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Poker Forums => Diaries and Blogs => Topic started by: Goosey82 on April 27, 2016, 03:12:12 PM



Title: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Goosey82 on April 27, 2016, 03:12:12 PM
Hey guys, been a member of this forum for about 6/7 years, always more of a lurker than a keen poster.  I do know alot of the older posters as I was an online pro for 8 years, regularly going to the live tourneys WSOP, CPC, Aussie Mills etc.

Anyway, I thought I would share my poker story with everyone and how I went from online pro to building a buy to let portfolio to setting up a letting agency.  I'm 31 now, live and work in Glasgow.  I started playing in 2007 online and in 2008 somehow luckboxed a seat to Jamie Gold Main Event in Vegas, I had never played live before then and I ended up coming 106th, Jeff Lisandro knocked me out, won $52k and came home cleared all my debt and stuck a chunk online for a "spin up" back in the good old days at Crypto playing  NL£100-£500 when win rates were huge. When Betfair moved to its own independent network I moved with them, continuing to play NL 6 max and camping out and HU tables which was the norm back then. Again I followed Betfair with its move to Ongame and played there as Goosey82, the games were tremendous and played up to $5/10 to $50/100 when there were some huge whales around ie YMERCH20 and JAndrew. Latterly Betfair moved to Ipoker I moved with them and have recently found myself playied £1/2 and some £2/4.  As everyone will know the games got alot tougher and I was struggling to maintain a decent winrate, despite putting in the hours so this time last year I decided to retire and pursue my other income stream which was property investing.

Throughout my poker career, I had always been a steady winner, I had some great days, some dreadful days but had 7 winning years in a row.  My investment strategy with my earning was to buy a 1-2 Buy to Let flats every year.  I always bought poorly conditioned properties, "flipped" them and then rented them out, back to poker, save another deposit buy another property and repeat.  7 years later, I had 14 Buy to Let properties in Glasgow, all cash flowing really well, offering significant ROI's and in areas I knew were popular with renters.   In the back of my mind when I finished playing this was the career that I was going to take up after I finished poker.  This time last year, I retired from poker, built a website, business cards etc and started up my own letting agency.  I already managed 3 properties for another UK based poker player who I was friends with from online and wanted me to do what I was doing for myself for him, so he bought 3, flipped them and rented them out under my management.  I also bought a flat with WellChief (whos been a pal of mine since long before poker and we came up playing the games together) and managed another one for him.  So I wasnt starting with no stock.  The first few months were about networking, getting my name out there, starting up a Facebook which drove quite a lot of business and since then I have been ticking away really well.  I set myself a target of two new managed properties per month and beat that comfortably, at the start of the year I moved into an office with an independent Estate Agent too, just 5 minutes from my house in the Southside of Glasgow.  Going forward, I am looking to continue to grow my own portfolio, grow my letting agency portfolio and starting to Buying to Flip.  I think there is loads of opportunities in Glasgow for me to do this so I am really just going to focus on the areas that I know.

Anyway, thanks for listening, thought it would be an interesting story to share, be happy to answer any questions if folk were interested, cheers Goosey/Billy545/Billy555/MGS84 or just Mark!


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: EvilPie on April 27, 2016, 03:54:14 PM
The buy to let market is something that I'm just moving in to myself having finally bought my first 12 full hours before the extra 3% stamp duty kicked in :)

The problem I have is that my local area isn't great on the roi front so I really need to look further afield for purchases and then obviously have someone like yourself manage it. Don't think I'd stray as far as Scotland though but I understand there's decent returns in the Manchester area which is only an hour from me.

How are the new tax rules going to affect you over the next few years? I assume it's a major kick in the teeth but at least you have a decent buffer before you hit the 40% bracket with your other income being from poker. I know for me it makes any house with a return of less than 5% pretty much pointless unless you can find a minimum 40% deposit. Saying that are you actually buying them cash so it doesn't matter?

Interesting stuff..... For me at least :D


 


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: AndrewT on April 27, 2016, 04:01:29 PM
YMERCH20 was incredible - players would block tables in the lobby every day just on the off chance he'd turn up.

When he did he used to play a table of $50/$100 whilst punting £10k on literally every horse race going off.


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Marky147 on April 27, 2016, 04:02:40 PM
You've lost 2 years there somewhere, because Jamie Gold's M/E was 2006.

I only know, because I played it, too :D

Always good to see people doing well, so congrats, and all the best with it all.


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Goosey82 on April 27, 2016, 04:29:53 PM
You've lost 2 years there somewhere, because Jamie Gold's M/E was 2006.

I only know, because I played it, too :D

Always good to see people doing well, so congrats, and all the best with it all.

Hahah yes you are right, crikey I am more of a dinosaur than I thought, started 2005 and played the Main Event 2006!


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Goosey82 on April 27, 2016, 04:32:47 PM
YMERCH20 was incredible - players would block tables in the lobby every day just on the off chance he'd turn up.

When he did he used to play a table of $50/$100 whilst punting £10k on literally every horse race going off.

Think on PTR YMERCH was down over $1mill plus. I am pretty certain it was a forward that used to play for Ipswich/Newcastle....(speculation).  But yeh he was an absolute whale, remember I was a $5/10 reg at the time and spun up $70,000 at $50/100 and he had me covered and I had direct position, I was absolutely bricking it, but he dusted it all off in about 20 mins.


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Goosey82 on April 27, 2016, 04:40:10 PM
The buy to let market is something that I'm just moving in to myself having finally bought my first 12 full hours before the extra 3% stamp duty kicked in :)

The problem I have is that my local area isn't great on the roi front so I really need to look further afield for purchases and then obviously have someone like yourself manage it. Don't think I'd stray as far as Scotland though but I understand there's decent returns in the Manchester area which is only an hour from me.

How are the new tax rules going to affect you over the next few years? I assume it's a major kick in the teeth but at least you have a decent buffer before you hit the 40% bracket with your other income being from poker. I know for me it makes any house with a return of less than 5% pretty much pointless unless you can find a minimum 40% deposit. Saying that are you actually buying them cash so it doesn't matter?

Interesting stuff..... For me at least :D


The stamp duty doesnt really affect me much for future investments, going forward most of the properties I am looking at are £70k-£100k, so the extra £2-£3k is just another expense I need to factor into my calculations.  The new tax rules are alot more concerning, but you are absolutely spot on, it doesnt really affect me at the moment as I am not a higher rate tax payer.  I own one in cash but all of my others have mortgages (using joint names with wife+ based off her salary) and they are Capital and Interest over 15-20years and I bought in a a good market so I am actually quite lowly geared, so again the tax changes wont have a great affect on me.  My advice to you would be to look for a minumum gross yield of 10%, which is available in Glasgow.  I am absolutely certain returns like that will be available in areas closer to you like Manchester, it is all about doing the research and homework on it.
 


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Marky147 on April 27, 2016, 04:41:21 PM
You've lost 2 years there somewhere, because Jamie Gold's M/E was 2006.

I only know, because I played it, too :D

Always good to see people doing well, so congrats, and all the best with it all.

Hahah yes you are right, crikey I am more of a dinosaur than I thought, started 2005 and played the Main Event 2006!

Doesn't seem like 10 years ago, that much I do know!

Good start to your diary anyway, and looking forward to following.


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: EvilPie on April 27, 2016, 05:36:30 PM
The buy to let market is something that I'm just moving in to myself having finally bought my first 12 full hours before the extra 3% stamp duty kicked in :)

The problem I have is that my local area isn't great on the roi front so I really need to look further afield for purchases and then obviously have someone like yourself manage it. Don't think I'd stray as far as Scotland though but I understand there's decent returns in the Manchester area which is only an hour from me.

How are the new tax rules going to affect you over the next few years? I assume it's a major kick in the teeth but at least you have a decent buffer before you hit the 40% bracket with your other income being from poker. I know for me it makes any house with a return of less than 5% pretty much pointless unless you can find a minimum 40% deposit. Saying that are you actually buying them cash so it doesn't matter?

Interesting stuff..... For me at least :D


The stamp duty doesnt really affect me much for future investments, going forward most of the properties I am looking at are £70k-£100k, so the extra £2-£3k is just another expense I need to factor into my calculations.  The new tax rules are alot more concerning, but you are absolutely spot on, it doesnt really affect me at the moment as I am not a higher rate tax payer.  I own one in cash but all of my others have mortgages (using joint names with wife+ based off her salary) and they are Capital and Interest over 15-20years and I bought in a a good market so I am actually quite lowly geared, so again the tax changes wont have a great affect on me.  My advice to you would be to look for a minumum gross yield of 10%, which is available in Glasgow.  I am absolutely certain returns like that will be available in areas closer to you like Manchester, it is all about doing the research and homework on it.
 

10%..... MBSFN!!

In Nottingham you're lucky to get 5% :( Maybe I should be looking in Scotland.....

My first one is actually pretty decent which is why I finally decided to take the plunge. I get £525 per month income and it cost me £100k so 6.3% gross. If I could get 10 more at that I'd be over the moon.

When the tax rules change though it's going to be a pig. Whilst my income stays at it's current level I'm going to be making nothing on the houses, just paying them off steadily over 15 years or so probably having to use some of my normal earnings to help chip away at the mortgages. I just have to remember that it's bad now but when I retire, all the mortgages are paid off and my rental income is over £5k per month it's actually an amazing pension.

Sounds like you've got it all sorted. Brilliant stuff and encouraging for me as a new starter in the game.


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Goosey82 on April 27, 2016, 06:09:04 PM
Yeh gross yields are really high in Glasgow. 3 unis, 16 colleges push the demand through the roof. Latest one I did for a landlord was bought for £55,000 we had 20 enquiries on it and 4 applications from first 5 viewers at £500pcm. Gross on that is roughly 11% and clearly could of squeezed more out of it! Net yield will be significantly lower after management,factors fees, maintenance,compliance with legislation though but still over the course of investment will provide an excellent return.


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: arbboy on April 27, 2016, 06:16:53 PM
Amazing story.  You ever play stts on betfair over the years?  Just cash?  I played identical years as you on all the betfair sites but was the stt rake machine and never played cash.  Assume you were the total opposite?

Not worried about interest rates rising/house prices correcting?  Assume this is a huge part of your net worth.


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Doobs on April 27, 2016, 06:22:49 PM
Goosey and Well Chief were very much 2 of the better 2.5/5, 5/10 6 max players back in the day.  Wish I'd realised who Well Chief was when he was running deep in the WSOP. 

My favourite player back then was Tattoo.  I won twice as much from him than I did from anyone else.  I don't think I ever played ymerch.  Must have moved on to MTTS by then?  I did have one nemesis back then.  I can't remember his name, but he was Italian and just ran golden against me.  Never missed a river.  My poker tracker had him losing tens of thousands vs everyone else at the table, but he was well up vs me when he disappeared. 

Good luck to you


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: celtic on April 27, 2016, 06:28:03 PM
Should be interesting.

I'll get the important questions out the way.

Celtic or Rangers?

What do you have at nandos?


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: celtic on April 27, 2016, 06:36:39 PM
Also, I've moved it to the diary board.


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Goosey82 on April 27, 2016, 07:01:21 PM
Amazing story.  You ever play stts on betfair over the years?  Just cash?  I played identical years as you on all the betfair sites but was the stt rake machine and never played cash.  Assume you were the total opposite?

Not worried about interest rates rising/house prices correcting?  Assume this is a huge part of your net worth.

Thanks mate, never played any Stts unless I saw the Donk Roma sitting there waiting! I remember you always would win the points race along with Lee (can't remember screenname).

My portfolio is stress tested at 6% interest rates to still be positively cash flowing while paying the capital back. I guess if it goes any higher than that we are all in bother. As for house prices I am not too concerned as my investments are all made for long term over the course of rest of my life, fundamentally I believe house prices double every 15 years so I plan to ride out any short term variance!


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Goosey82 on April 27, 2016, 07:02:28 PM
Should be interesting.

I'll get the important questions out the way.

Celtic or Rangers?

What do you have at nandos?

Sorry mate I was at the game and very happy with result! Like a hot half chicken and chip 😌


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Goosey82 on April 27, 2016, 07:06:35 PM
Goosey and Well Chief were very much 2 of the better 2.5/5, 5/10 6 max players back in the day.  Wish I'd realised who Well Chief was when he was running deep in the WSOP. 

My favourite player back then was Tattoo.  I won twice as much from him than I did from anyone else.  I don't think I ever played ymerch.  Must have moved on to MTTS by then?  I did have one nemesis back then.  I can't remember his name, but he was Italian and just ran golden against me.  Never missed a river.  My poker tracker had him losing tens of thousands vs everyone else at the table, but he was well up vs me when he disappeared. 

Good luck to you


Thanks Doobs, I remember you too played loads together you still play? I actually met Tatooo at Ayr races he is a bookie and he cleaned me out for once that day. Player you thinking of GUIDOCH OR Roma?

Wellchief was always better than me, played higher too, we never sat at same tables as good pals. His main event run this year was so sick, if I was still playing I would of defo had a piece hahah!


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: celtic on April 27, 2016, 10:18:52 PM
Unsubscribed :(


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Karabiner on April 28, 2016, 12:23:25 AM
Unsubscribed :(

Not a Whitehill Welfare fan then?


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: arbboy on April 28, 2016, 01:48:11 AM
Goosey and Well Chief were very much 2 of the better 2.5/5, 5/10 6 max players back in the day.  Wish I'd realised who Well Chief was when he was running deep in the WSOP. 

My favourite player back then was Tattoo.  I won twice as much from him than I did from anyone else.  I don't think I ever played ymerch.  Must have moved on to MTTS by then?  I did have one nemesis back then.  I can't remember his name, but he was Italian and just ran golden against me.  Never missed a river.  My poker tracker had him losing tens of thousands vs everyone else at the table, but he was well up vs me when he disappeared. 

Good luck to you


Thanks Doobs, I remember you too played loads together you still play? I actually met Tatooo at Ayr races he is a bookie and he cleaned me out for once that day. Player you thinking of GUIDOCH OR Roma?

Wellchief was always better than me, played higher too, we never sat at same tables as good pals. His main event run this year was so sick, if I was still playing I would of defo had a piece hahah!

What was his bookie name just out of interest at Ayr?  I have just spent a weekend in Scotland ironing out on course bookies (at Ayr and other courses) and would love to know his bookie name in the betting ring if you can remember it.  There are some proper old school donk bookies at Scottish tracks still pretending they have an edge when they don't like most winning poker players from 10 years still do.


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: pleno1 on April 28, 2016, 12:34:14 PM
I just wrote a business plan for a letting agency company, will link it in here once it's fully done and see what you think.

Subscribed!


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Whollyflush on April 28, 2016, 03:42:35 PM
Quite interesting in following this as i try to branch out into other revenue streams aswell. As someone who is potentially looking into getting a buy to let it seems tricky if you are a poker player. I have bought my own flat outright with no mortgage, but as far as I'm aware I'm unable to get a mortgage even if i put say a 40% deposit down on a buy to let. Am i right in thinking this? if so is there anyway around it?


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Doobs on April 28, 2016, 04:19:56 PM
Goosey and Well Chief were very much 2 of the better 2.5/5, 5/10 6 max players back in the day.  Wish I'd realised who Well Chief was when he was running deep in the WSOP. 

My favourite player back then was Tattoo.  I won twice as much from him than I did from anyone else.  I don't think I ever played ymerch.  Must have moved on to MTTS by then?  I did have one nemesis back then.  I can't remember his name, but he was Italian and just ran golden against me.  Never missed a river.  My poker tracker had him losing tens of thousands vs everyone else at the table, but he was well up vs me when he disappeared. 

Good luck to you


Thanks Doobs, I remember you too played loads together you still play? I actually met Tatooo at Ayr races he is a bookie and he cleaned me out for once that day. Player you thinking of GUIDOCH OR Roma?

Wellchief was always better than me, played higher too, we never sat at same tables as good pals. His main event run this year was so sick, if I was still playing I would of defo had a piece hahah!

I am pretty sure I was up against GUIDOCH.  I think it was kamikaze who kept beating me.  He used to break the rule where you should always assume the opposite applies for a player name.  He'd check shove for 4 x the pot wth 3rd pair vs everyone else and always seemed to have a set when he did it vs me; and even when he didn't he'd have it by the river.  I'd think he was an evil genius if he didn't consistently spew vs everyone else.

I more or less quit cash when Betfair moved to Ongame.  I was a better full ring player than 6 max, and 6 max had become way more popular.  Even though I was up at 6 max, I felt I was often clicking buttons and was never as comfortable.  I asked for the formula for the essence system and never got an answer, and guess that was the end of it.  I moved back to MTTs and had quite a bit of success, so never went back to cash.  It was probably a big mistake.

I play a lot more plo8/nlo8 than hold em now.  I prefer the game and even play the odd bit of cash.  I don't really enjoy hold em anymore and am not even sure I am profitable at it on the likes of Stars.  I'd much rather to be relying on work for money now, as even when I win I am not really making enough anymore.  Still doesn't stop me playing too much/too big.  I will be in Vegas again this summer, but very much going for the 1.5k and 3k plo8 tournaments.  Any hold em I play will be smaller.  I am not sure how many trips to vegas I have left. I have thought about going for the Seniors which comes soon and maybe when the kids get older, I'll play the main again for old times sake.

Evil PIe, did you really mean you were going to get £5k a month from your buy to let at retirement.  It seems very optimistic.




Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: celtic on April 28, 2016, 06:23:52 PM
Think he meant multi properties bring in 5k+ once he has retired and all the mortgages are clear.


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Goosey82 on April 28, 2016, 10:47:09 PM
Quite interesting in following this as i try to branch out into other revenue streams aswell. As someone who is potentially looking into getting a buy to let it seems tricky if you are a poker player. I have bought my own flat outright with no mortgage, but as far as I'm aware I'm unable to get a mortgage even if i put say a 40% deposit down on a buy to let. Am i right in thinking this? if so is there anyway around it?

Yes, you won't get a BTL mortgage as a poker player no matter what the size of your deposit. All of my houses are in a joint name with my wife who has a job so the in affordability is based off her earnings. It wasn't always like this my first ever mortgage I was able to self certify my earnings as a pro poker player! Lending criteria has changed a lot since then. hope this helps.


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Goosey82 on April 28, 2016, 10:49:04 PM
I just wrote a business plan for a letting agency company, will link it in here once it's fully done and see what you think.

Subscribed!

Interesting Pleno....what's your background? Do you have experience in property? I take it you are full time poker player?


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Goosey82 on April 28, 2016, 10:50:10 PM
Arboy- name was Bert Logan


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Whollyflush on April 29, 2016, 01:05:23 AM
Quite interesting in following this as i try to branch out into other revenue streams aswell. As someone who is potentially looking into getting a buy to let it seems tricky if you are a poker player. I have bought my own flat outright with no mortgage, but as far as I'm aware I'm unable to get a mortgage even if i put say a 40% deposit down on a buy to let. Am i right in thinking this? if so is there anyway around it?

Yes, you won't get a BTL mortgage as a poker player no matter what the size of your deposit. All of my houses are in a joint name with my wife who has a job so the in affordability is based off her earnings. It wasn't always like this my first ever mortgage I was able to self certify my earnings as a pro poker player! Lending criteria has changed a lot since then. hope this helps.

yeh this all makes sense unfortunately, thank you


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: pleno1 on April 29, 2016, 02:14:32 AM
I just wrote a business plan for a letting agency company, will link it in here once it's fully done and see what you think.

Subscribed!

Interesting Pleno....what's your background? Do you have experience in property? I take it you are full time poker player?

Hey buddy, I actually just posted it on my blog (also in this section) if you get time would be cool to get some feedback.

Yes I was a full time poker player, trying to delve more into entrepreneurship as of late though. I live in Budapest (where the business would be located)


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Goosey82 on April 29, 2016, 04:39:16 PM

[/quote]

Hey buddy, I actually just posted it on my blog (also in this section) if you get time would be cool to get some feedback.

Yes I was a full time poker player, trying to delve more into entrepreneurship as of late though. I live in Budapest (where the business would be located)
[/quote]

Hi Pleno, I had a good read of your business plan. Congrats to you for thinking about it and I hope it works for you.  It certainly is an interesting concept.  My thoughts/advice would be to take it slow, instead of hiring staff and an office start it from your home office and keep the costs and expenses down, this way your overheads are basically 0 and you can go out and do all the networking/meetings/show anyone who will listen your business plan and service you will offer.  As long as you manage the properties well for your clients they dont care how big you are or how flashy your office is.  In fact most landlords actually prefer just having one person to speak to directly and is accountable for them.  After you start to builld you portfolio then you add staff.  I dont want to be negative either but 1 property per week to take on seems really high to me for a start up company.  I know letting agents in Glasgow with 1000s of managed flats are targeted on 1 property per week.

Hope this helps...........Go get it!


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Goosey82 on May 06, 2016, 04:48:31 PM
Solid enough week, two new landlords and listings (you can see them on Shanta Letting Facebook page) both in popular areas, imagine they will rent out very quickly.  Also had meeting today with some property acquisition and sales company who have acquired a few large portfolios and looking to sell on individually, hopefully source one or two for next investment or for the landlords who are looking to buy.


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Goosey82 on May 10, 2016, 10:52:24 AM
I recently did an interview for a podcast with Mike Michael Stenhouse over at Inside Property Investing and it has been released if anyone is interested in listening. Its about how I got started in property, what I am up to now and where I am looking to go.

You can download it on Itunes searching "Inside Property Investing 115" or http://www.insidepropertyinvesting.com/markshanta/


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: TimothyVanwinkle on May 26, 2016, 01:48:25 PM
The mass buy to let boom has turned decent residential areas into slums.


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: EvilPie on May 26, 2016, 02:47:08 PM
The mass buy to let boom has turned decent residential areas into slums.

Don't know about slums but it certainly has an effect. The area that I live in has lot's of 2/3 bed semi detached houses that seem to get snapped up by landlords as soon as they come on the market. They aren't cheap at £160k to £200k and the yields aren't great either at £550 - £800 pcm but still they keep buying them meaning that owner/occupiers don't get a look in.

The tenanted houses stand out a mile from the owner/occupier ones. You just have to look at the gardens to tell that whoever lives there doesn't give a shit.

I don't think estate agents help the situation to be honest. My sister recently sold her house and had quite a few offers. She was offered £200k cash from a buy to let investor and also £205k from an owner/occupier but they had to get a mortgage. The estate agent advised my sister to go with the cash buyer even though it was less money because the sale was more likely to go through.

How can that be fair? They aren't giving the people a chance even when they offer more.

Is it the estate agents fault though? What about the mortgage companies who delay the process so much that it makes cash buyers infinitely more preferable? Is it the affordability rules that mean people apparently can't afford £800/month mortgage so they have to pay £1k/month rent instead? Is it the ridiculous chains that develop when multiple people are reliant on each other to move and any one of them could pull out at the last minute ruining it all whereas the BTL guy can stop that chain?

What I'm saying is that buy-to-let doesn't help residential areas but it's not necessarily the fault of the buy-to-let boom but more so the fault of whatever has made BTL so popular/profitable in the first place.



Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: PokerBroker on May 30, 2016, 12:30:59 AM
Affordability isn't a major issue for BTL.  The loan is generally based on the rental income.  There are a few lenders who don't need evidence of a regular income to allow you to borrow. 


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: SuuPRlim on May 30, 2016, 12:22:31 PM
can't believe i missed this really really interesting, defo post some more.

I've worked on a fair few decent commercial property deals and this has also really interested me, this never something you look at?


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Goosey82 on May 31, 2016, 03:48:31 PM
Affordability isn't a major issue for BTL.  The loan is generally based on the rental income.  There are a few lenders who don't need evidence of a regular income to allow you to borrow. 

Spot on with what you are saying. As far as I am aware for major lenders the minimum income for a BTL mortgage is £25,000.  Another bit of lending criteria is that you allude to is the rental income being 125% more that the mortgage repayments (which it should be if you are buying a decent yielding property), there is discussion that this figure may be rising to 140%.


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Goosey82 on May 31, 2016, 03:56:36 PM
can't believe i missed this really really interesting, defo post some more.

I've worked on a fair few decent commercial property deals and this has also really interested me, this never something you look at?

Thanks for feedback, appreciate it. Whats your experience in property?

Funny you should mention commercial property deals.  I am hoping this will be my next property purchase in the form of a shop for my letting agency.  At the moment I essentially rent a desk from an independent estate agent, which is terrific because it keeps my costs down, we can pass referrals to each other and advice.  However, the downside for me is no branding on the office, so I dont get any walk in customers.  At the moment as I am growly at a nice steady rate I am OK with that, but I plan to expand and keep growing the business so I will eventually want the right commercial property.  I am actively viewing, and while not being ready to move just yet, if the right one came along I would buy it.  I see it as a low risk investment as I will be paying the rent to myself!

Last month was really busy for the letting agency, took on 5 new landlords and 4 out the 5 of the properties are reserved/let out already.  The last one I just listed last week and think it may stick for a while at the price the landlord is hoping to achieve for it.


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: EvilPie on May 31, 2016, 04:06:25 PM
Affordability isn't a major issue for BTL.  The loan is generally based on the rental income.  There are a few lenders who don't need evidence of a regular income to allow you to borrow. 

Spot on with what you are saying. As far as I am aware for major lenders the minimum income for a BTL mortgage is £25,000.  Another bit of lending criteria is that you allude to is the rental income being 125% more that the mortgage repayments (which it should be if you are buying a decent yielding property), there is discussion that this figure may be rising to 140%.

Pretty sure it's 125% of the interest rather than the actual repayment. Once you have one though if it's in profit you can use that amount to evidence affordability for your next one without taking the rate rise stress test in to account. Handy eh :)

All lenders have minimum income levels now before they'll even talk to you so it's going to be very difficult for poker players who can't evidence anything. It's going to get regulated soon as well whereby they'll look at income after expenses rather than the current ridiculous system where they just say your rental figure has to be 125% of your rent. Once you take agents fees, insurance maintenance and of course the tax man's cut there isn't anywhere near as much left.



Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: PokerBroker on June 01, 2016, 12:47:23 AM
It's 125% of monthly payment.  Generally stressed at around 5%.

Although two big players in BTL sector recently went 145%.  So won't be long till they all fall into line it's basically self policing.  There are still 2 lenders for definite that will give you a BTL mortgage without you having to provide income proofs.

The difficulty poker players face is getting past the AML checks and showing where the money become they have came from. 

I am dealing with a case just now we're my client has £860k equity looking for an interest only loan of £266k can't place it anywhere.  So frustrating, finally thought I had managed it based on figures I took off him when I seen his payslips things took a turn for the worse.  Still affordable but no longer meets criteria.


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: EvilPie on June 01, 2016, 09:13:04 AM
It's 125% of monthly payment.  Generally stressed at around 5%.

Although two big players in BTL sector recently went 145%.  So won't be long till they all fall into line it's basically self policing.  There are still 2 lenders for definite that will give you a BTL mortgage without you having to provide income proofs.

The difficulty poker players face is getting past the AML checks and showing where the money become they have came from. 

I am dealing with a case just now we're my client has £860k equity looking for an interest only loan of £266k can't place it anywhere.  So frustrating, finally thought I had managed it based on figures I took off him when I seen his payslips things took a turn for the worse.  Still affordable but no longer meets criteria.

Well mine isn't but I'll leave it with you.


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: SuuPRlim on June 02, 2016, 10:06:21 PM
can't believe i missed this really really interesting, defo post some more.

I've worked on a fair few decent commercial property deals and this has also really interested me, this never something you look at?

Thanks for feedback, appreciate it. Whats your experience in property?

Funny you should mention commercial property deals.  I am hoping this will be my next property purchase in the form of a shop for my letting agency.  At the moment I essentially rent a desk from an independent estate agent, which is terrific because it keeps my costs down, we can pass referrals to each other and advice.  However, the downside for me is no branding on the office, so I dont get any walk in customers.  At the moment as I am growly at a nice steady rate I am OK with that, but I plan to expand and keep growing the business so I will eventually want the right commercial property.  I am actively viewing, and while not being ready to move just yet, if the right one came along I would buy it.  I see it as a low risk investment as I will be paying the rent to myself!

Last month was really busy for the letting agency, took on 5 new landlords and 4 out the 5 of the properties are reserved/let out already.  The last one I just listed last week and think it may stick for a while at the price the landlord is hoping to achieve for it.

I have close to 0 experience in property, I'm just an opportunist. The deals I did were with leisure industry business + freehold deals, sometimes spots came up with my network where I was able to place an operator wanting to buy a business but couldn't fund the freehold purchase with an investor looking to buy commercial property, and the investment is a whole lot more attractive when you have a tenant with successful track record ready to sign a 20yr lease.

My brief exposure to commercial property has left me very interested in it and looking to get more involved as my finances allow.

I'd love to get involved in stuff like that again.


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Mark_Porter on June 02, 2016, 10:56:59 PM
Glad I stumbled on this gem, very interesting. Keep posting.


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: vegaslover on June 02, 2016, 11:03:51 PM
It's 125% of monthly payment.  Generally stressed at around 5%.

Although two big players in BTL sector recently went 145%.  So won't be long till they all fall into line it's basically self policing.  There are still 2 lenders for definite that will give you a BTL mortgage without you having to provide income proofs.

The difficulty poker players face is getting past the AML checks and showing where the money become they have came from. 

I am dealing with a case just now we're my client has £860k equity looking for an interest only loan of £266k can't place it anywhere.  So frustrating, finally thought I had managed it based on figures I took off him when I seen his payslips things took a turn for the worse.  Still affordable but no longer meets criteria.

Well mine isn't but I'll leave it with you.


My BTL mortgages are also done on 125% of what the interest payments would be.
Lenders are getting ridic tight on regulations though. Asking for min incomes and going through your bank statements/spending even though your rental income pisses the min requirements.


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: PokerBroker on June 07, 2016, 12:56:43 AM
It's 125% of monthly payment.  Generally stressed at around 5%.

Although two big players in BTL sector recently went 145%.  So won't be long till they all fall into line it's basically self policing.  There are still 2 lenders for definite that will give you a BTL mortgage without you having to provide income proofs.

The difficulty poker players face is getting past the AML checks and showing where the money become they have came from. 

I am dealing with a case just now we're my client has £860k equity looking for an interest only loan of £266k can't place it anywhere.  So frustrating, finally thought I had managed it based on figures I took off him when I seen his payslips things took a turn for the worse.  Still affordable but no longer meets criteria.

Well mine isn't but I'll leave it with you.


My BTL mortgages are also done on 125% of what the interest payments would be.
Lenders are getting ridic tight on regulations though. Asking for min incomes and going through your bank statements/spending even though your rental income pisses the min requirements.

What if you go through a period of no rental income?  I'm not saying I agree with lenders but I understand the reasoning.  Too many people take out BTL mortgages with bad advice because tehir situation hasn't be assessed properly. 


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Goosey82 on June 07, 2016, 07:07:06 PM
It's 125% of monthly payment.  Generally stressed at around 5%.

Although two big players in BTL sector recently went 145%.  So won't be long till they all fall into line it's basically self policing.  There are still 2 lenders for definite that will give you a BTL mortgage without you having to provide income proofs.

The difficulty poker players face is getting past the AML checks and showing where the money become they have came from. 

I am dealing with a case just now we're my client has £860k equity looking for an interest only loan of £266k can't place it anywhere.  So frustrating, finally thought I had managed it based on figures I took off him when I seen his payslips things took a turn for the worse.  Still affordable but no longer meets criteria.

Well mine isn't but I'll leave it with you.


My BTL mortgages are also done on 125% of what the interest payments would be.
Lenders are getting ridic tight on regulations though. Asking for min incomes and going through your bank statements/spending even though your rental income pisses the min requirements.

What if you go through a period of no rental income?  I'm not saying I agree with lenders but I understand the reasoning.  Too many people take out BTL mortgages with bad advice because tehir situation hasn't be assessed properly. 


I agree with lenders on this one too.  They were far too relaxed with their BTL lending criteria in the first place which contributed to alot of investors being in negative equity and led to repossessions.  The first every property I bought was for £100,000, I used a 5% deposit and self certified my mortgage by saying I was a professional sportsperson earning £120,000 a year! How things have changed.

Personally, the proposed changes from 125% of the mortgage payment to 140% won't affect me, the properties I have bought, looking to buy and suggesting to investors are all high yielding so the rental payments more than cover the proposed mortgage.  Interestingly enough, I was asked to write a rental valuation last week to Yorkshire Building Society for one of the landlords who was looking to purchase new property.


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: Goosey82 on June 07, 2016, 07:10:48 PM
So this week has started well, took on a new property in West Lothian (basically between Glasgow and Edinburgh). It is about 25 miles from my office and right on the boundary of how far I would be willing to manage, but its for an existing landlord and he's a good one. Also been looking into new software for managing the portfolio and did my first ever newsletter through Mailchimp, looking to keep these monthly, if anyone interested pop me a PM and il add to Mailing List.


Title: Re: Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency
Post by: EvilPie on June 08, 2016, 07:49:13 PM
It's 125% of monthly payment.  Generally stressed at around 5%.

Although two big players in BTL sector recently went 145%.  So won't be long till they all fall into line it's basically self policing.  There are still 2 lenders for definite that will give you a BTL mortgage without you having to provide income proofs.

The difficulty poker players face is getting past the AML checks and showing where the money become they have came from. 

I am dealing with a case just now we're my client has £860k equity looking for an interest only loan of £266k can't place it anywhere.  So frustrating, finally thought I had managed it based on figures I took off him when I seen his payslips things took a turn for the worse.  Still affordable but no longer meets criteria.

Well mine isn't but I'll leave it with you.


My BTL mortgages are also done on 125% of what the interest payments would be.
Lenders are getting ridic tight on regulations though. Asking for min incomes and going through your bank statements/spending even though your rental income pisses the min requirements.

What if you go through a period of no rental income?  I'm not saying I agree with lenders but I understand the reasoning.  Too many people take out BTL mortgages with bad advice because tehir situation hasn't be assessed properly. 

We weren't talking about what was sensible we were talking about what you can get your hands on.

Agree though there are lots of people who over stretch themselves often with the help of poor advice. I dread to think what's going to happen to highly leveraged BTL investors when the tax rules change. A lot of them will be screwed.