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Community Forums => Betting Tips and Sport Discussion => Topic started by: TightEnd on November 16, 2017, 11:20:13 AM



Title: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on November 16, 2017, 11:20:13 AM
A quick guide to the World Cup 2018 draw

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/nov/16/world-cup-russia-power-rankings-32-qualifiers

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DOvpINMX4AAVfei.jpg)

the best England could hope for is?

the worst is?

feel free to say "go away, its too early/i don't care/we are going to disappoint again"


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: AndrewT on November 16, 2017, 11:50:33 AM
Germany/Nigeria and, based on Tuesday night's performance, Denmark would be pretty bad.

Despite the huge potential for embarrassing lols I'd quite like to see an Ashes World Cup match.


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: Sheriff Fatman on November 16, 2017, 01:09:43 PM
Best:

Poland, England, Iran, Panama

Worst:
Germany, England, Senegal, South Korea
or
Brazil, England, Sweden, Nigeria

I think all of those are feasible within the confederation limitations.


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: Nakor on November 16, 2017, 01:31:26 PM
Germany/Nigeria and, based on Tuesday night's performance, Denmark would be pretty bad.

Despite the huge potential for embarrassing lols I'd quite like to see an Ashes World Cup match.

I think if drawn against a Euro side in Pot 1 we can't get a Euro side from Pot 3 and 4?

Best

Poland/Iran/South Korea

Worst

Brazil/Denmark/Nigeria

Guess there is an argument for taking Brazil or Germany in the group as you could still qualify and then would avoid a rematch until the final, should England make it that far.


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: bergeroo on November 16, 2017, 02:09:07 PM
Surely Russia is a far better draw than Poland, they look pretty awful despite being at home...


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: AndrewT on November 16, 2017, 02:43:16 PM
Germany/Nigeria and, based on Tuesday night's performance, Denmark would be pretty bad.

Despite the huge potential for embarrassing lols I'd quite like to see an Ashes World Cup match.

I think if drawn against a Euro side in Pot 1 we can't get a Euro side from Pot 3 and 4?

Ah yes - there can't be 3 European teams in the same group.


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: flushthemout on November 16, 2017, 04:08:25 PM
How did Russia get in group 1 is it because they are the host nation?


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: flushthemout on November 16, 2017, 04:10:28 PM
Pre World Cup A trip to Amsterdam travelling Friday am staying over with the lad return Saturday.


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: Ironside on November 16, 2017, 04:37:24 PM
How did Russia get in group 1 is it because they are the host nation?

yeah hosts always gets in a group that gives them there matches in there national stadium


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: KarmaDope on November 16, 2017, 04:47:10 PM
If we take the same, tired old team it doesn't matter, we've not got a chance in hell.

If we take a chance and take a lot of the team that played well against Brazil this week, then Poland, Iran, Panama our best shot.


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: Sheriff Fatman on November 16, 2017, 04:57:57 PM
Surely Russia is a far better draw than Poland, they look pretty awful despite being at home...

Home nations in the World Cup generally up their game, regardless of form though.  I'd much prefer Poland compared to Russia in their home stadium.

And that's before taking into account the inevitable carnage between the fans and the subsequent headlines about football hooliganism dominating the tournament.


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: AndrewT on November 16, 2017, 05:15:31 PM
Surely Russia is a far better draw than Poland, they look pretty awful despite being at home...

Home nations in the World Cup generally up their game, regardless of form though.  I'd much prefer Poland compared to Russia in their home stadium.

And that's before taking into account the inevitable carnage between the fans and the subsequent headlines about football hooliganism dominating the tournament.

Also need to keep an eye out for any referees in the Russian games who suddenly start driving around in brand new Ferraris.


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: Ironside on November 16, 2017, 05:45:16 PM
i am looking forward to the we didn't qualify so we are going to have our own tourny in the USA just hope Scotland get an invite cause i fancy a party


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: teddybloat on November 16, 2017, 07:51:15 PM
warm balls


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: Woodsey on November 16, 2017, 07:59:00 PM
I plan to be at the next World Cup that matters....Japan 2019  ;danafish;


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: dino1980 on November 17, 2017, 12:52:38 AM
When looking at the match schedule I noticed that A1 v A2, B1 v B2 etc are part of the opening round of matches in each pool. So that means the supposed two best teams in each group face each other in the first group match, all of which take place over the first five days. With first group games historically containing the fewest goals, as teams play not to lose, I suspect it’s going to mean a bunch of tight snoozefests as the teams from pot two will park the bus and play for a point or to pinch it on the break, as they know they’ve got two ‘easier’ games to go.


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: Ironside on November 17, 2017, 02:10:39 AM
When looking at the match schedule I noticed that A1 v A2, B1 v B2 etc are part of the opening round of matches in each pool. So that means the supposed two best teams in each group face each other in the first group match, all of which take place over the first five days. With first group games historically containing the fewest goals, as teams play not to lose, I suspect it’s going to mean a bunch of tight snoozefests as the teams from pot two will park the bus and play for a point or to pinch it on the break, as they know they’ve got two ‘easier’ games to go.

if i remember correctly they draw for slot in the group once they have drawn for the group

for example england gets drawn into group A-H then into slot 1-4 (depending which are still free)


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: dino1980 on November 17, 2017, 12:54:13 PM
Thanks Iron, that would make more sense.


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: Graham C on December 01, 2017, 03:46:21 PM
England in with Belgium so far.  Cheeky comment from Lineker to Maradona about being good with his hands.

Slow process this World Cup drawing.


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: TightEnd on December 01, 2017, 03:48:46 PM
Portugal v Spain first group game

can i back 0-0 yet?


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: TightEnd on December 01, 2017, 03:50:19 PM
Belgium, England, Tunisia.....

Tunisia first up in Volgagrad,17 June 8pm. All police leave cancelled


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: Graham C on December 01, 2017, 03:52:22 PM
We run good in the draw


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: TightEnd on December 01, 2017, 03:54:42 PM
Nigeria get Argentina again!

5 world cup finals out of 6


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: TightEnd on December 01, 2017, 03:55:39 PM
Belgium, Tunisia, England, Panama

In advance of the inevitable humiliation, couldn't have been much better!


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: TightEnd on December 01, 2017, 03:57:20 PM
24th Panama in Nizhny Novgorov (one of the your travel agent,submarine base and shipyard iirc)

28th Belgium Kalinigrad


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: TightEnd on December 01, 2017, 04:00:22 PM
Group A: 🇷🇺 🇸🇦 🇪🇬 🇺🇾
Group: B 🇵🇹 🇪🇸 🇲🇦 🇮🇷
Group C: 🇫🇷 🇦🇺 🇵🇪 🇩🇰
Group D: 🇦🇷 🇮🇸 🇭🇷 🇳🇬
Group E: 🇧🇷 🇨🇭 🇨🇷 🇷🇸
Group F: 🇩🇪 🇲🇽 🇸🇪 🇰🇷
Group G: 🇧🇪 🇵🇦 🇹🇳 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧
 Group H: 🇵🇱 🇸🇳 🇨🇴 🇯🇵


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: TightEnd on December 01, 2017, 04:01:25 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DP-P-4bW0AEW5bx.jpg)


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: arbboy on December 01, 2017, 04:01:45 PM
Uruguay the big winners on the draw.


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: TightEnd on December 01, 2017, 04:03:48 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DP-P5GWWsAIHeHL.jpg)

iirc 1 in A gets 2 in B and so on

so we finish 2nd in G (say) we'd get the winner of Poland's group

or go home


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: Tal on December 02, 2017, 08:48:49 PM
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/russias-group-is-the-easiest-in-modern-world-cup-history/amp/



Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: Marky147 on December 02, 2017, 10:11:32 PM
Might see some knockout action in Vegas, and not just at the UFC.


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: POWWWWWWWW on December 02, 2017, 10:22:09 PM
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/russias-group-is-the-easiest-in-modern-world-cup-history/amp/



Seems like a wasted effort to rig a draw for an easy group when you're the worst team in the whole tournament.


Title: Re: The world cup draw
Post by: TightEnd on December 05, 2017, 09:53:50 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQNrTWlWAAAuDLo.jpg)


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on May 15, 2018, 05:05:31 PM
bump

England squad announcement

other squads

the tournament, betting on it, etc etc


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on May 15, 2018, 05:07:13 PM
"Manchester City ace Fabian Delph set for shock England World Cup 2018 call-up but Arsenal's Jack Wilshere is snubbed" says the Mirror

not sure Delph is a shock (played much of the season for the champions,positional flexibility) ot Wilshere is a snub (hasn't played uch, to a great standard,often injured)


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on May 15, 2018, 05:08:05 PM
Hart also excluded, which is consistent with previous pronouncements on form and club selection


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on May 15, 2018, 05:30:04 PM
Very very good from Southgate so far

Hart if he isn't your number one which he really cant be should not go to be a number three. Personally would like to see a very young keeper like Walton at Brighton, Gunn at Norwich (Man City) or Woodman at Aberdeen (Newcastle). The number three is at least 50/1 to play any part in any game unless used when already out when it wont matter anyway.

Lookman would be my wild card over Sancho but would not be adverse to taking both, again the fringe players unlikely to play,but both very confident both in very good form and I like the fact they have refused to sit and collect the money in the best league in the world on the bench and gone and proven themselves if they needed to in a very good league.



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Karabiner on May 15, 2018, 06:32:55 PM
"Manchester City ace Fabian Delph set for shock England World Cup 2018 call-up but Arsenal's Jack Wilshere is snubbed" says the Mirror

not sure Delph is a shock (played much of the season for the champions,positional flexibility) ot Wilshere is a snub (hasn't played uch, to a great standard,often injured)

Jack's had an okay season for Arsenal this season with 38 appearances and has been virtually injury-free, certainly compared to previous years.

He's had some very good games but has been a little inconsistent - he offers a certain creativity which not too many English midfielders do.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him in the squad.

<edit>
It looks as though he's already received the dreaded call of shame from GS.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: kp24 on May 15, 2018, 07:55:41 PM
"Manchester City ace Fabian Delph set for shock England World Cup 2018 call-up but Arsenal's Jack Wilshere is snubbed" says the Mirror

not sure Delph is a shock (played much of the season for the champions,positional flexibility) ot Wilshere is a snub (hasn't played uch, to a great standard,often injured)

Jack's had an okay season for Arsenal this season with 38 appearances and has been virtually injury-free, certainly compared to previous years.

He's had some very good games but has been a little inconsistent - he offers a certain creativity which not too many English midfielders do.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him in the squad.

<edit>
It looks as though he's already received the dreaded call of shame from GS.

Because we are so woefully short in midfield I’d have taken a punt on jack but I can understand why you wouldn’t take him with his injury record,I thought he’d take Hart for experience but glad he’s going to take Pope well deserved


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Cavey007 on May 15, 2018, 08:08:14 PM
Apparently Livermore is going to be in over Wiltshire shelvey etc...

Which is silly to me. But he's also 1/2 to be called up still


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: toddswain on May 15, 2018, 08:49:26 PM
Absolutely ridiculous Shelvey isn’t going (going off reports/odds)



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: dino1980 on May 15, 2018, 09:40:12 PM
Newcastle fans seem to love Shelvey whilst no one else really does, would like to know from those who watch him most often why he should go.

As far as I can tell he'd play as part of the double-pivot in a 4-2-3-1 or as a DCM/CM in a 3-5-2. He's lax defensively - as detailed vs B'Mouth away this season - has just three assists this season and one goal. I realise his game is about more than that, but he doesn't have that much end product, just 0.1 expected assists p90 and 0.09 xGp90.

The biggest reason that I wouldn't take him though is I think he wastes a space in the squad that can be better filled. He realistically isn't going to start and I can't imagine a scenario when we'd need him off the bench. He's not going to be an impact substitute and Delph/Livermore/Jones would probably be ahead of him if we were looking to protect a lead.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on May 15, 2018, 09:44:27 PM
I think Lascelles, very under-rated, is more deserving. unlikely to go as Jones/Cahill/Smalling/the old guard (pick any two) go ahead of him alongside stones/maguire and maybe tarkowski

Shelvey isn't going to track back and win the ball when we lose possession and we don't play to his strengths (range of passing) going forward

also have to consider what he'd be like as a non playing squad member. not the most clubbable of characters i gather


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: dino1980 on May 15, 2018, 10:07:16 PM
Agree re: Lascelles being more unfortunate to miss out. He seems to be a terrific man marker. I haven’t seen enough of him to know how comfortable he is on the ball, but his pass completion % in the PL this season is just 77% so perhaps that counts against him. That % is lower than anyone who is likely to be in the squad and even Smalling has 88% completion and he’s the fall guy on this metric.

If England set up with a back three then perhaps also his ability to defend in wide areas counts against him? Walker, Jones, Maguire all have experience as fullbacks. Losing Gomez to injury is potentially a bigger blow than it looks for Southgate’s ability to set up in the recently favoured 3-5-2.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on May 16, 2018, 06:08:06 AM
I'd either take shelvey and play him or not take him at all. As others have said not sure him being 4th choice is anygood for anyone.

The importance of the essentially non playing players can't be underestimated. Been reading some good stuff about how Brazil 94 squad players were based more on mental abilities rhan footballing ones. Which makes sense.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on May 16, 2018, 02:48:16 PM
GK: Butland, Pickford, Pope;

DF: Alexander-Arnold, Cahill, Jones, Walker, Stones, Maguire, Trippier, Rose, Young

MF: Dier, Alli, Lingard, Henderson, Delph, Loftus-Cheek;

FW: Vardy, Rashford, Sterling, Welbeck, Kane

Standby: Lallana, Heaton, Tarkowski, Cook, Livemore


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Pompeynick on May 16, 2018, 03:00:22 PM
A little disappointed with the selections of Cahill and Welbeck. Both have been to tournaments before and have been found wanting.
Cahill very uncomfortable on the ball , i would have had anyone over him.
I am always surprised when Welbeck actually scores, he works hard, I will give him that, But I would have taken Lallana , even if half fit, or maybe the young lad at Fulham for experience.
All about opinions so feel free to disagree
Nick


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on May 16, 2018, 04:07:34 PM
First England world cup squad where I've never heard of some of them. Not a bad thing necessarily at all


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: kp24 on May 16, 2018, 04:25:40 PM
A little disappointed with the selections of Cahill and Welbeck. Both have been to tournaments before and have been found wanting.
Cahill very uncomfortable on the ball , i would have had anyone over him.
I am always surprised when Welbeck actually scores, he works hard, I will give him that, But I would have taken Lallana , even if half fit, or maybe the young lad at Fulham for experience.
All about opinions so feel free to disagree
Nick

As much I love lallana you can’t take he’s basically been injured for 12 months I agree on Cahill but think he’s only had a chance because of Gomez’s injury,I’d have taken a chance on wilsheres fitness myself as we could do with a passer in midfield but that’s only due to a lack of options so he would have been lucky to go.Welbeck again goes again because of a lack of alternatives and he can play out wide too if needed.Theres no way on earth I’d have taken either delph or young feel so sorry for betrand missing out as although rose is the best left back he’s hardly been fit or played he’s lost out to utility players.Glad he’s made a big call on hart needed to be done I’m little surprised to see Trent going myself massive talent not sure he’s quite learned the ropes defensively but I’m sure he will.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Graham C on May 16, 2018, 04:32:41 PM
Can't do any worse than our last few big tournies.  Good luck to them!


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: bergeroo on May 16, 2018, 04:54:25 PM
six full backs?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on May 16, 2018, 05:01:36 PM
Cahill has averaged nearly 90% passing completion all the time he has been at Chelsea, including 89% this season.

The stat is almost meaningless though tbh but he is not "uncomfortable on the ball"


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: POWWWWWWWW on May 16, 2018, 06:09:55 PM
Taking Rose and not Sessegnon is ridiculous. Rose has barely played this season, offers nothing different to Trippier, can’t take set pieces like Young and doesn’t offer a goal scoring threat like Sessegnon.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: hhyftrftdr on May 16, 2018, 06:32:42 PM
A little disappointed with the selections of Cahill and Welbeck. Both have been to tournaments before and have been found wanting.
Cahill very uncomfortable on the ball , i would have had anyone over him.
I am always surprised when Welbeck actually scores, he works hard, I will give him that, But I would have taken Lallana , even if half fit, or maybe the young lad at Fulham for experience.
All about opinions so feel free to disagree
Nick

As much I love lallana you can’t take he’s basically been injured for 12 months I agree on Cahill but think he’s only had a chance because of Gomez’s injury,I’d have taken a chance on wilsheres fitness myself as we could do with a passer in midfield but that’s only due to a lack of options so he would have been lucky to go.Welbeck again goes again because of a lack of alternatives and he can play out wide too if needed.Theres no way on earth I’d have taken either delph or young feel so sorry for betrand missing out as although rose is the best left back he’s hardly been fit or played he’s lost out to utility players.Glad he’s made a big call on hart needed to be done I’m little surprised to see Trent going myself massive talent not sure he’s quite learned the ropes defensively but I’m sure he will.

This is a bizarre opinion.

Delph has been a revelation this season and comfortably one of the best left backs in the league (despite not being a natural) He's not looked out of place in what has been a very talented City team and fully deserves his inclusion in the squad. Throw in his positional versatility and it was a no brainer for Southgate.

Bertrand has had a poor season in a very poor Southampton team, would've been absurd to select him ahead of Delph.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Karabiner on May 16, 2018, 07:13:00 PM
Taking Rose and not Sessegnon is ridiculous. Rose has barely played this season, offers nothing different to Trippier, can’t take set pieces like Young and doesn’t offer a goal scoring threat like Sessegnon.

I'm not sure that it's just fitness that has kept Rose out of the spuds team since he went public in the gutter press about them being on pauper's wages.

He's a dirty little fkr but definitely has talent, and is clearly the best left-back in that squad ahead of the two converted midfielders Delph and Young.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Tal on May 16, 2018, 07:30:52 PM
Taking Rose and not Sessegnon is ridiculous. Rose has barely played this season, offers nothing different to Trippier, can’t take set pieces like Young and doesn’t offer a goal scoring threat like Sessegnon.

I'm not sure that it's just fitness that has kept Rose out of the spuds team since he went public in the gutter press about them being on pauper's wages.

He's a dirty little fkr but definitely has talent, and is clearly the best left-back in that squad ahead of the two converted midfielders Delph and Young.

He wasn't fit when he came back either. Has definitely worked in training and looked back to race trim on Sunday.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: pleno1 on May 16, 2018, 07:59:53 PM
Cahill has averaged nearly 90% passing completion all the time he has been at Chelsea, including 89% this season.

The stat is almost meaningless though tbh but he is not "uncomfortable on the ball"

he passes to Azpi and lets him try and penetrate


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on May 16, 2018, 08:11:49 PM
Loving this England squad.   I was a big Southgate doubter, but he seems to ger most things right and gives youth a chance and doesn't go for sentimental picks.  Fabian Delph seems a better pick than Ashley Young, and just don't see what people's issue is with him.  

My contract is up end of May and really not looking hard for a replacement.  Don't let me down boys.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: 4KSuited on May 16, 2018, 08:50:14 PM
There's so much more to selecting players for a squad than individual playing records for their employers. I get the feeling that Southgate is a manager who has built so much more into the selection process than most of his predecessors - although tbh I think his task has been made easier by the very low expectations of the media and public & the resulting absence of pressure to choose players he has preferred to leave out.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Cavey007 on May 16, 2018, 10:36:50 PM
Sessegnon has had a great year...

In the second tier of English football. I hope Fulham go up and keep hold of him as 8 believe that's best for his career. But no way he should be 8n this squad.

I do think Lallana should be. I'm hoping that standby list is in order and he's first up when 9ne of them inevitably gets injured.

Delph deserves it. Even if just for his flexibility.

I'd have Carroll on the standby list, he at least offers something different up top, but admittedly has hardly played this season.

I can't stay Lingard or Well beck. But they seem to find themselves in the right position at the eight time somehow.

England aren't in a position to win the world Cup, I think we're a top 10/15 team and that's likely where we'll end up, I also personally don't think we're good enough to play the possession style of football that we seem to try now but the media said we should copy Spain when they were successful so here we are.

I do trust Southgate though I like how boring he comes across, he doesn't seem to care too much which probably makes him a better man manager


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: bergeroo on May 17, 2018, 12:07:37 AM
Lingard has had some very good moments this season in a United team which seems to stifle creativity. Certainly deserves his place in the squad. I do wonder why you need Welbeck when you also have Rashford? Don't really see the need to have them both. Lallana is a different kind of player to all three. He's the victim of the decision to select the squad now instead of after the two friendlies as he could have played his way in.

Ox is a big miss for his versatility if nothing else.

Presumably planning to play Delph in midfield as he already has Rose and Young. On the right side we have Trippier, TAA so Walker will be in the back three?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on May 17, 2018, 07:02:44 AM
Not to late for Mike Williamson surely ? ;)


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: DungBeetle on May 17, 2018, 07:29:58 AM
With the squad we have last 16 would be expected finish and quarter final would be an good run.  Our midfield is really substandard.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: pleno1 on May 17, 2018, 09:44:13 AM
Lingard has had some very good moments this season in a United team which seems to stifle creativity. Certainly deserves his place in the squad. I do wonder why you need Welbeck when you also have Rashford? Don't really see the need to have them both. Lallana is a different kind of player to all three. He's the victim of the decision to select the squad now instead of after the two friendlies as he could have played his way in.

Ox is a big miss for his versatility if nothing else.

Presumably planning to play Delph in midfield as he already has Rose and Young. On the right side we have Trippier, TAA so Walker will be in the back three?

Welbeck is a defensive forward, completely different to Rashford. If we're winning 1-0 vs France he will track back a lot better and hold the ball up a lot better than Rashford/Sterling etc, he offers something they all don't.

Mike Williamson 4 years ago was bette than Cahill now, the guy is an absolute disaster. In reality Mike Williamson was same as Tarkowski, Ben Mee etc. Starting English defender in an over achieving team challenging for European spots, because he played for Newcastle he won't get a shout same as Shelvey and Lascelles who are both pretty clearly deserving of a place in the squad.



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: pleno1 on May 17, 2018, 09:52:39 AM
So how are we actually likely to set up? I see a lot of people saying Henderson/Dier will play together but I doubt that tbh.

I think it will be


  --------Pickford----------

----walker stones Harry m----

Trippier      Henderson             Rose

           Lingard        Delph

                     Sterling

                      Kane

Would he really play Alli in Delph role? Harry M replaced by Dier maybe??


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on May 17, 2018, 10:26:26 AM
He won't but i would love to see him play Kane in behind Vardy for games where we know we won't have possession and will be on the counter (Belgium, any of the big boys in the knockout stages)

If he sticks with 3 centre backs its

3-4-2-1 yes?

two holding midfielders..Henderson and Dier

two wing backs

and Alli/Sterling supporting Kane


eg


                Pickford

        Walker Stones Maguire

    Trippier Henderson Dier Rose

                Alli Sterling

                  Kane


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on May 17, 2018, 10:49:38 AM
Not sure I agree that the midfield is weak

Henderson has been one of the best players in the champions league knockout stages this season, Ali would get into most starting teams here and Dier is a rare breed an intelligent thinker who doesn't hide and can adapt for himself in game


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on May 17, 2018, 10:54:49 AM
Brilliant interview with Chalobah on the latest Totally Football Italian.

Talks about how much he learnt being at Napoli, learnt more than playing full seasons in the champ. First time he was introduced to set piece routines when to press and any tactical work in his career which shows how valuable these young players going abroad can be.

Watching Hamsik and Jorginho every day following how they moved on the pitch, shows in Dier the way he plays after his Sporting spell and hopefully will show in Sancho, Lookman et al when they breakthrough.

Also he mentioned how the training ground and facilities were worse than every Champ side he went on loan to and miles away from Chelsea.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on May 17, 2018, 04:18:33 PM
Ashley Young is the first player called Young to be the oldest player in a World Cup squad since Choi Young-il in 1998


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: pleno1 on May 17, 2018, 04:58:04 PM
He won't but i would love to see him play Kane in behind Vardy for games where we know we won't have possession and will be on the counter (Belgium, any of the big boys in the knockout stages)

If he sticks with 3 centre backs its

3-4-2-1 yes?

two holding midfielders..Henderson and Dier

two wing backs

and Alli/Sterling supporting Kane


eg


                Pickford

        Walker Stones Maguire

    Trippier Henderson Dier Rose

                Alli Sterling

                  Kane

He played one pivot DM and then two box to box midfielders (Lingard and Ox) I don't think he will play Dier/Henderson together, its pointless.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on May 19, 2018, 06:50:17 PM
Imagine watching this cup final and telling someone Cahill isnt good enough for England anymore and/or good enough on the ball

no chance


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: hhyftrftdr on May 19, 2018, 08:59:59 PM
Was a dire final.

Both teams are a million miles behind the best club teams in the world.


Title: World cup
Post by: nirvana on June 18, 2018, 09:51:58 PM
Couldn't see a thread for the world cup.

Haven't watched much so far, a half a match here and there.

Enjoyed England's performance tonight even though I started to get a familiar sinking feeling with 15 mins to go.

Thought Maguire looked the part and there was a lot of positive performances (if fairly average, given the opposition). Still, average performances by England are so much better than the turgid crap delivered by so many past England sides which had a lot more experienced and notionally world class players.

Feel like Jordan Henderson is overrated although I like his effort and his demeanour - I guess if he didn't play then Dire would be in so it's a bonus he starts. Feels like we're perhaps just short of a top class midfielder to have any lasting impact but pleased for Southgate and good to enjoy an England game


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Cf on June 19, 2018, 07:02:58 AM
I’m biased but each time I saw Henderson on the ball I just wished it was Shelvey.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on June 21, 2018, 08:52:55 PM
Commentator in the French game made a great point as the game entered the 76th minute.

He'd been looking at all the results so far and worked out that 17% of goals so far had come in the last 15 mins of games.

Pretty interesting and glad he shared


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: celtic on June 22, 2018, 11:06:54 AM
Commentator in the French game made a great point as the game entered the 76th minute.

He'd been looking at all the results so far and worked out that 17% of goals so far had come in the last 15 mins of games.

Pretty interesting and glad he shared

Amazing stat. Can't believe I missed that!


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Sheriff Fatman on June 22, 2018, 12:19:14 PM
Commentator in the French game made a great point as the game entered the 76th minute.

He'd been looking at all the results so far and worked out that 17% of goals so far had come in the last 15 mins of games.

Pretty interesting and glad he shared

 ;applause; ;applause; ;applause; ;applause; ;applause;


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: RED-DOG on June 22, 2018, 01:16:59 PM
Nigeria v Iceland. My daughter said it will be like watching chess.

It took me a while....


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on June 22, 2018, 03:09:10 PM
Coming round to VAR watching how it's been implemented in this world cup versus the farcical introduction in the UK.

Decisions are quick, it's obvious what's going on and the ref going off to have a look works OK. In the end, still down to the quality of the ref on the pitch which seems about right

Impressed by the ref in the Brazil game reversing his pen decision


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: bergeroo on June 22, 2018, 10:23:13 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgUkX2gXkAEjQAU.jpg:large)


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: dino1980 on June 23, 2018, 03:38:41 AM
Interesting that five of the top six in the betting at the start of the World Cup could end up on the same side of the draw. The opposite side to England if we get out of the group in second place.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: kukushkin88 on June 23, 2018, 02:37:41 PM
Great chart, thanks for posting. There have to be angles we can exploit here. England to win the group looks good with the high likelihood Belgium rest their good players looking for the favourable side of the draw. 5/2 is good, now to find someone with a clean and functioning PP account. There are clear scenarios, that will have played out by the time of the game, where throwing the game will make sense.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: dino1980 on June 23, 2018, 03:34:41 PM
Why wouldn’t England do the same though? No guarantee we beat Panama, but if we do then unless we beat Panama by six clear goals then England will need to beat Belgium to win the group.

It’s also highly unlikely either manager instructs their team to throw the game, in my opinion, even if second is the more favourable route. Perhaps the better angle is to back Mexico (they were 40/1 when I did so last night). If they win their group their route would be Switzerland, England/Group H winner, Spain/Croatia ( also could be Portugal or Uruguay) depending on who wins Group B/runner-up Group A.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: kukushkin88 on June 23, 2018, 03:43:06 PM
Why wouldn’t England do the same though? No guarantee we beat Panama, but if we do then unless we beat Panama by six clear goals then England will need to beat Belgium to win the group.

It’s also highly unlikely either manager instructs their team to throw the game, in my opinion, even if second is the more favourable route. Perhaps the better angle is to back Mexico (they were 40/1 when I did so last night). If they win their group their route would be Switzerland, England/Group H winner, Spain/Croatia ( also could be Portugal or Uruguay) depending on who wins Group B/runner-up Group A.

It’s only that we get 5/2 rather than 7/10. We should always take the bigger price looking to exploit an angle like this. I also think it’s fair to say Belgium have more to protect by resting players. Kane imo, remains the only England player where there is a critical drop off if he is hurt/suspended.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: RED-DOG on June 23, 2018, 05:00:13 PM
That soft, whispery 'look how calm and logical I am' voice of Martin O'Neill. He sounds like a social worker.  ;grr;


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: kukushkin88 on June 23, 2018, 05:42:13 PM
Why wouldn’t England do the same though? No guarantee we beat Panama, but if we do then unless we beat Panama by six clear goals then England will need to beat Belgium to win the group.

It’s also highly unlikely either manager instructs their team to throw the game, in my opinion, even if second is the more favourable route. Perhaps the better angle is to back Mexico (they were 40/1 when I did so last night). If they win their group their route would be Switzerland, England/Group H winner, Spain/Croatia ( also could be Portugal or Uruguay) depending on who wins Group B/runner-up Group A.

It’s only that we get 5/2 rather than 7/10. We should always take the bigger price looking to exploit an angle like this. I also think it’s fair to say Belgium have more to protect by resting players. Kane imo, remains the only England player where there is a critical drop off if he is hurt/suspended.

For clarity, the ‘always take the bigger price’ applies to the ‘team might manipulate a result for a better path to the final’ angle, not to the Mexico were value at 40/1 with the draw looking like it’ll open up for them (even better spot now :-) This is probably pretty obvious I guess but no harm in clarifying.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: HutchGF on June 23, 2018, 05:43:53 PM
Look handy these Mexicans.

Going to have a little bit of the 40/1 with the draw opening up as highlighted earlier.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: RED-DOG on June 24, 2018, 08:52:25 AM
Germany's goal though...

Wow!

Has there ever been a better goal scored at a more dramatic moment?



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on June 24, 2018, 10:30:28 AM
Germany's goal though...

Wow!

Has there ever been a better goal scored at a more dramatic moment?

Reminiscent of Beckham vs Greece. Steely brilliance just like the goal yesterday

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo5y3Ydyhtc


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on June 24, 2018, 04:07:39 PM
Possible route if we lose against Belgium:
R16: Japan/Senegal
QF: Mexico
SF: Portugal/Croatia

Possible route of England WIN the group:
R16: Japan/Senegal/Poland/Colombia
QF: Brazil/Germany
SF: France/Spain

how do you play it? if Belgium might rotate a lot to think the same way, how does it play out?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: kukushkin88 on June 24, 2018, 04:44:11 PM
Possible route if we lose against Belgium:
R16: Japan/Senegal
QF: Mexico
SF: Portugal/Croatia

Possible route of England WIN the group:
R16: Japan/Senegal/Poland/Colombia
QF: Brazil/Germany
SF: France/Spain

how do you play it? if Belgium might rotate a lot to think the same way, how does it play out?

England will play it straight I think, I don’t know about Belgium but surely they rest the superstars. It’s the best chance either nation will get for a very long time. IMO Belgium are more likely to do the savvy thing.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on June 24, 2018, 07:44:31 PM
I think this World Cup might be my favourite already. Deece football in so many games and atmo at most games seems great.

Was slow into it but will miss it when it's gone


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: teddybloat on June 24, 2018, 09:36:13 PM
world cups are always great.

but yeah this is shaping up. boss kits with some nice retro touches [germany and nigeria, take a bow], stadiums thrown up in towns not even mapped a few years ago, whipping boys, star turns, utter star failures and mad runs in the groups by rando african / asian and south american sides.

just needs the bbc to step up again with their end of tournament montage. they are nearly always good [cast '96 anyone], but last year's will take some topping


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: hhyftrftdr on June 24, 2018, 11:59:50 PM
world cups are always great.

but yeah this is shaping up. boss kits with some nice retro touches [germany and nigeria, take a bow], stadiums thrown up in towns not even mapped a few years ago, whipping boys, star turns, utter star failures and mad runs in the groups by rando african / asian and south american sides.

just needs the bbc to step up again with their end of tournament montage. they are nearly always good [cast '96 anyone], but last year's will take some topping

Didn't they play Chasing Rainbows on Englands exit and then Walkaway for the tournament end credits montage?

What a time to have been alive.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: bergeroo on June 25, 2018, 10:01:01 PM
update from Ben Mayhew's model on twitter @experimental361

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgkJxzpWAAEucPL.jpg)


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on June 26, 2018, 11:55:43 AM
- There have been 19 penalties taken at the 2018 World Cup 🏆, more than in any other edition in the history of the competition. VAR


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: marcro on June 26, 2018, 01:33:02 PM
- There have been 19 penalties taken at the 2018 World Cup 🏆, more than in any other edition in the history of the competition. VAR

If the referees enforced the rule preventing grappling/wrestling in the penalty area in previous World Cups I am guessing it would be the same.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: cambridgealex on June 26, 2018, 05:47:09 PM
update from Ben Mayhew's model on twitter @experimental361

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgkJxzpWAAEucPL.jpg)

Assume not the same Ben Mayhew that plays(ed) poker?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: bagel on June 26, 2018, 07:17:31 PM
great goal for messi

that shot of maradona in the crowd looked like he was possessed , or off his chops again


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: HutchGF on June 26, 2018, 08:52:54 PM
great goal for messi

that shot of maradona in the crowd looked like he was possessed , or off his chops again

I particularly enjoyed his middle finger salute after the Rojo goal...........


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: RED-DOG on June 26, 2018, 08:58:56 PM
great goal for messi

that shot of maradona in the crowd looked like he was possessed , or off his chops again

I particularly enjoyed his middle finger salute after the Rojo goal...........


I enjoyed him trying to clap and being unable to make one hand hit the other.

Well not really, I thought it was quite sad.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Cavey007 on June 26, 2018, 09:03:40 PM
great goal for messi

that shot of maradona in the crowd looked like he was possessed , or off his chops again

I particularly enjoyed his middle finger salute after the Rojo goal...........


I enjoyed him trying to clap and being unable to make one hand hit the other.

Well not really, I thought it was quite sad.

That was quite disturbing really.

The celebration before that though, was brilliant, he's obviously been getting shit off people all day, fair play for giving it back


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on June 28, 2018, 08:44:39 AM
If we win or draw we are on same side of draw as:

Uruguay, Portugal, France, Argentina, Brazil, Mexico

If we lose tomorrow or draw and get loads of yellow cards:

Switzerland, Sweden,then Croatia, Denmark, Spain & Russia



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on June 28, 2018, 08:45:30 AM
Optimal strategy - play absolute all out attack, not much defence - risk losing - as losing has big consolations, but if we do win, try to get big confidence boosting one rather than scraped.?
 
If we’re drawing, also remember get a few bookings. Shirts off after goal etc.

or simply see where Colombia finish and look to avoid them?

or just win and don't try to game it?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Woodsey on June 28, 2018, 08:52:20 AM
Optimal strategy - play absolute all out attack, not much defence - risk losing - as losing has big consolations, but if we do win, try to get big confidence boosting one rather than scraped.?
 
If we’re drawing, also remember get a few bookings. Shirts off after goal etc.

or simply see where Colombia finish and look to avoid them?

or just win and don't try to game it?

Do it the hard way and smash everyone!


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on June 28, 2018, 09:25:23 AM
Optimal strategy - play absolute all out attack, not much defence - risk losing - as losing has big consolations, but if we do win, try to get big confidence boosting one rather than scraped.?
 
If we’re drawing, also remember get a few bookings. Shirts off after goal etc.

or simply see where Colombia finish and look to avoid them?

or just win and don't try to game it?

Do it the hard way and smash everyone!

Surprised to see a Brexiteer choosing to make things harder than they need to be.   



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Woodsey on June 28, 2018, 09:50:34 AM
Optimal strategy - play absolute all out attack, not much defence - risk losing - as losing has big consolations, but if we do win, try to get big confidence boosting one rather than scraped.?
 
If we’re drawing, also remember get a few bookings. Shirts off after goal etc.

or simply see where Colombia finish and look to avoid them?

or just win and don't try to game it?

Do it the hard way and smash everyone!

Surprised to see a Brexiteer choosing to make things harder than they need to be.   

Or we could lack a set of balls and be all doom and gloom like a remainer!  ;yippee;


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: kukushkin88 on June 28, 2018, 10:23:49 AM
Optimal strategy - play absolute all out attack, not much defence - risk losing - as losing has big consolations, but if we do win, try to get big confidence boosting one rather than scraped.?
 
If we’re drawing, also remember get a few bookings. Shirts off after goal etc.

or simply see where Colombia finish and look to avoid them?

or just win and don't try to game it?

I think dodge Colombia looks optimal, if that’s the easier side that’s a bonus of course. Obviously they have very little control over ‘deliberately’ winning. The widespread 15/2 from 20’s after struggling against Tunisia and looking great against Panama really is laughable


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: kukushkin88 on June 28, 2018, 10:25:59 AM
Optimal strategy - play absolute all out attack, not much defence - risk losing - as losing has big consolations, but if we do win, try to get big confidence boosting one rather than scraped.?
 
If we’re drawing, also remember get a few bookings. Shirts off after goal etc.

or simply see where Colombia finish and look to avoid them?

or just win and don't try to game it?

Do it the hard way and smash everyone!

Surprised to see a Brexiteer choosing to make things harder than they need to be.   

Or we could lack a set of balls and be all doom and gloom like a remainer!  ;yippee;

It sounds good but being really sh1t at football relative to their likely opponents might cause a problem or two.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Woodsey on June 28, 2018, 10:29:22 AM
Optimal strategy - play absolute all out attack, not much defence - risk losing - as losing has big consolations, but if we do win, try to get big confidence boosting one rather than scraped.?
 
If we’re drawing, also remember get a few bookings. Shirts off after goal etc.

or simply see where Colombia finish and look to avoid them?

or just win and don't try to game it?

Do it the hard way and smash everyone!

Surprised to see a Brexiteer choosing to make things harder than they need to be.   

Or we could lack a set of balls and be all doom and gloom like a remainer!  ;yippee;

It sounds good but being really sh1t at football relative to their likely opponents might cause a problem or two.

Pussy......


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on June 28, 2018, 10:31:36 AM
Optimal strategy - play absolute all out attack, not much defence - risk losing - as losing has big consolations, but if we do win, try to get big confidence boosting one rather than scraped.?
 
If we’re drawing, also remember get a few bookings. Shirts off after goal etc.

or simply see where Colombia finish and look to avoid them?

or just win and don't try to game it?

Do it the hard way and smash everyone!

Surprised to see a Brexiteer choosing to make things harder than they need to be.   

Or we could lack a set of balls and be all doom and gloom like a remainer!  ;yippee;

It sounds good but being really sh1t at football relative to their likely opponents might cause a problem or two.

Pussy......

come on, debate sensibly don't just resort to crap. Extremely tiresome to see it from you in thread after thread


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Woodsey on June 28, 2018, 11:14:03 AM
Optimal strategy - play absolute all out attack, not much defence - risk losing - as losing has big consolations, but if we do win, try to get big confidence boosting one rather than scraped.?
 
If we’re drawing, also remember get a few bookings. Shirts off after goal etc.

or simply see where Colombia finish and look to avoid them?

or just win and don't try to game it?

Do it the hard way and smash everyone!

Surprised to see a Brexiteer choosing to make things harder than they need to be.   

Or we could lack a set of balls and be all doom and gloom like a remainer!  ;yippee;

It sounds good but being really sh1t at football relative to their likely opponents might cause a problem or two.

Pussy......

come on, debate sensibly don't just resort to crap. Extremely tiresome to see it from you in thread after thread

Ignore my posts then.....


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on June 28, 2018, 11:16:40 AM
Optimal strategy - play absolute all out attack, not much defence - risk losing - as losing has big consolations, but if we do win, try to get big confidence boosting one rather than scraped.?
 
If we’re drawing, also remember get a few bookings. Shirts off after goal etc.

or simply see where Colombia finish and look to avoid them?

or just win and don't try to game it?

Do it the hard way and smash everyone!

Surprised to see a Brexiteer choosing to make things harder than they need to be.   

Or we could lack a set of balls and be all doom and gloom like a remainer!  ;yippee;

It sounds good but being really sh1t at football relative to their likely opponents might cause a problem or two.

Pussy......

come on, debate sensibly don't just resort to crap. Extremely tiresome to see it from you in thread after thread

Ignore my posts then.....

I can't, sadly, I moderate the forum

I am asking you to post without trying to wind up people with other views to yours

just because they have a different view does not mean they are a pussy or a snowflake or lack a set of balls

less confrontational please

this is not the first time this has been requested either


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Woodsey on June 28, 2018, 11:20:18 AM
Optimal strategy - play absolute all out attack, not much defence - risk losing - as losing has big consolations, but if we do win, try to get big confidence boosting one rather than scraped.?
 
If we’re drawing, also remember get a few bookings. Shirts off after goal etc.

or simply see where Colombia finish and look to avoid them?

or just win and don't try to game it?

Do it the hard way and smash everyone!

Surprised to see a Brexiteer choosing to make things harder than they need to be.   

Or we could lack a set of balls and be all doom and gloom like a remainer!  ;yippee;

It sounds good but being really sh1t at football relative to their likely opponents might cause a problem or two.

Pussy......

come on, debate sensibly don't just resort to crap. Extremely tiresome to see it from you in thread after thread

Ignore my posts then.....

I can't, sadly, I moderate the forum

I am asking you to post without trying to wind up people with other views to yours

just because they have a different view does not mean they are a pussy or a snowflake or lack a set of balls

less confrontational please

this is not the first time this has been requested either

Ok I will, but what are you going to do the next time people are being called thicko’s/dumb or whatever on the politics thread? If you dont do something about that when that happens its hardly reasonable to expect people to turn the other cheek is it?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on June 28, 2018, 11:26:11 AM
not aware that anyone is being called thick or dumb on the politics thread, or not for quite some time anyway

you refer to it a lot, clearly sensitive about it

if you see examples of it you can show them to a mod

in the meantime please don't call people pussy etc

thanks


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on June 28, 2018, 12:35:17 PM
If we win or draw we are on same side of draw as:

Uruguay, Portugal, France, Argentina, Brazil, Mexico

If we lose tomorrow or draw and get loads of yellow cards:

Switzerland, Sweden,then Croatia, Denmark, Spain & Russia



Thought long and hard about this and feel he should pick all the second string, play it straight and see what happens. If this doesn't work get the keeper to chuck a couple in. I don't thin were that good. Had some great moments against Panama but the football was average


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on June 28, 2018, 01:46:48 PM
We've beaten two bunches of trees and suddenly the whole nation is feeling it. So com. As soon as we face anyone half decent, we're out.

Proudly got the red and white flag hanging out the window though and an 'andkerchief on me 'ead.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Bazzaboy on June 28, 2018, 01:56:03 PM
Running up a score against Panama wasn’t particularly bright. Keeping the draw onside would have been massive. It’s pretty hard to play to lose if your opponents don’t want to win.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on June 28, 2018, 03:42:02 PM
We've beaten two bunches of trees and suddenly the whole nation is feeling it. So com. As soon as we face anyone half decent, we're out.

Proudly got the red and white flag hanging out the window though and an 'andkerchief on me 'ead.

Yah but maybe semis if we make last 8 and avoid brasil. Come on you trees


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on June 28, 2018, 03:57:00 PM
There has to be something seriously amiss with the system if, in a World Cup, a Team can consider deliberately losing or getting multi players booked to gain an advantage.

Surely there is a better way in the event of equal standings?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: atdc21 on June 28, 2018, 04:16:15 PM
I dont follow football but as Tikay says seems a joke u gotta try to lose to make winning easier  :D
Cant they re draw teams after each round, like FA Cup?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on June 28, 2018, 04:22:06 PM
I dont follow football but as Tikay says seems a joke u gotta try to lose to make winning easier  :D
Cant they re draw teams after each round, like FA Cup?

If, say, a team deliberately lost or got players booked in a Premier League game, to gain advantage, there'd be hell to pay, & quite right too.

Shame really, seems to have been an excellent World Cup in most respects.

I'm not sure Southgate will buy into this nonsense - we shall see shortly. Big Sam, however, would be all over it.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on June 28, 2018, 04:59:43 PM
If England win Group G, they face Japan and go to the Brazil side of the draw

if England finish second, they will face Colombia and go to the 'easier' side. Probably a flip v colombia though?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on June 28, 2018, 05:09:44 PM
I dont follow football but as Tikay says seems a joke u gotta try to lose to make winning easier  :D
Cant they re draw teams after each round, like FA Cup?

If, say, a team deliberately lost or got players booked in a Premier League game, to gain advantage, there'd be hell to pay, & quite right too.

Shame really, seems to have been an excellent World Cup in most respects.

I'm not sure Southgate will buy into this nonsense - we shall see shortly. Big Sam, however, would be all over it.

Surely Southgate would be more likely to have studied the permutations?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on June 28, 2018, 05:10:41 PM
I dont follow football but as Tikay says seems a joke u gotta try to lose to make winning easier  :D
Cant they re draw teams after each round, like FA Cup?

If, say, a team deliberately lost or got players booked in a Premier League game, to gain advantage, there'd be hell to pay, & quite right too.

Shame really, seems to have been an excellent World Cup in most respects.

I'm not sure Southgate will buy into this nonsense - we shall see shortly. Big Sam, however, would be all over it.

Surely Southgate would be more likely to have studied the permutations?

Much more likely, yes, but - imo - less likely to game the system.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Cavey007 on June 28, 2018, 05:16:52 PM
If England win Group G, they face Japan and go to the Brazil side of the draw

if England finish second, they will face Colombia and go to the 'easier' side. Probably a flip v colombia though?

I'd be very disappointed if we lost to the Columbia side I just watched. I'd actually rather face them or Japan than Senegal. For me I'd prefer Japan, given our recent record of winning any knockout game at all, then Mexico or Brazil. We did well against Brazil in a friendly (I know It doesn't count for much other than confidence)


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on June 28, 2018, 06:11:47 PM
I dont follow football but as Tikay says seems a joke u gotta try to lose to make winning easier  :D
Cant they re draw teams after each round, like FA Cup?

If, say, a team deliberately lost or got players booked in a Premier League game, to gain advantage, there'd be hell to pay, & quite right too.

Shame really, seems to have been an excellent World Cup in most respects.

I'm not sure Southgate will buy into this nonsense - we shall see shortly. Big Sam, however, would be all over it.

Surely Southgate would be more likely to have studied the permutations?

Much more likely, yes, but - imo - less likely to game the system.

Shows what I know - England make 8 changes. Belgium go one better with 9 changes.

Farcical really. (FIFA, not the teams).


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: kukushkin88 on June 28, 2018, 06:22:42 PM
I dont follow football but as Tikay says seems a joke u gotta try to lose to make winning easier  :D
Cant they re draw teams after each round, like FA Cup?

If, say, a team deliberately lost or got players booked in a Premier League game, to gain advantage, there'd be hell to pay, & quite right too.

Shame really, seems to have been an excellent World Cup in most respects.

I'm not sure Southgate will buy into this nonsense - we shall see shortly. Big Sam, however, would be all over it.

Surely Southgate would be more likely to have studied the permutations?

Much more likely, yes, but - imo - less likely to game the system.

Shows what I know - England make 8 changes. Belgium go one better with 9 changes.

Farcical really. (FIFA, not the teams).

I think the system is fine, it’s kinda freakish to end up with this imbalance but it’s kind of interesting and has presented decent (some fortuitous) spots for us to bet on. I’m OK with it.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: kukushkin88 on June 28, 2018, 06:24:20 PM
Optimal strategy - play absolute all out attack, not much defence - risk losing - as losing has big consolations, but if we do win, try to get big confidence boosting one rather than scraped.?
 
If we’re drawing, also remember get a few bookings. Shirts off after goal etc.

or simply see where Colombia finish and look to avoid them?

or just win and don't try to game it?

Do it the hard way and smash everyone!

Surprised to see a Brexiteer choosing to make things harder than they need to be.   

Or we could lack a set of balls and be all doom and gloom like a remainer!  ;yippee;

It sounds good but being really sh1t at football relative to their likely opponents might cause a problem or two.

Pussy......

come on, debate sensibly don't just resort to crap. Extremely tiresome to see it from you in thread after thread

Ignore my posts then.....

I can't, sadly, I moderate the forum

I am asking you to post without trying to wind up people with other views to yours

just because they have a different view does not mean they are a pussy or a snowflake or lack a set of balls

less confrontational please

this is not the first time this has been requested either

Ok I will, but what are you going to do the next time people are being called thicko’s/dumb or whatever on the politics thread? If you dont do something about that when that happens its hardly reasonable to expect people to turn the other cheek is it?

Surely ‘simpleton’ is the preferred nomenclature?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on June 28, 2018, 06:27:39 PM
Belgium manager Roberto Martinez: "We want to perform well but the priority is not to win."

Let me just sit down for a minute....


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on June 28, 2018, 06:33:19 PM
Belgium manager Roberto Martinez: "We want to perform well but the priority is not to win."

Let me just sit down for a minute....

What? He really said that?

Say it ain't so.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on June 28, 2018, 06:34:04 PM

Will make for some interesting betting markets, for sure.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on June 28, 2018, 06:34:16 PM
Belgium manager Roberto Martinez: "We want to perform well but the priority is not to win."

Let me just sit down for a minute....

Has it been confirmed he really said that ? Pretty hard to separate that statement from match fixing however 'pragmatic' it may appear


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on June 28, 2018, 06:37:12 PM


What if it's a draw?

England v Belgium (19:00 BST)



The top two positions will then be decided by the number of cards accumulated. England have two yellows and Belgium have picked up three.

If both teams finish with the same number of bookings, then lots will be drawn to decide the final positions.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: kukushkin88 on June 28, 2018, 06:37:59 PM
Belgium manager Roberto Martinez: "We want to perform well but the priority is not to win."

Let me just sit down for a minute....

Could be a DQ? 5/2 England looks even tastier. Certainly a first, betting a team knowing the market dramatically overestimates them, good times :-)


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on June 28, 2018, 06:39:36 PM
ffs, Welbz can't even get in when we're happy to lose - the only reason I'm watching is the chance of glimpsing Welbz in full flow


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on June 28, 2018, 06:41:11 PM
ffs, Welbz can't even get in when we're happy to lose - the only reason I'm watching is the chance of glimpsing Welbz in full flow

He'd probably score the winning goal - exactly what, it appears, we don't want.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on June 28, 2018, 06:42:11 PM
Belgium manager Roberto Martinez: "We want to perform well but the priority is not to win."

Let me just sit down for a minute....

Has it been confirmed he really said that ? Pretty hard to separate that statement from match fixing however 'pragmatic' it may appear

Taken from BBC live text commentary. I think what he means is winning is not the priority rather than we must not win, but even so.   


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on June 28, 2018, 06:42:16 PM
ffs, Welbz can't even get in when we're happy to lose - the only reason I'm watching is the chance of glimpsing Welbz in full flow

He'd probably score the winning goal - exactly what, it appears, we don't want.

Put him in goal - should be safe


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on June 28, 2018, 06:43:16 PM
Belgium manager Roberto Martinez: "We want to perform well but the priority is not to win."

Let me just sit down for a minute....

Has it been confirmed he really said that ? Pretty hard to separate that statement from match fixing however 'pragmatic' it may appear

Taken from BBC live text commentary. I think what he means is winning is not the priority rather than we must not win, but even so.   

Yah, punctuation or language could get him off the hook I guess


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on June 28, 2018, 06:43:50 PM
Belgium manager Roberto Martinez: "We want to perform well but the priority is not to win."

Let me just sit down for a minute....

Has it been confirmed he really said that ? Pretty hard to separate that statement from match fixing however 'pragmatic' it may appear

Taken from BBC live text commentary. I think what he means is winning is not the priority rather than we must not win, but even so.   

Ahh yes, that makes more sense. Sort of.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on June 28, 2018, 06:57:46 PM
update from Ben Mayhew's model on twitter @experimental361

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgkJxzpWAAEucPL.jpg)

Assume not the same Ben Mayhew that plays(ed) poker?

No idea, Alex, but it seems a reasonable assumption to me......


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on June 28, 2018, 07:05:45 PM
update from Ben Mayhew's model on twitter @experimental361

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgkJxzpWAAEucPL.jpg)

Assume not the same Ben Mayhew that plays(ed) poker?

No idea, Alex, but it seems a reasonable assumption to me......

No it isn't.  Ben Mayhew (poker) retweeted Ben Mayhew (stats) just to add to the confusion. 


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on June 28, 2018, 07:07:54 PM
just now on betfair.   England about 11/8. Belgium 3/1.  Belgium should be a bet.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on June 28, 2018, 07:19:07 PM
just now on betfair.   England about 11/8. Belgium 3/1.  Belgium should be a bet.

just got 4.1 to add to the 4.  Seems mad to me.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: bagel on June 28, 2018, 08:03:19 PM
just try to win ffs

do brasil in the quarters really look that scary?

of course they are favourites if we draw them, world cup is obviously once every 4 years (when we qualify), cheering on a loss or draw or whatever gives us an "easier draw" is such a depressing mindset.

win tonight, smash japan or colombia, then enjoy a quarter final against whoever comes next.

we are to conditioned to the idea that as soon as we play a big name then its game over.

it may well be but enjoy it all while you can.

never say never, and in 3 weeks time its all over so we can all go back to cheering on chelsea on channel 5


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on June 28, 2018, 08:08:23 PM
just now on betfair.   England about 11/8. Belgium 3/1.  Belgium should be a bet.

just got 4.1 to add to the 4.  Seems mad to me.

I'm persuaded, can you stick £25 on for me please David?

Oh, wait.....


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on June 28, 2018, 08:16:20 PM
just try to win ffs

do brasil in the quarters really look that scary?

of course they are favourites if we draw them, world cup is obviously once every 4 years (when we qualify), cheering on a loss or draw or whatever gives us an "easier draw" is such a depressing mindset.

win tonight, smash japan or colombia, then enjoy a quarter final against whoever comes next.

we are to conditioned to the idea that as soon as we play a big name then its game over.

it may well be but enjoy it all while you can.

never say never, and in 3 weeks time its all over so we can all go back to cheering on chelsea on channel 5

I read earlier that England had a 20% chance of making the World Cup final if they finish 2nd and only a 10% chance of making it if they finish 2nd.   Surely 2nd us a great result in the circumstances? 



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Woodsey on June 28, 2018, 08:21:25 PM
just try to win ffs

do brasil in the quarters really look that scary?

of course they are favourites if we draw them, world cup is obviously once every 4 years (when we qualify), cheering on a loss or draw or whatever gives us an "easier draw" is such a depressing mindset.

win tonight, smash japan or colombia, then enjoy a quarter final against whoever comes next.

we are to conditioned to the idea that as soon as we play a big name then its game over.

it may well be but enjoy it all while you can.

never say never, and in 3 weeks time its all over so we can all go back to cheering on chelsea on channel 5

Yup.....grow a pair of ba.......whoops  ;whistle;


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on June 28, 2018, 08:21:51 PM
just try to win ffs

do brasil in the quarters really look that scary?

of course they are favourites if we draw them, world cup is obviously once every 4 years (when we qualify), cheering on a loss or draw or whatever gives us an "easier draw" is such a depressing mindset.

win tonight, smash japan or colombia, then enjoy a quarter final against whoever comes next.

we are to conditioned to the idea that as soon as we play a big name then its game over.

it may well be but enjoy it all while you can.

never say never, and in 3 weeks time its all over so we can all go back to cheering on chelsea on channel 5

I read earlier that England had a 20% chance of making the World Cup final if they finish 2nd and only a 10% chance of making it if they finish 2nd.   Surely 2nd us a great result in the circumstances? 



Just read Ben Mayhew (the other one) saying it is about the same either way.  Pretty sure both are wrong and the truth is somewhere inbetween.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: bagel on June 28, 2018, 08:28:52 PM
you may well be right

personally would love a quarter final against brasil or any of the big names.

not because i think it gives us our best chance, just for a great day out watching 90 mins and making the most of a good excuse to meet up with pals and enjoy the occasion.

i genuinely love watching england in knockout games even though it goes tits up most of the time.

its the hope that i get a buzz from, when it goes wrong i give a f*** for the evening at most, than start getting stressed about weight etc


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on June 28, 2018, 08:42:26 PM
Wish England would stop trying


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Woodsey on June 28, 2018, 08:45:59 PM
Wish England would stop trying

 rotflmfao

The crowd seem very chipper with their potential loss.....


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on June 28, 2018, 08:49:32 PM
Wish England would stop trying

 rotflmfao

The crowd seem very chipper with their potential loss.....

Haha, Belgium 5.1 at half (after) time. Could buy 2 pints of London Pride by losing the Brexit derby


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on June 28, 2018, 08:49:56 PM
The final arbiter is the betfair market.  England now in to 8/1 for the World Cup.   Looking like a great result unless swinging dicks around is your thing...


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: kukushkin88 on June 28, 2018, 08:50:51 PM
Wish England would stop trying

 rotflmfao

The crowd seem very chipper with their potential loss.....

As always, do the opposite of what Woodsey(‘s online persona) says is optimal :-)


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on June 28, 2018, 08:51:41 PM
And Belgium now a bigger price for the World Cup than England.   Bonkers really.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: kukushkin88 on June 28, 2018, 08:52:59 PM
The final arbiter is the betfair market.  England now in to 8/1 for the World Cup.   Looking like a great result unless swinging dicks around is your thing...

Weren’t they 8/1 best before kick off? Spain and Croatia now very interesting.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on June 28, 2018, 08:53:20 PM
The two years of debate after we lose to Colombia will be fun


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on June 28, 2018, 08:54:40 PM
The two years of debate after we lose to Colombia will be fun

True dat, you never know though, they could be bad enough to lose to England


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on June 28, 2018, 08:56:17 PM
Croatia the value yes, each way? Can beat Spain, faves against anyone from England's quarter. Punchers chance against anyone in a final. 14/1 when I looked earlier


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Woodsey on June 28, 2018, 08:57:25 PM
Wish England would stop trying

 rotflmfao

The crowd seem very chipper with their potential loss.....

As always, do the opposite of what Woodsey(‘s online persona) says is optimal :-)

I honestly don’t give a fk about odds, the best way to win a tournament etc. For me it’s about doing the ‘right thing’ and I can’t ever endorse fixed/bullshit games on any level, they should always be played straight up and trying to win. Ok they played weakened teams, but at least both teams seemed to be trying to win, after that what will be will be......


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: kukushkin88 on June 28, 2018, 08:57:51 PM
There is 6/1 England, is there a limit to the delusion? Credit to them for not trying tonight at least.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Woodsey on June 28, 2018, 08:59:03 PM
The two years of debate after we lose to Colombia will be fun

Keeping a positive mindset again I see  ;yippee; ;adamm;


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on June 28, 2018, 09:01:16 PM
There is 6/1 England, is there a limit to the delusion? Credit to them for not trying tonight at least.

chortle


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on June 28, 2018, 09:07:04 PM
The two years of debate after we lose to Colombia will be fun

Keeping a positive mindset again I see  ;yippee; ;adamm;

Perfectly positive. Colombia are over 3/1 for the match. It's a 50-50 game. Off to find the piggy bank, what value...


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on June 28, 2018, 09:09:53 PM

Not England related, but this was pretty good.....



https://twitter.com/RomaThings/status/1012392987656060928


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on June 28, 2018, 09:09:58 PM
Or 6/4 Colombia to qualify bet365, probably a price that will be longer on Tuesday too.

Someone put me off!


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: MANTIS01 on June 28, 2018, 09:13:19 PM
England side facing Colombia will be way different.

No win game with almost whole team changed.

Wouldn't base my expectations around the performance of this starting 11


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on June 28, 2018, 09:17:14 PM
I am not. All about the value. Isn't it a 50-50 game? England are priced up 1/2 to qualify. With mug money to send it lower still. Don't see these spots too often.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on June 28, 2018, 09:23:28 PM
I am not. All about the value. Isn't it a 50-50 game? England are priced up 1/2 to qualify. With mug money to send it lower still. Don't see these spots too often.

It isn't a 50/50 game.  They lost to Japan and have been pretty underwhelming.   Other than Brazil, the South American teams don't look that great this time round.  May well be value, but will probably get better, as you say.





Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: kukushkin88 on June 28, 2018, 09:25:07 PM
England side facing Colombia will be way different.

No win game with almost whole team changed.

Wouldn't base my expectations around the performance of this starting 11

and you get upset when someone says ‘simpleton’. Sorry Tighty, I don’t mean to be trouble, they’re suckering me in.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Woodsey on June 28, 2018, 09:28:33 PM
The two years of debate after we lose to Colombia will be fun

Keeping a positive mindset again I see  ;yippee; ;adamm;

Perfectly positive. Colombia are over 3/1 for the match. It's a 50-50 game. Off to find the piggy bank, what value...

Forget the odds, absolute treason for betting against England! Off with your head!


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on June 28, 2018, 09:28:39 PM
The final arbiter is the betfair market.  England now in to 8/1 for the World Cup.   Looking like a great result unless swinging dicks around is your thing...

Weren’t they 8/1 best before kick off? Spain and Croatia now very interesting.

Not on betfair.  


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on June 28, 2018, 09:29:22 PM
I am not. All about the value. Isn't it a 50-50 game? England are priced up 1/2 to qualify. With mug money to send it lower still. Don't see these spots too often.

It isn't a 50/50 game.  They lost to Japan and have been pretty underwhelming.   Other than Brazil, the South American teams don't look that great this time round.  May well be value, but will probably get better, as you say.





Yes thanks. They had ten men v Japan. Then again James may be out which is massive, exactly the sort of playmaker we would struggle against

Will sleep on it and try to wait til Tues anyway


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: MANTIS01 on June 28, 2018, 09:48:24 PM
I don't give Colombia a sniff


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Marky147 on June 28, 2018, 09:49:04 PM
I don't give Colombia a sniff

All about the Peruvian...


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on June 29, 2018, 09:17:40 AM
all delighted the next game is on ITV?

By the by,punditry is difficult but is there a less interesting pundit than Ryan Giggs, on either channel? Offers little, boring style


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on June 29, 2018, 09:44:35 AM
Here you go Tighty

https://www.eloratings.net/

now thinks it is close to a coinflip.  I will add that before yesterday's result England were 4th or 5th in the ratings, so England likely have a bigger edge than this, but it is probably still a bit of value, but I suspect waiting is best.  I know some of it was down to team selection and words from Martinez, but Belgium drifted massively before yesterday's game.   I think they were something like 5/4 for that game before the World Cup started (they were clear favourites anyway), and 3/1 just afer the game started.   

I am in the odd position of having an England to win voucher and have backed their opponent in 2 games already.  I am not trying to hedge either.   

And at least ITV doesn't have Shearer and Lawrenson.   


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on June 29, 2018, 02:39:37 PM
Numbers probably make the England-Colombia prices about right, but sometimes you have to go with your eyes.

I'm with Tighty here, the loldream ends early next week.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: POWWWWWWWW on June 29, 2018, 03:33:30 PM
They've looked very average vs Japan and Senegal and decent vs Poland, which by the sounds of it was the only game James was fully fit for. He got 2 assists in that game. Think they'll really struggle to create without him vs us, and Falcao isn't really a striker to create a goal out of nothing. I'd expect us to give them a real hard time at set pieces as well. Ospina has pretty poor box presence and can't catch.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on June 30, 2018, 04:23:43 PM
Mbappe is 19. Fun fun player


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on June 30, 2018, 04:35:03 PM
he is saving my tournament going to go near fav for the golden ball after this

mind you the bbc team talking like he is 16


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on June 30, 2018, 04:38:11 PM
talking like Sampaoli is some bloke down the pub who has just taken over, not had a very good managerial career or anything

Argentina problems a lot lot deeper


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on June 30, 2018, 04:42:15 PM
swap kante for mascherano and there is not a great deal between these sides imo


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: RED-DOG on June 30, 2018, 07:51:17 PM
When are they going to start booking players for play-acting?

Out and out cheating IMO, they should be ashamed of themselves.

Despicable.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on June 30, 2018, 08:04:38 PM
When are they going to start booking players for play-acting?

Out and out cheating IMO, they should be ashamed of themselves.

Despicable.

+1.

The annoying thing is that it would be so easy to eradicate. Just send them off first time they do it. The authorities just don't have the will to do it. They book players for removing their shirt though.

 


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: teddybloat on July 01, 2018, 06:34:17 AM
.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on July 01, 2018, 12:44:15 PM
stats from the group stage were
Yellow cards: 162 (3.4 average per match)
Red cards: 1 direct, 2 second yellow cards
Penalty kicks: 24 (7 VAR)
Additional time: 6min 15sec average per match
VAR Checks: 335 incidents checked (6.9 average per match)
VAR Reviews: 17 (14 changed)


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: cambridgealex on July 01, 2018, 01:05:55 PM
When are they going to start booking players for play-acting?

Out and out cheating IMO, they should be ashamed of themselves.

Despicable.

+1.

The annoying thing is that it would be so easy to eradicate. Just send them off first time they do it. The authorities just don't have the will to do it. They book players for removing their shirt though.

 

Afternoon Tikay. I don't think it's easy to eradicate at all. How do you judge at the time, or indeed in retrospect whether someone is faking an injury? Sure there are some clear ones where man grabs his face having been shoved in the back, but there'll be ludicrous numbers of grey areas.

Neymar gets taken out, falls to the ground, rolls once - couldn't help it. Twice, ok....three times...excessive.....four times - yellow! Would be a nightmare for the officials. I wish something could be done though, same as everyone does.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on July 01, 2018, 01:24:30 PM
straight red please

would be in rugby,many other sports

get out of his face


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: teddybloat on July 01, 2018, 03:02:25 PM
When are they going to start booking players for play-acting?

Out and out cheating IMO, they should be ashamed of themselves.

Despicable.

+1.

The annoying thing is that it would be so easy to eradicate. Just send them off first time they do it. The authorities just don't have the will to do it. They book players for removing their shirt though.

 

Afternoon Tikay. I don't think it's easy to eradicate at all. How do you judge at the time, or indeed in retrospect whether someone is faking an injury? Sure there are some clear ones where man grabs his face having been shoved in the back, but there'll be ludicrous numbers of grey areas.

Neymar gets taken out, falls to the ground, rolls once - couldn't help it. Twice, ok....three times...excessive.....four times - yellow! Would be a nightmare for the officials. I wish something could be done though, same as everyone does.

it should be easy to eradicate from bottom up order. if fans and media chastised thier own players then it would stop very quickly. you dont see people feigning injury in rugby and mma as the fans would slaughter the players and their peers would see it as an act of shame. your character and masculinity would be questioned. manners and ways of acting emerge from below.

racism in the stands was stopped, not due to fines from above, but by fans not putting up with people making monkey noises and shaming and shunning people who did.

shows what a shit show us football fans are when we need the invisible hand of fifa to guide the ethics in our game.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 01, 2018, 03:08:04 PM
would say it is way to earlier to say racism has stopped not just abroad still happens mainly at lower levels in this country as well

personally I would rather the refs started clamping down on some of the tackles, Mercado yesterday was a straight red in any game in a sunday league let alone the world cup


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: teddybloat on July 01, 2018, 03:14:25 PM
that racism hasnt stopped in other countries despite fines rather proves my point.

the culture hasnt changed there.  and the racist chanting wont stop unless the fans stop it.

fans could stop the rolling around pretty much over night if they stopped being hypocrites and didnt tolerate it in their own players. the media too


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 01, 2018, 04:24:37 PM
Amazing the way the russians seem to get faster as the game goes on

must be the training regime!


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on July 01, 2018, 05:10:34 PM
When are they going to start booking players for play-acting?

Out and out cheating IMO, they should be ashamed of themselves.

Despicable.

+1.

The annoying thing is that it would be so easy to eradicate. Just send them off first time they do it. The authorities just don't have the will to do it. They book players for removing their shirt though.

 

Afternoon Tikay. I don't think it's easy to eradicate at all. How do you judge at the time, or indeed in retrospect whether someone is faking an injury? Sure there are some clear ones where man grabs his face having been shoved in the back, but there'll be ludicrous numbers of grey areas.

Neymar gets taken out, falls to the ground, rolls once - couldn't help it. Twice, ok....three times...excessive.....four times - yellow! Would be a nightmare for the officials. I wish something could be done though, same as everyone does.

Afternoon Dad.

I don't think it would be that difficult. Sure, as you point out, the line is fine sometimes, but what's the worst that can happen - a few miscarriages of justice? If so, there'd be no sympathy from me. We don't see it in RU or RL, do we? And that's because the Authorities & Referees won't tolerate it.

The Managers/Coaches are as bad - they could eradicate it if they wished.

It's a blight on the game (as is time-wasting) & it will get worse unless it is dealt with.

What is it that announcement on Network Rail keeps telling us?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on July 01, 2018, 05:13:58 PM
straight red please

would be in rugby,many other sports

get out of his face

+1

Arguing with the referee is pointless, stupid, & disrespectful.



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on July 01, 2018, 05:42:37 PM
One of these teams WILL be in the World Cup FINAL:

Russia/Croatia/Denmark Sweden/Switzerland/Colombia/England


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 01, 2018, 05:46:31 PM
great news for the mbappe bet Isco was a real player in that

Ignashevich has not played like that for 10 years! was not even blowing at the end of extra time, forgive me if I am a tad suspicious


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Teacake on July 01, 2018, 05:53:19 PM
great news for the mbappe bet Isco was a real player in that

Ignashevich has not played like that for 10 years! was not even blowing at the end of extra time, forgive me if I am a tad suspicious

I was thinking the same then remembered they were playing Spain.......


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: bagel on July 01, 2018, 05:56:49 PM
glad that russia won but last penalty var decision was somewhat debatable

ok it was a blatant foul

thought the ref was very good until then, i reckon he probably gave more of the 50 50s in favour of spain

5 minutes of extra time left

bloke in the var room was never giving that unless it was at the other end

potentially good for england i guess, if we can get past colombia tomorrow


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on July 01, 2018, 05:57:07 PM
ENGLAND are just 5/2 to reach the WorldCup Final with betway.


The Three Lions are now 6/1 joint third favourites with Belgium, behind Brazil and France (both 7/2)

Lol

Now then Croatia, make sure tonight :-)


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on July 01, 2018, 06:46:50 PM
Can lay England for as much as you like at 7.2. Utter comedy.

One of Russia, England, Croatia, Colombia, Denmark, Sweden and Switzerland will now make the World Cup Final.

Incred scenes.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 01, 2018, 07:19:44 PM
Hard to think the England price is way ool imo

Agree re Spain teacake


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on July 01, 2018, 07:50:47 PM
Hard to think the England price is way ool imo

Agree re Spain teacake

Price is about right if you work out the route to victory match by match, but we all know it ain't gonna happen!


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on July 01, 2018, 08:05:24 PM
Hard to think the England price is way ool imo

Agree re Spain teacake

Price is about right if you work out the route to victory match by match, but we all know it ain't gonna happen!

why isn't it going to happen?  Seemingly rational gamblers losing all sense of logic when it comes to England.  If they didn't lose to Belgium they would be the highest rated side in that half of the draw.   There price is in line with Croatia, so can't be that far out of line, certainly not worthy of the endless lols.

Just as Spain and Germany are sometimes going to lose, England are sometimes going to win.  They couldn't run much better with the draw anyway. 



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: bagel on July 01, 2018, 09:27:51 PM
just wow

 how on earth is that not a red card?

its coming home


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on July 01, 2018, 09:34:27 PM
Double jeopardy. In the box attempt to play the ball, no red. Changed rule 2 seasons ago


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on July 01, 2018, 09:36:31 PM
Or..


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: bagel on July 01, 2018, 09:56:44 PM
Or..

thanks for the link   

seems wrong to me that a clear one on one with striker that is  huge favourite to score can end like that

even if defender is going for the ball, if he misses it and takes player down then he should get a red

was hoping for denmark win but justice in the end i reckon

not too worried about croatia if we do end up playing them , providing they play like they did tonight


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 01, 2018, 10:07:18 PM
Croatia back to the side who looked awful in qualifying tonight



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: teddybloat on July 01, 2018, 10:37:45 PM
Double jeopardy. In the box attempt to play the ball, no red. Changed rule 2 seasons ago

yah bit crazy when in the name of restoring the goal scoring chance it puts the goalkeeper back in front of the ball.

a goal scoring chance that was an open goal from 6 yards has been restored to a chance 12 yards away and a fully set schmichi in front of you

equitable


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on July 02, 2018, 12:04:01 AM
Double jeopardy. In the box attempt to play the ball, no red. Changed rule 2 seasons ago

yah bit crazy when in the name of restoring the goal scoring chance it puts the goalkeeper back in front of the ball.

a goal scoring chance that was an open goal from 6 yards has been restored to a chance 12 yards away and a fully set schmichi in front of you

equitable

Some situations are going to be more equitable than others.  Pointing out one inequitable situation doesn't negate the reason for the rule.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: teddybloat on July 02, 2018, 06:13:07 AM
Yeah i like the new laws, still a pretty big outlier though lol.

The price you pay for favouring  consistency over allowing discretion I guess.

Still a weird one considering what the rule change set out to do


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on July 02, 2018, 04:45:26 PM
Very ordinary Brazil team this.

Neymar is an utter dick too.

England must be sub 3-1 by now?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 02, 2018, 04:47:45 PM
think people are a bit blinded by the brazil sides of old

been a long time since they were that, they are very well organised and have one of the better keepers left in the tournament

Neymar a dick but is working back to fitness nicely


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on July 03, 2018, 01:00:08 PM

When 3 of my favourite tipsters & judges have differing on the same market, I've no idea what to think.

England or Colombia, & why?

Prices?

Roughly, 3/1 Colombia, 6/5 England, 11/5 the draw.


https://www.oddschecker.com/football/world-cup/colombia-v-england/winner


Are we expecting many goals in the game?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on July 03, 2018, 01:34:02 PM
I cannot believe Colombia are 3/1

Obviously want England to win and would have them slight favourites if James Rodriguez is out but there's not much in it really surely?

I read that England have gone off favourite for every single world cup finals match they have played since the 2002 world cup. Including Germany in 2010

As extra time has to be a possibility the 6/4 Colombia to qualify really appeals https://www.oddschecker.com/football/world-cup/colombia-v-england/to-qualify

England are 1/2 in that market. I might even venture an exclamation mark at that price...

Someone else can give me the other view please....why England at 6/5 is the bet.



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 03, 2018, 02:06:35 PM
Cant give that view but hard to think there is a massive price rick in a worldwide market like this

I think Colombia are likely to make errors at the back despite having two very promising centre backs there were plenty of gaps in the group games which Kane will take advantage of where Senegal in particular could not.

Think Falcao who is my favourite striker of the last decade will struggle with another game in a relatively short space of time (not played such intense schedule since near career ending injury). Bacca is not the player he was a few years ago when he replaces him probably after 65 minutes here.

All of that is also in the price no bet if ever there was one for me.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 03, 2018, 02:15:27 PM
Only bet I have had today fwiw is Michael Lang first and last scorer in the sweden v swiss game

Been a 1 in 8 man in domestic football for a long time very good for a right back, scored in recent years against Man City and Man Utd so seems to rise for the big games (small sample I know) only 2 in 26 for national side but 22 of them were short sub appearances.

Lichtsteiner usually plays right back and is suspended more importantly for the bet so is Schaar who is usually the target for most set pieces, with him missing big chance Lang takes up that role.

44s on exchange or as cheap as 3 to buy with the spreads are not the worst bets ever


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on July 03, 2018, 04:39:45 PM
Sweden the worst team to ever make a WC QF?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: celtic on July 03, 2018, 04:45:18 PM
Sweden the worst team to ever make a WC QF?

Why?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on July 03, 2018, 05:07:44 PM
I'm beyond reproach.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on July 03, 2018, 05:10:59 PM
North Korea have always been World beaters. 


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 03, 2018, 05:34:14 PM
Think Sweden will be tough to break down if England get there

Sit very deep one of the better sides at defending set pieces and a threat on the counter

Presuming Forsburg is fit enough to play that is


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on July 03, 2018, 06:25:56 PM
A few bookies now going 16/5 Columbia which matches betfair Nx you don't pay commission. 


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: MANTIS01 on July 03, 2018, 06:38:31 PM
I cannot believe Colombia are 3/1

Obviously want England to win and would have them slight favourites if James Rodriguez is out but there's not much in it really surely?

I read that England have gone off favourite for every single world cup finals match they have played since the 2002 world cup. Including Germany in 2010

As extra time has to be a possibility the 6/4 Colombia to qualify really appeals https://www.oddschecker.com/football/world-cup/colombia-v-england/to-qualify

England are 1/2 in that market. I might even venture an exclamation mark at that price...

Someone else can give me the other view please....why England at 6/5 is the bet.

Harry '56 goals in 52 games' Kane

England will batter Colombia on set pieces

James not playing

C'MON  ENGLAND!


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on July 03, 2018, 06:57:58 PM

Colombia won the National Anthem easily.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: teddybloat on July 03, 2018, 07:12:28 PM
They had something to work with.

Embarrassing to sing a long to a dirge imploring a supernatural entity to help one of the richest and most powerful woman on earth.

What working class lad wants a camera shoved in his face and have his friends and family see him miming along to that


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Karabiner on July 03, 2018, 07:24:21 PM
We might need to watch out for the last of the Mojicans..


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on July 03, 2018, 08:22:42 PM

Jostling, wrestling, play acting, endless arguing and protests to the referee. Hard to imagine a worse advert for football.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on July 03, 2018, 08:49:49 PM

Jostling, wrestling, play acting, endless arguing and protests to the referee. Hard to imagine a worse advert for football.

The penalty spot scruffing epic was epic shithousery.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: MANTIS01 on July 03, 2018, 09:20:14 PM
Why can’t Jordan Henderson pass forwards?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: teddybloat on July 03, 2018, 09:27:09 PM
Neymar like reaction to having hair bounce into his chin as well.

Embarrassing


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: RickBFA on July 03, 2018, 09:34:26 PM
Neymar like reaction to having hair bounce into his chin as well.

Embarrassing

Agreed, cheating seems to be an accepted norm in football.



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on July 03, 2018, 09:53:33 PM
Phew, that was a tough watch

Wonderful penalty save that


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on July 03, 2018, 09:54:21 PM
look at this for a sports photo


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: booder on July 03, 2018, 09:56:37 PM
Never in doubt.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: sovietsong on July 03, 2018, 10:02:43 PM
its coming home


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on July 03, 2018, 10:04:49 PM
Eric Dier is 'unflappable' says Poogatch.

Would have sworn he spent ET looking like a rabbit before getting lucky with a tame pen, but all about opinions.

England must be odds-on now? North Korea, North Scandinavia...bring it on! No stopping this England juggernaut!

Number crunchers are in DREAMLAND!


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 03, 2018, 10:32:03 PM
Wow superb

That's why Dier has got where he is in the game.

Not in good form but mentally very strong all the penalties we're decent even Henderson

Thought the second half of extra time showed a lot big worry that kane is ok vardy looked lost and couldn't outpace Mina who had one leg also surprised he didn't fancy a pen


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: bookiebasher on July 03, 2018, 10:34:35 PM
Great photo Tighty.

Dire is a donkey , far too slow for international level.

Walker has always got a big mistake in him.

Sweden 9-2 with Skybet 2s to qualify . Better side than Columbia.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on July 03, 2018, 10:35:38 PM
very surprised that Vardy didn't take one. 80% success rate for club

wonder why. maybe lacking a bit of confidence as you imply

Presumably he was 6th?

good pens though, even Henderson's was a good save rather than a bad pen


Harry Maguire had a really really good game (trying to be objective but failing)



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on July 03, 2018, 10:36:22 PM
https://twitter.com/i/status/1014246290056794113

Crazy good save that.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on July 03, 2018, 10:36:41 PM
here is the Pickford save, as we didn't see a replay!

https://twitter.com/PremLeaguePanel/status/1014260942861938689

sensational


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 03, 2018, 10:37:50 PM
Dier is the fall guy at the minute always has to be one

Agree re Maguire never been convinced mainly as saw him to often get caught for sheff United but that was a long time ago now and he was world class tonight


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: hhyftrftdr on July 03, 2018, 10:38:38 PM
Dier is.....dire, incred to think he was linked with a £50m+ move just the other year.

Far too slow, ponderous, offers very little to the team despite his supposed versatility. Essentially a really shit version of Gareth Barry.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on July 03, 2018, 10:39:34 PM
Great photo Tighty.

Dire is a donkey , far too slow for international level.

Walker has always got a big mistake in him.

Sweden 9-2 with Skybet 2s to qualify . Better side than Columbia.

Colombia didn't play for 90 minutes, very disappointing for my wallet. still almost nicked it which showed 6/4 to qual was a spot

Strangely i don't fancy sweden as much

you know what to do

 


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: bookiebasher on July 03, 2018, 10:39:40 PM
Not sure Henderson’s was good penalty. His whole body language running up to the ball
meant it was only going one side and dire’s penalty should have been saved.



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on July 03, 2018, 10:41:04 PM
Agree re: Maguire. Guy has come so far in such a short space of time. We'll go as far as him, Jesse and Kane take us.

Vardy nearing the end of his career and didn't want to be remembered as the latest guy who blew it in a penalty shootout?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 03, 2018, 10:41:46 PM
Sure Dier will be fine won't start again anyway

Let's concentrate on us controlling most of the game and being so comfortable on the ball


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Newportlad on July 03, 2018, 10:46:42 PM
Well done England.

Best team won the match. I'm not sure how the ref didnt send of at least one Columbian player for their antics.  No place for that in the game imo,

Worldy of a save by Pickford just before Columbia equalised.  Deserves more praise.

England have a real chance here to get to the Final, though they rely far too much on Kane.  Rashford must start in place of Sterling, who has been anonymous in this World Cup.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on July 03, 2018, 10:47:33 PM
Great photo Tighty.

Dire is a donkey , far too slow for international level.

Walker has always got a big mistake in him.

Sweden 9-2 with Skybet 2s to qualify . Better side than Columbia.

Colombia didn't play for 90 minutes, very disappointing for my wallet. still almost nicked it which showed 6/4 to qual was a spot

Strangely i don't fancy sweden as much

you know what to do

 

meh, hard to conclude 6/4 was a spot.  25/1 England was a spot.  

Maybe if they'd just played properly from the start it would have been value.   They looked awful until they were a goal down and quit all the negativity.   They were on top in extra time, but lucky to get there.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on July 03, 2018, 10:50:54 PM
anyway

World Cup winner:

11/4 Brazil;
7/2 England; 7/2 France;
11/2 Belgium;
6/1 Croatia;
14/1 Uruguay;
20/1 Russia;
22/1 Sweden

(Wm Hill).England vs Sweden to qualify: 2/5 England; 7/4 Sweden.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: BigAdz on July 03, 2018, 10:51:25 PM
Dier is.....dire, incred to think he was linked with a £50m+ move just the other year.

Far too slow, ponderous, offers very little to the team despite his supposed versatility. Essentially a really shit version of Gareth Barry.


Not sure why The Cheek never saw action either once it was clear we had lost our way.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 03, 2018, 10:51:45 PM
About the 20th minute one of the Columbian technical staff passed a note on

Presume it said we can't live with this time to go to plan b


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 03, 2018, 10:53:13 PM
Highlights now on the beeb!

Let's go again


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: hhyftrftdr on July 03, 2018, 10:53:17 PM
Well done England.

Best team won the match. I'm not sure how the ref didnt send of at least one Columbian player for their antics.  No place for that in the game imo,

Worldy of a save by Pickford just before Columbia equalised.  Deserves more praise.

England have a real chance here to get to the Final, though they rely far too much on Kane.  Rashford must start in place of Sterling, who has been anonymous in this World Cup.

Rashford is nowhere near good enough to be starting regularly for England. I'm sure he will be in a couple of years but not at the moment.

Whilst it's flavour of the month/year/decade to bash Sterling, and yes he doesn't get on the scoresheet as much as he should (though that can be levelled at plenty of other players), he offers way more to the team than Rashford.

His runs, his ability to create space, he occupies defenders, his link up play. He starts for England on merit, and whilst he isn't pulling up any trees this comp, his all round game is contributing to this 'success' England are enjoying.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on July 03, 2018, 10:56:34 PM
Do think we lost something when Sterling went off.   Rashford made a bigger difference than Vardy, though that might just be because they were given different instructions.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on July 03, 2018, 10:57:09 PM
England controlled the game until tbey became conscious of needing to control the game.

Better performance than I thought we were capable of and most enjoyable 80 odd minutes of watching England in a tourney for a while


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 03, 2018, 10:58:24 PM
Sterling is playing fine just needs a goal

Amazing how perception changes around Henderson

Looking at the highlights again another ref he gets sent off for reacting during the penalty award. The game seemed to pass him by and he never controlled it at any point.

As ever could never fault his effort


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 03, 2018, 11:02:22 PM
The mail release an article slagging Sterling just after the final penalty

Great work Matt lawton you moron


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on July 03, 2018, 11:04:09 PM
Massive respect for Southgate too - can't really find any fault in anything he has done since taking over and presents himself so well compared with so many arrogant idiot predecessors in the role


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: hhyftrftdr on July 03, 2018, 11:04:12 PM
The mail release an article slagging Sterling just after the final penalty

Great work Matt lawton you moron

The media hatchet job has worked wonders.

Now your average simpleton down the pub hates Sterling and they don't even know why.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 03, 2018, 11:11:07 PM
Massive respect for Southgate too - can't really find any fault in anything he has done since taking over and presents himself so well compared with so many arrogant idiot predecessors in the role

Correct

Credit to the much maligned Dan ashworth as well was a massive cheerleader for Southgate since he was appointed to oversee all the changes


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: BigAdz on July 04, 2018, 12:24:19 AM
The mail release an article slagging Sterling just after the final penalty

Great work Matt lawton you moron

The media hatchet job has worked wonders.

Now your average simpleton down the pub hates Sterling and they don't even know why.


The media are dicks, as per.

Lack of proper research and the desire to scare everyone is why we are so relatively poorly supported, when there appears to be very little risk in being there.



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: dino1980 on July 04, 2018, 01:40:02 AM
very surprised that Vardy didn't take one. 80% success rate for club

wonder why. maybe lacking a bit of confidence as you imply

Presumably he was 6th?

good pens though, even Henderson's was a good save rather than a bad pen


Harry Maguire had a really really good game (trying to be objective but failing)



Re: Vardy and not taking a penalty. My guesstimate is that in the majority of Southgate's scenarios where England got to penalties then Vardy wouldn't have been on the pitch, given that Rashford seems to have been the Plan A attacking replacement. Whereas the five who went ahead of him were likely to be on the pitch (Dier not as much I confess). I realise in this particular scenario he was and I'm also surprised he didn't take one. But the whole 'owning the process' mantra that Southgate has preached recently almost certainly had Player X taking Penalty Y and I presume that Dier was always pencilled in for spot-kick number five if he was on the pitch. Forgetting his performances in Russia so far he has a) captained England and b) taken free kicks for England (e.g. vs. Russia in Euro 2016) so certainly seems to have the mental ability to be trusted in such a situation and the technique at dead ball situations.

p.s. not a dig at you Rich, just quoting you out of the many who asked the same question.
p.p.s. I know you're a stats man, the xG of a penalty is 76% according to understat.com's xG model, so Vardy is above average...just.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Woodsey on July 04, 2018, 06:25:59 AM
The two years of debate after we lose to Colombia will be fun

Yup  ;danafish;


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: MANTIS01 on July 04, 2018, 08:17:08 AM
Overwhelming to win on penalties, long time coming

Maguire was a colossus at the back and really penetrating running the ball forwards. In fact the back 3 looked composed in possession at the back, liking it.

Trippier has impressed on the international scene

Henderson is the ghost of David Batty, penalty miss was totally expected. In ET when we need a moment of magic JH is incapable. Bringing Jonjo Shelvey on for that 30mins would have been just the ticket.

Bring on Sweden yah.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: buffyslayer1 on July 04, 2018, 10:00:38 AM
Re: Vardy taking a pen

I read or heard somewhere (maybe twitter) vardy said no to taking a pen when asked. Not sure how true that is though




Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on July 04, 2018, 10:12:07 AM
Wouldn't blame him if he did. He's not a first-team regular after all. No real upside for him.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on July 04, 2018, 10:16:56 AM
On Twitter, @Bet365 suggested Vardy was injured;


Jamie Vardy was due to take England's fifth penalty vs Colombia but strained his groin in the latter stages of extra-time.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on July 04, 2018, 10:19:09 AM
Well of course he did!

This is deece

https://twitter.com/i/status/1014260549675253760


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Woodsey on July 04, 2018, 10:24:01 AM
Well of course he did!

This is deece

https://twitter.com/i/status/1014260549675253760

 :D


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: 4KSuited on July 04, 2018, 10:34:14 AM
Memories of England v Colombia:

First time I've seen ALL England's players singing (or miming) the anthem. Yeh it's a terrible dirge, and it's impossible to get passionate about. Rule Brittania would be better for passion, but defo politically (and now factually) incorrect.

Incred how the Colombians' plan A was to be wreckers. As others have said, amazing how none got sent off. The head-butt was a nailed on Red.
Harry Kane put in a truly world class performance. I'd be happy to have his babies.

Gareth (yes, I feel like he's a mate from the pub) Southgate is continuing to impress as England's best manager since Venables. Quite remarkable that he's instilled all his beliefs in a team of highly paid individuals who must have entered the training camp with that burden of 50+ years of hurt and the crippling psychological fear of penalty shootouts to overcome.

Oh, and the curse of ITV has been snubbed. For now.

Come on England. Now for the Swedes.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: cambridgealex on July 04, 2018, 11:29:47 AM
I cannot believe Colombia are 3/1

Obviously want England to win and would have them slight favourites if James Rodriguez is out but there's not much in it really surely?

I read that England have gone off favourite for every single world cup finals match they have played since the 2002 world cup. Including Germany in 2010

As extra time has to be a possibility the 6/4 Colombia to qualify really appeals https://www.oddschecker.com/football/world-cup/colombia-v-england/to-qualify

England are 1/2 in that market. I might even venture an exclamation mark at that price...

Someone else can give me the other view please....why England at 6/5 is the bet.



I know this is a gambling forum so naturally people gonna speculate on prices... but it amazes me how people think that worldwide markets and exchanges with tens of millions being bet on every match have got these prices so wrong. Colombia were awful in the groups, got lucky to beat Senegal, lost to Japan and beat a woeful Poland. And their best player is injured.

As with all WC matches, the prices were probably about right, with between 1 and 5% edge to the bookies.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: cambridgealex on July 04, 2018, 11:35:10 AM
Oh, and COME ON ENGLAND.

Had 3 week old baby in the beer garden with us, didn't bat an eye lid of course but I'll tell him about it when he's older. Top England memory lifetime, and probably 2nd best all-time football memory behind Istanbul. #itscominghome


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on July 04, 2018, 12:41:48 PM
I don't really like watching football with other people..son and nephew excluded so last night I sat watching on my own while my wife and a bunch of neighbours had a barbecue drinks and watched footie next door. I had to watch the post mortem and bbc highlights too so didn't even pop over after. Felt bad but had to be done.

Every summer on the nearest weekend to my son's birthday we have around 30 family and a few friends over. It's this Saturday ffs. Other than blaming my wife for not consulting my wall chart should I take any other action. Might fake a heart scare on friday and go for a late cancellation of invitations


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Woodsey on July 04, 2018, 01:23:32 PM
I don't really like watching football with other people..son and nephew excluded so last night I sat watching on my own while my wife and a bunch of neighbours had a barbecue drinks and watched footie next door. I had to watch the post mortem and bbc highlights too so didn't even pop over after. Felt bad but had to be done.

Every summer on the nearest weekend to my son's birthday we have around 30 family and a few friends over. It's this Saturday ffs. Other than blaming my wife for not consulting my wall chart should I take any other action. Might fake a heart scare on friday and go for a late cancellation of invitations

Pretty sure half the group will want the telly on in the background!

I had a nightmare last night was stuck in Belfast with a delayed flight till 7.30pm, saw the first 15 mins then jumped on the plane. Don’t know how I did it, but managed to get home without overhearing any chat about the score so could watch it as if live.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on July 04, 2018, 01:41:10 PM
I don't really like watching football with other people..son and nephew excluded so last night I sat watching on my own while my wife and a bunch of neighbours had a barbecue drinks and watched footie next door. I had to watch the post mortem and bbc highlights too so didn't even pop over after. Felt bad but had to be done.

Every summer on the nearest weekend to my son's birthday we have around 30 family and a few friends over. It's this Saturday ffs. Other than blaming my wife for not consulting my wall chart should I take any other action. Might fake a heart scare on friday and go for a late cancellation of invitations

Pretty sure half the group will want the telly on in the background!

I had a nightmare last night was stuck in Belfast with a delayed flight till 7.30pm, saw the first 15 mins then jumped on the plane. Don’t know how I did it, but managed to get home without overhearing any chat about the score so could watch it as if live.

These are things that make me cry..got home with 3 mins to spare yesterday after an hour extra in traffic cursing and weeping :)

The game will be on front and center and someone else can cook !


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: bunnydas8888 on July 04, 2018, 02:37:02 PM
I've got a wedding to go to on Saturday and I believe the service starts at 3  :'( :'( :'(

How many guys you reckon will be watching on their phones?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: bagel on July 04, 2018, 10:10:36 PM
somehow managed to fall asleep nearing end of extra time

despite efforts to wake me up i managed to miss the penalties

have been trawling you tube for too long, can not find unedited footage with commentary

would really appreciate it if anyone can be bothered to post a link


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: teddybloat on July 04, 2018, 10:20:51 PM
Try itv Player, they may have it on catch up


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on July 05, 2018, 10:45:23 AM
https://twitter.com/ScottRichardss/status/1014787507521810433

https://twitter.com/mrjakehumphrey/status/1014757617330262016


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: arbboy on July 05, 2018, 11:44:05 AM
Pickford 33/1 with hills for SPOTY? 


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Archer on July 05, 2018, 11:49:32 AM
https://twitter.com/ScottRichardss/status/1014787507521810433

https://twitter.com/mrjakehumphrey/status/1014757617330262016

I like the Putin one  :)

Time for the real thing from 1996:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/36258250


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on July 05, 2018, 11:58:51 AM
https://twitter.com/SummerRay/status/1014403366259175425 (https://twitter.com/SummerRay/status/1014403366259175425)


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on July 05, 2018, 12:35:30 PM

(http://i.imgur.com/cTRu4jF.jpg) (https://imgur.com/cTRu4jF)


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 05, 2018, 12:47:10 PM
https://twitter.com/i_padawan/status/1014782341733023747


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on July 05, 2018, 12:48:13 PM
John Terry watches football match.  Slow news day?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: celtic on July 05, 2018, 01:06:59 PM
John Terry watches football match.  Slow news day?

Think the real news is that he hasn't got the full England kit on.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on July 05, 2018, 01:09:33 PM
John Terry watches football match.  Slow news day?

To be fair, that's a pretty boss set up to have in his back garden.

Wonder who tipped the press off about it? (Tap that in lads).


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 05, 2018, 01:34:31 PM
jt or his agent would be a short price


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on July 05, 2018, 01:41:54 PM
jt or his agent would be a short price

Daily mail reporter is a tough gig.

https://www.instagram.com/johnterry.26/?hl=en (https://www.instagram.com/johnterry.26/?hl=en)




Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on July 05, 2018, 01:45:07 PM
jt or his agent would be a short price

Daily mail reporter is a tough gig.

https://www.instagram.com/johnterry.26/?hl=en (https://www.instagram.com/johnterry.26/?hl=en)


Sure I could do it.

https://www.instagram.com/toniterry26/?hl=en (https://www.instagram.com/toniterry26/?hl=en)

Blokes getting all the armchairs, WAGs in the cheap seats


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on July 05, 2018, 09:29:14 PM
Russia 2018: 'England have shown why we can win this World Cup'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44689721 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44689721)

Alan Shearer

====

Picking England's route to the semis - how can we be so arrogant?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44662690
 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44662690)
Also Alan Shearer


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Marky147 on July 06, 2018, 01:57:48 AM
Pleno's Instagram story was com when they played Colombia.

Top off, waving his shirt about, singing :D


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: ripple11 on July 06, 2018, 01:02:10 PM
jt or his agent would be a short price

Daily mail reporter is a tough gig.

https://www.instagram.com/johnterry.26/?hl=en (https://www.instagram.com/johnterry.26/?hl=en)


Sure I could do it.

https://www.instagram.com/toniterry26/?hl=en (https://www.instagram.com/toniterry26/?hl=en)

Blokes getting all the armchairs, WAGs in the cheap seats

The private Island holiday is one for the lottery list......at a mere 30k a night

https://www.instagram.com/p/BkQTQ8lFA1x/?hl=en&taken-by=cocopriveprivateisland



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Cavey007 on July 06, 2018, 09:41:06 PM
Suarez and Neymar out on the same day, fans of honest footballers rejoice.

Was that the first game they've lost with Neymar playing? or first competitive game?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Woodsey on July 07, 2018, 08:23:09 PM
Great result.

Hearing reports about some serious dickhead behaviour and vandalism in Nottingham City Centre after the game, what is it about these chav twats trying to spoil it for everyone?  ;snoopy'sguns;

Wtf will happen if we lose one of the next 2 games if they kick off even when we win?

Hope the police are ready to go in hard.......twats.....  ;grr; ;nemesis;


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on July 08, 2018, 09:42:07 AM
It's just so ridic.

Wait until we lose the final next weekend, which is the most likely outcome. The emergency services will be dreading it.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lA1f02FVS8

Looking through online comments, folk either seem to find this hilarious or utterly pathetic.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: hhyftrftdr on July 08, 2018, 09:52:04 AM
It's just so ridic.

Wait until we lose the final next weekend, which is the most likely outcome. The emergency services will be dreading it.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lA1f02FVS8

Looking through online comments, folk either seem to find this hilarious or utterly pathetic.

Put me in the latter camp, please.

Much prefer to watch the games at home these days, and not be surrounded by these bellends.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on July 08, 2018, 10:06:39 AM
It's just so ridic.

Wait until we lose the final next weekend, which is the most likely outcome. The emergency services will be dreading it.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lA1f02FVS8

Looking through online comments, folk either seem to find this hilarious or utterly pathetic.

You gotta be kidding me?

Utter idiots.

How can anyone justify grown-ups behaving like 3 year olds?



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: teddybloat on July 08, 2018, 10:10:18 AM
misrable gits.

a heinous crime being in good spirits and jumping on a bed. i've heard rumours some of them even went as far as a mock pillow fight.

crazy hooligans.

people having fun when drunk. ye gads.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on July 08, 2018, 10:13:37 AM
There you go. Nice balance already. This is like black'n'gold v blue'n'white all over again.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Woodsey on July 08, 2018, 10:19:50 AM
It's just so ridic.

Wait until we lose the final next weekend, which is the most likely outcome. The emergency services will be dreading it.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lA1f02FVS8

Looking through online comments, folk either seem to find this hilarious or utterly pathetic.

Dickheads end of. Unfortunately the game is littered with twats like these which is one of the reasons I’ve never really got into club football.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Woodsey on July 08, 2018, 10:25:16 AM
Thought about going into town to watch the game yesterday, soooooo glad I didn’t  ;grr; ;snoopy'sguns;

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/police-make-number-arrests-after-1760517


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on July 08, 2018, 10:33:43 AM
Just extraordinary.

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/two-men-filmed-jumping-nottingham-1760382

Wednesday I'm in! Ten pints of stella, trash the Goran Ivanisovic section of the Wimbledon museum, then jump on a car and crowd surf while neanderthals sing the six words of 'It's coming home' they know. Makes ya proud.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on July 08, 2018, 10:45:27 AM
Had a fun one in Leicester City centre last night, returning home from the family

Off the train onto the concourse, group of lads pissed up

One says to me as i walk past

"Is it coming home?"

I reply "Well I hope so"

"Of course its fucking coming home, Lads he's not sure if its coming home"

at which point six of them surround me and "sing" "It's coming home" at full pelt.

I mumbled something and slunk off

It was a great song, it made Euro 1996, but has been bastardised as a sort of anthem to the pissed up and those who struggle for brain cell count.

also, put me down as someone who doesn't understand why you would watch games in a crowd of hundred where every time we score you get covered in beer. Quite like watching the scenes on my tv though

Bah humbug ;-)



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: BigAdz on July 08, 2018, 10:46:41 AM
Just extraordinary.

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/two-men-filmed-jumping-nottingham-1760382

Wednesday I'm in! Ten pints of stella, trash the Goran Ivanisovic section of the Wimbledon museum, then jump on a car and crowd surf while neanderthals sing the six words of 'It's coming home' they know. Makes ya proud.

I keep being told its a minority. These videos suggest, that's not quite the case.

Never felt so proud.......not.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: MANTIS01 on July 08, 2018, 10:48:45 AM
Remember when England beat Cameroon in 1990.

I somehow found myself leading a rowdy drunken conga of hundreds through Birmingham city centre. Just kept growing and growing.

One of my proudest moments.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on July 08, 2018, 10:51:58 AM
Had a fun one in Leicester City centre last night, returning home from the family

Off the train onto the concourse, group of lads pissed up

One says to me as i walk past

"Is it coming home?"

I reply "Well I hope so"

"Of course its fucking coming home, Lads he's not sure if its coming home"

at which point six of them surround me and "sing" "It's coming home" at full pelt.

I mumbled something and slunk off

It was a great song, it made Euro 1996, but has been bastardised as a sort of anthem to the pissed up and those who struggle for brain cell count.

also, put me down as someone who doesn't understand why you would watch games in a crowd of hundred where every time we score you get covered in beer. Quite like watching the scenes on my tv though

Bah humbug ;-)


:) Absolute scenes! As Jon Champion might say.

I went to pick up a parcel from a neighbour after the game. Wandering back, another neighbour's other half grabbed me to talk 'football'.

He said "It's coming home". I half-chuckled thinking he was messing around. He glared at me like I should say it back. Scary. He then called me a pessimist for saying we'd be firm underdogs whoever we meet in the final. The whole country's gone nuts.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on July 08, 2018, 10:52:52 AM
and this is right too

ABE is so tiresome! all over facebook, thankfully not on here.we are above it! I remember cheering on Scotland in 74 and 78 when we did not qualify. Archie Gemmill, Alan Rough, the Willie Johnston episode, then David Narey in 1982. Classic stuff

If Scotland were in the semi finals, who doubts that England fans would cheer for us? Stephen Daisley on the pettiness of the anyone-but-England brigade.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/07/why-proud-scots-should-now-support-england/ …


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Woodsey on July 08, 2018, 10:56:18 AM
A funnier moment from yesterday.......

Went for a walk after the game and there was a group of people in a garden singing ‘it’s coming home’ to everyone who walked past. They did to a middle aged lady who replied ‘You can shove that fking song up your arse because I’m Scottish!’  rotflmfao


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: teddybloat on July 08, 2018, 10:59:29 AM
there's a difference between smashing up a taxi whilst singing atomic kitten songs and bouncing on a bed. most 'scenes' have been of the pillow fight flavour.

everyone's so keen to be old and misereable. imagine being young and throwing beer in the air lol. or having a pillow fight. or intimidating people by singing a song written by baddiel and skinner at them... at full pelt no less.

fck me.

man up guys.



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Woodsey on July 08, 2018, 10:59:47 AM
If Scotland were in the semi finals, who doubts that England fans would cheer for us?

Would have done when I was younger but wouldn’t now, just tired of all their BS tbh.....


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on July 08, 2018, 11:01:50 AM
there's a difference between smashing up a taxi whilst singing atomic kitten songs and bouncing on a bed. most 'scenes' have been of the pillow fight flavour.

everyone's so keen to be old and misereable. imagine being young and throwing beer in the air lol. or having a pillow fight. or intimidating people by singing a song written by baddiel and skinner at them... at full pelt no less.

fck me.

man up guys.



lol i wasn't intimidated

just wondered about the nature of large swathes of the population blindly adopting the song as an anthem again.

There is slightly unnerving (to me) over-use of it


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: MANTIS01 on July 08, 2018, 11:04:14 AM
Rebellious, destructive behaviour? What about those mindless hooligans who run through wheat fields destroying valuable crops?   


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: teddybloat on July 08, 2018, 11:09:09 AM
get on board the atomic kitten train then.

https://twitter.com/MichaelBrown912/status/1015628441876656128

just wait till the hooligans start wearing waistcoats. Burberry waitcoats. singing atomic kitten


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on July 08, 2018, 11:26:02 AM
there's a difference between smashing up a taxi whilst singing atomic kitten songs and bouncing on a bed. most 'scenes' have been of the pillow fight flavour.

everyone's so keen to be old and misereable. imagine being young and throwing beer in the air lol. or having a pillow fight. or intimidating people by singing a song written by baddiel and skinner at them... at full pelt no less.

fck me.

man up guys.


Used to have pillow fights when I was eight.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: teddybloat on July 08, 2018, 11:39:50 AM
and to think we say the kids of today are mindless thugs

imagine acting like a rowdy football hooligan aged eight.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on July 08, 2018, 12:59:45 PM


George Lineker‏ @GeorgeLineker 


Follow Follow @GeorgeLineker
       

I’d shag pickford





Verified account @GaryLineker 



Gary Lineker Retweeted George Lineker

Is he a keeper?




Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Archer on July 08, 2018, 01:09:58 PM

England fans in Benidorm:
https://twitter.com/TheAwayFansVids/status/1015925324712902656

England fans in Kent:
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/worldcup/world-cup-2018-mass-brawl-breaks-out-among-england-fans-at-kent-pub-a3878806.html




Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Archer on July 08, 2018, 01:13:25 PM
Well done England.

Best team won the match. I'm not sure how the ref didnt send of at least one Columbian player for their antics.  No place for that in the game imo,

Worldy of a save by Pickford just before Columbia equalised.  Deserves more praise.

England have a real chance here to get to the Final, though they rely far too much on Kane.  Rashford must start in place of Sterling, who has been anonymous in this World Cup.

Why most criticism of Raheem Sterling is stupid
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcHslKK0VMQ


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: teddybloat on July 08, 2018, 01:32:29 PM
Thought sterling was motm yesterday


England have precious few players who want the ball in he positions and under the scrutiny of markers that sterling demands the ball. He gets lots of touches in the opposition penalty area and creates all sorts of space and opportunity for forward passing.

He hasnt had a great world cup in terms of his own end product but what he's added to the team has been so valuable.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on July 08, 2018, 01:41:34 PM
Good piece that on Sterling.

Even so, he is an absolute jigsaw when he wears the England shirt.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 08, 2018, 01:49:43 PM
It is easy re Sterling

Look at Granquivst yesterday been one of the best defenders in the tournament, yesterday he was blowing out his arse after 20 minutes because of one man Sterling.

No reason he cant cause the same problems to Croatia must start and not a chance he doesnt


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on July 08, 2018, 02:05:51 PM
I just watched the game again because I couldn't focus on it fully yesterday.

Wanted to say that Sterling was probably our best player yesterday and see a few others have got there before me. Would have loved to see him get a goal


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: MANTIS01 on July 08, 2018, 02:12:25 PM
Yah Sterling was busy. But it's forwards with killer instinct that get the job done and aside Kane we don't have a finisher in the team. Sterling, Rashford, Welbeck. Vardy injured. Pls don't let Kane get injured.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: kukushkin88 on July 08, 2018, 02:25:35 PM

Looks like they’ve had 4 shots on target in the last ~5 hours they’ve played. They’ll certainly need to make them count from now.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on July 08, 2018, 02:28:15 PM

Looks like they’ve had 4 shots on target in the last ~5 hours they’ve played. They’ll certainly need to make them count from now.

Is it coming home though



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Ant040689 on July 08, 2018, 02:33:00 PM
It would be lovely for Sterling to score in both games and to take the World cup down, perhaps a winner in either. There would be a certain poetry to that, however unlikely.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: hhyftrftdr on July 08, 2018, 02:45:57 PM
It would be lovely for Sterling to score in both games and to take the World cup down, perhaps a winner in either. There would be a certain poetry to that, however unlikely.

Some of the muppets I have to suffer in my local, they give me the impression that if Sterling was to miss an easy chance in the final and we then lost (for example), they would almost be pleased as it further adds to their Sterling agenda. There is one dickhead in particular who really doesn't have a clue at how important Raheem is to this set up, and is quite happily adding up the games since Sterling last scored for England.

Alongside Pickford, he was comfortably our best player yesterday. The video Archer linked explains his role in the team well. You'd have to be a real football simpleton to think Rashford (or whoever) should be starting ahead of Sterling.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: kukushkin88 on July 08, 2018, 03:31:01 PM

Looks like they’ve had 4 shots on target in the last ~5 hours they’ve played. They’ll certainly need to make them count from now.

Is it coming home though


I’d say they are probably as overrated by the market now as they have been at any stage, so I’ll go with no. Just an amazing stat for a team that is winning and scoring some goals though.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: RED-DOG on July 08, 2018, 04:34:01 PM
Fans having a bit more fun, bless em.


https://metro.co.uk/2018/07/07/england-fans-trample-london-ambulance-celebrations-turn-wild-7691618/


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on July 08, 2018, 04:54:07 PM

Looks like they’ve had 4 shots on target in the last ~5 hours they’ve played. They’ll certainly need to make them count from now.

Is it coming home though


I’d say they are probably as overrated by the market now as they have been at any stage, so I’ll go with no. Just an amazing stat for a team that is winning and scoring some goals though.

So amazing it isn't right.   Looks like 6 to me, but 5 hours includes the game where we played the seconds and maybe didn't try as hard as we could, and excludes the game we won 6-1 and the first game where we had 8.  Sure 5 hours is just a coincidence and wasn't just chosen to make a point.   

Just short of 3/1 with betfair looks about right for a team that is a significant favourite for the semi, and will likely be a similar dog in the final.   It might be a little short, but isn't wildly out.  I am not going to rush to take the 9/4 with Victor. It isn't like he'd lay me anyway.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: kukushkin88 on July 08, 2018, 05:08:11 PM

Looks like they’ve had 4 shots on target in the last ~5 hours they’ve played. They’ll certainly need to make them count from now.

Is it coming home though


I’d say they are probably as overrated by the market now as they have been at any stage, so I’ll go with no. Just an amazing stat for a team that is winning and scoring some goals though.

So amazing it isn't right.   Looks like 6 to me, but 5 hours includes the game where we played the seconds and maybe didn't try as hard as we could, and excludes the game we won 6-1 and the first game where we had 8.  Sure 5 hours is just a coincidence and wasn't just chosen to make a point.   

Just short of 3/1 with betfair looks about right for a team that is a significant favourite for the semi, and will likely be a similar dog in the final.   It might be a little short, but isn't wildly out.  I am not going to rush to take the 9/4 with Victor. It isn't like he'd lay me anyway.


2 against Sweden, 2 against Colombia and the 2 against Belgium were in the first 30 mins, so outside the stipulated timeframe. I think 4 is right and it’s like 4 hours 53 with one extra time and the all the injury time.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on July 08, 2018, 05:36:40 PM

Looks like they’ve had 4 shots on target in the last ~5 hours they’ve played. They’ll certainly need to make them count from now.

Is it coming home though


I’d say they are probably as overrated by the market now as they have been at any stage, so I’ll go with no. Just an amazing stat for a team that is winning and scoring some goals though.

So amazing it isn't right.   Looks like 6 to me, but 5 hours includes the game where we played the seconds and maybe didn't try as hard as we could, and excludes the game we won 6-1 and the first game where we had 8.  Sure 5 hours is just a coincidence and wasn't just chosen to make a point.   

Just short of 3/1 with betfair looks about right for a team that is a significant favourite for the semi, and will likely be a similar dog in the final.   It might be a little short, but isn't wildly out.  I am not going to rush to take the 9/4 with Victor. It isn't like he'd lay me anyway.


2 against Sweden, 2 against Colombia and the 2 against Belgium were in the first 30 mins, so outside the stipulated timeframe. I think 4 is right and it’s like 4 hours 53 with one extra time and the all the injury time.

It is an abuse of stats, as the duration has been especially chosen to favour a specious argument.  In the circumstances, the only thing amazing about it is that you have continue to argue about it after somebody has pointed it how flawed this kind of reasoning is.  So in the whole comp they likely had 20 odd shots on target, which doesn't feel amazingly low at all. 




Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Karabiner on July 08, 2018, 05:57:20 PM
Shamelessly nicked from Twitter:

Why do England have three lions on their shirt? I've been to England and they don't have any lions there.

They should have three arseholes on their shirt, there's plenty of them there.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: kukushkin88 on July 08, 2018, 06:03:30 PM

Looks like they’ve had 4 shots on target in the last ~5 hours they’ve played. They’ll certainly need to make them count from now.

Is it coming home though


I’d say they are probably as overrated by the market now as they have been at any stage, so I’ll go with no. Just an amazing stat for a team that is winning and scoring some goals though.

So amazing it isn't right.   Looks like 6 to me, but 5 hours includes the game where we played the seconds and maybe didn't try as hard as we could, and excludes the game we won 6-1 and the first game where we had 8.  Sure 5 hours is just a coincidence and wasn't just chosen to make a point.   

Just short of 3/1 with betfair looks about right for a team that is a significant favourite for the semi, and will likely be a similar dog in the final.   It might be a little short, but isn't wildly out.  I am not going to rush to take the 9/4 with Victor. It isn't like he'd lay me anyway.


2 against Sweden, 2 against Colombia and the 2 against Belgium were in the first 30 mins, so outside the stipulated timeframe. I think 4 is right and it’s like 4 hours 53 with one extra time and the all the injury time.

It is an abuse of stats, as the duration has been especially chosen to favour a specious argument.  In the circumstances, the only thing amazing about it is that you have continue to argue about it after somebody has pointed it how flawed this kind of reasoning is.  So in the whole comp they likely had 20 odd shots on target, which doesn't feel amazingly low at all. 


That seems like a crazy overreaction. I’m certainly not arguing though, it just seemed like a reasonable and potentially helpful thing to do to explain what I meant, the most recent ~5 hours seemed relevant. I agree it misrepresents the situation to some extent by going back to exactly the fifth last attempt on target.  My apologies if it pissed you off.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: BigAdz on July 08, 2018, 08:45:34 PM
I just watched the game again because I couldn't focus on it fully yesterday.

Wanted to say that Sterling was probably our best player yesterday and see a few others have got there before me. Would have loved to see him get a goal


I think we have all let out numerous groans when sterling has not taken advantage of great situations thus far, but in betting parlance, variance will take over very soon and he will click.

I will sure back him for anytime scorer next game, he is almost playing the number position and getting in all the best positions.

Kane seems to be burdened by the captains role and tracking back too often for my liking and raheem seems to be our last man most of the time.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on July 09, 2018, 09:17:26 AM


Jeff Kimber and 2 others liked


 Simon‏ @clashboy23 · Jul 7 


Sterling.
Pulled there defence apart, made space. Had a great game.
This is the reason Ex pro Southgate is in charge of the team and not Del from accounts who thinks he has a good knowledge of football because he watches 2 games on a Sunday and is 3rd in his dream team league.



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: kukushkin88 on July 09, 2018, 09:51:31 AM


Jeff Kimber and 2 others liked


 Simon‏ @clashboy23 · Jul 7 


Sterling.
Pulled there defence apart, made space. Had a great game.
This is the reason Ex pro Southgate is in charge of the team and not Del from accounts who thinks he has a good knowledge of football because he watches 2 games on a Sunday and is 3rd in his dream team league.



Morning, love this :-).


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on July 09, 2018, 10:26:40 AM

Looks like they’ve had 4 shots on target in the last ~5 hours they’ve played. They’ll certainly need to make them count from now.

Is it coming home though


I’d say they are probably as overrated by the market now as they have been at any stage, so I’ll go with no. Just an amazing stat for a team that is winning and scoring some goals though.

So amazing it isn't right.   Looks like 6 to me, but 5 hours includes the game where we played the seconds and maybe didn't try as hard as we could, and excludes the game we won 6-1 and the first game where we had 8.  Sure 5 hours is just a coincidence and wasn't just chosen to make a point.    

Just short of 3/1 with betfair looks about right for a team that is a significant favourite for the semi, and will likely be a similar dog in the final.   It might be a little short, but isn't wildly out.  I am not going to rush to take the 9/4 with Victor. It isn't like he'd lay me anyway.


2 against Sweden, 2 against Colombia and the 2 against Belgium were in the first 30 mins, so outside the stipulated timeframe. I think 4 is right and it’s like 4 hours 53 with one extra time and the all the injury time.

It is an abuse of stats, as the duration has been especially chosen to favour a specious argument.  In the circumstances, the only thing amazing about it is that you have continue to argue about it after somebody has pointed it how flawed this kind of reasoning is.  So in the whole comp they likely had 20 odd shots on target, which doesn't feel amazingly low at all.  


That seems like a crazy overreaction. I’m certainly not arguing though, it just seemed like a reasonable and potentially helpful thing to do to explain what I meant, the most recent ~5 hours seemed relevant. I agree it misrepresents the situation to some extent by going back to exactly the fifth last attempt on target.  My apologies if it pissed you off.

My job uses stats, so I guess the selective use of stats is somthing that stands out more to me than others.  I don't know who started spreading this stat, but its original purpose seems unlikely to have been to poduce something helpful, it looks way more likely to have been put together by someone wanting to mislead.
 
As I had a bit of spare time I ran the basic stats on the whole World Cup tournament.  I used that period as the matches were all serious (Maybe barring England Belgium), and are sufficiently current to be meaningful.  They weren't specifically chosen to put any team in a good or bad light.

Here are the basis attacking stats for the World Cup.  I am not claiming every stat, and it isn't every one people use in football models, this isn't Star Lizard, but it should give a basic picture of how attacking each team left in the World Cup.  They were chosen simply because they were easily accesible using google.  I am sure xG must be somewhere on the internet, I just didn't find it quickly enough.

Goals scored
Belgium 14
England 11
France 9
Croatia 9

Total Shots
Belgium 85
Croatia 77
England 68
France 55

Shots on target
Belgium 33
England 21
France 18
Croatia 18

Corners
Belgium 30
England 30
Croatia 26
France 15

Possession
Croatia 55.6
England 55.4
France 53.6
Belgium 52.8

The possesion stats are all very close and just based on an average of the possesion for each game.  I haven't adjusted for extra time or added up the minutes.  Hence it is entirely possible that these numbers are even closer, or that England are top.

Overall, England aren't having fewer shots and shots on target than anyone else, they are pretty average.  They look about the 2nd best team overall on these stats to me.  I think Belgium probably lead on stats, and France are surprising bad given they won 4-3 against Brazil.   That confirms my visual perception in that Belgium have looked the most impressive of the teams left to me.  Given I have done some legwork, I guess I'll probably back them against France.

If you just want an interesting stat, France have had 6 shots on target in the knockout phase, and scored 6 goals.  If you believed the law of averages was signifciant...

Just as a disclaimer, I haven't checked all this, so there could be mistakes.

FWIT The law of averages is bollocks too.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: kukushkin88 on July 09, 2018, 11:06:02 AM
Thanks Doobs, it’ll be a while until I get a chance to read it all properly but I appreciate your efforts and was going to suggest that we might discuss it further. The original stat such as it is, was all my own work :-), I went a little further and added weighting for time in front/time scores were level. I knew there was room for improvement.

I would say , I’m sure, that whilst I’m not in your league, I do have a well above average understanding of stats/probability. I worked as an Engineer in flood defence for a number of years, working very closely with the stats obsessed parts of that industry.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on July 09, 2018, 11:08:30 AM
Have tried not to think about a possible final but I think Belgium are a far more threatening side than France and France are prone to off days ( statistically proven). Still want little Belgium to beat their patronising neighbours though.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 09, 2018, 11:17:52 AM
wont happen but I would start Boyata rather than Kompany if I was Martinez

The side has enough leaders without him and he looked rusty again the other day and was very lucky not to concede the penalty





Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Archer on July 09, 2018, 05:04:30 PM

Looks like they’ve had 4 shots on target in the last ~5 hours they’ve played. They’ll certainly need to make them count from now.

Is it coming home though


I’d say they are probably as overrated by the market now as they have been at any stage, so I’ll go with no. Just an amazing stat for a team that is winning and scoring some goals though.

So amazing it isn't right.   Looks like 6 to me, but 5 hours includes the game where we played the seconds and maybe didn't try as hard as we could, and excludes the game we won 6-1 and the first game where we had 8.  Sure 5 hours is just a coincidence and wasn't just chosen to make a point.    

Just short of 3/1 with betfair looks about right for a team that is a significant favourite for the semi, and will likely be a similar dog in the final.   It might be a little short, but isn't wildly out.  I am not going to rush to take the 9/4 with Victor. It isn't like he'd lay me anyway.


2 against Sweden, 2 against Colombia and the 2 against Belgium were in the first 30 mins, so outside the stipulated timeframe. I think 4 is right and it’s like 4 hours 53 with one extra time and the all the injury time.

It is an abuse of stats, as the duration has been especially chosen to favour a specious argument.  In the circumstances, the only thing amazing about it is that you have continue to argue about it after somebody has pointed it how flawed this kind of reasoning is.  So in the whole comp they likely had 20 odd shots on target, which doesn't feel amazingly low at all.  


That seems like a crazy overreaction. I’m certainly not arguing though, it just seemed like a reasonable and potentially helpful thing to do to explain what I meant, the most recent ~5 hours seemed relevant. I agree it misrepresents the situation to some extent by going back to exactly the fifth last attempt on target.  My apologies if it pissed you off.

My job uses stats, so I guess the selective use of stats is somthing that stands out more to me than others.  I don't know who started spreading this stat, but its original purpose seems unlikely to have been to poduce something helpful, it looks way more likely to have been put together by someone wanting to mislead.
 
As I had a bit of spare time I ran the basic stats on the whole World Cup tournament.  I used that period as the matches were all serious (Maybe barring England Belgium), and are sufficiently current to be meaningful.  They weren't specifically chosen to put any team in a good or bad light.

Here are the basis attacking stats for the World Cup.  I am not claiming every stat, and it isn't every one people use in football models, this isn't Star Lizard, but it should give a basic picture of how attacking each team left in the World Cup.  They were chosen simply because they were easily accesible using google.  I am sure xG must be somewhere on the internet, I just didn't find it quickly enough.

Goals scored
Belgium 14
England 11
France 9
Croatia 9

Total Shots
Belgium 85
Croatia 77
England 68
France 55

Shots on target
Belgium 33
England 21
France 18
Croatia 18

Corners
Belgium 30
England 30
Croatia 26
France 15

Possession
Croatia 55.6
England 55.4
France 53.6
Belgium 52.8

The possesion stats are all very close and just based on an average of the possesion for each game.  I haven't adjusted for extra time or added up the minutes.  Hence it is entirely possible that these numbers are even closer, or that England are top.

Overall, England aren't having fewer shots and shots on target than anyone else, they are pretty average.  They look about the 2nd best team overall on these stats to me.  I think Belgium probably lead on stats, and France are surprising bad given they won 4-3 against Brazil.   That confirms my visual perception in that Belgium have looked the most impressive of the teams left to me.  Given I have done some legwork, I guess I'll probably back them against France.

If you just want an interesting stat, France have had 6 shots on target in the knockout phase, and scored 6 goals.  If you believed the law of averages was signifciant...

Just as a disclaimer, I haven't checked all this, so there could be mistakes.

FWIT The law of averages is bollocks too.



Group Stage xG over 3 games

England xG 7.6       xGA 3.6        xGD 4.0
Belgium xG 8.5       xGA 2.9        xGD  5.6
France  xG  3.7       xGA 1.8        xGD  1.9
Croatia xG  4.3        xGA 4.7        xGD  -0.4


Knock-out

England 2.34 - 0.62 Colombia
England 1.20 - 0.56 Sweden

Belgium 2.64 - 0.64 Japan
Belgium 0.54 - 2.87 Brazil

France 2.16 - 0.86 Argentina
France 1.01 - 0.46 Uruguay

Croatia 2.66 - 1.02 Denmark
Croatia 1.50 - 1.21 Russia

With the exception of Belgium v Brazil where Belgium fortunate in xG terms, all of the other 7 ties have been won by the team with the best xG.

England are doing just fine in xG terms but of course a tiny sample size, different minutes played, different quality opposition.........


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: kukushkin88 on July 09, 2018, 05:24:56 PM

Looks like they’ve had 4 shots on target in the last ~5 hours they’ve played. They’ll certainly need to make them count from now.

Is it coming home though


I’d say they are probably as overrated by the market now as they have been at any stage, so I’ll go with no. Just an amazing stat for a team that is winning and scoring some goals though.

So amazing it isn't right.   Looks like 6 to me, but 5 hours includes the game where we played the seconds and maybe didn't try as hard as we could, and excludes the game we won 6-1 and the first game where we had 8.  Sure 5 hours is just a coincidence and wasn't just chosen to make a point.    

Just short of 3/1 with betfair looks about right for a team that is a significant favourite for the semi, and will likely be a similar dog in the final.   It might be a little short, but isn't wildly out.  I am not going to rush to take the 9/4 with Victor. It isn't like he'd lay me anyway.


2 against Sweden, 2 against Colombia and the 2 against Belgium were in the first 30 mins, so outside the stipulated timeframe. I think 4 is right and it’s like 4 hours 53 with one extra time and the all the injury time.

It is an abuse of stats, as the duration has been especially chosen to favour a specious argument.  In the circumstances, the only thing amazing about it is that you have continue to argue about it after somebody has pointed it how flawed this kind of reasoning is.  So in the whole comp they likely had 20 odd shots on target, which doesn't feel amazingly low at all.  


That seems like a crazy overreaction. I’m certainly not arguing though, it just seemed like a reasonable and potentially helpful thing to do to explain what I meant, the most recent ~5 hours seemed relevant. I agree it misrepresents the situation to some extent by going back to exactly the fifth last attempt on target.  My apologies if it pissed you off.

My job uses stats, so I guess the selective use of stats is somthing that stands out more to me than others.  I don't know who started spreading this stat, but its original purpose seems unlikely to have been to poduce something helpful, it looks way more likely to have been put together by someone wanting to mislead.
 
As I had a bit of spare time I ran the basic stats on the whole World Cup tournament.  I used that period as the matches were all serious (Maybe barring England Belgium), and are sufficiently current to be meaningful.  They weren't specifically chosen to put any team in a good or bad light.

Here are the basis attacking stats for the World Cup.  I am not claiming every stat, and it isn't every one people use in football models, this isn't Star Lizard, but it should give a basic picture of how attacking each team left in the World Cup.  They were chosen simply because they were easily accesible using google.  I am sure xG must be somewhere on the internet, I just didn't find it quickly enough.

Goals scored
Belgium 14
England 11
France 9
Croatia 9

Total Shots
Belgium 85
Croatia 77
England 68
France 55

Shots on target
Belgium 33
England 21
France 18
Croatia 18

Corners
Belgium 30
England 30
Croatia 26
France 15

Possession
Croatia 55.6
England 55.4
France 53.6
Belgium 52.8

The possesion stats are all very close and just based on an average of the possesion for each game.  I haven't adjusted for extra time or added up the minutes.  Hence it is entirely possible that these numbers are even closer, or that England are top.

Overall, England aren't having fewer shots and shots on target than anyone else, they are pretty average.  They look about the 2nd best team overall on these stats to me.  I think Belgium probably lead on stats, and France are surprising bad given they won 4-3 against Brazil.   That confirms my visual perception in that Belgium have looked the most impressive of the teams left to me.  Given I have done some legwork, I guess I'll probably back them against France.

If you just want an interesting stat, France have had 6 shots on target in the knockout phase, and scored 6 goals.  If you believed the law of averages was signifciant...

Just as a disclaimer, I haven't checked all this, so there could be mistakes.

FWIT The law of averages is bollocks too.



Group Stage xG over 3 games

England xG 7.6       xGA 3.6        xGD 4.0
Belgium xG 8.5       xGA 2.9        xGD  5.6
France  xG  3.7       xGA 1.8        xGD  1.9
Croatia xG  4.3        xGA 4.7        xGD  -0.4


Knock-out

England 2.34 - 0.62 Colombia
England 1.20 - 0.56 Sweden

Belgium 2.64 - 0.64 Japan
Belgium 0.54 - 2.87 Brazil

France 2.16 - 0.86 Argentina
France 1.01 - 0.46 Uruguay

Croatia 2.66 - 1.02 Denmark
Croatia 1.50 - 1.21 Russia

With the exception of Belgium v Brazil where Belgium fortunate in xG terms, all of the other 7 ties have been won by the team with the best xG.

England are doing just fine in xG terms but of course a tiny sample size, different minutes played, different quality opposition.........

No doubt sample size is our biggest enemy here. I still think there is merit trying to apply a weighting for game situation; winning/losing/drawing and calibre of opposition. Probably meaningless on the sample as you say. It also occurs to me that in the knockout stages of a WC, we’re probably not learning a huge amount by analysing the same things we do in the English domestic leagues.

Thanks for your responses guys.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Archer on July 09, 2018, 06:03:38 PM
Have tried not to think about a possible final but I think Belgium are a far more threatening side than France and France are prone to off days ( statistically proven). Still want little Belgium to beat their patronising neighbours though.

Likewise I'll be rooting for Belgium and in the event England actually make  the final it will have the novelty of being a Premier League affair.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on July 11, 2018, 08:29:13 AM
 They're kind of a mix between a boa constrictor and a fire blanket. A team that always has enough, and much more, but always only does enough, and never more.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Archer on July 11, 2018, 08:56:29 AM
They're kind of a mix between a boa constrictor and a fire blanket. A team that always has enough, and much more, but always only does enough, and never more.

You have gone all Johnathan Liew :) But very apt...

France depressingly good in a game needing Belgium to score first.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on July 11, 2018, 09:17:45 AM

Looks like they’ve had 4 shots on target in the last ~5 hours they’ve played. They’ll certainly need to make them count from now.

Is it coming home though


I’d say they are probably as overrated by the market now as they have been at any stage, so I’ll go with no. Just an amazing stat for a team that is winning and scoring some goals though.

So amazing it isn't right.   Looks like 6 to me, but 5 hours includes the game where we played the seconds and maybe didn't try as hard as we could, and excludes the game we won 6-1 and the first game where we had 8.  Sure 5 hours is just a coincidence and wasn't just chosen to make a point.    

Just short of 3/1 with betfair looks about right for a team that is a significant favourite for the semi, and will likely be a similar dog in the final.   It might be a little short, but isn't wildly out.  I am not going to rush to take the 9/4 with Victor. It isn't like he'd lay me anyway.


2 against Sweden, 2 against Colombia and the 2 against Belgium were in the first 30 mins, so outside the stipulated timeframe. I think 4 is right and it’s like 4 hours 53 with one extra time and the all the injury time.

It is an abuse of stats, as the duration has been especially chosen to favour a specious argument.  In the circumstances, the only thing amazing about it is that you have continue to argue about it after somebody has pointed it how flawed this kind of reasoning is.  So in the whole comp they likely had 20 odd shots on target, which doesn't feel amazingly low at all.  


That seems like a crazy overreaction. I’m certainly not arguing though, it just seemed like a reasonable and potentially helpful thing to do to explain what I meant, the most recent ~5 hours seemed relevant. I agree it misrepresents the situation to some extent by going back to exactly the fifth last attempt on target.  My apologies if it pissed you off.

My job uses stats, so I guess the selective use of stats is somthing that stands out more to me than others.  I don't know who started spreading this stat, but its original purpose seems unlikely to have been to poduce something helpful, it looks way more likely to have been put together by someone wanting to mislead.
 
As I had a bit of spare time I ran the basic stats on the whole World Cup tournament.  I used that period as the matches were all serious (Maybe barring England Belgium), and are sufficiently current to be meaningful.  They weren't specifically chosen to put any team in a good or bad light.

Here are the basis attacking stats for the World Cup.  I am not claiming every stat, and it isn't every one people use in football models, this isn't Star Lizard, but it should give a basic picture of how attacking each team left in the World Cup.  They were chosen simply because they were easily accesible using google.  I am sure xG must be somewhere on the internet, I just didn't find it quickly enough.

Goals scored
Belgium 14
England 11
France 9
Croatia 9

Total Shots
Belgium 85
Croatia 77
England 68
France 55

Shots on target
Belgium 33
England 21
France 18
Croatia 18

Corners
Belgium 30
England 30
Croatia 26
France 15

Possession
Croatia 55.6
England 55.4
France 53.6
Belgium 52.8

The possesion stats are all very close and just based on an average of the possesion for each game.  I haven't adjusted for extra time or added up the minutes.  Hence it is entirely possible that these numbers are even closer, or that England are top.

Overall, England aren't having fewer shots and shots on target than anyone else, they are pretty average.  They look about the 2nd best team overall on these stats to me.  I think Belgium probably lead on stats, and France are surprising bad given they won 4-3 against Brazil.   That confirms my visual perception in that Belgium have looked the most impressive of the teams left to me.  Given I have done some legwork, I guess I'll probably back them against France.

If you just want an interesting stat, France have had 6 shots on target in the knockout phase, and scored 6 goals.  If you believed the law of averages was signifciant...

Just as a disclaimer, I haven't checked all this, so there could be mistakes.

FWIT The law of averages is bollocks too.



Group Stage xG over 3 games

England xG 7.6       xGA 3.6        xGD 4.0
Belgium xG 8.5       xGA 2.9        xGD  5.6
France  xG  3.7       xGA 1.8        xGD  1.9
Croatia xG  4.3        xGA 4.7        xGD  -0.4


Knock-out

England 2.34 - 0.62 Colombia
England 1.20 - 0.56 Sweden

Belgium 2.64 - 0.64 Japan
Belgium 0.54 - 2.87 Brazil

France 2.16 - 0.86 Argentina
France 1.01 - 0.46 Uruguay

Croatia 2.66 - 1.02 Denmark
Croatia 1.50 - 1.21 Russia

With the exception of Belgium v Brazil where Belgium fortunate in xG terms, all of the other 7 ties have been won by the team with the best xG.

England are doing just fine in xG terms but of course a tiny sample size, different minutes played, different quality opposition.........

Pardon my obvious ignorance, but these xG, xGA & xGD stats......

Surely the quality of the opposition is of crucial relevance?

If one team has several "soft" opponents (say, Tunisia, Panama, Colombia etc) would that not falsely improve those stats?

In EPL parlance, we'd expect, say, Man City to have better stats v, say, Stoke, then against, Spurs.

What am I missing?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: kukushkin88 on July 11, 2018, 11:07:07 AM

Looks like they’ve had 4 shots on target in the last ~5 hours they’ve played. They’ll certainly need to make them count from now.

Is it coming home though


I’d say they are probably as overrated by the market now as they have been at any stage, so I’ll go with no. Just an amazing stat for a team that is winning and scoring some goals though.

So amazing it isn't right.   Looks like 6 to me, but 5 hours includes the game where we played the seconds and maybe didn't try as hard as we could, and excludes the game we won 6-1 and the first game where we had 8.  Sure 5 hours is just a coincidence and wasn't just chosen to make a point.    

Just short of 3/1 with betfair looks about right for a team that is a significant favourite for the semi, and will likely be a similar dog in the final.   It might be a little short, but isn't wildly out.  I am not going to rush to take the 9/4 with Victor. It isn't like he'd lay me anyway.


2 against Sweden, 2 against Colombia and the 2 against Belgium were in the first 30 mins, so outside the stipulated timeframe. I think 4 is right and it’s like 4 hours 53 with one extra time and the all the injury time.

It is an abuse of stats, as the duration has been especially chosen to favour a specious argument.  In the circumstances, the only thing amazing about it is that you have continue to argue about it after somebody has pointed it how flawed this kind of reasoning is.  So in the whole comp they likely had 20 odd shots on target, which doesn't feel amazingly low at all.  


That seems like a crazy overreaction. I’m certainly not arguing though, it just seemed like a reasonable and potentially helpful thing to do to explain what I meant, the most recent ~5 hours seemed relevant. I agree it misrepresents the situation to some extent by going back to exactly the fifth last attempt on target.  My apologies if it pissed you off.

My job uses stats, so I guess the selective use of stats is somthing that stands out more to me than others.  I don't know who started spreading this stat, but its original purpose seems unlikely to have been to poduce something helpful, it looks way more likely to have been put together by someone wanting to mislead.
 
As I had a bit of spare time I ran the basic stats on the whole World Cup tournament.  I used that period as the matches were all serious (Maybe barring England Belgium), and are sufficiently current to be meaningful.  They weren't specifically chosen to put any team in a good or bad light.

Here are the basis attacking stats for the World Cup.  I am not claiming every stat, and it isn't every one people use in football models, this isn't Star Lizard, but it should give a basic picture of how attacking each team left in the World Cup.  They were chosen simply because they were easily accesible using google.  I am sure xG must be somewhere on the internet, I just didn't find it quickly enough.

Goals scored
Belgium 14
England 11
France 9
Croatia 9

Total Shots
Belgium 85
Croatia 77
England 68
France 55

Shots on target
Belgium 33
England 21
France 18
Croatia 18

Corners
Belgium 30
England 30
Croatia 26
France 15

Possession
Croatia 55.6
England 55.4
France 53.6
Belgium 52.8

The possesion stats are all very close and just based on an average of the possesion for each game.  I haven't adjusted for extra time or added up the minutes.  Hence it is entirely possible that these numbers are even closer, or that England are top.

Overall, England aren't having fewer shots and shots on target than anyone else, they are pretty average.  They look about the 2nd best team overall on these stats to me.  I think Belgium probably lead on stats, and France are surprising bad given they won 4-3 against Brazil.   That confirms my visual perception in that Belgium have looked the most impressive of the teams left to me.  Given I have done some legwork, I guess I'll probably back them against France.

If you just want an interesting stat, France have had 6 shots on target in the knockout phase, and scored 6 goals.  If you believed the law of averages was signifciant...

Just as a disclaimer, I haven't checked all this, so there could be mistakes.

FWIT The law of averages is bollocks too.



Group Stage xG over 3 games

England xG 7.6       xGA 3.6        xGD 4.0
Belgium xG 8.5       xGA 2.9        xGD  5.6
France  xG  3.7       xGA 1.8        xGD  1.9
Croatia xG  4.3        xGA 4.7        xGD  -0.4


Knock-out

England 2.34 - 0.62 Colombia
England 1.20 - 0.56 Sweden

Belgium 2.64 - 0.64 Japan
Belgium 0.54 - 2.87 Brazil

France 2.16 - 0.86 Argentina
France 1.01 - 0.46 Uruguay

Croatia 2.66 - 1.02 Denmark
Croatia 1.50 - 1.21 Russia

With the exception of Belgium v Brazil where Belgium fortunate in xG terms, all of the other 7 ties have been won by the team with the best xG.

England are doing just fine in xG terms but of course a tiny sample size, different minutes played, different quality opposition.........

Pardon my obvious ignorance, but these xG, xGA & xGD stats......

Surely the quality of the opposition is of crucial relevance?

If one team has several "soft" opponents (say, Tunisia, Panama, Colombia etc) would that not falsely improve those stats?

In EPL parlance, we'd expect, say, Man City to have better stats v, say, Stoke, then against, Spurs.

What am I missing?


I’m still interested in this. I’m reluctant to say what I think, probably best we wait for Doobs.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on July 11, 2018, 11:22:47 AM
Don't worry about all that. We have 3 lions and we will give Croatia a Helluva beating


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on July 11, 2018, 11:42:48 AM

Looks like they’ve had 4 shots on target in the last ~5 hours they’ve played. They’ll certainly need to make them count from now.

Is it coming home though


I’d say they are probably as overrated by the market now as they have been at any stage, so I’ll go with no. Just an amazing stat for a team that is winning and scoring some goals though.

So amazing it isn't right.   Looks like 6 to me, but 5 hours includes the game where we played the seconds and maybe didn't try as hard as we could, and excludes the game we won 6-1 and the first game where we had 8.  Sure 5 hours is just a coincidence and wasn't just chosen to make a point.    

Just short of 3/1 with betfair looks about right for a team that is a significant favourite for the semi, and will likely be a similar dog in the final.   It might be a little short, but isn't wildly out.  I am not going to rush to take the 9/4 with Victor. It isn't like he'd lay me anyway.


2 against Sweden, 2 against Colombia and the 2 against Belgium were in the first 30 mins, so outside the stipulated timeframe. I think 4 is right and it’s like 4 hours 53 with one extra time and the all the injury time.

It is an abuse of stats, as the duration has been especially chosen to favour a specious argument.  In the circumstances, the only thing amazing about it is that you have continue to argue about it after somebody has pointed it how flawed this kind of reasoning is.  So in the whole comp they likely had 20 odd shots on target, which doesn't feel amazingly low at all.  


That seems like a crazy overreaction. I’m certainly not arguing though, it just seemed like a reasonable and potentially helpful thing to do to explain what I meant, the most recent ~5 hours seemed relevant. I agree it misrepresents the situation to some extent by going back to exactly the fifth last attempt on target.  My apologies if it pissed you off.

My job uses stats, so I guess the selective use of stats is somthing that stands out more to me than others.  I don't know who started spreading this stat, but its original purpose seems unlikely to have been to poduce something helpful, it looks way more likely to have been put together by someone wanting to mislead.
 
As I had a bit of spare time I ran the basic stats on the whole World Cup tournament.  I used that period as the matches were all serious (Maybe barring England Belgium), and are sufficiently current to be meaningful.  They weren't specifically chosen to put any team in a good or bad light.

Here are the basis attacking stats for the World Cup.  I am not claiming every stat, and it isn't every one people use in football models, this isn't Star Lizard, but it should give a basic picture of how attacking each team left in the World Cup.  They were chosen simply because they were easily accesible using google.  I am sure xG must be somewhere on the internet, I just didn't find it quickly enough.

Goals scored
Belgium 14
England 11
France 9
Croatia 9

Total Shots
Belgium 85
Croatia 77
England 68
France 55

Shots on target
Belgium 33
England 21
France 18
Croatia 18

Corners
Belgium 30
England 30
Croatia 26
France 15

Possession
Croatia 55.6
England 55.4
France 53.6
Belgium 52.8

The possesion stats are all very close and just based on an average of the possesion for each game.  I haven't adjusted for extra time or added up the minutes.  Hence it is entirely possible that these numbers are even closer, or that England are top.

Overall, England aren't having fewer shots and shots on target than anyone else, they are pretty average.  They look about the 2nd best team overall on these stats to me.  I think Belgium probably lead on stats, and France are surprising bad given they won 4-3 against Brazil.   That confirms my visual perception in that Belgium have looked the most impressive of the teams left to me.  Given I have done some legwork, I guess I'll probably back them against France.

If you just want an interesting stat, France have had 6 shots on target in the knockout phase, and scored 6 goals.  If you believed the law of averages was signifciant...

Just as a disclaimer, I haven't checked all this, so there could be mistakes.

FWIT The law of averages is bollocks too.



Group Stage xG over 3 games

England xG 7.6       xGA 3.6        xGD 4.0
Belgium xG 8.5       xGA 2.9        xGD  5.6
France  xG  3.7       xGA 1.8        xGD  1.9
Croatia xG  4.3        xGA 4.7        xGD  -0.4


Knock-out

England 2.34 - 0.62 Colombia
England 1.20 - 0.56 Sweden

Belgium 2.64 - 0.64 Japan
Belgium 0.54 - 2.87 Brazil

France 2.16 - 0.86 Argentina
France 1.01 - 0.46 Uruguay

Croatia 2.66 - 1.02 Denmark
Croatia 1.50 - 1.21 Russia

With the exception of Belgium v Brazil where Belgium fortunate in xG terms, all of the other 7 ties have been won by the team with the best xG.

England are doing just fine in xG terms but of course a tiny sample size, different minutes played, different quality opposition.........

Pardon my obvious ignorance, but these xG, xGA & xGD stats......

Surely the quality of the opposition is of crucial relevance?

If one team has several "soft" opponents (say, Tunisia, Panama, Colombia etc) would that not falsely improve those stats?

In EPL parlance, we'd expect, say, Man City to have better stats v, say, Stoke, then against, Spurs.

What am I missing?


xG takes into account the quality of the chance to score.  So a Harry Kane penalty will get a higher xG (say 0.9) than a Harry Kane shot from 40 yards out at a bad angle (say 0.05).  These numbers are added up to say how many goals that team would have scored on average in that game.  So if Engald had 3 shots in the game that composed two Harry Kane penalties and one  Harry Kane shot from 40 yards out at a bad angle that would give them an xG of 1.85.   That would be the same xG even if both Harry Kane penalties were saved.  It basically gives an indication if a team has had a lucky win.  xGA is expected goals against.  sGD is the expected goal difference.

You could adjust for quality of opposition etc, but it is secondary here.  Who is to say which is the better side of Colombia, Argentina and Uruguay?  Before we played Colombia, some were saying the game was 50/50, to describe them as "soft" opponents seems a stretch.  Argentina waited to the last game until they qualified etc.  Tunisia were as strong as any African side, and at a similar level to Australia.  Panama was the golden draw, but Belgium were tougher than either Peru or Denmark in the group ganes.  We had an easier draw than France overall, but a lot of it is swings and roundabouts.   Adjusting for quality would be both time consuming and a bit arbitrary.  Everyone reading this knows the France draw was a bit tougher and can add whatever adjustment to the raw data they choose.  
  
France are starting favourites against whoever they play in the final and rightfully so, but I think the stats show that they haven't been massively dominant in this comp so far.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: RED-DOG on July 11, 2018, 10:09:44 PM
Meh


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: BigAdz on July 11, 2018, 10:35:26 PM
Stats..........lol.

We were the best team ,and our youth and inexperience at that level told.

I am sick of hearing how good Southgate is, because nothing in his past has suggested he is that good. He made some brave squad decisions, his first choice 11 was fine, but he couldn't adjust. In the end, I sure dont see why atomic kitten songs make him a hero. I sight him for an exit we should never have been forced down.

The further this tourney has progressed the further back our talisman, Kane has played. Southgate should be making him play the number 9. This was our problem in the last euros when he ended up taken corners etc. It's not what he does best. Southgate should have told him this and stood firm.

Lotus cheek. Looked loaded first two games yet hasn't had a look in while we bring on a slow looking vardy at every opportunity and Linguard just looked small all the time.

For all that, I am so proud of all we did. No one expected to go this far, but to my eyes this was a wasted chance, and at my age there won't be many more this obvious.

Wp England .



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on July 11, 2018, 10:46:53 PM


Wp England .



+1



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on July 11, 2018, 10:48:51 PM
Achieved about what they were entitled to but it was a fun ride for sure.

Can't go wrong with 1-2 France with Scuy. Only getting shorter as the game approaches.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: BigAdz on July 11, 2018, 10:59:56 PM
Achieved about what they were entitled to but it was a fun ride for sure.

Can't go wrong with 1-2 France with Scuy. Only getting shorter as the game approaches.

Won't need 90 mins either.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: nirvana on July 11, 2018, 11:16:12 PM
Great effort by England

Was muttering at around 50 mins that Kane and Young should come off for Rose and Rashford. Not because they were bad particularly but we could have done with Rose trying to push them back on the left and Kane looked a bit sluggish. Also perhaps Loftus cheek for Lingard or Alli to try and find a few more incisive passes - minor stuff compared with the achievements of super Gareth and his boys and I guess he knows better than me how to manage a football team :-)


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: hhyftrftdr on July 11, 2018, 11:20:58 PM
Gave it a decent go but it always kinda felt that we'd be turfed out as soon as we played a really good team. Croatia deserved it in the end.

Think taking Sterling off was a mistake. He wasn't in the game as much in the 2nd half but just his presence causes problems. I'm sure the Croatian defenders were pleased when his number came up. Rashford doesn't posses the same footballing brain and doesn't make the intelligent runs and movement that Raheem does. Kane wasn't offering much either so felt it was even more important to keep Sterling on to maintain a threat.

A game too far in the end, but been a fun journey to watch.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Bazzaboy on July 11, 2018, 11:22:46 PM
Feels like a huge opportunity missed. Not Southgate’s finest hour either. Huge anti-climax.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: teddybloat on July 11, 2018, 11:31:58 PM
Gave it a decent go but it always kinda felt that we'd be turfed out as soon as we played a really good team. Croatia deserved it in the end.

Think taking Sterling off was a mistake. He wasn't in the game as much in the 2nd half but just his presence causes problems. I'm sure the Croatian defenders were pleased when his number came up. Rashford doesn't posses the same footballing brain and doesn't make the intelligent runs and movement that Raheem does. Kane wasn't offering much either so felt it was even more important to keep Sterling on to maintain a threat.

A game too far in the end, but been a fun journey to watch.


been a huge advocate of sterling this world cup but he looked completely lackluster second half and didnt appear to have the energy to make runs anywhere near full pace before he got took off. felt it was needed. there was a moment where he just gave up on a run and he looked spent tbh.


anyways it's nice to see england being welcomed home and not being villified before they are off the plane


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: 4KSuited on July 12, 2018, 12:50:15 AM
The main thing that struck me when watching this England performance was the reversion to the long ball game. We got this far by playing the ball up from the goalkeeper through to the forward line... All of a sudden we want to win the ball in midfield and play the ball back for Pickford to launch the ball long for the Croatians to start another attack. I didn't feel confident at any stage of this game tonight.....

Maybe I missed something in the pre-match commentary, but I just couldn't see how this was ever going to be the winning game strategy....

Nonetheless, an England tournament performance that exceeded all expectations.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: arbboy on July 12, 2018, 01:41:45 AM
Kane golden boot.  England not winning.  Perfect for my personal business.  Please not hat trick for the manure belg in the meaningless game on Saturday.  Outside of business/wages it is very disappointing to lose to Croatia when we led 1-0.  We should have been the price we were to beat them and we didn't.  They were 40/1 pre event to win the world cup for a reason.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: bergeroo on July 12, 2018, 06:51:50 AM
my team of the tournament

---------------Lloris-------------
------Varane Maguire Godin------
Trippier----------------------Laxalt
------------Kante Modric-------------
------Hazard Lukaku Mbappe------


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Teacake on July 12, 2018, 07:23:00 AM
An average team who are very good at set pieces that made the most of a kind draw.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 12, 2018, 08:13:17 AM
Shame Kane was nobbled in the Columbia game pretty sure was by Sanchez . Don't blame them for still playing him even if known. Rashford just looks a poor man Sterling to me.

Great tournament for England and Southgate is the man to lead us forward with lots of good youngsters about. Worth remembering big Sam would have had Hart in sticks...

Oh come on mbappe one time e.t.c


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: rinswun on July 12, 2018, 08:28:00 AM
my team of the tournament

---------------Lloris-------------
------Varane Maguire Godin------
Trippier----------------------Laxalt
------------Kante Modric-------------
------Hazard Lukaku Mbappe------

Basically this except Lukaku. Classic Lukaku here, beat up on Panama and Tunisia but disappeared against good teams. Was anonymous against France.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on July 12, 2018, 09:30:00 AM
An average team who are very good at set pieces that made the most of a kind draw.

This. Basically an expensive-to-follow, less-disciplined international version of Burnley.

Are Croatia the worst team ever to make a WC final?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Teacake on July 12, 2018, 10:03:48 AM
my team of the tournament

---------------Lloris-------------
------Varane Maguire Godin------
Trippier----------------------Laxalt
------------Kante Modric-------------
------Hazard Lukaku Mbappe------

Basically this except Lukaku. Classic Lukaku here, beat up on Panama and Tunisia but disappeared against good teams. Was anonymous against France.

To be fair he was excellent against Brazil.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 12, 2018, 01:11:40 PM
Kane's two related chances which the offside flag may or may not have negated if scored #xG 1st shot ~0.47 & ~0.25 for 2nd. Likelihood he scores from 2 such related chances ~ 60%. Chance #ENG  qualify for the WC Final from 2-0 after 32 mins  #ENGCRO 92%. @InfoGolApp



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Archer on July 12, 2018, 02:11:53 PM
Kane's two related chances which the offside flag may or may not have negated if scored #xG 1st shot ~0.47 & ~0.25 for 2nd. Likelihood he scores from 2 such related chances ~ 60%. Chance #ENG  qualify for the WC Final from 2-0 after 32 mins  #ENGCRO 92%. @InfoGolApp


From infogolapp, at the end of regular time and if those attempts were included the xG   England 1.37 - 0.82 Croatia.

I would have taken that in a heartbeat before the game. Overall though obviously not good enough but a great blast anyway.

On Kane, only 6 attempts from open play in the 5 games he has played. Ranks him about 40th in the tournament and most  of those above him have played fewer minutes. In the PL he be looking at about 22 attempts from the same amount of game time.



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: RED-DOG on July 12, 2018, 02:54:02 PM
Dolazi kući, dolazi domaći nogomet koji dolazi kući


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: MANTIS01 on July 12, 2018, 09:53:51 PM
Amazing that I feel so negative about England, especially when compared to 1990 feeling such pride.

My memories of our performance would be...

Don't know who we beat that was a surprise or heroic.

Southgate good at interviews and staying calm. But seemed to have taken a squad of 11 players. Didn't use subs or rotation to any impact. Struggled to change anything from players to tactics in game. Liked the conducting the crowd moment.

Player highlights were slabhead, trippier and pickford (although think he has tourettes of the body in possession)

Henderson the crab, everything backwards/sideways (really think Jonjo Shelvey was needed against Colombia, but not part of Southgate's young guns)

Sorry but Kane overrated, tried so hard to love him. When it mattered on the world stage failed to deliver. Lineker/Shearer put those golden chances to bed.

Missing drive/creativity in midfield, huge void in central areas, how I miss Gazza. Dele did absolutely nothing and can't imagine why Loftus doesn't get more game time.

Lack of huge England fan attendance disappointing.

Expected trouble but overall the Russia world cup looked mint.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: bookiebasher on July 12, 2018, 11:07:50 PM
Amazing that I feel so negative about England, especially when compared to 1990 feeling such pride.

My memories of our performance would be...

Don't know who we beat that was a surprise or heroic.

Southgate good at interviews and staying calm. But seemed to have taken a squad of 11 players. Didn't use subs or rotation to any impact. Struggled to change anything from players to tactics in game. Liked the conducting the crowd moment.

Player highlights were slabhead, trippier and pickford (although think he has tourettes of the body in possession)

Henderson the crab, everything backwards/sideways (really think Jonjo Shelvey was needed against Colombia, but not part of Southgate's young guns)

Sorry but Kane overrated, tried so hard to love him. When it mattered on the world stage failed to deliver. Lineker/Shearer put those golden chances to bed.

Missing drive/creativity in midfield, huge void in central areas, how I miss Gazza. Dele did absolutely nothing and can't imagine why Loftus doesn't get more game time.

Lack of huge England fan attendance disappointing.

Expected trouble but overall the Russia world cup looked mint.


Agree with everything  except Shevey. Lallana would have been my pick but splitting hairs with that.

Not a patch on 1990 team , had all the luck in terms of the draw , never ever have better opportunity with
an average team . Walker never a centre half. A natural centre half like a Terry Bruce Butcher would have gone to the ball
To clear it rather than stand and wait like a Sunday morning amateur to head the ball away.

At top level you cannot play players out of position .


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on July 13, 2018, 12:21:48 AM
Slab'ead was definitely a highlight. And he's stuck with that name for good!


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on July 13, 2018, 12:27:48 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jul/10/england-excited-nervous-world-cup-semi-final-croatia-moscow (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jul/10/england-excited-nervous-world-cup-semi-final-croatia-moscow)

Nor did Southgate seem in the slightest bit uptight as he told a story, with more of that self‑deprecating humour, about what he makes of superstitions in football. “I’ll tell you a story about me and superstitions. When I was managing Middlesbrough we had a game at Reading and I was under a bit of pressure. I’d forgotten my socks so I went to the kit man and I borrowed a pair of black goalkeeping socks. When we won the staff made this big thing about my ‘lucky socks’, saying I had to wear them next game. I thought: ‘Hmm, shall I wear those socks? No, it’s ridiculous.’ Well, we lost the next game. Then, on the Tuesday, we were playing again and I thought: ‘Well, I’d better put the socks on’ and we won 2-0.”

Brilliant! So did he still wear these lucky socks? Southgate had not finished his story. “Then I went upstairs and got sacked. So really, from that moment, superstitions have rather gone out the window.” Classic Gareth.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: bergeroo on July 13, 2018, 12:53:44 AM
An average team who are very good at set pieces that made the most of a kind draw.

This. Basically an expensive-to-follow, less-disciplined international version of Burnley.

Are Croatia the worst team ever to make a WC final?

It hasn't been a high quality world cup so sure, why not. They made it!


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: bergeroo on July 13, 2018, 12:55:40 AM
my team of the tournament

---------------Lloris-------------
------Varane Maguire Godin------
Trippier----------------------Laxalt
------------Kante Modric-------------
------Hazard Lukaku Mbappe------

Basically this except Lukaku. Classic Lukaku here, beat up on Panama and Tunisia but disappeared against good teams. Was anonymous against France.

I don't really think there was a better striker? I liked Dyzuba because I'm a sucker for a big man up top though....


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: BigAdz on July 13, 2018, 03:34:21 PM
Bit of a watershed day for me tomorrow, regards Southgate.

As discussed earlier, he has hardly shown much in the way of optimal changes so far, and I am hoping that he does make some alterations to the starting line up.

Failure to do so will tell me he is a bit one dimensional in his thinking.

Here's hoping......


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on July 13, 2018, 06:49:15 PM
There was a discussion about backing England for the World Cup at 25/1 on TfT about 18 months ago and as far as I remember, the majority of people were dead against it.  Since then, England have swept away the dead wood, play a more modern style of football, given lots of young players a chance and gone out in the Semis of the World Cup.   There has been a lot of obvious improvements in that time, so I don't get some of the negativity.   Some players are going to underperform at times, some things aren't going to work out.  Surely we should just be optimistic and not making decisions based on Saturday's fairly meaningless game?

Come on Adz, lets look forward to the Euros and Sterling/Kane combo tearing the French old farts apart. ;)



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: BigAdz on July 13, 2018, 07:39:13 PM
There was a discussion about backing England for the World Cup at 25/1 on TfT about 18 months ago and as far as I remember, the majority of people were dead against it.  Since then, England have swept away the dead wood, play a more modern style of football, given lots of young players a chance and gone out in the Semis of the World Cup.   There has been a lot of obvious improvements in that time, so I don't get some of the negativity.   Some players are going to underperform at times, some things aren't going to work out.  Surely we should just be optimistic and not making decisions based on Saturday's fairly meaningless game?

Come on Adz, lets look forward to the Euros and Sterling/Kane combo tearing the French old farts apart. ;)



I'm fairly positive about the long term, but mainly because of the players we have in the squad.

My fear is that Southgate will work on the theory "keep the country happy, keep my job longer", and he may perceive that to be stoically picking the same team time after time, regardless. As I say a minor concern and always had my feet on the ground where our National Team is concerned.

Realistically I see Belgium and France both winning based on what I saw, but very happy to be proved wrong on both counts.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Sciss0rhands on July 14, 2018, 11:41:16 AM
Promising performance imo from a young team. I’m hoping for a goal feast vs Belgium.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 14, 2018, 03:36:17 PM
I do not see anything in Loftus Cheek that others obviously do

No work rate some nice easy passes lacks a killer one not for me.

Be interesting to see if he plays much under the new boss who does like to use younger players


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on July 14, 2018, 03:52:07 PM
I do not see anything in Loftus Cheek that others obviously do

No work rate some nice easy passes lacks a killer one not for me.

Be interesting to see if he plays much under the new boss who does like to use younger players

Do you think Sarri should be giving RLC and Mount a full season in behind Higuain (assuming the Morata swap happens), especially if Hazard goes to La Liga?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: dino1980 on July 14, 2018, 03:54:13 PM
Rich - do you think Drinkwater could play the Henderson role in Southgate’s current formation or does he need to play in a two?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on July 14, 2018, 04:12:47 PM
Rich - do you think Drinkwater could play the Henderson role in Southgate’s current formation or does he need to play in a two?

In a two. Not quite got the range to play the sole holding midfielder.

the old Leicester joke of course, we play three in midfield, Drinkwater and Kante either side. Funny, but had a ring of truth to it

I am not sure English football has the ideal single holding midfielder yet, or someone with the range of passing to connect back to front.

Henderson has to keep it simple (or else), Dier really a converted CB, Drinkwater no.

who might develop into a role to provide "range" is a key question


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: dino1980 on July 14, 2018, 04:28:31 PM
Chalobah highly rated by Southgate (and others) haven’t seen enough of him to know if he’s a pure holder or more though.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 14, 2018, 04:29:33 PM
Dier will come again

played a sublime pass in the first half and then that


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 14, 2018, 04:30:19 PM
I do not see anything in Loftus Cheek that others obviously do

No work rate some nice easy passes lacks a killer one not for me.

Be interesting to see if he plays much under the new boss who does like to use younger players

Do you think Sarri should be giving RLC and Mount a full season in behind Higuain (assuming the Morata swap happens), especially if Hazard goes to La Liga?

Doubt they get a full season, it is hard to equate what he did at Napoli (smallish squad) with what he will do at Chelsea


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on July 14, 2018, 04:31:00 PM
Chalobah highly rated by Southgate (and others) haven’t seen enough of him to know if he’s a pure holder or more though.

We have one at Leicester, Hamza Choudhury, just broke into first team end of last season and England U21s

early days, whether he develops into anything (and importantly gets sufficient game time to develop) we will see, but capable of holding, box to box and passing range


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: BigAdz on July 14, 2018, 04:47:18 PM
I do not see anything in Loftus Cheek that others obviously do

No work rate some nice easy passes lacks a killer one not for me.

Be interesting to see if he plays much under the new boss who does like to use younger players


Hoddle disagrees and thought he was our brightest spark.

Thought his work rate was fine, and almost created our best chance if Rashford hadnt have been at the beach.......


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: DungBeetle on July 14, 2018, 04:59:12 PM
Chalobah highly rated by Southgate (and others) haven’t seen enough of him to know if he’s a pure holder or more though.

I really hope he comes back the same from injury.  He was fantastic for 6 games at start of last season.  He played in a 2 with Doucoure mind.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Cf on July 14, 2018, 05:19:39 PM
Rich - do you think Drinkwater could play the Henderson role in Southgate’s current formation or does he need to play in a two?

In a two. Not quite got the range to play the sole holding midfielder.

the old Leicester joke of course, we play three in midfield, Drinkwater and Kante either side. Funny, but had a ring of truth to it

I am not sure English football has the ideal single holding midfielder yet, or someone with the range of passing to connect back to front.

Henderson has to keep it simple (or else), Dier really a converted CB, Drinkwater no.

who might develop into a role to provide "range" is a key question

Shelvey.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: TightEnd on July 14, 2018, 05:21:39 PM
Rich - do you think Drinkwater could play the Henderson role in Southgate’s current formation or does he need to play in a two?

In a two. Not quite got the range to play the sole holding midfielder.

the old Leicester joke of course, we play three in midfield, Drinkwater and Kante either side. Funny, but had a ring of truth to it

I am not sure English football has the ideal single holding midfielder yet, or someone with the range of passing to connect back to front.

Henderson has to keep it simple (or else), Dier really a converted CB, Drinkwater no.

who might develop into a role to provide "range" is a key question

Shelvey.

wrong un. team mates at Charlton hated him, Southgate wouldn't pick him as a squad player as worried about squad unity, it is said

too late for Wilshere, sold by Emery for "tactical and technical" reasons. says it all

has to be a younger generation, hopefully in tome for euro2020


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: dino1980 on July 14, 2018, 07:42:07 PM
Was also told by a good source that Wilshere left out partly due to being disliked within the squad.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: pleno1 on July 14, 2018, 07:48:41 PM
Rich - do you think Drinkwater could play the Henderson role in Southgate’s current formation or does he need to play in a two?

In a two. Not quite got the range to play the sole holding midfielder.

the old Leicester joke of course, we play three in midfield, Drinkwater and Kante either side. Funny, but had a ring of truth to it

I am not sure English football has the ideal single holding midfielder yet, or someone with the range of passing to connect back to front.

Henderson has to keep it simple (or else), Dier really a converted CB, Drinkwater no.

who might develop into a role to provide "range" is a key question

Said all tournament, Kieran Trippier, think he would be perfect.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Karabiner on July 14, 2018, 07:57:20 PM
Ainsley Maitland-Niles(Con).


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: RED-DOG on July 14, 2018, 08:38:08 PM
(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180714/zltgqaz4.jpg) (http://www.directupload.net)


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: DungBeetle on July 14, 2018, 11:00:01 PM
Rich - do you think Drinkwater could play the Henderson role in Southgate’s current formation or does he need to play in a two?

In a two. Not quite got the range to play the sole holding midfielder.

the old Leicester joke of course, we play three in midfield, Drinkwater and Kante either side. Funny, but had a ring of truth to it

I am not sure English football has the ideal single holding midfielder yet, or someone with the range of passing to connect back to front.

Henderson has to keep it simple (or else), Dier really a converted CB, Drinkwater no.

who might develop into a role to provide "range" is a key question

Said all tournament, Kieran Trippier, think he would be perfect.

A full back at centre back and now a full back in centre midfield?  Not sure this is the natural road to triumph.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: MANTIS01 on July 14, 2018, 11:34:32 PM
Got high hopes for Phil Foden at Citeh, looks dynamic & creative. Like that Harry Winks at Spurs as well. Don't know what Eric Dier brings to the party, seems to just amble around.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Sciss0rhands on July 15, 2018, 03:56:37 AM
Rich - do you think Drinkwater could play the Henderson role in Southgate’s current formation or does he need to play in a two?

In a two. Not quite got the range to play the sole holding midfielder.

the old Leicester joke of course, we play three in midfield, Drinkwater and Kante either side. Funny, but had a ring of truth to it

I am not sure English football has the ideal single holding midfielder yet, or someone with the range of passing to connect back to front.

Henderson has to keep it simple (or else), Dier really a converted CB, Drinkwater no.

who might develop into a role to provide "range" is a key question

Said all tournament, Kieran Trippier, think he would be perfect.

A full back at centre back and now a full back in centre midfield?  Not sure this is the natural road to triumph.

Too many of England’s best players are full backs, so Southgate just puts them everywhere lol


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on July 15, 2018, 09:44:45 AM
Wasn't Alf Ramsey's big thing to play the best player at each position in that position?

So much to be said for that appraoch. Too many managers want to Westley around with players these days. Doncaster fans will soon be finding that out too.

Kyle Walker was ultimately a flop playing on the right of a back three. Either him or KT need dropping.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: hhyftrftdr on July 15, 2018, 10:07:35 AM
Wasn't Alf Ramsey's big thing to play the best player at each position in that position?

So much to be said for that appraoch. Too many managers want to Westley around with players these days. Doncaster fans will soon be finding that out too.

Kyle Walker was ultimately a flop playing on the right of a back three. Either him or KT need dropping.

Don't tell that to Pep ;)


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: pleno1 on July 15, 2018, 01:55:16 PM
Callium Chambers is playing CDM for Arsenal it seems. Interestibg


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Cf on July 15, 2018, 03:59:53 PM
You have to think Lascelles makes his way into this squad sooner rather than later.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: MANTIS01 on July 15, 2018, 04:48:20 PM
How is it clear and obvious if you have to study it forever?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: RickBFA on July 15, 2018, 04:49:59 PM
Joke decision for that VAR penalty.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Chompy on July 15, 2018, 04:55:06 PM
Down to the ref rather than VAR though. How did this clown get the final?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: RickBFA on July 15, 2018, 05:00:08 PM
Down to the ref rather than VAR though. How did this clown get the final?

True. He should be nowhere near a World Cup Final.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: bookiebasher on July 15, 2018, 05:57:39 PM
How is it clear and obvious if you have to study it forever?

Exactly.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: cambridgealex on July 15, 2018, 07:09:56 PM
How is it clear and obvious if you have to study it forever?

This one didn't fall into the "clear and obvious" category, since it wasn't a decision he made and then reversed - he just didn't see it.

Then he gets told in his ear, take a look at this handball. He takes a look, yup I missed that, I think its deliberate therefore pen. It doesn't have to be clear or obvious for him to give it in this case. That's how I understand the rule anyway.

Whether that was the right decision is a different matter. He does move his hand and leg towards the ball and in an unnatural position, but it was so quick it's really hard to be sure it was deliberate.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: horseplayer on July 15, 2018, 07:11:05 PM
Never a pen in a million years

Yes it looks one on super slow slow mo but then again so would 95% of handballs


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Cf on July 15, 2018, 09:59:10 PM
Shows VAR for what it is in the biggest game going.

Joke of a situation and decision.

It needs retiring. Or at least going back to what the brief was of clear and obvious errors. If you’re getting the ref to go and review a screen then it’s obviously not clear and obvious. Especially when the ref spends a couple of minutes reviewing it.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: 4KSuited on July 15, 2018, 11:06:26 PM
I thought the body language of the Croatians told the story. They had a resigned look about them when the ref went to VAR, and barely a protest when the penalty was given.

Personally I thought it was the right decision; but then I really wanted France to win  ;scarymoment;


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: bunnydas8888 on July 15, 2018, 11:48:05 PM
When someone flashes a shot and there is a million people in the way,  ball goes out of play. Ref/lino give a goal kick straight away.

Replays show ball took a deflection and it should be a corner. Why doesn't VAR get involved then?


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on July 16, 2018, 07:10:16 AM

France were worthy winners, I thought. Great comeback from them after their meltdown in 2010.

Love their Manager, Didier Deschamps, who I vividly recall playing for Chelsea, but I can barely believe he is 49 years old.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Sciss0rhands on July 16, 2018, 08:14:21 AM

France were worthy winners, I thought. Great comeback from them after their meltdown in 2010.

Love their Manager, Didier Deschamps, who I vividly recall playing for Chelsea, but I can barely believe he is 49 years old.

Agree, they were the best and most consistent team. Mbappé was amazing all tournament, so crazy he’s still just 19


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Sciss0rhands on July 16, 2018, 08:20:27 AM
Down to the ref rather than VAR though. How did this clown get the final?

Exactly, the VAR is just a tool and is only as good as the person using it. There were many suspect VAR decisions throughout the tournament, just comes down to bad decisions made by the refs, the VAR is still fundamentally a useful tool.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: RED-DOG on July 16, 2018, 08:34:02 AM
I thought it was a deliberate hand ball and the ref got it spot on.



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: DungBeetle on July 16, 2018, 08:44:53 AM
When someone flashes a shot and there is a million people in the way,  ball goes out of play. Ref/lino give a goal kick straight away.

Replays show ball took a deflection and it should be a corner. Why doesn't VAR get involved then?

I think teams should get one VAR challenge a game and that's it.  You can use it for anything - corner, throw in, penalty - and If correct you keep it.  Would stop players being in refs face, be clearer to crowd when being used  and would remove ambiguity of when used.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Doobs on July 16, 2018, 08:53:55 AM
How is it clear and obvious if you have to study it forever?

This one didn't fall into the "clear and obvious" category, since it wasn't a decision he made and then reversed - he just didn't see it.

Then he gets told in his ear, take a look at this handball. He takes a look, yup I missed that, I think its deliberate therefore pen. It doesn't have to be clear or obvious for him to give it in this case. That's how I understand the rule anyway.

Whether that was the right decision is a different matter. He does move his hand and leg towards the ball and in an unnatural position, but it was so quick it's really hard to be sure it was deliberate.

On my understanding, you are correct.   There are two different criteria; clear and obvious errors and missed serious incidents.  If this was the latter, he only has to decide if he thinks it was a penalty.  I would have preferred it wasn't given, as I had Croatia in the sweep, but it seemed reasonable to give it.

I think Modric was a worthy winner of the golden ball too.



Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Ledders on July 16, 2018, 09:02:21 AM
Handballs seem to look terrible on replays in slow motion.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Cf on July 16, 2018, 10:12:12 AM
Note also it wasn’t used for the not free kick leading up to the first goal.

Yet had that goal been scored from open play they’d have disallowed it if there was a foul in the build up.

It’s a mess. I’d be feeling very hard done by if I was Croatian.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Karabiner on July 16, 2018, 11:41:45 AM
Explaining the pitch-invasion by four members of Pussy Riot during the world cup final:

https://www.newyorker.com/sporting-scene/replay/world-cup-2018-the-moral-clarity-of-pussy-riots-protest


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: tikay on July 16, 2018, 03:53:21 PM

Seen on Twitter;


Harry Kane wins World Cup Golden Boot, with Luka Modrić picking up the Golden Ball and Neymar taking home the Men’s 3m Springboard.


Title: Re: The world cup
Post by: Mcbain11 on July 16, 2018, 09:54:40 PM
It was an incredible pre world cup to try and line up who would take home the golden boot, betting purposes wise. I had gone with Lukaku myself based on what was a paper weight group. As it turned out, the same group yielded the win. Definitely the track to go down in years to come with top scorer bets imo.