blonde poker forum

It’s with a particularly heavy heart that I’m posting this on here, not just because it’s the second such post I’ve made recently but because Renee has been a friend of mine for many years. However Bankroll Supply feel (as do I) that recent events regarding her should become known to the community.

On September 14 2016 Renee requested permission to play the September Super Stack tournament at the Vic using Bankroll Supply funds. This arrangement involved BRS staking Renee for the full tournament buy in out of her profit loss for the month, in return for 50% of any cash she may achieve. Renee has engaged in many of these arrangements over the past 12 months of her time with BRS, and there has never been a problem prior to this incident.

After the completion of the Super Stack, Renee reported to BRS that she had played the tournament but had not cashed. It has now come to light that she in fact won the event for £16,648 as reported on the Hendon Mob. In order to conceal this result from BRS, Renee requested that she remain anonymous in any reports and declined to participate in the final table photograph. This infers that from the start of the event Renee had intended to mask any cash from BRS and thereby keep all of her winnings.

Upon discovering this, Renee was contacted by BRS and has since paid back £4000, slightly under half of what she owes under her agreement. At this time Renee was given until the 30th September to pay the remaining £4324 to BRS. That date has now passed, and the money has not been repaid. At no stage has Renee disputed her arrangement with BRS or that she was funded by them. She accepts that the arrangement described in this post was made, and is choosing not to honour it.

This is not intended to instigate a witch hunt or anything like that: this post has been written to inform the community of the situation and warn them should Renee seek sponsorship or staking in the future.

Known screen names:

reneexie / cheekysharky (Party)
anychipsabout (Coral)
cocktail566 (Pokerstars)
cheekysharky (Grosvenor)

Hey

There was a post abot a prominent member of uk poker community posted an hour ago and deleted now.

Why was t deleted? Very important it stays up. Not only will it stop her thieving from others in the future but also stops other potential scammers thinking about it in the future.

I removed it for now seking other opinions. The person concerned has never posted n Blonde and I am not sure we are the home for bankroll supply's private busimess. They will have Facebook groups etc rather than using us to disseminate it. If my concern is a minority view then it can be posted up again

I don't feel like this is private business. As my post said, we tried to deal with it in house, and it's now got to the point where we feel it's worth letting the community know what the situation is so they don't fall victim to the same dishonesty as we have. She may have never posted on blonde, but she has been a regular at dtd, is well known on here and is regularly mentioned in live tournament updates because of this. I don't feel like people who are potentially dangerous investments should be kept secret. I'm not meaning to offend anyone, I tried to make sure what I posted was factual and not emotionally charged, and I certainly didn't intend to be disrespectful to you tighty.

Yeh definitely not private business, I don't follow bankroll supply on facebook (I think their group is even private) if they have somebody who scams them and is good at poker they can easily apply to my, Sinon Galloway or whoever else's stable and we will have no idea they are a theif and will steal from us too (very high % of poker scammers scam multiple times) never mind just stealing at live stops from people/hustling etc.

I think the details of what happened was she basically was additionally selling action to others on top of being staked (people outside of brs) so effectively scamming those too (unless I'm mistaken)

She was doing that also yes.

OK I understand the points made. My point stands that if the person is not a blonde poster then I don't want to see us turned into 2+2 where this is commonplace and every grievance is aired. Not sure why BRS have suddenly started doing it on here either, there must have been dozens of similar cases over the years. Anyway I will put the post back but personally I am not too happy about these posts. That may be a fault ony behalf

Threads merged, original post back.

Maybe a post along the lines of:

"BRS would like to bring to your attention the following update regarding Renee Xsie: bankrollsupply.com/ReneeXsie.html"

That way the news gets out and blonde aren't left in a potentially awkward position.

12? Months ago we were approached by Renee about staking - we being Paul fowler and me !- Paul was a luton reg now lives in Newcastle !
 As she was assisting him in translating some docs for his business
I asked a mate on his thoughts
 n they were that she's a top 20 finisher
 but not a top ten finisher
 as the staking was for £1100 a month off each of us ,which included a couple of hi rollers I said no too big for her ability level
All I can say is phew !
 And vul brs !!!

She is well known n well, liked ?- so fk knows why she's deceide to do this ??!!
 On the uk tourney circuit rich so I feel it's quite relevant to know that she's 'at it '
I would always prefer this info out in the open !

its out in the open. i am not a member of any BRS group/forum and i knew about it just from scanning my facebook feed about 24 hours ago

i remain uncomfortable with people using blonde for this purpose, but happy to accept i am in a minority (if i am)

This sort of thing definitely needs to reach as many people in the community. We want to stop other people getting burnt don't we? What if she approaches someone she knows on blonde for backing and she steals from them too?

I don't think it's about airing BRS' dirty laundry, just so happens that they are one of the biggest staking businesses about and most of the scamming stories will come from then.

As for Rennee, well, could you be more stupid? She is a horrible person at the table as well, berating people, rude to people, talks about people like they're not there. Nasty piece of work and I'm not surprised to find out she's a thief as well.

I hope she isn't allowed to walk through cardrooms unnoticed now, as often ends up being the case in these situations, people just ignore rather than confront. She needs to pay PJ back and then be EXILED!

Go on Alex! You tell em :)

MY two cents, although clearly with my staking hat on.

The main industry-wide negative feedback thread is on 2+2 and I'd encourage BRS to X-post at least on 2+2 also.  Having all relevant info on one thread acting as a central repository is definitely the way to go.

As for additional posting on Blonde for UK-centric matters, well ofc it is ultimately up to the owners of Blonde what they will and won't allow on their forum.  Perhaps somewhat unsurprisingly, I also think the info should be posted in clear cut cases of wrongdoing (there is a worrying trend recently on spurious negative feedback being given) I don't see this as a free service to BRS - them posting is more like a free service from BRS, to the rest of the poker community.  Of course, it isn't really UK-centric either ~ someone from Brazil could easily be  staking her today, blissfully unaware of the issues.

Recently the name of 'Kellett' came up on a staker skype channel and having never met him, the only reason alarm bells were ringing in my head was due to a vague memory of his infamy from c2009 posted here on Blonde.

This is exactly why this kind of information needs to be shared.  If we in the poker community don't look out for each other, then who will look out for us?  

I understand your concerns about posts like this Richard, but I think factual posts in respected environments like this are needed in order for the community to protect itself - It's  ok seeing everything on Facebook etc but really, so much can and does get exaggerated and distorted within social media I for one would rather see information from trusted sources.  

I messaged brs and advised/asked them to X post  on 2p2 too

Re Kellett he did a xfer with Rob Tinnion. Rob sent, he didn't. Disappeared / didn't communicate back since. Rob wrote it off.

This post is going up on 2+2 as well.

So you no longer think Rexas is a "grass" like you said in the Aaron Easom thread?

Didn't know that thread existed some wild stuff on it

Made me chuckle.  When it suits ftw!  I could tell you a few stories about this bird and her gold digging tactics via friends as i haven't played poker for a while (obviously) but i don't think this is the time and the place.  Doesn't surprise me in the slightest what has happened.

She's playing Day 2 of the GukPT Mini tonight in Luton. She was there for last night's Day 1. Whilst I'm pretty certain that she was the subject of conversation at every table (other than her own), I didn't notice a single confrontation. In truth, there's not a lot to be gained from a random player challenging her behaviour. It would need to be a BRS person, or one of those she has scammed that should call her out. Can a casino ban a person for alleged off-premises crimes? No, I don't think so.

My read of her is much the same as Alex's: nasty piece of work. We can only hope that, with this info out there, all but her most blindly loyal "friends" will freeze her out.

In the meantime, I'll be keeping an eye on RX's table tonight.

Might play the 6 max now..With popcorn. Funny how some people you just never warm to. Just never liked the cut of her jib

Well sayed.

After the completion of the Super Stack, Renee reported to BRS that she had played the tournament but had not cashed. It has now come to light that she in fact won the event for £16,648 as reported on the Hendon Mob. In order to conceal this result from BRS, Renee requested that she remain anonymous in any reports and declined to participate in the final table photograph. This infers that from the start of the event Renee had intended to mask any cash from BRS and thereby keep all of her winnings.



How on earth does someone that well known, think that after winning a tournament like this at The Vic, you are going to keep it quiet  and "disappear" in the poker world rotflmfao

A casino can ban anyone for any reason they choose.

Private members club innit.

They can ban anyone, but not for any reason they choose.

They can ban you without giving a reason though.

Just my daft sense of humour at work

I don't think that statement makes sense.

If they don't have to tell you why they've banned you, they can ban you for anything.

Well I suppose a better way of putting it would be there are some things they are not allowed to ban you for.

but they can ban you for it without telling you thats why your banned

One thing a casino is highly unlikley to ban you for is being a good customer no matter how you get the money.

A manager can just ban you for any reason, the colour of your skin, your sexuality, the way you dress or because you looked at him in a funny way.

Because they don't have to tell you why, you'll never know the reason.

So in effect, they can ban anyone for anything.

What did Ali Mallu get banned for?

He got back in pretty quickly probably because he likes to play table games.

Wasn't it giving the dealers shit?

Lol she was at Luton G last night as bold as brass... laughing and joking without a care in the world...

abs no shame

Must be a bit of artistic license in your prose here

He elbowed a dealer in the ribs from seat one at the poker table.

I think he was banned from all Grosvenors for about a year.

Evil Cackles count

For those who enjoy a touch of schadenfreude (not sure about the spelling), she busted before the money. I didn't hear any raised voices; in fact I just saw her engaged in convo with various ppl at the breaks. Interestingly, one of whom was subsequently banned from the casino & disq from the tournament for taking a piss in the smoking area 🍻

I miss Luton

Haha, in fairness it's a good 20metres to the toilets from there

rofl which do we think is more thick?

1) Thinking that you can win a live tournament without anyone noticing

2) Paying £4k for the scumbag tag that you could have had for free

gl getting paid back to those that are owed

Forgot to mention she was happily playing the roulette wheel.. One way of getting the money back I suppose

tierrollsupply

Grass

dont shoot the messenger

More importantly how did she get on? Asking for a friend..

That is more thick by a mile. If your gonna grim then you might as well get the full wack.

Perhaps she owed someone 12k and intends on paying the other 4k back.

Camel loves a good grimming thread

She is an absolute thief , she had multiple chances to do the correct thing, her words I will sleep on it when I called her . The next day she said no I need the money. And now shes sat in Luton playing the GUKPT the hard faced cow.

She even Kept the money back from money owed. Other Casinos want to follow suit of DTD and ban her and keep people safe from her thieving ways.

She was alone at table on break and I warned dealer not to let her steal any chips :D her face was a picture!

I wonder if you'd do that if the player was 6ft 4 and built like a brick shithouse?

What a ridiculous question. He's not stupid, of course he wouldn't.

If you get a chance to call someone out then you should. If calling them out means a potential punch in the face then you shouldn't.

He can borrow my 6'10" rugby playing mate for that one......

What good does the comment do?

She knows she stole money. Alex knows she stole money.

All the comment is doing is telling the dealer she stole money and I doubt the dealer gives two shits.

Like when you were hounding Mark Wright on here?

Yeah just like that.

Except totally different.

Not really Mr Hypocrite

Why is a big guy more likely to resort to violence than some crazy woman? Woman can easily rock out the pepper spray or dash a glass of prosecco in your face. Think the big guy is safer option really. Or maybe that's just the women I know..

It's the people with keyboards that you have to watch out for.

Nah it's the small geeky types who are the most dangerous these days, lot of resentment about their diminutive stature, socially awkward and wealth of experience playing COD. These guys can easily wait outside and squirt acid in ur eyes without breaking sweat.

I see zero benefit for calling her out in front of the dealer and no one else.

I see zero benefit in calling Alex out after the event in front of the whole forum other than you seem to like to be the moral judgement in grimming threads.

Go and troll elsewhere please.

Ahh the old 'I dont'like your comments so you must be a troll' line, one of your favourites   :D

What's next, the trembling upper lip and threatening not to post again?  rotflmfao

Brilliant as ever :)
Bout time we had something to do
Like piss up each other's back n say it's raining
Keep going
Funniest line so far ???
God I miss Luton

Quality post

Is there a full moon tonight?

Calling her out makes her feel uncomfortable, and she should be made to feel uncomfortable at these events. Everyone just standing by and saying nothing and whispering behind her back is just going to make her think her behaviour is accepted by the community and will do it again.

Just don't understand why she is getting called out to her face when countless others who have stolen far more get to play totally unhassled.

I could list 20 players who I know are still playing regularly who have stolen far more. Never once heard a single player say something to their faces before.

Think this thread and a thread on 2+2 is more than enough to warn people against doing business with her.

Anything more is unnecessary roughness.

Maybe Alex actually has a pair of bollocks, whereas you only do it on forums....

Stop it Andy. It's not as though she's stolen anything from you, or Alex for that matter.

How can something be unnecessary roughness? She's stole a few grand, not owes a £20 because she forget her add on money. The only roughness and injustice is on the BRS people

Camel post once a month, sees grim thread, post refresh refresh refresh post refresh refresh refresh post 😂

Haha, yeah, takes some bollocks to call out a 5ft, 6 stone woman.

I would have said everything I said on here about Mark to his face.

I know it doesn't stop you normally, but try shutting up about stuff you know nothing about.

Sorry Ralph, but Keith always pokes his nose in on these grimming threads with huge inconsistency. He was the big bully boy on the Mark Wright thread, then totally different when redarmi grimmed.

Its seems he wants to hold himself as this huge moral ground on grimming, but when I see inconsistencies like that I have to say something end of story. This was none of my business and I wouldn't have said a word, but when I see a hypocrite poking his nose when it's also none of their business then I'm speaking up, so there you have it.

I didn't spot anyone helping out Sam Trickett when two players stole from him and they carried on playing poker at every venue in the country.

The dispute is between BRS and Renee Xsie.  Let them sort it out.

We all know she stole the money now and no one will do business with her.

At the risk of breaking up a perfectly good fight, there's a question that no-one has asked as yet - not that it solves BRS's debt collection problem (but it may have prevented it):

How on earth was she admitted into the BRS group in the first place? There seems to be consensus that she was shady at least, and a distinctly aggro personality that must raise basic questions about her suitability for the "close-knit group of friends" that I'm told BRS is akin to.

Clearly there's a serious fault in the recruitment process.

Or is this being unfair?

anyone called the police?

Very much like the Big Sam situation really

One hundred lines.

I will never get involved in arguments with trolls again.
I will never get involved in arguments with trolls again.
I will never get involved in arguments with trolls again.
I will never get involved in arguments with trolls again.
I will never get involved in arguments with trolls again.

I would recommend 1000 different lines for you.

Don't poke my nose in when it's none of my business and I would look like a hypocrite
Don't poke my nose in when it's none of my business and I would look like a hypocrite
Don't poke my nose in when it's none of my business and I would look like a hypocrite
Don't poke my nose in when it's none of my business and I would look like a hypocrite
Don't poke my nose in when it's none of my business and I would look like a hypocrite

I don't know why Tighty considered closing this, because everyone bloody loves a good grim thread.

Apart from the Grimmer and the Grimees of course.

Would like to apologise for making a serious comment, by all accounts please don't stop fighting on either my or 4Ks behalf:

Before this, I don't think people seriously expected Renee to grim. I'd have considered myself a friend of hers and she never seemed like an unpopular character. I mean, after all the stuff that people have been saying over the last week or so you'd have thought every time she walked into a cardroom she'd have been booed out of the place, but that simply wasn't the case. She would have been a long way down the list of people I'd have expected to grim anyone. Yes, she wasn't always the most pleasant person at the tables (I've even spoken to her about this and tried to help her sort it out), but there's a huge difference between being a bit of a dick and being a dangerous investment. She's been staked in loads of tournaments down the years, and to my knowledge she was a trustworthy investment.

If people know/knew otherwise, why wasn't it out there? Why didn't people know about it? Silence on these matters is (imo) stupid for exactly this reason, if people in the community had knowledge that she was a potential grimmer then I think they had a duty to let everyone know.

Please do-there are new players/stakers turning up all the time and it would at least give them a fighting chance of not being grimmed.

Absolutely.

Fk em let em learn the hard way :)

Unnecessarily rough

Keith what is it with taking the moral high ground or policing these situations? If someone has grimmed then it should be exposed as much as possible. I absolutely condone anybody bringing up these matters in person to embarrass because it's the least someone can do. It takes some bollocks to do it whether it's a tiny woman or a WWE coke head. I don't think for a moment that Alex is some kind of coward that would only say it to a small woman I also don't think Woodsey (despite some tiny shit stirring) is out on a trolling mission and once he came across well on his point you just screamed "troll troll troll".

Forums are public and I think it's important wrong doings and scammers should be outed.

Woodsey 100% troll (although prob v good company irl).

Keith imo just doesn't like seeing a mob which is fair enough.

These people need to be put on the spot and let them feel the fool because they can't explain themselves.because they clearly ain't going to say they stole the money because they are broke or owe it someone else.

Problem with people now days no one wants to be the hero but just the spectator...look at everything that seems to happen in the world these days there's always someone filming what's happening but not anyone there to help the person in need.

Does it really matter if someone tells the dealer of her wrong dealings....is the dealer not a human is he/she not part of the poker world. Atleast he had the balls to say something to a well respected player unlike many of you guys who would say nothing at the table Intill someone else said something.

If more people stood up and put these people on the spot then maybe others will think twice before doing it

Yeah but what about her feeeeeeeeeeelings

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/091/524/b56.jpg)

PM sent

 :(

The gist of the PM is I don't like witch hunts and mob rule.

I understand the mob thing as can be unedifying but, being pedantic, it's not a witch hunt.

Yah, calling the woman a witch is unnecessary roughness imo

Calling her something that rhymes with Witch hunt though might not be too far of the mark.

Second best post on this thread so far
I miss Luton still leads - imo

That seems like fair comment, but why did you have to say it via PM when you made your original observations in public?

Surely the way forward would have been to PM Alex in the first place.

I probably shouldn't have made the comments about Alex in the first place.

I was pretty angry when I saw him bragging about "outing" her like he was some sort of hero. But I should have counted to ten and not posted.

Makes no difference what I think, and I just get into pointless arguments with people whose opinions are not going to change.

So I decided not to post on the subject again. But then Dan made a perfectly civil post which I thought was worthy of a reply, so I PMed him.

See that's the thing Keith. Most people don't think he was bragging about outing her like he was some sort of hero.

If you make controversial comments people will disagree and ask you to defend them, that's how debate works.

Is your opinion likely to change BTW?

Impossible my opinion changes.

He has fallen to the lowest common denominator and resorted to oafish behaviour. On a subject that is none of his business. She didn't steal from him.

Achieved nothing.

*This comment does not necessarily apply to this case, I have no idea of the details here. But my point remains.


I have been in this game for the best part of 30 years. I have seen literally hundreds of financial disputes between players.

Things are rarely (if ever) black and white.

When someone makes a claim that x stole from y. They often conveniently forget to mention a salient piece of information.

This forum has nothing to do with BRS or the player involved. It shouldn't be up to the mods / owners of the site to decide what happened and whether to leave the OP up.

If someone has committed a criminal act, the place to go is the police, not an internet forum IMO.

And your calling Alex out was none of those things?

He bragged about it on internet poker forum that I visit.

But I accept my post achieved nothing. That's why I regret making it.

Wasn't she  gambling with stolen money in a casino that he visits?

This is going nowhere.

You or nobody else are going to change your minds, so continuing to discuss the matter is pointless.

And this is why I PMed Dan rather than answer him on thread.

So everyone can crack on throwing stones without my participation in the thread.

Just for the record though, Alex is a tosser.

Equally just for the record, I don't know Alex and just because I think he acted like a dick here; enough people I respect like him, for me to have the opinion he's probably a good bloke.

So just because I now say he's a tosser you want to say he's a good bloke? You were calling him all sorts up until now.

You're so argumentative Keith.

I've got two minds to PM someone.  :)

About to take chiplead in GUKPT london...

got 88 vs AQ on 6 A 8 A board

Poker Gods have never been happy bedfellows with karma.

Guess who's on the feature table... (http://www.gukpt.com/live-stream-2/live-stream/)

The chat messages are quite amusing, "Can't believe she was trying to sell action to people.for this hope she goes broke pure scum and filth what she did"

The Tower has gone very quiet.

The chat messages are a bit too much.  Sure pull her up for stealing money, but some in the chat box are not making me feel any better about them.

Edit.  Didn't realise she is wearing a t-shirt with "bad" on the front.  That takes some chutzpah.

mike jones?

how many guesses do i get?

Well, you could call it that...

Has Alex walked onto the stream yet and pointed at her shouting 'grimmer' yet?

I played with seat 2 'Nik' a couple of years ago and he was very good then...

And seat 3 too. He was conservative and very quiet at the table.

Should def get a t-shirt with that on and float by the table a few times  rotflmfao

"They have mispelt Anonymous."   rotflmfao

I couldn't disagree with this more.

Roughly how much of the money that is in play in tourneys and cash games is either "stolen" or "dirty" would you say Tom?

20%, 30%, or possibly more imo but that doesn't stop anyone playing on moral grounds that I know of.

Oh I don't know Ralph. IMO it doesn't matter if it's 10% or 100%, the moral argument is still the same. That wasn't really the point I was trying to make though.

Keith's argument was that he called Alex out because he did something that Keith disagrees with in a place that he visits, so I countered with the fact that Alex called Renne out because she did something that he disagrees with in a place that he visits.



My own opinion on the matter is, although what she has done is deplorable, it isn't that shocking. Gamblers are poor choices when it comes to choosing who to trust with your money.

When it comes to lending money I use this criteria.

1- I trust them completely.

2-  They give me some collateral.

3- I trust them a bit and it's an amount I won't lose sleep over.

I've just looked at your question again Ralph. I didn't quite understand it the first time but now I do.

I think 20-30% is a conservative estimate.

Genuinely with all due respect Keith, I'm not sure how you can call what Alex did 'oafish' when you are currently using this image as your Blonde avatar like a badge of honour:

(http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=63654.0;attach=36225;image)

I don't have any objection to either this or what Alex did, just saying it seems a bit disingenuous that you can reprimand somebody for calling out a grimmer when it is arguably in the poker communities interest, yet proudly show off an instance where you made an unprovoked attack on somebody else.

(how do I make the image smaller?)

QFT

Me too, I was going to suggest 50% at first but decided to err on the low side.

The whole point is that in an environment awash with "dirty" money and the folk associated with it, not to mention those age-old siblings needy and greedy, it seems churlish to be surprised and outraged at the odd stroke being pulled or someone playing with stolen money.

If the casinos barred everyone playing with dirty money they'd be almost empty, and there wouldn't be much poker action.

Yep. I wasn't surprised or outraged.

To be perfectly honest I love gamblers and gambling culture. I get on quite well with rouges and what I call 'Honest' criminals, but I don't think either this thread or Alex's comments were out of order. 

I was just clumsily trying to say that Keith calling Alex out was a controversial move so he couldn't complain when people didn't agree. It also smacked of double standards.

Is this really the case nowadays?
I would have agreed maybe 15 years ago but very surprised if there was that much dirty money around now

LOL @ honest criminals.

Lewis was on the radio when I tweeted that, and I thought it was bizarre that he took time out from his busy schedule fighting for consumers rights to respond.

It is not a "badge of honour", I just thought it was very funny. I shall take it down if I can be arsed.

a lot, just as much as ten years ago

proceeds from armed robbery, drugs (not unexpected), embezzlement, fraud, guns all in use for poker and pit games and that is just those individuals i am aware of.

no, not giving names!

I find this so strange.

I've played in cardrooms where murderers, paedophiles, bank robbers, pimps and drug dealers play totally free of criticism or remark.

I've played with cheats, bad debtors and scammers totally unchallenged.

Yet the person who has "crossed the line" too far that she gets called out is a woman who has stolen £4k from a staking business.

Soft target.

Next time I play in the same cardroom as Alex, I'll point out a couple of career criminals and bad debtors for him to call out, as he seems intent on cleaning up the industry singlehandedly.

Haha, that wasn't directed at him. He, or any other person with a brain wouldn't say anything to a murderer or bank robber. Just human nature. I'm not a fan of renee, but some of the stuff written about her online has been terrible. Especially from people that have been in the card room with her all week and
Not said anything to her, so in a way, fair play to Alex for at least making a Comment in front of her.

Also, I wonder if the online comments would have been so harsh if it was big Dave the bank robber or hatchet harry the murderer that had scammed BRS for 4K?

You are such a hypocrite.

You claim that you're against witch hunts and mob mentality but don't you see that what you're doing here is exactly the same?

Just because nobody joins your pointless crusade doesn't mean you aren't attempting to get one going.

PM sent.

That was meant as a joke BTW.

The convicted criminals served their time and if they haven't been charged with whatever it is then its just hearsay. There are plenty of avenues to leave anonymous tips if you feel that the hearsay is compelling to the point where you believe that someone is causing serious harm to others.

Murderes and paedophiles get long prison sentences, people who steal from the poker community struggle to get credit in the poker community and receive a few barbed comments. I'm not seeing the injustice here. Nobody is advocating to string her up, but its this lazy apologism that fosters an environment where stealing is socially acceptable.

The problem isn't that she stole the money, the problem is that under your system she steals the money and gets off scott free
 
Edit: Hopefully Paul takes this to small claims court. Its hard to ignore the bailiffs

I'm not apologising for her at all. I think she should pay back the money immediately.

And if she doesn't the injured party should make a criminal complaint.

All I'm saying I don't think poker players should get involved policing other people's debts.

As I said earlier, these things are virtually never clear cut and it is the most popular, the one with the loudest voice or simply the one with the deepest pockets who is believed and supported.

What I said wasn't quite accurate, I don't think that you're apologising for stealing or that you think that stealing isn't bad...but you are advocating a culture of silence

You seem to view this as a transaction between two parties that has no effect whatsoever on anyone else. Clearly this is not the case because we see it time and time again that stealing/scamming is very rarely an isolated incident. That being true, anyone that might buy a piece of anyone stands to lose out when thieves are allowed to go from backer to backer stealing money without anyone warning others.

I would completely agree with your view Keith if there were no other stakeholders in the transaction, but I think that your characterisation of this activity as something that has no effect on anyone else in the poker community is wide of the mark

Stop it you bunch of filthy trolls  ;djinn;

But what gives anyone the right to act as judge and jury?

There are so many nuances and grey areas in these disputes. It is virtually never black and white. Look at some of the car crash threads on 2+2 if you don't believe me.

The best example I can think of is the Max Steinberg v Tim West dispute on 2+2.

Horrible thread, horrible situation. And a great deal of money involved.

I'm not acting as judge and jury, she admitted her guilt and since Rexas was very reluctant to make this post I have assumed that the threshold of proof required for him to do so was extremely high.

If it was up in the air whether she actually did the crime or not then yes my point goes out the window and I would agree with you, but the way that this has been presented and that fact that she admitted her guilt by paying back half of it is proof enough imo.

I really do agree that a consequence of abusing trust should be a public outing. The guilty party will have plenty of opportunities to avoid that eventuality by agreeing to do the right thing at any stage. There should be a backlash so everyone knows it is a bad thing. But what gets my goat is when people pick and choose who deserves such treatment. I remember that boldie fella's case being swept under the carpet. Blonde need to swing one way or t'other with this. I say every case needs airing, it's valuable to the poker community and it's healthy for the post count.

He had mental probs tho 👍🏻

I've been pretty careful not to defend her actions in any way.

But burden of proof shouldn't be left to mods / owners of a site to decide.

As a general point I don't think these threads should happen. What if the evidence is slightly less clear cut? Where is the line?

each case is seperate. We were implored by his family to remove it because there was a mental health risk. That put us in a very difficult situation indeed.

others have played out publically

Generally, while accepting that the need to ensure there is no contagion from someone grimming person/staking group a and then going to person/staking group b and doing the same is high, I personally would swing against blanket publicity. That said, this appears to be a case where there are fewer grey areas than most of these situations

word of mouth, social media etc is powerful and it avoids the type of ludicrous trolling and welter of recriminations/fall outs between posters that these threads always descend to.

Yah but for all the righteous opinions people LOVE these threads. Because people just love rubbernecking. My man camel who doesn't agree with these threads has been super interactive as usual. Take away these threads, take away all the updates from other poker rooms, take away everything controversial and what do you have left? Boldie is one eg but I have seen more popular people get an infinitely easier ride. What I would say is it's a great opportunity for this bird or any wrongfully outted party to set the record straight. Much better than everyone gossiping behind your back.

Yeah, excellent post Mantis.

We all make mistakes in life. I think most of us are pretty forgiving when someone holds their hands up and say "I'm sorry I screwed up - lets find a way to sort it."

The problem is when people bury their head in the sand, try to find another way out, often chasing losses and often end up griming others.

If this type of thread stops that then I can see a benefit for the wider poker community.

Saw that guy on my FB timeline last year, seemed to have made a full recovery and was in full brag mode about life iirc

Grass

Boldie was 'outed' though wasn't he? If he wasn't then how the hell do you or I know about it?

It wasn't swept under the carpet. Everybody who was about on the forum at the time knows about it same as everybody active on Blonde now knows about Renee.

I think Boldie was a scumbag for what he did same as I think Renee is a scumbag.

Absolutely bizarre stance in the thread from Camel.

It's very simple. Imagine you were a reg in Luton card room and you were kinda guy to put people in comps. She knows this and is friendly with you, she manages to convince you to start putting her jn tournaments. Meanwhile she's doing the same thing with multiple others too, overselling and making money. (I'm not sure if you realise she also sold to outside investors as well as playing this on stake and didn't pay them either)

Weeks/months go by (God knows how long she's been doing this) and then you catch her. You're playing the next night and feel completely aggrieved. You tell a table mate and their response is "yeah I knew she had done this a few months ago, didn't really want to say anything, she's just a woman and there's worse humans in the field.

How tilted would you be? If threads like this don't happen then scammers will scam again and again. In fact sorry that's wrong, scammers will scam again regardless of threads like this, but because of these threads less people will get fucked.

BIG +1

Yah fo sho but what about the nuances

How tilted would you be if someone started a thread about you and you were innocent?

I know one player whose reputation was completely trashed in a thread like this. And he was entirely innocent.

It was complicated, but I believe in the situation he was in, he did nothing wrong.

Thread is becoming a bit of a camel witchhunt and I'm not comfortable with it.

But this isn't just another thread, this is a thread where the person has admitted completely they stole the money, so I don't understand how your post is relevant?

fwiw I think Alex is a douche (i've got a chart to prove it)

Because I am talking about these threads in general, not this case.

I haven't defended or excused what she has done at any stage.

What happened with Max Steinberg and Tim West out of interest? Totally missed that one.

??

She has admitted to stealing the money.  THats not up for contention.

Please tell me you knew this lol?

This is going back about 5 years, so from memory it went something like this:

Tim West was top 10 in chips in a multi day tournament after day 1 and wanted to sell 25% of his action at 2.0 or something on 2+2.

He said "I'm going to bed now, first posters who are "known" that post are considered booked up til 25% is sold."

He woke up the next morning and only 15% was gone. he contacted them to confirm.

In between him looking at thread and play starting Steinberg posted "rest"

West didn't look at the thread again until chip leader at the final table and had sold the other 10% off site.

Huge blowup. As far as I know, West never paid Steinberg.

lol the subtle ones are the best :D

Don't see how this is a grey area to be honest. The seller should have posted on thread in the morning that the "up to 25%" offer was now closed.  If he didn't close the offer then any eligible takers up to the time the tournament restarts should be considered done in my opinion.   Of course having open ended conditional offers with no defined termination time is always going to end in tears.

The wording used was extremely vague.

This was a totally calculated, cold blooded grim. 

The vast majority of poker grims are degenerate opportunistic scams, where ego clouds judgement and opportunity outweighs logic.

She had the plan to do this before she even set out to buy into the tournament and has almost certainly done it before.

Why the hell should she get any leniency?  This is one of the worst types of scams out there, to soften it because it's a small amount or cos she's a woman is ridiculous.

If you steal. You very called a thief and that's that.

I'm not sure how this could have been a planned scam, when she has given some of the money to BRS. I'm not even sure why she even gave any of the money to BRS either.

To clarify, she requested that she be named anonymous on the reporting of the tournament (and is shown as such on the hendon mob http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/event.php?a=r&n=361843 (http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/event.php?a=r&n=361843)) and she refused to be part of the final table photo. She also (unconfirmed, but has been said a fair few times) sold extra for this event. This was not a case of her getting a big score and taking the snap decision to run away with it. To make yourself appear anonymous and back out of the final table photo clearly indicates that she intended to scam all the way through, and had considered how to go about it without getting found out some time before she actually won.

She gave 4k back to BRS only after being confronted about the grim and threatened with court proceedings, she fully intended to take the whole lot and would have done if she hadn't been found out.

Yeah, I get the whole anon thing. I just don't particulary get the reason for the £4K giveback. Are you still considering court proceedings?

PM sent

(https://media.giphy.com/media/xKy2w6LehxxHa/200w.gif)

tbf wud Alex say that if camel was 6ft4 and built like a brick shithouse?

bang bang

Would that be the Ram / Ivey golf bet thread from many years ago Keith ?

Is theft morally acceptable? No, it isn't.

Is it morally acceptable to run a business that effectively gives people credit to fund something that could be a problem or an addiction? No, it isn't.

Because you are all poker players, it possibly doesn't register as unusual because staking is normal and accepted as a practice. It's illegal to give credit for gaming for an operator. I don't really think this is that different.

If you're going to take the moral high ground about ethical behaviour, the first port of call is surely that we don't put ourselves in a position where we potentially exacerbate the underlying problems/demons that other people have.

Again - I accept that theft is wrong. But desperate people will behave desperately.

I think there is a big distinction.  Operators would be giving credit hoping that the clients lose.  Stakers give credit hoping that they win. Their interests are aligned.

This is actually a very good point and one that I'd not thought of before.

Operators would give credit if it was profitable.

This thread has been ridiculous enough without Casino's taking the moral high ground.

I agree it's a distinctly valid point and a very interesting point.

The problem is at some stage society need to draw a line and not give excuses for people to latch onto, no matter how unfair it might seem, people ultimately need to stand tall and take responsibility for themselves and their actions. Mental problems, addictions or fell asleep at the keyboard...where does it end? Once we are happy to make and accept excuses the act becomes acceptable and tolerable. In society these days it's always somebody else's fault, everybody is a victim of circumstance. As harsh as it seems we need to be definitive about what is right and what is wrong regardless of circumstance, if not we no longer have free will as people we are merely puppets of circumstance.

(http://i.imgur.com/4XRoCqZ.gif)

Might be the first time I've agreed with a Mantis post so have to give it a deserving gif. :)

They do give credit and presumably it is profitable over the long term

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/ritz-casino-sues-high-roller-clients-after-gambling-debts-lead-to-125-million-loss-10103156.html

Bugger me (exclamation, not an invitation)   ....    thirteen pages on 'Reckless Renee'.

Naughty girl    ....     nice bum, though.

I think he was referring to Ched Evans to be honest.

Pic?

Agreed too... we do live in a society where its always someone Else's fault and taking responsibility for ones own action is something to be avoided at all costs

But doesn't that make you responsible for avoiding your responsibilities?

Distinction between backing and casino credit is certainly inaccurate, because casinos are businesses taking mathematically advantageous positions against their customers (such is their intention anyway) much like lot of businesses, stock markets, supermarkets car dealers.

Staking is a mutual business agreement where you're paying to share equity with another business.

I would say that drawing comparisons to casinos encouraging gamblng addiction is wildly off the mark, most staking operations - and i know BRS are included in this - require a decent amount of proof of winning poker play, or a lot of experience in the games you are requesting staking for before you are able to join, unlike casinos who advertise everywhere for customers.

less of the "business" please - staking is a jolly gamble, entirely for the entertainment of all concerned.

Was absolutely planned , I was with her in DTD all day Saturday , i even brought her a waffle  over from frankies because she was a bit down she had bust , She was waiting to see if the Caribeean Sat to start we were putting her in. She lied to my face , not once did she mention she was through with a huge stack !!!! How is that not planned ? Not only that she was selling action on top of the initial stake I arranged to be sent to her . Shes a theiving horrible woman who deserves everything she gets , I never refused her anything we were close. More fool me but that woman is a scumbag , and I will tell her too her face when i see her.

If she had any kind of issue either with needing money , we were close enough for her to tell me , I would of gave her the money or whatever she needed. Really it can not be justified what she has done.

assume this is a joke?

HMRC would I'm sure be interested in a test case to tax a professionally operated staking "business".  In contrast to a mutual gamble where they would have no chance.

I'm not sure why I'm rising to this, but if you accept that poker is a game of skill (gambling yes but a form which is beatable) then how can you not accept that staking can be a business? You're simply gambling that the people who you stake are good enough to beat the game long term, but you're gambling with prior knowledge of their performance and with informed judgement. It's no different to most other businesses in that sense. Basically every business owner is gambling on their own ability, knowledge of their field and effectiveness of their staff. I'm not sure how you can criticize someones business as a "jolly gamble" which is entirely for entertainment. I mean this is obviously total bollocks, of course it isn't "entirely for entertainment". I imagine your comments are more than a little bit insulting to people who own staking companies, and they are certainly not intelligent or informed.

I think you are missing the key point of doubleup's post that all businesses pay tax on their earnings and staking businesses presumably don't in doubleup's opinion.  Therefore it is better to keep staking as a 'jolly gamble' in the eyes of the taxman and not a business.  Think you have been whooshed.

Exactly.  The reason gambling winnings aren't subject to income tax is because, in the opinion of a court many years ago, a card player or horse better wasn't a trade, profession or vocation.  Moving this on to staking, we have somebody "putting a few horses in for a sweat" - this as well fine imo and couldn't really be called a business.  It begins to get very grey when you describe meticulous selection of horses etc and even worse when you describe yourself as a business.  Far better to keep it aimed at the entertainment of stakers imo.

Rexas has done a great job convincing the tax man they might have a case for taxing his paymaster's operation!!  vwp!

poker is not a skill game lol

i sit in william hill and charge people $20/hour for tips on the horse races coming up, showing them data etc - i pay tax on that

i sit in william hill and only choose bald people to give $100 for the next race that i will ask for 50% of the profits to - i don't pay tax on that

if i lived in finland, then it would be different, gambling winnings are taxable and i would have to pay in both scenarios.

Not overly sure what's going off now, think I got the bite a little there :p

if BRS is a registered company in the UK (website doesn't say, no company number given) , employing staff and being promoted as a business, its liable for tax isn't it?

Shhh!!

Ixnay on the usinessbay.

You are completely missing the point.  Gambling winnings are not taxable but gambling businesses pay tax on their profits.  The courts decided many years ago that an individual gambling wasn't a gambling business.  An individual or group staking a few horses in a tournament also is highly unlikely to be a business.  However, if you call yourself a business <ding ding ding> and adopt the policies of a business, you shouldn't be surprised if HMRC agree with you and ask you to cough up.

  

But what about pics of the nice bum? That is the most pressing topic here...so if they aren't taxable et's see em.

If you're a registered company in the UK then any profits it makes (revenue minus expenses) will be subject to corporation tax, regardless of where your revenue come from. The "gambling" that is tax free in the UK is personal recreational gambling, you win a poker tournament for £x, the lottery for £x or £x on roulette that money is yours, the government currently has  no distinction between Neil Channing pro gambler, and big mick who plays roulette every friday.

Organised, professional gambling - any corporation that profits from gambling on a professional level is liable to the same tax everyone else is. You might argue that what is the difference between say, Toby Lewis and a ltd company syndicate that bets football matches is actually nothing in principal except scale, and you'd be close to right IMO however this is just how it is.


When i referred to staking as a "business" in this post, I was highlighting the difference between a casino/gambling business and an organised staking company (which is quite a bizarre thing to have to do TBH) and was keeping it in context, if you like you can think of it like this;

Casino's are desperate to try get you in and gambling with negative expectation, whilst staking is a jolly gamble that both sides are sharing the EV off (be it positive/negative/neutral) one example splits the expectation and the other takes from each other, utterly different (in fact in business theory terms i doubt you can get a bigger difference)

On a separate note, your sentiment is defo accurate for the vast majority of staking arrangements, John off to play a £500 f/o, he's prolly a losing player but has a few moves and has a win in him if he runs good, Pete just fancies a punt and gives him a 1er for 20%... However there is certain individuals/organisations that have run an extremely professional and highly profitable staking business and done very , very well. It would be like comparing a car boot sale to an asda, in theory the same thing (selling stuff to the public) but obviously it's nothing the same at all.

If you don't believe anyone has ever made +EV, consistent, huge money from well run staking operations then you are 100% wrong and if you'd like proof it's easy to provide.  

ffs I don't dispute it's possible to make money from staking.  My only point is that it is unwise for tax reasons for such activities to be publicly presented as organised businesses.

So what are you saying

I'm saying that hmrc take enough out of the poker economy via betting duty.  So telling them that you are running a business and thus inviting them to tax you as such, when in reality you are just a group having an informed gamble, seems to be risky from the POV of the poker economy potentially being taxed even more.

 

Just to add to the much gnashing of teeth     .....

Luton GUKPT Main result

1 Haxhiaj, Driton £61,520.00
2 Byrne, Paul £52,000.00
3 Vinson, Benjamin £28,080.00
4 Kennedy, Brett £18,240.00
5 Rubiogamito, Jose £12,480.00
6 Boyle, Derek £9,360.00
7 Vanwalsemvasnunes, Paul £7,440.00
8 Kimber, Jeffrey £6,000.00
9 Phillips, Janice £5,040.00

20 Xie, Renee £2,400.00

Cue, numerous heart murmurs    .....

Stick this one in the Best of Blonde.  A short-ish thread where you can look back in years to come on the most concentrated batch of personal-worst posts from well known and otherwise respected members.

I think there is a huge misconception that the government just doesn't realise the "goldmine" of taxation they are missing in gambling.

I cant imagine some savvy HMRC guy is going to be scrolling blonde oe day and finally realise all the tax they are missing out on.

QFT

And employers national insurance.  And it has to file accounts. Would probably also fall under one of the regulatory regimes as well if it is providing financing.  I'm guessing keeping it unincorporated as Doubleup says might be wisest!

On the plus side Rexas incorporated will be able to offset Ms Xsie's default against taxable earnings :)

Everyone cept me, Simon and Glen should be ashamed of themselves.

Simon trod a fine line there tbf but agree in the main with your observation

Yeah!

But just to be on the safe side, fuck Simon, let's ditch him.

 rotflmfao rotflmfao

Started reading this thread and as it got interesting, the issues behind mob rule etc got me thinking about a radio play on Radio I player called Comment is Free about a political commentator who is deliberately obnoxious and people on the internet trolling him etc. Well worth a listen.

Still cant get my head around this knowing Renee quite a bit as most who play UK tourney's will - Im most mindful every story has two sides but it doesnt look or sound very good thus far - Im gutted and shocked if true and need to reach for my default bad humour mode so here goes...the opening post has added an S to her name or is that a $ - very poor that one I know!

This is the most over used saying in the world in gambling circles.  How many people say this about people they never have any interaction at all with outside of a casino/card room?    You spend hundreds of hours sitting next to numerous people in the false/fake world of a casino but never ever see them outside of this environment literally ever and even though you think they are your 'friend' you actually know nothing about them.  How many people actually knew her away from gambling?  Totally outside of poker?  Very few i would imagine if she was this way inclined to steal and cheat.

If I'm not mistaken, her side consists of:

1. She recently lost her job
2. She felt she had been wronged by Paul Jackson, for reasons unspecified

Neither of these points justifies her actions to date.
 
She has it in her power to pay the c£4.3k outstanding, and make an apology.

This won't repair all the damage that has been done to her reputation, but she'll be in a far better place than she's in at the moment. A touch of humility wouldn't go amiss either, but I suspect that's asking too much. The likelihood is that she will not repay the full amount, as she will have painted herself as the victim, and the money is fair compensation for her 'suffering'. No, I'm not a psychologist, but I've seen a lot of this kind of thing over the years; the bad guys have to find a rationale that allows them to live with their actions, imo.

"1. She needed money for treatment of a sick relative that has cancer. 2. Tuition fees for he child's school and 3. She needs to pay landlord rent 12 months in advance." These are the excuses that she gave, I don't believe (although I may be wrong) that the comment about losing her job came out until after these excuses had been made.

Part of the problem I have with this is that I was in a situation a few years ago where I desperately needed money, had debt collectors hassling me etc. I played a tournament for BRS before I was a part of them and chopped it, taking a small % of myself. At no point did I consider taking the lot, despite how much this would have helped my situation. The amount I took away was enough to pay off a fair chunk of the debt I was in and give me a little more time to try and sort things out. If I hadn't won that money, I would have been in bad shape, but not buried.

Renee is basically trying to claim that she is in so much trouble that 8k wouldn't have been enough to get her out of it. If that's truly the case, what on earth would she have done if she hadn't won this money? Was she planning to just punt tournaments until she had a big win, and then grim whoever had put her in to that particular one? Just seems completely ludicrous to me, when I was in money trouble 8k would have been way, way more than enough to get me on the right track, and an extra 8k wouldn't be worth sacrificing friends and reputation for. The string of excuses just doesn't sit with me. Tuition fees for child's school? I'm pretty sure she doesn't have kids (although not 100%), but either way what? If she hadn't won, her kids wouldn't have been able to go to school? Money for the treatment of a sick relative, then again what happens if she doesn't win this money? And the 12 months rent, would she not have had a place to live if she hadn't won?

Wtf is going on with the quoting skills? From blonde veterans as well.

Oh and thanks to the fella who sent me the ass picture.

Poker players are so bizarre.  Landlord wants rent 12 months in advance so I'll just take it from my backer.  That's fine then.  Nothing to see here.

In our defence, the fact that it becomes thread worthy and everyone jumps in makes it news, which makes it uncommon overall :p

The idea was that you post it ! As he can't !

I hope she isn't actively looking for a new job at this moment, because her theiving ways shows up on a Google search straight away.

Unlike her backside(allegedly).

http://www.checkcompany.co.uk/director/6917071/MS-RENEE-XIE

The company is dormant and it looks like it has never been an active company.

Another bluff then she told me she was 34

Are you blind?  I would have bought at 46 for decent amount.  34!!!!!!  Numerous members of the poker community i know have seen her a lot more close up and personal than i have though tbf!

I always got confused.

My Dad would have said a kronenbourg. 16 from the back 64 from the front!

Rose tinted specs obv me

Very good.

It needles to me to have to post tbh. I have been friend with Renee 6 years , outside of poker too , I cared for her we had a solid friendship, anything she asked to play live I okayed , she had zero reason to do this , if any of the shitty excuses she has made to for eg school fees ( in 6 years she never mentioned a child to me btw) I would of helped her anyway possible. She got thru day 1 of the comp in question on the thursday , she spent the day with me saturday at DTD just chilling chatting , she never even mention she made day 2, she lied to my face and was waiting for the cpp sat at dtd I agreed we put her in. She premeditated all of this. I hate all the silly memes and jokes on social media I have more class than that , but the fact is she planned this and decided on a whim not only to Fu*k her backers over but a friend. So if she gets made to feel uncomfy now and again , people calling her out then tough shit. Its deserved.

If you cared for her and she's your friend you could be a little more understanding tbf

I'm completely with Sylv on this. I was one of her friends, spent a good hour talking to her on that same Saturday while I was playing. The fact that she's made all of these comments about how much she needs the money and then she's playing 1ks and various other tournaments so soon after? I think this is totally classless, and more than that feels like a personal insult as if she thinks she's not wronged anyone and can just keep going as if nothing has happened. What does she expect? Everyone to just be all friendly with her as if nothing has gone on? If she feels uncomfortable when she plays in a casino then that's completely deserved imo. What's more, Sylv cared for her as she does all her friends, but I don't know how you can be understanding about something like this when Renee has behaved how she has, and been given opportunities to make it right. Because of this, I don't think Sylv still considers her a friend. I certainly don't.

WP Glen.




(http://static.premiersite.co.uk/34299/img/34299_5564680.jpg)

:)

There is a disgusting trait ever present amongst poker players and that is a serious dis-respect for debts and loans.

Money seems like it flows pretty endlessly, you see a guy cash a comp for $160k only 3 months after cashing for $89k, wow this guys must just have endless money... It breeds this contemptuous attitude of "well X doesn't need £Y as much so i won't pay what i owe on time" the debts are seen as very soft when they are not they are as morally black and white as they come. When you owe on an interest free loan unless the agreement is otherwise very clearly laid out then that loan is #1 priority, you don't go on holiday, you don't eat at fancy restaurants, you don't shoot big comps or game until that money is paid back. Everytime i go to facebook i see poker guys who owe me 4figure+ sums going on holiday or playing golf, basically I'm just paying for their holidays and recreations, because they don't care about the debt and that is equal to stealing.

Poker players should understand more than anyone the opportunity cost you can incur by having your cash anywhere that isn't in your bank, I've borrowed a ton of money in the last 2-3 years for business projects and paid plenty of interest on it, if some of the guys who owe me would have stood up and done the right thing might have saved me a few quid, but again they don't care because poker breeds this horrible attitude towards money.

Renee planned this the whole time, regardless of her need for the money you always have two options in life, to do the right thing, or to do the wrong thing, sometimes it's blurred by circumstance or you simply don't know which is which but if you're a good person then you stand on your decisions and take responsibility for them.

She decided she was in a jam, needed money and picked stealing as her way out, not opportunistic stealing - but cold blooded well planned theft and she picked Paul and BRS to steal from because they trusted her and she knew she could abuse that relationship, there is no difference between this and a confidence trick, and certainly no difference (morally at least) between this and walking into a shop and putting something in your pocket, or just taking someones handbag in the street. There is no justification for this, and the very fact that isn't as shocking as it should be is a damning insight into the awful attitudes of poker players towards other peoples money.

Brarrffff :-)

Just all starting to feel a bit amdram and personal with all the howling and 'how could she do this to me ?' rather than a report of a bit of everyday bilkage in a business situation.

If we want to share among the community (lol) some credit rating details then lets just give her a score - the credit rating agencies don't send out a report attacking someone on a personal basis around their motivations, they just state the facts.

I'm moving firmly into the Keef camp on this, albeit for different reasons. Starting to think it's like a blow by the little man against global capitalism - wd Renee, the peoples champ

Don't agree pooftah. There's no emotion in the relationship between human being and credit score agency so unsurprisingly there's no emotional outburst. I mean if I took that dog from the ClearScore.com adverts out for walks, fed it, gave it treats and then it bit my hand or shat in my shoes I'd be WTF?? You ungrateful little beggar.

Agree. Kill the dog, little bastard.

After we've all finished pissing up each other's back n saying it's raining
We are aware of the fact that she's a grimmer
Which is worth knowing
I saw her Tuesday at a £60 bowl comp at Luton. On came the hello Tony smiley face ,I'm still happy to say hello ,but no chance of buying a % / lending any money and for this I'm grateful !
That's what this forum is for ? -info n advice on a wide variety of subjects not bitter infighting with each other ? Shirley
Cheer up it's Friday another grimmer will be along soon :)

Haha. Questioning myself now but pretty sure we should celebrate her in her quixotic quest against the usurers.

Oh 100%. Unfortunately I have zero sympathy for the staking business (sorry boys) because when you build out your shrewdie business model this is a variable you must factor in as a matter of business. When that eventuality transpires you can't turn on the non-businesses waterworks of trust abuse between friends. But that said as people we should do what we say we're going to do or life is going to suck ass. People tell me all the while 'I give you my word' and these days it means abs nothing. I am so anal about this, even to the degree that if I arrange a meet at 9:00...it gets to 9:01...and the other person isn't there...i'm already flipping my shit.

A pet hate of mine is bad timekeeping. Being ex military,if someone says we'll meet at 1300hrs, I'm there at 1255hrs.

Same here, drives me mad when people pitch up 15 mins late and think nothing of it.....

I'm also in that camp on timekeeping.  Particularly hate it in Vegas when notoriously late people want to meet in the lobby at 6pm.  Err...that's not happening.  I'm in the poker room, table 27 seat 4... get me from there.  Stand me in the lobby for 20 minutes, I'm not going to be there when you get there.  And if I am, I'm not going to be good company.

As for staking sympathy, I don't want any.  Yes, it is priced in.  That's why I don't mind when a short term stake works out to be a % that makes Wonga blush, it is also priced in.  Grimming is a cost of doing business, but as with other costs, don't mind me if I try and reduce them.  The poker community historically has done a beyond terrible job of self policing. 

All i have ever done is help that girl in anyway possible , like I do all of my friends , anyone that knows me knows that mate. This was calculated , the excuses was all lies, she entered a 1k event and spunked off loads on roulette all week.

Same here, when my students turn up 5 mins late and after the grief I have given them subsides I then ask them if they are ok that I let the class run over by 5 mins, because, "it is only 5 mins", they are not so keen and some do get the point.  Ex military too BTW but I was like that before I joined up, the way I was brought up don't you know.

Same here. A family member recently suggested meeting somewhere at "about 10."

I quickly said " about 10 doesn't work for me, let's meet at 10."

I knew that he'd be able to arrive about 10 past and still feel ok about it, whilst I'd be obliged to be there from 5 to, in order not feel I was late.

Stdd Jim McBride antics.

The risk of burglary is something that a person could factor in when moving to a certain part of town. Doesn't mean you shouldn't have any sympathy for the victim of a burglary, or that you shouldn't condemn the degenerate f*** that stole all their stuff.

Moving to a certain part of town is not a business. In Birmingham it wud be seen as a 'jolly gamble', perhaps without the jolly tho.

Stu Rutter aside, there is very little to be considered jolly about birmingham. Come to Yorkshire we're a merry barrel of laughs up here :)  ;cheerleader; ;applause; ;nana;