blonde poker forum

Thoughts please.

£50k live comp with 4 players left. Short stack has 1.45 mil and has been short ( between 1m and 1.5m ) for half hour or so. Blinds are 100k 200k with 100k button ante. All have locked up £3,000 + £1,100 ticket. 3rd place is £4k, 2nd £6k, 1st £10K

Short stack shoves all in utg with his 1.45m
Button (10m ish stack) flat calls the 1.45m.
Small blind (12m ish) folds.
Big blind (8.5m ish) has 99.

What would you do if you were the BB?

Instant shove - though calling would be ok - that said there are a lot of better players than me on Blonde who I am sure will give the correct answer

Thanks Mikeymike for your reply. What would it be though, instant shove OR call. Can't do both.

I would real like some more opinions as well because it was interesting what happened next and caused some arguments on the table!

This isn't a fistpump instant shove at all imo.  I think its probably closer to a fold than a shove tbh given the stack sizes.  If you shove you are only ever getting looked up by a better hand that crushes you.  ak will probably fold as well with that many bigs.  You are just gifting the guy who has folded £k's icm wise if you get called by the flat caller when you shove.  It is a difficult decision.

Player dependent but probably a call, still left with 30bb if we miss the flop.

Idk how it's possible to respond without any information on the players. You ought to have pretty copious reads by this point. 

i would say Call is wayyyy better than shoving. for an FT I would assume that call and checking down would be possibly the best way to attempt to knock out the guy who is all in

shoving seems icm suicide though means that the initial caller can't with hardly any hands. that is assuming he knows what ICM even means, which in my experience of live MTTs they wont!

Call >>>> shove imo

Thanks for te feedback chaps. Anyway here's where it got interesting. Again thoughts please.

The BB shoves all in for his 8.5mill. Then the button get very irate. "What you doing there you idiot" (or something to that effect). He's not a happy chappy! He has QQ!!

So thoughts.... 1st, would you now call the allin with his QQs.
                      2nd would you have flat called the original utg all in in the first place or would you have played it different???

I'd snap call.
I'd play it the same as the button.

Yes. Hoping someone goes nuts with 66-JJ. If they have AA/KK, nh.

It is surely a definite shove from the BB. It isn't a big payjump 4th to third and he folds a lot and you get all the dead money in there. The QQ should of course snap call the shove.

So.... to recap, the bb shoves all in.
Decision is now on the button with QQ. He FOLDS.

The small stack turns over QJ dd. Flop is 77Q !! The small stack triples to 4.55mil.

So thoughts please.. has anyone played this particularly good or bad in your opinions??

The clue is in the question.

the result should be irrelevant to the question....shirley?

correct.  You are surely flatting with QQ to induce a light shove right from the guy last to act to give him over 2/1 his money and insta call when he shoves over the top of you.

Yes I would have thought that too. I think a shove with the 99s was rash ( call and check down if nobody's hits would have been my play). Its not just the £1000 jump, its surely the fact that by knocking a player out, your own chance of winning increases massively (ICM).
Folding the QQ was very tight. I think he thought only AA or KK would come over the top with the short stack all in. I still think you'd got to call thou.

 If your capable  of folding to a shove with QQ in that spot you might as well just shove straight off and takes any decisions away.

UTG  10/10
Button 7/10
BB 8.5/10

FWIW, if I'm button here I would only flat call if I intended to induce a shove from the blinds and so snapping the shove. If the plan is to potentially fold, which it seems it is, then I got to mark his play down.

If I'm BB, I think calling is better than shoving by a fair amount but can imagine a lot of players and situations where I would shove without any hesitation

How can you give the button 7/10, just because he didn't fold to the initial all in? Just because he wasn't smoking a fag and missed his hand?

Button 1/10!

We cant shove 99 and button probably cant call off QQ. Just because we make a mistake shoving 99 doesn't mean his fold is a mistake. Far from it.

Quite so, oftentimes I would fold to the UTG all in so he showed a lot of heart there tbf so that's a 5/10. Also someone said he was a good reg and was moaning and so one point for each of those gives 7/10 - FACT

That very concisely sums up how I was feeling - gave BB a slightly higher mark because, and perhaps it's flawed thinking due to my general weakness in playing poker, of the aggression - a bit like scoring a boxing match on points.

CAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWLLLLLLLLLL

Is the bottom of buttons calling range something like 66, 77, 88? A10, A9ss. KQss. etc. Facing a 7bb jam and assuming he calls his entire range. Is this range too loose?

My gut reaction was to jam 99 based on assumption of above ranges.