blonde poker forum

Sorry to be the one to put this up, I've been told that it's been happening a lot.  But this is the first time I've seen it in a while.

Someone from DTD needs to be online around the bubble of these tournaments, the dicsussion in chat boxes throughout the last 3-5 eliminations was nothing short of cheating.

This is not acceptable and I do not expect to see it again.

I would like the chat reviewed and for DTD to investigate punishments for anyone typing anything remotely considered to be out of line.

I know the staff at DTD are spot on and look forward to my next sat.  Esp since the next ones are the biggies - Monte and ISPT.


Jb.

The simple solution is to close the chat when it's 10 places from the bubble.  Not sure if the ipoker software can do that or not though?

:dontask:

You win a seat JB?

Just send a PM or e-Mail to Nicola or Simon at DTD, John, they'll sort it, much more quickly & efficiently than via blonde.

yea, it was really bad. Dude folded to a 13k total shove in the bb with 10k invested too and he had like 200k lol.

Tons of collusion from scanning the tables and in the chats.

didn't we have this discussion not long ago?

yeah, i take it from that comment you did not? ul

I've messaged them on facebook but I wanted something on here to capture stories of other peoples experiences..  This could and should cost some people a fair amount of money.

loses his seat imo.

Really is hard to watch... It's if they see it as table vs table at the last stage... Even the chip leaders don't want to bust the shorties.. Wtf I need sleep come on..  ;D

Oh, I won a seat :)

You can get me that pint on Saturday mate...  ;whistle;

Defo just switch chat off 10 seats away from bubble. it was embarrassing I even told someone off it was so poor.

I'll get you one Lee Dean... I'll be up for Saturday! :D



woops.

Lee    :dontask:

You did :D

You also mocked my lovely bet-sizing ;)

Will do :cheers:

Nick is looking at this, he is away at the moment, he is trying to get ipoker to switch the chat off x places from the bubble. This is a no brainer and goes without saying that we need to be right on top of this. What do other online poker sites do about this - every online site must have bubbles in sats and tournies, what happens in the $200,000 GTE on Sunday nights in ipoker?  Rob

thanks for a quick response Rob, knew you guys would be on it.

Just glad it didn't affect the end of my tournament, however I know it did other some.

This has been going on for ages in the DTD sats and it's been mentioned countless times.

I'd guess the reason it happens is because the DTD online players are often real life friends as well. If I play a stars sat there's pretty much no chance of being on the same table as someone I know. I don't think I've ever played a DTD sat where I don't know at least 10% of the other players.

Switching the chat box off would help but wouldn't solve it. It'd certainly make it less tilting though if they aren't doing it smack in front of your face.

I don't think its the same for regular touneys but I know the chat is usually turned off in satellites x places before the bubble on most sites, including iPoker. How many places this is depends on the satellite I would guess so they should be able to do it.

This, the simple folk are doing it in the chat box we all have... at least skype call.....

thankgod someone put it on here, mostly walks were given because of 'friends' is that cheating? if ur best friend is sitting on big blind very short stack i have to make a choice, regardless of my hand i fold. this is a theory and never in my mind lol.
there was some pretty sick folds i saw when theres 50k in middle and 3k to call a guys all-in?

i think closing the chat at a certain level would do the trick, but this happens live too doesnt it?
glad it was brought up as the chat box was filled with hatred for these so called cheats, you dont have to call anything you dont want to, its your hand do as you please thats my view

same breath i understand and feel for those who came close and feel robbed:(

it's cheating yeahman, plain and simple collusion. By helping a 'friend' it unfairly affects every other player's chance of winning, who have paid the same fee in expectation of a fair shot. That in itself challenges the integrity of the game which is obv fundamental to the poker game/site's future. Ofc understand you'd want your friend to win a seat etc, but you have to look at the bigger picture i.e. players will stop playing if it isn't a level playing field = game fails. For someone to be daft enough to be put this in the chatbox beggars belief

Skype/ Facebook or whatever obv goes on. I don't honestly believe these idiots who post in the chat box even understand its cheating. The kid who I quoted on Eso's diary actually said two nights ago.... Tell Simon and Rob, what are they gonna do about it lol.

So hard to police too, gotta feel for DTD really, even when they stop chat its going to happen. Need a statement saying this is unacceptable and seats will be taken away if it happens but even then how do you judge it properly.

In my eyes really black and white - anyone who even mentions it being a bubble, who discusses stack sizes, or anything.... gets a warning and anyone who even touches a toe over that line, loses any seat they won.

Do it once and they will never do it again.

Hi.

I would like to get a few things straight here. I'm not a regular poster but do enjoy reading some great stuff from pros and rec players of which i fall into the later. I managed to bink a seat on the Monday through the skin as it were.  I read a post  last night by smashedagain that basically called me a cheat. I don't take kindly to being named in a public forum especially when you are talking about my integrity. The poker world is a small one and as a family man i feel insulted that someone mentions my name in this way when all through my life i have tried to be an honest working man providing for his family.

The facts are these.  With 60 or so players left i flick in my last 20k or so from mid position. It time banks round to the big blind and for some reason he folds when all he needed to put in was 2k out of a stack of 50k. (these figures are from memory).  Even i was shocked that he folded. I didn't know the big blind and nor have i played against him before.  Following this i get a torrid of abuse from the table accusing me of cheating/colluding etc etc. I bite back and use a bit of sarcasm to defend myself. Wrong play, i don't know.  All i know is that i haven't cheated or colluded and played it the only way i could have. I play these sats and the smaller ones quite often and my username is my name.  i have played every game with honesty and will continue to do so and don't hide behind usernames that mask identity.
From the outside looking in i see the way it looks which is why i snap e mail Nicola to let her know what happened.

 
Smashedagain - FYI i wasn't chatting to the player before hand and I didn't raise and then fold to a jam.  If your going to multi table troll at least get your FACTS right or buy a bigger screen especially if your going to mention names. In fact i never write more than gg, nh or ty in the chat box end of. lol The last time i did engage in conversation was actually with you when we were 3 handed in a mini sat 4-5 months ago.

PS well done for spelling my name right. Its just a shame that's the only thing you did get right

Akhil Avasthy

Stopping chat will pretty much solve it imo.

See too many begging posts

And when 1 table see's it going off they all start doing it

Understand that it could be difficult to police, but maybe worth a try if chat can't be switched off 10 from bubble

Dtd (observer) Hi guys just informing you that all tables are being monitored and any sign of collusion will result in loss of seat to all people involved..  etc

Thanks for taking notice Rob and thanks for the satellites  ;applause;

Hi Akhil,


Nice to get some balance to what has hitherto been a a wholly one-sided discussion. The way YOU presents the facts suggests NO improper play by yourself. We can but guess, assuming you speak the truth (I have no reason to doubt you) what the BB was thinking, but poker & poker players are what they are, a rich mix of different things.

I was not aware you had been specifically named here as a "cheat", & apologise that such an unsubstantiated comment was allowed to remain up.

It is very easy to be careless on a Forum & say improper things, apologising later, but by then the damage is done. It was primarily for this reason that I suggested to the OP, early in the thread, that the matter was best dealt with by contacting DTD direct, rather than splashing it all over the Forum. In truth, the general discussion in this thread is fine, but you should not - in my personal opinion - have been named unless there was clear proof. On the basis of your Post, there was not.

Of course, I don't know the actual facts - but then nor does anyone else except you & the BB in that hand. I see hundreds of such discussions here, & elsewhere, as part of my job. There are invariably good but unexpected reasons for inexplicable actions, as in this instance by the BB. Perhaps he disco'd, or had - God forbid - brain fade. The action by him IS inexplicable, but we don't KNOW he cheated, & on the facts as presented by you, YOU did nothing wrong.

There is a more general issue of collusion Online, apparently on DTD at present in certain situations, & it is grand that we discuss these things openly & properly. Uncorroborated accusations should never be part of that discussion though.

If you can point me to the offending Post, which I have not seen, the Mods will deal with it as they see fit.

Take care now, & thanks for giving your side of the tale.

Fully agree tikay, people need to get their facts right and post such accusations on an email to dtd and not on a general forum

A general discussion about collusion is absolutely fine, but I really don't think anyone has the right to go round calling out individuals without knowing the full facts. Unfortunately, when these sort of debates go off, there are always one or two who step beyond the line of acceptability & etiquette.

If there is proof of cheating, that is another matter of course. Very odd thing how stuff gets said on the Internet which would never be said in the real world, for fear of legal consequences, or even a slap round the chops.

Pokerstars have a floorman who you can call and he/she then goes through the chat logs.

Akhil - the Post which named you has now been located, & removed by the Moderators.

The version removed, it must be said, was substantially different to the one you Posted. We have no way of knowing the truth, but without clear proof, (the wholly different versions suggests that proof does not exist) it is wrong to suggest you cheated, as it did.

Presumably, DTD can interrogate the Hand Histories to sort this out, & I'm quite sure they will.

hey yeah I posted the post and don't make any appologise other than putting your name... I never said anything in the chat box and now the post has been deleted we now only have a one sided story. But as Tikay said my version is substantially different to the one you posted.

You did flame the situation by saying tell Rob / Simon etc and were winding the other players up. I never accused you of cheating merely pointed out that the likes of you and yeah man might not even know that it is wrong.

But like Tikay says its a good post for balance and there is definatly a problem that dtd will need to educate people about. In my eyes as you can read from my post here the people who are blatantly talking about it in the chat box are too stupid to know any better and are not seeing it as cheating.

Come find me at the weekend and I will buy you a drink/ or lunch as an apology

For the avoidance of any doubt, Players SUSPECTED (by other players) should NOT be named on the Forum, that is the very strong view of the mods.

Hence your post was deleted, Sadly amongst the tsunami of others from you last night, the content of it was missed at the time

That is not correct.

You DID accuse him of collusion, with no caveats, & you did NOT suggest in that Post that it may have been due to ignorance.

yeah I do see that posting his name was wrong. Sorry

i was railing the bubble on tuesday night i think?... i was supporting online bud jackpot.
its clear in my mind whats allowed and not allowed but like i said a page before you ask a player to knock out a friend and chances are he wont, i mean im just being honest, i always speak my mind even if sometimes wrong.
how can you force a guy to play though? to close the chatbox is the only way or 1 strict mod over looking tables warning players to reduce the amount of 'strange play'. its easy to sit on the rail and watch thinking its all cheating when its not. a missclick or player sitting  out going toilet insted of playing, are you going to punish him?
if we are just talking about using chat box then it can be solved by a mod

i might try tonight to get a seat so lets see how its dealt with :)

It can be those, or any number of other reasons. Or collusion.

It is not exactly new, or a shock, it happens in Super Sats everywhere, Live & Online, & so does ideally need monitoring & supervision.

It is almost impossible to prove based on a SINGLE INSTANCE, a basket of incidents is needed really.

When the boot is on the other foot, & people are accused, wrongly, of improper actions, it is not so nice.

Just common sense really, to take care with what we write in public.

this was the post  I put to say that they don't actually think its cheating. You can't prove that its cheating if people don't understand its cheating.

I will say sorry to Akhill at Dtd.

That was not in the same Post, it was at a different time.

When you suggested he colluded, you never mentioned his possible ignorance of the rules.

What if he was sitting out?

Again, how can we know?

he didnt time out, he folded

Yeh understand about lost connection toilet break blah blah.. But when tank folding for 3k when ya million in chips then saying "you can get me that drink on saturday"

Last thing we want is for this behavior to go on and effect future sats.

Some pretty big and important comps coming up...

Oh and 2/3 ;)

Yeah leatherman I remember that exact hand, was you on the table or observing? I don't know everyone's online names. Not putting in 3k when there was 40k ish in the middle was quite/very bad. Most of the players involved dont even come on here do they so it's falling on death ears, hard thing to police

Looks pretty bad, huh?

But think about that.

If he was deliberately colluding (daft of me to say "deliberately", as we can't collude accidentally, that's not collusion), do you really think he was serious when he said, & assuming he did, "buy me a drink on Saturday", or just being sarcy? It COULD be just sarcasm. Chat Boxes in Online Rooms don't convey tone very well, we all know that. 

Could someone really be that daft, as to say that in the chat box after deliberately colluding? If they are that daft, then they might also fold with stupid odds to call.

I'm not trying to defend colluders, not at all, I just think we should exercise the same care in judging these things as we would expect others to when attacking us.

If everyone or anyone who sees suspicious activity reports it to DTD, they'd soon build up a picture if one individual was constantly at it.

I messaged Nicola to look into something from when I pure bubbled on Tuesday evening where collusion was in abundance and someone offered $100 for the SB to fold as he was basically allin for the BB and is bound to be in the chat logs.

Here is the link to my diary plus on the last page "H" posts a hand history from the event which is interesting
http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=54701.2805 (http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=54701.2805)

Nicola did say that my message is being investigated though.

IMO, messaging DTD immediately is exactly correct, as I said in my previous Post, & near the top of the thread.

I think my discomfort is this sort of unbridled witch-hunt thing, it just sort of sits badly with me, & we've seen "mis-reporting" already.

review the hand historys, if cheating went on it's so easy to spot, fk it I'd even volunteer to review them if DTD sent me the HH's for the last 5 sats with the hands 5 places off the bubble onwards.

Chat Logs don't mean anything and prove nothing all the chat does is aggravate the people who believe cheating is going on. Anyone can say w/e they like if it's inoffensive and there is nothing anyone can do about that,

Hi Guys

From tonight we are banning the chat nearing the bubble this should eliminate players trying to discuss the bubble.

I have also sent off the previous nights chats to be reviewed by the fraud and security team and if we find any players to have colluded we will take appropriate action.

If you have any concerns with particular players please email them to support@dusktilldawnpoker.com and they will be able to send off immediately.

Cheers Nicola

In satellites its incredibly hard to "Prove" cheating as you obv know. People can make incorrect mathematical decisions and fold for a variety of reasons, such as not needing to call because its a satellite etc, they could even say its in their interests to fold to player A getting 7/1 with AK because he is a weak player and calling against player B with AK getting 9/4 because he is stronger given its a satellite and it affects the players longterm equity in the main event. So whilst its obvious to everyone with a brain who is cheating and who is looking at hand histories, anyone with a brain can make a number of arguments that basically allow them to do what they want in satellites and its very hard to argue against

Dont know y but my initial thought was of sinclair and his boys all gathered round a monitor reviewing the tapes saying we will have him when he comes in... and that 1.

dat sense. <3

Tikay/Tighty - Thanks for addressing this and removing the post, much appreciated.  The story told by smashedagain was wrong which is why i needed to get this addressed.  Going forward if DTD want to look into this no problem.  As mentioned before i have played a number of sats and never had any issues before. I have nothing to hide.

Banning the chat is defo the way forward.



Smashedagain - The post i was talking about was in Eso Kral's diary.  Your right about me chatting in the box after and in hindsight i should have just let it go.  I'm  quite a placid guy and normally let alot of stuff go but some of these keyboard warriors bring out the worst in me.  Anyway its done now as far as I'm concerned.

Thank you for the apology and offer of the drink and lunch did i hear you say!! umm look forward to that. :)
If I'm still in i ll come and find you. You ll be the one with the multi coloured clothing right?

Thanks

This.

Banning the chat would reduce things though.

Not enough, still going to go on. The chat shows people don't understand that it is wrong, which is a key issue. When players are aware it can be clamped down on a lot harder. But if people want to cheat it is very hard to stop them.

Nobody has said that banning chat will solve the problem. Obviously it is still going to go on. It will reduce it though.

Has anyone mentioned that this format of satellites is always going to be a big target for collusion? That's why Stars ditched their double-or-nothings- a few mates would all join the  same one and work as a team which gave them a huge advantage. If you've got a big stack near the bubble, you can decide who you call and try and knock out and who you can just ignore (your mates), at very little cost to yourself.

Here is another format for satellites that solve this problem (it's not my idea, I've seen it on 2+2 somewhere). I know you can't do it on iPoker without reprogramming, which isn't going to happen, but DTD could do it live without any problems, especially since they've got a great clock/ tournament management software.
 
Play until reg closes/ rebuys end and tot up a) how many total chips are in play and b) how many seats there are.  Divide the number of chips in play by the number of seats. Let's say there is a million chips in play, and 10 seats.  So that gives us 100,000 chips (1 million / 10) for a seat.

Tournament plays as normal. Once a player accumulates  100,000 chips, they've won a seat. Their chips are removed from play* and they go to the cash desk and get their prize. The tournament continues, removing players as they get knocked out (down to 0 chips) or make it to 100,000 chips, in which case they'll get a seat. Eventually there will be two players left playing heads-up for the 10th and final seat.

This format doesn't suffer from collusion, or at least no more than ordinary tournament poker. It also cuts down on dealing costs, makes the satellite quicker for the same structure, and doesn't require special satellite strategy on the part of the players (this could be a disadvantage if you are a player who has mastered satellite strategy).

* There are various alternatives for what to do if a player wins a pot that takes them over 100,000 chips. You can either take all their chips out- in which case the total number of chips in play won't make it possible for everyone to get to 100,000. You can chuck the excess chips over 100,000 back into the pots at the tables somehow. Or you can award one seat, let the player keep his surplus chips over 100,000, and let him try to win 2 seats in the same satellite.

Nice idea Skippy, never heard of that before - LIKE.


Thanks Nicola, knew you'd be onto it..

My guess and suggestion is that the people foolish enough to collude in the chatbox we can all see are obviously going to still do something to try and continue after the chat has been disabled.  But then we're all down to relying on HH's and like Lil'D says, it should be relatively easy to question someone who has consistently made folds/ plays that are suspicious/ out of line.

Like.

well...down to 2 tables 12 players left 11 get a seat in tonights sat.

wont mention names and all the other stuff that was said on the other table but two lines were


is colluding allowed?

yes

...unreal


(yes I still got a seat in case anyone asks)

just return from working away for a few days and have just seen this section for cheating. I would like to make it known that i was the player that folded in the hand when all i needed to do was call 2k when i was in the big blind for 10k, i would like to point out what happen, while playing the sat i was called away from the lab-top and when i return the clock was counting down and i miss clicked the fold button. at the time i could not believe what was being said in the chat boxes and i could not be bothered to reply because it was all petty crap.
The only reason i am posting about this is to make it clear that i don't know the player that won the pot and that i was not cheating.
I have played poker for a few years and at all levels of the game and of cause it was a call all day long and any good players would have know this and to me it was so obvious  it must have been a miss click. which i am sure most player have done while playing online.
It is quite sad that the first reaction was for a few players to say that we where cheating, (they must always play perfect poker !) during the past few years i have never seen any cheating while playing live and it must be said that sats can play very different to standard games close to the bubble but not to call 2k to win a 30k pot what!
If cheating is going on during these sats i fully back any action to stop but i also feel that some of the players that use the chat boxes need to have a look at what they post.
At this level of sat you are going to have a great mix of player levels and even the most experienced players can make mistakes. So to say people are cheating because one hand plays wrong is going to far.

Players that are busted from tourneys should also be banned from using the chatbox also.

You can't prevent cheating in exactly the same way that you can't prevent crime. You simply have to police it to deter it and punish it to discourage it from happening again.

Unfortunately, you can't rely on the players (as a whole) to put the integrity of the game before their own personal/financial benefit. The only thing that can be done to prevent this in future is to remove the chat box (which has been done).

If there's something you see that concerns you, by all means report the issue to the host and they will investigate. Ultimately, though, they'll look for patterns and trends. If it happens as an isolated incident, it is unlikely that it will be picked up on.

That having been said, I do feel that because of the way a satellite works it is very common for people to play entirely different. I've heard people say that with a huge chip lead, they'd fold aces irrespective of the amount of call. Because you almost discourage people from playing, especially with chips.

Much like crime, that's why the Justice system is aimed at reformation as opposed to outright vengeance. It believes, as I do with cheating in poker, that education and learning eliminates far more cheating than vindication does.

I've never heard of this before but sounds a really interesting format.  Would love to see something like this in place at DTD for live sats

I can understand the virtues of that format, and I think it's very interesting.

I'd like to see it actually used before considering it, though. I worry that in events that are generally crapshoots as is, the removal of chips out of it in a steady process would make that worse.

It's certainly an interesting option, of course.

The chat was still live right to the end tonight,
With 51 left I was 50th and was watching the other table and it seemed they were all time bank folding and then checking down to protect 'their' shortstack. We both made it :)
Nothing to get too excited about although maybe going hand for hand would make sense along with the chat being off

Yeah, thought the chat was being switched off 10 from the bubble in the sats from now on?  Didn't see any cheating tonight though, but better to put things in place to prevent it from happening as much as possible.

+1 to all of this

Yh 1 hand history proves nothing, one person could misclick, have a brainfreeze, just not quite grasp satelite strategy etc but look for patterns, when "out of place" stuff happens frequently with the same people it's pretty damn obvious. With a reg player pool like DTD's it would be pretty simple IMO to spot with the HH's for 5-10 sats.

I made it through but opened up another table (with the shortest stack with 50 odd to go) and not only were they time bank folding and telling everybody else to do so, the big stacks were openly calling pre so that they could get some time bank checks in.  This was discussed in the chat window.

 It certainly wasn't widespread, my table and another with a shortie on seemed to play the game fairly.

I should add it isn't the time bank folding that is the problem, time banking close to the bubble is solid sat strategy. It is agreeing to it and telling others to do so in the chat that is the problem.  And the chatlogs from that table will be pretty damning.

I also made it through, my table was fine in terms of chat. I didn't pay a load of attention to how people played as I had a few tables going but wasn't aware of anything funny going on. As others have said, if it has been happening and people are stupid enough to have said things in the chatbox then something needs to be done (which I am sure DtD will do/are already doing).

If I had 20bbs and there is 1 get knocked out to get a seat with 2 < 3bbs stacks, I would absolutely fold aces.

It's a no brainer.

Very interesting to read through these. I haven't read all posts so sorry if I am repeating. Like mentioned, you can only monitor it. But..if someone is caught of down right cheating. Eg. Small on big blind. Sb shoves and says 'Andy I have Aces fold mate' or acts of collusion, suspend their account for a week or from satellites.

Problem is the satellites are so good for many recreational players that cannot afford the buy in and it means a lot to play in these comps. So when they fold, ask people to fold, time bank fold with 79 left, even say there hands in the chat box etc etc. they are doing it with no real knowledge of malicious cheating, just desperation to win a seat. If people are really cheating, they are doing it on Skype, via Facebook or on the phone. Which you cannot monitor. Just like 4 guys sitting in the same room playing?

If satellites of this scale are being done it so often it needs a reformat of the software.

Chat turned off from beginning.. It has no purpose just to say how bad someone played a hand and got lucky vs you.

Hand for hand when X away from seat. Eg 55 players = hand for hand. Yes it will slow it down, and go on longer than present, but it makes it fair. I have seen people timeout every hand with 80+ left when there are 50 seats. It is just frustrating. I know it is not against the rules to use all your time or time bank, but when you are so close to the prize with such high blinds, You are getting punished for playing fairly and properly.

You cannot monitor genuine soft play as you goal is not to win just qualify. People fold Aces with X left without influence as they do not need to commit chips.  So let players play how they like, all you can do is just reduce the influence of others, and format the tourney so the same amount of pressure is applied to all players.

From reading this I can see the main theme is cheating/colluding, but the last few posts have also mentioned hand-for-hand play.
This really needs to be happening in these multi-seat, multi-table satellites.
I had the ridiculous skill of pure bubbling both the Wed and Thurs 8.30pm satellites for the Monte Carlo, coming 51st in both with 50 seats gtd. ;madasahatstand;
The fact that no hand-for-hand is going on, so some tables have players all timing down whilst others play quicker is simply not right/fair/whatever and this also makes collusion that little bit easier.
Thankfully just got a seat in the £5 rb......

Pretty hard to monitor colluding in sats. It's not like an actual tournament where it might occasionally be correct bvb with KK v QQ to fold. And everyone's got different strategies. For instance, a player might have 15bb, a 4bb stack is in the BB, folds to SB and he just folds TT as he doesn't want to risk losing chips and wants to fold into a seat. Whereas it might be a bad fold, it could also certainly not be colluding. Very hard to monitor. Only situations it becomes more obvious is if people with 1bb behind get walks from big stacks etc.

It is all relative as well. E.g. In Australia I played a $250 stage 2 satellite while Rupert was on the final table of the $1k. I had 10% so just wanted something to do while I railed, and as Rupert was laddering I was in a pretty good mood and was having a few beers and chatting with my neighbours etc. There were 18 seats and I was pretty short with 19 left, and the guy on my right had possibly 1/3rd of the chips in play and was shoving every hand blind. Then, without any notice, he gave me a walk when I had 1.5bbs. Obviously there was uproar and people were calling for me to be disqualified. I had my head in my hands when he did it, but honestly had nothing to do with it and, in my opinion, it would have been unfair to disqualify me, however much I benefitted from it. He just said he liked me and wanted me to win a seat, which was his prerogative as far as he was concerned. He'd won the chips and now had the right to decide who got seats.

My point is that this can't be policed on a tournament by tournament basis, only pre-meditated collusion can really be clamped down upon, i.e. people agreeing to play satellites cooperatively and playing many satellites together. This can and has been enforced in the past on other sites, but even if it is enforced here, with so many seats available in these bigger sats and such a small player pool there is always going to be this kind of 'opportunistic' collusion.

I've played a few of these and there has been a lot of timebanking from quite a long way out etc, OK I think if people think that's their best strat to win a seat.

I've seen one guy count down the number of players left (just in case the table wasn't aware how far from the win they were). But no one else got involved

I think maybe I've been lucky but from my perspective I haven't seen much/anything that looks out of line, given satellite dynamics

Tommy's right that the vast majority of the chat isn't malicious cheating, just people desperate to win a seat and haven't really considered what they're doing is cheating. Of course, there are some who know exactly what they're doing.

Easiest solution is to switch chat off, either throughout, or after the addon? Still allows the real cheats to collude on Skype, but they can do that anyway.

played this last night and there was a lot of time banking but I didn't see any coulision in chat box the bubble was over pretty quick was 3-4 players on less than 1 bb thou

was reading this thread and got up to this post. I don't know where this quote was quoted from.
the original quoter thought this was a good idea.

I couldn't disagree more.

the game is not over till its over. in a satellite environment its not a race to x amount of chips. its about finishing within the seats. its like saying that if you got down to 2 tables in a  tournament then the chip leader at that stage should get 1st place. would any1 else except the chip leader agree to this? hell no.

stupid idea. its a far out there solution to a problem that barely exits

Live sat last night, twice someone presumably same guy had one ante andsomeone jammed for their stack with 42o k8o etc etc. That's on the direct bubble. I like the idea but atm its really hard to see a fix, hand for hand 5 from the bubble helped the stalling and was very well executed by td (Ryan) I think

there is no cheating going on..... if you stacked and going to win a seat, there is no reason to play any cards.  folding AA is often a better option if u are guaranteed a seat!!

a month ago I blew a seat calling an all in utg with AA v her 77 and she binked a 7 on the turn!! I was then short stacked with 55 runnbers left and bubbled a deepstack seat.

a cautionary tail!!

Not always true. If, say on the pure bubble, you're the chip leader and you've got such a lead over the next biggest stack that doubling up a shorter stack has no bearing on you winning a seat or not, then raising to prevent shorter stacks accumulating chips can have it's merits. Of course you could counter this by saying folding increases the opportunity for two shorter stacks to get their chips in against each other.

Had a big stack on my table last night - he chose to go all in every hand from about 55 players. He got called about six times and stole the blinds every other time.
Like you say it was his prerogative to play how he likes, I have done the same myself before.
He could have sat out and got a seat but chose to shove every hand - no right or wrong in my book we all pay the entry fee and can do as we wish.

and therein lies a big difference.

I fully agree that there is nothing wrong with this action, he is acting how "he" wishes to and making his decisions based purely on what he wants to do.  Just like the guy who gave Keys a walk in his example, he in my opinion is doing nothing wrong.

For me, the problem occurs when people openly coerce others in the chatbox into folding every hand on the bubble effectively immunising that particular table.  Playing as a team crosses the line of cheating IMO

which is of course the way this thread started...

that's why we all love this game.... we all play differently.  ;boltpp;