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Guns don't kill people....

Las Vegas shooting: 50 people killed in Mandalay Bay attack


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41466116

Just soul destroying reading social media comments on this. Most people worried about labels and reinforcing their own perspectives.  World is full of shituations at the moment..guess it always was.

Just tragic :(

Driving around Phoenix n Scottsdale with a friend who lives there ,it's traffic mayhem big queues ,undertaking ,overtaking ,speeding ,crawling along yet not one horn blown off , or the wanker sign etc
I asked him whys there no road rage ?
He put his fingers together in the shape of a gun n said people carry guns !

(http://i.imgur.com/J7Ty62u.jpg) (https://imgur.com/J7Ty62u)

Number of Americans killed on battlefields in all wars in history: 1,396,733

Killed by firearms in the US since 1968: 1,516,863

(NYT)

The Las Vegas gunman had 19 rifles in his hotel room and hundreds of rounds of ammunition, an official said

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/us/las-vegas-shooting.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Amazing. But when you look at the math(s), it's "only" 40,000 firearm deaths per annum.

The most interesting fact I have seen this week, thank you. I am sure Trump will be able to add to them figures......both figures.

The state of gun violence in the US - explained in 18 charts.

I'm not sure how balanced it is, you can do all sorts of weird things with stats & graphs, but it's (arguably) quite interesting.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX4qUsgHa4Y

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruYeBXudsds

This will go down well with the NRA.

They happily ignore tens of thousands of deaths every year.  Think they'll manage to ignore a video.

Yeh, Bowling For Columbine has been in the charity shops for ages. Worth watching, if only to see the character assassination of Chuck Heston. I knew he was in the John Wayne camp of politics, but he was at another level.

Dan Bilzerian getting a lot of coverage in the mainstream media regarding social media criticism for running away, rather than sticking around to help like a lot of of ex-vets did. Looks like he tried to save face by saying he was going back to get a load of guns, and then returning.

I don't care how many medals someone has, but it is pretty ridiculous to criticise someone for running away from that.  I am sure it is what the police would advise in the circumstances.  It must have been absolutely terrifying. 

Agree with Doobs but not sure how running to get loads of guns is going to help the situation.

Some things experts think could prevent mass shootings.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/10/upshot/How-to-Prevent-Gun-Deaths-The-Views-of-Experts-and-the-Public.html

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLIgqwGX0AE1Nv6.jpg)

Headlines in the Onion

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLJP8F3XkAAU9Fc.jpg)

With respect to Doobs, I don't give a feck what the police advise, if someone is spraying bullets around, I'm running away.

Aside from being a thoroughly ghastly affair, the story fascinates.

In most previous cases of mass shootings, there is a political, racial, religious, terrorist, or idealistic motive, but none of those seem to be present this time.

The only minimal clue is that his Dad was a bit of a bank robber, & mentally flakey.

I guess at some stage the reasons will become clear.

For sure, he was well tooled up. The number of weapons he owned have been variously reported as 23 at the Hotel, 19 at his main residence, & 11 at his Reno house. He had set up cameras in his hotel room & in the corridor outside, too.

A really weird - & very tragic - story.

A book about the whole thing will be in the shops by Christmas, for sure.  

I think if anything this might inspire other people in similar mindsets to do something similar. I can completely see how down people might see it very cool that "anybody" can take on the police here. If you're a loner and feel like you have ran bad in some way that is not justified then this is in a sick way in these kind of people's minds a "cool" way to get out. You also have been nothing all your life, nobody knows you etc, perfect way to be centre stage.

Somebody told me yesterday (could be total bs) that Canada has similar gun control as America but just don't have any attacks.

Here's a link to a fairly recent article on the subject:

 http://www.nationalobserver.com/2015/12/04/news/how-american-gun-deaths-and-gun-laws-compare-canadas

Looks like it was extremely well planned and executed (sadly).

10 suitcases of weapons, 2 vantage points to flick between, cameras stationed to keep an eye on proceedings, modified guns for maximum impact. It simply didn't matter that he couldn't aim at anyone or anything in particular, the spray of bullets into a large crowded area was going to, and did, hit hundreds of random targets.

I can't help but feel money might be at least partially behind it (maybe clutching at straws but there doesn't seem to be any obvious motive). By all accounts he was a wealthy man, with numerous properties, and loved a high stakes gamble. Had he lost his net worth? Though reports are that he wired $100k to Asia just a few days before the shooting, so it really is a grey area.

Security at Vegas Casinos? Barry Carter tells us how it will be. And, he hopes, gets comped at The Wynn.


 https://www.pokerstrategy.com/news/world-of-poker/Las-Vegas-security-under-scrutiny_102208/

On a similar level as above, what are people's thoughts on the response time? It was 72 minutes between the first call to the emergency services and before they breached his room....

I did what I really try to avoid doing, and had to comment on someone's post on an Independent article yesterday on FB. He was criticizing the length of time, and comparing it to recent London terror attacks where the police were on the scene in minutes.

I felt compelled to point out that the 2 scenarios really aren't comparable; its much easier to identify a person or persons walking the streets causing havoc with knives. The Vegas threat was a whole different kettle of fish; the gunman could've been anywhere, so you have to narrow it down to the correct building, then floor, then room.....all the while whilst a shower of bullets is spraying down and you've got thousands of people fleeing in all directions, causing mass panic.

72 minutes does sound long, and it must have felt like a lifetime if you were involved, but I think given the unique circumstances, its not particularly slow. See what the investigation says, but my instincts feel that whilst it might not have been fast, it also wasn't slow.

Seems reasonable to me.

Finding the correct floor, & room, was a headache in itself. Then they had to get the right kit & a trained SWAT Team ready.

Earlier, a Hotel security guy knocked on the gunman's door, & received a hail of bullets through the door in response.

Just getting on the clobber the SWAT guys wear must take half an hour.  Pretty sure they don't sit around in that gear all day.



(http://i.imgur.com/jpwnvj2.jpg) (https://imgur.com/jpwnvj2)


 

The shooting only lasted 11 minutes though.

Had he still been shooting when they got on the scene I imagine the breach would have been sooner.

He had cameras on the corridor and likely shot himself when he knew he was surrounded.

That places their arrival on the scene closer to 11.minutes than 72.

Not to forget the amount of conflicting information they would have been receiving. Can you imagine how busy the emergency service line would have been?

Thinking like a criminal here, I have always thought Vegas is the perfect target for someone looking to cause as much havoc and damage as possible. Walk into the Amazon room, lob a few grenades, whip out an auto and let rip. Security is extremely weak as you just have those mall cop style people in yellow shirts stood by the doors talking to one another.

Weren't the windows smashed open? Surely shouldn't have been that difficult to identify the room.

I was reading that a lot of people want there to be snipers at all gigs like this, maybe abit overkill.

Perhaps when its light, and you know what you're looking for. And there isn't a hail of bullets, bodies and people running everywhere.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mandalay+bay+shooting&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi1t6CK-9fWAhXjI8AKHYlwDZYQ_AUICygC&biw=1366&bih=652#imgrc=JeIyr04PJ5d_1M:

Easy to identify the windows?

Do you think Mandalay might change their hotel name? It will forever be tainted.

Maybe, but as with all Vegas Strip hotels, it's pretty iconic as it is. Could call it something else but it will always be referred to as Mandalay Bay and known for the massacre. It's also a pretty iconic building, so even those unfamiliar with it before Sunday are probably well aware of what it looks like now and will instinctively label it Mandalay Bay even if it was rebranded further down the line.

I wonder what the future holds for it? It's part of MGM Resorts so its got some pretty big sibling hotels....

Teddy was bang on the money.

I'd not seen it clarified but then saw an interview this morning saying the hotel security guard had identified the room 10 minutes after the first shot. He was shot at and injured but alerted the relevant people of where the gunfire was coming from.

The shooting had then stopped, so the SWAT team took their time to evacuate the surrounding rooms and close off the area before blowing down the door of the gunman's room.

I'd say that is a pretty swift response to a very unique and dangerous situation.

Agreed. It's remarkably quick, all things considered.



22:05

First shots fired by Paddock

22:12

Officers reach 31st floor and report gunfire coming from floor above


22:15

Last shots fired into the concert crowd

 

My thoughts exactly.




Awful post imo. What chance has anyone got when someone wants to lob a few grenades about? We can't have secret service on every table. This is a ridiculous incident by a nutjob individual and the only thing your post will do is give some other nutter an idea if they so fancied!

as an aside, a little snap shot into life in america a little tale my dad told me last night.

my dad sold life craft equipment and often went to america where he would entertain their defence contractors and other suppliers / customers. he's a very chatty laid back fella my dad, he falls into conversations with anyone who piques his interest and he's very disarming. he picks up firends everywhere - eg the new security guard at his local shop has promised to take him to wembley if leeds get there via the play-offs this year, he's met my dad about ten times in the shop.

anyway my dad was in america and he was sat in the hotel lobby. he was sat next to a fella who came from a very small, very religious town. he said it was a beautiful place and he should come with him to see it. a about an hour or so drive. my dad agreed and they drove to this lovely little town and went to a bar. this is where it gets weird. the chap tells my dad he'll need a gun to enter the bar, and that he has a spare gun for him. they wont allow people without guns into the bar, and they dont really like people in the town to not carry -  they says its a much safer place if everyone knows everyone else has a gun. so this perfect stranger hands my dad a loaded gun and they go drinking together in this hick bar - and my dad knows every single person  - no matter how drunk or rowdy - is in possesion of a loaded gun.

Pics or it didn't happen.

Quite the cover story

Awful post because you think that me putting words on the internet might inspire someone to carry out these acts? That would suggest we need secret service at every table. I didn't suggest that because quite obviously its a ludicrous suggestion.

I merely posted that Vegas is one of the perfect places for large scale destruction crime such as mass shooting or bombing and perhaps an insight to why the wsop could be a target. Not an awful post, but definitely an awful thing to think about.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLUIo9EXoAE1-Em.jpg)

think this is a brilliant piece of work

Not even religion and atheism https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/05/upshot/gun-ownership-partisan-divide.html

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLZI5YCUQAU8nrl.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=945&v=b7GZ1RawlLo

Some interesting footage I'd not seen before. Sounds like you can hear the windows being shot out about 20/30 seconds before the rounds start raining down. Also, about 5 mins in, incredible to hear the bullets whizzing past the camera when you consider how far away Mandalay Bay is in the background.