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The BBC is scrapping the free tv license for over 75s.

"The free TV licence was originally introduced to combat pensioner poverty, which has halved in the last 30 years to 15 percent.

"There is simply no reason why retired judges, lawyers, bankers and doctors should receive a free TV licence when younger generations are struggling financially."

“Scrapping the free licence could potentially push around 50,000 more pensioners below the poverty line,” says Caroline Abrahams, Age UK’s charity director. She adds that “just over 40 per cent of people aged 75+ in the UK won’t be able to afford a TV licence, or will have to cut back on essentials to pay for it”.

Why is there an expectation from the government that the BBC should foot the bill for this? 

@Tikay thoughts?

My understanding is that the government currently pays the license fee on behalf of the over 75’s

Bugger. I was looking forward to that.

Why is there an expectation that the government should pay for it?

Also - "...just over 40 per cent of people aged 75+ in the UK won’t be able to afford a TV licence..." coupled with the BBC figures that a third of them will still get a free licence suggests that the difficulty only applies to 7% of over 75s anyway.

But mainly it was a blatant bribe for votes that didn't work anyway, it's not like generations of people have had this perk that's being taken away.

It's been live since 2003 so plenty of people have had the freebie.

I think you only get it free if you claim the right pension credits which are one of the benefits that are most often not applied for when eligible. Perhaps they need to spend some money educating older people on claiming these.

2.2 million over 75's live alone in this country (over half of the total). Half of all over 75's are disabled or in poor health so are often housebound and isolated.

TV doesn't solve loneliness but it does often help offer some solace.

The rhetoric of these debates always catches my eye...

Old people will have “to cut back on essentials” to pay for tv license

How can an item be essential if you can voluntarily do without it?

Particularly when trading it for a non essential item.

Is it really like, “nope I’m not getting that toilet roll because season 4 of Antiques Road Trip is more important than a clean bottom??

There was a whole bunch of other stuff I could reply with, but this is probably the most important bit.

If an OAP will actually have to choose between a TV license and eating (for example) then not having the TV Licence isn't really the big issue here.

You can voluntarily do without education, health care, religion.

Many would argue that access to these is an essential human need/right.

There are many old people that go days/weeks/months without seeing or speaking to another human. That doesn't make a tv license essential obviously but you can see what I am getting at.

bread or Bread, porridge or Porridge, breakfast or Breakfast

The tough choices facing old folk

Loneliness in old age is a problem
Poverty in old age is a problem

Rather than tackling either of these I'm sure giving them free TV will do just as well.

As long as you are breathing everything else is optional. Be thankful you're born and stop sponging off the rest of us.

Some more background here:-

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/jun/10/seeds-of-bbc-licence-fee-decision-deftly-planted-by-george-osborne

If it does anything then hopefully it will encourage more people to go out and claim pension credits.

I would like to see a bit more background to this post. I can't grasp what it means or who it's aimed at in the contest of the current discussion.

Comments such as "How can an item be essential if you can voluntarily do without it?"

Similar to "they can't be that poor if they have a flat screen TV".

I would like to think we are a rich enough society that we have certain minimum levels of living but a lot of people wouldn't agree with that. Or at least there'd be disagreements as to what those levels are.

Oh. I thought you actually meant that long as someone is breathing everything else is optional and that they should be thankful they're born and stop sponging off the rest of us.

lol.

People always forget there isn't a bottomless pot of public money. In this instance we're asking the question whether tax payers should fund the inefficient BBC instead of other projects and causes? The debate meanders off into tangents of lonely poor old folk giving up "essential life-saving products" and food or telly questions. But wait. BBC can just have advert breaks and stop charging the poor old folk a fee to watch. Or stop paying presenters and execs a gazillion pounds per annum. Hey presto, go buy your liver & bacon grandad because a free episode of Eggheads is about to start. It really isn't a "society" question about "morality" or such shit.   

Fair comment.

Yea agree, why doesn't the BBC have adverts? I don't think the population would be very bothered would they?

They watch more telly than younger people. They should be grateful it's not been doubled!

The current system is basically that the people who don't watch the BBC pay the licence fee so that the people who do watch will get it for free :D

They do D-Day, I pay for their telly. Seems like a good deal to me

A 75 year old was born in 1944 - I don't think many of them did D Day

It began in 2000.

It's not 2000 anymore :|

It’s a bit of a surprise (maybe shouldn’t be) that the very old are next in the crosshairs. (I’m aware some of the comments are jokes/satire)

Does Blonde have a “heavy sarcasm” gif / symbol?

(So Red doesn’t have to get snippy 😉)

ps. btw how wrong I was about gov subsidy for the 75ers  ;hide;

Snippy? Moi?

Jon and I can do a bit of verbal fencing without falling out, Mantis likewise. (Although he really is a tosser sometimes)

PS- Note explicit lack of heavy sarcasm symbol.

About 8% of the population are over 75, about 2% are over 85 and you'd have to be over 90 for D Day to be relevant.

On a more analytical note, benefits should serve one of 3 purposes:

1. a reward - free TV licenses for D Day veterans and their partners would  be a great policy (although should have been implemented at least 25 years ago if it was done.)
2. an incentive - I don't think pensioners really need an incentive to watch the BBC
3. or necessity - the basic reason for benefits, because people are poor. This is what the BBC want to reform the system to.

The system as it is now is none of the above.

The cynical among us will reckon the BBC making this announcement during the Tory leadership campaign is no coincidence. Personally I think the licence fee is outdated , must be a better way to fund BBC?

This.

How?

Please don’t suggest advertising.

Why?

The common argument against is that we'll end up with TV like the US - but why should we end up with US level of advertising rather than Channel 4 level of advertising? (for example).

I've also accessed the BBC website in the US, where it contains advertising - it really wasn't that bad.

The alternative is a subscription based model - that would result in a lot smaller viewership and the channel would have to be cut back accordingly - a few years ago I would have argued strongly for the retention of government funding of the BBC because it was exceptional; but now it's pretty much just another major network. If it's going to act like a commercial broadcaster it probably should be treated as such.

Would it not be best for everyone involved to share the cost for pensioners? BBC 50%/Gov 50% or even split three ways between BBC/govt/pensioners?

I'm still not entirely clear exactly why all pensioners, no matter what, shouldn't have to pay for their own?

The original argument put forward was that it was to help against loneliness. It might be a bit harsh to exclude those who are still with their partners (even though this negates the argument for having them free) - but why should pensioners who can afford it not pay for their own licence?

In spots like this, it’s usually because means testing it costs more than the thing itself.

Of course, those who can afford it should pay for it. I always remember Alan Sugar moaning about this, he receives the winter fuel allowance!

But perhaps share the cost for those who can’t afford it. All whilst Boris is wanting to give a tax cut for the richest...

Okay - that makes sense.

I don't think there's a strong argument for any benefit to be universal at the moment.

Govt pensions will end up being means tested at some point in the future, probably no time soon but I’m convinced it will happen.....

I've had a good think about this and I've decided that pensioners who can afford to pay for their own stuff should do so. I think I just like the notion of being nice and showing old people respect.

When we were young we had to call everyone who was a generation older than we were aunt or uncle.

Nowadays, lots of people call me uncle but I don't have to do it so much. I still automatically address people in their 80's and beyond as aunt & uncle though.

I’m with you on this Red.

There is a much stronger argument that a lot of people just get put off by all the forms and paperwork, or just don't have the knowledge to understand they are owed benefits, or just don't want to be a burden.   Hence the basic state pension, and child benefit which are universal, or near universal, are pretty much claimed by all, but the pension credit misses lots of people who should be paid it.  It has always been that way with means testing, and was the same when I was much younger but with different benefits.

And of course a lot of this means testing costs a big chunk of the benefits paid, where as universal benefits are much cheaper to run, as kuku hints at.

I don't know what the solution is for TV licences, maybe just adjust the state pension and benefits, but it isn't easy because of the problems above.  It strikes me that you shouldn't be claiming stuff that you don't really need, or donating it away, but way too many people believe you should get whatever you can from the Government for that ever to work.

But if the logic is some people won't apply for pension credit so all pensioners should get a free TV licence
Doesn't exactly the same logic lead to the conclusion that all pensioners should just get the pension credit?
And housing benefit? And income support? And disability benefit?

Why is the TV licence the one that is randomly picked out?

Is it perhaps because it was only ever just a political fudge to try and buy votes without having to do anything which might constructively address the problem of pensioner poverty and loneliness in old age(?)



To increase the state pension to cover the cost of the licence fee would be an increase of just over 2%
So .... less than what it is going to be increased by anyway; and less than what it has been increased by for several years.

NB: my father in law tried to refuse child benefit but was told that he wasn't allowed to  :D - it's changed a bit since then but it does show there are people who have a problem with universal benefits that you can't opt out of.

Did you really think I meant increase the state pension by just the amount of the TV licence for this coming year?

I meant a one off adjustment, so that all pensioners get it and they can do what they like with it, whether it is a TV licence or green ink to use in their complaints to the Daily Mail about how their fathers thought in the war so they didn't have to pay the licence.  It means that the filthy rich like Jeremy Corbyn get an increase, but also those that need it get an increase to.  It doesn't have to be the full amount of the TV license, just something appropriate.  And by my suggestion, you can take it as read that I don't think it should have been done this way in the first place.  There really isn't a good reason I can think of that poor pensioners get this, and poor working people don't.

FWIW You can opt-out of child benefit now.  I have had an uneven work pattern over the years, but never once thought about claiming benefits, and my mum has always been terrible at taking them.

I refuse to pay for a TV licence.I detest the bbc and i tell them every time they
INVITE me to join the TV licence club......

In effect the BBC is already a subscription based service. It is funded by the licence fee plus any commercial income from selling programmes overseas. It doesn’t get government subsidies, other than the now discontinued, cost of free TV licences for the over 75s.

On the original point, this concession was first introduced in 1999 when the over 75s would all have lived through some of the toughest decades this country has ever faced. By all means phase out the scheme, maybe by saying that the only people who qualify were those born before 1930.
The post-war generations have enjoyed so many other advantages that dishing out free tv licences as a lifetime’s worth of 75th birthday present seems unnecessary.

My 76 year old mum sent me a fb post to share moaning about the license costs. She is fortunate, not rich in terms of savings or owning her own house but she gets in excess of a net £2k per month in pensions (my dad was a servicemen, 22 years +, war pensions, invalided out of the RAF). I respectfully declined to share it although I do feel bad she'll have to carry on paying the license fee as she has successfully managed to do for the last 10 years or so since she retired.

In effect a subscription service?  People write some odd things on the internet but this is right up there.

She must have had you at an extraordinarily young age.....

What part of this is odd?

Haha. Pretty young