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Another one of these 'vehicle driven into pedestrians' type of atrocity.

It will no doubt result in the further tightening of security and yet more restrictions, but at the end of the day I can't see any realistic way of preventing this method of attack.

Sadly between this, Nice and Berlin, this sort of attack will be the weapon of choice for future attacks - as you say almost impossible to prempt and very easy to pull off. ISIS themselves actually have been imploring the readers of their magazine (yes, they have a magazine) to do just this.

I suppose it's a small mercy that the guy chose arguably the most heavily armed part of the UK rather than some random town centre.

Therre is a lot of street furniture in front of big stations, stadiums etc to prevent this, but there is always a limit. 

Always puzzles me why these people fall for the murdering innocent people gets you eternal reward line.  Do they not go "How can that work?  Just run that by me again?"

It can be said with hindsight really, but it was a bit of a sitting target wasn't it? Must be a high numer of people on that bridge during any time during the day. You can see what is going to happen though across Europe, putting bollards and similar in open targets. However, what is more worrying is that apparently there wasn't any armed officers on the gate at where the officer has been stabbed.

Very sad.

Yeah everyone on the news and politicians, all of whom obviously know Westminster well, seem to be referring to it as a well known blindspot. Wont be any more obviously.

Aftertiming terrorist attacks now.  London is pretty crowded, there are going to be loads of places where there are lots of people gather.  Anywhere near a station or tourist attraction for instance.

I thought the bloke was shot pretty quickly after the stabbing, though I guess there isn't an exact timeline yet, and even when it does there could be operational details missing.  Thin line between shooting potential terrorists and shooting Jean Charles De Menezes, and right now it is going to be a lot clearer what happened than it was when that bloke appeared at the gate.

I wish these people would just fuck off. Drove a car into railings, killed one person then stab a police officer. Nice one mate, i'm sure you'll be remembered for you're heroics and be straight into heaven.

Kinda fascinates me (somewhat morbidly) just how brainwashed a person can become, what collision of circumstances and mental pressure or torture needs to be applied to someone to make them believe so strongly that killing innocent people who have never harmed them, their religion or indeed probably anyone is what will get you to the promised land, to make people hate a person they dont know so much that are willing kill themselves in order to kill them. You would have thought that it takes a real freak of events to make this happen but it's (clearly) more common than would seem plausible. I guess it's a form of extreme depression and torture, almost makes you wonder if you should feel some empathy for them, the people behind these things are absolute low-end scum on the planet.

Just looked at the live updates.  He ran to the gate, stabbed someone, ran another 15 yards and was shot, after a warning.  Sounds like he was shot in seconds after arriving at the gate, so think it is safe to say there were armed security officers of some kind very near the gate.

The people who do the brain washing are the utter scum.

As you say, the people who actually perform these crimes are worthy of pity. How is their life so shit that they can do these awful things?

Surely you can't believe it's likely this was done with a sound mental state and full consciousness of what he was doing? The whole thing screams deranged psychopath from start to finish to probable motive.

I can't fathom the end goal, do the extremists seriously believe that they can achieve some sort of global caliphate?

Perhaps it's about time that there was a change in foreign policy. 

The key to ending these attacks is engagement with the wider Islamic community.  But this can't be orchestrated through the spooks and state sponsored agencies, it's got to be bottom up. 

its difficult to do it from the bottom up because so much of the population thinks "islam =bad". one nutter here, or a cell there means the very large majority of law abiding muslim citiens in this country get tarred with the same brush by big segments of our population

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7mDgOkVMAATz4s.jpg)

Have to say I'm more shocked by my level of desensitisation from events like this than the event itself

Fantastic

This, sadly.

There seem to have been so many in the West since Charlie Hebdo that they all follow a similar pattern - from the attack, the media response, the hashtags and so on - that it's all become routine. It's Europe's version of a mass school shooting in America.

Mostly the right wing.  The purpose of these terrorists is primarily to encourage hate and split society.  It is supremely ironic that the right wing are happy to be manipulated into doing exactly what the terrorists want.

 

I hate twitter.  Every time something happens you can almost sense the excitement of people getting to show just how much they care.  No event is too tragic if you get to pontificate on twitter and get some attention.  Ghastly invention for vacant shallow people.

Isis claims responsibility for the attack at Westminster - Reuters News Agency.

Yep, something about people wanting to place themselves front and centre of the narrative. Saw a viral thing yesterday with people marking themselves as safe on Facebook.  Yeh mate, you are, you live and work in Towcester but I'm glad all the same

Winds me up too.  It's everywhere.  Kevin Pietersen was running a poll on whether or not the police should be armed, what the hell's it got to do with him?  The ghastly Katie whathername slagging off the Mayor of London, other sports stars bleating on about it.   Someone's already flogging wristbands so we can all show our support.

I'm happy to get my news from the news.  These days too many people jump on bandwagons to get more publicity.

Shocking stuff. Really shocking. Our society should be ashamed.

Hyphenating "Thank you" pffff.

the thing about social media is the news organisations have a race to be first.

so C 4 news report the identity of the killer, turns out he''s in prison, they row back in the same hourly programme

and its endemic. accuracy second, being first is most important

--

another thing, the MP Mr Ellwood who tried to save the life of the policeman. Wonderful stuff, ran towards the drama when told to get away from the area and obviously should be applauded for his actions

i don't need television presenters and celebrities to tweet the picture of his arms on the chest of a dying man though. just far too intrusive.

Yup spot on. I briefly had an account but got sick of all the sanctimonious twats spouting bollocks!

Ha I couldn't explain why I deleted it ,this explains it perfectly thanks

Big +1

The genie is out of the lamp, I fear.
Interesting to see that it's only the suspension of major advertisers' money that is forcing Google to do anything at all about its radical content (both end of the spectrum) on YouTube

Since the attack we've had:

• Channel 4 naming the attacker as someone who is currently in prison
• The death toll, announced at 5 by the Assistant Commissioner of the Met Police last night, somehow decreases to 4 this morning
• A message generated on an online 'make your own Tube sign' webpage goes viral and is praised in Parliament for summing up the spirit of Londoners

24 hr news channels and social media means the old adage of 'A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on'* is more true than ever.

*Even this phrase has been attributed to everyone from Mark Twain to Winston Churchill and Jonathan Swift = #fakenews everywhere.

I felt desensitised too until I saw some raw, unedited, uncensored footage of the immediate aftermath.

Too horrible for words. 

Find it hard to believe that this is was an attack by a proper ISIS member, maybe a lone supporter but no actual ties to ISIS. Driving down the pavement in broad daylight armed only with a knife has had little planning and is  a very poor way of committing a "terrorist" attack. I could go out my house right now and kill way more people than this guy. ISIS may claim responsibility for stuff like this but it may actually do more harm than good for their cause, especially if they were planning something on London within the next couple of years.

I really don't think its that simple. There are segments of all our society that think this. There are plenty of naturally left wing leaning working class people that have exactly the view that "islam = bad".

That's probably part of it - I never watch things like this. Perhaps I'm insulate by my own sensitivities rather than desensitised

It's strange.

When mainland UK was being bombed by the IRA there wasn't (much of) an anti Catholic backlash.

It's probably as simple as more people are racist than we care to acknowledge.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7nP5EJXkAAeAuJ.jpg)

Surely a racist will hate muslims, seiks and hindus with equal enthusiasm?  If joe public is showing signs of islamaphobia I think it's more that he rightly or wrongly feels genuinely threatened by Islam.  Let's face it the terrorist guys don't exactly do much of a good PR job for the majority of peaceful muslims.  And then you've got the spin the press put on it which compounds the fear.  I think it's genuine fear as opposed to racism.

Not even a terrorist attack is it? Clearly a lone wolf, clearly a psychopath, but he just happens to have a Muslim sounding name hence the uproar when it likely isn't politically motivated at all.

Yo people who say a muslim=bad attitude exists in Britain to any great extent are expressing a lazy mentality. They are being manipulated by press hype (seeking to garner these exact emotional reactions) and they are spending too much time on social media giving weight to a minority of loony bins. As expected after this most recent tragedy the tv news featured an irate cockney in flat cap bouncing from foot to foot on Westminster bridge shrieking about "farking muslims in our country". But really I think British people, in fact the majority of all people, operate on a higher plateau of thought than this.

Did people feel compassionate about the loss of life immediately in this instance? Or did they wait to find out what the race/religion of the victims were before that empathy was freely given? Do people even know the religion of the victims, is that ever expressed in the news?? Would that MP who raced to save the pc have quickly turned away if the victim was Asian? I mean really, we are such a tolerant and compassionate race of multicultural people in this country and we should celebrate this strength with all our might, especially in times of crisis like this, especially where people seek to divide us. There is just no way I'm gonna swallow that most of us think muslim=bad in Great Britain, no way at all.

It's like I'm having a really hard time with these black packets of fags at the moment, babies smoking, hideous tumours etc, it's really doing my head in. But today I encountered a new one. A picture of a big black foot with several toes missing. I mean fcking c'mon man, seriously!! I know this is supposed to evoke the emotion of fear in me about being a big black foot man with no toes in the future, but honestly, take all the smokers in the country and show me how many actually have the big black foot disease?? So sorry I'm just not going to believe the hype. I'm not going to let minority outcomes colour my thinking, no matter how much the daily mail or twitter try to manipulate me. I will keep loving all people and for now at least I will carry on smoking.

I agree with you. I want to be on yr plateau and im not even gonna tell you my religion or race

Nor does it help that senior BBC reporters like Laura Kuenssberg persist in an aggressive line of questioning that suggests there was "a serious intelligence failure" that allowed this guy to do his thing on Westminster Bridge.

I really DO want a free press, but I'd like to think that the institution (that we fund as taxpayers) operates with more dignity and responsibility. Just what does she/they think they are achieving by brow-beating our already underfunded and overstretched security service?

Apparently there are 3000 "persons of interest". It takes 30 people to monitor one person 24/7 in real life and on line. He wasn't one of the 3000, and his last conviction was for something unrelated to terror in 2003.

When will the BBC's reporters be briefed that their job is to report on the news, and not to create news where is doesn't exist?

I'm sure we've all seen varying degrees of ridiculousness in the last 24 hours on the comments section of news articles/videos etc, but this one took the biscuit for me.

''Police should of just shot him straight away as soon as he was at the bridge ready to swerve into poor people  I know it's hard to predict exact time but they need to be more on the ball''

Yes, just shoot any brown person in a car. Incred.

(it was posted on the Britain First FB page so I really shouldn't be surprised at the lunacy of the people commenting there)

Also finding it depressing this picture of a Muslim woman walking past a victim is doing the rounds. Idiots will clutch at anything.

Seen a few momos posting that picture, too.

Britain First is useful for culling your own friends list.

I struggle to put my thoughts into words sometimes but this is beautiful, thanks.

They've arrested 8 other people in connection with it on terror grounds?  Police may be barking up wrong tree but doesn't sound like a lone wolf from that.

"The is just no way I'm gonna swallow that most of us think Muslim=bad in Great Britain, no way at all"

I think we can all agree with this. Vast majority of people realise there is good and bad in all communities/cultures/religions.

Problem is a small but significant minority pursue and believe it - it's definitely not just a right wing political issue.

Agree it's got very little to do with left/right - I'd me more inclined to think if there is a divide it's more likely to be based on whether you live in and around a cosmopolitan city or in a provincial town or village.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/fake-tube-sign-read-out-on-bbc-news-and-in-commons-after-westminster-attack/ar-BByCG6k?li=AAmiR2Z&ocid=spartanntp

For once, does it matter that it's fake?

Someone thought of the sentiment and wrote the slogan.

What difference that it isn't someone who works for London Underground?

An amusing side note in what has been a couple of miserable days?

Yah it matters because it's fake news, yet presented as reality, and it conjures lots of people to feel a certain way. I mean how dangerous is that? It's like we're all sheep ready to be herded into this corner of the field or into that holding pen. Creeps me out and I wonder why there isn't any accountability for these errors. The media are bugging me out at this time because it's like they're aiding the terrorist in the way they report these matters, so much coverage and massive amount of focus on religion. Is this actually a religious attack? Who knows for certain at this time? I read that it was an attack on British people. But the victims were American, French, Spanish, Polish, Korean, German, Irish, Greek, from a variety of religions. Does it matter that somebody thought of that slogan and reported it that way? I'd say so because in fact it's an attack on humanity, it's a crime, a lunatic and nothing to do with anything more. When isis claim responsibility I would bury that clown talk rather than flash it across the headline news every second, I mean what evidence is there? About as much evidence that I'm getting big black foot disease anytime soon!!

What is the end game of all this violence?

Have we got to get used to this for the rest of lives?

I think we should just send him back where he came from. Kent!

People have always killed each other, we're actually killing each other here at a declining rate.. I'm optimistic that will continue

Foreign policy HAS to change. We have to admit that our government trades blood for money in the Middle East like it isn't even a thing. Talk about desensitised to terror attacks, how about not even batting an eyelid at how we turned Iraq upside down, encouraged rebels in Syria and happily sold arms to the Saudi's when we knew full well they'd be used to murder civilians in Yemen. Perhaps it's sheer coincidence that almost all terrorism emanates from this region in some way? No, we have to shoulder at least some responsibility for creating environments where angry, disillusioned and susceptible young men can be radicalised with an anti-Western agenda. If imperialism can ever be stopped you'll find your solution. Start leaving the Middle East alone, and terrorism will end.

There's no justification for killing innocent people or purporting terror across a land. But jointly with the US, we're more complicit with this behaviour than any terrorist group ever could be. I love this country to bits, but fuck me do i think we live in twisted and sickening times right now, where bombing the shit out a country for its oil is normalised because it hurts too much to admit we're powerless to do anything about it. If we want peace it has to start with us.

It's not just the right wing tbf.  They are abig part of it. 

There are hundreds of thousands of disenfranchised working class communities who think muslims and foreigners are to blame for everything. 

They rely wholly on state sponsored media as well to dictate there view of the world.

The state is complicit in these attacks imo.  The likes of Maajid Nawaz and his organisation should be chased because they aren't ever going to get into the areas that need urgent attention. 

Excellent post.

I posted other day in the McGuinness thread a quote from one of my faourite writers.  "The terrorist always has the smallest bomb"

"We find that the growth in polarization is largest for the groups least likely to use the internet & social media." http://www.nber.org/papers/w23258

Considering the amount of gobshites posting on social media that surprises me a lot.

because people, working class maybe, older perhaps, perhaps not educated beyond 16, who are more insular (rural britain, maybe northern communities etc) don't get a wide range of views and live in their own real world echo chambers where they and like minded souls often have quite old fashioned views

social media has an echo chamber problem too but at least there is an access to a wider range of views and it tends to be the younger, more big city,university educated etc have the more tolerant views

(generalising of course,its not "one size fits all")

I think the vast majority of people are sophisticated enough to realise that this stuff has precious little to do with religion, thus feel no ill-will towards muslims as a result of this.

This stuff is really shocking but if you run the #'s there are 1.5billion muslims in the world, and I think >50 suicide bombers from a "muslim terrorist" group in since and including 9/11? So contray to popular belief I dont believe there are armys of muslim extremists ready to commit suicide for the cause.

Obviously the fact there are any is extremely bad news.

I think there's a lot of parallels with mass shootings in the US - every so often some nutcase is going to do something crazy.

Interesting that it has now emerged that the Westminster guy was a Muslim convert, just like the two guys who killed Lee Rigby. Converting to a religion as an adult is a sure sign that there's something not quite right going on in the head.

Turncoats are always the worst.

i love this. very clever

A dalek invasion of London

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7teP6aX0AEakHb.jpg)

an almost impossible question,but you'llnever guess who said this

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7jPgOPXQAEs1wf.jpg)

so here are four faces. pick the speaker

(http://images.radiotimes.com/namedimage/Charles_Dance_on_class__taking_on_bad_roles___and_why_he_s_sick_of_taking_selfies.jpg?quality=85&mode=crop&width=620&height=374&404=tv&url=/uploads/images/original/97579.jpg)

(http://cimg.tvgcdn.net/i/r/2015/11/17/3aecbab1-920b-4ae0-95b7-84126f6003da/thumbnail/1300x867/aa7a79d6d59f9d7e10039aaadefba411/ianmcshane-news.jpg)

(http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/vulture/2014/12/12/12-benedict-cumberbatch-1.w529.h352.jpg)

(http://conversationsabouther.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Gary-Oldman.jpg)

"While every attack is devastating, terrorism is not as consistently deadly as it was in the 1970s and 1980s" http://econ.st/2nkCY9V

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7wNOAYXQAAG4Wu.jpg)

The over-hyped coverage of the Westminster attack will only encourage others | Simon Jenkins

probably not a consensus viewbut an interesting take

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/24/coverage-westminster-attack-media-politicians?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Mindsets like this have caused much of the worst problems.

How so?

In my experience, people converting to something rather than being born into it or it being part of them feel as if they have something to prove. 

Huge reaction to this :-(

the answer was Ian Mcshane!

http://www.newsweek.com/ian-mcshane-american-godsdeadwood-572166?rx=us

it seems that over the weekend the home secretary and press discovered that the internet exists

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C76IikmX0AAYIe4.jpg)

i see that the mail owned metro is hosted on a subversive encrypted terorist app

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C76O1z4XwAIoQXF.jpg)

Sorry, think this was one of your quizes where you know too much.  I had no real idea who Mr McShane was and why this view would be surprising of him.  I vaguely recognised him, but would have struggled to even say where I knew him from.