in different ways: by keeping the position solid, by countering on the kingside, by defending d4 heavily...etc.

Against 1.e4, the black responses are:

1...e5 (which could lead to a Lopez if you play that or a Petroff)
1...c5 (Sicilian)
1...d5 (Scandinavian)
1...d6 (Pirc - pronounced peertz)
1...Nf6 (Alekhine)
1...e6 (French)
1...c6 (Caro-Kann)

There can be others and you can already see how much there is to learn.

The big three are 1...e5, 1...c5 and 1...e6. Just have an awareness of the others.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: TightEnd on December 12, 2012, 12:13:54 PM
thank you

why have the "Indian" defences become so unfashionable? was theory worked out to show they were sub-optimal?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 12, 2012, 12:32:39 PM
thank you

why have the "Indian" defences become so unfashionable? was theory worked out to show they were sub-optimal?

It is just a fashion thing. Whatever the top people are playing, that filters down. It's the reason so many pub footballers have beer bellies and £90 Nike boots.

It isn't because they have been solved or anything like that. Someone will come along and play a Queen's Indian and everyone will be playing it. The Catalan was completely unpopular a few years ago but it frequently used now in Super-GM circles.

Nakamura plays the King's Indian a fair bit, although a lot of others prefer not to play it. Polgar plays the Queen's Indian every now and then.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 16, 2012, 04:27:57 PM
One of the stand-out games from the London Chess Classic was Carlsen's win against Polgar, in which the Norwegian took apart the Hedgehog. The Hedgehog is an odd little opening, designed to encourage the opponent on and play on the counter.

Some very strong players have advocated it over the years - most famous of these is Aron Nimzowitsch - and it is far from refuted as an opening; just not à la mode.

Here is a detailed analysis of the Carlsen-Polgar game that I hope you will find instructive.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8707

The Hedgehog is explored as well and there is also some chess satire (I know...), with a game a player devised for a joke when Nimzowitsch was advocating this opening, against a notional fictional player "Systemsson". All a bit silly really.

(http://www.mrwallpaper.com/wallpapers/Hedgehog.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 17, 2012, 09:57:36 AM
(http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/rbs/lowres/rbsn71l.jpg)

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSTA76wfFMYmzHqkjJjO5QEg4HWCChGhYrzg8YKqFzTb00gxX-h)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: titaniumbean on December 17, 2012, 05:06:10 PM
smoooth moooooooove rotflmfao


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 20, 2012, 08:17:10 AM
There at loads of chess DVDs now and they will likely - if they haven't already - overtake the number of books on sale. One prolific author of these DVDs is Danny King, who we saw commentate on the London Chess Classic.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8715

Above is a teaser and a few other instructional titbits about his new 'Power Play' release. There is also his latest What Happens Next? Interactive quiz.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 20, 2012, 10:24:21 PM
(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/mindsports11.jpg)

Highlights of the blindfold competitions in the World Mind Sports Games for you:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8718

It is incredible what these guys are able to "see". It is also forgivable when they forget something or when they miss a clever trick. Above are some neat examples.

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/mindsports18.jpg)

Aronian took the gold - he is a strong blindfold player, even if his OTB (over the board) form has been indifferent of late.

Nakamura with his clarity of calculation (probably the best bullet chess (<2min) player in the world) is always a danger and took silver.

Azeri GM Shak Mamedyarov was third.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 21, 2012, 08:16:11 AM
To illustrate my point, have a look at this position between Mamedyarov and Aronian (eventual third v eventual first). This was a crucial game for both players and here is the position after Aronian has played 20...Rf4 (in notation, we put three dots after the move number to denote it having been Black's move):

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/mindsports16.jpg)

This is a tough position to assess. White has the more active pieces but Black has a bishop pair (which generally work better together than bishop and knight) and the threat of Rxh4+.

Mamedyarov likely looked at a number of possibilities here andthese might have included looking after the h-pawn. He can't play 21.Nf3 because the bishop can take that and then the rook can capture the h-pawn. I suspect - although with these chaps it is always difficult to speculate - that Mamedyarov thought his bishop was on e6 or had calculated a few variations where he played Be6 followed by Nf7+ and had forgotten when he tried to recall the board position to move the bishop back.

Whatever his reason, he now played 21.Rc4, thereby preventing Rxh4. Not, however, preventing Rxc4!

Oops...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 23, 2012, 12:09:40 PM
We are a week on from the BBC Sports Personality of the Year. 60million possibles and one mod-shaped winner. Who won the equivalent poll in India? 1.2billion possibles.

Sachin Tendulkar, right? The guy is worshipped like a god. Nope.

Dravid retired so he might have got the nod. Nope.

Ah then the World Cup winning captain, M S Dhoni must have...no?

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8720

Bet Chess Thread in India gets more than 8k views :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 23, 2012, 12:42:30 PM
(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/averbakh04.jpg)

A lot was spoken about in the London Chess Classic regarding the ability of Carlsen and Kramnik in endgames. They and many of us owe something to the work of the oldest living grandmaster: Yuri Averbach

Here is a short piece about this nonagenarian and the tournament he has been a guest of, with a group of veterans playing a group of young and up-and-coming ladies:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8716


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on December 23, 2012, 05:25:48 PM
We are a week on from the BBC Sports Personality of the Year. 60million possibles and one mod-shaped winner. Who won the equivalent poll in India? 1.2billion possibles.

Sachin Tendulkar, right? The guy is worshipped like a god. Nope.

Dravid retired so he might have got the nod. Nope.

Ah then the World Cup winning captain, M S Dhoni must have...no?

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8720

Bet Chess Thread in India gets more than 8k views :)

Incredible really.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 23, 2012, 07:10:54 PM
It is, Baron, yes. It shows just how popular chess is in India.


As for Mr Aberbakh, here's his wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Averbakh

He produced a tremendous series of books on the endgame that is vastly underrated today called Comprehensive Chess Endings. It came in different volumes, relating to the different types of endgames you get (depending on which pieces are left).

(http://www.chessvibes.com/sites/default/files/images/players/Averbakh_Saltsjobaden_1952.jpg)

(http://www.chessvibes.com/sites/default/files/images/averbakh_books.jpg)

He also devised one of my very favourite openings, which is a response to the King's Indian Defence. It looks flashy and aggressive but the idea is quite the opposite; Black wants to attack down the Kingside, so White blocks it up with pawns and thereby prevents Black from getting the counterplay he wants.

(http://www.chessvideos.tv/chess-opening-database/static/d4-Nf6-c4-g6-Nc3-Bg7-e4-d6-Bg5.gif)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on December 24, 2012, 01:08:04 AM
What's most incredible is that chess isn't a sport!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 24, 2012, 08:33:47 AM
What's most incredible is that chess isn't a sport!

It is in some countries, I believe.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 24, 2012, 09:08:08 AM
Mikhail Botvinnik was World Champion for a long time, although, like Muhammed Ali, he lost and regained his crown a few times in between.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Botvinnik

Here are some of his brilliancies (double and treble spring onions, if you please...):

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=7496

(Solutions are played out on the linked page at the bottom)

He is the man who lost his title to Tal in 1960 only to win it back the following year. He was the darling of the Soviets; a highly regarded Comrade.

He was World Champ from 1948-57, 58-60 and 61-63.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Botvinnik_1936.jpg/340px-Botvinnik_1936.jpg)

Whereas Petrosian and Rubenstein were predominantly positional players and Tal and Spassky predominantly tactical players, Botvinnik was right in the middle. He looked to give both sides a chance and created unclear positions, expecting to outplay his uncomfortable opponent.

Perhaps his greatest achievement was coaching a young Karpov, then a young Kasparov and then a young Kramnik, each of whom would become World Champion.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 25, 2012, 10:39:10 AM
Merry Christmas to all Chess Threadites (working title)

May all your speculative attacks come off, your wriggling defenses squirm you out of trouble and your blunders be missed by your opponent.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on December 27, 2012, 01:43:15 PM
Cant wait for 2013 the candidates tourney and the WC match.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 27, 2012, 08:13:07 PM
Absolutely, Baron. Whatever it brings!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 27, 2012, 08:23:08 PM
I'm going to try something I haven't done in a while: something really technical. Bear with me.

King and pawn endgames look simple but there would not be books on them if that were true.

Take an empty board and put the villain King somehere in the middle. Then take your King and put him two squares back. If it is your move, you can't go forwards so it is back and concede ground or sideways and let the villain come in diagonally and attack whichever side you have left unattended.

So, you want to get into this two-squares-apart position when it is the other guy's move next and you can get an advantage. This is called getting the OPPOSITION.

As you progress, you turn the enemy king around and this can often lead to winning material.

The first example in the link below is a really nice example of the opposition:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8733.

Start at move 86 and play through the position. The notes should help, too.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: TightEnd on December 27, 2012, 08:25:00 PM
I had rook and king v king recently after 55 moves or so

The b%£R%£ offered me a draw

Took me another 45 moves to corner the bugger and mate him

A small step for the Tal's of this world, but a big one for me

My rating (not sure its ELO, but on the site I play) is up 200 points in two months...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 27, 2012, 08:33:19 PM
I had rook and king v king recently after 55 moves or so

The b%£R%£ offered me a draw

Took me another 45 moves to corner the bugger and mate him

A small step for the Tal's of this world, but a big one for me

My rating (not sure its ELO, but on the site I play) is up 200 points in two months...

Superb!

This is relevant to my post above!

The way to mate with king and rook v king is firstly to set up an electric fence with the rook (if the enemy king is on e5, put your rook on a4 and he can't get past the fifth rank.

Then, get your king on the other side of the fence a knight's move away. Eventually, the enemy king will give you the opposition (ie 2 squares away).

Then you check him by moving the rook/fence one rank back. King has to move backwards.

Move your king up to a Knight's move away and keep going.

If you need to waste a move for any reason, move your rook along the fence either one square or the whole width of the board (whichever is further from the enemy king).

Eventually, you get the enemy king on the back rank and when you move the fence back the final time, it is to electrocute his majesty...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on December 27, 2012, 08:35:53 PM
I'm going to try something I haven't done in a while: something really technical. Bear with me.

King and pawn endgames look simple but there would not be books on them if that were true.

Take an empty board and put the villain King somehere in the middle. Then take your King and put him two squares back. If it is your move, you can't go forwards so it is back and concede ground or sideways and let the villain come in diagonally and attack whichever side you have left unattended.

So, you want to get into this two-squares-apart position when it is the other guy's move next and you can get an advantage. This is called getting the OPPOSITION.

As you progress, you turn the enemy king around and this can often lead to winning material.

The first example in the link below is a really nice example of the opposition:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8733.

Start at move 86 and play through the position. The notes should help, too.

Sigh.

Just clicked the forward arrow 86 times before realising you can just click the numbers.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: TightEnd on December 27, 2012, 08:36:18 PM
Exactly

I drove him back one rank at a time with the rook well away from the action but fencing him in, manoeuvring him into a quarter of the board, then an eighth of the board...

Needs precision though, the stalemate opportunities were present near the end


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 27, 2012, 08:38:15 PM
Exactly

I drove him back one rank at a time with the rook well away from the action but fencing him in, manoeuvring him into a quarter of the board, then an eighth of the board...

Needs precision though, the stalemate opportunities were present near the end

Just keep the rook miles out of the way and the king a knight move away along the fence and it is as easy as pie. No stalemates from there as long as you keep the rook out of touching distance.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 27, 2012, 08:38:54 PM
I'm going to try something I haven't done in a while: something really technical. Bear with me.

King and pawn endgames look simple but there would not be books on them if that were true.

Take an empty board and put the villain King somehere in the middle. Then take your King and put him two squares back. If it is your move, you can't go forwards so it is back and concede ground or sideways and let the villain come in diagonally and attack whichever side you have left unattended.

So, you want to get into this two-squares-apart position when it is the other guy's move next and you can get an advantage. This is called getting the OPPOSITION.

As you progress, you turn the enemy king around and this can often lead to winning material.

The first example in the link below is a really nice example of the opposition:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8733.

Start at move 86 and play through the position. The notes should help, too.

Sigh.

Just clicked the forward arrow 86 times before realising you can just click the numbers.



 ;flushy;


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 28, 2012, 01:08:16 PM
I’ve had a bit of time today to answer a question RedDog posed me a couple of weeks ago (sorry for the delay, sir). This will be honeybadgeresque, albeit with less elegance and much less intellectual content.

The subject is luck in chess. There is more than you might immediately think. As with any tournament, you can be lucky because an opponent is late or a queer result happens on another board that directly affects your chances of winning the tournament, or someone’s ‘phone goes off and you win by default, or your opponent runs out of time when he was just about to checkmate you. For every one of these, rightly or wrongly, you would describe yourself as having been “lucky”.

But what about an individual game?

The first thing is where playing styles fit. Imagine a graph with an x- and y-axis. A dot on the x-axis but all the way along is someone who is very tactical and looks for sharp combinations, sacrifices everything he can and prefers a sledgehammer to a precision instrument every day of the week. A dot on the y-axis but all the way up is a positional player, who understands the power of the pieces in a more long-term sense, as they look to create holes in the opponent’s position, swap off their bad bishop for the villain’s good one and create little edges that add up when the endgame comes.

Say I’m a really aggressive, tactical player. If I play someone whose strength is tactics, but they aren’t quite as good as me, I’ll do very well against them over a long period, perhaps (to be crude) because I can see one move further than they. If the villain is instead as strong in positional sense, their rating might not be as high as mine, but I will leave weaknesses in my position which they will naturally exploit and it could be much more likely that they will get a result against me. The luck is both in us being drawn to play each other (say we were the second best players in our respective teams or say we had the same number of points in a tournament and were drawn against each other) and in the match/mismatch of our playing styles. To get better as a player, you need to have ability in both, but even the greats aren’t (100,100); everybody is more one than the other.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 28, 2012, 01:09:18 PM
You also have opening theory. Say you learn the first ten moves of an opening and, in doing so, you know a couple of little traps the opposition can fall into, if they play what looks objectively to be a perfectly reasonable move. Your opponent might be twice as good as you, but they happen on this one occasion not to know about this trap, fall into it and you get a win that next to no one else of your level would have been able to achieve.

Then comes the game itself. I’m going to thrown in some numbers just to make it easier to explain; it isn’t intended to be accurate. Imagine in ten years’ time that someone has built a computer that has “solved” chess; it has the perfect answer against every move and is both completely unbeatable and completely unexploitable. The top human player might well be able to play the best move on the board 95% of the time, but there is still a 5% edge to the computer, which is, in practice, two moves in a 40 move game. These moves might not be blunders, but they will be sub-optimal and might be enough. Move down the rankings to a standard Grandmaster and he will find the right move 85% of the time and again the 10% he gives to the world number 1 might not be enough for him to lose the game, as the move might just be second-best and fine. Sometimes, the 5% of the world number 1 will be enough for the GM to win and that can of course happen. He will be lucky to be the player who is sitting opposite the world number 1 when it happens to be the one time in a however many that the mistake is made AND that it is sufficiently serious to lead to defeat AND that the GM makes moves of high enough quality to seal the deal. If they play 10 times, for the sake of argument, 6 are wins by the world number 1, 3 are draws and 1 is a win for the underdog.

Move down the rankings again to my level (it’s a long way down, but bear with me!). I might make the perfect move (let’s be generous) 50% of the time and, of the other 50%, the majority are still reasonable moves. If I play an opponent of equal strength, all results are possible. They must be. Crudely, every other touch of a piece on the board is a sub-optimal move! The luck is again where these “mistakes” fall and more importantly whether they can – and are – capitalised on. It’s all well and good my opponent making a mistake. I have to play the right move back or the moment might have passed. We’ve all seen the “white to play and mate in 2 moves” problems. They are a lot easier when you know that there is a checkmate there. Over the board, you don’t know that.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 28, 2012, 01:12:59 PM
In 1999, I played in the British Under 15 Championships. I had been doing well and was paired to play someone who I knew well and that I had been on a higher board than for Warwickshire juniors for some time. She was a decent player but rated slightly below me. Although it wasn’t a knock-out, the winner of this game would be British Champion and would be invited to join the official England Squad for the next three years (which neither of us had been in before, although we had both played a couple of games when we were 11 – junior squad is Under 12 - Under 18) and play in the team travelling to, if memory serves, Estonia. I reached a position after a couple of hours that was favourable and I had a decision to make as to whether I went full throttle for the king or prepared the attack for one more move. I spent an age deciding and couldn’t make my mind up: was the attack premature and setting it up best? Or was another move just wasting time and allowing my opponent time to regroup? I took a deep breath and went for the attack. I lost. It took a long time to recover from that day and it was without doubt my worst experience over the board. Tears were shed. The other move won the game, the British Under 15 Championship and a place in the England Team, which I had been trying to achieve for four years. Second equal looks good on a CV, but every time I say or send it, I am reminded that I could have won.

Where was the luck in that? I effectively flipped a coin in my head to choose the move, as I couldn’t decide which was right. It was a 50/50 shot, I called Tails and have regretted it ever since. I’m not melodramatic enough to say it has haunted me, because that would be silly. But we all have these situations in life – situations which have very little consequence to our lives objectively – which we remember and recall vividly. My opponent was lucky to win in that sense of the word, although she of course deserved to win and I was the first to say that. But she effectively had no control of her destiny while I was contemplating that move. I decided whether I or she became British Champion. This was Steve Davis missing that cut on the black in 1985, while Dennis Taylor sat in his chair only almost nothing like it.

In poker, I suppose this is analogous to winning flips. Over the course of our lifetime, we’ll win 50% of them (even cambridgealex, deadman and rastafish...eventually), but it is WHEN we win them that can make all the difference. If you win your flip in the first level against a micro-stack in a bowl comp, it barely matters. If you win it heads-up in the November Nine, it might be quite nice. Maths doesn’t care what the situation is; it just sorts out the Ws and Ls into equal piles over time. I can’t even imagine how many flips Jerry Yang, Darvin Moon or Jamie Gold had to win over 8 days of solid poker. Fast forward a few years and, like all poker players, no matter how much we all mock those who say it...those six words are uttered to anyone who’ll listen...

Why can’t I win a race?!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 28, 2012, 04:35:31 PM
If long things aren't your cup of char, here's a visual aid for our rook and king mate:

(http://www.chesscorner.com/tutorial/basic/r_k_mate/r-mate1.gif)

See how the rook has set up the electric fence along the 7th rank? Thou shall not pass.

If it's White to move, slide the king one square to the right and he is a knight's move away, on the other side of the fence. Then, if the king goes into the corner, we follow him again and he has to come back. Then we deliver checkmate by moving the fence to the 8th. BUZZZZZZ!

If it is Black to move, he might move to our left. That being the case, as he's a knight's move from us, we need to waste a move, so move the rook one square along the 7th and Black has either to move opposite our king (and we checkmate) or the other way and we follow as explained above.

One point re Tighty's post: if a game continues for a spell of 50 moves where nothing is taken, the game is drawn. 45 is a sweat!!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: RED-DOG on December 28, 2012, 05:51:14 PM
Thanks for those examples of jammy chess Mr Tal. Very informative and entertaining.

I read every post in this thread. Most of it is beyond my meagre mental capacity, but even if I don't understand the message, I enjoy the eloquence of it's delivery.

My favourite story so far is:

Nigel Short turning up slightly late to a tournament, shaking his opponent's hand, writing his name on his score sheet, his 'phone going off and him writing 1-0 on the score sheet without barely a lift of his pen, leaving the playing hall without even taking his coat off!   

What a wonderful image that conjures up, and what a great example of Mr Short's integrity. 


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on December 28, 2012, 05:57:37 PM
What's most incredible is that chess isn't a sport!

It is in some countries, I believe.

They can call it a fruit if they want.  It still isn't ;)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on December 28, 2012, 08:17:20 PM
I’ve had a bit of time today to answer a question RedDog posed me a couple of weeks ago (sorry for the delay, sir). This will be honeybadgeresque, albeit with less elegance and much less intellectual content.

The subject is luck in chess. There is more than you might immediately think. As with any tournament, you can be lucky because an opponent is late or a queer result happens on another board that directly affects your chances of winning the tournament, or someone’s ‘phone goes off and you win by default, or your opponent runs out of time when he was just about to checkmate you. For every one of these, rightly or wrongly, you would describe yourself as having been “lucky”.

But what about an individual game?

The first thing is where playing styles fit. Imagine a graph with an x- and y-axis. A dot on the x-axis but all the way along is someone who is very tactical and looks for sharp combinations, sacrifices everything he can and prefers a sledgehammer to a precision instrument every day of the week. A dot on the y-axis but all the way up is a positional player, who understands the power of the pieces in a more long-term sense, as they look to create holes in the opponent’s position, swap off their bad bishop for the villain’s good one and create little edges that add up when the endgame comes.

Say I’m a really aggressive, tactical player. If I play someone whose strength is tactics, but they aren’t quite as good as me, I’ll do very well against them over a long period, perhaps (to be crude) because I can see one move further than they. If the villain is instead as strong in positional sense, their rating might not be as high as mine, but I will leave weaknesses in my position which they will naturally exploit and it could be much more likely that they will get a result against me. The luck is both in us being drawn to play each other (say we were the second best players in our respective teams or say we had the same number of points in a tournament and were drawn against each other) and in the match/mismatch of our playing styles. To get better as a player, you need to have ability in both, but even the greats aren’t (100,100); everybody is more one than the other.

Would you say Carlsen is more positional? Kasparov more tactical? Although obv both are great at both.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 28, 2012, 09:57:49 PM
Carlsen is inherently positional.

Kasparov was a little less defined but on balance more tactical than positional. He made sacrifices to create fatal, longterm weaknesses in an opponent's position, so that kind of thing is hard to pin down.

All of the top players are brilliant at both sides of the game tho. They are complete players. It is more a question of style. Tal if faced with a tough position or a quiet won endgame with Knight against Bad Bishop would choose the endgame 100% of the time.

Rubenstein, Fischer and Carlsen have all played devastating and incredible combinations.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 30, 2012, 02:55:34 PM
Here's a Rubinstein game where you would be forgiven for thinking it was Tal playing.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1119679

It was a wonderful finish.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 30, 2012, 03:07:15 PM
Thanks for those examples of jammy chess Mr Tal. Very informative and entertaining.

I read every post in this thread. Most of it is beyond my meagre mental capacity, but even if I don't understand the message, I enjoy the eloquence of it's delivery.

My favourite story so far is:

Nigel Short turning up slightly late to a tournament, shaking his opponent's hand, writing his name on his score sheet, his 'phone going off and him writing 1-0 on the score sheet without barely a lift of his pen, leaving the playing hall without even taking his coat off!   

What a wonderful image that conjures up, and what a great example of Mr Short's integrity. 

Nigel is a funny old sort. He specialises in out-of-fashion openings (the sort that would have been played in Victorian times) and plays the very well. It is a way of getting people out of their comfort zone, as most players work on keeping up to speed on the latest developments and the à la mode lines.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on December 31, 2012, 01:53:53 PM
http://www.hastingschess.com/?page_id=1206

Hastings International Chess Congress which opens on Friday 28th December 2012 and continues until 6th January 2013.
they got Live Commentary but not sure what time they start


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 31, 2012, 02:01:07 PM
Good reminder Curnow, thank you.

It is a tournament rich in history and, although the Premier isn't as strong as it once was, it still packs a sizeable punch.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on December 31, 2012, 03:16:38 PM
http://www.hastingschess.com/?page_id=1206

Hastings International Chess Congress which opens on Friday 28th December 2012 and continues until 6th January 2013.
they got Live Commentary but not sure what time they start

Was thinking about playing the weekend tournament again but then remembered I'm not very good.

Also considered providing some colour commentary - but it's raining and doesn't look like it's going to stop - and it's quite a long walk to the venue - so that's out.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 31, 2012, 05:11:01 PM
Fair enough Jon. If you want to get us some photos in better weather in the next few days, feel free ;)

The above link from curnow is the website for the tournament. There are brief reviews of each of the three rounds so far and these are written by man some of you (particularly the more experienced poker players) may know: Stewart Rueben. He's one of the old British poker players and has written a few books on the game.

Just as an FYI - and Jon will likely know this - there is a player in the main tourney with the same name as me. He's a Grandmaster no less. He isn't me tho.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on December 31, 2012, 07:35:24 PM
Here's Stewart Reuben

(http://www.gibraltarchesscongress.com/gib2009/media/photos/reuben2002.jpg)

Seen him before anywhere?

(http://www.pokercoach.us/PLCVR.gif)



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 02, 2013, 09:38:47 AM
Last week, the North American Open took place...

...at Bally's in Vegas. Report and pictures here:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8745

You'll recognise one of the faces from his poker exploits (and no it's not Howard Lederer)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 02, 2013, 05:50:45 PM
...and here's the latest from Hastings:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8747

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/jones01.jpg)

We saw Gawain Jones in the London Chess Classic. He's currently in second place.

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/duff01.jpg)

Ezra Duff beat Grandmaster Mark Hebden in this comp and looks set to add a fair few rating points this week to his rating.

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/upham02.jpg)

This is John Upham, who apparently took the above snaps.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on January 02, 2013, 05:55:50 PM
Who took the snap of John Upham?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 02, 2013, 06:07:05 PM
Who took the snap of John Upham?

Apparently his camera is that good.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on January 02, 2013, 06:12:50 PM
Who took the snap of John Upham?

Apparently his camera is that good.

:D

Bet he plays simultaneous chess against himself...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 02, 2013, 06:27:36 PM
Who took the snap of John Upham?

Apparently his camera is that good.

:D

Bet he plays simultaneous chess against himself...

He's the Chuck Norris of photography


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on January 03, 2013, 05:03:19 PM
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV1bpMamCtY
dont know if this has been posted here before



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 03, 2013, 08:59:02 PM
Heard it here first: Kasparov doesn't wash his hands.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 03, 2013, 09:03:07 PM
From the famous Footlights Revue (where the other three people in it are Fry&Laurie and Emma Thompson). You'll likely recognise these two as well:

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu3OG9qhvhM


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 04, 2013, 01:56:42 PM
It's reasonably fair to say this is one of the big events in the chess calendar: Wijk aan Zee. What is now called the Tata Steel tournament has been a fixture since the 1930s and boasts some of the strongest fields around. Here is a preview:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8750

In the main tournament, there are more of the so-called "weaker" players than you see in a lot of comps because the field is slightly larger. This gives an advantage to those players who don't get many wins against the top few but consistently beat the also-rans.

Aronian is the classic example of this and that is why he does well here (last year's champ).

Magnus Carlsen will be looking to overturn his second place finish of 2012 and few would back against him being in contention going into the last game.

Fabiano Caruana and Hikaru Nakamura's aggressive styles could sprung a few Ws and are again ones to keep an eye out for.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 04, 2013, 08:03:46 PM
By way of an amuse bouche for the Wijk aan Zee tournament, here are my two favourite games from last year's comp.

Firstly, Carlsen beats the naturally aggressive and tactically astute Topalov by playing like the chess equivalent of Benny Spindler in a hurry. I think Topalov missed a lot of the chances to equalise purely because of having been caught off-guard. The report describes Carlsen as having played like Tal and it's hard to disagree:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=7874

Secondly - and even better - the winner was Aronian and he played this absolute gem of a game. He built a small edge as Black against young Dutch GM Anish Giri and took no risks in nursing it into a strong position.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=7868

Aronian reached this position...

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2012/wijk/tatachess12-85.jpg)

...and played an absolutely spell-binding combination to win the game.

Spring onions galore!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on January 05, 2013, 02:28:12 PM
Lol @ Aronian playing through that game on the board for the press.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 05, 2013, 02:33:59 PM
Lol @ Aronian playing through that game on the board for the press.

He's a bit of a ledge


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: pokerfan on January 05, 2013, 02:52:52 PM
I read somewhere Carlsen is the highest ranked Chess player ever.
How does the system work ? Wouldn't have thought this was possible at his age.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 05, 2013, 02:56:06 PM
FIDE ratings are part of the ELO system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on January 05, 2013, 05:00:30 PM
Lol @ Aronian playing through that game on the board for the press.

He's a bit of a ledge

He's just so chilled. 'Oh yeah then I did this move. Any questions?' LOL!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 07, 2013, 08:22:14 AM
A Bulgarian player has been accused of cheating after his most recent performances have led to a rapid spike in his improvement. His rating graph looks like this:

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/ivanov03.gif)

He has been at say top county player standard and is suddenly and inexplicably turning over grandmasters. This doesn't really happen often unless it's a ten year old.

Here's a more detailed explanation:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8751


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 07, 2013, 08:53:55 AM
I read somewhere Carlsen is the highest ranked Chess player ever.
How does the system work ? Wouldn't have thought this was possible at his age.

Poker fan, I'm sorry I wasn't able to answer your question in more detail. Was at DTD on Saturday (not on Sunday tho...).

Carlsen has been a grandmaster since he was 13 so it's not all that short a time for him to rise to world number 1. By his age, Bobby Fischer was right up there, too.

The overall standard of an elite chess player improved over time because there is more assumed knowledge; opening theory now is incredibly detailed and there are vast resources available. None of this was possible fifty years ago, say.

That he has overtaken Kasparov's record rating is an enormous achievement nevertheless.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: smashedagain on January 07, 2013, 11:55:18 AM
Amuse bouche, love em. Just spent  an hour reading about cheats. Reminded me very much about the guy who cheated at poker by getting signals from his mate who was blogging.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 07, 2013, 12:04:18 PM
Amuse bouche, love em. Just spent  an hour reading about cheats. Reminded me very much about the guy who cheated at poker by getting signals from his mate who was blogging.

I find it incredible that in even quite high-rated tournaments in the US you're allowed to wear headphones.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: smashedagain on January 07, 2013, 01:50:53 PM
Amuse bouche, love em. Just spent  an hour reading about cheats. Reminded me very much about the guy who cheated at poker by getting signals from his mate who was blogging.

I find it incredible that in even quite high-rated tournaments in the US you're allowed to wear headphones.
cheating goes on in all walks of life and seems to be a serious issue. I just read an article about the Seoul 100m finals. All but 2 of the finalists have failed drugs tests.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 07, 2013, 02:08:45 PM
Amuse bouche, love em. Just spent  an hour reading about cheats. Reminded me very much about the guy who cheated at poker by getting signals from his mate who was blogging.

I find it incredible that in even quite high-rated tournaments in the US you're allowed to wear headphones.
cheating goes on in all walks of life and seems to be a serious issue. I just read an article about the Seoul 100m finals. All but 2 of the finalists have failed drugs tests.

Yep. If one of the other two is Carl Lewis, he has always strenuously denied using them, but he seems never to have been able to shake the rumours off.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: smashedagain on January 07, 2013, 02:12:19 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/olympics/article-2182781/London-Olympics-2012-Recalling-100m-mens-final-Seoul--dirtiest-race-history.html


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 07, 2013, 08:08:22 PM
The Hastings Masters was won by Gawain Jones by half a point. Here is a final report and a nice endgame he played (rook and pawn endgames are the hardest to play):

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8756

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/jones02.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on January 07, 2013, 08:24:36 PM
Amuse bouche, love em. Just spent  an hour reading about cheats. Reminded me very much about the guy who cheated at poker by getting signals from his mate who was blogging.

I find it incredible that in even quite high-rated tournaments in the US you're allowed to wear headphones.
cheating goes on in all walks of life and seems to be a serious issue. I just read an article about the Seoul 100m finals. All but 2 of the finalists have failed drugs tests.

Yep. If one of the other two is Carl Lewis, he has always strenuously denied using them, but he seems never to have been able to shake the rumours off.

He failed a test the same year as this race!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on January 07, 2013, 08:30:27 PM
Think I need to stop trying to finish end games in about 5 moves!!

Can't believe how long that took to grind out. Taught me a fair bit watching that.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 07, 2013, 11:07:05 PM
Think I need to stop trying to finish end games in about 5 moves!!

Can't believe how long that took to grind out. Taught me a fair bit watching that.


Let me give you a rough idea of how complicated the endgames are if there is only one pawn and one set of rooks on the board:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rook_and_pawn_versus_rook_endgame

If you're taking anthing out of this link above, I'd suggest the Philidor position and the Lucena position. Get those locked down and you will save half a point a lot of the time in endgames (either winning drawn games or drawing lost ones) against the sort of players you'll play online.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 07, 2013, 11:12:24 PM
This is the Lucena position, which leads to a win:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucena_position


And this is the Philidor position, which you should be looking to get to if you want to draw:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philidor_position


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 07, 2013, 11:32:58 PM
A quick video on the Lucena position:

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WAZfl6ymHc


And a quick video on the Philidor position:

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmHiYBylePA


All seems simple now, right?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 08, 2013, 07:20:53 PM
Here's Capablanca playing a simultaneous exhibition in Moscow in 1913:

(http://www.chessville.com/images/people/Capablanca/CapablancaSimul_Moscow1913_fJRC3WCCC.jpg)

And here he is playing Alekhine:

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2011/winter/capablanca05-ew.jpg)

What a difference a hundred years make.
 




Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on January 08, 2013, 07:46:43 PM
A quick video on the Lucena position:


And a quick video on the Philidor position:


All seems simple now, right?


Lucena seems a lot simpler than Philador. Maybe it was the way he described them. Seemed to be a lot more random flicking pieces about on the Philador description.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 08, 2013, 07:50:45 PM
A quick video on the Lucena position:


And a quick video on the Philidor position:


All seems simple now, right?


Lucena seems a lot simpler than Philador. Maybe it was the way he described them. Seemed to be a lot more random flicking pieces about on the Philador description.


Yes he made it look far more complicated than he needed to. The key thing is getting the rook onto the third rank and that stops the opponent from getting his king in front of the pawn. When he moves the lawn to the third rank, you move your rook all the way to the bottom and you can keep checking the king forever or win the pawn and the game is drawn.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 08, 2013, 07:56:09 PM
If the rooks come off, you might want to see these:

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z52BN5uv1L8

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR7MaAF1gNA


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 09, 2013, 08:44:48 PM
Whose chess set is this?

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/moore03.jpg)



Any guesses?




OK. Here's the answer:


(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/moore04.jpg)

And here's a nice story about the man himself, who was a competent and enthusiastic chess player:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8761



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: outragous76 on January 09, 2013, 09:09:03 PM
Anyone watching midsommer murders? Chess themed!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 09, 2013, 09:13:18 PM
Anyone watching midsommer murders? Chess themed!

Er...no.

You know when the dead people's houses are sold? Well, who is buying them? Who moves house and decides to live in a village where someone is killed every week?

Quite a serious plot hole IMO.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: pokerfan on January 09, 2013, 09:18:25 PM
I read somewhere Carlsen is the highest ranked Chess player ever.
How does the system work ? Wouldn't have thought this was possible at his age.

Poker fan, I'm sorry I wasn't able to answer your question in more detail. Was at DTD on Saturday (not on Sunday tho...).

Carlsen has been a grandmaster since he was 13 so it's not all that short a time for him to rise to world number 1. By his age, Bobby Fischer was right up there, too.

The overall standard of an elite chess player improved over time because there is more assumed knowledge; opening theory now is incredibly detailed and there are vast resources available. None of this was possible fifty years ago, say.

That he has overtaken Kasparov's record rating is an enormous achievement nevertheless.

Missed this, tks.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 10, 2013, 08:19:53 AM
A man who is arguably Britain's most colourful chess master was the great Tony Miles. He died in 2001, aged just 46. Here is a neat piece about him and the games of a 22 board blindfold simultaneous exhibition he once gave:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=7662

I had the pleasure of meeting him a few times. He could not have had more time for those who wanted to learn.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 10, 2013, 08:25:51 AM
This is an obituary written by Malcolm Pein (now organiser of the London Chess Classic):

http://www.chess.co.uk/twic/milesmp.html



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 11, 2013, 08:34:57 AM
Three instructive endgame lessons on Chessbase today:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8764

Well worth a flick through (they're games played on JavaScript, so essay to follow - and you can skip to the relevant bits)

Knight against bad bishop is always a good one to recognise.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 11, 2013, 11:31:21 PM
The Tata Steel tournament in Wijk aan Zee kicks off tomorrow and the full round-robin pairings for the main group are here:

http://www.tatasteelchess.com/tournament/schedule/year/2013/group/1

I'm expecting a few draws first up but this should be a tournament where we see plenty of decisive games.

My pick would be Aronian and Carlsen as a 1-2, but we'll have to see how it goes. No betting market AFAIK.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 12, 2013, 12:11:56 PM
...and here's the Chessbase preview:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8769

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/wijk/wijk01.jpg)

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/wijk/wijk02.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: smashedagain on January 12, 2013, 01:25:25 PM
What sort of sponsorship would Tata be putting up and what's the prize money like. What would they be getting out of the sponsorship and what is the link with chess.

Tata steel own the works here in Scunthorpe and bought it from the Dutch firm that took over from British Steel.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 12, 2013, 01:46:10 PM
Last year was a €10k first prize so nothing enormous. There's no entry fee for these players tho.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 12, 2013, 05:15:45 PM
Live chess games:

http://www.tatasteelchess.com/tournament/livegames

It is a really nice presentation with an engine underneath telling you who is winning.

Lots of draws as expected.

A couple of games look dead drawn and another is a technical win.

Karjakin is about to display some neat and precise play to beat Hou Yifan, I predict.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on January 12, 2013, 05:20:58 PM
... What would they be getting out of the sponsorship and what is the link with chess. ...

I don't know anything about this specifically but when I worked at the British Chess Federation it was pretty clear that almost all sponsorship was as a result of the CEO or similar being a chess fan, there was rarely a commercial imperative.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 12, 2013, 05:42:49 PM
Thanks, Jon. Sorry, Smashedagain. I misread your question, but Jon is better-placed to answer anyway :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: smashedagain on January 12, 2013, 10:24:13 PM
... What would they be getting out of the sponsorship and what is the link with chess. ...

I don't know anything about this specifically but when I worked at the British Chess Federation it was pretty clear that almost all sponsorship was as a result of the CEO or similar being a chess fan, there was rarely a commercial imperative.
i did not know if it was linked to the Dutch connection I meantioned or even a connection with India.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 12, 2013, 10:30:30 PM
... What would they be getting out of the sponsorship and what is the link with chess. ...

I don't know anything about this specifically but when I worked at the British Chess Federation it was pretty clear that almost all sponsorship was as a result of the CEO or similar being a chess fan, there was rarely a commercial imperative.
i did not know if it was linked to the Dutch connection I meantioned or even a connection with India.

Chess in India is huge.

This tournament was until recently sponsored by Corus, which Tata has bought. Those aside, not sure of any connection between the company and chess.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 13, 2013, 08:22:37 PM
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8772

All games drawn in Wijk aan Zee and the big one was Carlsen getting out of jail against Aronian.

The link above has the games, with little videos of the players' interviews after their games.


Edit: it now includes Danny King's Play of the Day feature, which today is the Aronian-Carlsen game.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 14, 2013, 09:06:37 PM
Express report today on the chess in Holland:

Carlsen beats van Wely
Anand beats Caruana
Karjakin beats Wang Hao
Everybody else draws.

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/wijk/table-a03.gif)

Link below at time of posting has a few details and videos but it will update over the next few hours to something more substantive:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8775


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 14, 2013, 09:17:02 PM
One of the best-reviewed tournaments in the calendar is the Gibraltar Festival. Here is a much better preview than I could do:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8774

The tournament features some very big names like Ivanchuk, Shirov, Adams and Short, but is often praised for its relaxed and welcoming spirit, with what we would recognise as side events running in parallel with the main comp on one of the most historic islands in Her Majesty's Empire.

STOP PRESS!!!

Chess players in sense of humour shocker!

See the bottom of the linked page for two funnies, including a British Grandmaster who has the same name as me (but isn't me). Simon (aka "The Ginger GM") will be commentating on the event alongside US player Irina Krush.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 15, 2013, 08:47:06 AM
The link above to the report on the latest round of the Wijk aan Zee tournament now has the games, the interviews, some photos, Danny King's game of the day and an annotated version of the Carlsen-van Wely game.

Carlsen ran him over, really, although it won't look like it. Carlsen played a response to van Wely's King's Indian Defence called the Averbakh system (you might remember a couple of weeks ago I mentioned that Yuri Averbakh is the oldest living Grandmaster). Notice how Carlsen creates a weakness on f5 and this is how he wins the game.

The final position might surprise you because Black is level on material and it all looks blocked. However, Carlsen is about to play g4 and you'll see that, although Black is attacking that square twice with his own pawns, his pawn on f5 is pinned - unable to move - by the white bishop. This means White wins a pawn and, as the position will open up and Black has no compensation against a bishop pair, he didn't see any chance of saving the game against the best endgame player in the world.

It's a horrible position for Black but that only becomes apparent the more you play with it. Have a go if you get time. Try to make some progress against a computer. Then reverse the colours and try to beat the computer if you're feeling brave :)

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/wijk/carlsen03.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on January 15, 2013, 08:20:46 PM
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr0J8SPENjM

 Published on 6 Jan 2013

In this video, chess FIDE Master Valeri Lilov is trying to find the truth behind one of the most recent scandals in the world of chess. He investigates all the important facts and evidence about the suspicious 2700 rating performance achieved by a 2200 rated player in a Grandmaster tournament last year.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 15, 2013, 08:24:49 PM
Anand is back!!!

The World Champion delivered one of his very beat games today to beat Lev Aronian with Black.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8776

The finish was reminiscent (Anand said so himself) of one of Rubenstein's most famous wins, against Rotlewi (one of those players - I say this slightly harshly but with an element of fairness - famous for being beaten in a famous game). The games are in the java viewer in the link above.

The openings are different (Anand's is a Semi-Slav (the black pawns on the light squares against 1.d4) whereas Rubenstein played a Tarrasch (pawns on d4, d5, c4 and c5)) but see what happens to Black's bishops, his king's knight and the queen.

An off day for Lev but a game for the textbooks for Vishy.

Anand now shares the lead with Karjakin (who drew today) and Carlsen (who won).



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on January 15, 2013, 08:28:36 PM
Have any 2 recorded professional games ever ran out exactly the same?

Another question occurs to me after this first one:

Are all professional games recorded?

I don't mean on video obviously, just the moves.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 15, 2013, 08:31:26 PM
Thank you for that curnow. I ummed and ahhed about posting this but as it's 70mins long I left it.

But it is fascinating stuff. Really is.

He makes a compelling case, although there is no material evidence of cheating.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 15, 2013, 08:34:16 PM
Have any 2 recorded professional games ever ran out exactly the same?

Another question occurs to me after this first one.

Are all professional games recorded?

I don't mean on video obviously, just the moves.

AFAIK no two complete games (played to checkmate/stalemate) have been recorded as identical. The maths makes it hard for that to happen in any event, although there have been plenty of identical novelty games played (4 move checkmate, for example)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on January 15, 2013, 08:37:00 PM
Have any 2 recorded professional games ever ran out exactly the same?

Another question occurs to me after this first one.

Are all professional games recorded?

I don't mean on video obviously, just the moves.

AFAIK no two complete games (played to checkmate/stalemate) have been recorded as identical. The maths makes it hard for that to happen in any event, although there have been plenty of identical novelty games played (4 move checkmate, for example)

Could that (or indeed has that) ever happen to anybody who's not a complete mushroom?




Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 15, 2013, 08:57:50 PM
Have any 2 recorded professional games ever ran out exactly the same?

Another question occurs to me after this first one.

Are all professional games recorded?

I don't mean on video obviously, just the moves.

AFAIK no two complete games (played to checkmate/stalemate) have been recorded as identical. The maths makes it hard for that to happen in any event, although there have been plenty of identical novelty games played (4 move checkmate, for example)

Could that (or indeed has that) ever happen to anybody who's not a complete mushroom?



Honestly?

No.

Someone who isn't a complete mushroom would spot the threat on f7 and stop the checkmate.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 15, 2013, 09:18:36 PM
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7iPNHXW3Dg

Anand in his exit interview.

He refers to Aronian as his Angstgegner. Never heard this expression myself before, but my basic German suggests it's along the lines of worst opponent (most feared opponent).


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on January 15, 2013, 09:27:30 PM
Tal, Honeybadger will be bringing his chess set to DTD next time he's there.  We're going to have a game whilst we're playing poker, or have a game on the clock in between poker.  You need to get your chess-arse down there as well and me and Stu can play together to lose against you.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: TightEnd on January 15, 2013, 09:32:10 PM
If it is an updated event, ie I am there, I would love to play too

If you could get to DTD earlier, midday say, will open the doors for you and we can play timed before the masses come in and make the place busy?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 15, 2013, 09:34:10 PM
If it is an updated event, ie I am there, I would love to play too

If you could get to DTD earlier, midday say, will open the doors for you and we can play timed before the masses come in and make the place busy?

Or...we could test out the commentary booth while Honeybadger and Kinboshi are playing?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 15, 2013, 10:41:11 PM
Have any 2 recorded professional games ever ran out exactly the same?

Another question occurs to me after this first one:

Are all professional games recorded?

I don't mean on video obviously, just the moves.

As for your second question, all the tournaments amongst the elite players are recorded and most are on the internet either livestreamed or posted within a few hours of the game.

It is all the more common for games to be recorded and available publicly.

On a personal level, I have a record of every long play (>1hr each) game I've played since I was 9½ when I played my first comp. Somewhere :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 16, 2013, 05:59:35 PM
Some rather big news has broken.

The Candidates Tournament - the tournament that will decide who goes on to challenge Vishy Anand for the World Championship - will be held in March in...LONDON!

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8777

Here is the venue:

http://savoyplace.theiet.org/

All the big boys will be there (finally this has been sorted - it has been a long time coming with a lot of debate and dispute), including Magnus Carlsen.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Honeybadger on January 17, 2013, 02:10:23 AM
Oooh! I might go down to London for a day if it is nice and easy to get tickets.

What you say Boshi, Tal, anyone else... fancy going to watch some chess with me?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: skolsuper on January 17, 2013, 02:30:47 AM
Oooh! I might go down to London for a day if it is nice and easy to get tickets.

What you say Boshi, Tal, anyone else... fancy going to watch some chess with me?

Can always get tickets off the touts outside the ground.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 17, 2013, 07:34:12 AM
Now now, skolsuper! Play nicely :)

I'm interested in going. Obv you have Cheltenham week to navigate, but there's plenty of time away from that.

Best idea would be to see when the games are decided so we know who is playing whom when. We can pick our days then.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 17, 2013, 08:35:02 AM
Here's a nice piece that is less theory-heavy.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8766

An Indian journalist went to the home of Vishy Anand and played two blitz games against him. The article is the first of two parts explaining his preparation and a little detail about the mind of the World Champ.

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/anand08.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on January 17, 2013, 07:11:11 PM
Aronian Anand is brilliant.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 17, 2013, 07:11:59 PM
Aronian Anand is brilliant.

It really is a brilliant game.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 17, 2013, 08:08:31 PM
An update on the cheating scandal curnow reported on the other day: an interview with the man at the centre of the controversy:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8781


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 17, 2013, 08:14:11 PM

And a lovely report on the fifth round in Wijk aan Zee:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8782

Danny King's play of the day featured Harikrishna and van Wely:

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVJKOcYoItU





Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 17, 2013, 08:32:45 PM
Here is Danny King's walk-through of the Aronian-Anand game:

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn59JJZN_l8


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 18, 2013, 05:38:20 PM
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8783

Some pictorial impressions of Wijk aan Zee and the tournament hall. My favourites:

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/wijk/impressions01.jpg)

Next one for Tikay...

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/wijk/impressions02.jpg)

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/wijk/impressions08.jpg)

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/wijk/impressions18.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 18, 2013, 05:46:38 PM
Live games are here (with computer assistance and webcams):

http://www.tatasteelchess.com/tournament/livegames

Carlsen won against Sokolov and Anand drew with Harikrishna. Karjakin also drew, against Caruana, who is yet to set the tournament alight.

Giri is currently fighting to save the game against Hou Yifan and that should be a good watch for the purists.

Aronian has a small edge against Leko.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 18, 2013, 10:55:33 PM
Loek van Wely - Wang Hao   1-0
Hikaru Nakamura - Erwin L'Ami   ½-½
Anish Giri - Hou Yifan     0-1
Fabiano Caruana - Sergey Karjakin   ½-½
Levon Aronian - Peter Leko   1-0
Magnus Carlsen - Ivan Sokolov   1-0
Pentala Harikrishna - Vishy Anand   ½-½

Here's a review of how round six happened:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8784

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/wijk/table-a06.gif)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on January 19, 2013, 01:55:53 AM
Please let Anand find form and Carlsen win the candidates tourney.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 19, 2013, 10:26:48 AM
Please let Anand find form and Carlsen win the candidates tourney.

Well, Anand is playing better than he has for two years, so that is encouraging.

Odd as it sounds, there will be a lot of draws if they play a World Championship. They often cancel each other out. It might be a lot of hype followed by a lot more hard work for journalists to keep the interest levels high


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 19, 2013, 11:00:25 AM
Why does Magnus Carlsen keep winning?

English International Master Andrew Martin has a theory and then takes you through the action of the Norwegian's win against India's Harikrishna.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohRA3tLzkDQ

There are a number of schools of thought about how you should approach a game against a weaker player. Some would do nothing differently and expect their game to be good enough to win.

Some would play aggressively and look to blast the guy off the board.

Some would play more cautiously so as to avoid defeat and then to work from there.

Some will follow Euwe's principle of doing what your opponent least wants you to do, so you get into a game you might not be comfortable with but that you KNOW the villain is hating.

And then there's Magnus, who gets into deliberately unclear positions, knowing that he will cope better than the opponent and take them straight out of their preparation.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 20, 2013, 12:01:46 PM
(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/wijk/r07-02.jpg)

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8787

Anand caught up with Carlsen yesterday by beating van Wely. Carlsen couldn't get past Peter Leko:

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/wijk/r07-04.jpg)





Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 20, 2013, 12:04:10 PM
Latest table:

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/wijk/table-a07.gif)

Round 8 - Sunday 20th
van Wely, L. - Nakamura, H.    
Giri, A. - Wang, H.    
Caruana, F. - L'Ami, E.    
Aronian, L. - Hou, Y.    
Carlsen, M. - Karjakin, S.    
Harikrishna, P. - Leko, P.    
Anand, V. - Sokolov, I.    


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: MintTrav on January 20, 2013, 04:25:32 PM
Why are their performance ratings for the tournament so high? I thought Carlsen's ranking of 2861 is supposed to be ridiculously high. The World Champion is 'only' 2772. Yet there are 5 players hitting over 2800 for this tournament and one on 2917.

Anand has beaten 2802, 2735 & 2679 and has drawn with 2861, 2759, 2698 & 2720. How does that get him to 2917?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 20, 2013, 04:37:13 PM
The system works - as I understand it - on the basis of what your mean, 'expected' score should be against the opposition. So you get the average rating of your opponent and, say here his average opponent has been the same rating as his, that would mean he should score 3.5/7. He's +1.5 on that, so that should be quite a marked improvement on his current rating.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 21, 2013, 11:59:40 AM
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8789

Another Carlsen win yesterday. Another game in which 99% of players would have shaken hands for a draw. Even other Grandmasters are stunned. Games and videos in the link above. Well worth a gander.

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/wijk/r08-04.jpg)

Magnus is now sole leader by half a point and, with games against 4 of the bottom 5 left (only Nakamura is in the top 9), few would bet against him lifting the trophy.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: MintTrav on January 21, 2013, 01:04:47 PM
Ah, the old 92-move seasnake. We haven't seen that for a while.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on January 21, 2013, 09:50:20 PM
Magnus' endgame vs anyone ever?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 21, 2013, 09:56:37 PM
In 1980, a group of chess computers played against each others in the first world chess computer championships.

The 2013 Sundance film festival will feature a film about it, with brilliantly realistic 80s-ness:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8792

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/computerchess02.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 21, 2013, 10:09:43 PM
Magnus' endgame vs anyone ever?

Always a tough one. Petrosian was a fighter like Carlsen, such that it was said you had to beat him three times in a game (opening, middlegame and endgame).

Capablanca, Lasker and Alekhine will appear on just about any chess list and they were all brilliant endgame players.

I'd plump for Rubinstein, although Carlsen would beat him if they played today more times than he would lose.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 21, 2013, 10:53:30 PM
Here's a nice Rubinstein endgame:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1003323

So this is over 100 years old but an example - perhaps like the Carlsen game yesterday - of a level game being turned into a win.

Play through the first 20 moves at pace if you like. The key stuff comes later.

After 20 moves, the position is level but Black has that pawn on d5. This is called an Isolated Queen's Pawn because he can't be defended by one of his own pawns. The IQP can be really strong, particularly when there are lots of pieces on the board, as the knight has a good square on e4 to hop onto and the opponent can easily become cramped.

However, here, the master has swapped pieces off and that pawn is a little exposed. It generally wouldn't be a lost for most players, mind, but best play makes it at the very least uncomfortable.

Also in White's favour is that he has two bishops, which work well together in endgames, especially when there is space for them to roam. What he wants to do is keep the option of swapping a pawn or two off to crate some diagonals to operate in and also to avoid letting the black knight get in and cause mischief.

First thing Rubinstein does is put a bishop in front of the IQP to highlight the weak dark squares. He won't swap that off unless and until he's confident of winning the game and that will require creating another weakness or two.

By move 36, Rubinstein has worked his way through the dark squares and has a good, strong king. 37.a5 fixes the weakness of the dark squares completely (If you only have one bishop, you want to put your pawns on the other colour squares, so you have room for your bishop and you can attack the opposing pawns).

After 44.b4, Black is almost in what is called Zugzwang, where he is left without a move that doesn't lose. He can move the h-pawn forward but white can just move his bishop one square along and eventually Black has no option but to lose a pawn. This wasn't accidental, but a symptom of the pressure created by Rubinstein's picture perfect play.

After 46.h5, White can just take the pawn on d5, but this is a trap. If he takes, the bishops come off and then king takes back. Then, though, Black plays Kd7 (THE OPPOSITION) and White never gets through.

So, Rubinstein delays a move by playing 47.Ba2 and now black has to move his king, so when the bishops come off, it is white who gets the opposition.

And Rubinstein wins.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on January 21, 2013, 11:20:44 PM
That's awesome thanks Tal, love the commentary too.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 21, 2013, 11:25:03 PM
Games from that era were/are much easier to follow, which is precisely why I encourage people to look at Alekhine games and those of his contemporaries.

In a modern game, a Grandmaster wouldn't allow the position Black gets into - they'd sooner sacrifice a pawn or a rook for a bishop for a bit of play than get into a slowly losing endgame.

But if you play online against a <1800 player, this sort of game is perfectly possible.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: MintTrav on January 22, 2013, 12:02:56 AM
After 44.b4, Black is almost in what is called Zugzwang, where he is left without a move that doesn't lose.

Similar to Numberwang?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 22, 2013, 12:08:13 AM
After 44.b4, Black is almost in what is called Zugzwang, where he is left without a move that doesn't lose.

Similar to Numberwang?

Ha! More like unwang I suppose!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 22, 2013, 08:51:35 PM
Carlsen beat the 2600 rated Hou Yifan with Black today (remember Carlsen is almost 250 points higher, so his win wasn't a huge surprise). Here's a video of some of today's action. You get a few minutes of the players walking into the room (no, not like the darts...), a bit of some of the games from the rail and an interview or three:

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU2u0cEOGWw


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on January 22, 2013, 09:09:33 PM
After 44.b4, Black is almost in what is called Zugzwang, where he is left without a move that doesn't lose.

Similar to Numberwang?

Ha! More like unwang I suppose!

That's Numberwang!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 22, 2013, 09:18:15 PM
After 44.b4, Black is almost in what is called Zugzwang, where he is left without a move that doesn't lose.

Similar to Numberwang?

Ha! More like unwang I suppose!

That's Numberwang!

Why yes it is.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on January 22, 2013, 09:30:02 PM
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjOZtWZ56lc

:)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 22, 2013, 09:34:21 PM
I like the one that starts:

"We have Julie, who is from Northampton...and Simon, who is also from Southampton"

Such a neatly executed sketch.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 23, 2013, 08:42:34 PM
Carlsen won again today. A few days ago, I put a link to English IM Andrew Martin's video in which he explains his theory of how the Norwegian keeps winning games. One of the points he made was that sometimes players give him too much respect and don't threaten him enough over the board, going out with a whimper, rather than a bang.

Erwin L'Ami is no slouch but he played too passively and got rolled over with barely a cross word.

Have a look at the crosstable after ten rounds:

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/wijk/table-a10.gif)

To score 8/10 against this standard of opposition is an outstanding accomplishment, even when the man himself is as highly rated as he is. Games, videos and analysis are here:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8796

Hou Yifan played nicely and beat the significantly higher rated Harikrishna. Here she is:

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/wijk/houyifan06.jpg)



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: millidonk on January 23, 2013, 09:01:09 PM
Reason to watch Twilight:

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qGy8eShXwHs/TqtaNBM2HkI/AAAAAAAAqWA/1ZO_30GmOpI/s1600/Kristen-Stewart-Sexy-4.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 24, 2013, 12:12:58 AM
Must be a photoshop job. She's smiling.

Vampire chess. Who'da thunk it?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: MintTrav on January 24, 2013, 01:10:12 AM
I was going to ask whether there is a requirement to wear suits, cos so many of them do and, if so, why it would be necessary, so I'm surprised to see Anand in what looked something like a rugby shirt.

I see on Chessbase that there is a dress code: "dress trousers or jeans, a long-sleeve or shirt-sleeve dress shirt, alternatively T-shirt or polo, loafers or dressy slip-ons, socks, shoes or sneakers (no beach-wear slips, etc.) and, if appropriate, a sport coat or blazer".

Don't worry, I've answered my own question. Still think Anand was borderline at best.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 24, 2013, 08:00:10 AM
I was going to ask whether there is a requirement to wear suits, cos so many of them do and, if so, why it would be necessary, so I'm surprised to see Anand in what looked something like a rugby shirt.

I see on Chessbase that there is a dress code: "dress trousers or jeans, a long-sleeve or shirt-sleeve dress shirt, alternatively T-shirt or polo, loafers or dressy slip-ons, socks, shoes or sneakers (no beach-wear slips, etc.) and, if appropriate, a sport coat or blazer".

Don't worry, I've answered my own question. Still think Anand was borderline at best.

This is all just for the elite tournaments. If you wanted to play a local weekend comp, there is essentially no dress code. I once played a game against someone who was wearing a novelty hat. It was a while back. I think...it was a jester hat.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 25, 2013, 08:20:23 AM
Yesterday was a rest day in Wijk, but the tournament that has been happening in Gibraltar offers some newsworthy results after just three rounds. Giant-killings are afoot!

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8798

Some annotated games for you to play through, so you can see where these top players went wrong.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 26, 2013, 09:47:29 AM
An interesting if not spectacular round at Wijk aan Zee saw Carlsen have a bit of a bore draw with Wang Hao. Aronian closed the gap by beating Nakamura in a neat game. Karjakin won after Sokolov got into time trouble (having to make a lot of moves in little time to make the time control) and made some mistakes. Here are all the annotated games, pictures and videos:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8802

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/wijk/sokolov03.jpg)

Here's the crosstable after 11 rounds:

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/wijk/table-a11.gif)

Carlsen needs 1½ points to be sure of victory, although one likely does it. Aronian will have to beat the solid Giri and the woefully out of form Caruana to challenge for the title.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: TightEnd on January 26, 2013, 11:40:06 PM
who won at DTD?

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/735212_10152456695690564_1490674420_n.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 26, 2013, 11:59:04 PM
Kinboshi appears to have played Qd2 and blocked his bishop in. As the two knights are still on the board (b1 and f3), he can't have exchanged and recaptured with his queen, so he must have moved it there for a tactical reason. This is interesting...

Aha! The black queen is the piece hidden by honeybadger's hand - it has followed the diagonal d8-a5 - and I imagine it delivered check on a5, against which kinboshi opposed queens and honeybadger responded by taking a pawn on c5.

Working out what has happened is half the fun.

Truly fabulous picture, though. I'm sure Chess Thread will have fun looking at the game and we can do some non-judgmental analysis for everyone's benefit.

With the International having closed, perhaps there is a gap in the market this side of London for a poker place that has chess on offer?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Honeybadger on January 27, 2013, 12:24:50 AM
Hmmm... Currently I am being crushed by boshi 3-0.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 27, 2013, 12:30:08 AM
Hmmm... Currently I am being crushed by boshi 3-0.

Based on that picture, develop your bishops and knights first and leave your queen at or near home until you have done so.

As a general point, when your opponent makes a move, answer the key question: Why did he do that?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Honeybadger on January 27, 2013, 12:45:32 AM
Lol. Queen move (...Qa5+ followed by ...Qxc5) was fairly standard because he played dxc5 in the Benoni.

We seem to be very evenly matched, but I keep losing on time :-(


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on January 27, 2013, 12:53:33 AM
It's because I'm younger apparently.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 27, 2013, 12:55:11 AM
Lol. Queen move (...Qa5+ followed by ...Qxc5) was fairly standard because he played dxc5 in the Benoni.

We seem to be very evenly matched, but I keep losing on time :-(

I'm not one to comment on that, as I frequently use more than my opponents.

I couldn't work out from the picture what the opening was. Only the opening Mikhail Tal used against Botvinnik in 1960 to great success! I've always preferred as white playing d5 and refusing the exchange but it is much a preference thing.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Honeybadger on January 27, 2013, 04:15:19 AM
4-0 to boshi. Three of them time losses :-(


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Honeybadger on January 27, 2013, 07:07:13 AM
Tal... re my Queen walk in the Benoni. After 1 d4 Nf6  2 c4 c5  3 dxc5 it's pretty obvious I should just have played 3 ... e6 planning 4 ... Bxc5, with immediate equality. But it was a five minute game so I didn't spot this and just went ...Qa5+ then Qxc5.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 27, 2013, 08:11:52 AM
Tal... re my Queen walk in the Benoni. After 1 d4 Nf6  2 c4 c5  3 dxc5 it's pretty obvious I should just have played 3 ... e6 planning 4 ... Bxc5, with immediate equality. But it was a five minute game so I didn't spot this and just went ...Qa5+ then Qxc5.

It isn't a problem. I had a quick look on my database and both Qc7 and Na6 have been played by strong players. Yes, e6 is the main move but what is important is how you play after that.

Sounds like you had fun and some good games, though, even if the clock got in the way.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on January 27, 2013, 10:20:13 AM
4-0 to boshi. Three of them time losses :-(

Variance


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 27, 2013, 10:46:44 AM
The very best in their field go through a purple patch every now and then, where they seem utterly invincible. Magnus Carlsen is very much in one of those.

Yesterday, he played Hikaru Nakamura, who is a hugely aggressive player. Carlsen was unfased by the aptly named Kalashnikov variation of the Sicilian and seemed wholly composed when the American played h5 to try to blast open the White kingside. Instead, Nakamura's risk-taking left him exposed as his pieces were disparate and not working well together. Carlsen weathered the storm and picked off the weaknesses, delivering a position after 30 moves you'd pin up on your wall as a teenager and gaze at longingly.

With Giri holding Aronian and L'Ami holding Anand, Carlsen won Wijk aan Zee with a round to spare. Here are the games, pictures, reports and videos:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8804

And here is a video of the start of the games. You can see Anand's little eccentricities as he adjusts the pieces and plays out his first few moves. Everything is deliberate and calculated.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV7hdh1uh00

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/wijk/r12-01.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 27, 2013, 10:49:19 AM
(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/wijk/table-a12.gif)

Danny King walks you through Carlsen's win. A nicely constructed ten minute video:

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ax8Za9oIhI


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on January 27, 2013, 10:49:48 AM
Thought that first sentence was about me...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 27, 2013, 10:55:20 AM
Thought that first sentence was about me...

Well, if the glove fits...

You're the Magnus Carlsen of DTD chess.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: smashedagain on January 27, 2013, 10:58:10 AM
4-0 to boshi. Three of them time losses :-(

Variance
i noticed Boshi was wearing an ear piece and kept texting your moves. :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 27, 2013, 05:20:12 PM
4-0 to boshi. Three of them time losses :-(

Variance
i noticed Boshi was wearing an ear piece and kept texting your moves. :)

Invoice in the post.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on January 27, 2013, 06:23:52 PM
4-0 to boshi. Three of them time losses :-(

Variance
i noticed Boshi was wearing an ear piece and kept texting your moves. :)

Invoice in the post.

I was in losing positions in at least two of the games, so if I had been getting help, it wasn't very good...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: smashedagain on January 27, 2013, 06:48:07 PM
4-0 to boshi. Three of them time losses :-(

Variance
i noticed Boshi was wearing an ear piece and kept texting your moves. :)

Invoice in the post.

I was in losing positions in at least two of the games, so if I had been getting help, it wasn't very good...
A bad day for chess playing footy supporters :(


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 27, 2013, 07:09:31 PM
4-0 to boshi. Three of them time losses :-(

Variance
i noticed Boshi was wearing an ear piece and kept texting your moves. :)

Invoice in the post.

I was in losing positions in at least two of the games, so if I had been getting help, it wasn't very good...
A bad day for chess playing footy supporters :(

Behave the pair of you :D


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 28, 2013, 08:23:39 AM
Wijk aan Zee came to a fascinating conclusion yesterday and there was still time for a shock.

China's Wang Hao turned World Champion Vishy Anand over in a Scotch Opening. Anand lost out in the race for second place because of it. If you play through the game, whilst Black gets an active knight, the White bishop covers more ground and, as the position opens up, this becomes critical. Anand tried a cheapo at the end (this is a chess colloquialism for a last ditch swindle attempt) but it wasn't to be.

Carlsen had already locked up the tournament and was playing against Giri, who had been solid if largely dormant all comp. Draw then? Yes and no. Carlsen got into a bit of a mess out of the opening against the Sämisch variation of the King's Indian (this is defined by white playing f3) and the position after 12 moves looks utterly horrible for Black. Giri pressed and won a pawn but Carlsen found a very cheeky way to get a perpetual check, which Giri can only have missed, and the draw was saved.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8806



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 28, 2013, 08:27:09 AM
(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/wijk/table-a13.gif)

Carlsen rode his luck, but his dominance of the game is hardly in dispute.

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/wijk/r13-01.jpg)

Anand will see this tournament as a pivotal moment, where his aggression and willingness to use it came back, albeit with mixed results. He will likely have to defend his title either later this year or early next and he will need to show that fight then, as he will surely be playing someone more skilled and aggressive than Gelfand.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on January 28, 2013, 08:19:40 PM
Hi Tal,

Will Carlsen's rating keep going up? How far can it go iyo?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 28, 2013, 08:44:29 PM
Hi Tal,

Will Carlsen's rating keep going up? How far can it go iyo?

Good question. No one knows how good Carlsen can be. All we do know is he's getting better and, as long as there are people around him improving, too, the pace of his increase needn't slow down all that much.

Obviously there is talk of 3000 and there was such talk in Kasparov's dayday, but he could conceivably win the Candidates' tournament with a big score and be pushing 2900 by the summer. That would be ridiculous.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 30, 2013, 08:17:53 AM
Here is a story about a man I've never heard of but who has led a fascinating life, much celebrated in his native Hungary and has been seemingly crucial to the success of Hungarian chess for a generation:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8812

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/misc/kallaiport02.jpg)

Gabor Kallai

Worth a read and requires no specific chess knowledge to understand :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Ant040689 on January 30, 2013, 08:36:48 AM
Worth a read and requires no specific chess knowledge to understand :)

Unless it's in Hungarian?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 30, 2013, 09:15:15 AM
Worth a read and requires no specific chess knowledge to understand :)

Unless it's in Hungarian?

Only one way to find out


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Honeybadger on January 30, 2013, 05:49:16 PM
I used to have a couple of books on basic openings by that Kallai guy. Seem to remember them as being really good if not very detailed.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 31, 2013, 08:37:16 AM

Excellent. You've made me think that I should have a rummage myself and check whether I have one stowed away.


The second world war had a significant impact, understandably, on chess, but chess reciprocated:

http://www.chess.com/article/view/world-war-ii-and-chess

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=7037




Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on January 31, 2013, 08:39:11 AM
(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2011/chess14.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 01, 2013, 08:33:34 AM
A couple of nicely compiled articles on recent chess cheating scandals (in before someone says 'kinboshi'):

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8818

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/cheating01.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 01, 2013, 08:43:26 AM
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8817

The big chess news is that Peter Heine Nielsen, who has been a second of Anand for ten years, has decided to work with Magnus Carlsen for the upcoming Candidates' Tournament.

Now I should explain that Anand isn't playing in the Candidates, because the idea of the tournament is that the winner has the right to challenge Anand for the world title. However, you wouldn't find Andre Villas-Boas working with Man City just because spurs got knocked out of the cup.

There is too much knowledge of training practices, experimented lines, tried and tested novelties and ideas for this not to be a big deal.

It seems hard to figure Nielsen will revert to working with Anand after the Candidates - why would Carlsen work with him here otherwise?

They have been friends for a fair while, so in that sense it isn't a huge shock. However, it is the timing and the obvious implications that are causing headlines.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: h on February 01, 2013, 08:21:22 PM

came across  this site do people really pay that much for a chess set ?

http://www.purlinglondon.com/art-chess.php


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on February 01, 2013, 09:00:49 PM
This was made as a proof of concept - just the king though
"The king piece alone weighs 165.2 grams of 18 carat yellow gold and has a spiraling mid-section graced by 73 rubies and 146 diamonds."
(http://cdn.most-expensive.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/checkmate.jpg)

The whole set is available to commission and would cost about £1m


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Jon MW on February 01, 2013, 09:03:08 PM
This one is the whole set and cost $500,000

"Thirty craftsmen, under the direction of Maquin spent over 4500 hours creating the expensive chess set. The work was done all by hand and when it was completed, the artists used 1168.75 grams of 14 carat white gold, and approximately 9900 black and white diamonds, bringing the total weight to 186.09 carats and the total cost to $500,000."

(http://www.charleshollandercollection.com/images/LARGE/ch_large_5.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 01, 2013, 09:15:52 PM
I felt posh when I bought a Jaques set!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on February 02, 2013, 07:10:40 PM
I felt posh when I bought a Jaques set!

what Jaques set you got , got a old one myself but has a lot of damage , 4" king but still nice to have


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 02, 2013, 08:49:18 PM
I felt posh when I bought a Jaques set!

what Jaques set you got , got a old one myself but has a lot of damage , 4" king but still nice to have

Sounds like not dissimilar then. I use a nice one from Chess and Bridge for any main analysis. The trouble with anything is, if it's too expensive, you're frightened to play with it.

As if to disprove my point, my old chess coach used to use a wonderful Jaques set. He played with it for 7 hours a day, six days a week for 20 years and, apart from a bit of re-felting on the bottom of the pieces, you'd never have known.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on February 03, 2013, 11:48:16 PM
Tal what are the next upcoming events for the top GM's? What do we have to look forward to?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 04, 2013, 01:03:43 AM
Tal what are the next upcoming events for the top GM's? What do we have to look forward to?

The next big one is 15 March and that is the candidates. It's in London, too


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on February 04, 2013, 08:32:45 PM
Great tyty - do we know the line up yet? Is it always a similar format of the 8 players? Sorry, tough to google right now, plus it's better when you give us all a shedload of cool background stuff.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 05, 2013, 08:40:12 AM
Great tyty - do we know the line up yet? Is it always a similar format of the 8 players? Sorry, tough to google right now, plus it's better when you give us all a shedload of cool background stuff.

Flattery will get you everywhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Chess_Championship_2013#Candidates.27_tournament


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 05, 2013, 01:48:56 PM
On Sunday, I had the privilege of playing a couple of games against Mr Honeybadger at DTD, shortly before he went all Jesse May and purveyed his poker wisdom to the internet.

As far as I am aware (and given that TightEnd was busy overseeing the last couple of tables of the 300 Deepstack), there is no photographic evidence, so you'll have to take my word for it.

One of the games we played saw an opening I've mentioned on here before: the Averbakh Variation of the King's Indian Defence. That isn't particularly important, but we reached a position where I had a strong attack but ran out of time. One of the features of the particular line I had played (essentially one of my own creation, although I think it is probably unsound; it's just very difficult to defend against), is that White has to make the attack work, or else leave himself with a rubbish pawn structure.

We had a brief chat about it afterwards and it seems to be worth exploring further. It's lunchtime, so why not?!

Pawn structures are one of the most important elements of positional play (you will recall that there are two considerations in chess: tactics and positional play) and, as pieces come off, the weaknesses in our pawn structures often become more apparent and exposed. So, spotting them early helps us to know whether we should be looking to exchange off the pieces and win the endgame or keeping the pieces on the board and keeping our chances alive.




Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 05, 2013, 01:54:30 PM
Here is a nice website, explaining the basics of the different types of pawn structures:

http://www.mark-weeks.com/aboutcom/aa03j11.htm

And here are 5 simple videos on some of these types:

http://www.chess-game-strategies.com/pawn-structure_weak_page-1_backward-pawns.html

Pawn islands are ones to watch out for and I explained these the other night by setting up a simple game. Take a board and put all 8 white pawns in their starting position. Now put a black queen where her majesty normally sits (d8).

White to move. White needs to get a pawn to the 8th rank to win. Black needs to munch all the pawns to win.

One of the things you'll notice yourself doing is splitting the pawns up so that they can't protect each other. This is a fundamental of positional play; you are isolating the pawns, creating as many pawn islands as you can, to expose them to attack.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 05, 2013, 03:20:21 PM
> 10,000 views.

Top thread-viewing (you sad lot :) )


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on February 05, 2013, 03:28:09 PM

White to move. White needs to get a pawn to the 8th rank to win. Black needs to munch all the pawns to win.


Who should win assuming equal skill level?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 05, 2013, 03:32:05 PM

White to move. White needs to get a pawn to the 8th rank to win. Black needs to munch all the pawns to win.


Who should win assuming equal skill level?


Queen should mop the pawns up, but she can't hang about.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: smashedagain on February 05, 2013, 07:19:07 PM
Tal forgive my ignorance but how long do you play for and why have a clock?
Is there a standard time that is played.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 05, 2013, 07:52:48 PM
Tal forgive my ignorance but how long do you play for and why do you have a clock?
Is there a standard time that is played.

Good questions.

You use a clock in order to keep the overall length of the game under control (by way of example, in a tournament, you will generally play multiple games in one day, so they have to ensure round one is completed in good time for round two to start) and also to distribute the amount of time the game takes between the two players (generally evenly).

There are three basic sorts of time limits:

1. Standard play (sometimes called "long play") is the most common and that at amateur levels tends to be 3-4 hour games. There generally will be a set amount of moves you have to make within a time limit (say the first 30 moves each within 75minutes), with an extra time bonus (say 15 minutes) for getting that far added on afterwards and the game to be completed in the time you have left;
2. Rapid play is anything under an hour each for all moves and is typically set at 30mins each for all moves. There is a separate rating system in Britain for this, as it not everyone is suited to a quicker format;
3. Blitz chess is 10 mins or less each for all moves. This is the fiery stuff and some people are comparatively much better at this stuff.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on February 05, 2013, 09:42:27 PM
At the other end of the scale is correspondence chess that I used to play (pre-WWW).  Games could take as long as 6-months to complete. 

You'd write your move on a special piece of chess notation paper, put it in an envelope and send it back.  They'd see your move, make their move and repeat the process.  If there was an obvious move (you take their queen and it's obvious they're going to take your queen back on the next move), then you'd say "if KxQ, then..." and give them your subsequent move, to speed things up and save on stamps :D


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 05, 2013, 09:47:14 PM
There is still a society for correspondence chess.

Bit niche nowadays.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on February 05, 2013, 09:56:56 PM
There is still a society for correspondence chess.

Bit niche nowadays.

Surely it's all done online now though?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 05, 2013, 10:19:03 PM
There is still a society for correspondence chess.

Bit niche nowadays.

Surely it's all done online now though?

Not all, no. Most, I imagine, though.

Never been something that's interested me, but I'm internet generation, I suppose.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on February 05, 2013, 10:20:03 PM
There is still a society for correspondence chess.

Bit niche nowadays.

Surely it's all done online now though?

Not all, no. Most, I imagine, though.

Never been something that's interested me, but I'm internet generation, I suppose.

Thin.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 05, 2013, 10:21:01 PM
There is still a society for correspondence chess.

Bit niche nowadays.

Surely it's all done online now though?

Not all, no. Most, I imagine, though.

Never been something that's interested me, but I'm internet generation, I suppose.

Thin.

World wide web generation, more accurately :D


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on February 05, 2013, 10:21:51 PM
There is still a society for correspondence chess.

Bit niche nowadays.

Surely it's all done online now though?

Not all, no. Most, I imagine, though.

Never been something that's interested me, but I'm internet generation, I suppose.

Thin.

World wide web generation, more accurately :D

:D

Don't start that off again, tikay is confused enough already.


Back to the game against Stu, did you say you were winning but ran out of time on the clock?  That's how I beat him twice.  Blitz suits my game (i.e. flawed) I think.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: smashedagain on February 05, 2013, 11:44:45 PM
There is still a society for correspondence chess.

Bit niche nowadays.

Surely it's all done online now though?

Not all, no. Most, I imagine, though.

Never been something that's interested me, but I'm internet generation, I suppose.

Thin.

World wide web generation, more accurately :D

:D

Don't start that off again, tikay is confused enough already.


Back to the game against Stu, did you say you were winning but ran out of time on the clock?  That's how I beat him twice.  Blitz suits my game (i.e. flawed) I think.
again ignorance but did you win because he took too much time and flag dropped or when the flag dropped you had more pieces left with higher value


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 06, 2013, 07:06:37 AM
I lost one of the games against Stu because I ran out of time, although I had a better position and was winning over the board. It's just one of those things.

Smashedagain, the rule is that, if you run out of time, you lose. The only proviso is that the opponent must have enough material left theoretically to be able to checkmate you. So, if he has just a king and a knight, that would only be a draw, but even a pawn would be enough to claim the win (as it is possible to queen it).


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: MintTrav on February 06, 2013, 07:47:38 AM
So is Carlsen nailed on?

Without him, it would seem impossible to pick a winner between Aronian, Kramnik & Radjabov. How likely do you think it is that one of them could take it?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 06, 2013, 08:03:42 AM
So is Carlsen nailed on?

Without him, it would seem impossible to pick a winner between Aronian, Kramnik & Radjabov. How likely do you think it is that one of them could take it?


I suspect Carlsen will be 4/6 at best (and still probably a bet). I'd put Kramnik as next best, not just on rating, but on form and that he favours tournaments against very strong opposition, where Aronian excels at putting away the weaker players.

Chess is a game of small margins at that level but the world (unless you are from the old USSR) wants Carlsen to win this comp.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 06, 2013, 08:07:39 AM
A simple feature on the estimated chess earnings from tournaments of the top players, with a comparison against other games and a few sports:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8822


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on February 06, 2013, 09:05:15 AM
More than biathletes then...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 07, 2013, 12:47:43 AM
Commentating live on chess is very difficult, as the people playing are focusing all their energy on the position, while the commentators aren't. Commentating on blitz chess is nigh-on impossible. Here, however is one of the most incredible chess games you'll ever see played out before your eyes. It's from the World Blitz Championships (5 minutes each on the clock). I'm not sure exactly when it's from, but my guess would be it's 15-20 years old. Anand v Ivanchuk.

Even the very best miss things.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtSPhginkNQ


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 07, 2013, 01:09:49 AM
Here's the game itself in an easier format to follow:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1018510

The critical moment is after White's 29th move. Can you spot the checkmate for Black?

Incredible, really.

It was from 1994, so not a bad guess on my part :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 07, 2013, 05:47:28 PM
Magnus Carlsen handles odd questions:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8830

What is the big question you wrestle with?

Whether there's life after death. I had a firm conclusion when I was a child, that after people died they all gather in the universe and use their powers to start a new big bang, and that this is just an infinite cycle that perpetuates the universe.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: KarmaDope on February 07, 2013, 09:54:16 PM
Here's the game itself in an easier format to follow:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1018510

The critical moment is after White's 29th move. Can you spot the checkmate for Black?

Incredible, really.

It was from 1994, so not a bad guess on my part :)

I suck at Chess. Really badly suck.

Even I saw this move pretty much straight away. Amazed how much the time pressure can confuse even the greatest.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Camel on February 07, 2013, 10:12:45 PM
Here's the game itself in an easier format to follow:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1018510

The critical moment is after White's 29th move. Can you spot the checkmate for Black?

Incredible, really.

It was from 1994, so not a bad guess on my part :)

I suck at Chess. Really badly suck.

Even I saw this move pretty much straight away. Amazed how much the time pressure can confuse even the greatest.

Confirmed bent coup.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 07, 2013, 10:34:23 PM
Here's the game itself in an easier format to follow:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1018510

The critical moment is after White's 29th move. Can you spot the checkmate for Black?

Incredible, really.

It was from 1994, so not a bad guess on my part :)

I suck at Chess. Really badly suck.

Even I saw this move pretty much straight away. Amazed how much the time pressure can confuse even the greatest.

Confirmed bent coup.

Ha!!

The whole game from Ivanchuk's perspective was like one of my PHA posts. Started OK but there was soon a massive blunder.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 12, 2013, 08:26:21 AM
 ;bump;

I know...been a while...

Anand isn't involved in the Candidates Tournament next month, being as he gets an automatic pass to the world title match as defending champ. So he is in Baden-Baden, a place rich in chess history. He's playing against Caruana and Adams, both of whom missed the cut, as well as three German GMs, including the strong Naditsch.

Anand has been huffing and puffing all week, but blew down only his first house yesterday, against Naditsch. Here is a link to the report of the round and the annotated games for you to play through at your leisure:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8842

Anand's patience is remarkable; he doesn't panic, even though his opponent seems to have more aggressive pieces. This is ballsy stuff, because he is able to calculate that Naditsch's pieces aren't working together and, with the position tight (lots of blocked pawns, so not much space), as long as he can spot and cheapo combination threats, he'll be OK. Easier said than done, but there we go.

He played the game really very nicely and see how he traps the knight on f4 and then, when Naditsch tries to get some counterplay against the king, Anand calmly stops the queen's checks.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on February 16, 2013, 03:56:04 PM
Just caught up on this properly - thanks Tal.

Amazing how you can sit there and defend a king like that without panicking.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: MintTrav on February 16, 2013, 04:30:49 PM
You get 5 minutes for all your moves. Nakamura has 3.03 left mid-game and uses 1.30 of it over a single move!

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3qX5BdfFK8


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 18, 2013, 08:11:02 AM
Great find, MintTrav. Nakamura is a famous bullet chess (1min each for all moves) player online, which shows how confident he is of his game at speed. Even still, that amount of time being taken over a move is suicide.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 18, 2013, 08:15:39 AM
The Baden-Baden tournament has just finished and Vishy Anand has a new trophy for his cabinet:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8863

That will be the headline, but it was a case of Caruana snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, with just ½ to show from his last two games, where the World Champ won both of his. Here is the final crosstable:

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/events/baden10-table.gif)



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on February 18, 2013, 08:36:42 PM
Zugzwang was an answer on University Challenge tonight.

They didn't get it.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 21, 2013, 08:21:08 AM
A lot has been said and written about Magnus Carlsen breaking Kasparov's highest rating record, but what of the 'Beast of Baku'?

Garry Kasparov doesn't play anymore and hasn't for a decade. He has spent some time coaching (most notably getting Carlsen to World Number 1), but he has chiefly played the role of a chess ambassador - freelance, I hasten to add - around the world.

Kasparov went to Germany in October and began a Chess in Schools campaign with the sort of vigour and intensity we would only ever expect:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8528

I particularly enjoyed that he got into a furious debate over the Double-Headed eagle (no, that isn't a chess piece).

This week, he has been in Georgia (the old USSR one; not the one with the Americans in), setting up a chess school:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8868

Check out the name of the President of the Georgian Chess Federation BTW...

Some charming pictures of the work he's doing for you on the two links above, along with a brief report.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: MintTrav on February 21, 2013, 10:10:43 PM
Not persuaded that "Chess instead of Maths" is a good idea.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 21, 2013, 10:18:57 PM
Not persuaded that "Chess instead of Maths" is a good idea.

Nor am I. He's one of a kind, that man, in fairness.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: pokerfan on February 22, 2013, 06:13:24 AM
(http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq267/ppokerfan/A86C4F2C-97EF-40F1-BDB5-C52EBC4EDA91-1209-0000010EFB675B7C_zpse2541961.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 22, 2013, 08:08:17 AM
Er...imaginative..!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 22, 2013, 08:18:22 AM
I was asked a couple of weeks ago to give some basic rook endings. These are just about the most difficult of all the endgames, such that a player of my level is only so confident of being accurate in them. If you're playing against a weaker opponent, don't agree to a draw in a rook and pawn endgame unless you are losing, as there will often be so many inaccuracies, all you need to do is make fewer than the othwr guy and not make the last one :)

There are some basics of any endgame like playing actively, focusing on your opponent's weaknesses and looking to queen a pawn if you can. Rook and pawn endings have their own little rules, tho. We discussed the Philidor and Lucena positions a few weeks ago, but here is a video to explain them in more detail:

http://www.chess.com/video/player/rook-endgames-beginner-to-master-part-1

There are a few of these videos about, but part 8 is a practical exploration of some of the basics you'll likely encounter:

http://www.chess.com/video/player/rook-endgames-beginner-to-master-part-8

If they seem difficult, there's a reason for that: they are. Just remember to play actively (attack if you can) and watch what the villain is trying to do.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on February 24, 2013, 01:40:31 PM
Not persuaded that "Chess instead of Maths" is a good idea.

Nor am I. He's one of a kind, that man, in fairness.

His anti-Putin expoits recently have been fascinating. Good luck to the man.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 25, 2013, 08:23:26 AM
With less than 3 weeks to go before the Candidates Tournament, there is a small event going on in Zurich, featuring two of the contenders, the 'next best' and the the current World Champ.

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/events/zurich01.jpg)

Here are Vlad Kramnik, Vishy Anand, Fabiano Caruaua and Boris Gelfand.

It is only a short, six round tournament but it is interesting that Kramnik and Gelfand have decided to play when everyone else will be preparing for the big dance.

These are two old heads who have been there and done that, of course, but in Gelfand's case, he probably needs to find a bit of form and, in Kramnik's, he's been playing well, so why slow down?

Anyway, one round in and the four are all square:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8874

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/events/zurich06.jpg)

Here is Caruana against Anand.

Betfair has started its market on the Candidates. Carlsen 8/11, Kramnik and Aronian 9/2, 12-1 bar.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 26, 2013, 08:21:39 AM
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8877

The Zurich tournament has reached its halfway stage and no one had managed to penetrate another's defences as yet. The table after three rounds looks awfully like this:

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/events/zurich14-tab03.gif)

Kramnik and Caruana have looked the most likely to break through but Caruana couldn't convert on round 2 and Kramnik made one too many inaccuracies to get a full point yesterday.

Kramnik's decision to play a Benoni system (a challenge to the White centre) against the typically stodgy Catalan system (a popular opening among the super-GMs because it is hard to beat with accurate play) of Caruana was certainly a statement of intent; Kramnik hasn't come to Zurich for the prize money.

We have three more rounds to go, which are if you like the reverse fixtures.

Anand and Gelfand have two white games left of their three, with Kramnik and Caruana two black.

We'll see what happens.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 26, 2013, 11:00:52 PM
Some big news in Chess World, as 13 year old Wei Yi has become the youngest current Grand Master. He achieved the final qualification by dint of a win against the very strong Maxime Vachier-Lagrave:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8880

The above link also puts Wei Li's achievement into context by comparing it to other young grandmasters in chess history.

Li isn't the youngest ever to get that title, but he is currently the youngest GM around.

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/events/weiyi01.jpg)

Well done that man.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 27, 2013, 08:16:51 AM
I hope this is a more straightforward puzzle than some I've put up ITT before:

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/daily-puzzles/2272013---mate-in-2

You're looking to checkmate as White in two moves. That means you move and, when black responds, you then deliver checkmate.

Have fun with it and feel free to post your thoughts here.

If you work out the answer, explain how you came to it.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 27, 2013, 08:22:07 AM
http://www.chess.com/forum/view/daily-puzzles/2262013---constructing-the-mate

For more eager beavers, this one is a coffee time teaser. A little note challenge going in terms of technique, but oughtn't detain you too long.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on February 27, 2013, 09:14:23 AM
I hope this is a more straightforward puzzle than some I've put up ITT before:

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/daily-puzzles/2272013---mate-in-2

You're looking to checkmate as White in two moves. That means you move and, when black responds, you then deliver checkmate.

Have fun with it and feel free to post your thoughts here.

If you work out the answer, explain how you came to it.

Mate in two puzzles are usually very straightforward, as the first move is often a check, forcing the opponent to make a move that then gives you the mate. My first thought with this one was Q+, but there are options that prevent mate in two. So that doesn't leave many other avenues to explore...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on February 27, 2013, 09:16:27 AM
http://www.chess.com/forum/view/daily-puzzles/2262013---constructing-the-mate

For more eager beavers, this one is a coffee time teaser. A little note challenge going in terms of technique, but oughtn't detain you too long.



With fewer options open to white, I reckon this one's more obvious?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 27, 2013, 09:37:31 AM
http://www.chess.com/forum/view/daily-puzzles/2262013---constructing-the-mate

For more eager beavers, this one is a coffee time teaser. A little note challenge going in terms of technique, but oughtn't detain you too long.



With fewer options open to white, I reckon this one's more obvious?

Perhaps. I suppose it is about how you think. If you're tactically-minded, the first one is straightforward. The second one has fewer pieces but the rationale behind the combination (it's a 3 move mate for those who weren't sure) is more complicated.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: david3103 on February 27, 2013, 10:58:54 AM
I only dropped in to mention that The Telegraph has a piece about chess in the Sports Section today.
Viswanathan Anand was india's Sportsperson of 2012.
Just in case you chess types had missed the news really.

Tried today's two puzzles and solved both pretty quickly, but that's kind of easy when you know that the crucial moves are available to find.
Would I spot them in game? Probably not, it's years since I exercised my chess muscles and I can't beat the app I downloaded unless I slide the ability level a long way to the left.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 27, 2013, 11:27:00 AM
I only dropped in to mention that The Telegraph has a piece about chess in the Sports Section today.
Viswanathan Anand was india's Sportsperson of 2012.
Just in case you chess types had missed the news really.

Tried today's two puzzles and solved both pretty quickly, but that's kind of easy when you know that the crucial moves are available to find.
Would I spot them in game? Probably not, it's years since I exercised my chess muscles and I can't beat the app I downloaded unless I slide the ability level a long way to the left.

Thank you for stopping by, David.

That is the problem with problems, as it were: it takes some guts to do it over the board, as you have to be confident you've found an answer to a question no one asked.

It's like we mortals in our approach to PHA questions. We might say "c/raise all in because he definitely has a flush draw" but would we do it in the heat of the moment?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 28, 2013, 08:17:38 AM
Here's an interesting article about how Carlsen's rating lead compares to World Number Ones past, including some backdated estimates to when there were no ratings. Some nice pictures of the great players at the board, including one or two you will surely recognise:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8881


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on February 28, 2013, 08:21:30 AM
There was a surprise in Zurich, as Caruana defeated Anand with the black pieces:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8882

Kramnik couldn't convert his small edge against Gelfand - another surprise, considering how good an endgame player he is from the technical side - and had to agree another draw.

These tournaments are always difficult to call at the start but it was likely that there would be a lot of draws, with Kramnik and Gelfand likely staying away from lines they are working on in preparation for the Candidates.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 01, 2013, 09:53:17 AM
(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/events/zurich20-tab05.gif)

So looks the table in Zurich after two more draws. Two good games, however and worth a perusal if you have time:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8885

The link also has a video of Kramnik and Caruana analysing the game immediately after their draw. This was certainly the game of the day for me.

Kramnik had an edge in an unusual opening, which was almost a mirror image of an opening called the Benoni. The colours were reversed, though, and this meant that White (Kramnik) had the advantage of a tempo because he has the first move. He built a good looking attack but Caruana found a nice resource with a well-judged sacrifice of rook for knight.

Suddenly, Caruana had the better position and he was the aggressor, as Kramnik couldn't get his rooks working together quickly enough.

When it seemed that Caruana might have the edge, Kramnik made a spectacular move. Have a look at the position after Black plays 44...Qe3. How does White draw?

Caruana admitted he missed it, although it was unavoidable at by the time he went to play Qe3. Kramnik must have seen it a move or two earlier.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on March 01, 2013, 05:39:24 PM
Saw a car today and it had a plate on it that would be perfect for you:

C5 TAL

but it would mean you'd need to play the Sicilian all the time.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 01, 2013, 05:57:01 PM
Saw a car today and it had a plate on it that would be perfect for you:

C5 TAL

but it would mean you'd need to play the Sicilian all the time.

Yeah, I don't want to make it easy to define my range


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on March 01, 2013, 07:24:43 PM
Quote
But next month, chess returns to British television, if not to the mainstream. Sky Arts will be showing the eight-grandmaster candidates tournament to be played in London from March 14- April 1. Three Russians, a Ukrainian, an Azerbaijani, an Armenian, an Israeli and a Norwegian, will battle it out for the right to play Anand for the crown.

The TV company is promising innovations, including an eye-cam which studies the movement of the iris. This sounds intriguing, even if chess remains one of those games that is better to play than to watch. Sorry, one of those sports. If millions of Indians rate Anand over Dhoni, that is good enough for me.

should be interesting


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on March 01, 2013, 07:25:47 PM
Saw a car today and it had a plate on it that would be perfect for you:

C5 TAL

but it would mean you'd need to play the Sicilian all the time.

Yeah, I don't want to make it easy to define my range


Was an Audi A5 as well, so it would mean forgetting how to indicate and having to drive an inch away from the car in front.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 01, 2013, 07:28:35 PM
Saw a car today and it had a plate on it that would be perfect for you:

C5 TAL

but it would mean you'd need to play the Sicilian all the time.

Yeah, I don't want to make it easy to define my range


Was an Audi A5 as well, so it would mean forgetting how to indicate and having to drive an inch away from the car in front.

An A5 with a C5 number plate would have to be in black


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: kinboshi on March 01, 2013, 07:28:46 PM
You at deeteedee this weekend?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 01, 2013, 07:31:24 PM
You at deeteedee this weekend?

I'm not, sir. I'm house and dog-sitting this weekend.

Currently enjoying the Softball episode of the Simpsons.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 01, 2013, 07:33:54 PM
Quote
But next month, chess returns to British television, if not to the mainstream. Sky Arts will be showing the eight-grandmaster candidates tournament to be played in London from March 14- April 1. Three Russians, a Ukrainian, an Azerbaijani, an Armenian, an Israeli and a Norwegian, will battle it out for the right to play Anand for the crown.

The TV company is promising innovations, including an eye-cam which studies the movement of the iris. This sounds intriguing, even if chess remains one of those games that is better to play than to watch. Sorry, one of those sports. If millions of Indians rate Anand over Dhoni, that is good enough for me.

should be interesting

This is taken from the Telegraph the other day:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/9896240/Indias-grandmaster-Viswanathan-Anand-gives-chess-a-new-opening-in-Britain.html



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: david3103 on March 01, 2013, 09:12:26 PM
I only dropped in to mention that The Telegraph has a piece about chess in the Sports Section today.
Viswanathan Anand was india's Sportsperson of 2012.
Just in case you chess types had missed the news really.

Tried today's two puzzles and solved both pretty quickly, but that's kind of easy when you know that the crucial moves are available to find.
Would I spot them in game? Probably not, it's years since I exercised my chess muscles and I can't beat the app I downloaded unless I slide the ability level a long way to the left.

Quote
But next month, chess returns to British television, if not to the mainstream. Sky Arts will be showing the eight-grandmaster candidates tournament to be played in London from March 14- April 1. Three Russians, a Ukrainian, an Azerbaijani, an Armenian, an Israeli and a Norwegian, will battle it out for the right to play Anand for the crown.

The TV company is promising innovations, including an eye-cam which studies the movement of the iris. This sounds intriguing, even if chess remains one of those games that is better to play than to watch. Sorry, one of those sports. If millions of Indians rate Anand over Dhoni, that is good enough for me.

should be interesting

This is taken from the Telegraph the other day:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/9896240/Indias-grandmaster-Viswanathan-Anand-gives-chess-a-new-opening-in-Britain.html



Are all 5pur2 fans this quick?

:)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 01, 2013, 09:17:27 PM
I only dropped in to mention that The Telegraph has a piece about chess in the Sports Section today.
Viswanathan Anand was india's Sportsperson of 2012.
Just in case you chess types had missed the news really.

Tried today's two puzzles and solved both pretty quickly, but that's kind of easy when you know that the crucial moves are available to find.
Would I spot them in game? Probably not, it's years since I exercised my chess muscles and I can't beat the app I downloaded unless I slide the ability level a long way to the left.

Quote
But next month, chess returns to British television, if not to the mainstream. Sky Arts will be showing the eight-grandmaster candidates tournament to be played in London from March 14- April 1. Three Russians, a Ukrainian, an Azerbaijani, an Armenian, an Israeli and a Norwegian, will battle it out for the right to play Anand for the crown.

The TV company is promising innovations, including an eye-cam which studies the movement of the iris. This sounds intriguing, even if chess remains one of those games that is better to play than to watch. Sorry, one of those sports. If millions of Indians rate Anand over Dhoni, that is good enough for me.

should be interesting

This is taken from the Telegraph the other day:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/9896240/Indias-grandmaster-Viswanathan-Anand-gives-chess-a-new-opening-in-Britain.html



Are all 5pur2 fans this quick?

:)

Knew I'd seen it somewhere before. Couldn't find the link :)

Thank you!!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 01, 2013, 09:19:38 PM
And I'm very slow for a spurs fan.

Apart from the one I saw on Pointless today giving his answer to the question "name a country with a population of over 50m people" as New Zealand...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 02, 2013, 12:30:36 AM
I spend a lot of time ITT raving about just how incredibly good the players at the top are.

Then the second favourite in the upcoming Candidates Tournament and former World Champion, Vladmir Kramnik goes and does this:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8888

Plays beautifully to force an edge against Anand and then blunders horribly to lose material and then the game.

Caruana beat the apparently tired (if he's tired after this comp, how can anyone fancy him in two weeks' time to win the Candidates'?!) Gelfand and he wins the tournament by a clear point.

Kramnik will be fuming, I'm sure. How will he react in London?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 02, 2013, 12:37:50 AM
The link above also mentions the 1953 Zurich tournament, which was a double-round 15 player affair (oh how the schedules have changed)

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/events/zurich08.gif)

Some names we've met before and a few I really ought to bring back my biographies on.

Lazslo Szabo looks like a bit of a mouthful. Except the first name is Lesley and the surname means Taylor.

Les Taylor came 12th.

Much better.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 03, 2013, 10:22:39 PM
Here is the website for the Candidates Tournament, which starts on 14 March with the opening ceremony and round one starts on 15 March.

http://www.worldchess.com/candidates/index.html

Tickets will be £30 a day (£11.25 for students).


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Skippy on March 03, 2013, 11:02:11 PM
Tickets will be £30 a day

Yikes!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 04, 2013, 08:12:02 AM
Tickets will be £30 a day

Yikes!

I just checked and it's £25 in the week, £30 at weekends.

I would expect there to be other things included in that beyond entry, like access to the commentary room, but it would essentially be an all day ticket (doors open 12.30, matches start 14.00, matches finish between 16.00 and 21.00).

I pay at least that to go and watch spurs for 1½ hours and it's in line with the London Chess Classic (OK a fiver more for both sets of tickets).

No idea when the next chance to see such a strong field will be.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 05, 2013, 08:18:29 AM
Something a wee bit different, if I may...

I was perusing some of the articles on chess.com and came across something quite fun.

http://www.chess.com/article/view/quotsecrets-of-grandmaster-playquot-by-john-nunn-and-peter-griffiths

Here, the author explains why this book, Secrets of Grandmaster Play, helped him in his development as a player.

It interested me for three reasons: firstly, it is a well-written article with some nice diagrams and explanations; secondly, it is an excellent book; but thirdly, one of the co-authors of the book, Peter Griffiths, is a good friend of mine and my former coach.

Enjoy


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Skippy on March 05, 2013, 06:11:01 PM
Tickets will be £30 a day

Yikes!

I just checked and it's £25 in the week, £30 at weekends.

I would expect there to be other things included in that beyond entry, like access to the commentary room, but it would essentially be an all day ticket (doors open 12.30, matches start 14.00, matches finish between 16.00 and 21.00).

I pay at least that to go and watch spurs for 1½ hours and it's in line with the London Chess Classic (OK a fiver more for both sets of tickets).

No idea when the next chance to see such a strong field will be.

So if they made the time controls 40 moves in 10 hours, you'd pay £100 per ticket? Just because it lasts longer, doesn't make it worth more.

London Chess Classic field was stronger too, plus I get the impression that there was more outside stuff to do there.  Trouble with chess is that there appears to be little advantage whatsoever to actually going, rather than just watching it on the internet, which isn't true of live sport.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 05, 2013, 06:32:47 PM
Tickets will be £30 a day

Yikes!

I just checked and it's £25 in the week, £30 at weekends.

I would expect there to be other things included in that beyond entry, like access to the commentary room, but it would essentially be an all day ticket (doors open 12.30, matches start 14.00, matches finish between 16.00 and 21.00).

I pay at least that to go and watch spurs for 1½ hours and it's in line with the London Chess Classic (OK a fiver more for both sets of tickets).

No idea when the next chance to see such a strong field will be.

So if they made the time controls 40 moves in 10 hours, you'd pay £100 per ticket? Just because it lasts longer, doesn't make it worth more.

London Chess Classic field was stronger too, plus I get the impression that there was more outside stuff to do there.  Trouble with chess is that there appears to be little advantage whatsoever to actually going, rather than just watching it on the internet, which isn't true of live sport.

You make some good points, Skippy. An all day pass for £25-30 for me I'm OK with. However, I'd expect there to be things on beyond the main event, there to be a seat available to rail the commentary (at the London Classic, there were two sets of concurrent commentary: a main one that was streamed and a second one for more in depth analysis) and access to the press conferences afterwards.

What I will say is this field is considerably stronger than the Classic. There are the same few at the top (minus Anand) but the weaker players are a lot stronger and reverse results are much more plausible in these games.

I have to say, on a purely personal level, there is a bit of an "I was there" thing with going to the Candidates this time. Not only is it in London, but, if Carlsen were to win this and go on to beat Anand, it would mean I was there at the start of something special.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 05, 2013, 11:27:20 PM
A few of the strongest players in the British Isles went to Bunratty to play a comp last weekend (27th-3rd).

It was won by Michael Adams, who we saw in the London Chess Classic and has recently regained his British Number 1 status, after briefly conceding it to Luke McShane.

Here is a nice review of the tournament and some links to the most interesting games:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8895

(http://www.chessbase.com/news/2013/events/bunratty03.jpg)

Have a look at this game by Adams against the solid International Master Thomas Rendle:

http://www.icu.ie/games/display.php?id=30733&align=left

Adams plays a sharp variation against the Ruy Lopez and you can see the centre opens up quickly. Once that happens, Black has equalised and the advantage White gets from the first move is effectively neutralised.

Adams then sets about attacking the pawn structure Rendle has set up, undermining the chains of connected pawns and creating weaknesses.

Chess players have their own styles and something I have noticed in Adams's games is how he seems to have an incredible knack (and he more than anyone else in even the elite) for having his pieces in exactly the right spot, as if purely by chance when the position changes.

By way of example, have a look at the light squared bishop and his dark-squared brother. They don't do much moving in the entire game and yet they are enormously powerful, more and more as the game goes on. He doesn't have to manoeuvre and fiddle at all. It is all there and nothing Rendle does seems to help.

As the report indicates, Rendle recognised he was on the wrong end of a rough one. It was a beaut of a game for me and a demonstration of Adams at his glorious best.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: MintTrav on March 06, 2013, 12:41:53 AM
Tickets will be £30 a day

Yikes!

I just checked and it's £25 in the week, £30 at weekends.

I would expect there to be other things included in that beyond entry, like access to the commentary room, but it would essentially be an all day ticket (doors open 12.30, matches start 14.00, matches finish between 16.00 and 21.00).

I pay at least that to go and watch spurs for 1½ hours and it's in line with the London Chess Classic (OK a fiver more for both sets of tickets).

No idea when the next chance to see such a strong field will be.

So if they made the time controls 40 moves in 10 hours, you'd pay £100 per ticket? Just because it lasts longer, doesn't make it worth more.

London Chess Classic field was stronger too, plus I get the impression that there was more outside stuff to do there.  Trouble with chess is that there appears to be little advantage whatsoever to actually going, rather than just watching it on the internet, which isn't true of live sport.

You make some good points, Skippy. An all day pass for £25-30 for me I'm OK with. However, I'd expect there to be things on beyond the main event, there to be a seat available to rail the commentary (at the London Classic, there were two sets of concurrent commentary: a main one that was streamed and a second one for more in depth analysis) and access to the press conferences afterwards.

What I will say is this field is considerably stronger than the Classic. There are the same few at the top (minus Anand) but the weaker players are a lot stronger and reverse results are much more plausible in these games.

I have to say, on a purely personal level, there is a bit of an "I was there" thing with going to the Candidates this time. Not only is it in London, but, if Carlsen were to win this and go on to beat Anand, it would mean I was there at the start of something special.

I was there at the Kasparov-Kramnik match in 2000 (one day anyway). From what I remember, the players were on a stage with the board shown on a giant display to one side. There was a separate room where some GMs were discussing the match for a smaller crowd, though you could listen to the commentary on headphones in either room. Don't remember what it cost, though.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 06, 2013, 06:01:25 AM
That is interesting. I've never been to a World final or to a Candidates. The London Classic is the only time I've seen these people in the flesh (apart from the Brits, obv), though I've been 3 times to that.

It's the first Candidates Tournament since 1962 (since then, it has been a knock-out format of matches). Petrosian won that year and went on to beat the 1961 champion, Botvinnik.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 06, 2013, 08:28:40 AM
Tigran Petrosian was born in modern day Georgia to Armenian parents in 1929. He learned chess at the age of 8 but was orphaned during the war and found himself sweeping the streets to stay alive. He began to suffer health-wise and his hearing in particular, but muddled through.

When he could, he bought and studied chess books, particularly the most famous of the time like My System by Nimzowitsch.

He developed his playing style as a profoundly positional player, learning quiet openings like the Caro Kann and playing them beautifully.

By the 1940s, he was competitive in the USSR and and by the early 1950s, he was among the elite, playing in the 1953 Candidates' Tournament

At this point, Petrosian seemed happy to draw rather than to play for wins and he was broadly criticised for his negative playing style. By 1957, he had added an extra dimension to his game and was winning more against the top brass.

His ability to avoid defeat served him very well against the much older Mikhail Botvinnik, when they played their 24 game match for the 1963 World Championship and Petrosian won with 5 wins to 2.

He defended his title against Spassky, only to lose it in 1969 to the same fellow.

Petrosian died in 1984 of stomach cancer but his legacy will be his almost unbeatable style, with it having famously being said that you had to beat him three times in a single game to win (opening, middlegame and endgame). Tal found him enormously frustrating and over the board they were polar opposites.

He was nevertheless capable of brilliancies and most of these were around his ability to sacrifice material for a small, intangible advantage. Slowly, the power of his remaining pieces would start to show, even though he was materially behind. This is common practice now but was almost revolutionary at the time, with (as is often the way) everyone assuming that there was little more to discover to move the game forward. Positional sacrifices weren't new but he made them more common and more sophisticated.

Chess is a game by its form, an art by its content and a science by the difficulty of gaining mastery in it. Chess can convey as much happiness as a good book or work of music can. However, it is necessary to learn to play well and only afterwards will one experience real delight.

I'm absolutely convinced that in chess – although it remains a game – there is nothing accidental. And this is my credo. I like only those chess games, in which I have played in accordance with the position requirements... I believe only in logical and right game.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 06, 2013, 08:32:24 AM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/Tigran_Petrosian_World_Chess_Champion.jpg/220px-Tigran_Petrosian_World_Chess_Champion.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8qiRKC3GWDU/T47D1GlidpI/AAAAAAAAA-g/X5uLSCd94sE/s1600/petrosian01.jpg)

(http://www.echecs-photos.be/BobbyFischer-photos/slides/1971%20Bobby%20Fischer%20and%20Tigran%20Petrosian%20are%20seen%20during%20their%20fourth%20game%20of%20the%20semi-final%20series%20for%20the%20world%20chess%20title%20Oct.%2013th%20in%20Buenos%20Aires%20Argentina.jpg)

Above, playing Bobby Fischer


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on March 06, 2013, 10:47:30 PM
wish Adams was playing the match in London , no british players at all

he played at our club several times even as a master in County Club matches , played his dad Bill & won but never played him


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 07, 2013, 12:13:28 AM
wish Adams was playing the match in London , no british players at all

he played at our club several times even as a master in County Club matches , played his dad Bill & won but never played him

If there had been a host venue pick, he might have made it. He's playing pretty well recently as well, but being 25th in the world (or thereabouts) just doesn't get you a seat on merit.

You'll likely know that a lot of international GM tourneys (even as high as the Grand Prix) have host nation players as standard. For the Candidates, because it's a World Championship cycle, the rules on who is in and who is out are strict, complicated and - being FIDE - suboptimal.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 07, 2013, 12:14:43 AM
Also, Mickey is a spurs fan and is therefore an auto-ledge.

;)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: MintTrav on March 07, 2013, 12:41:38 AM
wish Adams was playing the match in London , no british players at all

he played at our club several times even as a master in County Club matches , played his dad Bill & won but never played him

If there had been a host venue pick, he might have made it. He's playing pretty well recently as well, but being 25th in the world (or thereabouts) just doesn't get you a seat on merit.

You'll likely know that a lot of international GM tourneys (even as high as the Grand Prix) have host nation players as standard. For the Candidates, because it's a World Championship cycle, the rules on who is in and who is out are strict, complicated and - being FIDE - suboptimal.

That's one word for them. Crap is another.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 07, 2013, 12:58:55 AM
wish Adams was playing the match in London , no british players at all

he played at our club several times even as a master in County Club matches , played his dad Bill & won but never played him

If there had been a host venue pick, he might have made it. He's playing pretty well recently as well, but being 25th in the world (or thereabouts) just doesn't get you a seat on merit.

You'll likely know that a lot of international GM tourneys (even as high as the Grand Prix) have host nation players as standard. For the Candidates, because it's a World Championship cycle, the rules on who is in and who is out are strict, complicated and - being FIDE - suboptimal.

That's one word for them. Crap is another.

Also that.

It is a little quirky that, Carlsen apart, all of the Candidates were born in the USSR.

Here are the latest ratings (as of 1 March):

http://en.chessbase.com/Home/TabId/211/PostId/4009023/fide-march-2013-ratings-040313.aspx

So, if the only criterion were the top 8 players apart from the world champ, Hikaru Nakamura of the USA and Vessilin Topalov of Bulgaria would be in.

Caruana of Italy has had a good 12 months and Anish Giri of Netherlands would be another excellent European, as would Peter Leko of Hungary. China's Wang Hao has been a form horse of late, too.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: McGlashan on March 07, 2013, 10:42:59 PM
£25/30 for the candidates tickets sounds a little on the high side at first but if it'll go down as a really memorable day out and I'd rather go to that than spend the same amount of money on a football ticket or a night out.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: McGlashan on March 07, 2013, 10:53:00 PM
There's been a bit of gambling chatter on The Candidates over at 2+2 http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/140/chess-other-board-games/2013-world-championship-candidates-tournament-1307431/#post37504343 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/140/chess-other-board-games/2013-world-championship-candidates-tournament-1307431/#post37504343). 

A couple of guys have ran simulations and notably Radjabov came up as a value outsider.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 07, 2013, 11:27:58 PM
There's been a bit of gambling chatter on The Candidates over at 2+2 http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/140/chess-other-board-games/2013-world-championship-candidates-tournament-1307431/#post37504343 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/140/chess-other-board-games/2013-world-championship-candidates-tournament-1307431/#post37504343). 

A couple of guys have ran simulations and notably Radjabov came up as a value outsider.

Really interesting read, that. Thank you. Some incredibly lacks of understanding as well ::) :D

For me, it's like saying you're backing a centre half to score a hattrick. Radjabov might have a 7% chance of winning and they're offering 20/1, but you don't get to eat that value very often.

I've just made a couple of lengthy posts on Tips for Tikay as I think Aronian is too short compared to his chance of winning.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: McGlashan on March 08, 2013, 12:05:04 AM
It's hard to disagree with you so far Tal and 5/6 would look great for a Kramnik match bet vs Aronian. Personally I'll be leaving the winner market alone after taking up a position on Magnus @1.8.

About Radjabov he might be value but would realistically only come into consideration if a field without Carlsen was offered.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 08, 2013, 08:21:50 AM
If I were being pushed to say who could spring a surprise, I would choose Ivanchuk. He is either hot or cold but he is capable of beating the bottom half of the field and holding his own against the top half.

He is by far the best opening theorist and likely as a result the hardest to prepare for.

But he has these moments sometimes in tournaments where, if it isn't going well, he can hit the self destruct button.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on March 09, 2013, 02:21:54 PM
Hi Tal

I've got a hand history for you to take a look at if you've got any time please.

I did a couple of sacrifices which I'd be interested in your opinion on please. There's an early one around move 10 swapping a knight for a couple of pawns and what I thought was a strong pawn position near my opponents king. I'm also threatening the promotion on B1/C1 Good idea or bad?

My position just seemed nice and open and got my rooks in the game.

The second one is 27 Rd3 sacrificing another knight for quite an easy rook.

Everything worked out well and I got the win but I can't help but notice that every now and then shredder does the most ridiculous moves that totally mess it up and basically gift the game.

44 looks like an easy winning position for shredder to me and I'm sure there are a few others.

That's what I want you to check for me really. Although I won I know that there's a few obvious mistakes by shredder that should've swung it easily his way. 47 Kd5 is a ridiculous one. Why doesn't he just advance his pawn?

It's mainly the early knight sacrifice that I'm interested in. I think I made a few big mistakes after that which shredder just didn't capitalise on.

Flame away

Cheers

1.d4 d5 2.e4 Nf6 3.e5 Ne4 4.Ne2 e6 5.g3 c5 6.b3 Qa5+ 7.c3 f5
8.exf6 gxf6 9.Qc2 Na6 10.g4 e5 11.f3 cxd4 12.fxe4 dxe4 13.Qxe4
dxc3 14.Qc4 c2+ 15.Nbc3 Ba3 16.Bxa3 Qxa3 17.h4 Qb2 18.Rc1 Ke7
19.a4 Be6 20.Qe4 Nc5 21.Qxc2 Qxc2 22.Rxc2 Bxb3 23.Rd2 Rad8 24.Bg2
Nd3+ 25.Kf1 Bc4 26.Bxb7 Nf4 27.Rc2 Rd3 28.Nxf4 Rd2+ 29.Ke1 Rxc2
30.Ncd5+ Kf7 31.Ne3 Rc1+ 32.Kd2 Rxh1 33.Bxh1 Rd8+ 34.Nfd5 Bxd5
35.Bxd5+ Ke7 36.Kc3 Rc8+ 37.Kd3 Kd6 38.Be4 Rb8 39.Bxh7 Rb3+ 40.Ke4
Rb4+ 41.Kf5 Rxa4 42.Kxf6 a5 43.Nf5+ Kc7 44.g5 Rf4 45.Kxe5 Rf1
46.h5 a4 47.Kd5 a3 48.Kc4 a2 49.Ng3 Rc1+ 50.Kd4 a1=Q+ 51.Ke4
Rg1 52.Nf5 Qa5 53.g6 Rg4+ 54.Ke3 Qa3+ 55.Kf2 Rb4 56.g7 Rb2+ 57.Kg1
Qa1# 0-1


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 09, 2013, 04:11:19 PM
^^^

Will take a look when I can, sir. Just on my way to one of those there poker comps in Brum.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 10, 2013, 11:34:31 AM
You will, I hope, enjoy this:

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7JcwOJADf8


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 10, 2013, 11:35:31 AM
He would have been 70 yesterday.

Here are some videos and a short piece about him:

http://en.chessbase.com/Home/TabId/211/PostId/4009095/bobby-fischers-70th-birthday-100313.aspx


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 10, 2013, 12:12:26 PM
OK EvilPie. I've had a quick look at your game.

There is a general opening point in this game about getting your pieces out. You make a lot of pawn moves and - probably because your opponent does the same - you don't regain any urgency after that. The attack you want to make on his exposed king is much more effective with your pieces out, so sorry less about those thrusting pawn breaks and play Nc6 behind the c5 pawn, get your bishops out and castle. I wouldn't worry about Qa5+ either. It looks pretty but doesn't do a lot. You want to take advantage of him not developing so concentrate on either opening the centre or the kingside. Put your resources there either way.

The knight sacrifice reminds me of when I ask why I shouldn't triple-barrel into three players when 400bb deep against a load of fish. It might work but there's absolutely no need to find out. You have a much better position and your pieces aren't ready for an immediate breakthrough, so why give him a chance?

Rd3 is a brilliant move. It isn't a sacrifice; you're winning material. Seriously, it is a very good move indeed.

On 34, don't take the knight. It is pinned and defended as many times as you at attacking it. Attack it again. Ke6 swaps everything off and gives you a won endgame.

Shredder calls the endgame right but staying aggressive is often the way to win endgames. That doesn't seem to be a problem for you (and that's a compliment :) )


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on March 10, 2013, 02:33:46 PM
Thanks for that Tal. Much appreciated.

Just tried the King move on 34. Shredder refused the full swap choosing to keep his bishop and let me keep my rook but it was still an easy end game for me.

Need to play it through a few more times and see how it all develops.

Interesting stuff :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 10, 2013, 10:34:37 PM
Yes, the computer knows he has to avoid that king and pawn endgame, so doesn't do the last swap. Doesn't matter tho, as you say.

A nice little piece on Fischer's relationship with Iceland (no, not the Kerry Katona/Jason Donovan/Coleen Nolan one...):

http://en.chessbase.com/Home/TabId/211/PostId/4009099/memorial-exhibition-for-bobby-fischer-in-reykjavik-100313.aspx

The most famous connection was his World Championship match in 1972, at the height of the Cold War, against the USSR's defending champ, Boris Spassky.

(http://en.chessbase.com/Portals/4/files/news/2013/fischer08.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: McGlashan on March 11, 2013, 01:41:11 PM
Out of interest how many Blondes out there are considering going along to the watch the candidates?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 11, 2013, 01:49:22 PM
Paddy Power has the line at 1.5


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 11, 2013, 05:49:50 PM
Out of interest how many Blondes out there are considering going along to the watch the candidates?

In all seriousness, whilst I will likely be going either next Friday or Saturday (can't make this weekend), I would suspect the entry fee will make it unlikely that others will come along.

£25 is a fair wedge if you're only quite interested, although, FWIW, there is a practical obligation to make the event accessible to novices, enthusiasts and passers-by alike, else it will struggle to sell the brand. This is important to the man handling the overall World Championship cycle, who is trying to extend chess interest markedly.

My suggestion to those who are feeling put off my the price would be to wait until this weekend and see what the website shows is going on. If you're not getting enough bang for your buck, follow it online instead and keep up to speed with Chess Thread ;)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: McGlashan on March 11, 2013, 09:30:59 PM
Hey Tal normally a friend and I come down from Scotland for the London Chess Classic but on this occasion I'll miss out due to being abroad. On the other hand less poker will be played due to an online candidates sweat.

Ladbrokes have also priced it up. Magnus is 8/15 and at first glance the market has a high over/under.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 13, 2013, 09:18:21 PM
It will be a fabulous three weeks for sure. There will be some brilliant chess, albeit with a couple of draw merchants in the comp (Radjabov has a wonderful ability to calculate but does draw a LOT of games!).

Long format allows people to play aggressively and the likes of Grischuk, Ivanchuk, Kramnik, Aronian and Carlsen need no permission slips to go for a win.

For those who want to know about Levon Aronian, here's Chessbase's player profile on the Armenian nice guy:

http://en.chessbase.com/Home/TabId/211/PostId/4009146/candidates--levon-aronian-2809--world-3-130313.aspx


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 13, 2013, 09:24:41 PM
As for the betting, Betfair was ten spots above the bookies the other day, so I'm on Carlsen at 1.67 and a bit more at 1.66.

There's a lot in Carlsen's favour going into this tournament, but he has the toughest start with Aronian and then Kramnik. If he gets through that with more than two draws, he'll be shortening. Less and he might actually be worth betting more if the market twitches too far.

Whatever happens, it seems certain we will have a special tournament. Over 40 years since the last Candidates tournament.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: McGlashan on March 14, 2013, 12:16:03 PM
Fyi there's a drift on Magnus to 1.69 @Marathon


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 14, 2013, 01:24:58 PM
Fyi there's a drift on Magnus to 1.69 @Marathon

Russian money, I expect


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 14, 2013, 11:36:50 PM
Wellity, wellity wellity.

It all begins tomorrow (there was an opening ceremony today but I've not been any details of it as yet...) with round one and those with nothing to do between races at Cheltenham might wisely choose to watch the action on the tournament site:

http://london2013.fide.com/en/main-page/1-news-en/195-player-statistics

The link above is a bit of fun, pinch of salt take able statistics, with a head-to-head of the players historically.

The likes of Carlsen and Radjabov were getting munched by these other guys six or seven years ago, whereas Kramnik and "Chucky" were still in their thirties.

Here's to a special comp.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 16, 2013, 09:50:07 AM
A cagey affair first up.

Kramnik didn't fancy a long game the day before he takes on Carlsen. Aronian and Carlsen didn't want to go far and, once Aronian had seen his opening neutralised, the players shook hands.

All games, pics and analysis is here:

http://en.chessbase.com/Home/TabId/211/PostId/4009167/candidates--games-of-round-one-under-way-160313.aspx


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: MintTrav on March 16, 2013, 10:51:23 AM
So probably Ivanchuk would be least happy with those results, not winning with White against Grischuk?

Possibly also Radjabov, even with Black, as the reports suggest that he believes he is so much better than Gelfand that he can deliberately play some dodgy moves to open the game up and then take a win?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 16, 2013, 03:25:48 PM
So probably Ivanchuk would be least happy with those results, not winning with White against Grischuk?

Possibly also Radjabov, even with Black, as the reports suggest that he believes he is so much better than Gelfand that he can deliberately play some dodgy moves to open the game up and then take a win?

Radjabov-Gelfand saw two of the drawiest players playing each other, so I'm not exactly shocked they drew.

You're right to point out the opening, though, as Gelfand isn't regarded as being very good in that department (it is all relative, we must remember). Radjabov tried to lure Gelfand forward so that he could counter punch but the Israeli was having none of it.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 16, 2013, 03:27:50 PM
(http://en.chessbase.com/Portals/4/files/news/2013/candidates/r01-07.jpg)

Any chance of a picture, Magnus?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 16, 2013, 05:02:41 PM
Live games link (there are a few sites showing them):

http://london2013.fide.com/analysis/index.html


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 16, 2013, 08:38:55 PM
The games are complete from round two and we have joint leaders.

No. Not eight of them. Two of them.

Carlsen and Kramnik swapped everything off and agreed a draw before the spectators had even opened the hobnobs. I've no doubt that would be annoying to those who'd paid £30 entry plus whatever travel to see these guys play, but this isn't purely an entertainment business.

Radjabov got an edge early against Ivanchuk and never let go, pushing away at Chucky's lack of development to earn a big enough advantage to claim victory.

Aronian is (like Carlsen) very comfortable in unclear positions and Gelfand...isn't. At least not as much. A level but muddled position with multiple weaknesses didn't suit the Israeli (well, born in Belarus, but he plays for Israel now). Aronian took full advantage and the full point.

Grischuk and Svidler played out the kind of Ruy Lopez Super-GMs marmalise weaker players in but draw against each other without too much grief. So it proved. They drew.

http://en.chessbase.com/Home/TabId/211/PostId/4009172/candidates-r2--radjabov-aronian-draw-first-blood-160313.aspx

The table looks like this after two rounds:

(http://en.chessbase.com/Portals/4/files/news/2013/candidates/table02.gif)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 16, 2013, 11:05:29 PM
(http://en.chessbase.com/Portals/4/files/news/2013/candidates/r02-02.jpg)

This is what the playing hall looks like.

Compare and contrast:

(http://chess-king.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/fischer_korchnoi_curacao_1962.jpg)

1962, the last Candidates Round Robin Tournament, Curaçao.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: The Baron on March 17, 2013, 06:52:56 PM
Looks like Carlsen's endgame brilliance might pay off again.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 17, 2013, 08:01:30 PM
Gelfand let it slip, really, and his understanding of the endgame (incredibly but at that level it is tiny things that make the difference) let him down.

It is a typical Carlsen win, nonetheless.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: MintTrav on March 18, 2013, 02:05:39 AM
It must be horrible to be Gelfand. He can beat virtually everyone in the world at chess. According to Wikipedia, there are 1380 living Grandmasters (a lot more than I thought). He can beat all of them except about a dozen. Yet he is forced to keep playing (and losing to) the handful of players who can beat him. He must know he is going to be beaten to a pulp at this tournament but he has to play. So he looks like a duffer, even though he could thrash any of the GM experts commentating on the games.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: pokerfan on March 18, 2013, 02:48:05 AM
Just found these back of house at Westfield Stratford,

(http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq267/ppokerfan/84B065F2-0DC3-4155-9803-9CFBAA32E658-1565-000000E39E5CF35E_zpsaa24ce70.jpg)

Must have been in a real battle.

(http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq267/ppokerfan/0F437630-6FBA-41E0-B9E5-C026B7A9E0A8-1565-000000E3A6F0D0E2_zpsd80bd527.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 18, 2013, 07:50:02 AM
It must be horrible to be Gelfand. He can beat virtually everyone in the world at chess. According to Wikipedia, there are 1380 living Grandmasters (a lot more than I thought). He can beat all of them except about a dozen. Yet he is forced to keep playing (and losing to) the handful of players who can beat him. He must know he is going to be beaten to a pulp at this tournament but he has to play. So he looks like a duffer, even though he could thrash any of the GM experts commentating on the games.

There is an element of truth in that, but we oughtn't forget that Gelfand won the candidates last time and almost beat Anand in the world championship match.

It is like being Malaga and capable of beating loads of teams in loads of leagues but not likely to finish above Barca or Real.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 18, 2013, 07:51:42 AM
Poker fan, it is your mission to get the chess board back in the Westfield.

I'll be down in April for the IPO London, so you've got time :)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 18, 2013, 08:15:59 AM
Round 3 Roundup

Boris Gelfand 0-1 Magnus Carlsen
Vassily Ivanchuk 0-1 Levon Aronian
Peter Svidler 1-0 Teimour Radjabov
Vladimir Kramnik ½-½ Alexander Grischuk

There were some odd games today and the tournament really got going. Aronian found himself benefiting from a slow opening by Ivanchuk and the Ukrainian tried to compensate for his lack of incision by launching his h-pawn forward and going from 0-60 as fast as a Porsche 911. Chess rarely works like that and, against the very best, you will get punished.

Chucky ended up taking too long to look for ways to improve and lost on time, well before the time control.

Kramnik and Grischuk played a wild-looking game which eventually fizzled out into a draw. I'm never quite sure who is the more relieved player when that happens. I suppose Grischuk enjoys the crazy stuff a bit more but Kramnik is more than competent in that department.

Radjabov has played pretty well in the first two games and those who had taken 16-1 on him might have been checking their betting slips all day. Sadly for him and them, he got into an almighty mess against Svidler and tried a sacrifice in desperation. It was tricky but Svidler coped well and sealed the full point.

Carlsen's game was a textbook performance from the World Number 1. If you play through the game, you would be forgiven for thinking White should be winning. When it gets to 25...Nf8, the problem White has is that Black is defending everything and he has no way of creating any imbalances in the position. What is left is a bishop on the same colour as his own pawns (this is bad) against a knight that will slowly come into the game.

This is a simple positional idea called "Knight against Bad Bishop". The game should still be a draw, according to the computers and the experts, but it is very difficult to defend as White and, if he slips up slightly, it could be the difference between ½ and 0. That is precisely what happened and Gelfand tried to push his own pawns forward in a position where he had to concentrate on stopping Carlsen's. It is frightfully difficult to know that but Carlsen is a master of these positions.

Here are the games and some analysis of the Ivanchuk-Aronian game:

http://en.chessbase.com/Home/TabId/211/PostId/4009178/candidates-r3-three-decisive-games-180313.aspx



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 18, 2013, 08:18:29 AM
(http://en.chessbase.com/Portals/4/files/news/2013/candidates/table03.gif)

The cross table after 3/14 rounds.

A day off for the players today. This will come as a welcome relief to Gelfand and Ivanchuk, who are on a run of 2 defeats.

They do have to prepare for playing each other tomorrow, however...


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: MintTrav on March 18, 2013, 09:15:45 AM
It must be horrible to be Gelfand. He can beat virtually everyone in the world at chess. According to Wikipedia, there are 1380 living Grandmasters (a lot more than I thought). He can beat all of them except about a dozen. Yet he is forced to keep playing (and losing to) the handful of players who can beat him. He must know he is going to be beaten to a pulp at this tournament but he has to play. So he looks like a duffer, even though he could thrash any of the GM experts commentating on the games.

There is an element of truth in that, but we oughtn't forget that Gelfand won the candidates last time and almost beat Anand in the world championship match.

It is like being Malaga and capable of beating loads of teams in loads of leagues but not likely to finish above Barca or Real.

I think the Anand result showed Anand's weakness rather than Gelfand's strength. Surely it is a cert that whoever wins here will beat Anand. I can't see him beating any of the top 4 at this stage.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 18, 2013, 09:45:42 AM
It must be horrible to be Gelfand. He can beat virtually everyone in the world at chess. According to Wikipedia, there are 1380 living Grandmasters (a lot more than I thought). He can beat all of them except about a dozen. Yet he is forced to keep playing (and losing to) the handful of players who can beat him. He must know he is going to be beaten to a pulp at this tournament but he has to play. So he looks like a duffer, even though he could thrash any of the GM experts commentating on the games.

There is an element of truth in that, but we oughtn't forget that Gelfand won the candidates last time and almost beat Anand in the world championship match.

It is like being Malaga and capable of beating loads of teams in loads of leagues but not likely to finish above Barca or Real.

I think the Anand result showed Anand's weakness rather than Gelfand's strength. Surely it is a cert that whoever wins here will beat Anand. I can't see him beating any of the top 4 at this stage.

He does well against Aronian, as it happens. One of those odd quirks where a player just suits another. He played a game against Aronian recently that was out of this world.

I do agree, though, that I wouldn't back Anand to retain his title.Doesn't mean he will make it easy or that he isn't an outstanding player even now.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 18, 2013, 02:14:41 PM
(http://d1lalstwiwz2br.cloudfront.net/images_users/tiny_mce/SonofPearl/phpZuQHus.jpeg)

Radjabov gives Svidler a hearty staredown


(http://d1lalstwiwz2br.cloudfront.net/images_users/tiny_mce/SonofPearl/phplRNhXa.jpeg)

Before he starts his game with Aronian, Ivanchuk sits in the audience.

(http://d1lalstwiwz2br.cloudfront.net/images_users/tiny_mce/SonofPearl/phpwGc4fN.jpeg)

Carlsen looks up at the big electronic display to see how the other games are going.


These photos are taken from chess.com:

http://www.chess.com/news/candidates-tournament-round-3-9936


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on March 18, 2013, 04:31:09 PM
how does this work , the winner goes on to play Viswanathan Anand , think most of us want Carlsen playing him  but not sure this format will give us the result we want & games against Radjabov , Kramnik & Grischuk will who wins


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 18, 2013, 05:21:28 PM
how does this work , the winner goes on to play Viswanathan Anand , think most of us want Carlsen playing him  but not sure this format will give us the result we want & games against Radjabov , Kramnik & Grischuk will who wins

Carlsen is suited to long format tournaments much as Man United are suited to a season-long league.

Knockout matches throw up silly results and that was precisely what happened last time there was a candidates.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on March 19, 2013, 09:10:59 PM
What's that opening called Tal where Magnus has gone Kd7?

Does it have any particular advantages?


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 19, 2013, 09:22:53 PM
What's that opening called Tal where Magnus has gone Kd7?

Does it have any particular advantages?


I take it you mean Nd7 for knight (chess notation is an odd little sort!).

It is the Cambridge Springs variation of the Queen's Gambit. That's the Qa5+ bit of it, anyway.

Your question is, I gather, more about Carlsen putting the knight on d7 rather than c6. The point is, as Black in this opening, you choose either to put the knight on c6 and have a more pressure on the centre or to have an extra defender of the d-pawn with c6 and play more solidly with Nd7.

It is really a choice/style thing.

The pawn structure of c6-d5-e6 is quite common against the Queen's Gambit, but make sure you look after the dark squares, as they can become exposed if you don't.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 19, 2013, 09:53:31 PM
I've had the pleasure of watching the live streams of the games of Round 4 with my old coach and a Grandmaster, so I can report on events with some level of confidence.

Carlsen was the only winner today. A little while ago, I posted a video about how people seem to play differently against Magnus Carlsen, to the point that they seem to lose the game themselves when they play him. This was one of those games, as Grischuk had a perfectly respectable position and then tried a kamikaze kingside attack when keeping it simple was the order of the day. He had also managed to put himself in a horrible mess on the clock. Carlsen was patient and picked his opponent off for the full point.

Radjabov v Kramnik was last to finish and it was the Azeri, Radjabov, who threatened most to seal victory, prodding away with two hanging pawns (connected only to each other) and keeping the pressure on Kramnik. Kramnik's defence and technique was resolute, however, and a long and intense game ended in a draw.

Svidler caught Aronian on the hop a little, by playing an opening different to the one he almost always plays. Far from critical, though, and Aronian was able to play sensibly from his existing vast opening repertoire. Svidler made a clever sacrifice in order to kill off any attacking hopes for Aronian and a draw was agreed relatively quickly.

The fourth game was a bit bonkers, with the bottom two facing each other. Ivanchuk chose a rarely seen opening and both he and Gelfand took what seems like an age over each move for the first three hours. All of a sudden, the game exploded into life after Gelfand had deliberately trapped in his own bishop(!). Ivanchuk sacrificed a piece for an attack, only to settle for a perpetual check, when it became clear that there was nothing more in it. I suspect both players are both frustrated and relieved.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 19, 2013, 10:02:35 PM
The crosstable so far looks like this:

(http://en.chessbase.com/Portals/4/files/news/2013/candidates/table04.gif)

Games and videos are here:

http://en.chessbase.com/Home/TabId/211/PostId/4009221/candidates-r4--carlsen-joins-aronian-in-the-lead-190313.aspx



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 20, 2013, 12:51:25 AM
Thinking Caps On

(http://en.chessbase.com/Portals/4/files/news/2013/candidates/grischuk01.jpg)

Grischuk

(http://en.chessbase.com/Portals/4/files/news/2013/candidates/kramnik03.jpg)

Kramnik

(http://en.chessbase.com/Portals/4/files/news/2013/candidates/radjabov04.jpg)

Radjabov


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 21, 2013, 02:25:01 PM
Round 5 was all draws, although Calrsen survived a mild scare against a battling Ivanchuk. Carlsen said afterwards:

“It was a very difficult game. I tried to be creative in the opening. He responded well and I was worse, so I decided to sacrifice a pawn in order to get into an endgame which I thought I could hold,”

Fair to say it was a day of missed chances, as Kramnik should probably have converted his edge against Aronian.

Pictures, videos and in-depth analysis are here:

http://en.chessbase.com/Home/TabId/211/PostId/4009237/candidates--postmortem-of-round-five-210313.aspx

(http://en.chessbase.com/Portals/4/files/news/2013/candidates/r05-06.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 21, 2013, 02:49:15 PM
Live games from Round 6 started about half an hour ago. Here is the live action:

http://london2013.fide.com/analysis/index.html


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 22, 2013, 03:50:42 PM
Today is a rest day, so let's just confirm what happened yesterday.

Carlsen and Aronian both managed to win from seemingly level positions through a combination of technique and pressure.

Carlsen's win against Svidler came from a standard opening called the Ruy Lopez. Carlsen is an outstanding player of the Black side of this opening and chose not to play the à la mode Berlin Defence, selecting instead his more familiar Classical lines. These positions are really all about technique and Carlsen showed us all again that he has this in spades. It was a skilfully executed win, as Svidler eventually wilted and a surgical finish was not far behind.

Aronian beat Radjabov in not dissimilar terms, except that Aronian was the aggressor for most of it and, eventually, the dual pressures of Armenian precision and the clock told on Radjabov and he blundered rather horribly.

Gelfand failed to capitalise on a pawn loss by Grischuk by not playing assertively enough and this allowed Grischuk to equalise.

Ivanchuk had to defend for his life against Kramnik, after the Russian made a sacrifice to open up the Ukrainian's King. He held on well, though, and deserved the draw. He is a funny one, Mr Ivanchuk. One day, he doesn't seem at the races; the next he shows all the guts and guile we like to see from the best in the business.

Here are all the details, pics and videos:

http://en.chessbase.com/Home/TabId/211/PostId/4009243/candidates-r6--carlsen-aronian-win-lead-220313.aspx


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 22, 2013, 03:53:09 PM
(http://en.chessbase.com/Portals/4/files/news/2013/candidates/table06.gif)

(http://en.chessbase.com/Portals/4/files/news/2013/candidates/r06-03.jpg)

Kramnik and Ivanchuk


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 23, 2013, 12:50:34 AM
(http://en.chessbase.com/Portals/4/files/news/2013/candidates/r06-06.jpg)

There's a more in-depth discussion of the round six games here:

http://en.chessbase.com/Home/TabId/211/PostId/4009249/candidates--postmortem-of-round-six-220313.aspx



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on March 23, 2013, 02:10:35 AM
Played what I think was my best game to date the other day and forgot to save the bugger!!

I sacrificed 2 knights and 3 pawns but it really opened up shredders king and he just couldn't escape.

Thoroughly enjoyed chasing it round the board with all the space for my queen and rooks out in the open.

I knew that one mistake and it was curtains but managed to keep plugging away and got the win.

So much fun :)



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 23, 2013, 08:49:07 AM
Played what I think was my best game to date the other day and forgot to save the bugger!!

I sacrificed 2 knights and 3 pawns but it really opened up shredders king and he just couldn't escape.

Thoroughly enjoyed chasing it round the board with all the space for my queen and rooks out in the open.

I knew that one mistake and it was curtains but managed to keep plugging away and got the win.

So much fun :)



Awesome. Great to hear you're enoying crushing the engine :)


I'll be heading down to the Candidates today. If you go into the main room, they give you a Samsung tablet that has all the games and commentary on, so you can follow what the players are up to.

It is pretty niche, so I'd recommend saving your money unless you have a burning desire to go, as the online stuff is excellent.




Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 23, 2013, 09:14:47 PM
Four draws today, but I can't tell you how that happened.

I had the pleasure of making the short trip over to watch events unfold. Thirty of my hard earned pound notes whistled past the cashier's nose and were gone before I could say "any chance of a blogger's discount?".

Carlsen started quietly against Radjabov, with the Azeri hell-bent on going for the throat, to mix a metaphor or two. He reached a position where he had to make this attack work or Carlsen's superior structure would lead him to victory when the pieces came off.

But he found an excellent resource, did Radjabov, and when I left just before 6pm, I was certain Carlsen was going to lose his first big game for a long time.

But no.

It seems Radjabov wasn't happy with the position or at least not as happy as the observers were. He took a draw by repetition and the Norwegian's bacon was saved. (I know it's Danish bacon, but you think of a better one)

Aronian sacrificed a pawn for the aggression against Gruschuk and, again, it seemed he had an edge that would likely be decisive. However, it was Grischuk who was the more resilient and he held out to share the point.

Svidler and Ivanchuk played a ferocious rather dull game and the draw came as no surprise to anyone.

Gelfand should have secured his first win and will be absolutely kicking himself tonight. Kramnik played a very odd move in Ne8 which was begging to be punished by Nfg5. I was in the commentary room at the time (just watching...) and the whole room was just waiting for Gelfand to play what seemed to be the obvious move.

And waited...

...and waited...

But he played Nd2 instead!!!

This is what happens when you're struggling for form, of course. We have all been there in our own way. You just can't get the obvious stuff to work in your head and you end up missing out.

So it was proved, as Kramnik recovered quickly and salvaged a draw.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 23, 2013, 09:17:59 PM
http://en.chessbase.com/Home/TabId/211/PostId/4009253/candidates-r7--mercy-was-the-constant-230313.aspx

Report is via the link above.

Here is the crosstable at the halfway stage:

(http://en.chessbase.com/Portals/4/files/news/2013/candidates/table07.gif)

Carlsen v Aronian tomorrow.

Can't wait.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 24, 2013, 03:50:37 AM
(http://en.chessbase.com/Portals/4/files/news/2013/candidates/r07-04.jpg)

Carlsen was lucky to draw against Radjabov.


Kramnik will also be sleeping well tonight after Gelfand missed a golden opportunity to win.

(http://en.chessbase.com/Portals/4/files/news/2013/candidates/r07-02.jpg)


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: EvilPie on March 24, 2013, 02:14:22 PM
We're always hearing about the Karpov variation of this or the Kasparov variation of that.

Do we have Carlsen variations or Aronian variations or is that something for the future?

At some point will they become exhausted? Obviously there's an infinite amount of moves but at some point in the future for a person to put his own stamp on a variation the game would have to be pretty much over.



Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: h on March 24, 2013, 05:28:02 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21876120
 Chess and 18th Century artificial intelligence

thought this an interesting read


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 24, 2013, 06:54:22 PM
Thanks for this, h. The Turk was something completely different in its day. Even beat Napoleon!

Imagine seeing it do its thing 200 years ago!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 24, 2013, 07:03:28 PM
Good question, EP.

Think of the names of openings like drawers in a filing cabinet. Each has its own identity and the folders (the variations of the opening) in each drawer will basically have the same sort of structure.

The Ruy Lopez drawer (named after a medieval Spanish monk) will have folders called for example...

Marshall (turn of the century American)
Chigorin (a little before him)
Breyer (not sure...but old!)
Exchange (not named after a person, ldo)
Berlin (ditto)

And a few others.

There aren't many variations named after current players. There's a Shirov Variation of the Caro Kann and I think Nigel Short has one, too.

Variations get their identity early on (say within the first ten moves) and so it is rare to see many new ones springing up these days.

Things come and go as fashion dictates, of course and when Carlsen plays something new, so every player in the world gives it a go, as though it were a Cruyff Turn.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 25, 2013, 08:18:57 AM
Round 8

Carlsen ½-½ Aronian
Kramnik 1-0 Svidler
Grischuk 1-0 Ivanchuk
Radjabov 0-1 Gelfand

Carlsen was said to be annoyed with his play against his fellow leader. He told the press conference he would be working hard before today's game to plug some gaps, as he allowed Aronian to equalise with relative ease and a draw followed without much of a sweat.

Kramnik escaped when Gelfand missed a golden opportunity on Saturday and yeaterday he was in a mood to capitalise. Svidler has been Russian champion but Kramnik played dominant chess and deserved the full point. After the most solid of starts, he might be about to find some rhythm.

Everything was going fine for Ivanchuk until he ran into time trouble and made a couple of significant mistakes. Both he and Grischuk had played for the win as they can't win this tournament without a few Ws by their name. Chucky is having one of those comps, it seems, so you have to feel for him. That said, he has an encyclopaedic knowledge of openings and it is hard to understand why he keeps getting behind on the clock against opponents who simply can't prepare openings in any depth against him.

Missed bet of the day was Radjabov v Gelfand. Both players had missed chances on Saturday. Both should have won and both only drew. Gelfand would likely have been embarrassed by his error against Kramnik and it was wonderful to see him grab the game by the scruff of the neck at the next opportunity. Radjabov had no response and the end result was a foregone conclusion from a long way out. It was a lovely example of the positional.side of the game: creating weaknesses in the opponent's position and applying pressure, so that eventually it all becomes too much and the house of cards is brought to ground with a thump.

(http://en.chessbase.com/Portals/4/files/news/2013/candidates/table08.gif)

Kramnik has two huge games now and could well decide the shape of the tournament from here. He plays Carlsen as White today and then, after a rest day tomorrow, he has Black against Aronian. If he comes out of that with 1½ points, we might well have a challenger for the crown.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 25, 2013, 08:20:18 AM
Games and videos are here:

http://en.chessbase.com/Home/TabId/211/PostId/4009257/candidates-r8--kramnik-gelfand-grischuk-win-250313.aspx

(http://en.chessbase.com/Portals/4/files/news/2013/candidates/r08-06.jpg)

Radjabov v Gelfand gets underway.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Honeybadger on March 25, 2013, 01:19:02 PM
I bought tickets to see the last day of play a week today. Hope it's all tied at the top still going into the last day and we see some great matches.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 25, 2013, 01:21:22 PM
Here is a good one for the problem solvers ITT...

Click on the link above and go into the Radjabov v Gelfand game.

Gelfand's last move was 32.bxa5 (so, taking the pawn on a5), which is a nice and easy way to secure a win.

The computer saw a better way to blast open the White position; something more immediate. First move and reasons to be posted ITT please.

If someone can do a screenshot of the position after 32.Qg2, I'd be well grateful.

This highlights just how differently computers "think".


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Tal on March 25, 2013, 01:22:56 PM
I bought tickets to see the last day of play a week today. Hope it's all tied at the top still going into the last day and we see some great matches.

Awesome. The commentary room is very good and they explain what is going on, answer questions shouted from the audience and so on.

In the main room itself, you get a Samsung tablet to follow all the action on and it explains who is winning.


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: curnow on March 25, 2013, 03:27:15 PM
the    GM Svidler, P. (3½) RUS 2747   vs GM Grischuk, A. (4) RUS 2764    looks like a great game , Queen sack on move 17!!!


Title: Re: Chess thread
Post by: Evilpengwinz on March 25, 2013, 03:59:34 PM
Loving this thread. Has got me back in to chess and hooked on the free chess game t