blonde poker forum

I've been having this dilemma for a few years but find very little info on it. So for those of you who are dependent on poker winnings and nothing else, you don't claim welfare or anything, when applying for things like say bank accounts or even just car insurance, what do you state as your income? For my car insurance I put self employed then from the list of occupations to choose from I settled on financial analyst in financial services  rotflmfao pretty sure they can't void your car insurance in a smash finding out your income is totally different. Different stroy with banks though they want to know the company name you work for...?

I just say unemployed, makes it easier and no follow up questions.

You'd be surprised what they'll void your car insurance for... I can't remember ever lying about it, and just used to call up when I didn't see poker player on the list?

Been working since 2009, and been with bank since well before that. Not sure if they're much more tricky about it now, or if you're possibly setting yourself up for unnecessary agg.

Well I just searched for my credit score on both noddle and clearscore and despite giving my last two addresses which span 5yrs total plus my debit card details they can't find a trace of me  :D

Saying unemployed always has follow up questions namely what is your income?

'Unemployed' will see you pay more as opposed to one of the boring 'safe' jobs out there, like office administrator or something.

If you have a major accident you are definitely getting your insurance voided for stating 'financial analyst' when your actually play the pokerz.

Self employed private equity investment fund manager.  You are not lying when you say this.  I manage my own private equity (my bankroll) in a controlled investment fund (ie punting across various betting mediums/outlets).  Just because your form of income is not subject to income tax why does this make this title any more right/wrong than a city guy who does the same sitting at home buying and selling shares?  It doesn't.

If you don't like the idea of that i much prefer retired to unemployed.  I am technically retired as i haven't had a job or any form of taxable income for nearly 10 years.  I just rely on being 'lucky' punting every day to get by.

When i meet strangers or friends of friends on nights out now i tend to say this because it usually sounds really boring and stops all the usual dull questions randoms ask you if you tell them the truth.  It also makes people in your company who know what you do chuckle a bit!

 rotflmfao ^^.


Really? So anyone who changes jobs at any point in their life and doesn't inform their current car insurance company immediately can have any claims voided? Christ! Well financial analyst isn't strictly a lie anyway and the categories I chose are the closest it gets to poker from what is on offer. You don't get to type in your own words, it's multiple choice on confused.com at least. Also, I've made insaurance claims before and not once have they asked for my proof of employment, or even proof of drivers licence!!

If you end up on the wrong side of a 6 or 7 figure third party claim the insurance company are going to go through your proposal answers with a very fine tooth comb.

How much were those claims for? It's only when it becomes worth it to them that they'll delve a bit deeper and look to get out of it. At a certain level they pay loss adjustors whose sole purpose is to reduce the pay out. If you've lied on your application they'll be loving it.

Forgetting to tell them that you've changed job is a lot different to out and out lying about what you do. Think I'd rather just say unemployed than take the risk. It might cost a bit more in premiums but that's the price you pay for having a job that doesn't require you to pay any taxes.

If you've coached anyone just go with Teacher

I've never seen the forms mention anything about having to work in a school

Might use Retired from now on though

Same as arb, I normally go with retired. Not bad in yours 30s. Or journalist on some forms.

Am i lying saying i am a 'self employed private equity investment fund manager'? just because legally the private equity investment fund i run doesn't require me to pay income/corporation tax and/or have a limited company/partnership legally set up to trade in and i don't wear a pin strip suit and cufflinks to do it?

I have no idea but fortunately I'm not the one having to interpret how you choose to describe playing poker and gambling.

It's a tricky one that's for sure but your description seems like one that could be justified if they pushed you that's for sure.

Private equity investment is investment in private companies - do you invest in private companies?

Spoken like a true loss adjuster.....

Well Arb? What's your response?

We're not trying to be awkward f**ks here by the way. Hopefully you have all the answers then you know you don't have to worry.

No i don't.  My equity is private though (all mine) and i manage how it is invested.  Maybe i need to change the title slightly.  Private fund investment manager would work!

Author, no ?

I had a £7k claim for whiplash made against me when I nudged someone up the rear at literally 1mph didn't even crack his bumper, and I knew absolutely zero about it until 18 months later when I got a new insurance quote and was told I'd failed to declare a claim made against me and would be charged accordingly. Shortly after they received a prompt "GFY u aint getting jack" I phoned my previous  broker then underwriter asking why I knew nothing about this. After I said to them the guy is blatantly lying you need to inform the police for insurance fraud his response was merely "no point mate, we get false claims for whiplash everyday and just pay them out no argument"!!!

There will be an anti fraud department or similar at every insurance company.  They should be happy to hear from you.   Probably best not to tell them to go fuck themselves if you would like a positive result.  Who is this "underwriter"?   Having worked at a few insurers over the years and anti fraud training is pretty standard, so nobody at an insurer should give you that speech.   Of course, some brokers aren't going to care too much about insurers claim figures, but insurers definitely do.  Given you knew nothing of this claim, then your broker doesn't sound that great already.

On the other point, I don't see the point in lying to insurers.  There isn't a correct answer.  I'd say that much of the time you aren't getting found out, but as others say, some claims are going to get looked at more closely.  Good luck with private equity manager when you leave somebody with permanent brain damage. 

I think I have Stocktrader or similar on my policy. I have a share portfolio in my name, with shares in 20-30 companies at any one time. I make trades every so often. Think that would hold up if it came down to it?

Disappointed that no-one seems to be working in shipping any more.

Depends. If a loss adjuster Google's your name do you think they'll agree, and more importantly the judge? An interesting EV call for sure, lifetime reduced premiums vs the chance of being successfully sued for 7 figs.

Does Sam Tricket insure his car as a Gas Fitter?

All these convoluted attempts at showing a 'respectable' job have the potential to come back and bite you if there is a significant claim.

I doubt it because he isn't a gas fitter anymore.  I am a private fund investment manager which is why i say i am.  Do Subway workers insure their car as a 'Sandwich artist' or whatever stupid title they are given?

He's prob not trying to save £40 on his annual insurance quote either.

He really should say he is retired because no one could argue he isn't given his results and the difference on his insurance premium for his car to being retired to being a pro poker player on his insurance would be massive at his age i would imagine.

I don't understand what the problem is with saying retired (?)

Housewife/husband?

A fair few pro gamblers/poker players should just say 'unemployable'.  Would be a lot more accurate.

Good idea but most people in this thread are probably not married so would be a lie i suppose.  Maybe similar to retiring in your 30s and not having a pension!

You don't need to be able to justify your job title to yourself, you need to be able to show to an insurer/ombudsman/judge that you have not deliberately misled your insurer.  You must know you are sailing close to the wind?  You must realise there is a reasonable chance somebody far removed from the way you earn a living is going to look at it very differently than you do.  

FWIW Investing in shares on the side and trading in them isn't going to cut itt as investment management either.  

I think my test would be do you earn reasonable external income from what you do?  This would be OK even if it wasn't the biggest source of income, just so long as it was significant.  So if you had a few properties, it would be reasonable to call yourself a landlord rather than a poker player.  

OK just an idea folks, but I am self-employed and registered as such with HMRC (and I pay only £2.50 per week to get my full NI stamp).  I only work part-time and I do admin, accounts and marketing for a couple of small business owners and I work approx 10-15 hours per week on this from home.  So my insurer is told I am self employed, which is true.  However it wouldn't be too difficult to get a group of poker players together, who then set themselves up with HMRC as self-employed and invoice each other for work completed?!  Doesn't have to be admin.  Could be cleaning, gardening, driving etc.  Just a thought. 

Most general insurers won't cover professional gamblers/bookmakers under standard terms the sameway most life assurance companies won't offer standard cover for someone who regularly participates in dangerous pursuits.  

You can put retired because technically that is the correct answer, but if it comes to light that your car has been maliciously damaged as a result of some form of show boating or 6 bet shoving over some gangster type with 63o then you're not getting paid out.  

It does amuse me Arb that as someone who likes to have a pop at the "chavs" and the others less fortunate that you are verging on insurance fraud.  

It all comes down to is the information you are providing to the insurer in good faith is it information you think they should know about.  

I'd also state there was a difference between online poker player and live player.  

If in doubt speak to the insurance company/broker and let them advise and ask that it is clearly noted that you have made every effort to fully disclose all material facts.  

Glad i still amuse you KMAC always good to know i am doing my job.

For Car insurance I go with independent Means

 :D

I converted a car to a camper but I didn't change anything to do with the structural integrity, suspension, running gear, safety equipment etc. When my insurance asked if there had been any modifications I asked what they classed as modification and was told "Absolutely anything".

So I asked if removing the seats and adding furniture counted. "Yes" (fair enough)

Tinted windows, "Yes"

What if I changed the radio for a better one? "Yes"

Different wiper blades? "Yes"

So I have to tell you if I change my wiper blades? "Yes".

They don't make it easy to be absolutely honest with them. The harder you try the harder it gets.

Nice. We've now gone from insurance fraud to full on tax fraud.

Where will it end?

How is it tax fraud?  I work for 2 people who own small businesses on a freelance basis, therefore I am classed as self-employed.  I haven't suggested anyone commits tax fraud.  If people have certain skills and can do work for each other, they can quite legitimately invoice each other for the work carried out.  They likely wouldn't earn more than the personal tax allowance in any given year, so there is no tax to pay anyway.  No tax fraud here.

It is an extremely grey area.  Gambling in the UK isn't a trade, profession or vocation so you could argue that unemployed/retired is the correct answer (while providing the additional information that you make some money playing cards/sports betting).

As several have said, if you give them a chance to void the policy they will do it and omitting information that they will claim affects the premium is an open goal.

My wifes car got stolen 5 years ago and the game we had with the insurance company was ridiculous. They were trying their level best not to pay just because my wife works one day in one location and 2 days in another. She put on her policy that she uses the car to commute to work. They tried to say she was using the car for business purposes. The car was actually stolen from home.

It took 4 months to get paid out and this was for only 18k.

At my last renewal I rang my existing insurer and told them that I was now self-employed and although I worked from home, I occasionally had to travel to my client's business addresses to collect paperwork etc.  They amended my policy from Social, Domestic & Pleasure (inc commuting) to Social, Domestic, Pleasure and Business.  I was expecting the price to go up, however it stayed exactly the same.

Well yeah if they actually do the work of course it's fine.

Sounded to me like you were suggesting they set up a (fake) company purely for the purpose of submitting (fake) invoices to each other so that they could claim they had a job. You also suggested registering the company with HMRC (the tax people).

I'm not saying anybody is ever going to find out because they're not but to do one slightly iffy thing to make something else a bit iffy seem less iffy doesn't really solve the problem it just moves it.

If you're self-employed and only work part-time (as I do) there is no point setting up a company. You simply ring HMRC and tell them you are self-employed.  They will ask you when you started your self-employment and the nature of your business.  You could be a driver, a cleaner, a consultant, a driver, a personal trainer, a life coach and you only have to work part time in order to be classed as self-employed.  You don't need a company to be self-employed.  You are effectively a sole trader.  There's nothing fake about it.  You then provide services to your clients, send them an invoice and receive payment.  You can then pay £2.80 per week Class 2 NI to get your stamp and you can tell your bank and your insurance companies that you are self-employed.  The only down side is that you will have to do a self assessment tax return each year. 

I'm not saying it would be right for everyone but it's something to think about perhaps for some people on here.

#selfsupported

Surely you now qualify as a restaurant owner?

the official answer is 'retired' if you are not paying income tax or NI contributions. I spoke to the tax office about this 10 years ago or so and that is what they told me to put on forms and insurance documents etc.

the problem with getting smart about making up your own job title is that insurance companies will just wriggle out of claims if you can't prove you are actually 'employed' in a job with that title (i.e through a company that can provide proof or evidence by way of a contract of employment or letter.

You might get away with self employed but usually that means you would need to do a tax return and declare what you are self employed as.

sorry if this has been covered - i didnt read the whole thread.

Any idea if this is still the case if you do pay NI? In fact can I put 'retired' on my voluntary contributions form? Plan to start paying when I move back to the UK.

Dont know. I only stopped paying them for a couple of years. If you plan or expect to be pokering for a long period of time then certainly worth ringing them and asking them their advice.

company director, restaurant owner/worker/manager is just as bad as poker player for insurance premiums somehow

I've phoned up insurance companies before and they suggested entertainer or professional sportsman (both of which unsurprisingly result in huge premiums).  I decided to settle on house husband.  Even before I was married and living in a shared house I used house husband, I agreed with my housemate that we'd just pretend to be in a civil partnership if it came down to it.

In my experience insurance companies are extremely lazy when it comes to investigating claims, doubt they would ever look into your job title anyway.

yeh i guess as long as you can somewhat marginally back the claim up.

Most of the online comparison sites have "gambler" down as a profession but unsurprisingly "house husband" gave cheaper premiums as already mentioned. After reading my terms and conditions for insurance they only want to know of any changes when renewal is due, including if you get a ticket for speeding (arrived through the door a few days after renewal was complete, phew!). I imagine changing jobs would be the same, so if it's realistic to do, start your renewal with a "safer" job title.

Which terms and conditions? The comparison site or the insurer? I'd be surprised if any of the comparison site specialists were turning down the chance to get a legit premium increase or a less legit Administration Fee.

The insurer, direct line in my case.

Direct Line's policy document.

(http://i.imgur.com/FtXrT4X.jpg)

You have to tell them about a change of job immediately. I was surprised that points and disqualifications can wait until renewal.

Ah ok interesting. I figured they would care more about driving offences rather than a change in job.