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I have thought for a long time that this forum could do with an international politics thread, separate to the UK and US ones. There have been so many things going on, from Syria to Catalonia, Myanmar, Korea, Zimbabwe, Phillipines, South Africa, Brazil, Cuba and many other places, which don’t fit into the existing threads. Populism, Nationalism and Nativism are in the ascendant and right-wing parties have been winning across Europe and elsewhere. There have been critical elections in several countries recently - Germany, France, Italy, Netherlands and Austria come to mind.

I guess a thread like this might have flurries of activity, interspersed with dormant periods - a bit like a war. To kick it off, a historic event that has just happened tonight:

(https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/editorial/2018/04/26/105163701-AP_18117027100136.530x298.jpg?v=1524790836)

Even if I can't contribute much I really enjoy these threads.

Looking forward to it.

^^^^

Same here, I read the Politics & POTY threads avidly, but don't know enough to add anything. Good stuff Mint, & all those who contribute.

 

I'll ask a question though, to help get things moving.

Why, all of a sudden, after all these years of sticking 2 fingers up to the rest of the world, are North Korea seemingly in conciliatory mode.

They attended the Olympics in South Korea, (widely suspected of having ulterior motives), met with the top cheese from South Korea yesterday, & are happy (?) to have a pow-wow with Mr Trump shortly.

What gives, why the change of tack?

As it happens, I'm pleased, it can never be a good thing to be so aggressive out of step with the rest of the world. I'm just curious as to "why now?" What changed?

Gotta love social media and the meltdowns people have on there

‘Thank you, President Trump. God bless you. Keep up the good work!’

Cue meltdown  rotflmfao

I'm assuming they just needed a single thing to agree on which would start the whole process going.

I'm assuming the single thing they agreed on was laughing at Trump.

I doubt that was the case, whilst I’m no fan of Trump what makes me laugh is people who can’t accept there is a single thing he might have done that is good....

It seems a bit of a mystery why things have changed, though we have seen many times before that things can be going on behind the scenes that are very different to the public statements, so this could have been going on for longer than we know. It is possible (though unlikely) that Trump’s tough talk scared them into talking. More likely is that their nuclear programme has given them confidence that they will be taken seriously and regarded as an equal participant. It is clear that Rex Tillerson and Mike Pompeo has been heavily involved.

But we’ve kind of been here before. There have been several meetings between the Kims and South Korean leaders. Madeleine Albright’s visit led to NK staying non-nuclear for years, until the Bush government violated the agreement. Other meetings have had some success, but haven’t changed the big picture.

(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2007/10/04/world/04cnd-korea2.600.jpg)

(https://cdn.britannica.com/700x450/16/93016-004-45CDBC28.jpg)

(http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2017/10/171010_WARSTORIES_Madeleine-Kim-Jung-Il.jpg.CROP.promovar-mediumlarge.jpg)

(https://www.nknews.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/KIS-JimmyCarter.jpg)

(http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2009/0908/360_clinton_kim_0804.jpg)


I stumbled across this article this morning. I didn’t know this, but it seems there was the possibility of a breakthrough with Kim Il Sung, but he died unexpectedly at the wrong time, and South Korea upset them by making it illegal to express condolences.

https://www.nknews.org/2014/07/reflections-on-missed-opportunities-of-kim-il-sungs-death/

I wasn't being entirely serious you know :D

But as MintTrav suggested it's probably got nothing to do with Trump either way.

From what I've read before there's been a trickle of talks going on most of the time. The most obvious outward signs of these have been when the Korea's have been represented in sports and those kinds of ideas go back about 30 years.

Having had a quick google it seems that the latest impetus is a new South Korean President in 2017; most of the breakthroughs in North/South cooperation seem to follow a pretty linear timeline from then.

Bollocks, Trump has definitely had some influence on ithe process, you can argue how much influence but he definitely has....anyone who disagrees with that is just someone who is in denial and can’t bring themselves to admit he has helped do something good.

If Obama was in this spot people would be saying what a breakthrough he had help make.

Hi Donald

getting a tad defensive for someone who "isnt a fan of Trump"

Nah I just think it’s quite funny that some people could never say a good word about him, they are so one eyed it’s hard to take them seriously to be honest.

Like I said above, Obama would be getting massive praise from those same people probably.

I'll say a good word about him, if he doesn't get Vegas blown up before summer ;D

I don't know enough about it to have a strong view but I agree with you. We don't know how much influence he has had or even if it was by design but it does seem to me that he's had a positive effect in this. Still an abysmal human o/c but credit where it's due.

Wtf? I can’t be having this, disagree ffs!!  rotflmfao

:D

Can just imagine Donald Trump saying this to Kim Jong-un.

I think it was Tillerson. Remember when Trump publicly reprimanded him and said he was wasting his time trying to negotiate with NK and should stop? That was only about six months ago. Then Pompeo went there secretly around Christmas. Trump has obviously gone along with it but I don’t think the breakthrough has happened because of his bombast - his favourable influence has probably been to stay out of the way and not obstruct what was happening.

Overall, I think Trump’s instincts are much less hawkish than his rhetoric suggests. He always told us he was non-interventionist and has largely been so this far. When he did sanction bombing recently in Syria, the action was very small and contained compared with what he threatened. Pompeo and (particularly) Bolton will push him towards more hawkish positions than Tillerson and Masterson, who were pushing in the opposite direction, so it is hard to predict how he will act in future.

Excellent Commons debate on Turkey currently live on BBC Parliament. Really clear discussion without any political game-playing. MPs from opposing parties working together. Worth catching on iPlayer later.