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Selection is close

the automatic qualifiers for Europe are

McIlroy
Willett
Stenson
Garcia
Rose
RafaCB
Wood
Sullivan
Fitzpatrick

thats 5 rookies

favourites for wildcards are

Kaymer
Westwood
Knox
McDowell

3 spots

your wild cards are?

at this stage, facing speith, dustin and the rest, are we underdogs?

We have enough experience there to surely not need Westwood?

Would rather take Beef.

Knox is my favourite player, so he is in and so is Kaymer.

We should be underdogs but can see the U.S. getting so pumped they implode.

I'd argue we don't have anywhere near enough experience as 5 out of the 9 are rookies.

Westwood, Kaymer and Knox for me.

For some reason GMac is 1/6 to make the team with Knox 4/1.

Kaymer and Westie are 1/50+

GMac now 4/11 with Knox 9/4, Donald and Lowry 6/1..

Westwood nailed on I am told

Knox, Westwood and Kaymer ainec.

Loads of stats being bandied around about Rookies but golf has evolved. The young players aren't daunted and for the most part are better than their more experienced counterparts. Pick on form.

Still think no Westy.

Same agent as Clarke?

As said, golf is a different game with these rookies mixing it weekly on both tours. They know the environment and their opponents.

Take people playing well.

Irony is that Westwood has been in the better form of most of the options. Yes Donald and G-Mac had high finishes this week but have generally been useless for months. Lowry won't get a pick as forms not been up to it, Hatton probably would have got in with a win but likely to be a miss as not got the track record of solid performance over the last couple of years. Molinari? Another off form.

No way Westwood doesn't get picked.

Westwood is an ideal partner for Willett right? close mates, good foursomes pairing. ditto fitzpatrick who is straight as a die

garcia and cabrera bello in fourballs?

rose/stenson always been a powerhouse, rose/kaymer an option?

who might partner mcilroy?

Would rather take Lowry to partner Mcilroy than find Westwood a space.

Lowry has a head for the big time, and nearly won a US Open earlier this year. Granted he is not ripping it up at this moment, but he is the future, Westwood, the past.

With Stenson, Rose, Mcilroy, Kaymer, Garcia, you have enough hand holders.

Willett wont need his hand held, nor Knox or Lowry.

Leaves Rafa, under the wing of Sergio, the natural Spanish charismatic option. Willet has played loads with Matty Fitz in Europe past few years. Sullivan seems to be everyone friend, and I would stick him with Wood, and you are pretty much there, when you link the other previous combos.

Rose and Stenson
Kaymer Knox
Rafa Serge
Mcilroy Lowry
Sullivan Wood
Willet Fitz.

Job done. ;)

Of the 3 picks I would much rather see Westy, Kaymer and Knox than GMac. Knox got nothing to be afraid of going up against the top US players after winning a WGC event late last year from a very good field and also won again in the US a few weeks ago (BidAdz knew early on he was going to be good). He plays with these guys most events so nothing new to him.

Pairings wise it feels like a few just fall together.

Westwood and Willett Get on really well and Westy's cadddie Billy Foster is also good mates with Willett.

Garcia and Raf Cab Games match up well and obv got the national bond keeping them close ( I'd have my eyes shut on every 6 footer they leave tho)

Kaymer and Sullivan, Not sure these match up personality wise but both of these play with a fade shape on their shots and think it's good to play with someone that see's the shots the same way you do. (Tho Willett hits a fade too so he would match up with these two as well)

Stenson and Rose, great pairing.

Wood and Fitzy, Young Brits together so should gel well and I guess if they fail you have got 2 of the lesser players beaten for the loss of just one point.

Rory and Knox Look perfect for each other imo


One of the problems if we pick Gmac is you are limiting the players you could pair with Rory. Gmac and him have fallen out over the court case and Rory and Westy fell out about Rory moving agents which is what got him in court against GMac as he has a share in the firm and Rory sued for overcharging. Could also be issues in the team room if 3 of your senior players have issues with at least one of the others.

Clarke won't pair rookies together we here possible. Is on record stating as much.

Rory
Wood

Garcia
Rafa

Stenson
Sullivan

Rose
Fitz

Willet
Westwood

Kaymer
Knox

The biggest concern is the lack of solid putters in the team. If someone offered me an o/u on the numbers that'd hole a 10ft for a point I'd probably take the under 3.5 (Knox, Wood, Willet).

I think there is a chance that Clarke has given Knox an unofficial nod.  He didn't play in the last two PGA tournaments which were both short hitters courses and ideal for Knox and instead took a break before the play-offs.  A high finish in either of those events would have got him in on World points (I don't think he has been credited with the points from his WGC win as he wasn't a tour member at that time).

Some great stuff here, & the Ryder Cup, whilst not my cup of tea at all (the over-hyping & schmatltzy stuff does my head in)  is quite the occasion.

If any of you guys think there are some good bets to be had, would appreciate you popping them onto Fred.

TIA

PS - Can I take it we will be subjected to 4 days of inane babbling from Sarah Frump on Sky Sports?

I reckon paddy got well filled-in on Knox who is now 4/6 from 4/1 this time yesterday.

Taking Graeme McDowell would be a mistake IMO. He is over rated and out of shape and quite unlikeable and think he would bring an ego that wouldnt be welcomed, or justified.

Whilst i would take experience over inexperience you have to mix it up in team golf events and also give some of those with a real future in the ryder cup a chance.

Westwood is a definite pick for me and Kaymer having now returned to form is also a shoe in.  I would take Knox over any of the other options, especially on US soil. I couldnt make a case for Lowry as think he is a bit of a bottler and slightly over rated.  I would also pick Luke Donald over McDowell or Lowry.

Its going to be an awesome event and cannot wait! I think it will be very very close as well and whilst i havent seen the prices yet, i would find them difficult to split. I am presuming the US are favourites on home soil.

Lee Westwood, Martin Kaymer and Thomas Pieters confirmed as the wild card entries for the European Ryder Cup team.

That feels like a bad decision to me. I can see their logic in the same way they picked Ed Mol over Casey et al for the Celtic Manor Ryder Cup in that they want to reiterate that it is important to reward players that play a lot on the European Tour. It just feels like recency bias in picking Peters tho, not that he isn't a good player but finishing 2nd and 1st in his last few events in pretty low class is a long way behind what Knox has achieved this year imo.

Paul Peterson is a pretty ok Asian Tour player that went off 250/1 in the Czech event and Peters couldn't beat him and last week he beat off Joakim Lagergren down the stretch, with Bradley Dredge and Adrien Ortegui filling the places. Those fields are a long way behind the quality of field Knox has played in this year and he has won 2 events. From memory the WGC event he won Dustin Johnson was 9/4 and Jordan Speith about 9/2 going into the last round and Knox kicked away from a very good field. The top 10 featured Rory Speith Reed  Fitzpatrick Dustin Johnson Grace Willett and Kisner.

He has just been doing it at a  far higher level than Pieters has.

This all over.

It was going to be tough as it was but just can't see us winning this time round no matter how rose tinted my specs are.

It's interesting, isn't it? I agree Knox deserves the pick but as of now, how would you price them in a matchplay against each other? I'd be smashing into Pieters if he were priced as the underdog.

I guess that's the Crux Ollie, Peters has a natural matchplay game doesn't he, will be good in fourballs where he can go for everything.

Just feels like the guy in the top 20 in the world with form against class fields all year should make the team.

For sure. The lucky man is Westwood really. Say only one rookie had made the auto picks, Clarke would have had a really tough time justifying picking him over Knox.

Yup. Don't get me wrong I like Pieters.

It's still the Westwood pick that wrankles. Been a great servant and all that but this is a stronger team coming at us this time and not sure he sets the right tone, as someone that just doesn't have the stomach for the final day, it seems anymore.

That said the Yanks seem to have a bunch of players that have yet to do so well in RC so far, and also expected to see more Justin Thomas and Rickie Fowler type names having qualified.

Agreed. I would have picked Knox over Westwood.

Rickie Fowler, Matt Kuchar and J.B. Holmes have been named as the first 3 of Love's 4 Captains picks.

The Rickie Fowler selection is great news for Europe. Woefully out of form all summer and has a terrible RC record. Gotta feel for guys like Daniel Berger and Ryan Moore who have been in good nick and deserve a chance. No doubt Bubba gets the final pick despite being in even worse form.

Likewise, completely baffled by the Rickie Fowler pick. How Ryan Moore hasn't made it is quite ridiculous, been really impressed with him this year.

Darren Clarke’s fury as Willett’s brother blasts ‘stupid’ US Ryder Cup fans

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/sep/28/darren-clarke-pj-willett-ryder-cup-article-us-fans?CMP=share_btn_tw

I thought it (PJ Willett's piece) was a cracking article myself.

he was very funny on twitter during the masters

not sure it was the wisest to go quite so OTT, however tongue in cheek it was meant to be, and therefore heap the pressure on his rookie brother ahead of an away ryder cup match.

after all, the american crowds aren't going to do ironic humour.

I think the reaction to PJs article proves that he was right all along.

The biggest problem with that article was the embarrassment it caused to Danny and his parents who are over there looking forward to the experience.  The distraction caused Willet to lose focus and it cost him is starting place in the foursomes.

It was stupid, pointless and a complete failure if he was intending it to be funny.
 

I'm surprised at how much Danny seems to have let this affect him.

I think he should have just laughed it off and said he's not responsible for anything his brother (who is a well-known loose cannon) writes.

I'm also sure that DW would have played foursomes with Westie today had this not happened.

Monty talking like he has had 10 coffees this morning.

Quality :)

http://www.skysports.com/golf/ryder-cup/news/26733/10598970/watch-heckler-sinks-100-putt

Love the Ryder Cup :D

Brilliant

Gotta love Reed.

Speith there freezing his nuts off with handwarmers next to Reed in a polo shirt!

Well my Willett to be top Euro pointscorer is not looking so bad now.

Pieters must be praying he doesnt draw that Westwood short straw again....

In fourballs, player A has taken 4 shots to get to the green, his partner has taken 2.

Is there anything to stop Player A putting his ball to where his partner is positioned and then taking another shot from there to show him the line?

Not very sporting, but yes, is allowed.

American crowds aren't very sporting either.

Kaymer and Westwood have been Europe's worst two players. So much for picking wild cards with experience. Should have taken Knox and Noren.

 ;bigadz;

Already got 6 rookies.

Clarke would have been slaughtered in the press if he'd picked another 2 and Europe had lost.

If we're cracking out the aftertime emoji...

Top European Scorer is now looking like a field with only six live runners and the books have gone 1/5 1,2,3. Cheers,Tighty and The Camel.
 ;bigadz; ;bigadz; ;bigadz;
(http://i63.tinypic.com/1252m45.png)

That isn't the greatest aftertime, as Cabrera Bello and Pieters weren't in the original top 6 in the betting?  I think it is probable that the top 4 play every game right now.  Only if one has an absolute shocker in the morning is it likely to change.

I think nobody has 2 points yet across the board, so still very wide open.  There can't be any chance for Kuchar now, though I can't think of a reason that will mean he doesn't play in the afternoon.  So the place is still a possible

My post was a bit tongue in cheek Keith. However, I do think if Europe were to suffer a big loss and Westwood plays as badly as he did yesterday again, then Clarke will probably be pilloried for picking his out of form mate over an in form player. I really don't buy the rookie thing anyway. These guys are all professionals who have won tournaments at the highest level. Russell Knox has won a WGC and been a successful tour player for a number of years. He's not going to wilt because a few yanks are chanting before his first tee shot.

Agreed.
 
No aftertiming here ;), I clearly stated Westwood shouldn't be going a long time ago. Knox is rated 19 in the world, based on grafting in the States. It was a no brainer. Westwood moved to the States to mix it with the best and it ruined him(relatively speaking).

For all that, I think we can win this now. If the US don't regroup quickly after some remarkable turn round in form, for the worse, yesterday, it could be a quiet day for the Yanks.

FWIW, I thought Pieters and Rafa were superb, Sulli got a bit unlucky with some crucial shots and Willet got F all help from Kaymer. The rookies did more than their share.

So you guys dont think a players Ryder Cup record means somebody deserves a pick? An absolute Ryder Cup stalwart with vast experience, a great record accross the formats, traditionally very easy to partner with rookies, and very likeable and popular with his peers.

In 2003 and 2004, Colin Montgomerie looked like he had never seen a golfclub before in his life, and had off course issues. But was still deserving of a pick, simply because of his record and experience. And that worked out pretty well for us.

Doesnt matter what form your in, a long and great ryder cup record deserves you on free pass as a wildcard pick.

Hugely disagree with that Buzz. Guys shouldn't be given a shot if they've had a terrible season  just because they've performed well in previous RCs. Let them be vice captains instead. Poulter injury was a massive blessing imo. Clarke would have felt obiiged to give a pick despite him being carried at Gleneagles.

Ah. I see you are applying The Wenger Formula.....Past achievements over ride current achievements. :D

I just think a strong Ryder Cup record deserves you one free pass. Pretty sure a lot of the lads in the dressing room would choose Lee than anybody else. I actually had Westwood as my first pick.

I think the Kaymer selection is possibly a bit more controversial. Since he squandered a huge lead in the last round in Dubai (i think) he hasn't really shown any form and i can't remember him being in contention much. Even though he is mainly based on the weaker European Tour.

Hard job for Clarke this year, because it's pretty clear, talentwise, it's the weakest team we've had for a long while.

I actually disagree about it being weak talent wise. It think it's perceived as weak because of a lack of experience but Fitzpatrick is as talented a young player that Britain has produced since Rory, Willett won The Masters, Wood won the European Tour flagship event, Pieters is widely regarded to be a potential future world number 1. Really it's only RCB and Sullivan that could be argued to not quite be at the true top level and RCB played absolutely superbly last night.

I think the US is overhyped because of the huge publicity vehicle that is the PGA Tour.

Let's be honest, if Europe lose Clarke will be pilloried whatever decisions he makes because the media are the biggest after timers around.

This crowd is starting to remind me of the behaviour at the War on the Shore.

Whooping and hollering when Rose put it in the water.

Is there any disagreement that Clarke has bottled it here with his foursomes? Putting Westwood. Kaymer and Willett back in when they've been the weakest players going smacks of weak leadership.

crikey don't agree with playing those three. Kaymer and Westwood in particular were dreadful yesterday

unless he thinks RCB is knackered that is, but even then sure Wood or Sullivan would do a job this afternoon. Wood very steady today.

I thought he'd play the same 8 that played this morning.

Except maybe give Garcia an afternoon off and replace him with Willett.

that comeback from the Spaniards was fantastic

Cabrera Bello has got some ticker.

Breaking up Garcia and RCB is just so bad. They have really fed off each other and have huge momentum. RCB looks made for it as well. Clarke has been exposed here.

when he picked the team for this afternoon the Spanish pair were 4 down

hindsight is a wonderful thing

They were 1 down at the deadline having won 3 of 4. Have to be able to change on the fly under pressure.

deadline was over an hour ago they were 1 down when it was released to press

even if they were 4 down it was a bad decision - Clarke's thought process is clearly being influenced by having to justify his wildcards, hence picking Westwood and Kaymer.

I agree that the Spaniards should have played, but once he told Willett and Westwood they were playing, he couldn't change at the last moment.

How would that make them feel going into the singles?

i wouldnt have picked westwood or kaymar but i dont blame him for resting cabrera

Like they had something to prove?

Some seriously good golf being played this afternoon. So good to watch

Gooooo team yerrrrp, especially Westie and Willett for my own pecuniary puposes.

 ;cheerleader; ;cheerleader;

In a world overrun with Health and Safety, how do people get so close to the ball.

Ryan Moore behind the tree was abso crazy!!

Pieters all over the place this afternoon.

Looking very tired. Might be one to oppose tomorrow.

Someone offered me evens that Poulter would be Ryder Cup captain before 2030.

Good bet?

The way I see it:

2018 Bjorn
2020 Westwood
2022 Poulter
2024 GMac
2026 Sergio

Only candidates who could get onto that list are Jiminez (bit too old now?), Padraig (not too well liked among the players is he?) and Lawrie (not really known for Ryder Cup exploits) I think.

Suppose there's a chance we lose 3 straight now, and they bring back Langer or Woosie to recreate the years when we dominated, in the belief the captain makes a huge difference.

The fact the young American players are just way better than the young Euros won't be considered reason enough for a losing streak.

Thought the singles draw worked out pretty good at first glance.. Strength v strength and weakness v weakness.

Until I looked closer and only Rory, Rose and Sergio are favs.

Stenson and Pieters are just about coinflips, and all the rest fairly big dogs.

USA extends its lead I think.

Fairly clear the rookie argument is dead. All have performed well bar the Rookie Captain.

I think Poulter is a cert to captain before 2030.

Not sure where Cup is heading when in Europe, but a Poulter captaincy at Woburn would be incred.

I think our best case scenario will be to get 5 points in today's singles but that is going to be a struggle.

We were never going to win this but with better selections it would be closer and more exciting for tv.

Meh, we've been here before.  Westwood just two short putts from 8.5/7.5.   Swings can happen pretty quickly.  Obviously we are big dogs.

Not sure I'd put Westwood out near last.  Not sure I could cope with needing him to get a short one in the hole when we are 12 each late on.  If I can't cope, he really can't.

I backed Europe at 13/2 after the 1st morning foursomes when we were 4-0 down, just felt it was a shade too big and, as Doobs says, things can turn quickly.  Obvs they did turn over the next 2 sessions and Europe were as short as 7/4 at one stage yesterday. 

They're now best priced 13/2 again (so I'm not aftertiming my value spot!) and I've just pressed a little bit in the hope of a decent Sunday night sweat.  Those first 4 or 5 singles matches are essentially coinflips, maybe 60/40s in Europe's favour.  If Europe do manage to get off to a flyer and win 4 of the first 5 matches the pressure on the Americans still on the course will be like nothing they've experienced before and the atmosphere in the galleries will change.  Obviously Europe are dogs but I don't see it as a lost cause at all although I would imagine if we do lose the majority of the early matches it could end up being total carnage.

Either way it's bound to be full of drama.  Sport at its best imho.  I can't wait for it to start.

Enjoy!

Jordan Spieth injured apparently. Hasn't been practicing.

Let's go Stenson.

Price is shortening yet Betfair Sportsbook are still laying £10 at 2.1 on a 1% account.

Anyone been keeping scores for individual players? 

Who do you want to know?  Worked them out last night.

McIlroy, Pieters both 3.  Reed, Spieth both 2.5.  Rose, Kuchar amonst those on 2. After that just ask

Epic golf from both Rory & Reed here, what a match.

if anybody can link up a reliable stream i would be very grateful.

trying first row and it is awful.

Mostly Rose all over him like a rash in every category. 

sigh....how did he leave it short on the last !?

we got thumped, with about 5 passengers on the team

but we won the post match press conferences

Willett asked at press conference to describe first Ryder Cup experience. 'Shit,' he says. He's asked to elaborate. 'Really shit,' he says

Westwood meanwhile said in response to a question about heckling "yesterday i was called a turd for the first time since i was about 12"

meanwhile, a single US player was left a little isolated...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtzTGzvXgAAsd3S.jpg)

I think it's now safe to say that PJ Willett has been exonerated.

nonsense. he's obviously right but shouldn't have said it and screwed up his brother's mental state the week of the event.

slightly surprised it affected danny quite as it did, but to say PJ is exonerated is wrong in my opinion.

Yeah with brothers like that who needs enemy's.
Right or wrong it was a stupid and selfish thing to do.

Lee Westwood is 43, his short game and putting have been poor for about the last 10 years. He tells Clarke not to pick him on Saturday morning coz he needs to do some work on his game. Clarke picks him to play that afternoon. What work did they expect him to get in on Saturday morning that would cure 10 years of poor short game and putting?

Very weak by Clarke for me, seemed to get bogged down with a pre event plan that his rookies would be the weak part of the team and the experienced guys would have to play more. Was pretty obvious that Westy and Kaymer were playing poorly and I couldn't believe he picked Westy to play on Saturday afternoon. Tbf to Westy he almost got it done but how do you justify picking someone on merit in that spot given he has told you is game isn't there.

Seemed like a pre event plan got in the way of Clarkes eyes to me.

Agreed.

I was very disappointed he did not pick Knox as a wildcard, how could you not pick someone who has won twice of the PGA tour in the last 12 months?

Also, his pairings clearly showed he was out of his depth.  After the 4-0 hammering in the opening session he was like a deer in the headlights.

I think it's unfair to blame Clarke.

The simple fact is outside the top 4 or 5 players of both teams - where I think Europe might have a small edge - in the bottom part of the teams the USA had a huge talent advantage.

Several players who should be at their absolute peak have disappeared off the Ryder Cup radar completely - I'm thinking about Donald, GMac, Dubuisson, Colsaerts. These guys should be the heart of the team, but seem to have lost their form completely.

Maybe guys like Sullivan, Fitzpatrick and Wood will step up for the experience and become top 20 golfers. But unless Europe find another 3 or 4 world class players, I can see USA dominating the Ryder Cup for the next decade at least.

Wow I would certainly take the Ryder Cup at my home course :) Can't see it unfortunately.

Russell Knox is a top 20 golfer and we didn't take him.

I think Clarke is totally to blame.

I'm not suggesting he cost us the Cup, but he cost us momentum by making stupid choices at a critical time.

Ben Coley in Sporting Life wrote a superb piece on it but as I'm abroad I can't open it now, but would ask if someone could post it please?

Here. Quite aftertimey, but an interesting read nonetheless

www.sportinglife.com/golf/news/article/2/10603007/ben-coley-reflects-on-mistakes-made-by-europe-captain-darren-clarke-as-usa-won-the-ryder-cup

Why do you think Adz liked it so much ;D

Could I interest you in a tin hat at a reasonable price?

Surely the Knox fans wanted him there ahead of Pieters, who got 4 points? we already took 6 rookies, replacing Westwood or Kaymer with another rookie would have lead to everyone after-timing and saying we needed experience.

I don't think Clarke was great, they'd be decisions he made that he'd like to revisit in hindsight, but we were beat by a better side playing with home advantage.

Hopefully guys like Pieters, RCB, Wood and Willett can use these experiences (good and bad) to push on and put it right in 2 years time

Cheers Bergeroo.


Marky don't need a hard hat. Nowt in that coconut to damage. :)

As Adz said, nothing to damage inside there :D

I think we had a really good run for quite a few years and they were due. It's great to stick it up the septics because of some the tossers that get over excited and step over the line. I say appreciate the last few years, let them enjoy their day in the sun and losing will make us appreciate the win more next time around. Blame is a waste of time and energy, it's only useful if Clarke was going to be captain going forward and he isn't......