blonde poker forum

I think (potential) overlay might have an influence on stack value, so not just a simple 42/50 pricetag

i need some help, i wana know peoples views on what seats are worth based on there chip stacks taken through to day2. Im interested to know whats stacks are worth for staking purposes as im looking to sell
im looking at what a fiar price would be :)

i have 42k so not starting stack

if a seat is worth £2600 with 50k stack, how much would my ticket be worth in people opinions please..... no jokes lol :)

I think (potential) overlay might have an influence on stack value, so not just a simple 42/50 pricetag

I think (potential) overlay might have an influence on stack value, so not just a simple 42/50 pricetag

seen as only first place is guaranteed and this is likely to be chopped up amongst the final table i don't think this makes as much difference as if the whole event was guaranteed. (as the top up will only be about 200k not 2 million)

Just play the fkn thing as it should be played, that's what poker is about, too many players are looking into 'value' FFS. Who was it that said 'Get rich or die trying?'  ;whistle;

Agree, I think only a disaster would stop  Ross from getting past 1/2 way

you got a healthy stack..... think if you sell some action it should be based on the 3k euro ticket myself.

I got a tough decision - just made it through the online with 21k stack, not sure if this is any good to take to Wembley or should I try my other bullets???? tricky one as I might not get through with other goes?????

ye....know what u mean.... its a real tricky one.....got another bullet or two but the fear is I don't get through again!!!

 had a shoe opportunity on my very last hand which was the BB to a min raise UTG.  as I watched the short stack go out on another table I got timed out! a successful shove would put me on over 30k. gutted!!

you got a healthy stack..... think if you sell some action it should be based on the 3k euro ticket myself.

I got a tough decision - just made it through the online with 21k stack, not sure if this is any good to take to Wembley or should I try my other bullets???? tricky one as I might not get through with other goes?????

you got a healthy stack..... think if you sell some action it should be based on the 3k euro ticket myself.

I got a tough decision - just made it through the online with 21k stack, not sure if this is any good to take to Wembley or should I try my other bullets???? tricky one as I might not get through with other goes?????

Don't know much about selling stakes but surely the fact that payouts are based on day one entry costs and not day two makes it a completely different ball game

50% of the field get paid but you would have to make the last 10% of the day two field for any staker to break even

http://www.ispt-poker.co.uk/couk/payout/

I'd take the costs Ross and go for it - your stack is near as average as it could be. Gl

Ross, I would still say 20k is not a short stack at all with the blinds starting at 100/200 ( which is similar to any deepstacks that we usually play at DTD), ofcourse the cost of travel accommodation and any other logistics needed to be looked at.. But the opportunity like this dont come often... YEAHMAN!!!

Don't know much about selling stakes but surely the fact that payouts are based on day one entry costs and not day two makes it a completely different ball game

50% of the field get paid but you would have to make the last 10% of the day two field for any staker to break even

http://www.ispt-poker.co.uk/couk/payout/

I'd take the costs Ross and go for it - your stack is near as average as it could be. Gl

at last some sense itt

stack is worth nothing like 3k euro for that reason

overlay considerations can only be taken into accoutn for people that make the final too pretty much so v difficult to price

This is just a complete failure of logic.  It is like saying that my buy in to the Main Event isn't worth any where near $10k as I have to get in the top 10% to break even.  

The difference being in the wsop main event any backer at 1/1 would near enough double their money on a min cash of the last 10%

The ISPT for the same double based on a day two staking would require the player to get to the last 5%

Surely that makes it a different calculation?

Face Value of Seat: 2520 euro

I would suggest the seat would be worth more than this for a number reasons, the two main reasons being the 10% overlay plus the fact that having 8k less for a start would be no real detriment given the tournament is so deep/ slow structured.  We also have the benefit of the top 50% of places making a slight return on the investment.  A 10% increase for these factors doesnt seem to unreasonable to me.

Actual Value of Seat (+10%): 2750 euro

Then we have the issue of mark up.  This is a big field, well publicised tournament that will have a lot of soft players who have made it through the 300 euro comp.  We have to travel to London which will mean large overheads for the trip.  I dont think that 1.3 markup would be unreasonable.

Value of Seat + Markup (30%): 3575 euro

Coverted (XE): 3,575.00 EUR =  3,017.46 GBP  (Call it £3000 irl)

So I would sell as much as you want to @:

1% = £30
5% = £150
10% = £300

Ill read again later and see if I messed this up somewhere.

Why should stakers have to pay for the for a nice couple of nights in a hotel & train fare? What benefit is that to us? why not tip the taxi driver, have a bottle of champers and a stripper on us while you're at it..

Charging £3k for a day 2 is a joke, charging mark up to cover expenses is a joke, the way people over estimate their edge on the field is often a joke. 1% for a fiver is pushing it imo! A mincash would return like 1/5 of a stakers outlay, just horrific.

Will be interesting to see how well these staking threads do priced up like this..

hi milli,
i would not expect regular backers to go on me though, im happy to give my winnings to friends and people i trust. if im advised to mark up a little then i will if not then i wont :) simples. i understand ur argument milli however if it pays 50% of the field the gamble is far less than a standard comp paying only 10% of the field. i have watched and read the staking thread on here for a while now and some of that is very questionable but then again its not what i do so my knowledge is limited :)

id need to sell 80% if i find a strip club ;) lol jk

As for comments about place X paying out amount Y, absolutely irrelevant.



Forgetting the rights and wrongs of percentages this bit I just can't understand, surely anyone investing money in any venture/investment in any place in the world would want to know if you achieve x your investment will return y, thats just basic investment information - poker staking is obviously different then?

As for comments about place X paying out amount Y, absolutely irrelevant.

Forgetting the rights and wrongs of percentages this bit I just can't understand, surely anyone investing money in any venture/investment in any place in the world would want to know if you achieve x your investment will return y, thats just basic investment information - poker staking is obviously different then?

As I said before.  It doesnt matter where the money is, your edge remains the same. The MU is more about covering your travel costs / overheads in this case.  At 1.3 thats allowing yourself 700 euro (about £580) travel, accomodation and food expenses for up to five days or w/e it is.  And taking into account London prices I dont think this is at all unreasonable.

If you sell 50% at this rate, and you can do the trip for £290 or less, you would be essentially freerollin it.

I understand this thread to be from the point of view of the seller, not the person buying.  I was merely outlining a plan of what Ross should allow for the trip in terms of his own personal finances.

From the stakers point of view, buying this package at 30% seems completely reasonable.  A competent player should have wayyyy more than a 30% ROI in this tournament, therefore making it a profitable investment.  If you don't like it, don't buy.  Why should the player give up all of their edge for free?

As for comments about place X paying out amount Y, absolutely irrelevant.

So if someone sells directly into Day 2 nobody would expect them to sell at less than spot, obv.

But if someone plays day 1 and makes day 2 with 4/5ths of the stack you'd have if you bought directly into day 2 it's worth nowhere near the same amount ??

 ;carlocitrone;

Took me a second to figure out what side of the fence you were on.. :) although fair point Monda, but I doubt someone selling direct into day 2 would say I fancy getting a first class train, a few stellas, maybe a couple of ploughmans from the cart and a balla suite in the local premier so I am charging @1.3 nor do I think they would say you also you get 1/5 of your money back if I finish in the top 50% of players..

Does this same argument hold if they go in with a 1/3 or less of a day 2 direct buy in stack or less. (fwiw I am well aware this isn't the case for yeahman)  ;carlocitrone;

This isn't your average £3k comp.

Yeaman needs to think about this differently. It sounds as thou he is selling to his mates too and not on open forum and that this thread was for advice.

Loving the healthy debate but I bet yeahman is now more unsure than he was when he first asked the question

LOL.

I totally agree that people shouldn't increase there mark up to cover expenses, delusional self confidence is a much better reason :p

I was under the impression that it was closer to 80/90% of the field at wembley getting paid since each day one plays down to 10%?

but mondatoo isnt that what money goes on? i mean fair enough not saying it cos it would come across as being cheeky. is that what your saying?

It doesn't really matter what it's spent on, but selling at a mark up because you want backers to pay your expenses and you want a freeroll as opposed to selling at mark up due to the edge you think you have but your factoring in expenses in your decision to sell in the first place ofc are two very different things.

Exactly this.  If it were a staking thread you would say im selling x amount @ x mark up which offers fantastic value to investors.

What the horse spends the money on is of no concern to the investor!

Unless they spend it all before buying into the comp.  ;hide;

seen as only first place is guaranteed and this is likely to be chopped up amongst the final table i don't think this makes as much difference as if the whole event was guaranteed. (as the top up will only be about 200k not 2 million)

He probably needs a little bit of a mark up to buy some shavers if he's still sporting that big bushy beard  ;tk;

haha im growing it for the occasion gordan though i feel i dont have long enough. that beard took time, love and care, i only got 3weeks ;)

Fwiw, using your logic it's a 300 euro comp and you are selling your day 2 action

Some incredible failure of logic itt.

It's absolutely a 3k comp, even if you've sattyed in for 300. Which is effectively what you have done. And if you have 42k, then you have a slight equity disadvantage to the average player. But you're equity if you are a breakeven player will still be around 3k, the 8k difference is v minimal to your equity. Similarly the same player with 58k's equity is still around 3k, a little higher of course but not much.

All this "you need to make top 10% to breakeven" so it's not a 3k comp is nonsense. In most tournaments 85% of people get nothing at all.

The ROI for a good player in this comp will be enormous. It's like the WSOP main event, but with twice the runners and tons of people in on freerolls, 3euros, 30euros etc. It's going to be insane.

Markups could be easily justified as 2.0+.

it's all been said before about markups shouldnt be charged because of expenses, but they can of course be spent on what you like.

I'd really like to here Skolsuper and Mantis1's views on the whole debate

But you're equity if you are a breakeven player will still be around 3k 2.7k, the 8k difference is v minimal to your equity.  

Gotta fix that bit.... will let the 'you're' slide.

what i dont get about these stakes is if a player has a 30% edge over a field why any backer would back at 1.3 because then they are getting none of the value and all of the risk

surely if a player has a 30% edge then a backer needs too be buying at 1.1 so they get the same edge as the player has

if a player is selling at 30% he needs to have an edge around 100% on the field

what i dont get about these stakes is if a player has a 30% edge over a field why any backer would back at 1.3 because then they are getting none of the value and all of the risk

surely if a player has a 30% edge then a backer needs too be buying at 1.1 so they get the same edge as the player has

if a player is selling at 30% he needs to have an edge around 100% on the field

Fwiw, using your logic it's a 300 euro comp and you are selling your day 2 action

Very simple. its this. The £270 comp u played was a day 1 and not a sat. u now selling ur day 2 action and with min cash being only 500 odd this has to have a massive influence on any staking request. Gl hope u get what u want

YEAAAAAHMAN.

Well done again matey, Proper good to see you grind it through and really good talking to you other the last 2 weeks.
My personal view mate, is I would not sell any. 1.2, 1.5 even 2.0. Your pretty much freerolling, your a good player and have a shot at $1,000,000.

Reason is also, I feel for this comp better invested in other people. Swapping % with other people who make it through. There's alot of dead money out there (90% of the Day 1 money is in the pot), and investing it decent players maybe the best choice you can make.

yeahman!!
hey tommy it was good to see you there too,
yeah think the last 6months have been a eye opener and listening to a few poker players and watching some bad players has turned my brain into a sponge soaking it all up like a kid at school lol.
you was railing and observing the last few hours of saturday, so you kinda know how its going to play this weekend. Ul that you didnt make it through though after being in good position sort of mid way through. Guess luck is still required to win those flips.
yeah ive thought alot about my options and swopping 2%'s with other players there seems a great choice. i know you can make it through so i'll swop with you ;)

thks for your input tommy, respected :)

Agreed with Tommy . Why u need to sell when u r virtually free rolling into a €1 million winner cheque!
Don't mind u swapping with people but ehhhh why sell . Play it urself . U qualified !

There more equity in it if you trade several 5% with people who have got through to Wembley, then you got several changes to scoop a decent cash..... that's gotta be the best thing to do!!! do you really want to be giving away 40% of a potential £1m for a few hundred quid????

good luck in Wembley - see you there!!!! if I get through day 2 then I will be making inroads to share some % with other players who get through, preferable ones Ive played with or seen on the circuit!! thinks I would be happy to punt about 20% with 4 x 5% shares!! but this could well change later on!  even 5% of 1m seems sweet!! :)

yeah thats true. with it paying half the field too its a good way of getting some sort of return. yeah id only swop with trusted blondes or guys n gals ive met through playing at DTD.
im excited to see the plans/design of how its going to be on the pitch :)

GL Ross at Wembley.. You Playing Friday Day 2A/Saturday 2B? Hope to join you there mate.... binked another 300 token last night in the 5 seater 30 Euro FO... May the run good continue for long!!!!!!!!!!!!

yeahman!!!! thks vinod :) yeah hope you make it too, think 90% of the time i play at dtd your there :) so only fitting your at wembley. your playing last live day1? gl
yeah im playing day2b on saturday so excited and buzzing is understatement. ive never been wembley before so be nice to be there and also play at top level with some class players
book your hotel now vin!!! they got apat deepstack i think which also looks good, u gotta be there bro :)

Yes, playing the live day1 on Saturday 25th, cant make it on Sunday/ Monday as my cousins coming over to my place for the long weekend. If I get through, I will also play saturday 2B if I am through, even if not, as u say, will give a shot at APAT depstack..

Interesting thread! Have you decided on a price and ending up selling?

if a was not going to vegas buddy I would have had 2.5%off u

ty brookie :) , np im sure your 2.5% will be better invested on smashing a side event ;) yeahman!!!. Gl with vegas, let us know how you get on :)