blonde poker forum

Hi

In January I was approached by redarmi to invest in his sports betting bankroll. He told me how he had a house etc to pay for and he would be looking for backing until he was back on his own two feet. I knew little about sports betting but had made a list on my diary about wanting to make investments (why he messaged me)

He was looking for £30k and I asked arbboy who had known him for a long time and said he was "100% good for the money" and he would also get involved.

I was perhaps a little naive here, but it's tough when there's no sharkscope for sports betting. He was however a columnist and staff member at betting emporium so assumed he knew what he was doing and was well up to date with everything.

I sent the money and off we go. We were promised regular updates and although I didn't chase up on them they were anything but regular.

After a long time of no communication I sent multiple emails and then finally received this email.

Hi guys,

Unfortunately, a combination of the time pressures of my new role and some issues with bad debt mean that I am going to have to stop the stake.  Because I can't get on in my own name I have to trust other people to help me getting the bets on and two of them are not currently paying me and holding almst 20k between.  One of them is a fairly well known poker player and I am fairly confident that in the medium term he will pay me but the other is a female friend of a friend and isn't responding  to any communication at all.  I feel fairly stupid to have not followed my own rules to minimise this kind of situation and am going to take full responsibility for paying everyone back whilst I continue to chase these two but obviously I don't have those kind of funds at hand so that may take me some time.  In the meantime I am going close off the remaining loose ends and will return those funds I do have hopefully by the end of this month.

I think the best way to proceed is to sort out the remaining money and then when I send that towards the end of the month I will reassess where we are in terms of the bad debt and if neccesary will arrange a payment plan with you all individually then.

Finally, I am aware that Mark and Jon vouched for me with this and feel as though I have let them down a bit and hope you won't let it reflect badly on them.

Kind regards,

Stuart


I was very, very pissed off that the stake money was going to a "female friend of a friend" to put bets on. If I had ever known it would be remotely like this I would obviously never have invested in this. The "rest of the money" was also not sent by the end of the month.

I posted in this thread to try and get him to be better with communication as he was ignoring multiple emails that I sent. Almost 2 minutes after I posted he emailed me.

Communication was very poor, one of the reasons I invested here was because he had previously been a manager at a really big company and assumed he was older and wiser than poker players and would be able to handle everything professionally.

After again insisting I would post "tomorrow" he decided to send me around half of the money that was owed. He has told me multiple times since he would send the money owed but I think he is just sending money to me initially to keep me quiet.

I was messaging arbboy a lot after I found out and he was very apologetic about it all and I 100% don't think he is in any way shape or form involved or even responsible and he spent a lot of time replying to me. I tried a lot to get him to post it on blonde but he was (perhaps reasonably) very reluctant. I tried to make skype groups multiple times to make communication better, but again he didn't want to do that.

I wrote to him a couple times more and haven't heard back anything since June 16th. I received one email from Stu wishing me good luck in the PLO.

Arbboy suggested to me that it could potentially have been a big scam knowing he would get really good credit and essentially a 0% interest loan whilst he was under it.

I kinda forgot about it all (was on back of my mind whilst playing WSOP) but received this email this morning.

Hi Pads,

You don't know me but I'm a regular poster on TFT. I staked Redarmi as I believe you did. I haven't heard from him or received any money and he hasn't replied to my latest email. I wonder if you would be prepared to let me know if you have received any money ?
I'm a little concerned that others have been paid back and I haven't.



I felt bad that I was potentially paid out some money because I was going to be vocal. That's definitely not the right way to go about it, everybody should be paid back equally and I'm happy to share out what was paid to me with others who haven't been paid.

As far as I know (Last communication with Arbboy + pm) there is potentially still over £25,000+ which hasn't been paid back.

I was reluctant to post this because of "the old school" mentality of gambling. But to me, growing men should take bigger responsibilities and act way more professional here.

I'm not sure what I want to achieve by posting this, but maybe others who were involved could come here and post because it was all relatively secretive and emails were sent individually I have no idea of how many people were involved. Who knows maybe he received 300% the investment. I want everything to be on the table moving forward.

No idea if I'm going to come across bad posting this but I feel that I should.

oh my.  Suppose Stu only has himself to blame for the shit finally hitting the fan on here.  He has been given far too much time by numerous people to sort this out and has behaved like a total c*nt from start to finish on the whole operation.  I have effectively lost contact with him as a friend as well over this.  I feel massively embarrassed about the whole thing because over 75% of the investment came via my word about him being '100% good' for the money.  I really didn't want this to end like this but i understand Pads posting because the WSOP has effectively given Stu a month's grace (on top of the 3 months he has already have) to sort it because over 50% of the total investment have their mind's otherwise engaged in vegas  but still nothing is forthcoming.  It has been comical bullshit excuse after excuse made by Stu all to people who are pro's and won't buy these comical excuses yet he has kept coming out with them week after week month after month.  The rapid response to demanding emails has been present from my end which makes me think he wants to shush this up all along and 'buy time'.  Anyone who hasn't been demanding literally hasn't received any correspondence and/or money repaid whereas anyone who has 'kicked off' has received a quick email response and more bullshit to try and buy time and stop them going public.

Just to clarify my position he also owes me a substantial 4 figure sum regarding this so i am involved personally financially as well as putting my reputation on the line to numerous industry pro's to recommend him to them investment wise.

I have said to pads from the start i would rather keep this private but i think the time has come for this to be exposed in public given it was only ever exposed in the first place 3 months ago and the original stu email sent because i basically demanded to know wtf was going on with our £30k as the betting volume being invested was beyond a joke.  I am 1000% convinced Stu has bascially used and abused his goodwill with me and my contacts to basically get a £30k interest free loan for 6 months and counting.  The stories he has come out with make no sense at all combined with the terrible punting volume he put into the stake at the start.

I am really sorry it has come to this for all those involved who trusted my opinion on Stu who i have known for over 10 years and previously classed as someone in the top 5 of people i would trust financially.

His silence on blonde in the last 3 months sums it up for me.  I have given him many opportunities to open up to me and tell me the truth and what is going on in his personal life but he has declined on every opportunity and kept to the bullshit of his story which makes no sense.  I seriously hope he is ok personally because for him to do this having just got a new position at poker stars sports betting operation (i assume that wasn't bullshit as well) and risk his lifetime rep in the game for £30k something serious must have happened short term for him to do this having known him reasonably well for over 10 years.

There is only so long you can sit and listen to bullshit and wait for the money before you have to go down other channels like Pads has.  I totally understand his thinking.

As an aside i would appreciate it if anyone else has been 'tapped up' for 'investment' so we know if others are in the same boat as we are.

Arbboy,

Have you received any money back ?

Has the well known poker player confirmed that he owes Stu money and if so is he intending to pay it back ?

I received a token £500 from him to basically buy him time when i found out that someone had paid him money which he was owed and he couldn't back out of not paying me.  If i hadn't approached him i wouldn't have received a penny 100%.  I am getting really sick of the whole thing tbh.

This was the email on 12 June

Just sent you a monkey.  Was over overdraft limit so some got chewed up but will still send some more in 7-10 days.

Nothing has been received since and i haven't heard from him via any medium since this date even though more money was promised in a week as above and another email has been sent to everyone asking for iban numbers to send cash but since then i still haven't received any more cash.

The bottom line is even if the £12k was 'stolen' and the money owed from a poker player was £3k there is still at least £10k which he has either a) blown and b) is sitting on.  Why hasn't that £10k been paid back even with the other bullshit excuses he is using.  There is still at least £10k which should be sitting in his account in cash for 6 months which is ours if he hasn't been up to no good yet there hasn't been a penny of that paid back and/or explained as to it's whereabouts.

This is a token amount in relation to the overall stake and has no bearing on where the reminding money is imo which should have been repaid months ago.  This is why i am 100% convinced we have just been used as an interest free loan for 7 months as if the stake was for real there would be over £10k in cash sitting in his account that he could snap repay.  The fact he can't/won't means he is desperate for cash and/or has blown it punting.  There is no other excuse which makes sense.

Stu has got a good job now hasn't he?

Surely he can pay a decent chunk back every month from his wages?

Not ideal of course, but better than nothing.

That's not the point.  A detailed explanation of where the £30k has gone would be appreciated.  It is our money we gave to him to provide a return not an interest free loan for him to pay back at his leisure.

What's the point in humiliating him?

The money has obviously gone, you should be most concerned about getting it back (unless he's lost on the stake - which he would have told you about by now, so I'm assuming that isn't where it has gone) shouldn't you?

Not defending Stu in any shape or form btw.

Just seems like humiliating him is not the way this is going to get resolved.

What about humiliating me to several major players in the game and using my reputation to get the £30k in the first place when he never had any intention for using it for the stated purpose.  He get's caught with his hands in the cookie jar and still can't admit what has happened with it when asked numerous times by a guy he considers a 'good friend'.  

What would you suggest after waiting patiently for 4 months and counting and getting nothing back at all but bullshit after bullshit excuse?  I given him numerous opportunities to open up to me privately and admit what has gone on but he contiunes with the bullshit excuses which don't add up and leave £10k or more which should be sitting in his bank if his stories are true.  Yet he has no money to pay back.  There is only so much bullshit pads and the rest of us can listen to.

If he had come out and said 'listen mark i have punted the whole lot off you will all get paid back in time' most of us would be fuming but probably be like fair enough.  If he said 'look i was in a massive hole personally with the family and needed £30k and panicked you will all get the money back' etc etc but nothing like that has happened.  Everyone knows this has happened but he keeps talking about £12k being stolen from a friend of a friend.  The bottom line there should still be £10k sitting in his bank doing nothing if his story is true so we know its all lies otherwise just pay back the £10k that is sitting in your account which isn't yours.

True. You have every right to be pissed off.

He asked if I was interested. I'd be very pissed off if I had.

But, I don't think this is the right way of getting your money. If he sent you a monkey when he had a lot more in his hands, he's obviously in big trouble.

This thread could get him in trouble at work, and if he loses his job, you might never get your cash.

Definitely the right way of stopping anyone else getting burned though.

We have given him 4 months to save his job.  He has shown very little respect for us in that time as a group and only ever communicated with us when we have aggressively chased him.  When he has replied it has only ever been to buy time.

If you are going to bullshit me at least bullshit me with a story which makes sense.  There is £10k that should be sitting in his hands/bank which is ours if his story is true.  This is the tilting thing about it.  The relentless lies and inability to admit the truth but keep coming out with a bullshit story which doesn't add up to gcse maths.  The fact the £10k clearly isn't there means he is basically admitting he is lying but he won't actually come out and say it even though his story is doing that for him.

Yeah, I can see that would be very annoying.

Stu should come to you now and say what has happened to the money and how he is going to start repaying.

If he was just going to steal it, why didn't he just send you a series a bogus losing bets?

That's the only crumb of integrity I can find from this story.

I wil say this, Boldie and Blatch going AWOL with other people's money didn't surprise at all.

I'm shocked and disappointed redarmi would do this though.

I still cling to the hope he will make it right somehow.

HE did for 3 months.  The £30k stake was reduced to £26k between Jan-march. Whether these bets actually went on or not nobody has any proof of.  At this time i questioned him why we were not betting anywhere near the volumes on a day to day basis per his staking records/spreadsheet to generate the turnover needed to meet his projections for the stake over 6 months.  We were turning over 10% of the agreed amounts pre stake.  I asked for mine and my other 2 contacts % of the £26k remaining to be paid and the stake come to a conclusion as the sufficient volume was not being punted to justify the investment.  At this point he basically came out and admitted his bullshit story about £12k being stolen blah blah from a girl who is a friend of a friend as the money was clearly not there to be repaid.  He was only betting £2-3k turnover a day max so no one should ever have needed £12k in cash up front in one go to put on for him given the size of bets he was placing on the stakes behalf.  If i hadn't asked questions at this stage nothing would have been admitted and maybe that was the plan to slowly just lose the £30k on the stake over a longer period of time.  It all adds up from what has happened since.  There were 16 runner hcap's on a daily basis where the stake wasn't even having a bet in the race when we should have been backing 4-6 horses ew in these races for a decent % of the £30k bank.

Then there is the remaining £10k which he should still have in his bank to make the £30k up.  Obviously it is not there or he is just withholding payment.

I have posted enough about this now.  I just don't get what has happened/why it has happened etc.  No stories add up.  If he was worried about his job this issue was never going away and was always going to hit blonde etc within a 3 month period of him coming out with his story.  Opening up at the start would have been the obvious thing to do rather than lie which makes me think something serious has happened which he needed the money for.

No one's life is going to change if we all never see another penny of the money we have invested but that is not the point.

This was my reason for getting involved in the first place.  I can count on one hand the amount of staking investments i have made in 10 years of being in this game.  I don't like staking generally and prefer just to make money myself for this very issue.  This was the only one i really thought i would never get fucked on.

I'm glad you think it's an interest free loan. That implies that we will get it back.

Don't know why he just didn't just ask for a loan, instead of this staking thing.

I don't agree with that. It's all relevant or none of its relevant. If the poker player denies owing money then that's another piece to the jigsaw.

Said poker player confirms he owes Stu money but it is less than 10% of the overall stake from my knowledge.  It is not material in the bigger picture of the stake imo and certainly not an excuse for us not already having received a vast % of the amounts we are all due from money which should be sitting in Stu's bank account (at least circa £10k of the £30k) if his story which he has stuck to from early April is correct.

It will never cease to amaze me how much money people will trust others to gamble with.

Woodsey to put this in context the £30k was a combined investment from 6 or 7 people (all who are professional gamblers/investors) who's net worth between them was well in excess of £3m i would imagine.  I am sure Pads invests way more on a daily basis in swaps with people and buying % of players at the wsop.

Tough being on this side of the fence eh arrboy?

Not really.  The money won't change my life or anyone else's life who invested if we don't see it again.  Ten times more important to me I don't like losing long term friends over money and being lied to and damaging my reputation providing references for someone who i trusted and looked up to in the game 10 years ago.  I only commented on the thread started by pads because my name was mentioned and i gave my side of the story.

Well why isn't the poker player paying up ?
I'd have thought he should have been able to pay at the end of the football season.

I wasn't referring to the money.

Very helpful.

Thank you.

I received a pm from Arrboy- my post may have come across the wrong way. Obv I'm not happy at anyone getting grimmed. Just to clarify what I meant re the previous posts:

I'm referring to the betrayal of someone you trust than anything monetary.

I hope people get your money back but more importantly find some peace with Stu.

I have no particular beef with arrboy. I just thought he might now emphathise a little more with those of us who were in Blatch's corner even though it was clear to arrboy that he was on the take

Can't say I didn't laugh when I saw that arb (shrewdest guy ever by his own admission ) getting hooked like this

I genuinely hope those grimmed get their money back.

I am however surprised at supposed "successful gamblers" ever needing stakers if they are that good, regardless of "variance", or circumstance. Even if they are respected Forum members...

Admittedly, no help to those concerned, but a salutary lesson for everyone else.

Vouching people are 100% good for the money is a bad bet these days.

Think it's ok to be lighthearted here if these chaps lolz this sort of money around on a daily basis.

Even so some regular advice for pads, insane to share ur money out.

The ur was for RED-DOG!

This thread brings home just how tough it is to make a living at this game and how few people in life you can really trust.

I hope everything get sorted for you guys.

Thank u.

Yep, there is literally no upside to the voucher. And I presume arbboy isn't planning on paying peeps back if redarmi doesn't?

I hope everyone gets paid back eventually, I'm sure they will but it will be a long and tiresome process.

The problem with these threads is after the initial drama bomb is dropped it becomes full of after timers saying "why do successful gamblers need staking?" and "I would never trust a gambler with my money". Which don't help anyone or solve anything.

FWIW virtually every successul gambler I know has (or used to have) shareholders / stakers.

Hellmuth, Benham, Trickett, Dwan, Walters etc etc

You name them, It's 95%+ they are either currently or have previously been staked.

And stakers will have made bundles from the proposition.

Yep that's the problem with these popular threads on ghost town Blonde, everyone having their say! Nh. Haven't see so many names at the top of the page since skolsuper flipped his shit!

Most of us have stakeholder pensions - it's the same thing but you're trusting the faceless fund managers with a lot more money. And they get their 1% per year whether they win/lose  :-/

Read them by all means, and decide not to stake the person in question.

But is saying "I told you so, or I would have if somebody had asked my opinion but nobody did unfortunately for them" really necessary?

What does that achieve? Apart from pissing off the stakers even more?

And what ROI did people expect to get from their investment, 5%, 10% tops? Isn't that roughly what the best sports bettors achieve in the long-run? There are probably half-a-dozen investments I can think of where you have no chance of being grimmed and a helluva higher upside for your dough.

I imagine they weren't doing it purely for profit or to maximise ROI.

People have made a lot of money from Redarmi's advice on TFT. They were giving something back.

Asking if vouching is pointless could achieve interesting debate??

No, as it happens I wasn't talking about your post.

When I started gambling, a vouch meant that the person giving the assurance would cover any financial loss for the staker if the horse did the dirty.

To my cost, when I got screwed for about $1000 a couple of years ago I learned a vouch no longer means what I thought it meant.

So the whole system seems pointless now.

I don't think pleno will hold Arrboy responsible- iirc Pleno vouched for someone and it didn't end well (can't remember circumstances exactly but pretty sure that's when the whole vouch argument came about)

Sports bettors do achieve 5% long term if they are decent and selective.  However a good sports bettor will turn over their roll every day or every other day at best or maybe every week at worse if they are using correct bank roll management and operate a high volume low margin model.  Therefore saying you will only make 5% or 10% (i assume you mean per annum on normal investments) is hardly comparing like with like in this example. 5% per week compounded at best is hardly like comparing 5 or 10% per annum in a risk free investment where you have to pay tax on returns and a fund manager to manage them or have the risk of house prices collapsing.  When it is run correctly i know which investments i would rather invest in for optimal returns.  

Even if you make 1% on ur turnover (which a lot of arbers do) the fact you can constantly reinvest your roll time and time again to compound the returns is something you haven't factored into your original statement imo of course.  If we were to stake someone £30k and they were only going to be investing the money once over a year to achieve the 5% return then obviously it is a stupid investment compared to other more safe options.  However the staking plan was to be turning over close to £30k a day, not a year.  Even if we made 1% on turnover just compound it up over a year to see the potential returns.  It is often better to have a lower roi and turn more money over to make more bottom line cash which is all that really matters.  Any pro gambler can say 'i have an roi of 30%' but they will only have 2 bets a year (their strongest two bets with their biggest edge) and maybe make £5k.  The other side of the fence is an arber who has an roi of 0.2% but turns over millions of pounds a week.  The guy with a 0.2% roi probably makes more bottom line cash from the same bank roll.  0.2% roi doesn't sound as impressive as 30% but the only thing that matters to a pro gambler is how much bottom line cash they make.  So many gamblers turn down bets where they have an edge because they worry about it hurting their roi.  Never makes any sense to me.

There is a world of difference between getting staked because there exists strong evidence that you could beat higher stakes than your current bankroll allows and requiring a stake to stay solvent.

IMO for the stakee to have landed in the position where they need money to stay in the game then one of two things have to have happened:

1) They have followed good bankroll management rules but their bankroll has experienced a long slow decline, suggesting that their edge isn't what it one was

2) They didn't follow good bankroll management and punted off their own bankroll, suggesting that the stakee has big money management issues

Neither of those circumstances would seem to be an attractive investment.

Well they must have been very selective on what bets they followed then, because his ROI from tft bets is negative just like his Betting Emporium results.

How about a life expense caused his bankroll to be slashed to a fraction of what it once was?

How about doing a friend a favour?

As far as I know ROI from TFT have never been published.

Redarmi published reams of free sound advice, regardless of the bets he put up.

Ah I see, very interesting. Yes I was talking about a 5-10% ROI over a year, not per week.

Exactly the point I was trying to make. No aftertiming at all, as I didn't know about it until this thread.

I would say Keith is closer to the mark in this particular case than dan.

I don't know Stu well enough to call him a friend. But I do respect and like him.

It's very disappointing this has happened but I honestly think there must be a good reason for his behaviour.

I think it is very likely everyone will get paid eventually.

I said I'd trust Tom Langley 100% or soenthong. People said they bought in him because of me. When he gambled the money i think 2 people asked me to pay ( I did)

Not holding Arbboy for the money though

I wish the person who vouched for the scumbag who screwed me was as honourable as you.

I probably wouldn't have accepted it anyway, but the speed he ran away from the issue was very depressing.

Just seen this.
Sorry to hear it has happened and really hope it gets resolved satisfactorily for all parties.

What's the point of a vouch? Glad to hear Pads knows what it means!

I might as well have just bought the entire £30k of action for myself then if i am on the hook for the downside but have no upside.  I can't imagine how scummy you would have to be to demand a refund from someone who you asked for their advice free of charge so you can potentially gain financially from it.  The vouch to the people who asked me was more for his ability to produce profits on the investment than whether the money was safe imo.  I think most people assumed someone linked to BE and TFT to the level he was and his standing within the industry for his career going forward it was pretty unlikely he would risk all that to make £30k. 

For the record I don't owe anybody any money.

poor show by Red Armi and hope all involved get money back, I made a few quid betting some of his selections but must admit his stuff during World Cup left a poor taste in mouth. 

There's a huge difference between a vouch and an asked for opinion by a potential staker.

If in a staking proposal someone says Barack Obama vouches for me, then Barack is on the hook.

If there are no vouches in the proposal and I ask "As I don't know you, is there anyone I might know who can tell me about you" and he says "arbboy", then you wouldn't be on the hook for a penny.

If using someone's name encourages stakers with that persons knowledge, that is a vouch IMO.

That's how I understood the vouch system. But that must have changed sometime ago.

It really isn't the same thing at all

You realise what a tiny sample size the World Cup is Kmac?

Same as the tennis at Wimbledon, which I saw you mention a couple of days ago. Nigel Seeley has run super hot the last 3 or 4 tournaments, it wasn't going to last forever. I think he's a really good judge and think he'll be profitable to follow long term. One tournament means nothing in the long run.

I don't know the full details. Just giving my opinion on a vouch. Fairplay to you if you only vouched for the skills and not the integrity.

didn't mean anything bad about tom obviously. if redarmi handled this 10% as good as tom id be satisfied.

Why would any sane person in the world ever vouch for anyone under those conditions?

don't think arbboy should be responsible and even if it was agreed he was i wouldn't take it.

i asked him his opinion, he never wrote to me asking me to invest and stu never mentioned arbboy as a reference or a vouch. it would be such a shitty spot for me to ask him to now pay when it was me writing to him and he was taking time out. if anything i feel sorry for him that a friend did this etc.

[04/01/2015 03:46:07] Patrick Leonard: Hey
[04/01/2015 03:46:15] live:jockfourthree: hi
[04/01/2015 03:46:34] Patrick Leonard: Just wondered what you thought about this redarni staking
[04/01/2015 03:46:39] live:jockfourthree: i got 10%
[04/01/2015 03:46:47] live:jockfourthree: he is a top guy
[04/01/2015 03:46:48] live:jockfourthree: known him 10 years
[04/01/2015 03:46:53] live:jockfourthree: probably my best mate in the game
[04/01/2015 03:47:00] live:jockfourthree: had a tough run last 2 years
[04/01/2015 03:47:08] live:jockfourthree: on and off punting
[04/01/2015 03:47:13] Patrick Leonard: Was just surprised dubai/channing/joe didn't just take it all if he's so good etc
[04/01/2015 03:47:16] live:jockfourthree: and just needs a shot
[04/01/2015 03:47:25] live:jockfourthree: he has sold out easily
[04/01/2015 03:47:49] Patrick Leonard: Hm I didn't think he had. I reserved 30 but said I wouldn't necessarily take it
[04/01/2015 03:48:03] Patrick Leonard: And he said he didn't have any other reserves if I didn't take it
15 03:51:43] live:jockfourthree: he is 100% good for the money
[04/01/2015 03:51:47] live:jockfourthree: he would never grim anyone
[04/01/2015 03:51:52] live:jockfourthree: he will work his tits
[04/01/2015 03:51:54] live:jockfourthree: off
[04/01/2015 03:51:56] live:jockfourthree: gtd
[04/01/2015 03:52:01] live:jockfourthree: u will have the best of it
[04/01/2015 03:52:05] live:jockfourthree: its a gamble
[04/01/2015 03:52:12] live:jockfourthree: it might take another bullet
[04/01/2015 03:52:17] live:jockfourthree: u never know
[04/01/2015 03:52:26] live:jockfourthree: but i dont stake hardly anyone
[04/01/2015 03:52:35] live:jockfourthree: and i was happy to have 10% of this
[04/01/2015 03:52:42] live:jockfourthree: i am the biggest non staker u will ever meet
[04/01/2015 03:52:53] live:jockfourthree: which actually got him 60% of his action elsewhere
[04/01/2015 03:53:08] Patrick Leonard: To be clear if he does the 30 and we reload it counts as 60k he has to win right?
[04/01/2015 03:53:11] live:jockfourthree: as soon as a certain poker player who knows i am a non staking nit knew i was invovled
[04/01/2015 03:53:14] live:jockfourthree: he wanted 50%
[04/01/2015 03:53:29] live:jockfourthree: i would imagine so
[04/01/2015 03:53:35] live:jockfourthree: i havent confirmed that with him
[04/01/2015 03:53:42] Patrick Leonard: Ok we should
[04/01/2015 03:53:42] live:jockfourthree: but it makes logical sense
[04/01/2015 03:53:44] Patrick Leonard: I'll flick it in then I guess
[04/01/2015 03:53:53] live:jockfourthree: u will have worse investments
[04/01/2015 03:53:59] live:jockfourthree: think of it this way
[04/01/2015 03:54:04] live:jockfourthree: he is udner the cosh
[04/01/2015 03:54:04] live:jockfourthree: with kids
[04/01/2015 03:54:05] live:jockfourthree: wife
[04/01/2015 03:54:06] Patrick Leonard: Yeh
[04/01/2015 03:54:11] live:jockfourthree: not having usa visa
[04/01/2015 03:54:14] live:jockfourthree: his exs are large
[04/01/2015 03:54:16] live:jockfourthree: life wise
[04/01/2015 03:54:17] Patrick Leonard: How's he gonna get on the bets?
[04/01/2015 03:54:30] live:jockfourthree: he has a proper team of people who are real pro punters backign him
[04/01/2015 03:54:33] live:jockfourthree: showing him confidence
[04/01/2015 03:54:43] live:jockfourthree: he will do everything it takes to justify the support
[04/01/2015 03:54:51] live:jockfourthree: he will get the bets on in the shops
[04/01/2015 03:54:54] live:jockfourthree: dont worry about that
[04/01/2015 03:55:00] live:jockfourthree: he is 100% motivated
[04/01/2015 03:55:06] live:jockfourthree: dont worry about any of that
[04/01/2015 03:55:08] Patrick Leonard: Ok great
[04/01/2015 03:55:16] live:jockfourthree: he used to be my boss 9 years ago
[04/01/2015 03:55:18] Patrick Leonard: I'll send him some good newcastle bets every couple of weeks too!
[04/01/2015 03:55:19] live:jockfourthree: in antigua
[04/01/2015 03:55:23] live:jockfourthree: when we worked together
[04/01/2015 03:55:29] live:jockfourthree: he is a top top maths guru
[04/01/2015 03:55:32] live:jockfourthree: he isnt a punter
[04/01/2015 03:55:49] live:jockfourthree: he knows the game inside out
[04/01/2015 03:55:55] live:jockfourthree: u migiht lose
[04/01/2015 03:56:02] live:jockfourthree: but there are worse ways to invest ur cash
[04/01/2015 03:56:08] live:jockfourthree: u know the score
[04/01/2015 03:56:21] live:jockfourthree: i tell people who it is
[04/01/2015 03:56:25] live:jockfourthree: i hardly ever stake people
[04/01/2015 03:56:31] live:jockfourthree: i can gtd 2 things
[04/01/2015 03:56:34] live:jockfourthree: he will never ever grim anyone
[04/01/2015 03:56:38] live:jockfourthree: and he will work his tits off
[04/01/2015 03:56:44] live:jockfourthree: u cant ask for anymore
[04/01/2015 03:57:07] live:jockfourthree: those two things to me are priceless
[04/01/2015 03:57:15] live:jockfourthree: obv without talent they mean nothing
[04/01/2015 03:57:18] live:jockfourthree: but he has talent
[04/01/2015 03:57:40] Patrick Leonard: Yeh sounds good
[04/01/2015 03:57:45] live:jockfourthree: its a bet to u
[04/01/2015 03:57:46] live:jockfourthree: i assume
[04/01/2015 03:57:52] Patrick Leonard: Will get a sweat from it
[04/01/2015 03:57:52] live:jockfourthree: tiny % of roll
[04/01/2015 03:57:54] live:jockfourthree: sure
[04/01/2015 03:58:08] live:jockfourthree: its never going to be a sweat
[04/01/2015 03:58:10] live:jockfourthree: to bink the world
[04/01/2015 03:58:13] live:jockfourthree: its a grinding game
[04/01/2015 03:58:15] live:jockfourthree: what he is doing
[04/01/2015 03:58:20] live:jockfourthree: so dont expect the world
[04/01/2015 03:58:27] live:jockfourthree: but u wont lose the world either
[04/01/2015 03:58:32] Patrick Leonard: Yeh true
[04/01/2015 03:58:35] live:jockfourthree: he is grinding 2-5% edges
[04/01/2015 03:58:38] live:jockfourthree: hourly
[04/01/2015 03:58:49] live:jockfourthree: maybe less % than that
[04/01/2015 03:59:21] live:jockfourthree: i appreciate u asking me for my opinion
[04/01/2015 03:59:21] Patrick Leonard: Big grind yeh
[04/01/2015 03:59:33] live:jockfourthree: i have had several people ask the same
[04/01/2015 03:59:35] Patrick Leonard: And likewise I more than appreciate you taking time to reply too

This is true if he lost the money using it for what it was originally intended but aren't you saying he has basically grimmed you by using it for personal gain? In which case the vouch argument comes into play

Doing a friend a favour. Probably because I would have the stake if my current roll allowed it, but I can't justify it at the moment

As I said, there are maybe 5 people I would do this for.

All of them 10000/1+ to grim anyone.

Hilarious. Pads ask is he trustworthy. Arb in 38 repetitions of the same thing shocker. To fun

[04/01/2015 03:56:31] live:jockfourthree: i can gtd 2 things
[04/01/2015 03:56:34] live:jockfourthree: he will never ever grim anyone
[04/01/2015 03:56:38] live:jockfourthree: and he will work his tits off

I do but it wasn't just the running bad.  Anyway that's a different gripe.  

Just to bring this to an end Stu has emailled all stakers regarding the issue and for the time being i don't see the point in carrying on with this on here.  I assume everyone involved has the email?

£1 e/w please

This is like de ja vu

Defford needs to stay open. I'm not sure I trust him

No credit bets.

WTF, Arbboy you ever thought about doing sales if punting and staking don't work out.  I nearly e-mailed Red Armi asking if he needed a top up after reading that ref. 

why wouldnt he give that reference with 10 years of unblemished history?

So many after timing results orientated ***** on here.  Next time someone asks me for my opinion for free i am going to get them to sign a contract first to disclaim myself from all liability regarding what i will say or charge them £500 for the information they wish to obtain in order to make a profit for themselves.  Seems a lot more logical way to operate then i will have sufficient reward to justify the risk i take to pay out on the vouch when it goes wrong.

hes no crystal ball he can only give his judgement at the time based on all information he has

Disagree with you about the meaning of vouch, but


This.

And


This.

Not aftertiming. .just reasonable to question your judgement

You can't 100% ever guarantee that someone won't grim someone else.   I work in lending and oversee the lending of millions on a daily basis and I'd never ever be put in a position wherebye I would give anyone any money or place 100% trust in anyone repaying 100% of the time and I can use credit referencing, audit bank accounts etc before making a decision.  

It seems two guarantees Arbboy stated have been breached.  Before signing up to this forum I read from afar for a long time, and I have read back through many staking threads and in particular the one involving Blatch and some of the comments Arbboy directed to some people he can't take the moral high ground and call people aftertimimg c***s.  

I can call anyone i want an after timing *****.  Five years ago i told everyone what Blatch was doing weeks before everyone else realised.  Hardly aftertiming.  I saved the same results orientated after timing c***s on this thread 6 figures and not one person, barring Rutter, has ever thanked me in person never mind even bought me a drink.  This forum really is a joke at times.  Numerous others have never admitted to my face they were wrong what they called me at the time etc etc either.  I couldn't give a fuck but please don't call me an aftertimer.

Put your toys back in the pram. 

If you never lend or stake and trust no one, good luck making friends in this game.

You can sit all alone, perusing your bank statements while the rest of us are out having a beer.

lol, what?

It's a day job, it requires making big decisions.  It has nothing to do with not making friends or drinking beer.   Although I guess I'd be glad not to go for beer with guys I "100 guaranteed won't grim" but then fiddle me and others out of 30k. 

If you don't play for a living, you don't realise how important having friends in the same line is.

Players need emotional as well financial support when times get rough.

If you are stuck in a foreign country with no money and your credit card stops working, what are you going to do?

It's a job, you just summed it up.  It isn't my job, and i don't get paid, to give credit checks on people.  If you want to ask me for free then take what i give you for free and use it.  If you want me to be responsible for my opinion then i will charge you like you do your customers before i take the risk on board.

FWIW I don't agree that Stu set out to scam or grim at all. Sometimes life gets in the way. I also believe Stu will make whole and not just disappear as others might.

'Vouch' for me comes somewhere between 'giving a reference' and a 'guarantee' with a slight leaning to the reference. Without a guarantee you make your choices and pays your money.

You would do some or any of the three to help a friend out. It's a selfless thing. There doesn't have to be a personal gain to do it.

In the world we (some of us) live in there are always situations where credit is required. It might be that thing called 'life' getting in the way again or it might be a short term thing when away in Vegas or something and it's convenient.

The world some people involved with professional gambling live in is so far unrecognizable from 9 to 5 they can not be compared and it is folly to do so.

For the record..I was quite supportive of you at the time the site banned you for being far less rude than you are these days. But with time I do find you have more opinions than the average person so dont feel too bad about getting the odd thing wrong
 Its just variance.

Excellent post Joe.

For someone with a job outside gambling, it's fine not to get involved in lending/borrowing and swapping/buying/selling action.

If you do it for a living, especially if you play live poker. You never know when you might need help urgently. And if you've never been there for someone else in their time of need, well maybe no one will be there for you.

What goes around, comes around.

Just like to add, I also don't think that Arb has guaranteed the money for Pleno either. Having reread my post, and the chat log, I want to make it clear that is not what I am saying at all.

I believe that it is a different thing saying 'I guarantee he would never grim anyone' and 'I guarantee the money'.

I don't see this situation to be a grim, as far as I understand the word to mean.

The first quote is a reference even though it uses the word guarantee. That would be my ruling anyway if I were TD.

Semantics maybe...

sorry this is me with personal hat on not a mod and is not linked in anyway with the blonde moderating team

but where do you get off re writing history
2 weeks before blatch stuff came out on the forum people were investigating people knew something was up some just took longer to accept it

you didnt even start with your crap untill it was being dealt with my other members including rookie

all you did was shout you guys have been grimmed (which most of us not involved already knew)
all you was doing was stating the obvious and rubbing peoples noses in it

drop your ego please your not some great hero that discovered a grim ir was already discovered and being dealt with


i do hope that everyone gets there money back and i do hope that stu recovers from this and gets his life back on track

yet more aftertiming from the masses!  Everyone knew!  Did they fuck.  No one knew.  Stop kidding urself.  It's so easy after the event to say 'i knew' it is a lot harder to stick your balls on the line and say it before the event.  People were still about to invest the day before he was exposed if i hadn't got involved.  Two of them were my mates which was the only reason i even chose to get involved.  What is your reason for getting involved in this thread?

As for starting with my crap i called the guy out as a joker/dreamer a year before blatchgate even started live in person at dtd when i wasn't even a blonde member. 

arrboy i was told about it and warned not to lend him money or invest while at the blonde bash

you didnt join blonde poker untill well after the bash now shut the feck up

good luck to those that are owed money, hopefully there will be some sort of resolution for all concerned.

What struck me when reading the OP was how easily some one would send over a large amount of money with very little, to no, due diligence, mind boggling really. To make a decision that big on the word of one person just defies belief.

Common sense goes a long way.

@Arb, a lot of this has turned on you for responding to a Skype message, obviously there's a lot of history too, which i'm oblivious too, but mate prob best to avoid posting in this thread until it can hopefully be resolved, it'll just go round in circles.

i am sorry to everyone who have read my posts and sorry arrboy if it sounds like a personally attack

i have a dislike for egos and feel you over play your role in the unmasking of blatch yes you asked the right questions
but in the wrong way and behind the scenes things were already unravelling and you IMHO were making them  harder

i feel for everyone who gets embroiled in a grim if its over money or trust or what ever as i feel bad that you have lost your trust in a friend
and lost some money (no matter how small or big it is too you)

maybe time has played tricks in my head and you were the great knight in shinning armour you claim to be
i know a few poker players in my local casino give me grief all the time about you getting banned

hope everyone gets there money back and i blame my outburst on 5bet shoving QQ into AA when i knew what he had deep in the hotter $5.50

Redarmi has always been a good poster and come across as someone I wouldn't have worried about investing in.

It's an unfortunate situation and I believe Pads absolutely did the right thing by posting which didn't have to happen if Redarmi had handled this better.

I have a friend who let me down and himself down harder. He was $120k in debt and cleared the whole thing staying in touch with people he owed money to the whole time and is now one of the best (and richest) online poker players in the world and remains one of my best friends.

Good guys can get themselves into fucked up spots. I've never met redarmi but believe this is what happened here.

I hope he can turn things around.

"That thing called life getting in the way again" sounds like a Frank Sinatra song.

Anyway why does that thing called life stop people replying to emails etc? Or is that a pro gambling thing 9-5 folk wont understand?

This is just my two cents and is not intended as a judgement on anyone.

In my world, (Or in my day, I'm not sure which) if you vouch for someone it is because you trust them implicitly, so much so that you are prepared to honour their debts and as far as possible make good any wrongdoing.  

It's not something that you would do lightly because you are putting your own good name on the line.

Now if someone asks me something like, "What do you think about so and so?" I might say "Yeah, I think he's OK".

That is not a vouch. It is an opinion.

If they say "What do you think of so and so?" and I say, "Yeah, I'll vouch for him". That means his debts, to the person I vouched to only, are my debts.

In my younger days when the world was not quite so PC, a lot of business men would tell you to fuck off if they knew you were a Gypsy, but my name was good everywhere, so I was often asked to vouch. Mostly this was a case of someone rocking up at a business and saying "Tom McCready sent me".

The thing was, I pre warned everyone that unless they heard it from my own mouth, I had not sent them, and therefore, was not responsible for them.

If, on the other hand, I had sent them, they were afforded the same trust as I was. No one cared if they didn't make good because the onus was on me.

What you have to remember is vouching for someone is a big responsibility. It's like going to a loan company and saying "Yes. you can lend him the money and sign me up as guarantor".

Also, remember, asking someone to vouch for you is a big ask. They have to put their good name on the line for you.  

The vouching system is a fantastic tool, and I have benefited from it many times, but for it to work it has to mean something, otherwise it's just a waste of time.

Just caught up with thread and something dawned on me as I read it.

Its a forum, and without opinions and comments it would die. However, it seems the "professional" gamblers on here, seem to have issue with that, when it comes to others daring to look into "their" world.

Us "normal world" folk couldn't possibly understand the world of honour and tough beats they live in.

You would think, reading some of the guff on here, they are a special breed. Clearly some have been put on a pedastal, because as shipitgood points out, pads has paid out a chunk on the advice/reference of one person. When you read the content about bad two years/change in circs, most would be leaving well alone.

Its not aftertiming to think that, and it doesn't take Hercule Poirot to spot the danger signs either.

I don't for one minute think, or even suggest arbboy is in on it, or there is anything to even be "in on", but it's a brave leap to invest on a few words of advice written on here, and one persons say so.

They also seem to think calling the rest of us "aftertiming C***s" is somehow their domain, and very clever . I'm not sure how we can talk about it before this though, if we didn't know about it???!!

I get on with most people on Blonde, and there are some great people on here, but it was only on reading the last comment that the penny dropped, and I realised the only people on Blonde that have a real vocal beef with me, are our "professional" gamblers, not, I hasten to add, the guys that play poker for a living, their rules seem a little different, in a good way.

They don't seem to like others with opinions that differ, or people who can make money without applying their rules.

Redarmi, seemed to be in this little group. What good judges of character these people seem to be........

I don't understand the logic behind this vouching.  It's like selling credit default swaps without premiums!

If I had invested in this I had credit risk to Redarmi.  If Arb had vouched for him to my mind all that does is allow me to make a clearer judgement about that Redarmi credit risk.  If I wanted Arb to underwrite the credit risk then that's a valuable transaction and Arb would have to be compensated for taking on that risk.

I take Tom's point about doing someone a favour in business, but what he's doing is effecively giving the customer/supplier a freebie by underwriting the credit risk of the person he is vouching for.

The default position of a vouch should surely just be a credit reference rather than credit underwriting unless it is expressly communicated.

This absolutely spot on. Too many times in the poker/sports betting world meanings are watered down to an extent that they bare no reality to real life situations. Maybe this is acceptable in this domain??

"I don't see this situation to be a grim, as far as I understand the word to mean. "

Maybe I don't understand the meaning of the word "grim".  If 30k goes unaccounted for and the person isn't responding to emails then I'm not sure how this can be looked at in a sympathetic light. 

I don't think words are watered down, they just mean different things to different people.  This is in addition to the language simply evolving over time.  Though I am the same age as Keith and know lots of big gamblers, I'd use vouch completely differently to him.  That is probably because until very recently our circles never really crossed.  Vouch has always meant the same as reference to me.  I don't think anybody is wrong, and both uses are just as valid.

Good luck on getting the money back.

Why doesn't Stu just borrow the money he needs from his nephew Junior Hoilett?

May be he needs someone to vouch for him :)

There are so many trolls on here just come on to stir/bask in other persons misfortune. I do hope all investors get repaid however do find it odd how people can react one way to one person grimming and another to other people in the past grimming - i'm not just talking about arbboy's reactions etc but more people not involved in this situation reacting completely different to the blatch/railtard/boldie grims - The only reason I can see why is because these people have some form of relationship with Redarmi/respect for him? Surely a grim is a grim, how do peoples morals change from one to the next?

I don't believe that I made any generalizations or disparaging marks regarding people that go to work for a living, or regarding any other forum posters for that matter so I'm not sure any sarcasm is necessary. I certainly meant no disrespect.

I can not disagree that Stuart has handled this badly and he should have dealt with this better. However to get a couple of points straightened out. There is not 30k unaccounted for and emails have not stopped (there may have been some periods of slow response, but that is not the same thing).

Some monies have already been paid back and some agreements exist for the balances to be paid, myself included, and others are being discussed.

A grim to me is a cheater, a scammer, someone that intends to defraud. I don't believe this to be the case here.

It is the specific use of the word "vouch". To me it has always been far stronger than a reference or even a commendation.

To vouch for someone you are guaranteeing that person. Exactly the way Tom describes it.

Arb said "why on earth would I do that?".

Well, in the situation I found myself in a player was looking for backing in a specific, one off tournament. The semi famous player who vouched for him had a share, but also was owed significant amount of money. It was in his interests that the player entered the tournament.

I bought a share in the guy I hardly knew because I thought that if he grimmed me the guy who vouched for him would see me right for the money.

But when he did the dirty the famous player refused to accept the debt and I was left being grimmed.

My understanding of the word "vouch" is why I have given plenty of references but virtually never vouched for someone. I accept now though that "vouch" has changed it's meaning and it does mean what I understood it to mean.

Looking at that chat log it must be really uncomfortable reading for arbboy. It does look like he's encouraging Pleno to buy a share for whatever reason. Whether he's doing Stu a favour or whether he thinks with a bigger bankroll Stu is more likely to be successful and arbs investment is worth more.

You've only been a memeber of blondepoker for 6 months, yet you seem to know a great deal about the history of the site. No one has mentioned railtard for the whole thread, and I've not seen mention of his affair for ages.

Are you banned member with a new username?

As for your post, I don't think we can call this a grim yet. Out of order sure, but a grim? Not yet.

As Joe said, redarmi has paid some money back and has made arrangements for the rest (possibly encouraged by this thread).

A confusing post, as I see the people that you are calling trolls agree with your point.

Some people just love to use the T word though. I consider a troll to be someone out to cause trouble all the time, I think everyone posting here has more than enough decent posts on Blonde to warrant an opinion.

I set up the account however many months ago yes but that doesn't mean I didn't see what went on before. Did my mention of railtard hit the spot seeing as the comments you had for him were completely different to these...?

At what point IS this a grim? This thread surely wouldn't have been made had pleno thought he had a chance of getting his money back or that this was bang out of order...

For the record I have had no involvement in this or any other stake that has gone awry. I truly hope Redarmi sorts this out amicably. My only interest in this thread is to understand the valid meaning of the word 'vouch' as I do regularly stake others. In the past if someone vouched for a stakee I would expect the voucher to be true to their word, whether or not I would call that in is a different matter dependent upon circumstances. I will tread more carefully in future.

Maybe trolls was the wrong word and opinions are fine, it's more the basking the glory of someone else misfortune that I was trying to get across. The one sentence told you so's etc for nobody's benefit but their own and bring nothing else to the thread/situation.

FWIW, I would consider vouching for someone a recommendation, or a tick in the box for their proposal, I would in no way consider it a guarentee to become the fiscal backstop, as I would consider the rest of the transaction, the private business of the two principles.

I think it depends on whether you vouch for the person's good character or vouch for the investment imo, if it's the latter then you are guaranteeing the amount should the person default.

Very strange.

If I'm interested enough in a forum to read the posts, I'll join up.

You clearly followed a thread 3 years ago closely enough to know the opinion of a poster you've never met (and remembered those opinions all that time too) and yet waited 2 1/2 years to actually sign up?

Excuse me for not believing you.

Karabiner says in one sentence what I've been trying to say in about 4 very long posts!

I'm not telling you what to believe so you are excused. All I do know is that you have tried to divert from my first two posts with this because you know that the railtard thread was aimed at a lot of comments you have made there and here and how they differ. Situations are almost identical in that both parties have waited plenty of time for payment before posting on here, only thing I can see is that redarmi owes approximately 6x more than railtard did at the time and you wanted his head on a stake.

I don't understand how ones opinions of a situation can change like that other than personal hatred for one person and respect for another? Imagine if this happened in every court of law.

I don't hate railtard at all. In fact I like him.

I was disappointed in what he did and maybe because I like him and I would have trusted him I was over the top in criticising him.

And as I have said numerous times, I am not condoning what redarmi has done at all. He's bang out of order and he knows he is.

Far too sensible for this place dung.

I can 100% guarantee I'm not trolling. And I can vouch for BobAlike as well.

Sorry to hear about this mess.  I hope complete restitution is forthcoming shortly.

'Guarantee' and 'vouch' are very strong words, I'm with the old school on this one, don't use them lightly.

If a voucher is held responsible for any debt, why would any1 ever vouch for any1? Taking on a liability without any possible upside. It just makes no sense, as with all things staking is a case of buyer beware. All the if some1 vouches they are responsible for a bad debt is a nice idea to make staker feel safe in their investment, but in reality is not realistic. Why should some1 with no financial involvement be responsible for any debt? Simply the whole idea of vouching is flawed in this context. Would any person having read this thread ever 'vouch' for someone? It just wouldn't make sense on any level whatsoever

If I was to vouch for someone I would be putting my own reputation at risk.
Would I do this for no financial gain? Yes I would if I wanted to help a friend.
Would this mean I would cover his bad debts? Yes it would.

Would I vouch for someone who I had good dealings with? No but I would state that I have not had a problem previously.
Would I honour a bad debt in this scenario? No

I think we are all pretty much on the same page just terminology differs.

You would only vouch for someone you trusted implicitly as a favour to them or because it benefited you in some way.

That's why it really meant something in the old days if you vouched for someone. It was far more meaningful than a positive reference.

It isn't generally a good idea to vouch ~ therefore it isn't something you do lightly or without serious consideration.  But for those that can never see any upside, that is just a very very quantitative outlook.  There are several non-quant reasons, some of which already given by Keith.  Those reasons do come into play from time to time in gambling/staking.

Poker staking I get completely. Sports betting staking seems a whole other sort of silly. Is it really that common for solid winning punters (rather than competent theorists) to get staked. Be really surprised if it's very common. Can't see how enough can be put on via normal channels for it to work

It is not uncomfortable reading for me in the slightest.  Let me get a few things straight about the whole affair and go back to the start.  Stuart approached me late last year with a spreadsheet and business plan he had written without any input from myself (or anyone else as far as i am aware - Stuart is more than capable of writing a decent detailed business plan from his previous PLC director level appointments in business) for a 6 month staking plan with a view to extending it if it was successful.  His comments were 'people do this in poker why can't it be used for sports betting although no one has ever done it'.  My answer was it can be done if run correctly and i had a look at the numbers and projections were totally reasonable on the basis of sufficient legwork being put in to get the bet volumes on and finding sufficient positive ev bets to invest in.  That wouldn't be a problem as TFT has proven over the years.

It was going to be sports betting only based.  It was a detailed 6 month business plan with cash flow forecasts and bet volumes which all stacked up on paper to being achievable.  If anything i thought the projects were conservative if he was willing to put the leg work into the project getting round the shops to make it work.  His project was based on a £30k investment and to last 6 months then would be reviewed.   He had been struggling over the past few months financially with life expenses and the logic of him having extra investment to do what he was currently doing on a smaller bank roll made sense to provide an increased return for everyone involved.

I said i would take a percentage (it was early January and i had a huge % of my roll tied up in ante post stuff across numerous sports) otherwise i would have invested substantially more.  I knew he would have no trouble shifting the £30k relatively quickly so i said to two profession poker playing/staking friends that i was investing in an opportunity with Stuart.  They both knew of Stuart via myself, BE etc and asked me if the margins were achievable and i said 'yes if the work was put in to get on'.  They both agreed to take decent percentages.  I know Stuart sold other % himself to people who he knew and had financial dealings with including Mrs Bandit and Joe.  Within a couple of days he was pretty much sold out then i got the skype from pads asking about Stu etc out of the blue.  Therefore to imply that i encouraged Pads to invest is not true.  He approached me via skype for my opinion when i have literally one skype convo with pads previously.  I can't even remember how he has my skype previous to this because i have never had any financial or personal dealings with him.  The second point about getting additional investment on board to help boost the return on my % is also nonsense as the business plan was fixed at £30k investment and was never going to go higher so me 'selling' it to pads was irrelevant.  If pads hadn't have taken his % one of my other two guys who were involved would have simply took it.  The bigger of those two investors just said to me 'i will take whatever is left over'.  This was a relatively small staking investment for him.  He stakes numerous poker players for years both live and online so this was totally just another day at the office for him.

The reason the fund failed was from the start Stuart never put in the leg work. It really is as simple as that.  It is debatable whether he ever intended to put in the leg work looking back.  The betting turnover for weeks was at a tenth of the projected business plan and there is no actual proof received that the bets he said he placed were actually placed.  As far as i am aware Stuart hasn't provided any audit trail for where any of the £30k capital has gone to any of the investors since the end of March.

 He wasn't even betting in races/events where there were huge obvious mathematical edges (think 16 runner hcaps in racing for instance).  He came out with excuse after excuse about moving to Dublin for his new job, family issues etc and he got a bit of time to sort that out.  After a couple of months it became more and more obvious that this just wasn't going to happen due to his lack of effort/change in circumstances or just the fact that this money was never raised for this reason and the fund stood at £26k per his daily results sheet.  My two investors alongside myself decided enough was enough and we wanted to end the agreement as Stuart hadn't got anywhere near producing what he had suggested.  We asked for the £26k of the £30k fund to be distributed back to the investors and we would take the £4k loss as a bad bet and move on.  If I hadn't decided to ask questions at this stage and put an end to the stake there would never have been any mention of the £12k being stolen.  This only came to light once I asked for our %'s to be refunded out of the remaining fund.  Stuart has been completely dishonest about this stake since he received the cash.

This was when the bullshit started about £12k being 'stolen' from a friend of a friend , £3k being owed by a poker player who was putting on for him and no mention of where the other £11k was which should literally have been sitting in his bank to repay instantly.  It was pretty obvious when no monies were received in the forthcoming weeks that this had effectively been a £30k interest free loan to Stuart which was needed for whatever reason, maybe we will never know.  He was in no position to repay money even though after all the excuses of £12k being stolen etc etc there still should have been circa £11k sitting in his bank doing nothing now the stake had finished.

I have no doubt if Stuart had done what he had originally planned he would have made the returns his business plan stated.  The bottom line this is all on Stuart to explain why it never happened both from a workload angle on the actual plan itself as he just didn't put the leg work in having easily raised the investment and secondly where the actual money went to.  Every investor was investing their money to get a decent return not to provide an interest free loan to Stuart for 7 months and counting for £30k which is effectively what has happened.  There is no one here, including me, who needs any bad press about this.  Stuart is 1000% in the wrong on every level of this project and should take all the flak.  I actually think we will get our money back over time however the investors are not in business to lend people £30k interest free until it suits them to pay it back.  Sorry to sound harsh but this is the reality of the situation.  The irony of the situation is if he had come to me and said 'I am skint Mark, i can't get a loan from the bank and really need £30k quickly but i can't tell you the reason' i could have gone to the same two investors and they would have happily lent him £30k at commerical interest rates if a legal contract was drawn up to ensure repayment.  We have effectively done the same thing in my eyes but it could have been a lot more civilised for everyone involved.

As Trigg said i don't see why i shouldn't have said what i said having known him well for over 10 years professionally.  

I don't have anything else to say on the matter now the above is all out in the open for all the investors to see.

Fair enough - but then we are back to the point of why would anyone vouch for the investment if they are getting nothing in return.  In a community where EV is talked about often, why are people selling credit insurance for zero premiums?

Yes there might be non-quant reasons.   But the PV of somsone defaulting on a 30k betting pool is potentially significant.   If you think he's even got a 3% chance of defaulting then that insurance is worth £900.  And not only are you giving up £900 if you underwrite it, but you're giving the £900 to the investor, not your friend.   The fact the investor will be more likely to invest with your friend is a side effect.  I guess that is your non-quant impact and a favour to your friend, but ultimately you're giving an asset to someone for free.

As far as I am concerned this is an accurate statement of what happened.

The insurance is worth £900 and at that price you are just buying variance.  You have no margin in it for your 'expertise' you are offering the said guy for the time you take to make the judgement.  I find it amazing how people think a guy who i have never met in real life, never had any financial dealings with myself and had one skype conversation with prior to this conversation who wants to make a quick buck by jumping on a staking scheme which numerous other industry professionals are involved in should then be able to cold call approach me to ask for my opinion free of charge.  Then i should be liable for any losses.  Do me a favour!  Can we get this thread back to the real issue rather than this vouching to strangers you have never met for free bullshit it has turned into.

Amazing how these threads insta-attract trolls. It's almost like they can sniff them out from under their bridges, and out they come to play.

This is the whole point. 99% of the time you wouldn't dream of it. But. If it was a very good friend who you wanted to help and trusted absolutely and beyond doubt to the extent that if you were wrong you would accept responsibility then you would.

I have sent stuart in excess of 15 emails and skype convo's in the past 4 months to answer all the questions/allegations i raised above with no response or comeback from him.  I am more than happy to be proved wrong and i am happy for all my theories to be put to bed as bullshit but Stuart has at no time in the last 4 months provided any explanation of any of my statements above and totally ignored the issue at all times. The same can be said for at least 2 other investors who have sent similar emails asking questions with no reasonable explanations given either.  He is the only guy who knows what has actually happened.  Maybe he isn't in a position where he wants to disclose the details even privately to investors so i highly doubt he will do so on a public forum.

FWIW all the investors i have spoken to have heard far too much bullshit from him in the last few months now and they couldn't give a fuck what he has done with the money as long as he agrees a rigid time plan to repay the money which he will stick to.

100% this.

Like I said, there are maybe 5 people in the gambling world I would do this for.

But maybe 500 people I would give a positive reference for.

There's a huge difference.

If this is the case and you have to pay in full when it goes wrong then you might as well just provide the investment in full at the start and have all the potential rewards if you are going to take 100% of the downside if it goes wrong.  Why is this so obvious i keep banging my head against my laptop trying to work out why people don't see this like i do?

I thought it was uncomfortable reading because it looks like you are encouraging Patrick to make the investment.

Apart from that, an excellent post.

Stu knows he has fucked up and I am pretty confident/hopeful that he makes good.

But you agree now that given he cold called approached me as someone he has never met IRL or had any financial dealings with and that his investment made no difference to my return or the stake going ahead itself that your claims are untrue that i wasn't in any shape or form trying to induce Pads to invest in this?

To true

I never claimed you vouched for him.

Just checked back through the thread and Mantis brought up the topic of vouching, which has been talked to death on several threads in the past.

I don't think you're on the hook for any of the money Patrick lost, but I do think your endorsement of the venture was a bit over enthusiastic.

Why do i owe anything to a random guy who approaches me out of nowhere who i have never met IRL, had any financial dealings with etc who wishes to use my more detailed knowledge of the situation than his for free to make a better informed investment decision in order for him to selfishly, quite rightly, make a quick buck for himself?  I am pretty fucked off the chat log was posted without pads consulting myself beforehand just like 2 of the other investors are quite fucked off he decided to start the thread on blonde without discussing the issue with the other investors beforehand as they quite rightly said it has the potential to impact their repayments which are substantial bigger than Pads.

This isn't a pop at Pads.  More a pop at the people on here who think i should be on the hook for my comments to a total stranger.

I dont think Pad's is holding Arrboy anyway for this so not sure why its such a big issue!

I know in the past Pad's has used the word vouch for me and said something along the lines of I can vouch for Callum in this transaction of £400 etc but no further money etc etc. So I am 100% ( ;) ) sure that Pad's was only taking more of a character reference.

I think we live in a sad world if people would only vouch for peoples money if there was a net (financial) gain for them. Yes I wouldn't do this for a lot of people in life but those special 10-20 are close enough that I may do that for, and it wouldn't matter if i was a net loser in the deal because that's sometimes what you do for friends.

When i drop a friend off at the airport at 4am, its not because I am gaining from this experience, its just that i know next time when i book a flight at 3:30 i have got my mate by the nackers.

Oh and +1 to hoping this all get's sorted.

I have benefited from Stu's knowledge in the past and also from the knowledge of some of the investors so it would be nice to see this all get sorted in a timely manor.

Jesus.

How many more times do I have to say I do not think you owe Patrick anything!

If Stu had lost all his money betting on the plan then then I don't think you are liable however if he had spent the money punting and not the agreed plan then that's what the person who's vouched for his should feel responsible

I agree you think that but my point is at the various people on here who think i should be on the hook for it by providing a total stranger with an opinion for free who cold called me.  Can they explain why this should be the case?

The chat log to me looks massively like a recommendation, not a vouch though so I am not sure how this is an issue.

We know Arrboy is passionate about everything he does and maybe in some peoples eyes he went over the top in his recommendation, I dont, but i dont see how that chat log could be taken as a vouch!

I just find it amazing someone would hand over a considerable amount of money to someone they had never met on the rudimentary say so of someone else they have never met/little dealings with

A "considerable amount of money" will be different to each person, it is not just in the gambling world people lose out on these deals.

People get "grimmed" day in day out.

I would imagine each one of these backers would have understood the risk of the money going missing, understood the risk of the money being lost gambling and understood the upside. All of the people who's names have been mentioned I would say have good judgement and thats why I hope it all gets sorted but sometimes well it doesent and people have to move on and take it on the chin as a lesson learnt.

I have a "debt" book of thousands in work that I have to chase for, I took on a job understood the risks and sometimes people wont pay. I will move on in life and learn not to do business with those people again.

There is a very logical reason.  Risk/reward. Pads, like all the other investors, make a living investing money and should calculate risk/reward accordingly.  If the plan had been executed properly by Stu we would have all had a great +EV investment and a win/win for everyone, including Stu, involved.  We could easily have still lost the entire £30k through the business plan.  However the business plan didn't involve someone not executing it and just turning it into a £30k interest free loan.

This is obviously aftertiming and results orientated because the hundreds of projects like this which pads and my investors go into every day/week/month which work successfully you never hear about so all the people who make statements like the above are just being results orientated with their comments.  They never say it about the 99% of successful projects mainly because they never hear about them to comment.

Fair enough Red - I guess it's simply the point you initially made that "vouch" means different things to different people.

Has anyone called the police?

No which was a big issue with the investors when the £12k had been stolen by a friend of a friend but when asked if the Police had been informed Stu choose not to comment.  It was pretty much at this point i knew the £30k had turned into an interest free loan.

I came up with two possible reasons off the top of my head.

1. You are good friends with the person being staked and they wouldn't get staked/lent money if you didn't do it.
2. The guy getting staked makes money from the venture and is able to pay you back what he owes you.

I'm sure there are more.

It's clear from your apparent incredulous reaction there is nobody on the planet that you'd vouch for and that is your choice. Fair enough.

But don't assume everyone has your set of values. I have vouched for one person in my life and he didn't let me down. There are maybe 4 or 5 others I'd do it for, and I'm as certain as I can be they would not let me down either.

Did you vouch for said person to a total stranger you had never met irl or had any financial dealings with?  I will probably correctly assume you didn't.

It doesn't matter who I made the vouch to, because I'm trusting my friend, not the guy I'm giving the guarantee to.

Come on Camel - there shouldn't be a negative light on people's values that they aren't willing to underwrite the credit risk of others?  It's not a character issue.  

I'm not putting any negative light on his values!

He doesn't trust trust anyone enough to guarantee a loan for. That is totally fine.

I do. Red dog does. That's totally fine too.

He seems to imply that I'm an idiot or naive for doing it, but I wouldn't do it lightly and would never guarantee more money than I could safely afford to lose.

where's Cos?

If this is the case and you have to pay in full when it goes wrong then you might as well just provide the investment in full at the start and have all the potential rewards if you are going to take 100% of the downside if it goes wrong.  Why is this so obvious i keep banging my head against my laptop trying to work out why people don't see this like i do?

Can someone with these old school views answer the above for me?  I posted it earlier but no one has provided a reply.

Because, obviously, the investment doesn't suit but I'm 100% certain the person I'm vouching for is not going to do the dirty.

But you would only gtd money which you could easily afford to lose so why not make the investment yourself as you must have money at this level lying around if you can easily afford to lose it otherwise how else are you going to pay if it goes wrong? Then you can take all the upsides of the investment rather than just doing ur cash?

Don't you realise how illogical your statement sounds from someone who makes a living from risk/reward?

I would never guarantee an investment was sure to make money.

I would guarantee my friend wouldn't scam investors though.

Those are obviously way different things.

 8h /:-|

I'm not really sure what we are arguing about any more to be honest.  Yourself and Red are willing to be guarantors to a select group full in the knowledge that you are giving up something as a favour.  Myself and Arb wouldn't.   Nobody is "wrong".  The only danger here is that vouch means one thing to you/Red and another thing to Arb/me which is a potential recipe for disaster if that difference in understanding is extended to the whole community!

Exactly. And it's why I got scammed for nearly $1000 a couple of years ago. A guy said he vouched for the player I was buying a share in and when he grimmed me, he refused to take on the debt.

I would never have bought a share without the vouch, so I felt very very sore.

At least I learned other people have a different definition of vouch than I do!

Phew feel safer now... as you were

Maybe that's it though Keith, One is to be a Guarantor for the transaction the other is to vouch for the person, seems like  two different things to me.

Hope all concerned get their money back.

A for instance.

My mate, who I trust absolutely, needs a Hiab lorry to lift a shed over a fence.

I send him to a friend of mine and say, "Tell him I sent you".

Then I get a phone call..

"Tom, there's a bloke in my yard who want's to borrow my lorry new Hiab lorry for an hour, he says he will look after it and bung me £100 when he brings it back. he said you would vouch for him".

I say, "Yes. If anything goes wrong, it's down to me".

This is, in effect, like I was lending him my new Hiab lorry, and that's what I call a vouch.

There is absolutely no benefit to me except I'm doing my mate a favour, but I know that if anything goes wrong, that mate will make it right with me.

This is the key.  I never said anything along these lines.  If i had decided to take on a 'bet' where i couldn't win but could lose by making that statement then i would obviously pay up.  I am not in the business of having bets where i can't win but i can lose.

And for the record, I never suggested that you did. I was just explaining what vouching means for me.

Sure.  That would be my definition of vouching for someone as well.  Which is why i would never do it for anything other than a trivial amount of money and both parties would have to be close friends as why would i provide 'insurance' for a party to a transaction i don't know.

Because your downside risk as you view it is not the full £10k on a £10k investment. It's probably closer to £10 as you just don't see it as being more than a 1000/1 shot or you wouldn't vouch in the first place.

That's how I see the "old school" view at any rate.

I really didn't want to get into the debate of this thread as the only thing I want to see from it is that Redarmi sorts himself out and makes things right with investors. There are already far too many people enjoying the thread/drama of the situation which is most disappointing.

However, Arbboy, you seem to be somewhat missing the point of what is being said to you.

You have said:

live:jockfourthree: he is 100% good for the money

he would never grim anyone

live:jockfourthree: i can gtd 2 things
[04/01/2015 03:56:34] live:jockfourthree: he will never ever grim anyone

You really shouldn't use phrases like these unless you really are willing to put up the money if things go wrong, imo.

Whether consciously or subconsciously, investors may have been swayed by such words and if it was me who said them I know I would feel on the hook for that money and in turn get my buddy to settle with me.

Absolutely right. In my mind there is zero risk of me losing because I TRUST THE PERSON I'M VOUCHING FOR 100%.

I'm just transferring that trust to a third party because he doesn't know my friend as well as I do.

I don't know why Arb can't grasp this concept. My turn to bang my head on the wall.

Why should total strangers feel they have the right to put me in a position to cold call me and ask these questions then free of charge and totally freeroll me?  Why do i owe the stranger anything?  He is the long term EV winner in this whether on a one off occasion he does his money or makes money.  He is getting additional information for free.  What do i get out of the situation.  Nothing when it works 99% of the time and all this ear ache the 1% of the time it doesn't. 

Could we move the vouch debate to a separate thread please. If someone cleverer than me could start a couch thread I would appreciate it.

Thank you.

Let's just stop the vouch nonsense all together.  It has nothing to do with this and wouldn't even be happening if my skype conversation hadn't been copied and pasted on here without my say so.  Anyone would think i was a salesman for stu and didn't have a substantial chunk of this myself.

Because you have every right to say "As far as I know he's fine but that's just an opinion. It's a lot of money so it's your call."

It really gets my goat when people come and and basically say others aren't allowed an opinion, and then go and express an opinion. Are you better than us? :dontask:

I don't owe a duty of care to a total stranger who i have never met before when he approaches me asking me information which is going to potentially make him rich and me skint with no upside.  He can ask me anything he wants but i don't understand why i should be libel for anything he chooses to believe which i told him.  Let the buyer beware.  

'Total strangers' is, imo a very dated way to look at it given you're both part of the same online community.

You totally freerolled yourself though. No stranger did that to you.

You did not have to answer any questions if you didn't want to. You could have also just said, 'In terms of people I've ever interacted with, I'd be most surprised if anything ever went wrong here' and that could have told Pleno what you think of Redarmi whilst being totally clear that you're not vouching for anything. As it turned out several of your iron clad statements were totally untrue and I'd have been most disappointed if I'd made a decision based on any of them and also if I'd made any of them and this happened, I would feel responsible.

Oops sorry. I didn't know it mattered what aspects of this we discussed on here but you are one of my absolute all time favorite people on blonde so out of respect for you I'll butt out.

Has anyone actually suggested you are liable(Libel being a lol slip, I thought)?

I definitely don't think you are liable, but agree that the wording used was overly positive. I agree with your Buyer Beware analogy, fwiw

Sorry your goat has been got.

Where in the line that you highlighted does it say people aren't allowed an opinion? I never said that. There have been many good posts in the thread.

I'm very confused by your post.

Not sure how you decide people are enjoying the thread/drama of the situation?

Unless you have some sort of emotion detector on your laptop to detect enjoyment, I guess it must be from the fact people are joining in, ie, contributing, therefore expressing an opinion, ergo....

silly post.

He's got a point - who do you think is enjoying the drama as opposed to just having an opinion?  Most people who have contributed on this thread in the last few pages probably think you're disappointed in them!

Ahh well that's not the case.

I really didn't mean my post to come across that way.

In sensitive threads such as these, I used to be one of the biggest trolls. Sure sometimes I had a point. Sometimes I may have even been bang on right but I enjoyed the drama too much and just caused hassle for no reason. Granted I've only seen a few posts that came across that way here (at least to me) but that was all I meant to express any displeasure at.

I am not someone who thinks they are above anyone else and anyone who knows me would know that hence why I responded in the way I did.

I assume Cos was talking about posts like this:


and this:


Which are basically "I told you so" posts and generally add zero to the issue apart from pissing off the people who have been burned.

You look like you have been waiting to do that all day Keith.

I'm glad you got the chance. Congrats.

Probably best ignored Cos.

Adz used to be a high-class troll, on the verge of Group 3 class, and at least decent handicap/Listed level. Unfortunately those heady days are behind him and he's sharp on the decline now.

Occasionally he'll get a response but it's not what it used to be. The earlier line about sports bettors was kind of a glimpse back to the glory days but, I don't know, somehow it still felt a bit needy?

^ This was just weak, selling class at best. It's a shame but the bottom line is he's just a shadow of his former self.

The words 'Hence' and 'Why' mean the same thing so you can use one or the other, you don't have to use both.


No need to thank me.  ;)

I know there's no need to thank you, but I'd really like to.

So thanks very much Tom. You......

:)

I wrote to you on 6 April

[06/04/2015 20:44:37] Patrick Leonard: we should make a group on Skype with him
[06/04/2015 20:44:43] Patrick Leonard: i don’t care about calling him out to blonde etc

I sent this on 28 April


[28/04/2015 08:23:03] Patrick Leonard: Hey let's make a skype group with stu and any other guys who want to join

You didn't reply.

I wrote to you again.

Wrote to you again on May 8

[08/05/2015 17:48:15] Patrick Leonard: Heard from stu???
[08/05/2015 17:48:22] Patrick Leonard: No contact in so long. You've handled this terribly. You were going to go weekends ago to fix this and still haven't.

I would like this to be fixed within 24 hours or will have no option but to make this public.
[08/05/2015 17:48:26] Patrick Leonard: I sent him this
[08/05/2015 17:48:30] Patrick Leonard: I'm posting on blonde tomorrow
[08/05/2015 17:48:34] Mark Wilson: no havent heard anything
[08/05/2015 17:48:39] Patrick Leonard: He asked me not to because he will lose his job
[08/05/2015 17:48:40] Mark Wilson: really started to piss me off tbh
[08/05/2015 17:48:51] Patrick Leonard: He said he was going to her house on April 22
[08/05/2015 17:49:01] Patrick Leonard: Now May 10th and he hasn't even emailed me back lnce
[08/05/2015 17:49:02] Patrick Leonard: Once
[08/05/2015 17:50:16] Mark Wilson: he only seems to react when he is pushed to the limit
[08/05/2015 17:50:22] Mark Wilson: he should be chasing us up constantly with updates
[08/05/2015 17:50:25] Mark Wilson: not the other way around
[08/05/2015 17:54:51] Patrick Leonard: exactly!!!!!!!
[08/05/2015 17:54:55] Patrick Leonard: u don't mind me posting on blodne right?
[08/05/2015 17:55:09] Mark Wilson: i couldnt care less
[08/05/2015 17:55:11] Mark Wilson: tbh
[08/05/2015 17:55:16] Mark Wilson: i just want my cash back
[08/05/2015 17:55:25] Mark Wilson: i would give him over the weekend to get back to you
[08/05/2015 17:55:32] Mark Wilson: as he might be busy work wise over weekend
[08/05/2015 17:55:35] Mark Wilson: but if nothing done by monday
[08/05/2015 17:55:39] Mark Wilson: then def
[08/05/2015 17:55:42] Mark Wilson: u have every right


I then wrote Stu an email and sent it to you immediately

Hi Stuart

I've tried to give this a week to boil over, but I'm really pissed about the whole situation. I want this to be something that gets resolves quickly. I don't want this to go 1 day past the end of the month, i.e. when the end of the month comes I want all money to be returned, not talked about being returned. I think the best way for this to happen is to make a Skype group with all investors to keep everything transparent


I then like I said wrote to you on 16 June, you didn't reply. A member then wrote to me knowing I was involved really pissed off.

I tried many, many times to try and get a Skype group up with investors, you were the only one who knew who was involved except for Stu, I had no idea. You were the guy who helped round the troops up initially.  No idea how anybody could be remotely pissed off at me for making this thread. I tried  time after time after time to try and resolve this in a good way.

If anybody is pissed off then feel free to post how you would have preferred I handled this better.

I think you (pleno) and arbboy and anyone else involved shouldn't be arguing amongst each other. You've been taken off the real focus by people saying what 'vouch' means to them!

Pleno already stated that he doesn't consider Arb liable and vice versa so why you two need to throw stones at each other is only going to take the focus off of Redarmi and getting your money back!

When you start a thread on an internet forum it's liable to wander off in any direction, that's how it works. You can't dictate who posts what where.

That wasn't what I was getting at. Pleno and Arb seemed to have turned on each other over the last few posts/attitudes towards each other have soured slightly - even thought they both believe the same. This won't help either party is all I mean.

Of course anything can be posted and has been, as demonstrated in this thread - I didn't argue that.

Not sure how any of this is helping the forum survival.

hope everyone gets their money back in an ordered way.

also, the idea that arbboy would be on the hook for anything is laughable obviously. it's well known in the community these days that vouch can have lots of different meanings, so the fact that a) it's 1000000000/1 that pads ever thought arbboy would stump up or that he was in any way agreeing or offering to do so and b) that they didn't clarify the sentiment exactly is very obvious.

also
if you think that
arbboys chat to pads
was a bit
enthusiastic
then maybe
just maybe
you haven't used
 the internet
before
where skype text chat
often looks more enthusiastic than it is
because
you type like this
which makes
it
staccato
and
more excitable.

It is good for the post count.  All joking aside this is nothing to do with blonde as a forum.  The investment scheme was never discussed or proposed on blonde prior to investment.  It was always private from start to finish.  I am happy for the whole thread to be deleted if people think it is negatively affecting blonde.

I have no issue with pads expecting me to pay him because he stated he doesn't.  I have no issue with Red dog or Camel (neither of whom think i should be on the hook for it) but have contributed to Couchgate today.  I have issue with certain posters implying that i should be on the hook for it from their posts.  I would have preferred pads to not post skype convo's without asking me first but that is done and dusted now.

Yo Pleno

I think Arbboy is unhappy about putting the Skype chats on the forum and not with you posting the details of the grim.   Saying he is ok with you outting Stu doesn't give you the right to post every private conversation you have had with Arbboy.

Correct and the two other non blonde investors are seriously fucked off that this went public without their knowledge as they think he might hinder their ability to be repaid and they had no say in it.  They are entitled to their opinion and they hold over 50% of the fund between them.

Because you bang on about what an expert you are, how you always stand behind your judgement and freely give 100 opinions when one is asked for - it's for this very reason I would never ask advice from someone with your traits. By the way, much as I find things like this highly amusing from a human condition point of view I don't think I or anyone else thinks you're on the hook for this money, about the only one who seems to think people are saying this, is you, obv. Because your world is all about arb and right now you look a bit dumb.

Unquestionably you gave a wholehearted, enthusiastic recommendation and many others take the view - 'why wouldn't you' which is fine I guess. I think it's ridic to make any kind of recommendation without any detailed knowledge of the person's financial position or personal P & L on this stuff. Pretty sure I know nothing but could construct a business plan showing my profitability in just about any field with a bit of swotting.

Anyway, I'm prepared to rule; you're not on the line for the money, it's just your judgement is naturally being questioned. Plus, in this particular case it's just such delicious schadenfreude for people like me as I've watched you so often ridicule everyone with a different judgement to you.

I'd like to say, 'hope everyone gets their money back etc' but I really don't care I've lost hundreds of thousands in pursuit of more - it just goes with the territory when we are driven by greed.

tbh they can have an opinion, but they can't have a veto. if they wanted that then they can take 100% of the investment ofc.

it's also not as if pads snap got annoyed and posted it, he discussed/thought about it a lot.

You obv have beef with me after calling me a coward and not responding to my PM

If the investors think they won't get paid now it is likely they weren't going to get paid before. Admittedly it puts slightly more pressure on redarmi but he would have either have repaid or not, and whether it has grown me public shouldn't have more of an affect then possibly slowing down the timeline. (It could also speed it up/help others from being scammed)

Yours faithfully

Stanley Unwin.

Blonde back to its glorious best.

Good luck guys getting your cash back but best bet is to write it off and learn from it.

I'm in the 'old school' when it comes to a vouch but for me to trust someone's vouch means I have to trust that person too.

What Mark said to Pleno in the Skype convo doesn't constitute a vouch in my opinion because they clearly don't know each other anyway. If they did then this wouldn't be all over Blonde as they'd have sorted it out between themselves.

I wouldn't dream of asking someone I don't know to vouch for someone else and expect it to hold any weight.

If I sent this person I don't know £30k on the say so of a few Skype conversations with someone else I don't know I think I'd just write off my £30k and be a bit more careful in future dealings with gamblers.

People are enjoying this thread too much, 3x the posts of arb's Stoke thread already, too many opinions, disgusting!

Pipe down and stop trolling sunshine  ;danafish;

PMSL Tom. too good

Its a hard one , in the gambling world u need to do it

I must say what I find quite amusing in this thread is the folk shuting troll, I guess what comes goes around comes around.   Followers of the Liverpool/Newcastle and Poltics threads will probably be thinking wtf as Arb is the biggest troll of them all.   He even seems to be trolling himself in this thread, top class.   

Got to say Kmac, I think Arbboy makes this place a much more interesting, colourful and knowledgable place, he can be very direct and upset people but his sports betting knowledge and posting style add so much more than you lose.

He tells it as he sees it, long may that continue for me.

 

I think this is very harsh. I am not Arboy biggest fan, but agree with Rick that he brings much more to the Blonde table than others. Although I do believe he has contradicted himself a couple of times in this thread.

However an important point that has been missed, and I am not trolling before anyone says it, but what on earth possessed Patrick to hand over £30k to a total stranger? I suspect it is easy to say in hindsight, but Patrick, you really do need to re-think things or go and seek some sort of professional help. It is completely insane.

Always amazes me how often the "tell it like I see it" types are absurdly sensitive to personal criticism. Not intended as a troll, just an observation. I don't really follow blonde enough to know if that applies to arbboy.

That would be insane, if that had happened.

Not as insane as page 15, sellers of Aaron pages in a worse position than Stu backers.

I don't dispute that and I like much of what he posts but he is also a massive troll. 

I know pads doesnt do too well playing chinese but aaron now has him 30k down playing chinese whispers.

No idea what possessed him to do it - perhaps he asked someone who knew the stranger for advice. We may never know.

Wasn't the total stake £30K? Not the amount Patrick staked or have I misread the thread?

It's a bit confusing, it looks like the 30k was made up of other investors money, then Pads added more.

Not sure though.

As a tell it like it is type of guy I will correct the errors here. Hope this isn't classed as trolling correcting people who talk nonsense about something they know nothing about on a public forum and which doesn't affect them in the slightest apart from their own amusement and entertainment.  The total investment was £30k into the fund. Pads has around 10% of that as far as I am aware. No idea where pads having £30k himself comes from.  The biggest single investor of the fund by a long way is one of the two non blondes.

Most people who make a living backing their opinions are not fans of their opinion being criticised without the other opinion being willing to back up their opinion with hard cash.  Talk is cheap. I never mind being criticised as long as the other person is willing to back their opinion up with cash and not just talk the talk who disagrees with me.  I very much expect the vast majority of posters on blonde to not enjoy my style but I don't really care less.  If you like making money bet what I back. You get it for free. My TFT Roi is nearly double betting emporiums horse racing Roi which costs a fortune.  If you don't like money and hate my style sorry for offending you but this is a gambling forum.

Bit surprising that Patrick started this thread over a missing 3k. From reading the posts it felt like he was in for far more.

Obviously he has every right to be pissed off, but I'm pretty sure most people in his spot would let the biggest single investor decide the best course of action to recover the money.

Which was why the silent non blonde investors were so fucked off about this thread potentially upsetting the apple cart regarding payment.

We have to enter into a bet if we want to disagree with you?

As we are on a Gambling forum and the vast majority of discussion I make is about betting if someone disagrees with my opinion it would be totally logical to bet on it.  It is easy to say 'everyone has an opinion' that Is correct but everyone's opinion in my world is not worth the same otherwise 98% of gamblers wouldn't lose because their opinion isn't as accurate as the other 2% who win. If I get ten opinions on a race or match I don't use all ten opinions equally to formulate my investment on said game.  I appreciate most people don't look at things like I do but most people with the greatest of respect don't use their opinions to make their living.

So if you think Andy Murray will win Wimbledon and I don't, I have to pay to say so?

As I posted in my last post (will quote now)




I tried for 3 months for this to be done off forum, when arrboy stopped replying to me for 3 weeks and other people were writing to me I felt like the only way for this ever to be resolved was for it to become public.

We should have had a Skype group set up almost immediately, if I had known everybody who was involved (I knew nobody at all) then I would have instantly created the group.

I even got paid back around half of the £3k, its funny that people associate how pissed off we should be by how much is invested. If I have £1 or £29,999 invested I have exactly equal right to be pissed off, especially if as Arrboy has said dozens of times itt that the £30k was used as an interest loan.

If "silent non blonde investors were so fucked off about this thread potentially upsetting the apple cart regarding payment" then the person they should be fucked off with surely shouldn't be myself. Stu has chosen to pay back Arrboy in part either out of guilt or because he caught him and he chose to pay me back because I wanted this to be resolved and if that meant public I would do it. What about sonour who hasn't seen a penny because she hasn't been as in the know as others or as brutal in terms of bribing.

IMO, all money should be returned and shared out evenly and there should be an exact plan made by Stu as soon as possible with exactly who is in, how much they are owed and when/how/where they will be paid.

This is a stupid thing for me to do as I've probably been paid back a higher % of my investment than anybody else but I hate seeing myself or others mugged off like this.

It has shown me that the gambling world is completely out of touch with the real world and poker disputes are resolved way, way better.

In poker there is usually the following created and then removed once returned.

http://dominicmorleyisathief.com

It is usually updated and then deleted once everything is returned. If acceptable correspondence from the thief then the site can be negotiably taken off or edited.

IMO Arrboy/Myself and whoever else (Stu should say who) should all put the money back to Stu and it should be sent evenly around us and there should be very strict deadlines and firm instructions on how and when we get paid. That is the fair way for all involved. I felt sorry and almost guilty to Lisa and felt extremely mugged off for 3+ months and thats why I created the thread, not so I could receive an extra 1500 back.

If u talk to the talk shouldn't u put right your 100% guarantee with money? After all talk is cheap

No but i would respect your opinion much more if you were willing to back it up with cash.  I hear a million voices a day who tell me this, that and the other but very few talk with their wallet.  The ones who do tend to be more reliable and worthwhile to listen to imo.  That is my point.  I find it much easier listening to people who's opinions they back up with money rather than hot air.  

I find it amazing when i 'troll' people it is very similar to the poking and needling style you use to create an argument yet no one ever calls you and Camel trolls yet what you two have done on this thread is pretty similar to what i get called a troll for on the football fans forums.  I suppose that comes with the terrority and post count and history on blonde.

You are out of pocket by 1500, not 30k ?

Yes George, no George, 3 bags full george.  Is it trolling?  I know you have waited a long 5 years to get your comeback from the Blatch issue.  I can tell it has been worth the wait.  All the blatchgate guys have come out of the woodwork and made it very clear i should be on the hook for the money.  Everyone else says i shouldn't.  Please make your needle less obvious.  You all look very sour.

Why can't people read the original posts.  The total fund was £30k.  When did it ever say Pads had £30k of investment in this?  Why can't people read with their own eyes rather than just follow the blonde trolling sheep in their little herd?

I replied to u by email explaining my comments which u chose to ignore. The only bitter one is you who thinks he should get some sort of knighthood cos u outed blatch.

U talk the talk but when it comes down to it you can't back your poor judgement with money. Simple

Good one mate, I laughed.  rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao

You respect people opinion when they back it up with cash? U said 100% stu wouldn't grim. Where's your  money?

Your email was just a set of statements which there was nothing to respond to.  You asked no questions so what was i supposed to reply to exactly?  I don't really want to post your pm but it contains nothing offensive.  You can post mine if you want to be childish to have a pop.  I stand by what i said.


It's not actually a pop. Read back what I've put. I'm referring to the betrayal of someone you trust than anything monetary.

I hope you get your money back but more importantly find some peace with Stu.

As to not speaking to you- I've always found the situation a little awkward. From the best of my recollection we've never actually shared a table together despite being at numerous events- I have no particular beef with you. I just thought you might now emphathise a little more with those of us who were in Blatch's corner even though to you it was clear he was on the take

George

What exactly was i supposed to reply to?  We are not friends it sounded pretty much like a closing email to our brief discussion.

Look like they could do with their money back tbf.


http://twononblondes.co.uk/

An acknowledgment that your wrong? I've not been waiting for this day to come.

.

Please don't start that vouch thing again. Arbboy isn't going to give Pads the money and even if he did Pads wouldn't take it. I don't care who thinks Arbboy should give Stu the money and who doesn't. That's a separate issue and thread please.

It's not Arbboy who's in the wrong here it's Stu.

He hasn't grimmed Pads.  He has paid back half of pads money already.  I know you are hanging onto the vouch thing desperately to have your pop you have waited for 5 years for.  It is understandable after your running mate did what he did.  All the rational people in the thread all agree i am not on the hook for it but the two guys with the most needle from Blatch are, unsurprisingly, the only two who think i should be on the hook for it.  Sorry, desperate and sad.  Move on lads.  

I know but the Blatch fan boys who worshipped him and living off his false roll for a year have waited for long for this moment so let's give them their 10 minutes in the sun.

I'm not starting the vouch thing. I'm referencing from arrboys posts.

You're the one being irrational. This has nothing to do with blatch. It has to do with u on the one hand saying u back your judgement with cash and on the other doing the opposite.

You have every right to do whatever you think is right to attempt to get your money back.

I'm just saying for example, if you are owed 3k and someone else is owed 15k, most people in your spot would let the 15k person decide the best course of action.

As long as everyone is paid proportionally the same amount of course.

I would freak out massively if 15k man was paid in full before I got a penny. If he gets 3k, you should 600 etc etc.

The two grieving Blatch guys post as often in the sports betting threads as i consume Slim fast.  All of a sudden they are all over this thread with no involvement at all.  Don't look too bitter guys.  I never started the thread.  I was happy for it to never hit blonde and stay totally underground.  It would have sorted itself out in time one way or another.

The trolls have had a couple of days of entertainment for free misquoting things and not reading the detail but everyone's opinion is worth the same even those who don't bother to read the information given to hand.  All is good.

I don't know who has what invested mate. I have literally zero idea. Thats why I suggested multiple times to create a Skype group and discuss it. I did not know at all who was involved, all emails didn't have cc; in etc

Why do u keep bringing up blatch?  I'm referencing your big shot posts about backing your judgement with money.

You obviously have an obsession with the guy which u haven't managed to lay to rest. I hope u find some sort of peace with it

Any reason George why just you and Cos think i should be on the hook for the money but everyone else agrees i shouldn't be?  Just coincidence?  Seems a big price to me. lolzzzzzzzzzzzz  The two guys who called me all manner of things during blatchgate (but everyone knew at the time supposedly) yet for days you kept telling me how clueless i was, how little i knew and how i was totally wrong until the shit hit the fan and then they looked so stupid like i do now which is why you are even getting involved in this thread.  There is no other reason for you to get involved.  I got involved in blatchgate to save two friends from investing £10k into the fund.  What is your reason for getting involved in this other than your own entertainment?

If everyone knew as ironside said why were you two so in the dark in the days leading up to him being exposed?  Everyone has an opinion though right?  Just some people's are more valuable/informed than others.  It all comes back to the same thing i suppose.

What do i do for a living george?  Back my judgement with money.  Leave the vouch straw alone.  It is the only thing you are grasping to to stay relevant in this thread.

My only obsession is people who can't admit they were wrong and say sorry after calling me all manner of things on a forum then i was proved to be right all along.  Then everytime in the next 5 years they see me in public they are too much of a coward and man to pull me to one side and say 'sorry i was wrong about what i said and you were right all along'.  Instead they would rather walk past me and look the other way every time we are in the same building.  You are a coward.  I stand by what i said in the PM.  Now you are getting your payback getting involved in something you have no business even commenting on.

I'll go through this point by point because it's clear that although your betting tekkers are world class your ability to read isn't great.

1) my initial comment was referring to trusting someone. When u sent those Skype messages to pleno u had implicit trust of stu. This is exactly how I felt re Neil. Despite the overwhelming evidence at the time I took his word against all of that because I trusted him. My initial post on this thread wasn't anything to do with the money. It was regarding trust and how u must now feel because someone has let u down after you have him such a huge endorsement.

2) I don't believe your on the hook for the money re your original Skype convo. I never have

3) your comments regarding talk is cheap etc etc is more what I'm referring to. If u really believe this you'd make right the debt.

4) i have no vendetta grudge or ill will over blatchgate and never have. Not have I been waiting for this day to come

Why are you here?  This has nothing to do with you.  Explain why you care so much when you never ever post in sports betting threads?  Everyone knows why you care so much so just admit it.  Your argument about the vouch is in total disagreement with all the usual blonde clique you have fallen in line with for years over most issues.  Play your hand less face up.  We all know why you are here.

I've already addressed that. I'm not gonna seek you out. If we were ever on the same table perhaps we would have spoken but I doubt even from the blatch thing aside we would've ever got on. So why should I be fake and seek u out?

If u believe I'm a coward you're entitled to your opinion. I obviously disagree

See point 1. That was my initial reason. Ur choosing what u want to address and what u don't. As usual. Talk is cheap

...

So you call people all manner of things on a public forum and are proved to be totally wrong and you can't pull said person to one side for 5 seconds and just say 'i was totally wrong on that i am sorry'.  I don't expect to be remotely friendly with you but a real man could easily have done that rather than spend 5 years at DTD walking past me with a sheepish look as you look the other way as i walk past you.  You have to wait until a random number draw puts us on the same table to be a man and say sorry for your actions.  Coward. End of.  Please don't ever talk to me again.  

AFAIK I have never called you a troll or anything else unpleasant or accused you of any wrongdoing of any kind and as for being "On the hook" I actually stated in this thread that in my opinion that is not the case.

I may have had the temerity to hold a different opinion to yours occasionally, but if I have I've tried to air it in a civil manner.

If what you say is true and other people think that you are a troll and I am not, I can hardly be held responsible for that.

I'm offended that you think I'm poking and needling, although I will admit to being annoyed by the suggestion that I have to "Put my money where my mouth is" If I want to have an opinion.

You keep telling us how fortunate we are to have the benefit of your wisdom, well perhaps that's true but my God it comes at a heavy price.

I'm sorry you feel the need to lash out every time there is a hint of criticism, and I hope that with time, you learn to deal with it better.

Pads,

I don't think anyone should give any money back to Stu to redistribute. I'd also like to request that Stu sends a list of investors and amounts to the poker player that owes money and ask him to send the money pro rata to the investors directly.

We really have no idea what financial position Stu is in. He may have a large overdraft that would swallow up any money sent.

If £4k was lost betting, £12k stolen by a friend of a friend, £3k owed by a poker player. Then that leaves £11k. We know £1500 was repaid to Pads and £500 to Arbboy.

I really think it's about time Stu told us what happened to the other £9k that he promised to send weeks ago. Stu, if you don't want to reply on here then an email to all investors please.

I've never spoken to u anyway ;)

U deffo have baggage over the affair. One day that call from the Queen will come. For services to blatchgate arise sir arrboy

You're handling of the whole affair put me off too. There's ways to go about things. You're as subtle as a sledgehammer

I have sent over 20 emails in the past 3 months asking the same question Mrs Bandit to stu.  I asked him as a friend to open up and let me know if there are personal issues he wants to discuss with me outside of the money.  ie family issues which have caused this/crisis etc.  Literally nothing has come back.  He stands by his story (which doesn't add up like you say otherwise there would be £11k sitting in his bank)  Like you say the maths is simple.  There is £11k 'missing'.  He has never once commented on that in numerous replies i have had from him.  I get the impression he is never going to tell us where the money went.  I think we have to accept that now and move onto collecting the money.

John has also sent a detailed email to him which he showed me prior to sending saying the same thing.  He is currently in vegas playing the wsop main event and hasn't got back to me as to whether stu has replied.

I just don't like being called out in public and the people calling me out were wrong yet ever since they haven't been man enough to say sorry and acted like a weasal around me in public at any time they have been in the same room as me.  It is as simple as that.

Incred.  

Course i was.  That's why the whole thing came to an end and my friends didn't do £10k on the coup.  Sometimes you have to be a bit aggro and step away from being a yes man in a clique following blindly like sheep.  I never worry about swimming against the tide.  You should try it sometime.  Everyone knew george but you were always in the dark until the shit hit the fan.  So maybe everyone didn't know.

Anyway can you fuck off now and let the people on here sort this out as Mrs Bandit has requested.  You have had your ten minutes in the sun.  Hope you enjoyed it.  First time you have opposed the blonde clique in your life with an opinion.  You must be feeling rather heady and need to sit down and cool off.

It's the way u handle yourself. Doesn't lend to u being remotely approachable.

Anyone who knows me then and since know my character. I wouldn't weasel out of anything.

I took him at his word just as u have with stu

Yes Arbboy trusted Stu totally initially but he was still the one to expose all this. He smelt a rat and asked for his and his mates money back and that's when it all unravelled.

He didn't let the fact he trusted Stu stop him from seeing that something wasn't right.

No sledge hammer was used either just a quiet word to stu asking wtf was going on and can we have our money back.  I am branching out into different styles to get things done.

In all seriousness i thought my thoughts in early Feb within weeks of it starting but i couldn't pull the trigger that early on someone i trusted for so long.  I am really annoyed i didn't pull the trigger earlier looking back.  It has taught me to just go with my gut straight away if this ever happens again.  Then me and John spoke about it in detail at my house one night when he asked to put a bet on for us we thought was no value at all then we decided to act.

It was more the bets he wasn't having consistently though than the bets he was having.  Me and John went to Uttox races one Saturday during the stake and we backed like 7 horses ew in a crazy 16 runner hcap where there was ev flying out of the satchels.  Stu decided to bet one horse in the race for £100 ew.  We should have had 20% of our bankroll invested in that race given the edge we had.  It just made no sense given he was backing horses daily to not get involved massively in the best betting race of the day.

I know 0 about sports betting if it was my arena perhaps I wouldve sussed something. He was telling me one thing some random acting really aggressive on a forum said another. I chose to trust the person I thought I knew.

Sorry I don't agree with that. He should be made to account for the missing money. He should also be made to provide details of the friend and the friend of a friend or admit it wasn't true. Stu is alleging theft and that is a serious matter.

Sure i agree totally.  I have asked him if the Police (no gags please from Blatch fans!) were called.  I think this is a reasonable question to ask given someone has effectively stolen £12k from him.  I have asked for an audit trail of where the money has gone since it was transferred to his bank.  I have pretty much asked for anything possible to prove his story is nonsense.  We all know it is.  He knows it is.  I am getting the opinion that he just thinks he can pay it back in his own time and not have to answer questions.  I don't really know what else i can do/ask him as he just doesn't answer any questions relating to these key issues.

He isn't stupid.  He has been a board director on a PLC gaming company in his late 20's.  He knows all about reporting/audit trails etc etc.

He clearly hasn't got the money.  Where it has gone is anyone's guess.  Spinning it up to try and get out is probably fav.  Family crisis/medical bills in the USA for his family are possible.  TBH i have asked so many times and got nothing back at all yet he still emails me and just avoids the tricky questions i am getting to the point where as long as we get our money back i couldn't actually care what he has done with the money.  I can't do anymore than i have to get blood out of a stone,  in reality if he doesn't want to tell us where the money went wtf can we realistically do?  Given his career/job i would find it highly unlikely he would risk that by not paying back in full eventually.  He has no other income streams so his job is highly important to him.

I don't want this to come across as standing up for him or being in on the coup etc but i am just being realistic after spending hours and hours typing emails and skypes to try and get him to open up to me as a mate about it.

I am all ears if you have other ideas which will help get the money back quicker.  Personally i am past caring where it is gone.  I just want the money repaid asap by him which he says he will do.  It is in his interests for his job and image in the game to sort it asap logically.

For the record I wasn't involved in Blatchgate and I'm not involved in this and I still think you should have been on the hook for Pads' stake. This is purely based on my opinion that a vouch is a vouch and a gentleman is true to their word.

Ok thanks.

You're welcome

Out of curiosity I looked up the name of said company. Interesting. Definitely made a bad bet here*. Hindsight is 20/20 though http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/09/10/1094789682868.html?from=storyrhs

*the company I mean

Just to clarify Arb when I asked Dubai to vouch for our Watford bet I don't expect him to pick up the tab if I disappear underground when we've got 8 points at Christmas ;)

Yes it's amazing looking back.  I worked for said business as well in early 2005.  That is how i first met Stu as he was the trading director.  It was definitely an eye opener working for scott and walker.  wwts was a huge business back then in 2005.

Yeah I was one of the few people writing about the industry back then. WWTS probably a top 10 player. Now it doesn't exist and Sportsbet is absolutely massive. Albeit a fundamentally different business.

I bet you have some stories....

Scott was insane.  I remember going out for dinner with him and walker in a lovely beach side restaurant in Antigua and these places are full of honeymoon couples the local bands cruise along the beach looking for tips to play some music next to a dinner table.  All very cheesy.  We were having dinner when an awful collection of local guys rocked up on the table next to us and started playing.  Scott was annoyed and called them over and said 'how much for you guys to play on our table?'  They said something like $50.  Scott said 'listen you are driving me nuts here is $1000 now fuck off and don't let me ever see or hear you again.'

Getting your tax free salary paid in cash was quiet a novelty as well for the first few months!

https://twitter.com/pokeralex/with_replies

This guy was head of the poker operation which was booming in 2005.  He was the real star of the company bringing in huge numbers of poker players to the business and is the guy who got me into poker.  Not sure if anyone knows him.  He run sun poker on crypto after leaving wwts.

No problem!

Ha! Someone really needs to write a book about those days. I'm available as a ghost writer for anyone interested :)

Never heard of that guy. Is he a pro or still in the industry?

I assume he is still in the industry.  He used to play big stakes back in those days when it was really soft.  I haven't spoke to him for a long time.  never met anyone that could eat more than alex.  He was an incredible eater.  Typical OHIO yank.  All USASUAUSASUUAS!

Arb,

Do you think there is any merit inviting all known investors to a Skype group ? We need a plan. Probably should be handled in private from here.

I am waiting for Stu to get back to me regarding his payment proposal which i assume he will be sending to everyone else.  If you haven't already i would email stu and ask him the same questions i have regarding the whereabouts of the missing '£11k' which should be sitting in his bank.  Maybe you will get a better response than i did.

I assume everyone else got this email dated 25 june?

Hi,

Could you send me your IBAN and Bic numbers so I can send you a bit more money. Am going to try and pay some monthly from my salary etc. If xxxxxxxxx pays his balance then we will be close (about £1500 light) of being able to pay everyone bar xxxxxx who I have a separate arrangement with (on that I have received his agreement and just need to clarify one minor issue and will be good to go. Will email him tomorrow). Also be aware because funds will generally be coming from my irish account after conversion it will be a funny amount so just keep a note and we will find a way to balance it off when we are wrapping it all up.

Stuart

This would imply he still has the remaining £11k in cash somewhere to make that statement.  Given the non blonde investors are in vegas at the wsop i assume once that finishes they will tie up that with stu and payments will be made.  If anyone else has any other emails from stu since can you post them if they are different to above.

I deffo log onto Blonde for entertainment. Folk shouldn't get their knickers in a twist about people who do that. I mean Tikay's pictures of bridges and ducks can only carry the forum so far.

And sorry but the fact that arbboy got blatched is pretty goddam entertaining. Don't forget these are really trivial amounts for these guys, "flicking it in" on a daily basis etc.

Few things...
- Pleno1 you're idea to give all the money back to the grimmer to redistribute is a proper shit idea
- arbboy you said the sheep run around in their little herd, it's flock mate, flock!
- RED-DOG ur posts do needle, it's a good style, slick & sophisticated

Wise words met

Mantis and nirvana have squared the circle here with their posts.

Well put gents.

I didn't get that email. In fact I don't get any of the group emails. No idea why.

Always puzzles me these people who are superb at sports betting and been doing it for many years  are never laying their bets via vpn from their private mansion in Bermuda,  logic would dictate if they were half as good as they claim they would be multi. but no usually their potless and roll out the same old excuses, variance,life issues, bad luck.

how about deluded, egotistical narcissists who think their cut above everyone because they scape a wage without having to go to work for a living

Logic would dictate if these trolls were half as good as they claim they would have found a post worth trolling in the last 5 years.

Exactly what have I claimed to be good at ?

I log on to provide and receive entertainment. It is nice to give a bit back to the system which provides you with a living.  I am happy to be the bad guy whilst quietly taking all your punting money via the firms through the back door.  It definitely helps you get on acting like a twat.  Bookies are far more likely to give you a spin than if you are serious on course as has been the case at uttoxeter races tonight.  Some of you need to realise it is only ever business with me.  I don't know anyone on here well and wouldn't consider anyone on blonde as a proper mate, several gambling acquaintances at best.  Most of you are just random strangers and customers to me via the system.  I do have to laugh how seriously some of you take things when you are not even financially involved.  It does provide a chuckle.

Your post is spot on. Pads shouldn't give any of the money back it is his and he is still owed.  I am not giving my £500 back to anyone which I have already been paid. I was wrong with the herd but I am a numbers pro and have never been good with words and failed English at school because I was too busy doing further maths instead as that was my future. Finally red dog is a great needler and troll but never gets called one because of his legend status which is fair enough.  If I made the same posts as he does on my account I would be called a troll I know that or if he made the same posts under my name on blonde.  Nothing has changed since 2010.  I give far more to blonde than I can ever take.  I don't want any credit because the entertainment factor is priceless on here.  It is always important to keep the customers coming back to make sure they don't get bored.  You sell them dreams and pieces of paper ( betting slips) in return for proper money.  Some people do Twitter some people do blogs. Blonde is my release. It is good entertainment,  loads of people love it. I know that from my pm's. Quite incredibly so many people actually pm me to actually agree with me even though they couldn't be seen to say it live and direct on blonde.

didnt realise you had to be a regular poster to have an opinion. I had better send my payment to arbboy

Why don't you tell us your real name and then we can talk like men.  Everyone on here mostly knows each other on first name terms. It is easy hiding behind a mask.

Certain spineless weasels on blonde say I am totally unapproachable in real life but I would imagine the vast majority of blondes who have ever spoken to me in real life would say the total opposite.  It is an easy excuse to use when you can't be a man and admit your opinion was wrong.

Yes I am opinionated (sorry for that it is my job) yes I like a drink yes I am loud and have a huge ego but if you ever actually get to know me like a few blondes have you might get to see the real me.  You might learn a few things have some fun and make a few quid as well. If you prefer not to I won't take offence, I learnt twenty five years ago the vast majority of society don't like my style.  I am lucky enough to not have to give a fuck and live in the corporate world to give a fuck what anyone thinks about me.

Anyone else see these?

I assume Stu was hacked. Theyve been deleted now anyway:

why is it wrong ? because YOU say so ? are you a millionaire because according to you your one of the best there is

:)

They can't be real surely those tweets? He has nicked 30 large from us. He needs that a year to eat it won't last long.  I wouldn happily do my cash in this coup if he thinks he can have us over and live off thirty large.   Losing a couple of grand to find out a so called good mate is a fraud is cheap IMO.  It could end up far more expensive further down the line.

He could easily have got six figures to run this coup if he was smart so I can't possibly believe those tweets. You only get one shot to pull off a coup like this.  I can't believe anyone would do it and tweet like that for thirty large.  If he has all the best of British to him.

 He hasn't even nicked thirty large because he has paid a chunk back.

You are too easy Mark, pretty much his entire previous posting history consisted of amateur trolling of the Blatch thread.

Was thinking surely nobody would bite this time.

Why doesn't he tell us who he is.  Everyone knows I am a fat ugly ego driven opinionated twat.  Why are others so shy to hide who they are whilst they run their mouth?

Mustve been hacked by a troll

How easy is it to hack a Twitter account? I have no idea.  Can't be that easy.  I would happily do my cash if stu actually posted that for real.  Very cheap price to find out the truth about a so called good friend.

why? do you know everyone by name in the country.even if i told you you wouldnt know me, im not part of your 'world'. i posted an opinion, whether you agree or not is not the issue.im entitled to it, it was a generalisation and not aimed at anyone particular but it would seem a general opinion is trolling ?? lol

You are talking to the biggest troll on blonde mate. The trouble is you haven't posted since blotch gate five years ago. I have been trolling week in week out for years.

i can read though

Why would u take five years to make another post ? Long time to just read after only ever posting du.e to blotch. Which part of the gang are you? Would be amazing if you are blatch yourself re appearing. I laid someone today a 1600/100 bet blatch re appears in his own name this week following stu gate on blonde.  You might save me a £1600 pay out posting under a different name.

i have to confess i forgot my password until recently but an avid lurker i am :), but Blatch im afraid not

This is becoming like a bad episode of Eastenders.

Half expect Dirty Den or Nick Cotton to appear next!

As a Twitter poster Keith which I am not what are your thoughts on the likelihood of his account being busted ? I would say it is highly unlikely.

I do t really understand these threads. I mean, I get starting it. But 22 pages and no one is any nearer getting their money back. How?

Pads has half of his money back. The rest ain't that bothered. I will vouch for that!!! Lolzzzzz

"................... are like deaf people who go on answering questions that no one has asked them"

A quote for Historians but I like it

Quite big odds against, but not impossible.

A few famous celebs have had their accounts hacked with funny results.

cmon, we had 15 pages debating arbboys definition of a vouch. you expect forward movement of the actual point?.however the digressions are amusing, oh oh im being amused,another red flag im so bad

Twitter is quite secure I would say. Although anything can be hacked. Maybe he just hot cold feet and deleted? I don't know him really. Do you think he would do something like that?

It's about 1/20 you are regular poster wheeling out your special troll account.

pretty sure if that was the case i could have used it to excellent effect somewhere over the last five years

think twitter is less secure than pokerstars and thats hacked quite often, were the tweets from his account? the most likely accounting from them is a "mate" getting fold of his phone or what ever and posting them as a laugh

Why would a 'mate' do that tho?

Maybe it was the

can you remember what the shrewdies used to do to each other on blonde?
have you seen the "frapes" on facebook

when i say mate i really means someone that he knows that might have thought it was funny

Twitter isn't particularly secure fwiw.

I mean can you even be sure he has access to the account?

Aye but the shrewdies were quite funny, except the fat ginger one.

Posting that on Twitter as a 'joke' is pretty serious.