blonde poker forum

this is early i know but we can cover the play offs and onwards

shaping up to be a corker isn't it? all the better for having northern ireland and wales in it

Pelle top scored in qualification for italy

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQMc5WhoQrKYdNpr5tWF2A4Goio0sfMeDIBel3NhXJqsH9gDe-mGA)

belgium won their group

(http://www.jewishnews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/HAZARD1.jpg)

a golden generation, apprently

(http://e0.365dm.com/14/09/660x350/gareth-bale-goal-celeb-andorra-wales-european-qualifier_3202108.jpg)


meanwhile

oh dear

(http://i3.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/article6601451.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/JS74066347.jpg)

oh dear

(http://e2.365dm.com/15/10/16-9/20/holland-czech-republic_3363770.jpg?20151013221323)

 The eight teams finishing third will contest four two-legged play-off ties.

They are:

Bosnia (Group B)

Ukraine (Group C)

Republic of Ireland (Group D)

Slovenia (Group E)

Hungary (Group F)

Sweden (Group G)

Norway (Group H)

Denmark (Group I)


The draw for the play-offs will take place on 18 October.

through

Czech
Iceland
Turkey
Belgium
Wales
Spain
Slovakia
Germany
Poland
England
Switzerland
Northern Ireland
Romaina
Austria
Russia
Italy
Croatia
Portugal
Albania

and the hosts, France

The draw for next summer's Euro 2016 finals will take place on Saturday December 12 in Paris at 1700 GMT.

The teams will be drawn into six groups of four from four pots of seeds.


Both the hosts, France, and the defending champions, Spain, are automatically among the top seeds with France having already been placed in Group A. The four teams joining Spain in pot one will being determined by the UEFA national team coefficient ranking which will be published once November's play-offs have taken place (see above). Were the current rankings to be used, the four other top seeds would be Germany, England, Portugal and Belgium, who edged ahead of Italy after the final round of qualifiers.

The make-up of the other pots will also be determined by the rankings with the next six best-ranked teams in pot two and so on.

It is worth noting the UEFA ranking is considerably different to the FIFA world rankings. For example, while Wales are ranked eighth by FIFA, they are currently only 28th on UEFA's list. That means they, like Northern Ireland, are likely to be in the fourth pot on draw day.

Key dates

Oct 18 - Play-off draw
Nov 12-17 Play-offs
Dec 12 - Finals draw
May 31 - Squad deadline
Jun 10 - Finals begin
Jul 10 - Euro 2016 final

The finals themselves take place in France from Friday June 10 to Sunday July 10 next year. With the tournament having been expanded to 24 teams, it will now last as long as a World Cup, stretching over a four-week period, as opposed to three as has been the case with the previous 16-team events.

Only eight of the 24 nations will be eliminated in the group phase with the top two in each group plus the four best third-placed teams progressing to the last-16 knockout stage - for those old enough to remember, the format is reminiscent of the one used at the Italia 90 World Cup.

Which third-placed team slots in where in the last-16 draw is already set but is subject to a pretty complicated explanation - details can be found in the official tournament regulations.

The final will take place in the Stade de France in Paris, venue for the 1998 World Cup final. It is the largest of the 10 venues with a capacity of 80,000.

The semi-finals will take place in Lyon and Marseille which, along with Lille, are the other stadia which hold more than 50,000.

The capital will also stage matches at Paris Saint-Germain's Parc des Princes ground, while Bordeaux, Lens, Nice, Saint-Etienne and Toulouse are the other cities chosen to host games.

World champions Germany are currently the 3/1 favourites for Euro 2016

Hosts France can be backed at 7/2, with holders Spain only third favourites at 13/2.

England are fifth in the outright market at 11/1, behind 9/1 shots Belgium, while traditional continental powerhouses Italy are out at 16/1.


Sky Bet also currently bet on who will start England's first game of the tournament. Twelve players are odds-on but the shortest prices suggest this will be the XI: Hart, Clyne, Smalling, Cahill, Baines, Henderson, Milner, Walcott, Sturridge, Rooney, Sterling.

John Stones is the other player currently odds-on. Ross Barkley, who has impressed in recent games, is out at 9/4.

There's also a market for players to make the England squad with 25 players currently odds-on - only 23 will make the trip.

Taking out the longest-odds player from the defence, midfield and forward options and adding a third keeper (only two are odds-on) you get the following squad:

Hart, Butland, Forster, Cahill, Smalling, Stones, Baines, Jagielka, Clyne, Jones, Bertrand, Henderson, Milner, Barkley, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Lallana, Delph, Wilshere, Rooney, Sterling, Kane, Walcott, Sturridge.

When the book was opened in May, the expected squad had a different look to it:

Hart, Foster, Forster, Cahill, Baines, Smalling, Jones, Clyne, Stones, Shaw, Jagielka, Henderson, Sterling, Milner, Lallana, Walcott, Delph, Wilshere, Carrick, Rooney, Sturridge, Kane, Welbeck.

Was just talking about this at work today don't think there are really good sides apart from Germany and Spain but even they have holes in their sides otherwise I think it's up for grabs,the Belgium side are very disappointing to me with the amount of talent at their disposal and play some very uninspiring football.

Looking forward to this, and hopefully it won't be like the last WC out in Vegas :(

I'm going over for the first week of this and really looking forward to it as I've never done a major finals.
We have tickets for 3 games in Bordeaux and Toulouse, flights and accommodation sorted as well as my mate has property there.

I'd never applied for tickets to a major summer football tourn before and me and 3 mates thought it might be like the olympics/rwc. Ended up with 4x tickets to 17 games! Will wait to see what we got once the draw is made but will definitely be selling a few back. If anyone wants some, happy to sell at face for those games we decide not to go to.

Couple mates of mine went travelling in 1998, which ended up with them doing Le Mans, and the whole WC. So long ago, I can't remember what games they went to, but they said it was incred, and obv makes for some lifelong memories.

Definitely more exciting than watching them with a hangover and a fruit plate, at the Nugget ;D

24 nations seems way too many. Basically almost everyone gets in apart from San Marino, Andorra and Scotland?

This. 100% this

can we make it 32 nations next time please


oh wait scotland still wont get in

play off draw

Ukraine v Slovenia;
Sweden v Denmark;
Bosnia-Herzegovina v Republic of Ireland;
Norway v Hungary

the four winners are?

Slovenia and 3 Homes

Hungary qualified last night, their first major tournament appearance since 92

republic of ireland's big night tonight

sweden lead denmark

ukraine lead slovenia

in the other ties

Think Hungary is first appearance since Mexico 86.

they made it

(http://e0.365dm.com/15/11/16-9/20/jon-walters-jonathan-ireland-goal-celebration-republic-of_3377710.jpg?20151116212358)

horribly torn about tonight

want Kasper Schmeichel to get there, but don't want Zlatan to miss out on another major.

EURO2016 draw pots are confirmed on Wednesday; here's the 4 ways the seedings could end up http://uefa.to/1X4bTj1 

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUAa4-mXIAAQkRS.jpg)

Sounds like a win win to me that :)

I'll go with Kasper. I used to see him  knocking around quite a lot when he was a kid and before he signed pro for City. Always liked him and wanted him to do well.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUCy9tWWcAE7adn.png)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUC55GrWUAAR8U0.png)

the draw is tomorrow night

The Process

There will be four pots for the draw, with seedings based on the UEFA national team coefficient rankings.

England are one of the top seeds thanks to their record in qualifying and will not be drawn in the same group as any of the other nations in Pot One - Spain, Germany, Portugal and Belgium. Meanwhile, hosts France automatically take position one in Group A.

Those six countries will be drawn alongside one team each from Pots Two, Three and Four.

image: http://www.thefa.com/~/media/images/thefaportal/pillars/england/2015/general-images/euro-2016-top-seeds.ashx?la=en
France qualify as hosts, while Germany, Spain, England, Portugal and Belgium are top seeds in Euro 2016 draw

The hosts and the top seeds

The Pots and the Nations

Position One, Group A: France (hosts)
Pot One: Spain (holders), Germany, England, Portugal, Belgium
Pot Two: Italy, Russia, Switzerland, Austria, Croatia, Ukraine
Pot Three: Czech Republic, Sweden, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Hungary
Pot Four: Turkey, Republic of Ireland, Iceland, Wales, Albania, Northern Ireland

The Finals

The draw will reveal the six four-nation groups for next year's Finals, which will start on Friday 10 June at the Stade de France when France meet the team drawn into position two in Group A.

There will be 36 games played across the six groups between 10 and 22 June.

The top two in each of the groups will progress into the round of 16 knockout stage and will be joined by the four best third-placed sides.

The knockout competition continues with the eight last-16 winners moving into the quarter-finals, and so on.

The Final - the 51st game of the month-long competition - will take place back where it all began at the Stade de France in Saint-Denis on Sunday 10 July 2016.

Read more at http://www.thefa.com/news/england/2015/dec/euro-2016-draw-how-it-works#x1iR2ZZOuEHjkSbD.99

England get the Marseille group, not ideal

England play in Marseille, Lens and Saint Etienne...

England get Wales.

Oof.

run better france

N Ireland get Germany

Oof.

opening game France v Romania 10th June

slovakia decent draw

Slovakia for England

Hamsik etc

Not italy ty

England, Russia, Sovakia, Wales

will take that, compared to some draws


France have a lovely draw too

portugals is still nice if they get italy lol

D plus italy would be death

England v Russia, Marseille, June 11

 England v Wales, Lens, June 16

 England v Slovakia, St Etienne, June 20

ouch

belgium, italy, republic of ireland and zlatan

oh to be portugal

lump on ronaldo top scorer

Group A: France, Albania, Romania, Switzerland.
Group B: England, Wales, Slovakia, Russia.
Group C: Germany, Northern Ireland, Poland, Ukraine.
Group D: Spain, Turkey, Czech Republic, Croatia.
Group E: Belgium, Republic of Ireland, Sweden, Italy.
Group F: Portugal, Iceland, Hungary, Austria

the matches

fyi, eurostar are yet to put prices up for london-lille on the 15th-16th june for england-wales, if you mgiht be planning it

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWC8UsvXIAAMk-I.jpg)

Have tickets for Spain v Czech Rep, Austria v Hungary and Belgiuim v Ireland,. Happy with that, Austria Hungary is a bit meh but avoided the teams that I wanted too and got an Ireland game.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWC7GTAWcAEOgz5.png)

Muller, Ronaldo and Benzema looking the best shouts for top scorer based on the groups. Maybe a tickle on Kane as well depending on the price/his form leading up to June.

Benzema won't be in the squad unless his case is resolved favourably

Ah yeah of course, forgot he is a potential wrong 'un. Who leads the line for France in his absence? Giroud?

or Martial/Griezmann

5 weeks today

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Chwm6YoW0AER32z.jpg)

squad announcements starting

heres belgium

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiP5IJzVAAAkwll.jpg)

France's squad announced, few surprises:

(http://i.imgur.com/DIrl646.jpg)

There's no place for Costa, Torres or Mata in Spain's provisional squad for Euro 2016. http://bbc.in/1TdCM7O

No Bellerin or Monreal?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiqHlvYWYAAxwCR.jpg)

bellerin is 21, presumably doesn't get in yet

monreal is behind jordi alba

no santi caz either

lots of strength in depth

Presume Azpilicueta gets in because he can play both left and right back?

Looks a strong squad as always. Fullback a potential weakness if there is one (maybe!)

I haven't seen that much German football this year but Bellarabi one to watch according to those that do. Got double figures from midfield the past two seasons, is 26.

Who is going to start up front for Spain - Morata? Or will they go with a false 9 (Cesc?)

Don't think Coman will start but he might well play his way into the side during the course of the tournament. He's looked the real deal in the Champions League this year. Like Raheem Sterling of two years ago but with shooting ability too.

yes i should have added that.

that flexibility is key in a 23 manner

I think the answer is we can't be 100% sure yet and knowing Spain they'll probably switch it up depending on opponent. I've backed Morata for top scorer fwiw. Sid Lowe's predicted line-up from end of March had Morata up top.

I've come up with a game I'm running at work for the Euros, and I think it's quite a good idea. Thought I'd share it in case anyone else likes the look of it and want to run it amongst their workmates or friends.

I've called it "Four Play" and it works like this:

The 24 teams have been split into 4 seed groups, based on the bookies odds of them winning their groups. Those seed groups are:
1. France
2. Germany
3. Spain
4. England
5. Belgium
6. Portugal

1. Italy
2. Croatia
3. Russia
4. Austria
5. Switzerland
6. Poland

1. Ukraine
2. Sweden
3. Wales
4. Czech Rep
5. Romania
6. Iceland

1. Turkey
2. R. Ireland
3. Slovakia
4. Albania
5. Hungary
6. N.Ireland

Entrants are rolling a dice four times, selecting a team from each group with each roll.

Their teams score the following points:
Group match draw - 1
Group match win - 3
Last 16 match win - 5
Quarter final win - 10
Semi final win - 15
Final win - 20

Bonuses
Handicap group winner - 1/2/3/4 (if a top seed team wins the group, 1 point, 2nd seed team 2 points, etc)
Score 4 or more in a game - 5
Win a penalty shootout - 10

What I like about it is, people with zero football knowledge will be able to get involved and have the same chance as football fans, but there's a lot more interest than a simple sweep.

I've rolled terribly and have Belgium, Poland, Rimanua and N.Ireland :(

I had a little ew on Morata with the last of the 25s for topscorer!

Draw for the last 16 could look like this if it goes to form.

Second place teams
Spain v x
England v x
Portugal v Belg/Italy
-----
Germany v x
Italy/Belg v x
France v x
Second place teams

The two favourites look likely to be in the same half of the draw if it goes to form. Spain avoid them both and get to play second place teams in the quarters, must be nice!

England's draw could be better, could be worse I guess. If we come second in the group we get a second place team in the last 16 from Group F (weakest Group) - but would be in Germany/France side of the draw

---

On a side note, I wish they had kept it at 16 teams, can't really get excited about the group stages. Think there will be a lot of negative games with draws being more important as four of the third place sides go through. Hope I'm wrong!

this is some of my stuff, with the simulation material sourced



The groups drawn were as follows:

Group A: France, Albania, Romania, Switzerland.
Group B: England, Wales, Slovakia, Russia.
Group C: Germany, Northern Ireland, Poland, Ukraine.
Group D: Spain, Turkey, Czech Republic, Croatia.
Group E: Belgium, Republic of Ireland, Sweden, Italy.
Group F: Portugal, Iceland, Hungary, Austria.

Due to the competition format, simulations in the following report

http://www.scribd.com/doc/290626039/EURO-2016-The-Group-E-effect

have shown that teams from Group E have an approximately 28% lower chance of reaching the final than teams from group A.

With placings for the last sixteen already decided, this is because according to the report linked above

“1. The winners of group A, B, C and D get to face third-placed teams, when the winners of group E and F move on to face runner-ups (A clear disadvantage)

2. The runner-ups of group A, B, C and F get to face other runner-ups, when the runner-ups of group D and E move on to face winners (A clear disadvantage).

3. This would in theory mean that teams that qualify from Group E already have a lower probability of reaching the quarter-final just by getting drawn into group E. For group D and F this means that they will have a higher probability than the teams from group E, but a lower probability than the ones from group A, B or C”

Interesting link - thanks!

It is almost as if the hosts set it up to have the easiest route to the final!

Anyone put any bets on yet? I've mainly concentrated on the Outright and Top Goalscorer markets thus far although I've done Spain/France and Spain/Germany 'name the finalists' bets.


I've got:

Outright:
France
Austria
Croatia
Portugal

Top Goalscorer:

Fancied:
Griezmann
Giroud

Mid-priced:
Morata
Pelle
KDB
Hazard
Janko

Long shots:
Milik
Hanrik
Arnautovic

I may have gone overboard in the top goalscorer market! However I'm in profit should one of them scoop. Top Goalscorer market usually chopped though which is a concern!

Giroud, very prolific

this is really good

every squad and every player analysed

http://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2016/jun/01/euro-2016-the-complete-guide-to-every-squad-and-every-player-in-france

Just realised my post above is in the wrong thread, should've gone in the general Euro 2016 thread. Feel free to move it mods. Thanks.

Don't think this is the right thread but what the hell!

I like the shout on Sterling to start vs Russia, gonna look at that now. I had a nice score on Rashford being in the squad, so I am happy about that.

I've gone Spain each way - which was also recommended at BE today.

Top scorer - matched some of your selections
Giroud likely to be the starting striker for the tournament favourites, seems like a good price to me.
Morata, likely to be starting striker for tournament third favourites
Gomez - seems likely to be the starter for tournament second favourites
Griezmann - feel like he should be joint fave in this market with Mueller. Price has come in a little but still feel like it is good

Some doubt about selection of the first three of these guys which translates to the price, I've backed all three. Even if they don't start, they are likely to come on in matches, maybe for some of the 'garbage minutes' in group games against softer opposition when the match is won. They are likely to get six matches each. I think Gomez will lead the line, with Mueller behind.

I've got each way bets on the four teams which are most likely to finish second place in groups A and C, which will then meet in the second round in the top (likely softer section) of the draw.
Poland, Switzerland
With smaller bet on Ukraine and v small bet on Romania.

Various other small bets on top scorers for various countries, biggest one on Shaqiri for Switz

Not sure why Germany are so hotly tipped.

Defense looks weak, strikers look weak, midfield doesn't look great.

Missing Reus, Lahm retired, Scweinsteiger passed it.

Will probably oppose them in most games.

Really not so sure that Gomez will start for Germany Bergeroo , they play their last warm up game tomorrow so that may give more of a clue, he started in the loss to Slovakia but was heavily criticised
I think they will go with Gotze as a false 9

Agreed. Just read this about Lewandowski

The Bayern striker is extremely careful with his diet and looks out for every nutritional detail. Everything he eats, he eats backwards – so if having three courses he starts with having dessert first, then the main course before finishing with a starter.

I assume Lewandowski doesn't order the soufflé then.  Would be the hight of selfishness if you are waiting for soup of the day.

http://play.wincashlive.com/england-russia?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=cpm&utm_campaign=mnfdeppixellookalike-eng-rus

Have no idea what these guys are like. I'll be honest have never heard of them. 5 quid max. Winnings paid in 5 quid free bets. Doesn't seem to be any rollover requirements. If it loses get your fiver back.

How do we expect France to line up? Not particularly interested in their defence, more their midfield and forwards. Do they play both Griezmann and Giroud? Is Payet a regular now? How far forward and how much freedom does Pogba get?

Got my eye on a few potential bets....

Great article in The Guardian. Well worth a read. Sahin married his cousin, surprised he didn't fit in at Liverpool tbh.

Surprising to see how many ex City players will be present in France. Obvious ones like Boateng and Given, but plenty of more obscure ones like Fernades, Westwood and Chorluka that I'm sure had slipped off many people's radars.

Roll on wall to wall football from Friday.

excellent wp

Guardian Experts Network is a superb series with great insight into the players, tactics and what went on during qualifying, all written by brilliant local journos. They've been publishing three a day starting from Group A (https://www.theguardian.com/football/series/euro-2016-guardian-experts-network)

The expected line-up as per the French team guide is below: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/02/france-euro-2016-team-guide

                   Lloris

Sagna-Mangala-Koscielny--Evra
                 Kante
     Maltuidi           Pogba
    Marital-Giroud-Griezmann

watching 1996 eng v german semi with a mate on bt sport now and we just talking about how England can't possibly win the Euros this year because none of the current squad (in 2016 obv Rooney would have done in his prime but he isn't in his prime in 2016) would have got into the starting 11 of the 1996 team.   Anyone think anyone in the current England squad would have started in 1996 and ahead of who?

I'd probably put Ali in ahead of Anderton?

That was the only discussion we had.   The rest weren't even close in virtually every other position.

Pretty sure Payet starts , has been close to MOM in all his last few starts

Agree on Payet, he's been a key player lately.

Think Payet could potentially be the star of the Tournement

Maybe bias as a West Ham fan, but he really is a great player to watch

Rami will start ahead of Mangala too I think.

It's a brilliant team, defence will need help but Kante should be more than up for that.

So much competition in the squad

Lassana Diarra has started the last 3 friendlies as the DM

He's out of the squad with a knee injury, Schneiderlin has replaced him.

Ah cheers had not seen that

Sky Poker TV recorded a whole bunch of Euro 2016 Betting Previews this week, with tips on the same markets by different analysts.

WARNING - May contain Sky Bet spam.

Outright & Golden Boot

https://youtu.be/l9RKxBOIXJo

 

Home Nations & Groups

https://youtu.be/DSWzebZUtT4





Outright



https://youtu.be/VlCAI69yryU



 



Golden Boot



https://youtu.be/c-9tiFzUbaA



 



Opening Game



https://youtu.be/1CgCNXWE9n8



 



Group A



https://youtu.be/AP5lf45YKyQ



 



Group B



https://youtu.be/lZZF-Ab2CD4



 



Group D



https://youtu.be/PWlk0WFT3w8



 



England vs Russia



https://youtu.be/n53OMYFd_Vk




 England v Wales



https://youtu.be/Q3Yu06m13Nk



 



Rep Ireland v Sweden



https://youtu.be/Y3m_wSnK4PU



 



Top Tip



https://youtu.be/zwAt2a2bgfQ




Outright

https://youtu.be/mRMibxaUs8s

 

Golden Boot

https://youtu.be/wdcA6C54K3k

 

Opening Game

https://youtu.be/GNbU34pabTM

 

England v Russia

https://youtu.be/fcN-nf3Ef6U

 

England v Wales

https://youtu.be/TmgvvesK-CU

 

Wales v Slovakia

https://youtu.be/TmgvvesK-CUv

 

Rep Ireland v Sweden

https://youtu.be/MzMDuyAneTA

 

Northern Ireland v Poland

https://youtu.be/2w4ir4ynKX0

 

Group C

https://youtu.be/jQpBBjFcQvg

 

Group E

https://youtu.be/yiObeAMcVM4

 

Group F

https://youtu.be/eTNE1vmB12k

 

Top Tip

https://youtu.be/OQSU6MIxJCA

 

Walker and Rose would start full backs. Hart would start on goal. Dier would start defensive midfield

Behave. Seaman would start ahead of Hart. Pearce miles ahead of rose. Walker ahead of Gary Neville? Not a hope .Only really the anderton and mcmanaman spots in the 96 team would be vulnerable to Amy in this squad

You really think that Seaman as he was would play as a professional goalkeeper? And that Pearce would play left back in the premiership? If you're talking relative then sure, but if we're talking actual then most players simply weren't good enough athletes to play top tier now

Assuming players back then would have modern sports science, nutrition and training so that different eras are on the same footing then yes. Seaman and Pearce and by a long way.

Can't see how Dier starts ahead of Ince either

Pearce would destroy the modern day EPL fitness wise.  He was one of the strongest fittest player of that era.   I witnessed him getting sent off at Filbert St (tighty might have been there) for Forest when he nearly broke Paul Reid's legs twice in the first 30 minutes of a league game in the late 80s. Both tackles would be auto 3 match bans and straight red's in the modern era. Of all those players most suited to cope with the phsyical demands of the EPL Pearce would adapt the easiest by a mile.

Absolutely this.

And Seaman over Hart every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Obviously apart from when he was getting lobbed by Nayiiiim....

Joe Hart is one of England's most over rated keepers ever.  He has had an extension to his soft rein with Butland's injury.  The clock is ticking Joe enjoy it while it lasts.

Pleno would bench Maradona for Milner given the chance if he's sticking Dier ahead of Ince .

I was talking about the exact once of 96 trying to get a game in today's team with physical limitations etc

Physical limitations - Paul Ince? Really? He'd eat Dier for breakfast then go for a five mile run. 10x the player Dier is.

Don't even think Anderton/mcmanaman would be under threat, our wide options are shit. Who knows how good, Kane, dier, fullbacks, alli are, but to choose them over established England greats is ridiculous. Our big hopes are just that, the ppl you are comparing them to, have proven their level. Hart shouldn't start instead of Forster who is potentially an England great and hart for me is limited to being very good, good enough for any club but never destined to bother the overall argument England great or best keeper in the world today.

Given that we played three at the back that day then Pearce could easily lose out to Smalling, and both McManaman and Anderton would be bettered by most of today's crop of wide players who have a far greater awareness of the need to work without the ball.
I'd say that any of the current squad's 'full backs' would be sufficiently better defensively to outweigh the reduction in threat levels.

Hard to make a case for replacing any of the others though.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ckb1n19XEAEbwjR.jpg)

That Lewandowski bloke and Pogba must be rubbish because they were transferred for zero :)

Anyone know more about Italy's team, odds would suggest de Rossi may not start but I would assume he does

They have a lot of injury issues in midfield, so it's not clear who will be fit

First time I've 100% agreed with you. Be really isn't a top class goalkeeper, just good. I'm sure if City thought they could get better they would. Let's in the odd stinker and quite a few soft ones. 

Would have had Butland over him anytime.

Lol Hart is comfortably England's best keeper, and has been for a number of years. If Butland gets anywhere near Joe's level he'll have done very well for himself.

Is that your unbiased opinion based on a careful study of the relative merits of the candidates?

It's my opinion based on having watched him week in week out for numerous years, seen him pick up the golden glove for 4 of the past 6 seasons, seen him make some stunning saves and keep City in various games across all competitions. Look at some of his performances in Europe if you're in any doubt about his ability. Butland is a decent keeper and could go far in the game but he really isn't at Joe's level yet.

Who would you have starting vs Russia, Hart or Butland?

Jack will never start for England playing for Stoke.  Woy is a big 6 only type hence all the lolapool's in the squad.   If Jack leaves Stoke for a bigger club he will be England's number 1 immediately i would imagine.

Pretty hard for anyone neutral to say Hart was better than Jack last season in the EPL prior to his injury surely?  Butland was sensational for virtually the whole season.   Stoke's form dropped right off after his injury unsurprisingly.

Hart obviously. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35918252

I'm indifferent as to the choice between Hart and Forster though.

Hart is pretty average. No surprise that Pep is looking to replace him according to the media reports. Can judge a player alright.

Just seen your post on the transfer thread about short-term results, variance and sample size.  What are your thoughts on this (without using outfielders as examples because the context is different) bearing in mind Butland has an all-time sample size of 37 Premier League starts?  

Which "lolapools" in the squad would you remove and who would you replace them with?

Comparing sample sizes for these two things is pointless.   Just because Butland (or Harry Kane last year) only had 37 EPL appearances doesn't make any difference.   It is pretty obvious from a small sample of games from top level performers at this level that they are the real deal and highly likely to stay that way and are hugely progressive still because of their age.  OBviously they can become gambling addicts, fail a drugs test or go off the rails with a WAG at their side but this can happen to anyone.  A sample size of 40 games at EPL level at his age is usually a solid guide to future performance especially when you are playing in a bang average side like Stoke were last season.   He was the main reason Stoke were not in a relegation battle tbh.  God knows how bad Stoke's -14 GD would have been without him last year yet they still run like god and finished 9th.

You don't need a sample size of 200 games to realise guys like Butland (who is like an unexposed 2 year old in horse racing terms and still open to any amount of improvement) is only going one way performance wise all other things being equal.  He was the stand out English goalkeeper in the EPL last season playing most of his season in front of a banged up defense adjusting to life without Huth and an injured Shawcross for most of the season.

Most of the LFC players in the England squad are 'jobbers' and it is highly probably that no LFC player starts any game at the Euro's anyway (Milner included but he is a Woy fav and will probably start - bet 365 make him a flip to start the first game) but get the 'safe' nod on the bench because of their big club status (from the 1980's).  So their inclusion is mainly to pad out the squad and they will play very few minutes combined but it says more about the mindset of Woy and how demotivating it must be for players who don't wear the big clubs badges on their shirts in order to get a run in the England team.  The EPL has never been more competitive and 'flat' in terms of money across the whole league yet the England set up is like a dinosaur concept of still thinking the big clubs are a million miles ahead of the rest of the league.

I wouldn't have taken Sturridge as a reserve forward.   Defoe would have gone for me instead as he is bang in form. Henderson is so marginal and pointless to the squad he might as well stay at home anyway and we just go with 22 players.  Woy, true to form, sticks to the 'big clubs' he spends his whole life watching.

Yes it was in The Sun and Mail so it must be true.

Since his wobble a couple of years ago when Pellers dropped him, he's been pretty much rock solid. Like every keeper, he does have the odd moment, but his crucial and often world class saves more than offset this.

Look at his performances in the Champions League. In the biggest games, against the best players, he is more than up to the task. England need big game players and that is exactly what Hart is. We are very lucky to have a keeper of that calibre at City.

Loads of story's floating round this afternoon that Spain have sent 4+ players home, due to a historic sexual assault case.
De Gea and Isco could/maybe facing charges and are thought to be 2 of those sent home - can find no validation of the story yet, but likely to have implications on price/progression if true.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3635405/David-Gea-sent-home-Euro-2016-caught-prostitution-scandal.html

After robbing donuts a few years ago this was inevitable.

Of the teams in the top 10 of them premier league table, he'd only get into West Ham and Liverpool as first choice keeper imo.

Bit harsh.

On the other thread Pleno is claiming that all big team bench warmers would walk into the Leicester team.  Goodness knows what he is going to make of the claim that Schmeichel is better than Hart.  He'd put Willy Caballero in Kaspar's place!  :)

Payet and Kante starting for France tonight

I'd say De Gea is the best keeper in the league when he's not arranging for U21 players to roast prostitutes.

It's pretty close between Hart, Lloris and Courtois in the next bracket. Those 4 are ahead of a good chasing pack that includes Cech, Forster, Schmeichel, Butland etc, IMO ofc.

Very surprised at the question marks that people seem to have over Joe. We watch him every week and see just how good he is so maybe that's it, I really don't know.

Humble pie being prepared in case he lets a Taibi in this month ;)

So you would have Butland over Hart then as Stoke finished 9th?

No surprise to you but I'm with you all the way on this.  KUTGW :)   
I hope to post some interesting stuff after the match  on Hart and Butland in response to Arb's post from this morning

My buy of Payet tournament goal minutes at 42 could be epic if he holds down a starting place in a free scoring team.

Just stuck a quick e/w bet on him at 66/1 top scorer. I hope France are nice and theatrical just outside the box :)

Lol...     I don't get it I really don't.  Hart has been excellent in recent times and, as you say, his record on the big stage of Champions League nights  etc has been superb.

Just 4 more caps and he moves into 4th place in the all-time appearance list for English goalkeepers behind Shilton, Banks and Seaman and he is still so young relatively for a goalkeeper.

 

I don't think Leics would swap Schmeichel for Hart. Organises his defence better, better on corners and distributes better. Cech is a better keeper, Lloris would be picked ahead of Hart every time, De Gea best keeper in the prem. Cortois better and younger. Burland younger, equally good at shot stopping, possibly not quite as confident but higher upside.

Hart probably more consistent that Forster, I might concede that. Better than Mignolet and Adrian.

How gracious.

It's amusing that a keeper who has won 4 of the last 6 golden glove awards, often playing in front of a much maligned defence, is way behind the ability of many other keepers in the league.

Golden Glove just the least goals conceded in a season?  What are the actual rules?   

Least dandruff?

Wow didn't realize how good Pogba was. Greizman similarly to the champions league final very underwhelming though.

Kante best player on the pitch at the moment

Kante playing too well for lcfc. What a player he is. Reads the game, tackles. Intercepts, range of passing, runs all day

Yeah most clean sheets. As said, often playing behind a much maligned defence and midfield that offered little protection. I think it's his performances in Europe that really stick out, if you'd seen them you'd remember them. He was a one man machine vs Messi the other year.

Think the set piece deliveries of Payet have been a bit poor apart from the one to Giroud right at the end.  France defence looks panic stations as well apart from Sagna.  More negatives than positives at half time for them.

If they put someone on to run in behind pogba will rip these to bits. Giroud looks out of place.

2 - Olivier Giroud has completed just 2 passes in the 1st half & 1 of those was kick-off.

We,West ham ,were in for Kante at the same time as when you signed him, really is a great player have said many times how every team in the world bar possibly Barcelona could do with him in their midfield

So much energy and drive absolute joy to watch, allowing Payet ,Pogba etc to do what they do

If it's any consolation to you, we'd take him at Brentford.

Golden glove this year Cech? When was the last time an Arsenal keeper won it before him? I don't think it really has much relevance to be fair.

In the NHL there is an award for the goalie who's team let in the least but no one pays any attention, what matters is the award for the best keeper as voted for by his peers. Hart's not been in since 2012 indicating his stalled in his development and hasn't kicked on. Cortois, Lloris, Butland all
joined the league since.

Remember Frazer Forster for Celtic against Barca? Stand out goalkeeping display in Europe this decade.

We're obviously at different ends of the spectrum cos I think Hart is significantly better than he was 4 seasons ago. He's cut out most of the silly mistakes, is much more mature between the sticks, he's always been confident but I think the arrogance that was creeping into his game a couple of years ago was soon removed when MP dropped him.

I don't think he's the best keeper in the league although he's up there, but I think he's clearly England's best keeper. Genuinely amazed that people seem to think Butland or Forster are a better option than Joe.

That Romanian keeper is better than Hart ;)

Got Giroud top scorer, few more please.

He done it more than once.  A better GK than Hart imo. 

That was unreal bad. Pretty ironic during all this discussion who romanias bench keeper is lol

Hart would have stopped that

Agreed ;)

Hart will be a very short price to win this award just because he plays for the clear market leader in the league.  Any keeper outside of the top 6 in the ante post betting literally is a million to win this award just because of what price their team goes off every week.   If Hart played for Stoke he literally couldn't win this award.  It is meaningless.

Tighty might be able to confirm but from what I understand Idrissa Gueye - who signed for Villa - was LCFC's first choice target. He chose Villa so LCFC bought Kante. He didn't start the first game of the season in CM it took an injury for Ranieri to form the Kante/Drinkwater partnership.

Jordan Veretout

Best scouting in the league though!  Or just variance?

Jordan veretout, turned us down for villa. After the 5:2 arsenal defeat ranieri introduced Simpson and kantecto tighten us up and we never looked back

Pick. That. Out.

And what a goal that was dmitri. Wow

Payet looked quite upset, but I figured it out when i seen who his replacement was

If Troy Deeney is worth £20 mil

What is Payet worth? I would not accept below £2.8 billion 😃

Please stay Dimi

Payet and kante at psg come August.

Congrats on the goal minutes Dung.  You run good.  What an awesome free roll to have for the event now with 40 units profit banked on day 1!

Yeah - that was sweet and should guarantee him a starting berth for the tournament now!  Much for France to ponder defensively though in my opinion.  That game wouldn't have filled me with confidence.

Need Mangala...... ;)

fyp

What a substitution. Balls to take Pogba off and put Payet in the hole. Incredible.

I think they should be worried as favs.  Their defending of corners looked dreadful, and Evra looked like a weak link throughout (defensively).  Skinned a couple of times first half and then absurd challenge for penalty.  Kante and Pogba are awesome though.

As a side show minor irritation Greizmann did that slow snivelling sulky walk off when he got subbed when the team needed all the minutes it could get.  Pogba was a man and ran off!

Yeah I think better teams could punish France in the final 3rd. They look so good going forward and have bags of talent in that direction, but certainly defensively they could be found wanting.

Kante, Pogba and Payet all looked class. Gonna be an interesting tournament.

I like you - your whoppers are getting bigger and bigger :)  The "correllation" between inclusion or not in the PFA Team of the Year as a measure of stalled development is pretty good.  Well done.

 It says a lot for the award that matters that  Aguero  has not made 1 of the 2 striker positions in the PFA team of the year in any of his 5 years in the PL.  Does that mean he is really average as well?  At least Hart can take some consolation that he has made it as best keeper twice which is the same number as Cech. However Cech has played more PL seasons than Hart therefore Hart's achievement is better than Cech but Hart is average and Cech is good. I'm confused now.

Don't think there is a single whooper there, just honest opinion.

Does appear to be a City bias being shown by the blue mooners though. Interesting that not one non-city fan has come out and said that they feel Hart is signif ahead as English number one and most have said quite the opposite.

Pretty sure that if City had anyone else between the sticks you'd also be raving about them and be equally as successful. If they had De Gea in nets they'd probably be signif more successful. Hart's is serviceable as a good prem goalie but I don't think he's 'worth as many points' (to coin a phrase) as the other keepers prev mentioned. Certainly not world class.

Sample size; there are 2 City fans sticking up for Hart, a Stoke fan wanting Butland as No.1 and a couple of others questioning Joe. Not sure what opinion you can really form from that.

I think DDG is the best keeper in the league but he's worth way more to them than he would be for us. Interested in how we'd be ''significantly more successful'' with DDG between the sticks instead of Hart. Maybe we'd have won the quadruple last season with De Gea?

It's pretty obv we're gonna stick up for a keeper we watch week in week out when you probably only see him on the MOTD highlight reel. I wish he would fucking catch the ball sometimes though, more than happy to concede that ;)

This guy was pretty good at catching the ball, didn't always need two hands either

Second clip ...

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9fp4aD3X-E

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completely dispassionate view

Gary Lineker ‏@GaryLineker

Said it many times this season but Kanté is as good a holding player as I've ever seen. It's like having 2 men in one position.

I hadn't seen much of Kante in the PL.  But by god he was impressive last night.  Linekar spot on, he was everywhere.  How much ground doe he cover in an average game.  I could actually see him in a Barcelona team giving them that extra bit of steel that sometimes it seems they miss.  It's great having the ball 80% of the time but when you don't have it and your not the best defence it helps having someone who can break just about everything up. 

I also thought Payet was good, a bit wasteful in the first half but then I don't think France started that well.  The occassion seemed to get to a few of them.  Even Deschamps looked a bit nervy at times and he's one of the coolest heads around. 

Also agree with some comments about the French back line, it looks fragile.  My bets last night were mainly centred around the fact I thought the French were overrated and Romania underrated. 

Not to aftertime but I done quite well on the game last night with BTTS/Overs and 2 - 1 France I also backed 1 - 1 and 2 - 1 Romania.  I think that would have been the nut best result in terms of the night and overall for me as I have the Swiss to win that group. 

Albania from what I know and have seen will be pretty defensive, they won't have much going forward so today I'll be concentrating on unders, Swiss to win to nil and a bet I quite like Swiss to score first.

Love wales, hopefully england give us a sweat as this is the best tournament in terms of interest for a very long time. Skrtel has acted like a total moron all match, he should have gone for an absolute pointless elbow early and was totally rash a few times.

Roy has decided to play as many people in their preferred position as possible.

Entirely welcome as a 4-3-3 with Rooney and Alli deeper, but one wonders why this hasn't been tried before.

Sad to see it all kicking off in Marsaille, loads of videos floating around Twitter of the usual cowardice displayed from the hooligan element  :(

Bbc - " russian hooligans fighting with English fans".   No editorial direction then......

If anyone is wondering why former French tennis player Marion Bartoli is doing interviews for ITV's football coverage and how that is bonkers and weird, fear not...

On German TV, they have Phil Neville. He can't speak German, so he sits and watches the others discuss things and then, when it's his turn to answer a question, he waits for the translation to come through his earpiece and answers in English...which is them dubbed over for the audience.

I'm told he just said Alli is "like Ballack"

England's fighting team get weaker and weaker every year with all the banning orders in place.   Ruskies def have an competitive advantage over us.  Can't imagine they bother with banning orders for their finest 'fans'.

Hard to see how Spurs dont start winning things soon if their playerkeep improving like they are.  Ali is running this game imo.  Rooney thinking he is Scholes thought doesn't wash.  Hoddle should be put out to pasture.  Lallana is wasteful I'd have Vardy or Rashford on for him.  Why is Kane taking corners does he think he's Ronaldo?

Are you serious? Rooney and Lallana best two players on pitch by country mile.

Agree completely with this. I think Rooney has been excellent.

Good performance so far.  Agree about Kane on corners though.  Just doesn't make sense - he isn't great at them and he's great in the box so why put him on them?

Yep. Full backs have been the standouts for me, but they're being given far too much room.

I'd have Rooney as MOTM in-running right now. He's drifting around and finding 10 yards of space almost like Pirlo. Not put a foot wrong.

www.twitter.com/SportsJOEdotie/status/741719607787065345

This is getting silly now..!

Still can't hear the song without thinking of this:

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZvwAqb-3V8

aye if you like wasting the ball/chances. 

Almost like Pirlo?  What, did you ever see Pirlo play.  Rooney ain't even close. 

::)

What was it Clive was saying #JusticeForTheEngland11 the next referendum Scotland has should be a night after an England game where Sir Clive commentates it has to be worth a 15% swing. 

The history of the England football team 1967 - 2016 in a 91st minute nutshell.

Hart floating around in no man's land!   ;)

Showed good heart and bad hart

Takes considerable courage, but bringing Vardy on for Sterling, rather than Milner, offered the chance to break on the counter. Instead, by holding for the 1-0, we tried to rely on our weakest part: the defence. Vardy's benefit far outweighs the gap left behind.

Easy call to see and make from the armchair. Michael Cheika did that move this morning in the rugby and lost. Playing it safe is often the -EV play but sport only cares about short term variance.

It's a great start for England. Far better than our usual first game draws. Can't criticise the selections or the effort today.

Roll on Thursday.

 

Pretty sound performance, better than expected. thought Sterling was very wasteful. Provides a great outlet at times but delivers little.. frustrating player to watch

Should have and could have done better with it.  

Good performance.  But Sterling geez.  Apart from his pace he's so average.  Passing, shooting, football intelligence.  Surely there had never been a worse £20 million+ player (and I know he went for a lot more!)

Funny everybody goes after Sterling. He didn't have a great game but he offered something different to everybody else and we actually looked most dangerous when he was committing players. Harry Kane was woeful and not a single word said about him.

Thought we looked really good, taking Rooney off who was playing great was an awful substitution though.

Didn't think he had that bad a game either.  Broke them open enough times, though obv some touches were terrible. 

We've had worse starts to a tournament and just ran a bit bad.

Sterling is an outlet because of his pace.  You could put Anya there if Scotland hadn't snaffled him - got the same shooting and decision making skills.  Kane didn't do much I agree and I also think it was a good performance overall.

Wilshere looked great when he came on and we almost scored within minutes of the change, thanks to his passing and movement. He's ideal as an impact player. Lallana and Rooney looked like they were tired. Of the two, saving Rooney's legs makes more sense. Henderson and Wilshere are natural replacements as they get match fitter.

Kane was fine. They marked him well but his movement - in fairness the movement of all the front 3 - was what created the space for the full backs and midfielders to run into.

Sterling will be out when Sturridge is fit, I expect.

Sterling's final ball is the problem. Gets into position and then zilch. Frustrating. Didn't like the defensive substitutions. Wanted vardy on at 1-0 to hit them on the counter. Russia were very ponderous and burgled a point.

Yep, Rooney coming off seemed like overthinking..don't think it changed anything but still seemed kinda pointless

Wouldn't have sterling anywhere near the team so wasteful. Been awful for more than 12 months.

Vardy in for sterling please for Wales and we should win by a couple. Have to probably win both games now to top the group.

Another one here in the 'Sterling played fine' camp. I'm the first to lambast his shooting though, generally. His shots have the power of a Travelodge hairdryer. Still, I can easily think of half a dozen worse EPL players who cost over £20m.

Did anyone spot the Kane Salmon dive? Or hear that loud explosion near the end?

this exactly sums up what I thought. Kane was terrible but people are on sterling when if he had of had vardy there with the legs to keep up they would have wiped the floor with russia. Kane taking corners is lol, and he has no clue what to do when hes not going to just shoot.

hodgson reverted to type and we got punished

"His shots have the power of a Travelodge hairdryer"

:)

Oh dear -  trouble in the stadium - sounds like Russians kicking off.

They all backed Hart for the golden gloves!  Fuming. 

Sterling very Walcott like tonight.

His play reminds me more of Franz Carr for those that can remember.  £50
Million or whatever it was? :). Liverpool did so well!

Carr better.  Same delivery but quicker over 40 metres.

Why can hart not distribute the ball. Puts his defenders under needless pressure, kicks it out to much and does not seem to kick it to his men up the field.

Maybe I am blessed watching DDG every week who is immense at distribution but I think it's such a key area, espically  when you have Kane upfield who is great with his head.

Aside from that Sterling was awful.

Full backs were great I thought, dier and Rooney worked well and I was very impressed with Lallana he never stopped running, lots of heart and involved in lots of good plays.

For sure we should have shoved vardy on for sterling. Earlier subs also, I remember reading that around the 60th minute was optimal for the first sub.

Vardy would have caused havoc at that time in the game.

Don't take Rooney off unless he is injured.

Looks bad media saying distinct lack of police,steward support. Women and children getting trampled.

Vardys wife was saying on twitter it was mayhem. After the match Joe Hart was trying to find his family in the crowd to tell the to keep safe.

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(http://)

Would he have been better asking Forster or Butland to do it? ;)

proceedings opened against Russia

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Enjoyed the 1st half enormously last night and we should have had the game won by half-time.

Lots of criticism on here (and bile in many other places) about Sterling. I actually thought he was very good in the 1st half but very disappointing from some promising positions in the 2nd half. Definitely a tale of 2 halves for him and I understand the frustration but to mark his overall performance as “awful” is ridiculous.

Thought Hodgson should have pulled him at about 60 mins. In fact very difficult to understand why Hodgson didn’t change it in the 2nd half particularly when you consider the options on the bench. Kane had a poor match and no one has mentioned Lallana who had good moments in the 1st half but was totally anonymous in the 2nd.

I’ve watched a recording of the game again this morning. More to the point it wasn’t really “watching” but more of a crude analysis breaking down the game into segments and looking at specific things. It is something I do relatively regularly for big City games when I’ve seen the game live. One specific “thing” I looked at it this morning was Sterling and to test if my perception that he had a very good 1st first half was over influenced by my City bias. It wasn’t. He was pretty much faultless for the 1st 30 minutes and involved in so much that was good about England’s domination of the early stages.

If anyone has kept a recording, is as sad as me and has the time or inclination, have a look at:

2.36
8.27
11.47
16.39
20.19
23.30  (running through on goal and great defending – would Vardy have done better there?)
30.29  (his 1st mistake when he scuffed an easy ball that would have released Kane)
35.44
39.55


I can also post the times from the 2nd half which didn’t end too well :)

I didn't think Sterling had a good game overall, but I agree my perception was clouded by the second half and I likely didn't given him credit for the 1st half when as you say he was part of a strong England performance.  I think he suffers criticism due to his price tag that City paid for him.  Whenever I see him play I always immediately think of him as "the £50 million pound player" and expect a strong performance which is unfair as the price City paid isn't his fault.

Sterling was like various England players, good in the first half but faded in the 2nd. His end product is frustrating, no getting away from that. His best work is sometimes off the ball, dragging people out of position and out of their comfort zones, and this ultimately frees up space for others to exploit.

It does look sometimes that the price tag weighs on his shoulders, which as pointed out is silly as it was nothing to do with him.

Why the fuck does Kane take corners? Does anyone actually know the reasoning or logic behind it?

Sterling just looks massively short of confidence as he has all season

The Kane thing just baffles me.......it's not as if his delivery is particularly good,he did say he is just following orders
How bad can the likes of Lallana or Wayne( the new Pirlo 😂)Rooney be at taking them?

Woy knows.

Did you log the times when Hart kicked for touch? His distribution of the ball is poor considering he is England's No1.

My fav hart moment was when he threw the ball off his defenders head when going upfield.

The whole team need to stop passing for the sake of it as it was so obvious where they were going to go. Loads of times people were left space and tried to thread the needle instead of committing defenders. I think we need goals from the two wide men and that would mean it's better vardy plays even if it's a bit unbalanced. Townsend would have had a field day in the llamas position, baffling we try to play like this with lack of wide players we took.

Modric, is so special like.

No I didn't log his long ball distribution because it is something that can be quickly looked up on a "match stat" site.  All his short passes were ok and he misplaced 11 long balls. On the face of it that sounds lots doesn't it? It is, however, pretty standard for Hart because he averaged 10 inaccurate long balls per game in the PL last season.

I would have thought there must be room for improvement there and you certainly won't catch me, or for that matter probably any City fan,  shouting from the rooftops suggesting Hart has great distribution.

As you are a United fan, how do you feel about De Gea's distribution?
Are you in the same camp as BorntoBubble who said last night  "maybe I'm blessed watching DDG every week who is immense at distribution"?
Are you aware, as great a goalkeeper as DDG is, that he averaged nearly 11 inaccurate long balls per game in the PL last season? Coincidentally the same number as Hart last night....

Lies, damned lies, and statistics. :)

I'm not surprised at the figures, although they are a very base way of measuring the efficacy of a keeper's distribution. I cba to check but I wouldn't be surprised if Schmeichel's numbers were good as he had the option of lumping it upfield and having Jamie Vardy chasing it.
DDG probably had the ball passed to him a lot more than Hart last season bearing in mind United's position in the sideways and backwards pass league, his 11 per game might only have been a small percentage. Whereas Hart was playing for the ever expansive Manchester City and maybe only had to distribute the ball 12 times a game :)

My issue last night was that Hart didn't seem capable of keeping it on the pitch.

Sick of these wankers that want to fuck up things for everyone else by fighting.

The U.K. Govt should just offer up a bunch of SAS troops to hit them hard at the first hint of trouble and lob them in a back of a van and back home on the first cargo plane.

I'm sure the Russians would be equally effective also given the nod....

Why do the press never ask RH about Kane taking corners?

Why has Hart not been outed for his terrible 'no mans land position' for the goal last night?  Everyone keeps saying 'there was nothing he could do about it blah blah blah'.  Correct given how bad a position he took up and how he was so desperate to moan for offside after he realised  he was totally out of position for this so called 'non stoppable' header.  Didn't look too unstoppable to me if he was positioned correctly.

Game set and match Archer.

I don't think his position was terrible. To save it, he would've had to have been on his line, and that would have been terrible positioning in itself.

I'm sure Butland would have kept it out, and then saved the 2 follow up attempts.

Nothing worse than being in no man's land.   Way better on the line or committing in full than just standing in a spot where nothing could be done.  Where is the benefit of being in the position he was in?   He had nothing to do all night apart from this and got it wrong as usual.  Nothing to do with Jack or any other keeper.  The bottom line is he talks a lot of bollocks in press conferences after the match and singing the national anthum dreaming he is the modern day Stuart Pearce when he is just a jobbing keeper who has had the easiest 6 year reign as a number 1 keeper with zero competition in the history of the game.  Pretty sure Pep sees it the same.   I would be amazed if he is still your keeper at the end of next season.

Just spent some time on a stats site, I won't be arguing football statistics with Archer again.
Clearly Joe Hart is a Demi-God and England are fortunate indeed to have him.

#Funny when keepers are getting evaluated on how good their distribution is without considered how many times they play a long ball up field!  Just take the absolute numbers don't worry about how many times they are actually forced to do this.  What about worrying about the real reason the keeper is there?  To stop goals going in.  Surely their distribution of the ball is way down the list of how you judge a keeper.  Like asking how many times does your centre forward make a backward pass in judging how good he is at his job?

'Sweeper Keepers' are all the rage these days, so while I disagree about most of what you said about Hart and the goal conceded, I agree that he could be out of Pep's plans for next year. Not because he is a poor keeper but more to do with poor feet skills.

Already a few keepers being linked with City and Everton linked with Hart

:)  TBF,  De Gea's long ball accuracy was about 40% last season and Hart's about 35%. Schmeichel's was about 31% albeit there must have been a far better ultimate end result on his numbers.

I suppose the point is that goalkeeper long-ball accuracy has not been mastereed and they are all shit. Different story for the easy short-ball stuff but De Gea had the worst % success rate in the league which surprised me somewhat.

Jobbing keeper? Classic line - genuinely made me laugh. WP.

Absolute numbers worked best to make the point to these pesky United fans who were having a pop at Hart's distribution. I can bore you to death with the rest if you want.

As Swinebag says, sweeper keepers are the rage. Pep loves them because, simplistically, he can get an extra man in midfield and theoretically dominate midfield to attack more and restrict the opponent to fewer opportunities. A downgrade on Hart's stop shotting ability to someone more comfortable with the ball at his feet  might well be a priority for Pep and I wouldn't be surprised to see the departure of Hart if he doesn't adapt after Pep's arrival. 

That's why a team who finished in the bottom half of the EPL last season have real ambitions to sign him.  That is his level.  Most keepers in the EPL could have played in front of your defence/midfield in the last few years and it wouldn't have made a great deal of difference to your results.

His level? Well, it would be interesting to see him play for a mid-table team again with a mid-table defence  like he did when he was on loan to Birmingham as a 22 year old in 2009/2010 in their 1st year back in the PL. He was able to showcase his talents back then and he helped them finish 9th in the league and was their  POTY.
 
There is a quirky coincidence with Butland there because he was also 22 I think at the start of 2015/2016, Stoke finshed 9th and Butland was POTY.

For good measure, Hart also was the PFA goalkeeper of the year in 2009/2010. And up the foodchain he went to his correct level.......

My Unitedness wasn't what prompted my comment, it was a text from my City supporting mate which was sent unprompted and said "Hart's distribution has been shocking all season"

Can we move onto the next game now? Same starting eleven?
Wales likely to defend deep might favour Kane, or dare I suggest Rashford? Vardy still a great sub as the game changes, especially f we get in front.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkwUX0hXAAAiqXd.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkxDntcWYAABCVx.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ckxm7jGW0AEsUpq.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ckxo4wOXAAA42zv.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkzqwjVWsAAwbpa.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ckwc6CBWsAAumPw.jpg)

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this is an excellent read

http://www.espnfc.com/european-championship/74/blog/post/2891011/euro-2016-fan-clashes-at-england-vs-russia-match-troublinng-sign


there are some genuinely worrying quotes coming out of Russia today

Vladislav Zhukov (Russian MP) - "If England fans don't want to get beaten up they shouldn't go to football matches. They are babies."

"Black fans and gays cannot be guaranteed safety at the 2018 Russia World Cup but that is their problem not ours".

Igor Lebedev, Russian FA executive: "90% of the fans go to football to fight, and that is normal. Our guys stood for our country"

Wow! Those quotes and incredibly damning. If I was in charge I would give serious consideration to taking the World Cup off them.

But Russian MP Igor Lebedev criticised French police and called on Russian football fans to

"keep up the good work"

"I see nothing wrong with football fans fighting. On the contrary, well done to our boys! Keep up the good work!" he tweeted.

Russia is gonna be absolute carnage in 2 years. Couldn't pay me enough to go there for the WC. I'll stick to watching jobbing keepers on the box.

Fancy an even money bet Hart starts the first game of 2018 WC for England?  You have the best of it by a mile but i will accommodate you for small stakes for a bit of interest.

I actually had a bet with myself that you'd offer some Hart related gamble before midnight ;)

I'm flattered, honestly I am, but your small stakes is probably the equivalent of my weekly wage! I'm happy to debate whatever aspect of the Euros whilst keeping the elastic bands on my wallet.

How many previous days have you had the same mythical bet though and lost because i only mentioned it today!   ;)

How would other people (outside of the debate) price Hart to start the first game of the 2018 WC?  If England don't qualify the bet loses.  Evens is too big right?

I'll level with you Arbboy, I've had that mythical bet with myself every day. I actually feel like I've made it on Blonde now :)

Yeah I'd say evens is pretty big. It's 2 years down the line so not exactly easy to price 'correctly' and there are many variables that could happen, but at 29 he is in his prime so you'd have to assume heavy odds on.

Think it relies on a few factors:

1) Pep keeping him as number 1 at Man City (having home grown senior keeper must be a plus though and let's face it he's adequate for a top 4 premier team?  Pep got bigger issues to address).
2) Whether Roy stays in charge of England (as reckon that would make it a lock).
3) England qualifying plus potential injuries

All in all, I'd probably think evens is a good bet for him to start WC2018?

I would say Evens is a little big but not far away
He will be 31 so age not an issue
Manager could change and not fancy him, if he left City for say Everton would it effect his place much?
Not anyone outstanding coming through
Still think he is a good keeper myself ,does things nice and simple pretty solid

Bloody Hell.

Is this genuine?

If so, the ruling bodies need to take the World Cup elsewhere.

And then Qatar in 2022.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36516006

Rooney's message to the fans today was heartfelt, genuine and natural. Well done Wayne.

What on earth has the bog brush done to his hair?!

Italy team is so old I'm just waiting for them to limp min re-raise AA.

Belgium are so restricted by their nomark manager. 

12.50% win rate at Schalke
22.73% win rate at Sint Truiden (sacked)
That's it.

This man is entrusted with the Belgian golden generation.   They need to sack this clown so they at least have a chance to make an impact at Russia 2018 or it will be the usual mediocrity interspersed with some individual class.  He takes 10-15% off their potential imo.

Reckon you could pop a forumite who spoke French in charge and it would be equal EV in terms of results.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck1rFUQWEAI_tnT.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck2F5ZdWUAA8m5D.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck2MxtPXEAE_tD8.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck2SXhdXAAAZbpa.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck2Sio4WgAA-j0_.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck2tb-bWUAE-jrc.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck2_GvxXIAEdhbG.jpg)

Scheme triumphed over talent as Conte’s tactics helped an ordinary Italy side beat star-studded Belgium

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/the-match/60/post/2892423/antonio-conte-tactics-too-good-as-italy-beat-belgium-at-euro-2016

UEFA imposes suspended disqualification from Euro 2016 on Russia

"suspension will be lifted if similar incidents happen remaining matches"

Massive fight has broken out at the football in France Romanians are fighting the poles . Albanians are fighting the Portuguese and the Turkish are fighting the slovakians police have said they will all be rounded up and deported back to England

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck7fqRnW0AIIH34.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck7jnJeXAAAJejp.jpg)

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Ray Parlour, who guested on the Sky Poker show last night, aired his views on Euro16.

Warning - may contain spam.

England v Wales
https://youtu.be/5NVU9sGBPSw

Rep Ireland v Belgium
https://youtu.be/P70zM3Dh-Pk

N Ireland v Ukraine
https://youtu.be/TX3U5o14VmQ

Germany v Poland
https://youtu.be/CFKy1jeSSHM

France v Albania
https://youtu.be/CJ0UvoixDtY

Spain v Turkey
https://youtu.be/YSN0cIcZUFE

Outright
https://youtu.be/neUBxUPD5As

Golden Boot
https://youtu.be/3ITycLPFp80

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck_xwELXIAAzZY9.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClAa3VhXIAAvXhz.jpg)

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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClBTC90WIAEW_Kb.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClBT8CiXEAA7Nvh.jpg)

into 100/30 for player of the tournament....

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClBYxw_WIAApKcZ.jpg)

Got him (e/w) at 66/1 for top scorer, I was concerned France may rest him for the last game but as its against the Swiss who can still win the group, that seems unlikely :)

France again looked suspect from corners, Albania could have scored a goal or 2 and must count themselves a little unlucky. No team yet to take a beating, is the gap in international football shortening a la the Premier League? All the teams look very well drilled and organised even if they lack a star player.

Under 2.5 goals must be getting smashed atm

Bookies seem to have adjusted for it though - for example total goal minutes on the spreads was 114 to buy in the Romania game last night, compared to 130/140 in a premier league game, 150 in a championship game, and 165 in a Peterborough game.

Nice rub from Rio there about Spurs.  'Ali certain to play for a big club very soon'  :D  Tried quickly to dig himself out of the hole.

Can we mark that one down as a Hart error?

Lol. Hart and sterling. How sterling gets in ahead of vardy is quite beyond me

In before Arb. Impressive ;)
And yes.

Joe fucking Fart!   Two things to do the whole first half.  Drops a cross in the first 5 minutes under no real pressure that could easily have led to a goal then that effort.  Enjoy your last 2 games Joe for England and your move to mid table EPL in the summer.  

Absolutely terrible. World class goalkeeper 😂😂😂

Vardy for sterling now please. Surely this is unarguable? Same pace, better finishing.

Like in the first game, Sterling, awful. Really bad. Wouldn't make my squad of 50 players let alone start.

Vardy and Sturrige on for Sterling and Kane at HT please.

Sterling is like having ten men. He is actually having a nett negative effect on England. Absolutely woeful performance from him.

Anthony knew :)

Reckon Sterling would have put away that Sturridge chance ;whistle;

He wouldn't have scored that one though  ;sexybanana; ;sexybanana;

Vardy looked way out of his depth, or at least not suited to this style at all. Would play Rashford and Sturridge, both looked class.

Thought Allo looked terrible though.

ROY FUKN HODGSON TAKE A BOW

Sturridge if he's fit should obv be 1st name on the sheet.

Lol. Vardy is best on the counter and in behind. Wales defended deep. Vardy had one chance, took it. Job done.

sturridge was class, great in a crowded box. i would start him next match too.

vardy, as george2loose says to me, would be good when we are up against it defending against germany or france with much less possession, hit them on the counter

i agree Dele Alli had a disappointing game

don't think we will see Sterling again this championships

Called it.

Sterling can't play a single minute for England again.

Rashford.

That is all

edit, lovely piece of skill by Alli for the sturridge goal.

Hart jumping around the pitch thanking the boys for covering up another shit game from him.  Please woy do the right thing don't be results orientated all your life.

Sturridge needs to play up top. Vardy when we are playing on the break

Drop Sterling move Alli further forward and bring in Wiltshere.

Thought Rooney and Cahill played really well

Think Rooney has been superb in both games so far.

Sterling is the English equivalent of Chicago's Jay Cutler.

Good to see positive subs at half time rather than leaving it until 10 mins to go.   Nifty result, could be more comfortable but this is England.

Unbiased question.

What do people think of Robbie Saveage as co-comm?

if you think he is good or bad, would you accept that is unconventional to have a co comm so very keen on the side he is supporting?


who are the best and worst pundits so far inthe euros?

can i put forward?

slaven bilic - brilliant

and you can give me some other names, good or bad

Liked Savage today.   Thought he was a bit biased first half but was very unbiased in the second half whilst still make it obvious he was massively up for it for Wales.

Think Savage is v good on radio phone ins. His straightforward nature works well in that format.

As a pundit or commentator I think he's absolute gash

Thought the reaction after the 1st game was absurd ( actually made a big post but iPad died lol) all you can ask for is the team gives it there all and you can't accuse them of not doing that. We are very unlikely to win the tournament but so far I'm absolutely delighted at how we've gave it 100% for once in a major tournament, and I would've said that if it finished 1-1. You can say the manager got things wrong, you can criticise performances as that's what everyone loves to do but who has played so far that isn't giving it a 100% ?

Absolutely buzzing and feel it was thoroughly deserved.

i like the idea of colour commentary for football.

football is a pretty dull sport. a good portion of the time the ball is out of play, when it is in play nothing much happens. as goals are so rare, slight run good in taking / missing chances / bad decisions in relation to goals disproportionally changes the outcome of games - and it renders much analysis irrelevant and completely results oriented.

so when you have people over-analysing the game and theorising over formations and tactics i find it to be a complete snooze-fest. much rather have people being partisan and giving strident unbalanced opinions.

people taking football seriously is a turn off for me.

The result really moves away criticism from Hart, when potentially if we didn't grab the win he was the sole reason we may not have qualified. I think Slovakia will give us a good game & we was looking at elimination. Questionable for the Russia goal, completely at fault for the second. If we had Butland in the team, would be calling for him to be taking over.

Sick of Alli getting involved in confrontations too.

We deserved the win in the end though.

As for Savage, he really is dull as dishwater. But at least he isn't biased, he could have been a Wales pundit saying they deserved a point, but told it How it was that Wales didn't deserve a point.

The group also very unclear. Wales still can finish bottom!

Decent performance. Deserved to win. Sterling shocking again. Hart again letting himself down. Hennessy even worse though. Worst keeper in the prem imo.

One thing this tournament is highlighting for me - Christian Eriksen is a hell of a player. Pulls the strings for Spurs and makes Kane and Alli much better players.

Kyle Walker was outstanding today. Superb display.

Vardy only 7 touches all 2nd half which is ridiculously low but doesn't matter if he gets an important striker goal.
Sturridge has to start next time out - classiest striker we have. Glad now that Hodgson took the chance on him with his dodgy fitness.

As for the City boys, Sterling woeful and, after his v good 1st half against Russia,  that is 90 mins of nothing and unlikely we will be seeing him again. Comedy keeping from Hart - as bad as it gets that one.

Eriksen plays on the left in our current system. He's had far less influence than previous years, although he's top or close to the top in our running stats, I believe.

Dembélé is the man that pulls the strings. I thought Alli had a quiet game but he was clearly targeted by 90s Gary Barlow Aaron Ramsey. Dier I thought did a decent job, with a few good interceptions and tackles.

Full backs are loving this system and, like the rest of us, I'm delighted to see Kane taken off corners (Premier League's top scorer from corners last season). He's only scored one free kick, too, and that took a wicked deflection. Surely Rooney is handy close up and Dier or Walker can leather one from distance?

Walker could end up a star of this tourney if he improves his final product/ we get a striker who adapts to what hes doing. Think people are writing off kane too early, the way we are playing/having to play hasnt suited him and once we play teams interested in playing football he will shine. The llama is pointless, we need goals from his position and hes a negative option. We need to get to a situation against slovakia where it looks like the front 5 are a threat, sterling and llalana havent done this and need dropped. Think he should look at the diamond again but with alli at point instead of rooney. We simply have no wide players and everyone looks uncomfortable as wide of 3.

Thought savage was very good today. Obviously up for the Welsh which is fine from a co-comm, but gave good impartial opinions throughout.

The only annoying thing about him was that he was good as I can't normally stand him.

Agree that Bilic has been great. Just don't like Henry even though he speaks well. and the usual MOTD crew are pretty awful.

As for England. Great to see Rashford playing like Sterling used to before things got serious. Poor Raheem, seems to carry the weight of the world and looks like he needs to fall in love with the game again. Nothing comes naturally to him now and I'll be amazed if he gets another minute in this comp.

Vardy needs to start, especially in  the games where we are losing the possession stats. Wiltshire needs to play as well for me. Think Roy got lucky today against an average side. I'm happy to give him credit for bold substitutions but overall he seems a bit clueless. Can't remember him playing 3/4 strikers before in a warm up game or qualifier so it appears his plan B was concocted in the Lens toilets at half time when he's had all year to draw one up and try it out.

Roy did the 4 strikers at Fulham when they made the Europa Final.
Vardy was peripheral other than his goal. He's not suited to a game where the opposition are playing deep and defending hard. Not sure Slovakia will play much different from Wales, a draw will probably be enough for them. Start with Sturridge or Rashford alongside Kane feels better. I thought Lallana might be an answer in the first half hour v Russia, but much as it pains me to say it, maybe Milner really does warrant a place. If only Delph had been available and not ruined by greed.

Delph?
Where would he fit in

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClE7cwhWAAAbOnb.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClFB2oaWEAAGvKE.jpg)

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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClFrXP3WkAAZfUC.jpg)

(https://o.twimg.com/2/proxy.jpg?t=HBhcaHR0cDovL2kuZGFpbHltYWlsLmNvLnVrL2kvcGl4LzIwMTYvMDYvMTYvMTgvMzU1RERFMUUwMDAwMDU3OC0wLWltYWdlLWEtMjVfMTQ2NjA5NzE2NzI2NC5qcGcU-AkUmAUcFIQGFJQDAAAWABIA&s=wQs6ek0Ei2JC0MCEsgzJA9VXzoUy4c7xkPrwsT7hPx4)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClGdlTFWMAAPSsS.jpg)

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F*** knows, I was just indulging in a little City baiting :)

But there has to be a better option than Lallana.

any thoughts on any issue or not with Kane

as usual people are trying to back fit to work out his performances

one suggestion is he is knackered

65 games in the last 12 months

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClI7ahbUkAI0uKr.jpg)

Petit said last night "that is why you English will never win anything, no winter break"

He has certainly looked a bit sluggish over a game and a half here

why would he lack confidence after the season he has had?

Wuld you start him against Slovakia? Try and get him a goal.......

Rooney has surprised me with his (relative) composure in the midfield role. Assuming Sterling is toast, I'd start Wilshere in a central role, move Alli out to the left and Sturridge for Kane seems a no-brainer while Kane is having a, hopefully, temporary dip in form

Looks a bit silly that we don't have Townsend as an option now

Was also thinking that Rooney is having his best tournament for a while and thinking it's no coincidence that the weight of expectation on him is far far less than previous tourns. Probably quite liberating for him.

With Kane I imagine playing the U21 tournament last year, and now Euros this year is tough.  Plus Spurs very rarely rotate him (if at all?)

I'd rest Kane for the first half vs Slovakia. Let him come on early in the 2nd. He will react well imo as he did when sub previous. Sturridge lost or wasted possession a lot on the wing and either plays upfront or doesn't play for me. We need two forwards in the middle to allow our fullbacks good work to have an end product as swinging it in atm seems to be betting on your striker outdoing 4 players. Our width is the key to success and obv we only now how fullbacks to provide this. Let's see vardy and Sturridge, we may just benefit from sturridges injury plagued season meaning he's fresh and give vardy 60 mins to show what he's got, then let Kane show us what he's got. Make Kane hungry and fight for his place and he will come back better imo. Play 4 in midfield, Rooney alli dier and pick one that's not called Milner.

Really looking forward to watching Croatia later. Modric, Rakitic, Perisic. What a superb midfield they have.

Odds on commentator pointing out the Czechs aren't the ones in checks?

Started every PL game last season.

I figure the table below will come in useful over the next few days:

* If England or Wales top Group B they're very unlikely to face Northern Ireland, it'll be one of Romania/Albania or Turkey/Czech Republic.
* If England or Wales finish third in Group B they're very likely to face Germany or Poland
* If Northern Ireland finish third in Group C they're most likely to face France (or whoever wins Group A)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClJjkJUUoAE8DVK.jpg)

finishing second looks pretty nice there, group F are all pretty poor based on first showing.

Croatia looked like the best side in the tourney , dunno whos had the bigger meltdown their fans or their players.

Wow, who has the co-commentator tonight in the Spain match? Worst I've ever heard, awful

Tony Pulis

in the last sixteen the permuations are in the graph below

we are heading for

#ITA - #CRO
#NIR - #FRA
#SUI - #POL

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClLjNAJWAAEwlRs.jpg)

lol

you didn't recognise Pulis?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClKX5VtWAAAnQpH.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClKSvxsXIAA58_J.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClKw2xXWEAAQTYk.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClK0JnDWkAAlshU.jpg)

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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClLU0ENWEAA1uXL.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClLWaFLWEAAk-ot.jpg)

Minutes of Euro 2016 goals thus far:

5 10 18 19 31 32 32 37 41 42 44 45 47 49 50 51 54 56 57 57 61 62 65 71 73 80 81 87 88 88 89 90 90 90 90 90 90 90

Goals do tend to cluster towards the end of the games

Don't forget what's classed as the 90th minute probably averages 180 - 300 seconds with added time - so even discounting the effects of tiredness, teams sitting back - pushing forward the '90th' minute is already 3-5 times more likely to house a goal as it lasts longer than all other minutes

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClPbf5bXIAEFrna.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClPbiN7WYAAo4GC.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClPcWBNWkAAKxg7.jpg)

(https://o.twimg.com/2/proxy.jpg?t=HBhcaHR0cDovL2kuZGFpbHltYWlsLmNvLnVrL2kvcGl4LzIwMTYvMDYvMTgvMTUvMzU2RDg0NzcwMDAwMDU3OC0wLWltYWdlLWEtNjBfMTQ2NjI2MDMzMDY1NC5qcGcU-AkUmAUcFIQGFJQDAAAWABIA&s=_0_4ZQ5YgDnBPR391Hvku6SlzzqhiXLbOOsqz4ny_G0)

Voted the two best pics of Euro 2016 so far in one poll

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClRCUqjWMAApCBx.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClRCR9mWMAAMP7x.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClP2xWQWYAA9LTV.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClQNUzsXIAApP3X.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClQw4SfWkAAIIGC.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClQ1KanWYAEY22q.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClQtMbgWgAAyPfj.jpg)

The goalkeeping throughout this competition has been awful.

Been away all weekend, have I missed much? Sterling still absolute class and Hart as solid as a rock?

;D

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClU_YI0WgAAloTs.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClV32zpXEAEHt25.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClV7-iQWAAA2PTP.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClV40yQWgAIsrVX.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClWFCvVWIAExUpQ.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClWEl4_WYAA77Ec.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClWCgTuWIAA4ykH.jpg)


Team is apparently

                   Hart

Clyne Smalling Cahill Bertrand

                 Dier

          Henderson Wilshere

             Lallana

         Sturridge Vardy

I can completely understand two  of those changes, the two strikers. Roy & his team obviously have more info than us, but given the earliest we can play is Saturday then resting the two full backs, who've been key, seems a slight risk. Clyne and Bertrand both good though so talent drop off not massive and the diamond system means they won't have to provide as much width.

Alli for Wilshere is fine IMO but that seems a choice born out of resting Rooney which to me seems like madness. He's been in great form, is the captain and highly experienced. Resting him for a must win game seems insane. Quite ironic given many wanted him left at home.

Agree, resting Rooney seems bad plan unless he's asked for it.

Why is the team leaked every single game without fail and nobody seems to give a shit about that ?

I'm guessing here but to me it seems to usually be a combo of comments from Hodgson & 'bib theory' in how England line-up in their final training session.

I wonder when the last time was that the papers got it wrong ? Seems to be spot on everytime, bit of a joke.

I assumed it was most likely from a leak in the camp.

They got it wrong when they took a picture of some names on Ray Lewington's clip board and said it would be the opening lineup for the Russia Game. They were also wrong when some fringe England players were pictured modelling the New England suits (Gibbs was one of them I think). The British press really is the pits, don't forget their European Super League 'Exclusive'

Decent analysis this: https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/euro-2016--will-seismic-changes-actually-improve-england-110153260.html

Wilshire performance was absolutely disgraceful.

Such poor management from Roy not playing Stones today, very important to have him stepping out with the ball and being positive.

We looked so narrow in the second half, not taking Townsend was big mistake, especially if Barkley isn't getting on the pitch.

Hendo wilshere and sterling should be on plane home. All terrible

Same for Llalana imo. Wasted playing advanced as even worse than Sterling at shooting

Well done Wales!

Great team performance.

This, very well done, enjoy it.

Superstars win titles in sport.  Wales have one.  England have none.  I would love to see Wales win it all.  They have got a lovely draw now.

It is incredible how many bang average players are lauded in this England squad.  Wiltshire going to be the next greatest overpaid EPL/Arsenal star to follow in Walcott's shoes over the next 5 years.

Hendo was shocking. I saw five of his crosses and every single one was overhit, culminating in the last one that was still too high for Kane. He had one strike that was heading straight at the keeper until a defender blocked it. It's only because he plays for Liverpool that he's so over-rated. Thank god he's been forced out of the starting eleven.

If Hendo played for Southampton, West Ham, Stoke or Everton he would be nowhere near this Engerland squad.  Amazing what playing for a once great mid table club does for your pulling power.  He is an absolute joke as i said before the Euro's how he is even close to being in this squad which is bang average anyway.  Is milner still in France or gone on holiday?  Of all the scousers i was expecting to play this summer i thought he would be involved just for his work rate.

Did woy think we already had 6 points on the board and first place locked up tonight then?  What was the deal with dropping the two full backs who created all the problems against Wales and the space?  Seriously wonder if these gaffers actually understand the implications of taking the piss out of the event resting players when winning the group gives you such an easier route.  I thought i had seen it all with England until this team selection tonight.

But when we had all the superstars we still got no-where! Greece were a good example of a no-superstar team winning something.

Well done to Wales I hope they kick on even more. Didn't you tip them to win the euros or WC at some huge price a while ago arbboy?

It's always tough to play against a team that defends as deep and as organised as Slovakia were tonight. Especially so when you lack the spark of genius.
Most of the best creators of chances in the EPL aren't English, we're left with lots of players who are ball winners and recyclers, and strikers who need the ball played to their specific strengths. Had Vardy's one significant moment ended in a goal who knows how the game would have gone.

KO games will suit us better, as long as we don't get to a shootout obviously.

Draw opening up nicely for Spain now if they can avoid defeat against Croatia.

Will be fantastic for them if Portugal also end up in the bottom half of the draw. Great opportunity for Wales to progress to the last eight here and even beyond as Belgium are not playing to their potential. England could be ruing the team selection if we end up playing Portugal and Wales play against Albania.

Just poor tonight though, yet the commentators are just so positive. I don't get it.

Yes but that isn't why i want them to win.  I have a few quid on but nothing life changing.  I think they are under rated outside of Bale (who is always relatively under rated for me).  I think the gaffer is under rated.   People under rate Ashley Williams massively (he would start for England for me at CH).  Ramsey is hardly ever spoke about (an upgrade on club mate Wiltshire?)

We have been piss poor in all three games.  Let's not forget who we are playing in this group.

We hadn't had a true world superstar since Gazza and Lineker whatever the media will fool the public into thinking in recent years with all the EPL hype.

Roy is delighted as usual I see.  5 points in that group but Roy's take is "the way we are playing I don't fear anyone.  We could not have done more"

I really hope Portugal finish second and drill us in the 2nd round.  Properly drill us as well.  30 years i have been watching England and listening to all the same bullshit event after event from the media/managers/players.  As it stands that looks 10% likely we play Portugal and 80% likely we play Hungary or Iceland.  So we fall into the last 8 and then get drilled as usual and say 'that's where we should have finished' blah blah the same as the last 20 years.

Who are people selecting for the 11 against the mighty Iceland or Hungary then?

Gonna be the same problem for Wales.
They were shocking against us and their defence will get taken apart when they do play someone decent.

Piss poor is just a beyond ridiculous statement to make, nearly as much so as the cringeworthy Woy posts itt. This is ofc coming from a blinkered, idiotic, patriotic (PC wanker re the Woy criticism obv) England fan (ignoring the fact I said we may not get out the group of course). Germany played a drab 0-0 draw, does that mean they are awful also ? France took 89 mins to break Albania down so they are surely woeful as well.

It's just fucking drivel, why England fans have to be so negative I have no idea. Who of the players that have played in 3 games so far would you say hasn't gave 100% ? If the answer to that is nobody then wtf is there to complain about ? We aren't a team full of stars, we don't have one Superstar in the whole team, why not just be glad they are through and appreciate they are giving it there all instead of wanting to rip shreds off them ? Plenty in the past rightfully deserved criticism, I just don't see that here at all. When we play a Germany or a Spain we will very likely get hammered and be on the next plane home, why fucking bitch and moan every game until that point if we are giving it everything and not playing that poorly either.

Can we still blame Sterling for tonight? I'm unsure.

Extremely poor. At least Hodgson won't now have his contract renewed.

God knows how Barkley didn't come on, albeit off form towards end of season he would have been the player to unlock such a negative team.

France are beatable though and so is anyone from group F.

Well said Way  ;)

Yes, if he'd converted any of his chances vs Russia we would have been top. ;)

to answer Ray's question, i think he is far too harsh on the fans

Yes there has certainly been an unwarranted sense of entitlement about Egland's prospects for many major championships

and yes we don't have world class players

but finishing second in the group is entirely self-inflicted by the manager

of course this is results orientated, we should have been winning at half time and job done

but he's made six changes when we weren't guaranteed to win the group without a result. I could understand the strikers and could understand both full backs possibly but resting Rooney and Alli seemed a step too far to me

Surely he must have started with a first choice team and then rested players through substitutions if the situation allowed it? the imperative to anyone even with a cursory glance at the draw was to stay out of the bottom half and france/germany/italy

from a broader perspective he's picked two players in Wilshere and Henderson for the squad who are just coming back to fitness. Not a single winger in the squad (Townsend would have presented a very different challenge for Slovakia in the second half).

Compare to France for whom Payet and Kante didn't play qualifying, got picked on 2016 form and have both made a huge difference in the early stages of this championship. Deschamps went for form not reputation.

Wilshere and Henderson played qualifying, Hodgson is stubborn and loyal and picks them on past form and they are both disappointing when required.

As for Barkley, what's he doing in the squad? Awful season, devoid of confidence, Hodgson doesn't see him as an option off the bench even when he is rotating in a third group game.  

I think all of this is the frustration that gets expressed, and you don't need to think that England should be winning the competition or every game to express it. Nor do you need to think that any player isn't giving 100%, clearly they are and its an irrelevance to the complaint. The complaint is with Hodgson. We're average but better tactics and selections would maximise outr chances, such as they are, more

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Barkley was in a very poor Everton team and managed 8 goals and 8 assists. His previous season he managed only 2 goals.

Allí managed 10 goals and 9 assists in an exceptional Spurs team.

Lallana 4 goals, 6 assists.

Sterling 6 goals 2 assists.

Its just typical of Englands fans to sum up Barkley as having an "awful season" or lacking in confidence. Sure sometimes his team didn't play well and he didn't have much of the ball, but throughout the season he dominated games and performed statistically better than those who are getting the nod ahead of him.

Theres a lot of players who shouldn't have got in the squad, Barkley for sure wasn't one of them.

I think both he and John Stones are top, top class and will prove it over the next few years.

One of the reasons we didn't pick the Slovakians apart was distribution, Stones would have been a far more assured defensive option and more tactical minded managers would have realised that. Barkley also has the drop of the shoulder in those tight areas and can penetrate and commit players. Not even going to start with Townsend.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3315195/Barcelona-star-Gerard-Pique-picks-world-XI-Everton-s-John-Stones-dream-team-Wayne-Rooney-bench.html

I think this says a lot!

but Hodgson chose not to pick Barkley even when he made a raft of changes, or bring him on when needing a goal?. Spoke volumes

i should have clarified. barkley's form dipped dramatically after Xmas. how much is him, how much the team/manager etc...don't know. watched him closely live towards the end of the season and he couldn't have given less of a toss about the game he was playing in.

don't care too much about your arbitrary statistics really. he's a "reputation" pick not a "form" pick.

Stones is classy, but would you be happy if injury meant he was in our back four for a quarter against France? i wouldn't be, might be in 2-3 years when he's been De-Martinezed and properly coached 

He's only one game away from being England's most successful manager since Euro 96.

That article is from November, which maybe says something you didn't intend. Stones was high up on most people's lists back then.  He may well have a bright future, but he did seem to get worse as the season went on.

I am a bit with Ray on this.  I think we played ok in all 3 games.  In the last game we started with the 2 strikers people were calling for and though I wouldnt have dropped the full backs, but Clyne played very well.  And on the midfielders, I thought Rooney had well, but some had been calling for specialists  and many others had said don't even take him.  Feels like you can't win.

Roy seems to get castigated for both taking no risks (he has the youngest squad here??); and taking too many.  I think we were all over them last night and just got unlucky, as we did vs the Russians.  Either way we are still in and I don't think we are that bad.  We started art 9/1, now we are 10/1 or a bit bigger, so that doesn't suggest a major catastrophe.

I'd much prefer to be in the other half of the draw, but Hungary are pretty bad and Portugal have been worse than us.  I think France are too short in the betting, so even though meeting them so early isn't ideal, I'd much rather face them than Spain.

I just think the majority are much keener to pick holes in what he's doing then to praise him.

certainly true, but i don't think its aimed at many (a few, but that will always be the case) of the players.

I think Hodgson has performed averagely overall.  Good in qualifying, disappointing in major events (so far).  My issue with him is that he constantly talks up the team (and thus his own performance) to the point that some of his post match comments are gibberish (eg Portugal friendly and Costa Rica world cup match).  I find that really off putting.  He's an average manager delivering average performances who talks rubbish in press conferences as far as I am concerned.  

England are playing France/Germany/Italy/Spain in the late stages of this knockout comp

we are going to be under the pump for territory and possession

(does Hodgson know his best team?)


what formation and team do you line up with?

I still have hope for when we play the bigger nations as we've got quite a lot of pace.  I just hope Wilshire is not in the team for those games.  We can't afford to have players who are not match fit (as should have been obvious to Hodgson when he picked the squad).

When was the last time a team at a major championship rested both their clear first choice full backs for a game that wasn't a dead rubber?  Has it ever happened?  Hard to imagine Cashley/Red Nev would have been rested 10 years ago in a game like that.

You don't think the difference in quality is much closer than when those 2 played ? Clyne was very good lnite, Bertrand not as impressive but a few on here were saying Bertrand >>>>>> Rose.

He guna look like a genius when Wales end up with Croatia in last 16 :P

Forster is as good as Hart but we didn't play him.  Surely it's about building momentum and understanding - it's a 7 match tournament not a league season.

Roy did a good illustration just now on what I was talking about his press conferences.  Someone asked about the 6 changes and Roy started banging on about Vardy and Sturridge against Wales.  That's right Roy - the question was really about Vardy and Sturridge as opposed to Wilshire, Henderson and the full backs, but you go ahead and brush your errors under the carpet.

99.9% of managers do that though ?

If someone had said Roy would have made 6 changes for last night and not dropped Hart most punters would have struggled to name the 6 players he would have changed and who they would have been replaced by. I would be amazed if anyone in England apart from Roy would have played the 11 he did last night.

I don't think I've ever seen a manager describe a poor/average performance as strong as much as Hodgson does for England.  Wenger often concedes below par performances when his team mess up a winnable game?

I don't understand this comment.  We made 2012, 2006, 2004, 2002 Quarter Finals of various tournaments (although I agree Roy's squad isn't as good as some of those so it counts for more)?

I totally agree that it was ott and too risky. I'd never have rested Rooney unless he requested it which I highly doubt, same with Alli. I would just rather support them when they're giving 100% as I've already said, maybe I just set the bar so low after the disappointment of the last few tournaments that have just been dire. Just think people could and should be a bit more positive.

I'm fully behind d our boys, proper jingoistic like, but Roy is tewwible

I probably agree with you in that I think we've looked pretty good in the matches and I still think we've got a shot here.  I just have a gripe with Hodgson taking a completely needless risk and now we are in the wrong half of the draw.  I just don't understand it.  I understand little of what he says or does to be honest.  I think he's a negative to our hopes but the FA love him so hey-ho.

edit: and to be fair most of the flak I see is directed at Hodgson's thought processes, rather than the players themselves.

I guess we see different Wenger interviews post match then :P

I agree that he's not the best public speaker, but these days think very few actually excel in this department, big fan of Klopp for this.

We are, no doubt, playing better than in the recent past but it doesn't feel like part of a cohesive strategy. O  the other hand..Roy has chucked in a lot of good young players and form players despite the blunders with wilshere, henderson, Barklay (probably). Deserves a bit of credit compared with the turgidity of the play when we kept picking the same old players from the lolden generation a few years back

I think the Portugal game was so bad he realised playing Rooney as a no10 was a terrible plan. I think better late then never he also realised our defence is not good enough so created this system to support them as much as possible whilst also trying to play everyone in correct positions. Most people on here, myself included, said Rooney either shouldn't go or shouldn't be in the team yet most would now agree he's been our best player. Everyone will have differing opinions on some decisions and would do things different, overall I think he's doing a decent job of it.

Ofc there's a difference between positivity and stupidity and once France tear us a new one in the quarters I'll be more than happy to jump on the Roy is a twat and there all useless wankers bandwagon, may as well enjoy it for now though.

"I think the Portugal game was so bad he realised playing Rooney as a no10 was a terrible plan."

Maybe he did Mondatoo, but he'd have more credibility if he didn't talk gibberish afterwards in that case:

"I'm not prepared to accept that we didn't play well,” Hodgson said. “We looked good, we had composure throughout the game"

Yep. Have had to do a complete about face with Rooney..didn't think he could play that role from the evidence at man u

If his worst crime is refusing to criticise his side straight after a game, then he can't be that bad. Some excellent managers have been masters of that art.

It's something that winds me up in the extreme.  I am already cringing at the thought of what he will come out with if we lose to France and he is trying to spin it for a new contract.

It's not his worse failing of course.  His team selection last night and an unfit Wilshire being in the squad are worse in the grand scheme of things.

I think I'm ok mostly with last night. Generally played ok, and wouldn't end up scoreless very often if we repeated that game a number of times.
Wilshere? Think he's auto in the squad at his best, therefore it's probably a reasonable risk to take him.

Of the opinion that not taking Townsend is an error though. Shape of the team is much better with Sterling, and we are short of options if he doesn't feel that he can put him in.

this is an interesting perspective

"England arrived in France with Leicester in mind but look more like Arsenal "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/06/21/england-arrived-at-euro-2016-with-leicester-in-mind-but-have-loo/

Danny Sturridge. Fantastic finisher and absolutly lethal in the box. But why is he so obsessed with dropping so deep? Even 3 minutes into a game so can't use the excuse that he wasn't getting service.

Henderson rated as England's best player in L'Equipe today 7/10. The Slovak goalie got their MOM with 8/10. They are pretty mean with their marking to be fair but seemed a bit odd with Henderson.

Although Walker has been fantastic you can't really say that wasn't the reason we didn't win - I thought Clyne was our best player by far.  Rooney and Alli needed to play yes, but we still should've been able to do the job with that team.

The stronger teams won't park the bus so maybe we'll have more openings.

Think we played well over the three games, lots of positivity and creating chances, finishing was lacking but it's a far cry from the performances from 2014 and other recent tournaments.

Watching how Germany play against a deep defence. Use width and quick interchanges, one touch passing. By comparison we were narrow and slow. Slovakia and northern Ireland one spot apart in the fifa rankings

Henderson's stats rating was pretty good - 3rd highest after Clyne and Dier for the starting 11.

Skrtel was the overall stats MOTM and their keeper was 2nd.

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Not sure how my thought process bears out but to my mind Euro 96 apart in tournaments spanning since 1988 I get the impression taht at major champs that England always seem to struggle for goals when they get to the big tournaments. 

Despite the action generated in the PL  it always seems to me that they are concerned first of all by not losing the game and dont really have a go, and it feels like a waste with some of the players who have played for England during that time. 

Even now, the play seems so one dimensional and slow. 

As David said yesterday, all of the best creative players in the PL are not English. Our strikers in this tournament are not bring supplied by the quality of player they are at club level eg Silva, De bruyne, ozil, fabregas, mahrez,eriksen etcetc

De Gea is such a jobbing keeper.

Spain-Italy thought we had fucked up lololol

. Spain, Germany, France, Italy, england In the same half!

Given the Croatia keeper position for the pen save off his line can someone explain the purpose of the referee tools on the goal line?  We have goal line tech so surely on a penalty that is his sole job of the 5th official or whatever he is called?

Puts NI through aswell, well deserved imo, well their keeper deserved it

Those extra referees on the line have been fkn useless ever since they were brought in. Every week in euro comps they miss something blatantly obvious.

I've thrown a couple of darts at Wales to win the whole thing e/w - there's a touch of attacking incisivenss there that can stand them in good stead now they're in the weaker half of the draw.

I have done a little 40-1 ew Wales bet365 too. Don't think the price will last. Northern Ireland then Belgium then Croatia maybe?

Anyone know where we can get an updated version of that percentages table that Tighty posted the other day?

Croatia 7/1 is surely a massive overcorrection to beating Spain (when Spain missed a penalty)

It's entirely due to the draw. Spain have nearly doubled in price

Kick on wAles. I might escape on the month with a Wales win and bale top scorer!! What a chance they have. 

That is true now but even when there were guys like Beckham, Scholes, Gerrard,Lampard, Gazza etc it seems to my mind that there were still issues scoring goals??

I see no reason why England with the players they have should be playing 2 holding midfielders, perhaps in games against better teams that's a tactic to use but that Russian side were bad and Slovakia not much beter.  Wales are no better than average and despite lots of posession the results have been unconvincing.  

Are there creative players in England who could have gone to these champs who never made the squad?  

I stated on here a few weeks ago I thought he was a cracking keeper and worthy of a move to the EPL, a disaster by Celtic letting him leave like the same way we let Given. Friedel, Marshall etc pretty much walk out the door. 

no I don't think there are. Number of eligible English players in the top sides at very low levels as a whole too

Did you do this as a double, or two separate bets? I like the methodology if they let you do it as a double.

Bottom half of the EURO2016 draw has nations with 20 major titles (11 WC, 9 Euros). Top half: ZERO.

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Will Grigg's heat map for the Euros so far

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I love the fact he isn't even playing

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Are we betting Wales because we really think they can win it or just the 33/1 is too big? England are poor according to everyone yet we outplayed them ?

Who is saying to bet Wales at 33/1?

JUst seen the previous page with people saying they are backing them. 

They were backing them at 40/1 though.  A bit quicker and they could get 50/1.  Think 33/1 is less appealing, but there must be a price where they are still too big. 

PS need to bump that 500/1 conversation.   

Iceland score in late injury time!

Incred scenes

So who do we play?

Iceland

The horrendous goalkeeping continues

As does the excellent refereeing.

I've hardly seen any controversy or refs who want to be the stars of the show.

Largely agree.  The Spanish penalty was a joke though.  Keeper 3 yards off line and Croatian defenders encroaching.  5th official and referee looking directly at both offences respectively.

Obviously true even if there was a slight stutter-step.

I'm not sure that I can recall one of those 5th officials ever making a pertinent call.

He did one today in the Portugal game!  Authoritatively signalled goal kick when ref wasn't sure.

You gotta feel for the oirish tonight - they're getting fouled left, right and center and not getting anything from the ref.

Sorry I'm on my phone but what's the route? Once we beat Iceland (if) who is the game were matched against? Ad

France (probably).

Clattenburg.

Another goalkeeping error. So bad.

Or ROI

(https://s32.postimg.org/zaall8fk1/round_of_16.png) (https://postimg.org/image/zaall8fk1/)

What ever happens against Wales, they've got to give the lad some game time, even if it's just a token minute at the end of the match.

Hopefully, Robbie Keane handles the ball into the net, does his trademark handspring, forward roll and cowboy firing trick and the stickman sees nothing.

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^ horrible moment. I hope they smash the frogs.

Has Henry ever talked about that incident?  At least Maradona plays up to the camera as pantomime villain but Henry just seems to airbrush it from history and want to come over as a wonderful media ambassador.

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i assume we've all seen this?

cracking stuff. Iceland no pushovers on monday either, sit deep and ask us to break them down. just as well we have so many game changers really

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u9bB23X7No

another great euro2016 photo

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(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq167/Andr4w/image_zpsmeqfqngk.jpeg) (http://s444.photobucket.com/user/Andr4w/media/image_zpsmeqfqngk.jpeg.html)

who scored's team of the group stages

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Off to France tomorrow morning to take in the Wales/NI, Germany/Slovakia and Italy/Spain games. Pleased I purchased my Euros a few weeks back!

BREAKING NEWS
Wayne Rooney has just been found sobbing his heart out at a French Airport saying "I can't believe we're out of the Euros"

england 6 major tournament knockout game wins in 50 years

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Why is Michael Oliver being lino for Martin Atkinson?

each referee is assisted by 4 referees from his own association.the clattenburg refereeimg team includes marriner behind the goal for example

Some goal from shaqiri didnt deserve to go home.

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 rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao good one Woodsey

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whoscored top 10 players so far:

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According to most papers  England starting  with a front 3 of Sturridge, Kane and Sterling.  Lallana and Vardy on the bench.

vary or kane tonight?

predictions on team?

Class starting to show through now we are into the knockout phase.
England need a convincing win

Hart
Walker
Cahill
Smalling
Rose

Dier
Rooney
Alli

Sturridge
Kane
Sterling

Not a prediction as such but this appears to be the team papers are going with so Kane rather than Vardy and Sterling rather than Lallana

understand kane over vardy. sturridge has to play and vardy needs more space in behind than iceland have to offer

without getting tabloid and me just saying "he's crap", what would be the thinking in re-introducing Sterling?

Surely just the sheer pace he has verses a relative paceless Iceland defence? Can't be any other reason right?  He has a bigger relative edge as a player in this game than any other with his limited skill set.

Lallana missed the last couple training sessions also.

I'd rather have Vardy to bring off the bench then play him oop which doesn't seem to suit him.

Think this too.  Was all over the Russians at the start of that game.  Brave by Hodgson even if I think it is probably right.  It isn't like Lallana and Kane have been that great.  Think Vardy is a bit unlucky, but maybe the best time fir him is against France or Germany.

Beat Iceland 1-0 with Kane and sterling
Hodgson won't drop them in the next round and we're out

I like how you've turned a potential England win into a negative lol! I really hope Sterling has a good game tonight he gets so much abuse from England Fans that his confidence is shot too pieces. Vardy not starting makes sense be good to see him brought on if we take the lead and Iceland then have to push further up.

Disagree with Arb that Sterling specifically has a bigger relative edge in this game - some of his best games in the the last 12 months have been in the Champions League against quality teams.

Agree with Doobs that Sterling was all over Russia in the 1st half of that game. If that Sterling turns up tonight he is better than Vardy playing down the left. If the other Sterling turns up it will be scapegoat time again.

I don't get that. Take Kane, sure he has had a poor tournament based on the 150 minutes we've seen him for. Hardly a great sample size and with strikers 1 goal can see the floodgates opening. A bit like Shearer who went 2 seasons without scoring for England over 12 or 13 games before Euro96. He then was excellent.

Agree with that. It's not just England fans - he has been hammered by the media as well.

Kompany will be in demand in the media when he hangs up his boots. Completely shits all over nearly all the other pundits and embarrasses the likes of Rio, Shearer, Murphy etc

Ha, go Sterling fk the haters

Edith ffs

Sterlings fault for not giving their long throw specialist a dead arm in the tunnel.

What'll come first a Rooney forward pass or Kyle walker showing competence in defence?

He did give the (beautifully dandruff free) Joe one though.

Lol

The England defence and Joe Hart, who knew ;whistle; ;whistle; ;whistle;

If Hodgson doesn't drop that clown in the net (if we get through), then he really doesn't deserve another contract. Mistake every f-game

I seem to be in some bizzare alternate universe where Iceland are outplaying England. What's happening in the real world?

Only on the score board, just a crying shame every time they have the ball in our half we fall apart.

Squad looks thin now - Ross barkley anyone ? I would

Rashford. Play sturridge central too. Anything really!

Looking forward to the England equaliser when that dullard goalkeeper runs the length of the pitch to celebrate  as if he is making a positive contribution.

It's like a conspiracy from Joe Hart just to prove Arbboy right.

lol

Not mine but the favourite line I saw "hodgson standing there like a golden retriever trying to understand a card trick"

Iceland 2.82 on the exchange. How tempting?!

You not think this is made for Vardy?  Their defence has been quite high at times?

Will lay

Maybe not.  Wilshere for dier??

Because wilshere is another in form game changer. Yes roy. Exactly what I was thinking

Rumors going around that Joe Hart pulled Iceland in the England team sweepstake.

Amazing not one for Roy bashing, but that was baffling unless Dier is injured

The leave voters were in the majority, Cameron resigned, Corbyn won't resign, the £ has gone tits up.....

Between the subs bench and the crowd it might be that every male Icelander over 20 and under 50 is in the crowd.

I love that 'OOH' thing they do

ffs, doing tricks in our box now - look like Brazil

The incompetent Hodgson now asking Vardy to save his job.

It always seems harsh picking on the manager but really - £4m a year to have absolutely no game plan..against Iceland - contrast it with Italy and it's just laughable

Bale carrying Wales. Payet carrying France.

British Airways carrying England.

Kane's freekicks are great

Rooney insisting on standing in the centre circle and spraying Hollywood passes to the full backs.

The English pirlo

It's jokes when Ronaldo tries it from 35 yards but at least he is Ronaldo

If that is right we have paid this dinosaur 20 million to waste 5 years.  He is no further forward than when we played for a penalty shootout against Italy in Euro 2012.  Useless clown.

I hope we go out, can't deal with how bad we are and how naive Hodgson is.

Not to mention Glenn Hoddle who just said "good save by Joe Hart, makes up for this earlier error" when hart saved a shot straight at him.

75 min, England 1-2 Iceland

This is our Eddo Brandes moment.

We clearly need an aussie coach.

The worst thing is that Iceland really haven't played well.  Just mistake after mistake.  Didn't think this week could get worse.

Come on ffs

Get BoJo on

I guess this is what happens when you leave form players behind and stick to the managers favourites.  

But also can't just be the manager becauuse Sven and Capello never done that much better in terms of threatening to win a major.

Hodgson making a sub in the 86th minute. This man is truly deluded.

We have no game changers. Fetchers, carriers but no one to pick a pass. Players out of position. No tactics. No heart. Utterly inept on and off the field and frankly embarrasingq

Can't wait for Hodgson to come out with his usual post match gibberish about how unlucky we were and how well we played.

Still taking free kicks lol

I swear to God we miss David Beckham. I mean we miss Gazza but we always will. But God our delivery & free kicks have been woeful.

The more i see of Raheem Sterling the more convinced I am that Brendan Rodgers will comfortably lead Celtic to 10 in a row, how did he manage to get nearly £40 million for him? 

We simply ain't as good as we/the media think we are or would like us to think. None of these players would get into a good nations team. We have some reasonable players but no-one outstanding, no game changers.

Been completely indifferent towards England for years so this is water off a ducks back for me. Bring on August when the real stuff starts again.

Rashford has been our best player

Kane, one of best headers of ball is taking set pieces, all of them poor.

Sterling played poor all previous matches, Hodgson plays him.

Desperate for time and game changers, Hodgson makes an 86th min sub.

Sees Rashford can make a difference, doesn't play him.

Beats Wales, Hodgson makes 6 changes.

Comfortable against Russia, Hodgson makes changes, draw 1-1.

Bring back McLaren.

what a crock of shit.....another thing we voted ourselves out of.

Please Woy. Just go.

Dont make excuses. Just go.