blonde poker forum

If the field is always soft and most pros used this line , who's going to win then ? Is this line just to encourage themself that they are beating the field or just to let their stakers know that they are confident in that certain tourney ! No matter if that's a £100 or £1000 or even £5000 comp , I always hear this magic words . But who's winning at the end ? To me , if a player can out in £100 or £1000 or £5000 , defo it's not a soft field . So when a pros say soft field , is that mean we amateur don't need to enter the comp ?

This is not a dig but I am really annoy by players/pros saying thus all the time . U can call a players fish or loose but the field is soft ? Nahhhhhhhhh

Farmers say it too.

Is that field that is always soft where you left your straw man?

Never really thought about this, I guess it's just a 'go to' phrase that gets used a bit too much.  Like 'one time', innit.

It's called ego Frankie.

Give me a big pot against a pro anytime. At least they can fold. It's all about adjustment.

and after saying it they bust out without making any cash!

This for the win


#endthred

Think you have the game arse about face.

 The pros with the ego problems will always find the game that breaks them.  The pros that last are the ones who look for the games they can beat (ie the softer fields).   If you haven't got an external source of income (or haven't gut the chutzpah to charge 2.0 to your friends on Facebook), the vast majority of your games should be against fields that you consider softer than you on average.  Of course some people are really terrible at making this judgement!

And ofc you want to try and play your big pots in position vs the worst players, only ego would drive you to try and play your big pots against the better ones. 

And finally, I don't know a single person who considers all fields soft.  And you can always end up in a great spot on a great table in a tough tournament and a terrible one in a tournament that is otherwise soft.

And barring one person, we'll all go bust in the end.  If you have game selected well, it will be to a worse player more often than not, such is the beauty of the game. 

Doobs nailed it ^

I've been Doobed.

I agree with all that. Sometimes I feel I know where I am on later streets against a better player than a housewife over playing a pair of jacks in her first live event.

Doobs crushes thread.

But then that's no surprise as thread was joke soft.

rest

Chutzpah ITT. 

Generally speaking, I usually see the words "the field is so soft" straight after a ridiculously high mark-up.

Good reply . Thanks

You can't say live players are rubbish until they've at least played 50,000 hands

That's handy, because the data is irrelevant after a year.  So from this we can draw the conclusion that live players have no ascertainable skill level.

I used to think this until recently, where I started to notice more and more, the weird stuff that was going in.

I thought maybe I was just being harsh on people until today's GUKPT at Luton.

I'm all for having bad players in the game, but some of the stuff I saw today made feel quite awkward at the table.

If I could rewind the clock 24 hours, I would happily buy a % of 20 decent players I know at 2.0

I'm assuming this thread was started because Alex made a comment about the field being soft. I think he was being extremely kind to the field.

Disclaimer: I didn't make day 2 :(

Sick.  Might have to box off Tikay as my first go to guy got selling pieces.

And FWIW a) so many live comps are 'soft' but that is massively dependent on table draw.  Also a lot of my fellow peers have an over inflated sense of ego and aren't great with social skills thus they love to describe everything as soft to freeroll as much as possible.

Will say that GUKPT Luton was my fav ever 1k. Not just for the value but the venue, staff and that I was able to have conversations with most of my table mates due to a very small percentage of headphones, hoody, shades, some random poker site badge etc.  was very refreshing from my last 1k which was UKIPT London.

 

Farmer ITT...

"Look at those silly internet kids with their boomboxes and sweatshirts..."

Please pipe down old chap. No humour or opinions in any threads until you are sure you have 51% equity. You will make money in the long run.

a couple of points to consider;

1) R.E Frankie - "Should the amateurs just not bother entering?" - Remember one tournament, soft or not, is one tournament and anyone can win it - if you recall the last UKIPT held at DTD, a field which contained every big name "pro" in the UK (Jake, Perrins, Trickett, Toby +all) was taken down by Robert Baguley who I'm sure had any of the Chutzpah2.0 brigade would have seen on their opening table and thought made a "soft" table... (which brings me to point 2)

2) What exactly whats these weak players weak? in the make-up of a soft tournament ? Well usually its a combination of hindered technical understanding which leads ot some basic mistakes in certain spots, combined with a lack of control emotionally which = irrational decisions/big mistakes in tough situations. HOWEVER they also usually pretty smart people who despite their lack of technical poker understanding have a half decent feel for cards. They turn up, on the right day, in a good mood, get a bit lucky that the spots that get them into trouble aren't cropping up and all of a sudden this is not a "soft spot" you got a pretty fierce opponent. People think that a weaker player is always gonna be weak, and this is not true at all even pretty poor poker players are capable of hours/days of inspiration and good solid play. That's also part of the beauty of the game, imo.

People generally under-estimate people which I think isn't nessercarily a big mistake unless you're totally rigid with your judgements and not prepared to alter them.

We'll put lil Dave.

Every dog has his day.





I'm still waiting for mine :(

I like your post Dave, it really make me better . The only reasons I m really annoying is that a lot of players say that compnis soft , this company is soft . Look at the Ukipt recently in London , I think that is the toughest ukipt ever held before . I think the word soft is a bit to harsh but it's an opinion .
By the way Alex this is not a dig at u , I meant to ask this question ages ago and I accidentally read it on the gukpt Luton thread about how soft the field was .

I alway say Celtic is abit of shit stearer but he's funny ! Lol

Think a lot of the time its used in relation to the buy-in. E.g. if we can consider the ISPT Day2 field a true E3k then that was almost certainly softer then the majority of other E3k fields as these events are generally only found in big tournament festivals e.g. as EPT sides, where the pro to recreational player ratio will be pretty high, whereas in the ISPT, I would imagine it would be fairly low due to the large amont of satellite qualifiers.

If we say " the field is so soft " , does it meant we are better than the field or we can beat the field ?

It means you're better than the field, but you can't beat them because they don't know that.

For example in a EPT comp in London , there are about 600 players with 200 satelite qualifiers , 150 season pros , 150 players that sold share  and 50 rich businessman and etc . Who's the soft field here then ? The buyin is £5000.

I don't think it is likely to be a soft field.  I think those anticipating a soft field are probably making bad judgements.  It always makes me a smile when people refer to satellite qualifiers in EPTs, the people who come from them are likely very much in the same skills ballpark as most of the people selling action.

I don't know how many £1k events I have played, but enough to know when I am on a softer table than average.  I don't know what the real harm is, there probably wasn't a single person at my table who thought they were a weak player.   Most would just think I was talking about somebody else anyway.  As it was, they'd have been right given the way I blew my first bullet. 

There could have been people thinking of playing yesterday, so Alex put up some useful info for them.  This is the case even if the readers were weak players too, anyone put off playing a tournament because somebody has told them it looks weak isn't thinking very clearly.

As Dave said, even if it is a weaker field than average for a 1k, a big proportion of your exits are just going to be coolers and flips.  It really doesn't matter who thinks he is the best player in the circumstances.

I was sat at the final table of a 300 Euro event the other day.  It was my last table so I could just Sharkscope everybody.  Up to two days previously, one of the players had not had a cash above 20 Euros in 6 months play.  Then he had binked a few hundred Euros in a huge field 1 Euro MTT.  The day after he had played a 50 Euro tournament and I think he had finished 3rd for a 4 figure bink.  That day he had found himself sat at the final table of the biggest daily tournament on the site.  He had AJ when I decided KT was good enough to shove my 10 bigs.  Next morning I looked he had won the thing.  So in 3 days he had increased his biggest cash from 20 Euros to near 5K.  I just love that kind of thing.  Gives us all hope, even those of us who don't think we are the mark.

Great post Doobs .

Played some UKIPTS, 1ks, Monte Carlo's, ISPT, etc etc.

The toughest table I've had was my 1st table on day 1 of GPS Newcastle, and by quite a way the softest table I've ever been on in a comp over £50 was my last table of that same GPS Newcastle with less than 30 left in.

Cliffs: Poker is a stupid game.

I saw everything yday, people 10xing, someone limping every hand of the first level, people getting in 100 bigs on Js7s5d with QJ. I saw someone call 2 huge bets to hit a gutshot. These were losing plays in terms of $ev, but a few fellows making what in my opinion were losing plays were there to have a punt and a good time. There were also players there who were trader on some sort of stock/equity market tried hard to play their best. They had experience and concentrated on making the best play. Hopefully, I have more skill and make less mistakes then them, or they punt a touch towards the end of the day. Saying the field is soft is simply a way of saying I am confident I am a winner. I've described the 530o8 as soft on stars, this isn't quite true, it is a tough field with some soft spots whereas the Saturday 55 o8 is literally full of people that havent played the game before. Its pretty much a semantic issue/arrogance/overconfidence, but who thinks they are shit at their job at the end of the day.

Just spoken to Alex at DTD and he understand that I don't have a dig at him. Spoken to Richard to remove the thread . He will look I to it if it's offended anyone . It was meant to be a question which I wanted to ask ages ago .

Anyone offended must be thick or really thin-skinned Frankie :(

You haven't offended anyone mate.

We're adults, not babies, this isn't the daily mail, I don't need telling if I should be offended or not.

The thread is fine, Frankie, absolutely fine. Some good points been addressed, too. Some players will probably choose their words with more care in future when selling action, too.

If u said so TK . :-)

I'm offended Frankie.

Buy me a nandos next time and we will say no more. x

I buy u nandoos any time mate :-)

Much prefer the field is soft, rather then calling players fishes tbh

I dont find it dis-respectful at all, as people have said anyone can win a tourney and its just really to confirm it was the right decision to play a tourney.

How does saying it is soft confirm anything, except to the chap who says it?

As the reader, and potential buyer of his action, it says the complete opposite to me. I don't need him to tell me how soft he thinks it is, I will make that judgement.

Yep its just confirms to the player really, or backer it as a good decision. See you next week btw sir :)

 :kiss:

Gotta disagree on that last point Tikay, often the seller will want to make buyers aware of all the factors that he believes will make it soft.

A good proposal imo will say that it's a good value investment because of x, y and z. You might not be aware that the WSOPE event clashes with GUKPT Luton so that'll mean lots of the very good UK regs like Cody, Lewis etc won't be playing, making the field softer. There might have been a £20 mega satellite with 50 seats in the casino the night before.

These are factors that'll make it softer, so the horse would be wise to include those in his staking proposal to make the buyers who might not know, aware.

Yes, maybe, but I don't like the hard sell, & don't need telling that (say) an EPT contains a lot of satellite qualifiers or that half the world are over in Vegas for the WSOP.

I buy stuff I want to buy, rather than what folks want to sell.

I almost never buy action on our Staking Boards these days anyway, my regular sellers send me a PM or Text, no fluff, frills or bollox, "I'm playing, you want some?" & that's it. I'd buy a lot more on the Boards if all the "how can we lose?" stuff was not there.

We are all different though, some folks like the hard sell stuff I suppose.


I can win this

Oh wow, I'd better buy some then

Fully agree with this post. Personally think it's fine to list reasons why you think an edge can be had in a certain event. Obviously a player stating this each time he/she requests staking can become tiresome.

I have been seated at tables before and thought absolutely no value is here or on other tables around me and on other days I have thought this is unbelievable people just want to donate. The good conscientious player will look to play events that he feels he has an edge in and not wholly let ego dictate what should be played.

And as Tikay points out a player saying I should win this or anything else like that is pretty transparent/tiresome. They can sell it how they like Frankie you know who the good players are you back them  ;)

You really NEED the player who is seeking staking to point out "I think I can win this, it is a soft field, loads of sat quallies, & I play pretty good"?

I would assume all that is a given. The brush or car salesman does that, he tries to tell me his brushes or cars are best. Well he would, even if they were not. Surely we all know that?

I suppose we all react differently to sales pitches. Me, I don't listen at all, I want to be my own judge. But then I'm nearly as obdurate as Red-Dog.

All I need is this.

My name is.

I am fit for purpose in this because.

This is the Event

This is the cost & mark-up (or not).

For me, most of the rest is background noise.  I can honestly say that a chap telling me how wonderful (he thinks) he is & how "soft" the field will be will not make an iota of difference to me. It may even turn me off a bit, as I don't like being taken for a fool or deemed unable to be aware of basics. You wanna talk down to me? Then you can bugger right off. Like, now.

I just need to have a feel for his ability, his honesty (will he pay me, or pay me in a timely manner?), & do I have a level of respect for him (or her...).

If they are inclined to refer to other players as fish, idiots or fools, throw strops at the table, or regale me with bad beats, I don't buy anyway, they need to have a little respect for their opponents if they want me to buy.

Guess I'm a bit of a weirdo, but in this case, I am the Customer, so it's my rules, not theirs. Clearly, I can & do ignore the threads which don't fulfil my criteria, & they can ignore me, too. That's cool.

More years ago than I care to remember, I learned that the best selling technique was, "It's over there, go and have a look at it". This was best said whilst affecting an "I'm not really sure I want to sell it attitude".

BOOM

A remarkably accurate business coaching strategy maxim is that, if you want your staff to change, you can't tell them to change; you must ask them to choose how to change.

In plain English, "We need you to deliver an increased output of 10%" is likely to be met with cynicism and resistance, where "We need you to tell us how we can be more efficient and more effective" brings people in.

In sales, the customer/client/mark must believe they are making their own, informed decision.

THAT's what I'm talking 'bout.......


(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/tikay2/NEW%20ALBUM/ENTERPRISE1_zps62e3bf41.jpg) (http://s1147.photobucket.com/user/tikay2/media/NEW%20ALBUM/ENTERPRISE1_zps62e3bf41.jpg.html)

Interesting, cos I played for the first time at Luton this Friday, and was quite 'offended' (I dont do offended but cant think of another word to fit) that a couple of guys on my cash table butted in on a conversation I was having with a recent Dtd torn winnner. 'Oh Dtd is so soft its not like Luton', etc, etc.
Ok big ego, if it is so soft how come your not playing all your poker there? and winning?

I like it when a player says field is soft and they've never played it before. Trying to attempt to justify a mark up.

Then they don't cash and say how unlucky they was.

Personal favourite of mine.

Everywhere is soft apparently.

I'd like staking for a local £20 freezeout tonight please Aaron. I've never played this particular tournament but I've played other tournaments of a similar buyin in this casino and others nearby, and I feel they were "soft", so I can only assume that the fields will be of a similar standard and I'd be good value at 1.2 markup.

However I might lose with aces allin pre or some other such 'unlucky' coup so there is no guarantee I will cash.

1.2 is a bit pricey. But go on then, i'll take 10%

call

FYP

Sorry, couldn't resist.  

Frankie – Poker players make assumptions that’s all.  It’s just an assumption as one poker player would find it very difficult to judge the poker that’s being played on every table in any particular tournament

Tikay – Agree with the subjective nature of your preference, but do note, you’re a seasoned buyer; other not so seasoned buyers sometimes want “the dream” not the product.

Blueace – I’ve heard this about most card rooms in the U.K and the U.S again people make judgments with very limited knowledge and you want them to think your card room is soft because it brings in more players.

On a side note, people should be able to express themselves and opinions without the fear of being reprimanded by the “PC” police, I know Frankie was just asking a question so this is not by any means directed at him, but there are people on the forum who make a fuss over little throwaway remarks made by diarist. If I read one of the diaries on this forum I want hear an uncensored account of the diarists views, not some censored “trying not to offend” diluted account of their recent trip to Uni…

I strongly disagree with this.  Not interested in hearing about a trip to bowl uni.

hahahahaha Brilliant..  rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao

I think I better stop writing/talking if I can . A question became a controversy !! SO SICK

SO SICK

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_4HdD6EQh4

Thread is quite in keeping with the recent hud discussions and seems to highlight the ill feeling/resentment towards pros.

I think a lot of reactions are ott tbh. Professionals are playing for a living which generally makes them winners and better players than the norm and certainly far better than your largely amateur live tournament fields so why wouldnt they describe a field as soft? It doesnt seem to me to be insulting or offensive, usually just an accurate statement.

Its a bit boring that pros get knocked a lot lately. Yes some pros dont conduct themselves perfectly but that happens in all fields and professions. Amateurs behave worse overrall and its not even close.

Interesting discussion frankie. My post wasnt a slight at you btw - hope it didnt come across as one

Good post (even though I'm slightly more in agreement with the opposing view)

Thing that I find the strangest is pros playing day 1a of a tournament (especially one that has a guarantee) and wanting to spread the word about what a great field it is to other pros. You don't really get cash game players tweeting "what an awesome cash table at XYZ, come get it or miss out" kind of thing

My bad :/

Whats wrong with 1A's?

Probably not playing their poker at dtd, because it's almost two hours away.

Anyway, my point in posting is to say that anyone who thinks the standard at Luton is better than that at dtd, needs to get out a bit more.

Pros helping pros out seems like a nice thing to me.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPge_0lea3o

If poker comp are only design for PROS only , I bet there will be not many pros will survived in poker industry . So pros helping pros will become pros stacking pros .

Whatever happened to getting it quietly?

I am referring to the concept.

Harder to sell action at inflated mark ups I guess :)

Completely the opposite. Bigger the tournaments more fish want to play them so they remain soft.

As an aside this g'teed tournament stuff, i see a lot of pros trying to be clever and keeping overlays quiet. This is the most backward/short term thinking it really grates me.

If i run a casino and make a ballsy g'tee and then hear people are running about keeping it quiet do you think i will do the same again? No. We should run about drumming up punters so next time the g'tee is even bigger.

Good luck , hope when some pros spread the rumours out , u can come and win it !!

you prolly don't know about the guys getting it quietly...

YOU SEE? :p

Anyone running about to keep anything quiet seems to be going the wrong way about things completely

lolol was thinking exactly that!!

I would go further than this. Think the recent focus on HUDs and Multi-tabling, aswell as other criticisms of pros are a result of the contraction in the poker economy. Other symptoms include the attacks on mid-level pros charging high MU in forums, the recent hysteria surrounding allegations of American pros ghosting and using VPN's and tougher and less reasonable staking deals being imposed on horses. These incidence are all qualitatively different but are all a result of the worsening financial situation.

As the economy worsens, edges get smaller and downswings more prolonged we may see different segments or class fragments within the community turning on each other. Either out of frustration or as a way of regaining edges. If high-stakes MTT's are having a tough time then it's a perhaps understandable reaction that they turn on mid-level pros and attack their ability to play above their bank rolls in a EPT's and the like and diminish elite pros edges. It's likely that a lot of recreational players in the tougher climate are having a tough time sustaining poker as a break-even, or slightly profitable hobby so again they go after the edges pros have with software etc. There are many other examples we could outline. 

What's important is that as a community we don't allow the bonds of solidarity between us entirely dissolve. If anything we should be looking as community to get a little bit more back from the people that provide the platform for us to play now that times are tougher. Rakeback, bonuses, lowered rake etc will only come about if as a community we are united in demanding them. 

I should also say that dealers and floor staff are also part of our community. Again we hear a lot of talk about not tipping, resentment at money taken from prize-pools to pay staff and frustration at poor standards. Once again this is understandable that pros with increasingly vulnerable bank-rolls should begin to take out their frustration on another segment of there community.

This is something that we must avoid doing. If anything we should be watching vigilantly as it's likely that in tougher times gaming-providers will seek to drive down staff wages, job security and eat into there tips. As players there should be a sense of solidarity with other workers in the industry and we must be vocal in our support of good-levels of pay and as generous as we can be in the matter of tipping. 

Very good posts Sammy.

Point 2 here is something a lot of people forget and something that really does need to be heeded. Good stuff.

A guy in Luton who was having a great time, turned and said to me, "How many do you have? 15k? Better get a move on"

It was level 4 or 5 :)

Great posts Mr.Squid.

Thought this was an apt thread for my first post

In both my full and part time professions I encounter some 'soft fields'. But in neither one do I broadcast the fact so everyone can come and spoil it.  If possible I don't want people driving in a soft field the same as I don't really want a soft cash game (my main battle ground) to be overrun by better players.

STILL DONT UNDERSTAND TILL TODAY !! # FREAKING CLUELESS

Seems quite simple to me Frankie,  they state that the field is "soft" to give the impression that they, the big "pro" are at a considerable advantage due to their much higher skillset, and therefore are have a much better chance of winning/cashing during the tournament.

This can then lead to them wanting to charge a higher markup as the backer is getting much better odds on their investment.

Doesn't stop a 1% river card coming in for a "fish" who has satallited in and is contributing to the softness though. But thats a different thread really

Still don't get it . If the field is easy , why sell and not invest  the lots by themself ? They don't have to share the cake if they knew they can beat the field . Still don't get it ! #CLUELESS

Frankie, by your answer it shows you do get it... Most people seeking staking arent doing it because they feel they are inferior to the field. They are doing it because they dont have the roll, or dont want to invest the amount required due to external factors, or are realistic as to their true odds of beating the field/variance.

So what they trying to do is influence the staker that the field is beatable by saying that ? Ok got u ! Thanks

As someone who does sell quite a bit of action, although granted usually only at a small mark up, I sell to protect my bankroll.  Although I may have 25/50/100 buy ins for certain live tournaments, by selling say 50% I can, as sean said, reduce my variance and have twice the number of shots.  I dont think after the first couple of packages I tried to justify my staking threads with field is so soft (in before someone snaps me off with me some quotes) but it's just a way of telling any potential investors you feel like you're +ev in the field.

It's up to the investor to then decide if they agree with you or not.

its marketing
better than saying tough field and then asking for mark up