blonde poker forum

Girlfriend pointed me to this article in the Mail today. Anybody seen it?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2935891/Four-kind-Family-quit-jobs-poker-professionals-claim-key-success-mathematical-formula.html

One shipped a DTD event so perhaps ppl know/recognise him?

I have mixed feelings about it tbh…

Their outlandish claim they have a poker formula is clear BS. I can only hope they’re just trying to explain that skill is involved in the game to ppl that don't get it?

Good for them though. Nice to see a success story, and definitely nice to see some coverage to wider audiences.

Stay tuned for the comments section. Undoubtedly some people will write some utter nonsense, just like they have done in other articles I’ve seen.

aka 'ginger nerd' from previous thread!  No mention of his luck box skills in the article!  B'ham low stakes live regs who have binked a few bigger comps when staked by pro gambler.  Pretty sure they haven't seen much of the £75k won.  Why would you sell your story to the local press so everyone knows your business locally when you haven't actually won as much as it would appear to laymen who then think you are loaded?  Then the DM pick the story up.  Marv.  Comical article.

It's just media coverage of it. Think it says in the article that he beat "328 of the finest players in the country to win the deepstack"

No comment.

the family is well known in Midlands poker. Michelle and Richard have posted on here, all have played the local and national scene at times in the last few years

Arboy is fuming lol.   let them have their glory, move on.

Just bored on a quiet Monday posting in between dog races on betfair.  Nothing wrong with adding a bit of balance to the article for the benefit of the OP.

Just think arboy, if you'd won that 70/30 vs him this could've been you in the DM! Could've got a nice new car with the winnings too...

Haha, funny reaction.

You might think it was luck Arrboy, but it seems it was ctually a MATHEMATICAL FORUMLA!!!!!

They're a nice family. It's all a bit tongue in cheek, but they're running great at the moment and that's kind of fun for an article or two.

The poker community will take the article with a pinch of salt, the family get a nice bit of publicity and the DM will ensure comedy gold with the comments below the article.

Hard to see who loses, really.

No offense to Richard - but should definitely point out the ridiculous number of times that he won the flips when down 20/80 or 30/70. He did play like a chiplead should do at the FT ( No flops- All in every hand :))

I'll keep an eye out for that golden ace being snuck into the deck next time.

Can't help but feel a bit sorry for them reading that!

The photo's are pretty amazing though!

Story also in the Daily Mirror. Amazing what guff tabloids will print on quiet days.

Poker in the general Media is often cringe worthily bad. Even more responsible papers are guilty. This is hilarious:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jan/08/online-poker-bot-cepheus-flaw

Does the fact that this family has featured in 2 newspapers indicate they’ve contacted papers for coverage themselves?

I find that a little odd if that’s the case….

I think the article I saw was in their local newspaper. Don't know if it they select certain stories which make the national media

Do you think they were paid for appearing in that article?

If not, why on earth would they allow it?

Maybe they were proud of what they had achieved as a family?

Yeah I first saw a link to it on the Birmingham mail website so assume the nationals picked it up.

Bit of harmless fun.  We all know the reality of it but any good stories for poker should be encouraged.

When I was still working my way up the levels, my nan really didn't approve of my choice of career. 

She saw this In a local paper and it was the only time that she was interested in what I actually did and showed any positive reactions to poker. She passed away a few months later so it's a nice memory for me.

Some people just need poker to be in a more traditional media setting to give it validity. 

http://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/8899651.display/ (http://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/8899651.display/)

I'd be interested to know how much of th £75k they have won since November is actual profit, and how much they got of it etc.

They could be the worlds greatest poker family after the Brunson's or 4 of the stone biggest punters in the UK.

Very likely somewhere in between.

Great to see some actual decent press coverage which doesn't compare poker to blackjack, roulette or a mystery game involving cards not known in local casinos but which will definitely absolutely make you millions if you have a 'system'.

For the daily mail, that's a very accurate article!

It'll be followed up by an article about a foreigner winning a tournament, so they can have a go at immigrants coming over here and taking our poker winnings.

Arb hacked your account?

:D

How much have they lost though

Just read the article, what is it that you find hilarious? Nothing particularly controversial from what I can see.

Cepheus is a bot which is the closest known approximation to a Nash Equilibrium out there. It's unbeatable basically.

The "poker journalist" talks about 400(!!!!!!!!!!) hands he played against this bot, and mentions that he stopped bluffing to exploit it.

It's nonsense basically. Thoroughly misleading and lazy journalism.

:)

Fish win them all the time  ;fishing;

looks like he was given about 500 words by the Guardian so not a lot of room for a detailed piece. He makes the point the sample is too small and suggests it may be possible to exploit it don't see a lot to get upset about imo.

Maybe cus they thought it was cool?

Years back I was in the nottingham post (page 3 too!) with pic and full article because I won a PCA package with stars. Stars called me and asked me to do it (for PR reasons on their behalf) and I thought fuck yeah!!!

Never been in a paper in my life before that, so seemed pretty cool to show my family and mates at the time, they sent a pro photographer round and did the full bullshit  :)

So yes a bit of ego and a bit of cool maybe?  8)

If you don't know what you are saying is cobblers then why would it bother you lol. Pretty nice to get yourself in the nationals if your into that sort of thing, I couldn't think of much worse personally.

Morning Dan,

"Nonsense", "misleading", "lazy journalism"?

That seems a little unfair to me.

The Author had half a day to "test" the theory, & a few hundred words.

He regularly gets poker articles with a positive spin into the mainstream Media, which seems a good thing to me. He is an experienced poker player, & tries to promote poker for the better in these articles. Any subject with a positive spin which gets poker into the mainstream media is a good thing, imo. 

Here is a previous article by Chris.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/25/poker-female-based-boom-victoria-coren-mitchell

Chris is not a Pro poker player, & did not claim to be. I know him well, & I'd say he was a break-even poker enthiusiast.

He makes his living from writing about poker. He currently Blogs & Updates for PokerStars, previously he did it for Full Tilt I believe, & he reports for PokerNews every year from the WSOP.

Prior to that, he was the "Live Updater" for blonde, for whom he has made over 22,000 Posts, which is a Top 15 Poster on blonde. (See "No Flops Homer").   

I'm not here to fly the flag for him, but I think your summing up of his piece was rather harsh. It's not easy to get decent poker Content into the Mainstream, & we need more people like Chris to promote poker to a wider audience. Poker's future is not about what we as poker players think - it's about those who have yet to play our wonderful game. They are the ones that matter, that we need to reach out to.   

I'm struggling to think of many poker players - Queen Vicky excepted - who can get positive poker articles into the mainstream media. I think he should be applauded for doing so.

How do you know?

Have you studied it's programming? It's algorithms? (for example)

EDIT: and if you have - what are your qualifications to be able to judge it?

Hi,

Ok we ll I'm happy to apologise and defer to your judgement. Sorry.

I'll accept it's harsh.

MW, I haven't personally studies it's algorithms precisley because I'm not qualified to judge it. That said, I've read about the bot, and have listened to it's creators on the Thinking Poker Podcast. Their claims to have (very very nearly) solved the game are not refuted by those who are most qualified to judge, both in the poker world and the maths world.

If the above is true, which is what I was assuming when I commented on the aticle, then the article is somewhat incorrect. If it's a Nash equilibrium, then stopping to bluff is not exploiting it, for example. Iirc, Ike tweeted as much about it (which is actually what brought it to my attention).

On reflection perhaps I didn't consider the target audience enough, I'm certainly no journalist.

I certainly don't want to make enemies, and will apologise again for using some rather harsh descriptors. Especially if it's a guy who is known in this community. :)

I'd much rather focus my time on discovering the secret maths forumla to win multiple 80/20's on a DTD FT. ;)

Thanks Dan.

We must remember it was Heads Up LIMIT Poker, not a game which exercises us too much in the UK.

It would be a stretch to imagine it could do that same thing in, say, PL or NL Texas MTT's.

I guess my reply sounded like I was defending "one of our own", even though he has not posted on blonde for 18 months, but I just think he is generally the sort of person who deserves encouraging, as we see so little positive poker Content in the wider media, & I'd like to see more, not less.

Plus he has a really good beard.

Quick PS, Dan.

Chris just tweeted this.....


"....only had 3.5 hours between getting assignment and deadline (inc playing hands). Parts also got cut......"

The Media works in peculiar ways, & so things do not always appear exactly as intended.

It's a big subject to test, & write about, in 3.5 hours.

Haha, was about to post exactly the same!

:D

It was the certainty which grated slightly.

In practice it's entirely possible that Cepheus is actually unbeatable. But for it to be unbeatable in theory would mean that they'd solved the game - rather than partially solved it, which seems to be what they've done. There are a number of times where poker players use mathematical terms but not quite in the same way that mathematicians do - variance is the most annoying one (a lot of poker players just use it as a synonym for luck)

This is a good article about Cepheus
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/game-theorists-crack-poker/

Well that's sorted it, the case rests.

Again, sorry. Especially if author is lurikng.

MW: So far as I know, it's beatable by 0.01bb/100. The podcast is a good one  to listen to if you take an interest. (And a great podcast if you like poker in general. They've had some great UK guests as well in the past (Sam Grafton, Nick Wealthall) who all have interesting things to say. )

And definitely agreed that HU Limit is far from exciting. We have nothing to fear for a long time yet as poker players. NLHE is vastly more complex and won't "die" for a long time. CErtainly longer than some nay-sayers like to say. :)

Ha! No, he's not lurking.

He is probably somewhere overseas, doing 'Stars stuff I imagine. And trimming his beard.

Leeds lad, I believe, so he deserves a break. 

If that's where he is and what he's doing, then the joke is firmly on me!

Not sure about the negative and sarcastic responses on here.... I understand that they may or may not have made themselves out to be something that they are not and all, But fair play to them for getting some media coverage on the game.

And we all know how much newspapers always like to report on things in a way which make people seem like a Dick!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b050xdzr#auto

1hr 40min 40sec, follow on from this story!

Oh my days. Adrian Chiles. Was facepalming the entire way through. Not because of the family, but his questions and responses. CRINGE.

ha well in fairness, probably a standard persons responses if they have no clue about poker i guess. not sure how they have ended up on 5 live!

Personally I think the article is incredibly irresponsible.

Find the magic formula, cash a couple tournaments, have the whole family quit their job. They make it sound so easy I can imagine people handing in their notice Monday after chopping the £50 freeze out on the saturday

Fully agree. Only thing missing in the article is the home address. And those who didn't succeeded in Di Maria's house would be very happy. :D

On serious note, maybe intentions were good, but result is nothing more that some amateur bragging without really having a lot to brag about.

The first story is amazing! I can't believe that they thought it would be a good idea - the family I mean

So...let me get this straight...

a while back Arrboy berates a "nerdy ginger kid" on a blonde thread, and we all (quite rightly - you should know better mark!!) give him a bit of shit about it...

a few months later the "nerdy ginger kid" is in the daily mail on the merit of his poker accomplishments!!

My days, what a fantastic thing!!

Will be buying all the tabloids tomorrow and looking forward to the article about the guy who put that brutal equity beat on Alex all those years ago, or one of those lucky young kids who made a flush against Belton with 83suited  rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao

r.e. the Chris Hall article on the poker bot, I know Chris he lives near me up here, very nice lad. Yeh the article is a bit mislead in that he hasn't really grasped the idea of Game-Theory-Optimal play in his analysis, if he'd published the article for RunItOnce, or even here on blonde then I'd be the first to tell him it was a bad article, but it wasn't for that format, it was for the guardian, it was well written, nicely layed out and will read very well for that readership.

Chris' main objective is to get more writing work from the guardian, not to educate people on the intricacies on Optimal Game Theory Poker - you wanna know about that ask Stu "Honeybadger" Barnett he'll right you an article 3x the length of the entire guardian and it will be faultless. I'd lose interest 5% into it though and if it won't hold my interest then I'd imagine 99% of the guardian readership wont even bother with it!

Also- and I doubt this was Chris' objective entirely but an article in a mainstream newspaper about how some computer genius' in the U.S have "solved" poker is going to do us no favors in this industry - I just hope every article on this bot in the mainstream press reads exactly the same.

I was told at the casino in Birmingham today that the family has a sponsorship deal from Stars for the next UKIPT. I have no idea what this means, perhaps the person misunderstood and they just won a satellite, perhaps they claim to have a deal, perhaps they actually do???!

Arrboy really would be in bits then.

I know both Michelle and Matthew and they are both nice people so good luck to them I say. Jonny Hewston isn't their PR Manager by any chance is he ?😄

Also Matt seems to have lost a lot of weight but haven't see him for a few years

To summarise:  Dave thinks Stu's posts are too long and boring.

;)

Superbly clifnoted boshi
:-D

Think the boys came across quite grounded and level headed in this interview. Chiles his usual self whatever that may be.

I agree omm.

I think the whole article is good,  it's a feel good story.  Anything printed that is about people winning and is relatively humble rather than losing thier house from gambling is good imo

Marvellous.

I tried to listen to the radio interview linkie, but had to stop after about two minutes. Could not take it any more. Not because of the guys being interviewed who seemed nice and talked sense, but because the interviewer was making me squirm in my chair. Any more cringeworthy?

tl;dr

If Matt Harris and Carla Goddard had a baby, it would look like Boshi's avatar.

This was the point I was trying to make. Adrian Chiles is the nut worst.

The "kids" did nothing wrong imo, nor did they did anything wrong in the article. The DM made a point about this formula and made it sound like they were claiming to have a magic formula for solving poker, but at no point did they claim this. They simply said they had a Maths background and they used mathematics in how they played poker. The mail then spin that into whatever they want.

They didn't come across anything worse than naive in the interview. I'm sure if I was interviewed by a national paper when I was just starting out I would've come across a hell of a lot worse!

Everybody knows the papers will put whatever spin they want to on a story to make it sound more interesting. People thinking there is a secret formula that the lads invented is miles better a story than they have learnt maths, I mean who wants to learn Maths this day and age.

think i just fell off my chair reading this. hahahahaha

 rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao

I fell ill reading it.

The amazing Carla got ruffled again on the cash last night, Why oh Why does she react the way she does???

Because she wouldn't be The Amazing Carla if she didn't.

DEfinitely agree with this Alex.

My initial reaction was that the formula claim was ridiculous! But then I since concluded this was just a spin from the Mail. That's especially clear after listening to the radio link.

It's a source of frustration for me that poker is so misunderstood, but I think it's just something we have to live with, whether its our family, employers or anything else.